BMR Front Suspension versus Speedtech Pro-Touring

[trapin]

To get coil-overs with the BMR Front suspension you have to modify the shock mount and do some cutting and welding. With the Speedtech Pro-Touring suspension you don't have to do any of that. So what's the advantage of the BMR stuff over Speedtech if there is any? DS&E is out of the question (too much $$$) and Ride-tech's boss doesn't like me, so it's between Speedtech and BMR. The BMR setup would actually be $300 cheaper than Speedtech but I don't know that I like the black hammertone finish. Anyone got pic of their setup? Thanks for any input you can give me.

[F-Body International]

MCB Matt has a Black Friday sale if you want to inquire about DSE pricing.

Global West is another option as they recently started selling coilover brackets for F-Body.

[killer69]

To get coil-overs with the BMR Front suspension you have to modify the shock mount and do some cutting and welding. With the Speedtech Pro-Touring suspension you don't have to do any of that. So what's the advantage of the BMR stuff over Speedtech if there is any? DS&E is out of the question (too much $$$) and Ride-tech's boss doesn't like me, so it's between Speedtech and BMR. The BMR setup would actually be $300 cheaper than Speedtech but I don't know that I like the black hammertone finish. Anyone got pic of their setup? Thanks for any input you can give me.

Not sure what you mean about the Black Hammer tone finish? our control arms are gloss Black and the sway bar is semi gloss black no hammer tone.
both our upper and lower control arms use Delrin bushings and include the mounting hardware.

[F-Body International]

Not sure what you mean about the Black Hammer tone finish? our control arms are gloss Black and the sway bar is semi gloss black no hammer tone.
both our upper and lower control arms use Delrin bushings and include the mounting hardware.

He’s referring to BMR

[BMR Sales]

To get coil-overs with the BMR Front suspension you have to modify the shock mount and do some cutting and welding. With the Speedtech Pro-Touring suspension you don't have to do any of that. So what's the advantage of the BMR stuff over Speedtech if there is any? DS&E is out of the question (too much $$$) and Ride-tech's boss doesn't like me, so it's between Speedtech and BMR. The BMR setup would actually be $300 cheaper than Speedtech but I don't know that I like the black hammertone finish. Anyone got pic of their setup? Thanks for any input you can give me.

there two different ways to attach a Coilover. We have the Coilover Conversion Kit that utilizes a Bearing Mount on the top. The other type would attach with a Stud at the top like a regular Shock and would have a conical Spring.

[trapin]

Not sure what you mean about the Black Hammer tone finish? our control arms are gloss Black and the sway bar is semi gloss black no hammer tone.
both our upper and lower control arms use Delrin bushings and include the mounting hardware.

Was referring to the BMR arms.

[trapin]

there two different ways to attach a Coilover. We have the Coilover Conversion Kit that utilizes a Bearing Mount on the top. The other type would attach with a Stud at the top like a regular Shock and would have a conical Spring.

I guess that's why I'm asking. What advantage does your system have over the Speedtech system that would justify modification of the frame? Because on the surface it looks like they both achieve the same result. I don't know what I don't know.....ya know?

[Steve Chryssos]

I like you.

[BMR Sales]

I guess that's why I'm asking. What advantage does your system have over the Speedtech system that would justify modification of the frame? Because on the surface it looks like they both achieve the same result. I don't know what I don't know.....ya know?

I hope Blake pops back in, but it looks like their Chicane Coilover Conversion kit installs similarly to ours

[67King]

I ultimately went with Global West. They have a drop mount on the lower control arm, which gives more shock travel, and hopefully I won't have to cut the chassis to get a decent shock in there. Some others also have a lower mounting point for coil overs, but the GW ones have more support. Ridetech has some stud adapters where you can mount into the standard portion of the frame, rather than cutting and welding in supports.

Anyway, to summarize, you can use standard arms and the stock chassis with the stud mount adapter, and have the least shock travel
You can cut and weld the to to gain about an inch in shock length.
You can leave the top alone, and run the arms that lower the mounting point for the shock and gain about an inch.
You can do both, and gain a couple of inches.

