'95 F-150 track ready street beast

[Sbeck09]

Wow what a week! It's been crazy for me and I'd say it's all been good. Some of it is a distraction from this project, but I promise I'm not losing interest or drive.

One great thing is the delivery I had waiting when I got home from the office:

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Took a little over a month, but the custom driveshaft is here and it seems like everything came out perfect! One thing some of you will notice is the lack of a rear CV joint. DSS recommended this solid 6-bolt flange instead since the transmission output slides. Now that I have it here I can see how well this will work. So one of my tasks this weekend is to make the pass through my X brace with a driveshaft loop.

I also had Joe's Racing make me some upper control arms since they have a jig that's more accurate than what I can do on a single set. They look great and seems strong yet light. One thing to note: their upper plate is for the metric upper ball joints and not the 1st gen Camaro stuff I bought. Basically the mounting holes are about 1/8" off so you can't bolt it in. I ended up ordering the Howe ball joints so I could use the 70+ Camaro housing with 67-69 Camaro stud. Kind of an odd combo, but it should work perfectly.

One question I hope you guys can answer is: Can I bolt my ball joints in under the arm rather than from the top? Reason being that I get more roll correction this way. Is there a potential safety/strength issue that I'm not seeing?:help:

OEM style:
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Under mounted:
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[cornfedbill]

Those are nice arms. I like Joe’s Racing products. Good stuff.

Well, if it is bolted on to it is constrained if the bolts fail or loosen up. If they are on the bottom and fail thing get bad real fast.

Just don’t let the bolts fail.

What is the benefit of bolting the ball joints under the control arms?

[iadr]

Those are nice arms. I like Joe’s Racing products. Good stuff.

Well, if it is bolted on to it is constrained if the bolts fail or loosen up. If they are on the bottom and fail thing get bad real fast.

Just don’t let the bolts fail.

What is the benefit of bolting the ball joints under the control arms?

He's trying to get the benefit of a taller spindle, aka taller (upper) BJ, put it whicherver way you want, same thing.
AFIAK, taller BJ for that position are on the shelf at Howe.

That said, I seem to remember a couple of the biggest names there are in OE- Toyota and GM doing the ball joints "upside down", so just to argue, is that really any different (equally unsafe) than what he's doing? I would do ARP fasteners. Had no success with cheap, glass hard Gr8 stuff. Worse than gr 5 in just about every way.

[Sbeck09]

Those are nice arms. I like Joe’s Racing products. Good stuff.

Well, if it is bolted on to it is constrained if the bolts fail or loosen up. If they are on the bottom and fail thing get bad real fast.

Just don’t let the bolts fail.

What is the benefit of bolting the ball joints under the control arms?

You make a great point as far as the arm kind of being stuck on if I mount the arms like oem. Maybe I'll just do that. I always like to build in safety nets where I can.

The point of mounting them under the arm is solely to gain height at the outside of the arm. I need to raise my roll center a bit more than my taller ball joints are doing.

[Sbeck09]

He's trying to get the benefit of a taller spindle, aka taller (upper) BJ, put it whicherver way you want, same thing.
AFIAK, taller BJ for that position are on the shelf at Howe.

That said, I seem to remember a couple of the biggest names there are in OE- Toyota and GM doing the ball joints "upside down", so just to argue, is that really any different (equally unsafe) than what he's doing? I would do ARP fasteners. Had no success with cheap, glass hard Gr8 stuff. Worse than gr 5 in just about every way.

You nailed it! I already have +.5" ball joints and I've heard of breaking studs on anything longer. I think I'll look into lower the inner mount a little to not resort to sketchy fixes.

Good point about the upside down mounted BJ spindles. Never thought of that. I need to try and use this stuff as intended. I think we can all see that I'm not the smartest at suspension design. Haha

[cornfedbill]

You make a great point as far as the arm kind of being stuck on if I mount the arms like oem. Maybe I'll just do that. I always like to build in safety nets where I can.

The point of mounting them under the arm is solely to gain height at the outside of the arm. I need to raise my roll center a bit more than my taller ball joints are doing.

Mounting the flange above or below the control arm will not change the geometry. The pivot of the ball is still the same. You will need to go to a taller ball joint or a uni-ball to increase the distance between the ball joint pivots.

[Sbeck09]

Mounting the flange above or below the control arm will not change the geometry. The pivot of the ball is still the same. You will need to go to a taller ball joint or a uni-ball to increase the distance between the ball joint pivots.

I didn't think about that. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll work on lowering my inner mount to accomplish what I'm after.

[Sbeck09]

Can't believe it's been 2 weeks since I've felt like enough work has been done for an update. I've been busy with multiple other things on my plate right now, but I'm still very much motivated to drive this thing sooner rather than later.

Big thing has obviously been to wrap up suspension arm fab. Lower arms are 90% welded now and they feel light, but very beefy.

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I plated it all in with 3/16" plate that was laying around so it should be pretty strong. The flat top plat gives me a nice spot to mount shock to the arm. I want to keep everything outboard and near the wheel.

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You can better see the idea here. I should have plenty of room to the spindles, but all the heavy loads are contained to the heavily reinforced part of the arm.

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Here is a better view without the shock mount blocking. Those are QA1 serviceable lower ball joints.

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And of course a front view to show the arm angles. You can see that I have about 8 degrees of anti dive set in the upper arms and the arm angles all seem about what I expected. I kinda wanted a little more roll center adjustment on the upper arms, but it's really not worth fighting to get more. I think this will work far better than any of these trucks ever should and many other vehicles ever could. I'll be tacking the upper A plates on sometime this week.

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Big shocker though....I have a new issue. My bump steer kit for the Mustang spindles is of course not going to work now. I have the studs from Ridetech to use a 5/8" heim with their steering arms, but I can't find a compatible FEMALE heim joint since the tie rods are M14x1.5 threads. Anyone have any idea where I can find something that will fit this combo or that I can custom order? Hell even an idea for how I can make one?

[cornfedbill]

That looks plenty stout. It looks pretty good to me.

[Sbeck09]

That looks plenty stout. It looks pretty good to me.

Thank you! The one thing that's not accounted for yet is where I will mount the sway bar. Mainly because I have no idea what to run. Haha.

[Jaymzz]

Looking good! Wish my work area was that clean lol

[Sbeck09]

Glad you like it. I'm ready to see it all painted!

I feel like my work area is anything but clean, but it's kinda of a small area so that's probably why. I'm ready for a real shop of my own.

[Jaymzz]

My small shop was built in 1931 and been used very hard over the years. I ran out of room years ago and have metal and car parts shoved in every nook and cranny. No matter how much I clean still looks dirty so been looking into tearing it down and building a shop. :D

[Sbeck09]

We did that when I was a little kid. Never stopped holding wrenches since.

I actually had an offer fall through on 1.6 acres a couple months back due to improper zoning. I'm still looking for another suitable spot. The whole idea was to build a shop so I can get better organized and build better projects. So if you can, I vote do it!

[Project Bike Truck]

We did that when I was a little kid. Never stopped holding wrenches since.

I actually had an offer fall through on 1.6 acres a couple months back due to improper zoning. I'm still looking for another suitable spot. The whole idea was to build a shop so I can get better organized and build better projects. So if you can, I vote do it!

Just go buy a house and hanger on the small airstrip and live life peacefully.

[Sbeck09]

Just go buy a house and hanger on the small airstrip and live life peacefully.

Would be kinda fun, but probably out of my budget. A hanger would certainly be big enough even if it was only made for a small plane. At the same time, trying to insulate and possibly cool that large of a space sounds painful. Haha...the joys of living in a major city in the desert.

[Project Bike Truck]

Would be kinda fun, but probably out of my budget. A hanger would certainly be big enough even if it was only made for a small plane. At the same time, trying to insulate and possibly cool that large of a space sounds painful. Haha...the joys of living in a major city in the desert.

I mean I don’t know your budget but there was one not too long ago next to freeway end of the airstrip. It was hella temping.

[Sbeck09]

Alright we are finally back to where we were a couple month ago! Just kidding....we are way better off than the last setup. I LOVE the new arm arrangement and feel much more confident in it's functionality.

Lower arms are missing one weld, the shock mount, and paint before they are 100% complete. Upper arms just need paint and I will have to final weld the A-plates that they mount to. I breathed a big sigh of relief last night as I locked up knowing that this is finally going to be done.

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Final specs as it sits are: 0 degrees of static camber, 7 degrees of caster, and 8.5 degrees of anti-dive. I can add a ton more camber and caster should I choose. In 3 inches of wheel travel it gains 1.2 degrees of camber. This only requires 2 inches of shock stroke as best I can measure right now.

As I mentioned in my previous post I have been trying to figure out how to address the tie rods since these GM based spindles were never supposed to work with this S197 front steer rack. I believe I figured it out! First I had to test with parts on hand.

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Little trimming here and there and I ended up better off...

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But you can all see the gross amount of bump steer. Fear not, I am on it! There is actually 2 issues with this right there. 1, I have no adjustment range left and I'm fairly sure it has some toe out (going to try and check later). 2, the tie rod angle has to be fixed asap. I just got off the phone with Flaming River (love those guys) and they offer an inner tie rod for this rack that has double the length of threads. So I'll just cut them down and I will then have adjustment to fix the toe. Those will be ordered right after I post this. To fix the other issue will require me to make a new rack mount that moves it higher because I don't have room inside the wheel for a longer stud on the steering arm. Hopefully I left enough room around the oil pan to be able to move the rack. Fingers crossed.

What do you all think? Did I miss anything or do you have any suggestions here?

[Sbeck09]

Installed some little parts on the rear suspension to start prepping to do all my shock mounts. Pretty exciting to think it can support itself soon. It's been a while. I didn't get any photos of that so you will all just have to wait.

Something else I did was check tire clearance from lock to lock. Dang I've got some angle!

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And it looks beefy with only the 275s so I can't wait to get 315s under this beast. I will say that I have absolutely no room for additional backspacing so the wider wheels will be all outboard. Luckily that should perfectly fill the wheel wells.

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One thing to note....I've been trying to make sure I am setting up my Ackerman Angle correctly, but nobody just shows a freakin diagram in plain english. For a front steer rack like I have, are my steering arms actually supposed to angle toward the outside? I hope you guys haven't been letting me slip up...:hammer:

[WallaceMFG]

Looking good! I like seeing the progress!

And to answer your question, yes. For a front steer application to have Ackerman the steering arms should be outboard of the ball joint, rear steer should be inboard. From your pictures, it looks like the arm is pretty well in line with the ball joint, so there is no (or little) Ackerman. If I recall those are A Body steering arms, which may have used the drag links to create ackerman. Or, it was the 60s and they didn't care as shown by the horrible camber curves those cars had originally. It's been a while since I've done chassis geometry, so somebody with more experience may have a better explanation.

If your arms are inboard of the ball joint, you technically would have Anti-Ackerman. Some racers used this as it improved outer tire grip since that wheel has more force on it.

[Sbeck09]

Looking good! I like seeing the progress!

And to answer your question, yes. For a front steer application to have Ackerman the steering arms should be outboard of the ball joint, rear steer should be inboard. From your pictures, it looks like the arm is pretty well in line with the ball joint, so there is no (or little) Ackerman. If I recall those are A Body steering arms, which may have used the drag links to create ackerman. Or, it was the 60s and they didn't care as shown by the horrible camber curves those cars had originally. It's been a while since I've done chassis geometry, so somebody with more experience may have a better explanation.

If your arms are inboard of the ball joint, you technically would have Anti-Ackerman. Some racers used this as it improved outer tire grip since that wheel has more force on it.

Thanks for chiming in! I've spent an unhealthy amount of time searching for a simple answer. Haha. I just double checked and I guess the arm is basically in line with the ball joint.

From what I understand the A body cars are rear steer with a drag link and even the rack swaps maintain rear steer. I'll swap my arms shortly and see if that works better when I turn lock to lock. I feel like with the longer wheelbase of the truck having Ackerman would be helpful in Autocross environments where direction changes are abrupt and tight. It's hard to measure by myself, but it looks like my wheelbase is about 113".

[WallaceMFG]

Thanks for chiming in! I've spent an unhealthy amount of time searching for a simple answer. Haha. I just double checked and I guess the arm is basically in line with the ball joint.

From what I understand the A body cars are rear steer with a drag link and even the rack swaps maintain rear steer. I'll swap my arms shortly and see if that works better when I turn lock to lock. I feel like with the longer wheelbase of the truck having Ackerman would be helpful in Autocross environments where direction changes are abrupt and tight. It's hard to measure by myself, but it looks like my wheelbase is about 113".

On the A Bodys (at least for 69) they are front steer, here's a picture of our Chevelle chassis with the steering bits out in the open (minus the box). If I recall correctly, the steering arms only go on one way because the steering stops are built into them. However my parts are older than yours and may be different.

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I know the first gen F & X body cars are rear steer, and that's one of the bad points of the chassis. Pretty much every aftermarket subframe converts them to front steer. The 2nd gen F body cars went to front steer as well. From my chassis classes, front steer is preferred because it puts the tie rods in tension where they are stronger compared to compression.

Ackerman is mostly for slow speed maneuvering and probably isn't a huge concern for racing. Even in a tight autocross course, the inside tire will be lighter and have less steering input compared to the outer. For what it's worth, it is probably easier just to dial in some toe out to get better turn in for autocrossing and take it back out for street driving. That way it doesn't twitch around and drive you crazy lol.

[Sbeck09]

Awesome info and pic! My parts may be newer, but some things never change. I just tried to flip the steering arms around and they only fit on one way. My only other real option is to make my own arms, but I would rather not. And yes tie rods are much stronger in tension than compression.

I think you make a valid point to not focus as hard on this compared to the overall setup. It's just me trying to account for every little thing before I set everything in it's final place.:hammer: Plus if I don't feel like I'm turning fast enough I can always stab the throttle. I'm sure 600+hp will bring the rear around at will. :evil:

[WallaceMFG]

I'd hope 600 HP would make the rear end loose, especially in a truck! Even our wimpy little 350 in our Chevelle can bring the back end around if you're not careful lol.

[Sbeck09]

I'd hope 600 HP would make the rear end loose, especially in a truck! Even our wimpy little 350 in our Chevelle can bring the back end around if you're not careful lol.

Yeah I was never planning on more than 450, but the engine builder and I kept talking and I wanted an engine that could take a ton of abuse in a stock block. Unfortunately (yeah right) making a strong motor usually means it runs more efficiently. In my case that meant more power than I planned on. Oh well...not mad about it.

[Sbeck09]

Little more work on the truck and a new part to finish up front suspension fab. Yes...I know I keep saying that, but I do need a sway bar. Shoutout to Speedway Engineering for this one. They aren't a sponsor, but I chatted with them back at Goodguys Scottsdale and just got around to calling to see what we could do. They are incredibly nice and knowledgeable plus their prices are VERY fair. I looked at a ton of options and they ended up being the cheapest and best fitting somehow. This bar with this length of arms is 375lbs of resistance (I think). I can go up to like 425ish if I recall correctly. Right now it's purely guessing on my part so I left room to go up or down in stiffness.

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Not sure where to mount it yet. I'll probably be better off mounting it under the frame rails. Also, should I bend the arms out toward the lower shock mount? My brain is telling me that it won't be very effective this far toward the pivot point on the control arm. I can ask the neighbor to bring his torch and try to bend it out somehow.

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Then I got to work laying out my shock mounts and mockup shocks. These have all been set to the 12.5" length that my Ridetech shocks will be at ride height. One big question I have here is whether or not the angle of the shock matters at all on a double wishbone setup like this? The front is about 3 degrees leaned back and the rear is about 2 degrees forward. I did it purely for clearance in the rear and just to make it look uniform up front.

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No I'm not mounting the upper shock like this, but it just made sense for the purposes of seeing how it fits. I'll have to build something out of plate to hold it away. I haven't worked that solution out yet. I'm waiting until the lower mount is tacked on.

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You can see how tight the rear is on the S550s when you run coilovers. And this is with the Ridetech swaybar relocation brackets, endlink flip, and their lower shock mounts from their own coilover kit. I really had to sweet talk them for these separate, but it's super helpful.

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If I can find an answer by tomorrow afternoon I'll be burning these mounts in after work. Then I can finish weld all the suspension for good. Kinda hard to believe I'm actually that close to done measuring everything 50x on this.:git:

[Sbeck09]

Unfortunately I found no definitive answers either way on fore/aft shock angle importance with this type of suspension, not that mine are extremely off vertical. So I figured I'd just go for it. And voila...just like that all 4 shocks now have a home and I can plug in all the measurements and have my shocks custom built. Bear in mind...none if this is final welded yet and I do plan to add in a number of plates to help brace everything better. I know these mounts take a beating.

First the front:

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And of course the rear:

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Next item I am attacking is the driveshaft loop that will tie into the X-brace. From there it's just a lot of plating and welding. I ran out of shield gas today plus it's 105 out so time for a break. I'm feeling much more accomplished and motivated to get this done compared to two weeks ago.

[dug]

Great thread with great information. Your build is inspiring, keep the updates coming.

[Sbeck09]

Great thread with great information. Your build is inspiring, keep the updates coming.

Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying it. This has certainly tested me in every way since there are no off-the-shelf chassis parts. I'm excited to move onto fitting the body back and getting the power train fully installed. Things should move a bit faster over the next couple months. I need to hear this engine!

[70CougarXr7]

Been watching before and said it before, amazing how you do this,
Bunch of car wizzards on here.

I need to hear that engine running too :D, so post a video when its running :)

[vette427-sbc]

Regarding the ackerman... I think the rule of thumb for was something like if you had an imaginary line drawn through the tie rod end and lower balljoint, the drivers and passenger side should intersect at the rear axle. This would mean for a front steer car, the tie rod end is further out than the lower balljoint. I think its definitely a worthy thing to explore... Alot of the suspension kits that were utilizing a C5/6 spindle are now offering different steering arms to correct the ackerman that was designed into the C5/6 spindle with the intention of a different wheelbase.

[Sbeck09]

Regarding the ackerman... I think the rule of thumb for was something like if you had an imaginary line drawn through the tie rod end and lower balljoint, the drivers and passenger side should intersect at the rear axle. This would mean for a front steer car, the tie rod end is further out than the lower balljoint. I think its definitely a worthy thing to explore... Alot of the suspension kits that were utilizing a C5/6 spindle are now offering different steering arms to correct the ackerman that was designed into the C5/6 spindle with the intention of a different wheelbase.

I think I did see a couple crude drawings online that showed something along those lines, thanks! I also noticed all the different steering arms for vette spindles and I'm kind of jealous about it. I found 2 options for my spindles so far, but one is for circle track and I'm not too sure about it yet. The other looks great aside from it saying it's for zero ackerman front steer. These people are killing me here! Haha. As usual I'm stuck with the idea of having to make my own, but I have no idea how to even start that and make sure it's strong enough. Anyone ever made steering arms?

[Sbeck09]

Been watching before and said it before, amazing how you do this,
Bunch of car wizzards on here.

I need to hear that engine running too :D, so post a video when its running :)

I'm just a young guy with enough knowledge to be dangerous, but thanks for the kind words. I'm so glad there is actually people watching along even if they don't always chime in.

You better believe I will share multiple videos. I take sound quality VERY seriously too. I've actually kinda vlogged a good bit of the build, but I'm not too hot at editing which makes me super slow at it. The idea was of course to share on YouTube for those that prefer watching strangers talk to a camera. That will probably happen eventually.

[dug]

This is a great idea to document your build as much as possible. I can't count how many times I've tried searching for suspension related things on google and any bit of info was so hard to find. The more material out there hopefully the better the search engines can pick it up. It takes a lot of time to do though.

[Sbeck09]

Yeah I completely agree. If this even helps one person it was worth it to me.

The most difficult thing I've had to find was actual measurements and degree info on setting this type of suspension up. I was so surprised that more people haven't shared so I'm happy to put it out there. I'll be making sure to update as I test so that you can see any changes I have to make from where I'm starting from now.

[SSLance]

Regarding Ackerman and it's effectiveness on street and on track...

My car's Ackerman was greatly increased when I put the ATS spindles on a couple of years ago. My first road test after included a series of 35 mph off\on ramps where two 4 lane highways intersected. I'd typically take these long sweeping corners at around 80-90 mph and on this first test it was immediately apparent how much better the front end reacted mid-turn compared to before...because of the increased Ackerman. Mid turn, steady state, just the slightest input into the steering wheel resulted in immediate reaction from the front tires.

I'm not sure what the Ackerman was on the stock spindles but with the steering arms pointed out on the ATS spindles, I now see 21 degrees on the outside tire net 27 degrees on the inside tire. This has helped EVERYWHERE and I see no ill affects street driving, autocrossing or on track days.

The way I see it, we are already getting everything we can out of the outside front tire...so gains on the inside front tire are the only way to get more front grip. Running huge caster and Ackerman along with a large front sway bar all help to plant that inside front tire for more front grip.