I know some companies offer both options, I don't believe everyone does, though. But I mainly wanted to point out that you could approach it like I did, and try to only have the LCA handle the changes, leaving alone the top.

[bret]

To get coil-overs with the BMR Front suspension you have to modify the shock mount and do some cutting and welding. With the Speedtech Pro-Touring suspension you don't have to do any of that. So what's the advantage of the BMR stuff over Speedtech if there is any? DS&E is out of the question (too much $$$) and Ride-tech's boss doesn't like me, so it's between Speedtech and BMR. The BMR setup would actually be $300 cheaper than Speedtech but I don't know that I like the black hammertone finish. Anyone got pic of their setup? Thanks for any input you can give me.

You don't mention the application, but from your sig I am assuming early Camaro?

Our 67-69 Camaro coilover / ShockWave system requires no modification to the upper shock mount, but does require at least our tubular lower control arm in order to achieve proper ride height. Our lower StrongArm drops the lower coilover / ShockWave mount to maintain appropriate shock travel and ride height. One item to consider with the "hybrid" coilovers [coilover style lower mount with standard coilspring upper mount]...that setup forces the shock and spring to travel in different arcs. This puts a significant amount of side load on the shock and can lead to a shorter life. That is the main reason we do not use it. In addition, there is a very limited amount of spring rates available for this style installation. Getting one that is correct for your particular application can be more difficult.

Your assessment that I may not like you is likely misinformed. I would have to know who you are to dislike you. Regardless, accurate information is always free.

[pitts64]

Bret, I liked you better when you didn't like him...lol

[killer69]

I hope Blake pops back in, but it looks like their Chicane Coilover Conversion kit installs similarly to ours

yes the original Chicane mounts (I think the first ones were installed in about 2005) are similar cut weld ect. there are some advantages i feel. 1. more spring rates available, 2. no possibility of side loading the shock shaft in the tapered springs. (now that being said we have YET to see a problem with the Viking shocks in these applications!) 3 the ease of assembly and disassembly. 4 they look COOLER.

[killer69]

You don't mention the application, but from your sig I am assuming early Camaro?

Our 67-69 Camaro coilover / ShockWave system requires no modification to the upper shock mount, but does require at least our tubular lower control arm in order to achieve proper ride height. Our lower StrongArm drops the lower coilover / ShockWave mount to maintain appropriate shock travel and ride height. One item to consider with the "hybrid" coilovers [coilover style lower mount with standard coilspring upper mount]...that setup forces the shock and spring to travel in different arcs. This puts a significant amount of side load on the shock and can lead to a shorter life. That is the main reason we do not use it. In addition, there is a very limited amount of spring rates available for this style installation. Getting one that is correct for your particular application can be more difficult.

Your assessment that I may not like you is likely misinformed. I would have to know who you are to dislike you. Regardless, accurate information is always free.

look at that we are on the same page i guess if 2 of the answers are the same it must be true....

[trapin]

OK. So what I got from all this (and thank you all who participated) is the advantage of cutting the frame and modifying the upper mount is so both the shock and spring travel on the same arc, thus extending the life of the shock. I guess I would be worried about that if I was autocrossing this car but it will most likely just be a cruiser. My one question to Speedtech would be...where do you set the ride height from your factory? Is it at stock ride height and we have to adjust from there or is there already an inch or couple inches of reduced height built into the whole setup from the factory? I would hate to buy these, bolt them on my car, and then adjust the ride height down the full two inches and the front end is still sitting an inch too high.

Oh, and Brett....it was a few years ago. You got mad at me on Facebook and deleted me. It was over some comments I made about people seeming to ignore the Sandy Hook tragedy. I just assumed I was off your Christmas list.