[Sbeck09]

Great real world feedback! I also agree with you about making the inside tire more beneficial as we all focus pretty much exclusively on the outside. I'd love to correct my lack of Ackerman while I'm in here, but I can't find steering arms that are any help.

You're usually up on what's out there for parts....know of anything at all for front steer with these spindles?

[Sbeck09]

Not a huge leap forward, but there is a complete drive line in the chassis now. This is definitely the confidence booster I needed. Almost kinda makes me sad to have to go out of town while I'm making good progress.

First I trimmed the X enough for the driveshaft to slide home

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Then I bent up and fitted my loop to the existing cross member that supports the cab. That Rogue Fabrication M600 bender is so easy to make something like this. I actually bent that flare up on the cross member, but forgot to take a photo. That was for the front factory fuel tank.

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After that I cut tubes to tie the X back into the loop which made everything super strong again. It's actually stronger than before since there is support in the middle now. I won't go much further than this with bracing due to space limitations, but just putting a jack under one corner of the frame, I can feel a huge increase in stiffness.

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I think it all fits perfectly and looks pretty great too. I most likely wouldn't do it this way if I was doing it over again, but this will work totally great. Yes, I will cap off each tube. It will just be easier to do after I remove everything.

Also thought I would show the diff side of the driveshaft. I originally wanted the same CV joint that is on the stock mustang drive shaft, but DSS recommended this flange they make since my TKO already has a slip yoke. A CV would let the driveshaft float back and forth. I have to say, it fits flawlessly and they even included bolts. Funny how many parts I have gotten that don't have the hardware. The hardware dept guy at Lowe's knows me now because I'm always looking for grade 8 bolts. Haha

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I also noticed something else while working on the back half last night. The OEM parking brake cables routed through a bracket just under the driver's butt on the frame. The mustang cables actually reach over there easily so I might try to adapt it to the stock E brake setup. It will fit easier once I cut the leaf spring mounts off, but they are doing great as jack stand mounts right now. Funny all the little things you never think of when you start a project like this.

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That's probably all I'll get done for a couple weeks as I have a work conference coming up and I always fly to MD to see all my family for the 4th of July. I'm already excited to get back and finish the frame though.:ssst:

[Sbeck09]

Wow! It has been a hot minute since I was able to come update you guys. Of course you've seen that I have been working if you follow my instagram.

So since the last update I revised my X brace design thanks to input from another member. I was bummed about the idea of redoing ANOTHER part, but I'm glad I did now.

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This was all to prep that section for making a home for my fuel cell. It will live at the front of the bed, 2 inches above the driveshaft. Yes I am making a plate to protect the bottom from any potential exploding shafts.

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I went with the aluminum can, 18 gallon, and internal 350LPH Aeromotive pump. It's supposed to be good for up to 700hp on E85. Only weighs 45lbs with no fuel in it!

The biggest thing I did was buy a gantry crane. Some of you may have noticed that The cab has been suspended above the frame held up by bricks on furniture dollies. It's kinda sketchy, but the best I could do working alone at the time. The cab has always been in my way and I didn't have room to try and use my engine crane to lift the cab. I should have bought this crane months ago!

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Oh yeah....I made the frame a roller. That was a cool moment to see it support it's own weight after all these months. One main issue that popped up if the front frame rails need A LOT more support to take the suspension loads. It was flexing just under it's own weight.

And the last update for this post is another failed attempt to buy premade headers. This has become a frustrating part of the process. See the issue?

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I have no idea how anyone would ever get a spark plug wire in that area. Everything else about these headers is actually pretty fantastic, but without spark none of it matters. So I suppose these go back and I just have to modify the first set I got since that vendor refuses to respond to anything.

I think I decided on what to do with my steering arms. The more I look at them now, the more I know it's wrong to leave it be. The only guy I can find that ever made steering arms to fix the front-steer Akerman for this A-body spindle stopped making them a few years back (just my luck). So I'm going to make a little jig to cut and weld the arms in a better position. More to come on that, but any tips or suggestions are welcome.

More soon
-Sean

[WallaceMFG]

What is your IG handle? Link in your sig appears to be broken. I've been missing the truck updates lol

For the SBF some heads here designed with straight plugs, some were designed with angled plugs. Those heads look like they are the "angle" plug type similar to a GT40P head like I have on my Rustang (unless the pic angle is throwing me off), and I'm guessing the headers were designed for "straight" plug heads. Here's a link with a pic showing the difference: https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/gt40-vs-gt40p-head-engine-manifold-question.417681/

That might explain the issue with the plug clearance. Certainly worth looking into, but I think you're going to end up modifying/building your own headers due to the application. Both of the cars my family has built ran into header issues. Our 69 Torino with a 351 Cleveland in it took two sets of headers cut apart and rerouted to clear the steering components, and it still is tight. On the other hand, our Chevelle with a 350 SBC we thought we were good, and they managed to screw those up too and we had to modify them.

The only headers I've never had to touch were the ones I put on my Rustang, and they were designed by Ford so that explains why they actually fit.

[Sbeck09]

Thanks for the heads up about the link being broken. All better now. My handle is @innovaspeed if that helps.

You are right that these heads have angled plugs vs the stock heads having straight. Oddly enough, I feel like straight plugs would fit far worse with these headers. They are nicely built for a great price, but I need spark to run. Haha.

I talked to the header manufacturer earlier today and the tech was like "oh yeah those never work right with aftermarket heads." UGH!!! It doesn't say that anywhere in the description. So yes, at this point I'm going to be modifying the first headers I bought. Why am I cutting up $1300 headers instead of something cheaper you might ask? Because the vendor (thankfully not a sponsor here) has not responded to any form of communication I've attempted over multiple months. So if I'm stuck with them, I'm gonna just make it work.

I have both modified and scratch built headers before so you'd think I wouldn't be so resistant, but it's so time consuming and tedious that I just want to bolt some on and keep going. This project has taken much longer than anticipated so I'm anxious to get onto more interesting tasks. I have also been to the dyno and seen first hand how fast craptastic headers can kill 30-50hp. I refuse to choke up this expensive of an engine and I want this thing to sound mean too.

Hopefully I can knock this out within the next week. I want to see what kind of exhaust clearance I have so I can add more chassis bracing.

[WallaceMFG]

I know what you mean about projects taking a long time. We had a date in mind for when we wanted our Chevelle done, and we missed it by a year and a half lol. The little things add up quick and next thing you know 3 months have gone by.

Keep the updates coming, and the progress will come with them!

[Sbeck09]

This weekend was a fun one for this project. I'm feeling more like I can get this running sooner rather than later for sure.

Got the actual engine in for the first time. So think about it. No more mock up parts...this is all the real deal from engine to drive axles. And it all fit perfectly! Plus it looks like I can kick the bottom of the radiator toward the engine to better encourage airflow, but we will get more into that in a couple weeks or so.

166714

Looks like it was made for it. Oh yeah...it was. Haha. Before the engine went in I did the last set of boxing plate on either side of the motor mounts. This will help the frame not flex so bad and give me a good sport to add more reinforcements to the engine and shock mounts. You can see in the first photo that I added 1/4" plate reinforcement inside the frame rail before I covered it. I'm hoping this further encourages everything to hold it's shape. In order to connect the new plate to it I made some slots with the grinder and then just welded it up. I'm super happy with the end result.

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166716

Once all that was done and the engine installed I finally cut up those headers. First cut was kinda painful to do, but once I got over it the rest was business as usual. One bright side to cutting up expensive parts is that it's a good quality material to work with so I suppose that is the silver lining. By modifying only 1 tube on each header everything will fit perfectly.

166717

I have to admit that I'm totally confused how these headers are expected to bolt onto this engine even without my giant oil pan. I even have a more compact starter and it's right where a tube used to be before I cut it to reroute! Fortunately these were done with a slip-on collector so that's making this much easier than normal. I did have to order some additional tube to complete the job so I'll do other stuff this week while I wait. I also ran out of welding gas (again). Hopefully I can pick more up today.

The list of tasks left before the frame is done has shrunken considerably. I'm down to fuel cell mount, couple of filler plates, finish weld the rear subframe to the main frame, add a few reinforcing tubes, flip to weld the bottom, and paint. Sure that will take some effort and time, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Jaymzz]

Looks like it is getting close! Can't wait to see some video's of you tearing it up in this. :thumbsup:

[cornfedbill]

Are you planning to box the frame or gusset it where it supports the rear shock top mounts? It looks like there may be some potential for the top flange of the frame rail to flex, unless there is something I cannot see in the photos.

[Sbeck09]

Looks like it is getting close! Can't wait to see some video's of you tearing it up in this. :thumbsup:

Thanks buddy! I will still have to remove everything from the frame 1 more time to finish weld and paint, but the install should be super simple. Famous last words right?

[SSLance]

Looking great Sean, love that you are making progress even in these undesirable temperatures!!

[Sbeck09]

Looking great Sean, love that you are making progress even in these undesirable temperatures!!

Thanks Lance! Yeah these days at like 115 degrees are kicking my ass and slowing things down. I can go hard for about 30-40 minutes and then have to come in and cool off. I started at 6am Saturday and Sunday just to try and get something done before it was too hot. My new shop can't come soon enough!

[Sbeck09]

Another solid weekend done! All this forward progress lately is helping keep my motivation levels up, but I'm sooooo ready to start this engine!

First up was to TIG my two modified header primaries. Honestly, I've been putting this off. Now that I have finished I'm laughing at myself because it really wasn't that bad. Lucky for me, these came with a slip-fit collector so I could tack everything together and then remove just that tube for welding. Then insert and install right after. Piece of cake (no really, I literally treated myself to cake after this).

This:
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To this:
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I am wayyyy out of practice with my TIG welding and that's even more true for this thin stainless. I used to knock out a full custom race system in a day with fairly pretty welds. These were....well it will hold and not leak.

Once I bolted those on with gaskets (24hr Autozone 2 miles from home is legit), I decided to keep rolling on the exhaust and do the rest. I bought a universal 3" 304 stainless kit from Flowmaster when I got my mufflers. I chose a pair of their Hushpower Pro Shorty series mufflers. I've run the Hushpower series on multiple vehicles with multiple engines and I generally won't run anything else. It's extremely effective, but makes killer sound and power with a small package. I'm using univeral stainless hangers from Summit.

166899

I orginally wanted to do a side exit just in front of the rear tires. After looking at the frame vs bed side position I scrapped the idea. Just too complicated to make it look right and would end up routing hot exhaust tubes next to my battery and fuel cell. So thanks to the wonder of Amazon Prime same day delivery, I had 2 45's delivered that dump off the mufflers at the front of the rear suspension. Light and simple. :twothumbs

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It's not hard to notice that there is some missing tubes for the frame there. Good eye. It was suggested to me that I redo my brace setup and now that it is done, I 110% agree. Looks and fits so much better. :bananna2:

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166902

And that's where I stopped. Next two big tasks are fuel cell mount and modifying the steering arms (been avoiding these just like the headers). Hopefully both turn out to be as easy as the exhaust was.

[Sbeck09]

Question for you guys, I am going over my list of remaining items for frame fabrication (getting pretty short!) and I realized that I still need to finalize how I'm mounting the sway bar, and more importantly, where it will link to the control arms. Traditionally they are linked to the lower arms, but I don't have a ton of room to work with there when you factor in the shock/spring. In fact there is pretty much no room except for the inside of the arm which obviously doesn't move as much as the outside (theoretically limiting the effectiveness of the bar). I saw that No Limit has their sway bars linked to the upper arms out by the ball joint. Is there any notable drawbacks to me doing the same? It leaves much more room to avoid potential bind, but I have no idea about strength limitations.

Thanks in advance!

[Sbeck09]

Quick one this time since I took yesterday off of everything to finally relax. First time I have slept past 6am in about a month. Ahhh...

I wanted to tackle the fuel cell mount since my plan is to use the base of the mount to add some strength under the bed, just behind cab. I first realized that my boxing plates covered up the forward mounting holes for the bed so I made a pocket that is easily accessible with a socket and ratchet. This was foresight caused by past mistakes on other projects. Glad I thought of it now!

167101

Then I just measured up some square tube since that seemed like the best fit for the fuel cell. Thanks to my measurements improving along the way, it welded up nice and square and fit nearly perfect between the frame rails.

167102

It looks like it practically lays on the driveshaft, but that's just the photo. It actually has more than 3/4" at it's closest point. And remember, the drive shaft shouldn't ever move more than MAYBE 1/4" since I have IRS. I also made sure that the bottom of the fuel cell was not the closest point just in case anything ever did let go under there.

Then I got to finally set the cell in there and it couldn't fit more perfectly! No movement at all, but slides right into place. Of course I have more mounts and braces to add, but it is self-supporting now. It also looks super tall, but won't stick above the bed floor more than about 4". Excuse the tarps. Our monsoon season came late this year and I did this as I was running inside from 55mph winds with rain.

167103

Yes I could lower the center of gravity by having it all the way at the back of the frame like many others. Those of you that have been following for a while or know me personally will agree that isn't what I was after. I know that in theory, you want as much mass between the axles as possible. When this is full of fuel it will weigh nearly 200lbs. So I decided that was significant enough to raise it's mass 6" higher while moving it much more centrally. Feel free to argue against it though.

Oh yeah...the specs....18 gallon Fuel Safe FIA certified cell, aluminum case upgrade, remote fill, internal Aeromotive 340lph E85 pump, 3/4 gal trap door sump, E85 friendly foam, and a fuel level sensor. It was only 45 lbs without fuel.

[WallaceMFG]

Question for you guys, I am going over my list of remaining items for frame fabrication (getting pretty short!) and I realized that I still need to finalize how I'm mounting the sway bar, and more importantly, where it will link to the control arms. Traditionally they are linked to the lower arms, but I don't have a ton of room to work with there when you factor in the shock/spring. In fact there is pretty much no room except for the inside of the arm which obviously doesn't move as much as the outside (theoretically limiting the effectiveness of the bar). I saw that No Limit has their sway bars linked to the upper arms out by the ball joint. Is there any notable drawbacks to me doing the same? It leaves much more room to avoid potential bind, but I have no idea about strength limitations.

Thanks in advance!

I don't think there is any issue putting the sway bar on the upper arm. It will add some stress to that component, but everything is built stout enough that should not be a problem. Maybe just some extra bracing around the arm where it mounts for safety. In the end it will do the same job since the suspension is solid through the spindle. Just make sure whatever type of link you use can account for the upper arm moving inward as suspension compresses so it doesn't bind. Some of the end links that Ridetech sells might be the ticket.

Progress is looking good so far!

[Sbeck09]

Thanks for confirming my thoughts! I'll probably weld in an extra cross tube to the upper arm just to help distribute the load. It will make more sense when I post a photo later. I already grabbed some end links that have heims on both ends. That should allow all the adjustment and articulation needed.

I'm really trying to have the frame fab done and be paint prepping it in the next 2 weeks, but this late monsoon season is killing my progress since I don't have an enclosed shop yet.

Let it be known that if it runs before the November Goodguys event in Scottsdale, and I have functioning brakes (most likely hangup), I'll enter into All American Sunday for the first competition. It's a HUGE stretch, but you gotta have goals right?

[WallaceMFG]

No problem, here to attempt to help lol.

I might offer a suggestion, if you can hold off on doing paint work on the frame. Years ago when we were building our Chevelle, we talked to a PC place at the GoodGuys (I believe it was Glendale Powdercoating, can't recall for sure). They blasted and powder coated the whole frame for something like $400. Even if we cleaned and painted the frame, it was not worth our time when they did it for so cheap. I'm sure they will offer the same or similar deals at the GG show, they always seem to be there in the vendor area.

In my opinion, leave the frame bare and keep working on the truck to get it running & driving. Shake it down for a bit, it is much nicer to fix whatever issues may come up when you don't have to worry about paint or anything like that. When you're happy, blow it apart and get everything looking nice. But if you're attempting to get the truck done before Goodguys, by all means don't wait lol. You cal always hit the spring event too, since they are close together.

I cannot recall, what is the holdup on brakes?

[Sbeck09]

That's an incredible price if it's really the entire frame!

I really thought about not painting anything yet and just putting it all together (god knows it's tempting just so I get it running faster), but I would prefer to not need to remove the cab, bed, or engine after it's installed to drive. I fully expect to need to make changes after doing some running. That's actually one of the main reasons for paint over powder (easier to remove and re coat). I also despise rust and I know I would constantly fuss about any splashes or washing if it's not coated with something. In reality, if I run this for the next couple years, I'll end up just doing an entire custom frame. It would solve a ton of compromises and look way better. Or I'll have so many issues with what I've done here that I'll have to build a new frame next year. Haha.

I'd prefer to be driving asap since I plan to run the hell out of it all next year. I want to run in Optima and I'm already registered for the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in August. I want to have plenty of seat time before then.

I didn't talk about the brakes openly yet, but I need to change my master cylinder since I've drastically altered the calipers at both ends. Wilwood has a better deal than Baer by about 50% for one that just mounts right up and they recommend no less than 18in of vacuum at idle to be safe with a booster. My engine will probably only do about 9in at best. I can't verify that until it runs. So as much as I genuinely prefer power brakes I'll likely have to go full manual. I just don't know enough info yet to determine which size of master and if I really have to. I considered an electric vacuum pump system to make up the difference, but they are absurdly expensive kits for something so simple.

As always, suggestions and input on the topic are welcome!

[Sbeck09]

Had a burst of confidence last night so I put finishing the fuel cell mount off and dove head first into the steering arms. I've avoided this for a while, but after literally staring at the arms for 30 minutes the other night I had an epiphany of sorts.

Going back a few updates we talked about how these A body steering arms work for rear steer, but I have front steer. I did find a guy named David Lemmon (TRZ referred me to him) that made front-steer arms with Ackerman....until 5 years ago. Due to limited interest he sold what was machined and threw in the towel on that idea. I even attempted begging and told him to name a price to make a set, but he wasn't having it. Fortunately he did share some specs to help me make it happen myself.

I considered asking for his drawings to have a CNC shop knock out a pair or two, but I know what limited runs cost from working in an aerospace CNC shop so I put that idea away very quickly. Then I resolved that I would cut and weld the standard forged steel arms that I already had. They are only $65 from Summit so if I screwed up, not a big deal. I'd always regret it if I ignored this one last thing on my suspension.

Here's how it went:

The arms aim inward from the wheel which equals Anti-Ackerman. Bad for me.
167228

Silver Sharpie and a machinist"s scale to carefully mark a cut line
167229

Then the moment of truth. I attempted to cut these with my bandsaw. It very much disagreed so I grabbed the grinder with a thin disk and it zipped right through.
167230

Since the material is about an inch thick I beveled heavily to insure good weld penetration. Not an area I want to roll the dice with.
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I bolted them up to the spindles and made sure both sides matched and then tacked both heavily before removing again. I don't want to put that much heat and spatter on my nice spindles.
167232

Finally I cranked up the welder and took my time filling the channel I created before I ended up with this.
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This evening I'll use the flapper disk to clean it up and then paint them black again and you'll never know it happened. I'm pretty satisfied and the weld joint is not out on the arm under the highest stress like I was originally planning. I also got more Ackerman than I need so these can be adjusted with spacers which is a nice bonus. Lemmon suggested about 1/2" offset to the outside of the ball joints. It's a little tight to the wheel for the tie-rod stud, but it clears. If it doesn't workout somehow I'll just go with the TRZ zero ackerman steering arms for my front-steer application. What do you guys think of this solution?

[SSLance]

Nice thinking out side the box... I want to see this picture replicated with the new and improved arms...

https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167228&d=1567786860

[Sbeck09]

Nice thinking out side the box... I want to see this picture replicated with the new and improved arms...

Thanks! I think this is the best compromise especially when you add in the time and money saved from creating brand new arms.

As requested....

167245

4 spacers from now I can consider this procedure 100% done. And this is why I need to stay out of my head. So much easier to do than I thought.

[SSLance]

So simple yet so VERY effective. Nice work...

[Sbeck09]

I'm feeling pretty accomplished after this weekend. Still plenty to do, but my measurements seem to be getting pretty accurate lately. :git:

I didn't get any photos, but ended up having the perfect spacers for the steering arms so I got those ground smooth and bolted up. I actually need longer bump steer correction adapters now. Funny enough, that small problem makes me super happy. Only thing left to do on the steering now is to move the rack up. That will actually be fairly simple.

My old abrasive chop saw was having the worst time cutting in the last week and I suspect it is dying. With roll cage fab coming up fast I made the decision to buy a new one that should last a while. For those of you who haven't used one of these carbide metal chop saws....do yourself a favor and try it. I could cut .250 wall square tube in about 3-5 seconds. My abrasive saw was struggling to even start that cut. And you can see how much bigger the new saw looks even though they are both 14" blades.

167313

If you have questions about this, feel free to PM me.

Next up was finishing the fuel cell mount. I just had to add the tabs for the cell to bolt onto and then box it all in. It wasn't a difficult job, but it is one of those tasks that just eats up time. The end product was exactly what I wanted and it all fits very snug. I feel safe with how this is mounted.