[OLDFLM]

Tony... BMR can do a silver powdercoat too if you ask them nicely. (c:]

[Steve Chryssos]

OK. So what I got from all this (and thank you all who participated) is the advantage of cutting the frame and modifying the upper mount is so both the shock and spring travel on the same arc, thus extending the life of the shock. I guess I would be worried about that if I was autocrossing this car but it will most likely just be a cruiser. My one question to Speedtech would be...where do you set the ride height from your factory? Is it at stock ride height and we have to adjust from there or is there already an inch or couple inches of reduced height built into the whole setup from the factory? I would hate to buy these, bolt them on my car, and then adjust the ride height down the full two inches and the front end is still sitting an inch too high.

Oh, and Brett....it was a few years ago. You got mad at me on Facebook and deleted me. It was over some comments I made about people seeming to ignore the Sandy Hook tragedy. I just assumed I was off your Christmas list.


Not exactly Tony. You have three options -- 4 really:

1) Cut the upper spring pockets, weld-on upper mounts and add a full length coilover that extends up through the subframe. Full shock travel. aka Chicane mount.
2) Choose a bolt-on system that has lower control arms with dropped coilover mounts and full length coilovers -- Full travel.
3) Choose a bolt-on system with short, partial coilovers - These systems are super convenient but have limited shock travel -- especially if you adjust the car low, plus the side-load issue.

..and number 4: Since this is a cruiser -- Do not rule out a good lowering coil springs with high quality, traditional shocks. As you're running the typical 25.5" to 26" tall tire, this is a real option for you

[trapin]

Not exactly Tony. You have three options -- 4 really:

1) Cut the upper spring pockets, weld-on upper mounts and add a full length coilover that extends up through the subframe. Full shock travel. aka Chicane mount.
2) Choose a bolt-on system that has lower control arms with dropped coilover mounts and full length coilovers -- Full travel.
3) Choose a bolt-on system with short, partial coilovers - These systems are super convenient but have limited shock travel -- especially if you adjust the car low, plus the side-load issue.

..and number 4: Since this is a cruiser -- Do not rule out a good lowering coil springs with high quality, traditional shocks. As you're running the typical 25.5" to 26" tall tire, this is a real option for you

Steve....#4 is what I have now. Eaton lowering springs with Koni Shocks on stock control arms. Rides like a Go-Kart.

Do the Speedtech arms fall under scenario #2? If not, which ones do?

[Steve Chryssos]

Tony,
Speedtech offers both styles. Eaton makes a fine spring, however, last I checked, Koni does not spend much time in the Pro-Touring sandbox. Regardless, they should ride okay. More importantly, since your car was sitting for many (many) moons, the shock's innards may have deteriorated.

First thing to understand when buying shocks and springs or coilovers is that springs essentially support the weight of the vehicle. They are primarily responsible for holding the car up. Shock absorbers are largely responsible for ride quality -- along with tires, body bushings and suspension bushings.

Of course, some Keyboard Kung Fu rocket scientist will chime in and comment that a 450lb/in spring rides better than a 1000lb/in spring. That's a different thread, Bruce Lee! In the case of your Camaro, shock valving and tires are critical for ride quality. If your tires are old and rock hard, that will contribute significantly to poor ride quality. (Past their expiration date?)
Spend some time getting your head around shock valving and shock quality. Are you happy with your car's ride height? From photos, it looks like the front of the car sits right -- certainly for a car that you want to actually drive. If that is the case, you might prefer to spend money on tires and shocks rather than coilover conversion.

[dhutton]

I’ve had a great ride with lowering springs and Bilstein shocks.

Don

[trapin]

Tony,
More importantly, since your car was sitting for many (many) moons, the shock's innards may have deteriorated.

If your tires are old and rock hard, that will contribute significantly to poor ride quality. (Past their expiration date?)
You know so much time has past it's easy to forget that.....yeah, it's been sitting for a long time. The shocks are easily 15 years old and the tires are from 2008. I have Koni Adjustable Shocks (the orange ones) on the front and Bilstein Shocks on the rear. I think you're probably onto something. I think for this year I will swap out the shocks and tires for new ones. I know the tires are hard, something Trevor and V8 Speed pointed out a number of times. I think that's a cheaper way to go, at least for this year. Thanks Steve.