167314

You can also see that I tied the heavy lower frame of the mount into the rest of the frame with a couple tubes on each side. I figure this will add just a bit more rigity to the frame overall since there isn't a lot of structure behind the cab anyway. I doubt this frame will flex at all when I'm done, which is what I want.

167315

After that I made a cardboard template of the square I needed to cut out of the bed and took careful measurements. Then based on the mounting hole positions I marked it out. It was a perfectly straight and rust free bed so I needed to cut it up. Haha.

167316

Then I could use my engine crane to pick the entire bed up and roll it over the frame. This is the same method I always use, but I finally remembered to take a photo to share. I need to whip up some kind of boom extension for this thing. I could always use a bit more reach with lighter stuff like this.

167317

Somehow it all just slipped together. No fighting, no prying, and not even an F-bomb or crushed finger. Aside from about 1/2" of trimming needed around the holes for the shock mounts, it fits flawlessly.

167318

Fuel cell pokes into the bed by exactly 4" which is how I planned this all along. I feel this slight penalty of weight being higher than mounting it low behind the suspension is worth the benefits of having this load in front of the rear suspension. It will be about 190lbs when full of fuel and I don't want that swinging out back. Beyond this, I only need to cut out holes for the rear cage bars by the shock mounts and make some kind of mounting point for the wing uprights by the back. Then the bed is done other than paint.

167319

I kept thinking I would need to modify the wheel tubs or roll the lip (still gonna do that) to make 10" wide wheels fit. Nope, these 18x10 wheels look TINY under here. So I can get pretty aggressive with tire fit if I want. 315s will be no problem at all which is what I've designed the entire truck around.

167320

I did get the battery tray mounted too, but it was getting late so I didn't remember to snap any photos. There is a lot happening pretty fast now so each update should be juicy.

[WallaceMFG]

We got one of those types of saw a few years ago, best tool we've gotten in a long time. So much nicer than abrasive discs. Just the parts not getting hot from cutting is worth it in my opinion.

We made a longer boom for our engine crane since we hated the short ones that come with them. Unfortunately, the tubing size on ours was some weird size that was not easily available, so we had to add some flat stock onto the new tube to get the dimension right lol. Not very pretty, but gets the job done.

Looking good as usual!

[Sbeck09]

Good point about the saw that I forgot to mention. You can absolutely hold your hand right on the cut as soon as it comes off the saw. It's amazing. Plus no dust. It makes chips and those don't float around into your lungs like the abrasive dust. I felt less stopped up after this weekend.

I'll have to look at making about a 3ft extension on my boom. I'm sure I can make something that sticks on with a couple bolts when needed. I know my big crane can do it better, but the little one is so much easier to maneuver. Shoot me a pic of what you made if you think about it.

[Sbeck09]

Still putting in 2-3 hours a night trying to get ready for tear down. It's all just little tasks that eat up time, but each one done keeps my enthusiasm up!

So to follow up on the bed being test fit with the fuel cell, I wanted/needed a place to mount the battery on the passenger side behind the cab. At the same time I knew that ease of access is paramount for a number of reasons that we can all think of. I settled on the outside of the frame rail at the front of the bed with it just above level with the bed floor. This way I can reach over and remove, jump, or charge whenever I need. I will make an access panel in the bed cover when I get to that part.

167430

If you are confused by my using the normal battery...don't be. It's readily available and listed for this particular truck. Plus this was brand new when I tore the truck down and cost nothing to use. If I ever need a replacement I can easily find one even in a small town. I only need to add a tie down and that's done.

Something that I have been sitting on for a while is my full serpentine drive system. I met the CVF Racing guys at SEMA last year and was super impressed with their offering for my platform especially for the price. So I ordered their stealth Wraptor kit along with my Vintage Air system so it would all match. Unfortunately I wasn't aware of the difference of standard and reverse rotation water pumps on the SBF (thanks a lot Ford) at the time. Now I'm SUPER well educated on it. Turns out that CVF doesn't have a Wraptor option for reverse rotation, but my motor is just assembled and has that timing cover. I didn't want to change engine parts so I shot a message and made a suggestion to them about whipping up the couple needed parts to make it happen. It's not something they ever get requested so their enthusiasm was.....lacking. Haha. They did end up special making the 6 components needed for me to now have the ONLY SBF reverse rotation Wraptor kit in existence. OUTSTANDING customer service! All I wanted was to return it and buy another kit already done. They went above and beyond to make me happy, probably costing them money on the sale. So please consider their kits if you need a serpentine system because they absolutely will not let you be unhappy, is built really well, and it's made in America.:twothumbs

167431

I realize this could have waited, but I wanted to add some fun parts and break up the constant cutting and welding.

I'm going to test fit the cab this weekend to make sure everything clears before the frame is disassembled and painted. So I figured now would be the time to finish patching the firewall. I freakin HATE sheetmetal work. It always reminds you that no matter how well you can weld...you cant. Haha:box2:

167432

167433

Only 4 more holes and then covering the tunnel opening for the engine setback.

Stay tuned for some photos of the cab and bed on in a couple days!:bananna2:

[WallaceMFG]

I'll have to look at making about a 3ft extension on my boom. I'm sure I can make something that sticks on with a couple bolts when needed. I know my big crane can do it better, but the little one is so much easier to maneuver. Shoot me a pic of what you made if you think about it.

I'll get you a picture next time I'm in the valley, I don't seem to have one on my computer or phone.

Progress looks good as usual! If you had not already made a deal with CVF I would have pointed you in the direction of All American Billet for an accessory drive, they are local in Phoenix. We met the owner several years ago at Good Guys and have become good friends. They have some very nice stuff as well, but the kit you got looks good too. Sometimes you just need a break from fab work to play with shiny parts, help heal the hole they left in the wallet lol.

I do find it a little strange that CVF don't have a reverse rotation kit, every other kit I've seen requires a reverse direction pump due to belt routing. Hard for me to envision a standard rotation serpentine setup haha.

[Sbeck09]

Next time you are up here shoot me a message if you would rather see this thing in person. You can share the photo then.

That is a bummer. But after the service CVF provided, I have zero regrets. I was in total shock when they said that it wasn't even a drop down option. I have a suspicion they typically sell kits to older cars or people using the older timing covers which were all standard rotation. That or people see no reverse rotation and go find a company that does make it. I was just uninformed at the time. Seriously...not a single warning on their website! Their manual adjusted system is reverse rotation, but I didn't want two belts and more **** to adjust periodically. At least I got what I wanted in the end and it does look really good. And yes, it was nice to add shiny stuff 'cause the impact to the bank account just keeps growing. Haha.

I would love to use more local companies for parts, but I always seem to find great deals from others beforehand. I'm hoping when it comes time for wheels/tires that a local company will want to work a deal with me and be represented with this thing. ;) On the other hand, I will say that Fikse has been following and liking everything on Instagram so maybe they are interested...

[Sbeck09]

Been trying to post updates here since Friday since some big stuff has been going on with this project. Unfortunately, since this site went onto the new servers last week, any network (especially my home) I'm on locks me out of the site if I try to post photos or anything like that. Not sure what's going on, but this is really frustrating. Hopefully I can post again soon....

[SSLance]

Progress looks good as usual! If you had not already made a deal with CVF I would have pointed you in the direction of All American Billet for an accessory drive, they are local in Phoenix. We met the owner several years ago at Good Guys and have become good friends. They have some very nice stuff as well, but the kit you got looks good too. Sometimes you just need a break from fab work to play with shiny parts, help heal the hole they left in the wallet lol.

I do find it a little strange that CVF don't have a reverse rotation kit, every other kit I've seen requires a reverse direction pump due to belt routing. Hard for

Nelson,

I'm considering a serp setup for my car now..is there someone I should talk to at All About Billet? Can you give an intro maybe?

Thanks,
Lance

[WallaceMFG]

Next time you are up here shoot me a message if you would rather see this thing in person. You can share the photo then.



Sure thing, I would love to see it in person sometime. I'll try to figure out my schedule, pretty hectic the next few weeks lol


Nelson,

I'm considering a serp setup for my car now..is there someone I should talk to at All About Billet? Can you give an intro maybe?

Thanks,
Lance

Lance,

I'll send you a PM.

[Sbeck09]

This should be interesting. I bet it's not what any of you were expecting....I sure wasn't.

Things have been progressing and I had another seemingly productive weekend of knocking out the little tasks that need to get wrapped so I can focus on building the cage and making all the necessary mounts for everything. I was feeling super optimistic.

First up was relocating the steering rack up to correct the bump steer that the new steering arms caused. Ended up having to raise it 1.5 inches, but it was a fairly easy task. I also like the new mounts much better than before. As a bonus, the rack is adjustable with washer shims too.

167784

Also, looking back under the truck there I feel really pleased with where everything is. Looks like this is turning out the be a fantastic setup for street and track use as far as clearances go. Double duty is always a compromise, but I like this one.

So to measure my for the cage tubing and the start on that project the cab needed to go back on with the new mounts. The new gantry crane made that a fairly safe and simple task even by myself. The result was a first look at the real stance of the truck. Oh. My. God. I LOVE how this looks all low to the ground.

So then I was really ready to get an idea of how it looks so I ran over and grabbed the core support and fenders. Forgot how heavy these are. Definitely something I'd like to remedy down the road. Here is the result:

167785

So now I'm so pumped that I'm calling my buddies and texting everyone pics to show that I'm killing it.:seizure: My idea is really coming together! Until I walk around the side of the truck and look across...

167786

Yup you see it right away too. Somehow I setup the entire front suspension too far rearward. After measuring, it was a whopping 3 inches too far back front the center of the wheel opening! I had a difficult time finding the original axle center line due to the TTB suspension not being symmetrical, but wow this is bad. So I figure I should see how much adjustment I really have in my lower arms (knowing this is not the right way).

167787

A little more forward, but not close enough. And then if you look down at the lower arm geometry it gets worse.

167788

So I walked away for a few hours to think it through and weigh options between cutting and moving everything I have forward or starting over with a new design. I spent this "thinking" time measuring for the cage tubes. Admittedly I am mad at myself for being this far out of spec, but I'm also frustrated because I've already built and rebuilt this suspension. I was so glad to be done with this task. :banghead:

Ironically, I have had conversations with some of you where I mentioned that I would do it differently if I was starting over now. Guess what....I'm starting over now. The best solution I can come up with is the leave the body panels in position and scratch build a totally different lower subframe with more traditional style lower A arms that will slide under the frame where it actually goes. I think I will also move to the same steering rack as No Limit, Mustang II, etc. which is out of the 80's Thunderbird. It is slightly narrower, cheaper, and mounts better. This way the entire lower will be built square to itself and I can simply measure and install where it belongs just like I did with my IRS. That worked so perfectly as a system. Upper control arms/mounts and spindles will be unchanged other than moving it all forward to match the new placement correctly.

My design will be roughly based around the format of the C5/6 Corvette subframe since that's a simple square shape with robust mounts, but of course it will all be built by yours truly. So if you have a suggestion, idea, or tip speak up quick because now is your chance to chime in and help. I've been ordering parts already hoping to not lose much time to this. I'm getting it right this time damnit. Lance even let me coerce him into coming by to talk it over with me. I feel more confident about the basic design now. He also provided some good pointers to help with packaging everything better while making sure each part is adjustable.

Can I get an AMEN that the forum is letting me post again?!?!:headbang:

[Sbeck09]

I've been staying super busy trying to knock out this newest front suspension. As annoyed as I am that I can't move on from this task yet, I am really liking the new design much better.

It all started with me seeing some of the builds on here that utilize the C4/5/6 front suspension. I like how simple yet effective it can be. Since I want the front and rear to match in width plus I have specific wants in clearances, I of course opted to build the entire system myself. Still not sure if that's the smart choice at this point. :hammer:

Never deterred by my prior mistakes I laid out a very rough design on what I would be going for and texted Lance that I wanted someone else's input before I do all this work.

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So that's all he had to go on when he arrived in Digital Barney the next morning. We had a solid discussion about a few ideas and things he felt I should include or at least consider in my design. It was SUPER helpful.

Then I dug out the plasma cutter that my neighbor still doesn't want back yet and used my CAD pieces (cardboard aided design) to make all 8 uprights.

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And after that couple hours of cutting and grinding we get the desired result

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Then I lined them all up in order with the heims as spacers since I want this to all fit super precisely. The all thread guarantees no binding along the pivot axis and made alignment of the plates a breeze.

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And finally I tacked everything together nice and square. Those rusty rods on the outside are exactly the width that I want my pivot point. They are just temporary to ensure that everything is perfect. We definitely do NOT trust my measurements. Haha

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That measurement was due to the change in steering rack. Which was something I talked about way back with my original design. Seriously worth it. So much cheaper to replace than the S197 rack and readily available. From my research this is apparently the same rack used in the decent Mustang II setups, No Limit Wide Ride, and a few that looked like good designs from other companies. It is 6" narrower than the old rack so now was the time to make the change.

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After that was tacked up and I checked to make sure everything was still accurate I was ready to attack control arms. We want 67.5" for the width between where the wheel sits against the rotor hats. You'll see an additional hole there from when I forgot that the spindle does extend past the ball joint pivot (I was tired that day). I used the new sub-frame as my jig since it already has the arm width set. Worked perfectly.

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Then I added some plate in the middle and 2 supports which should ensure that these arms are rigid. Seriously...they are way beefier and almost identical in weight to my last arm design. You can see how much different this is. I think we can all agree that this was a good setback.

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I did get the shock mounts added too, but must have forgotten to snap a photo. I wanted them to cool overnight so I can paint them tomorrow before they rust. No, I didn't add the sway bar mount yet, but I have no idea where it will end up. So rather than dealing with rust, I'll just grind off the small section of paint when I weld those on and repaint once it's finished.

One issue I need you guys to help with is my Tie-rod adjusters. I can't find one off the shelf that is long enough with the correct thread on each side. Can one of you whip one up in aluminum or point me to someone/company who can? That's my only stopping point before this new suspension is 100% done.

[SSLance]

I know it sucks having to cut all that stuff off that you worked so hard on Sean, but I think you'll like this revision a WHOLE lot better once it's all in place.

[Sbeck09]

Yeah now that I'm seeing the new setup come together I'm excited to see it completed and I'm definitely liking it all better. This was something that probably did need to happen anyway.

Speaking of that, yesterday I moved the motor mounts up to the frame which allowed me to cut out my V1 cross member. Poor truck looked so naked without a front suspension. I was able to roughly test fit the new subframe.

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Yes it hangs lower, but is still an inch higher than the lowest point of the frame. The control arm mounting holes are 1/2" higher than before for better roll center at ride height. WAY more clearance around the oil pan now. I did cut the plates so they extend to the inside of the frame. I am going to use that to help with eliminating flexing of the frame rail under load after this is in. There is a plan.

If I had started with this, I would have mounted the engine about an inch lower, but I'm not changing all that now since I'm happy with how the drive train is placed. It's already almost 2" lower than stock anyway and I'm not about to redo the headers/exhaust again.

I'll do my prep work on the bottom of the frame this evening and get ready to really mount everything in. The control arms were painted yesterday and will be fully cured Tuesday afternoon. I'm so excited to see them assembled! Still trying to find a solution for my tie-rod adjusters. I might make a super simple version just for install purposes out of nuts and tube.

[WallaceMFG]

Wow, this looks great! It was a setback, but I agree it is much better now.

For tie rod adjusters, Ridetech makes some nice billet ones, we have some on our Chevelle. I would look on their site if you know what thread you have to work with, or they can probably make some if you know what you need.

[Sbeck09]

For tie rod adjusters, Ridetech makes some nice billet ones, we have some on our Chevelle. I would look on their site if you know what thread you have to work with, or they can probably make some if you know what you need.

They were one of the first I looked at. Ridetech has treated me so well and sold me off-catalog parts 4 times already so I'd love to give them the business. Unfortunately, they had nothing close that I saw. Maximum Motorsports has a kit that is closer, but still not quite long enough. I'm gonna ask the machine shop down the street if they can knock it out for a reasonable price. It's just a 1" dia, 11" long aluminum rod with 9/16-18 RH on one end and 5/8-18 LH on the other. How hard can it be?

For now you guys will get to see what happens when I resort to Shade Tree Engineering to keep things moving.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

How will your steering linkage look? Also what is the width between your lower control arm mounts ? New revision looks great!

[Sbeck09]

How will your steering linkage look? Also what is the width between your lower control arm mounts ? New revision looks great!

Just like any other power steering rack with the standard inner tie rods and the Female adjuster sleeve connecting to a heim at the spindle (same layout as I had before with all new components now). Basically a straight line like any bump steer kit. The sleeve allows really easy toe adjustment.

Width of the inner pivots is 24.25" on center.

Glad you guys like this setup too! I bet it looks so good on the ground with everything fitting properly this time. I'm hoping to see that by the end of the week since I have a work trip early next week. I'd like to be able to start on the cage this weekend before I leave.

[Sbeck09]

False alarm boys! I just mocked up the entire lower section. Oh. My. God. I'm soooooo freakin happy with the results and this is SUPER rough on positioning. All I did was assemble the arms and eyeball it in the frame with it all supported by the ATV jack.

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Would you believe that it works?! I mean I do, but still...4th time is the charm apparently.:naughty:

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On that note we are clear to measure carefully and install everything permanently. This truck is gonna hurt some feelings in the corners, I just know it! The only issue I found is the little steering limiter built into my steering arms, but that's ok because I can whack that off with the grinder real quick. These racks are internally limited anyway unlike the stock steering of the A bodies.

The reason I say false alarm is because I still can't do math. My tie-rod adjusters don't need to be 11". I just need about 7". I'm sure someone has that with the threads I stated above. I'll look at some Foxbody angle kits since those cars use the same tie-rods.

LET'S GOOOOOO!:drive:

[WallaceMFG]

This might be what you need. Only thing they do not list is the total length, but I'm sure one call to MM will get that answer.

https://www.maximummotorsports.com/Bumpsteer-kit-1979-93-Mustang-with-SN95-control-arms-bolt-through-style-P452.aspx

I almost bought this setup when I had the SN95 arms on my Rustang before scrapping that and going back to Fox parts. They are enough longer that they might get you what you need. You could also swap the inner tire rods for ones from an SN95, they are quite a bit longer than the Fox ones. But they are metric thread so you'd have to get a outer tie rod to match.

[Sbeck09]

Totally forgot about the SN95 rods threading right in since the base rack is physically identical. According to Flaming River (love all the data they share) the SN95 tie-rods are 1.5" longer per side. That is definitely an improvement, but if those MM adjusters are close to 7 inches I'll just go that route for simplicity. I was actually planning to call them shortly to see if they would say how long those are. I also found some from a drift angle kit that look nice and long as well. I bet I'll find a solution here in a day or so. Worst case, Flaming River will do a custom length set of tie-rods. I just don't like having wear parts that are custom made.

[Sbeck09]

I did a bunch of calling about the bump steer kits and the longest adjuster I can find is 6". I could do 6.5", but I'm not comfortable with less than that. I thought about buying different tie-rods, which would work, but I have to buy the adjusters anyway so that's $150-200 no matter what and the tie-rods are another $50. I'll just see if the local machine shop can knock out the adjusters for a fair price first.

I whipped up some dummy adjusters real quick with scrap tube and 2 nuts (thank you Amazon for 24hr delivery on special threads) so I can work on making the rack mount and hold the spindles straight. Totally works for this, but I would never consider driving with these. I'm not even sure I want to set it on the ground with something so minimal.

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Now for what you've all be waiting for...upper and lower arms and the new cradle are solidly tacked in. WHEW!

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So 2 weeks of me overthinking and stressing little things resulted in exactly what I wanted. The 2 biggest things remaining is to come up with a new upper shock mount and make the steering rack mounts. The rest of what it needs is all related to finish welding and adding support plates.

Now to build a roll cage. Never thought I would say this, but compared to building a suspension from scratch, the cage will be a nice break. Haha.

Anyone able to measure the width of a ridetech coilover bearing with standard spacers?

[CamaroAJ]

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sale-7-5-Steel-Swedged-Tube-5-8-18-LH-9-16-18-RH,93591.html

[Sbeck09]

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sale-7-5-Steel-Swedged-Tube-5-8-18-LH-9-16-18-RH,93591.html

Wow that's a great find! Too bad it looks like they discontinued that one :throw:

Thanks for sharing. I'll have to look at see if any other circle track suppliers have it.

[CamaroAJ]

Wow that's a great find! Too bad it looks like they discontinued that one :throw:

Thanks for sharing. I'll have to look at see if any other circle track suppliers have it.

The part number is listed. Call the company that made it and see if they can make you a set.

[Sbeck09]

The part number is listed. Call the company that made it and see if they can make you a set.

Good tip, we now have a firm solution. I'll share more when it arrives.

[Sbeck09]

Making steady progress!

Last night I got the upper shock mounts tacked back on. I like this setup much better how it ties the A plates into the frame better. I'll still need to add some additional support to feel totally comfortable.