[Steve Chryssos]

Inside of a gas twin tube shock.. The gas is stored in a plastic bag that is very similar to the packaging used for duck sauce at the Chinese restaurant. No kidding. They fail all the time. They fail over time. I know you're on a budget with this car. I suggest that you get yourself some monotube shocks and fresh tires. Ho Ho Ho. Keep your Eaton springs if you are happy with the car's ride height. If you don't have money for tires, pull the "Safety" card. Works every time. "But honey, if I don't get new tires, I could die..":drive2:

[andrewb70]

And don't get some silly tires with 400 tread ware. I consider good tires a consistent wear item and don't expect more than 2 years out of a set. On the Cougar I run drag radials in the rear and got 3 years out of them, which is plenty, considering the tread wear is 0...yes...zero...

Get good 200 tread ware tires, there are many options!

Andrew

[c4racer2]

Inside of a gas twin tube shock.. The gas is stored in a plastic bag that is very similar to the packaging used for duck sauce at the Chinese restaurant. No kidding. They fail all the time. They fail over time. I know you're on a budget with this car. I suggest that you get yourself some monotube shocks and fresh tires. Ho Ho Ho. Keep your Eaton springs if you are happy with the car's ride height. If you don't have money for tires, pull the "Safety" card. Works every time. "But honey, if I don't get new tires, I could die..":drive2:

Well now - I guess pulling that card kinda depends on how strong your life insurance policy is !!

[trapin]

And don't get some silly tires with 400 tread ware. I consider good tires a consistent wear item and don't expect more than 2 years out of a set. On the Cougar I run drag radials in the rear and got 3 years out of them, which is plenty, considering the tread wear is 0...yes...zero...

Get good 200 tread ware tires, there are many options!

Andrew
Andrew, when you say "Tread ware" do you mean Tread Grade?

I'm looking at going Nitto NT555 G2's in the front (245/40/R17) and in the rear M&H Drag Radial (275/50/R17). I gotta do Drag Radials just once on this car. I gotta take it to a Drag Strip this summer to see what it can do.

Also what good monotube shocks do you guys recommend?

[Shawn0331]

Are Viking coilovers out of the question? they will pretty much build you whatever you need. They built some for my Javelin and i know another guy building a Jav just got some that had a shorter body to accommodate his lower ride height.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, when you say "Tread ware" do you mean Tread Grade?

I'm looking at going Nitto NT555 G2's in the front (245/40/R17) and in the rear M&H Drag Radial (275/50/R17). I gotta do Drag Radials just once on this car. I gotta take it to a Drag Strip this summer to see what it can do.

Also what good monotube shocks do you guys recommend?

The 275/50-17 tires will make your Camaro look like a dump truck because they are 28" tall. If you want to go drag racing, buy a cheap set of 15" wheels and mount your choice of drag radials on them for when you want to go drag racing.

Otherwise, I would rock these:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R1R&frontTire=44WR7PR1RV2&rearTire=74WR7PR1RV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Andrew

[79-TA]

Andrew, when you say "Tread ware" do you mean Tread Grade?



Treadwear rating, treadwear grade, UTQG . . . the number that gives an estimate for the wear characteristics of the tire. Just don't confuse it with the traction grade characters (like "AA".)

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/motorsport-messages-from-marshall/utqg-treadwear-numbers-what-do-they-mean

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48&

[c4racer2]

Toyo over the Falken 615's?

I do like Toyo tires - ran a spec tire series for a few years with NASA that used the RA1 - never ran them on the street and used shaved tires there starting at 4/32" but those worked really well on the track and lasted forever.

[andrewb70]

Toyo over the Falken 615's?

I do like Toyo tires - ran a spec tire series for a few years with NASA that used the RA1 - never ran them on the street and used shaved tires there starting at 4/32" but those worked really well on the track and lasted forever.

I was looking for sizes that Tony wants 245/40-17 front and 275/40-17 rear. The 615 is not available in those sizes, hence the Toyo recommendation.

Andrew

[c4racer2]

oh - missed that. Typical matched size is 245-45-17 and 275-40-17, both 25.6" diameter. 245-40 is more like a 25" tire.