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I have to give all the credit to Lance for my sway bar decisions. He provided excellent insight which resulted in what I believe to be optimal placement for my chassis. It's tucked up slightly above the bottom of the new subframe and just in front of the oil pan sump. All located behind the front suspension so no steering interference.

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And just to see what all of the components look like together I grabbed a caliper. This is all going to look so awesome once I weld it out and paint everything!

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So there you have it. Just about done fabbing the front and onto the cage next. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks we are disassembling for final welding and paint.:bananna2:

[Sbeck09]

Didn't have as much time as I wanted to work on the truck this weekend, but I got stuff done so I guess that counts. I have a work trip to fly out for tomorrow morning, but I'll be back in time to do some work Tuesday night.

We left off a couple days ago where I had just test fitted the sway bar. I got worried about tire clearance at full lock so I mocked everything up with the driver's side wheel/tire turned all the way left. This was also my first chance to see how sharp I can turn. I believe this will be fine to start off. If I want more angle later we can revisit the steering arms again.

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Miles of room if you look at the rear of the tire vs the splines on the bar. And remember that we won't be adding any additional backspacing with wider wheels. That will all go outboard.

Then I needed to shorten the arms and drill the holes for endlink bolts. So 5" chopped off and 4 holes later I had the perfect result. The second hole is in case I want to try adjusting the bar firmer later. We will try the softest setting first (yes I know we want a stiff bar Lance. lol)

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I spent a while looking things over and generally thinking about how best to mount a bar that is trying to twist itself with forces potentially approaching 900+ lbs. Then I happened to see some 1/4" thick angle iron sitting there and it seemed like a reasonable solution.

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I'll definitely add some triangle gussets to help, but it's pretty solid even just tacked. I didn't snap a pic, but I have room to go to a thicker bar later if I want. I also made sure that the slotted holes on the mounts slide the bar forward for that as well. It's like a symphony there.

Since I couldn't decide how I wanted to mount the links to the control arms I turned my attention to the steering rack. After looking at a TON of pics online of many different IFS setups with similar racks I decide to use some heavy wall square tube with a "cap" that holds the nut without a wrench. It worked perfectly.

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All I need is my new adjusters to show up, but I can now move on while I wait. You may notice that the rack is tilted backwards. That is on purpose. It gave more room for the mounting nut without modifying any structure, better aligned the arms with the spindles, and gave much needed room for routing my oil lines. I got the idea from a bunch of weld on IFS systems that are done that way and I liked it. It also moved my steering shaft 1/2" further from the headers which was nice.



So with that done I started back on the endlink mounts. Literally 2 hours of playing with different ideas later I think I hit one that checks all the boxes. Plenty of range of motion, ease of adjustment/removal, strong enough, and looks good.

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It's not super pretty yet, but it's made with 1/4" wall tube and plate with a 1/2" grade 8 bolt. I have seen lesser mounts on aftermarket control arms hold up on many cars.

So with that, every single component on my custom made front suspension system is there. All that is left is disassembly, finish welding, and paint. That will wait until I do the firewall mods and cage since everything is being disassembled, welded fully, and painted at that point. Feels kinda weird already not having to spend most of my brain power on suspension theory. I've always had something to do on it until now, but I'm beyond excited to make progress elsewhere.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Do you have good tire clearance when you turn right at the adjuster sleeve?

[Sbeck09]

Do you have good tire clearance when you turn right at the adjuster sleeve?

Barely clears, but it is crazy close. Luckily these tubes are about 1/8" larger in diameter than my new solid aluminum adjusters will be so I should be ok. I'm going to be watching that very closely. Yet another reason that I wish I had better steering arm options.

[Savage]

I have really enjoyed following along with your thread! This is an awesome build! I appreciate that you have shared your trials and tribulations as you have progressed through the project!

I look forward to seeing track clips of the truck in the future!

[Sbeck09]

I have really enjoyed following along with your thread! This is an awesome build! I appreciate that you have shared your trials and tribulations as you have progressed through the project!

I look forward to seeing track clips of the truck in the future!

Thank you, that means a lot! I hope that people potentially afraid to start an advanced project, in case they screw up, see that it's ok to make a mistake and redo it over again with lessons learned. 4x if you're me. Haha.

I've been working on this thing every evening so updates are coming. I'm just trying to make sure it has good stuff for you guys.

[Sbeck09]

I've been busy as ever on this thing so I owe you guys an update.

Since I completed tacking all the front suspension onto the truck I was able to move onto prepping the cab for a cage and starting that whole process. At the same time I was waiting for my custom aluminum tie-rod adjusters. Shawn over at Panther Frameworx in NY whipped them up. Super cool guy and he knew exactly what I wanted since he and his son are doing a PT style mustang. All he needed was the thread on each end and the overall length. He did perfect. The front end ALMOST looks like something I bought, but we all know better. Haha.

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In the cab I needed to tackle the firewall mod first since I was expecting the cage to make it harder to access than right now. Have I mentioned how much I hate sheet metal work? I've tried to learn to like it, but it's not working. Nonetheless I made it through and it meets my needs. Moved the main section back 2.75". And that's only to make room for sensors and fuel lines. The engine itself didn't really have fit issues even though I moved it back almost 4" from stock. Sure it's ugly as hell, but I'll just lay some thick paint over it and you should never notice it under the dash.

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Side note: I don't have any photos of the incident, but I didn't pay attention to having a sheet over some engine parts and a rogue spark caught it on fire while welding the firewall back together. It melted a $150 sensor and 2 small wires on my brand new engine harness. I'm kicking myself in the ass for that one, but luckily it wasn't worse and I was able to quickly put it out.

Bonus tip for you guys. I follow Kyle on The Fab Forums Youtube channel and a few weeks ago he shared the stuff call Ram Board. It's a floor protector for moving appliances. It is basically slightly thicker than cereal boxes so it makes fantastic templates. 3ftx50ft was only $30 at Lowes. I HIGHLY recommend it.

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I was excited to finally get to bending up tubes for the cage after that. Once I was ready to prep the floor for where the 4 points would attach I realized that some of the factory sound mat would need to come out. No big deal. But being me it can't be that simple. After noticing that most of it was cracked anyway and knowing that I'm spraying in Lizard Skin soon I figured I should just remove it all. So 2 evenings of scraping later it was clean enough to move on. All told it was just shy of 10lbs that got removed and I've heard the Lizard skin is pretty light so the weight should be a wash.

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THEN I could actually get the cage started. Remember, I'm following the general guidelines for cages of this weight class, but I'm not building it to anything specific. No classes I can ever see myself running require any cage at all. I have seen how easily these trucks crumple in wrecks so I just want an extra barrier. I've added almost 3x the horsepower and I'm making it handle, but I know I'll be pushing myself to be faster every time out. Sometimes it gets away from you so this is for those moments.

As it stands this was the 4pt structure

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Right now I have it dropped through the floor to weld the top of the tubes and spray some paint before it is welded to the floor permanently. I also got the glass all removed, but forgot to snap a pic.

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Hopefully I'll be able to share an update in a few days with the cage and additional tubes in their final place. I want to build the seat brackets so I can properly sit and make racecar noises. :drive1:

[Savage]

Awesome!

Would have been nice to get that X brace all the way in the corner on the driver side, but looks like you are running out of real estate with the seat where its at.


Will you be sandwiching the body and attaching the cage to the frame?

[Sbeck09]

Awesome!

Would have been nice to get that X brace all the way in the corner on the driver side, but looks like you are running out of real estate with the seat where its at.


Will you be sandwiching the body and attaching the cage to the frame?

Yeah I can definitely understand now why extended cabs are the foundation of most race trucks. There just isn't much room when you need cage tubes too. It's a sacrifice I'll happily make to know this thing won't fold up easily if I get carried away. I saw a photo of one of these trucks after a roll over a few months back and it wasn't pretty. The top folded in like a tin can. Good thing my center of gravity has moved waaayyyy down.

Exactly. I have roll bar connectors that will allow the body to still be removable, but when bolted together they channel any cage loads directly into the frame. It was important to me that the truck be able to come apart just like from the factory should anything ever need to be serviced or replaced. Once this part is done I will verify the cab is centered on the frame and make those. I'll be sure to share photos here to better show how it works.

[Sbeck09]

Haven't lost any steam yet! I make sure to accomplish at least 1 thing a day so it's been awesome to see it all come together little by little.

First task was to remove the glass. Rear window was a 5 minute job since they just pop out of the rubber gasket. Windshield was a pain. I tried to save it, but I got carried away and cracked it a few times. So much for keeping the original.:hammer:

I slapped some primer and paint on the top of the cage after fully welding all the tubes before I got the main cage lifted back up into place and welded it to the plates and then floor. I would say it's easier to build a cage for a car than a truck after crawling around trying to get in various positions for welding this.

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Then I could reinstall the steering column to setup for building seat mounts. They are super basic, but more than strong enough. I went with the least amount of height that would allow me to see over the hood.

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I considered making them bolt in. Welding was quicker and easier, plus this actually makes the floor stronger so I'd say this is the safer choice. The seat mounts unbolt so that's good enough for what I need. I added tubes under the seat to brace side to side and hold the harness sub-mounts, but I don't have any pics yet.

Rinse and repeat for the passenger side. The results were well worth it.

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I promise that's my happy face. It was just late and I was tired at that point. The harness is in since I needed to make mounting points. I got SUPER lucky and the clip in anchors threaded straight into the factory seat belt holes. Easily saved me about 2 hours of fab work.

I made sure the cab was perfectly centered on the frame before I started on tubes outside of the cab. The rear bars were the easiest target. I've also been wanting to add these for a while since I like how it looks. Notice that I am able to reuse the factory rear glass and seal. I didn't want to pass the tubes through the window in order to keep the cab sealed better. Careful measurements rewarded me with mission accomplished.:twothumbs

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You can see the shiny roll bar connectors there. Everything outside of the cab will be detachable so I can still pull the cab or bed if needed.

Next up is the engine bay bars that tie back into the dash bar. These are going to be tricky with clearing braking equipment and getting through 2 layers on the firewall. Wish me luck!

[Sbeck09]

Seeing that it is raining here (total nuisance in AZ) I figure it's a good time to update.

Like I said previously it was time to do the two cage bars in the engine bay. It was a good chance to learn some offset bending better with my bender. I'm really liking this Rogue Fabrication M600 the more I use it. I will also say that I spent the time to measure and articulate the steering/suspension to make sure this bar routing would never interfere with the tire. I have more than enough clearance.

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I would have liked to pass these a bit higher on the firewall, but there is an air cavity there that I couldn't find a good way to pass through accurately without creating a TON of extra work to reseal. You can also see the use of tube connectors again allowing these to be removed almost entirely.

Before adding any other tubes to make cab entry/exit harder I wanted to add in some of the creature comforts. I decided my Vintage Air unit was a good place to start. Unfortunately my firewall modifications made it a bit trickier to fit without killing passenger leg room.

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This looks super intrusive, but it will actually all hide behind the new dash with some room to spare. I could have gone with the smaller unit and been very happy, but when I ordered this all I could think was, "we get over 120 degrees every summer." The first year I lived in AZ I was broke and drove a car without A/C. I'm not doing that again. So my logic was to buy the biggest unit they offer and I can enjoy this beast all year. Haha. I will also give Vintage Air credit for designing a really nice system. It was easy to understand where everything goes and mounting is super simple. I don't know why I don't see more of these installed on this site.

This now allowed me to understand the best place for a hose bulkhead. I know people have differing opinions on using a bulkhead or not, but I am a fan especially on a vehicle used in racing.

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Since I don't have a fender liner to run stuff like this securely I plan to run these along the top of the frame there. I can use some High Temp sleeves to protect the hoses from header heat.

If you are wondering what the black box is for, that's an aluminum oil catch can. It has internal baffling with enough air volume to handle high RPM crankcase venting. With it mounted here I can easily drain it with minimal mess.

While I was at it I decided to mount some of the various fluid tanks that will be needed since I had them and the welder right there.

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The black tank is for power steering and the raw aluminum is a combo coolant expansion and catch. You can also see where I chose to mount the coil on the passenger side (it's safe from major heat sources). I didn't get the windshield washer tank mounted, but that will be easy later. My favorite thing is that this keeps the hose routing efficient and won't risk leaks if someone hits my fender.

Final fabrication piece before I pull the body off for frame painting was the cage to frame connectors. These disconnect as well allowing everything to be removed like stock. I was surprised how much stiffness this added to everything too.

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With that, I set the truck down on it's own weight. This is the first time this front suspension has been on the ground. I'm SUPER happy with this new design. Added bonus of having the engine mounts on the inner frame was that it now stopped any remaining flex from the upper control arm loads.

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Shocks are being built and the brake master is ordered. As soon as I have a dry evening the cab comes off and I'll tackle the final welding of the frame before that is painted. The idea is inside of the next 2 weeks I should be doing final assembly of the chassis with all the new goodies you guys haven't seen yet. When the paint is dry and the frame is a roller, the cab goes on and it's time to plumb, wire, and FIRE.

[frink84]

Warning, got a lot of questions. Not trying to start anything, just trying to be safe.

On the cage disconnects everywhere, what is their strength compared to the cage itself? Are they rated for rollcage use? I see em used for bumpers, cross members, door bars, etc but not in the primary cage structure. I'd be woried about the body/cage coming off like a K'NEX in a wreck.

The way you go from the body to the frame also seems to me to be lacking strength in case of a roll-over. I'm no expert but I would look at what the offroad dudes do. Seems to me that the frame mount would rip out. Maybe some load distributing plates or similar to get better attachment. I see a lot of sliders for crawler trucks and they always do a plate to the frame instead of just tube to frame. Gotta be a reason!

[Sbeck09]

I'm really glad to you brought this up. I've been getting a surprising amount of comments/messages everywhere I share this build so I want to address these exact points.

For starters, this is NOT an FIA legal cage. It's really not any kind of legal. The tubing is 1 size too thin and there is bends/breaks (connectors are considered a "break") in tubes that are absolutely not allowed under their rules. FIA is largely considered the general standard for cage design across multiple sanctioning bodies, and then there is additional rules from there depending on what racing you do with who. I accepted that when I designed this cage and ordered the material. PLEASE don't use this as a guide if you are planning to build a competition cage. I consider this a "street" cage. I only added it because throwing a 600hp farm truck around (even after all this work) has risks that the stock sheet metal can't even hope to handle. If you see wrecks with these trucks the sheet metal might as well not even be there. It's scary to look at. That's why I built some kind of cage rather than nothing at all. You'd need about double the amount of tubes to be legal along with some different routing. Targa Truck is a prime example of what you SHOULD DO for competition. He keeps his Instagram up to date with progress and is building everything in spec.

The spreader plates you are talking about are super helpful at load distribution. That's why I added them anywhere I landed a tube on sheet metal. It's not uncommon to see the tubes welded directly to the frame as I did when there is sufficient enough "meat". Sure a plate doesn't hurt there too, but that all goes back to the cage already having weaker sections than that. That won't be the failure point.

The connectors are definitely the weak point of the tubes that have them, but I did it to allow all the body to be removed like stock. In an impact the bolts that hold them together usually shear off. These are best for attaching sacrificial components like you pointed out. It worked like a charm for my purposes as you can see here.

169546

Why wouldn't I go full competition cage? 2 biggest factors in the motorsports world: Time and money. It would take a lot more time and a good chunk more money to make it correct. I've built those cages so I feel confident in my assessment. See Exhibit A:

169547

1992 E36 sedan, GTS3 rules, gutted doors, side exhaust, lexan side and rear windows, etc. Never failed tech at NASA, BMW CCA, and SCCA. You get the point.

The truck's cage design allows full retention of factory glass and body panels so there is additional comfort/simplicity there. The other factor that nobody ever considers is that when you have a full competition cage while street driving (no helmet activities), those bars become more danger than help. So between crawling over tubes to get seated and people that can't drive down a street without looking at Facebook, I didn't want all that "safety" when street driving which is something I want to do often with this truck. I already have plans semi-in motion to build a true competition car after this truck is sorted out. This was built for fun and will only ever compete in street car classes without a cage requirement. And in autocross you'll see plenty of cars that have no cage, but really need at least a cage like this or much more. It's built safe enough to pass tech and prevent some intrusion in moderate collisions.

I hope this doesn't seem combative. It's not meant to be at all. I know the general consensus around here has been to either build a legal cage or don't even bother. I've learned sooooo much from you all here and questions like these have helped me fix things before it's an issue. This is just an area that was very closely thought out. Thank you for asking. I hope this makes more sense now. If anyone has further questions/concerns feel free to voice them openly. I like that my thread has been a place for open discussion and learning for everyone. That's always my goal.

[frink84]

Frankly, it doesn't make more sense now. I'm more confused. People are asking so many questions because it very much goes against the grain. I for one, have discussed this cage build with a few race car buddies to make sure I'm not crazy, as I'm certainly no expert. They all agree there is a lot wrong going on there. This isn't an attack on you by any means, it is making sure you have the right assumptions and expectations. Sure, they look at it from more of a racer's perspective, but the feedback is valid. A few key takeaways. Again, none of this is an attack, just feedback:

"Normally what we've done in the past on cars and truck where the frame doesn't reach the outside of the body is, we build outriggers, usually 2x3 or 2x4 box steel at a 45 or more angle, gusset the **** out of the contact point of the frame"

"The more contact points the cage has with the frame or integral points of the chassis, the less gusseting it needs."

"I'm used to seeing 8 or more contact points to the frame, not 4"

"The connectors on the side of the frame, they are at an extreme angle and will shear off the frame in a second when it rolls."

"I hate those quick disconnects because if that chassis twists, even in the slightest, you will never get them back together."

You admit that the cage is too thin to pass any tech, that it will shear off in a collision, that it is routed to stay away from an un-helmeted driver/passenger. Then at the same time, you claim the cage is there to protect you in case of collision.

I believe its much more likely you'll smack your head/body on the cage in any significant street collision (you move a LOT more than you think when not in a 5/6-point harness. There is a high chance that the cab will shear off the beak points, which introduces a greater risk of one of those now pointy ends causing more harm than if they had not been there in the first place.

[Sbeck09]

Frankly, it doesn't make more sense now. I'm more confused. People are asking so many questions because it very much goes against the grain. I for one, have discussed this cage build with a few race car buddies to make sure I'm not crazy, as I'm certainly no expert. They all agree there is a lot wrong going on there. This isn't an attack on you by any means, it is making sure you have the right assumptions and expectations. Sure, they look at it from more of a racer's perspective, but the feedback is valid. A few key takeaways. Again, none of this is an attack, just feedback:

"Normally what we've done in the past on cars and truck where the frame doesn't reach the outside of the body is, we build outriggers, usually 2x3 or 2x4 box steel at a 45 or more angle, gusset the **** out of the contact point of the frame"

"The more contact points the cage has with the frame or integral points of the chassis, the less gusseting it needs."

"I'm used to seeing 8 or more contact points to the frame, not 4"

"The connectors on the side of the frame, they are at an extreme angle and will shear off the frame in a second when it rolls."

"I hate those quick disconnects because if that chassis twists, even in the slightest, you will never get them back together."

You admit that the cage is too thin to pass any tech, that it will shear off in a collision, that it is routed to stay away from an un-helmeted driver/passenger. Then at the same time, you claim the cage is there to protect you in case of collision.

I believe its much more likely you'll smack your head/body on the cage in any significant street collision (you move a LOT more than you think when not in a 5/6-point harness. There is a high chance that the cab will shear off the beak points, which introduces a greater risk of one of those now pointy ends causing more harm than if they had not been there in the first place.

Thanks for getting additional outside feedback! I don't have the same reliable resources here that I did when I worked/lived in Plano, TX. I miss having so much knowledge a short drive away.

-I've seen this a couple times on other builds, but never near a 45 degree angle. Makes perfect sense that it would be much stronger that way, but if you look at the space provided I physically can not achieve that angle or close. I also wasn't expecting this to be able to survive the force of a full rollover. They are intended to add rigidity to the cab and frame by eliminating body mount flex and chassis flex under suspension load (tested this and it worked great). If someone can show me a way to do this with less angle in my application I'd be surprised and thankful. I'll do more digging to see if I can find better examples.

-No disagreement here. That's what I've always been taught. More contact=more strength.

-Technically I have 8 points for just the cab. My 4 outriggers and the original 4 body mounts. I get the intention behind this statement and that would usually include the engine bay tubes and rear down bars (making this a 12 point), but I won't include mine since they are removable.

-Let's all hope we never find out, but I can see that possibility. Again, I'm not sure how to make the angle less severe and still contact the cage and frame in a straight line. A surprising number of trucks I see doing road racing/autox with cages have a 90 degree bend/joint from the cage to the side of the frame. I'd say that's worse than my design (neither is great).

-Yeah I'm a bit worried about this too, but couldn't come up with any other way to allow the body to disconnect. I figure if the frame is twisted in a way that doesn't allow these to line up, something more is wrong. Maybe I'll eat my words on this soon. You know I'll be the first to publicly admit it if it happens.

-They do shear in severe side loads at that joint, yes. When the load is in line with the tube, the design of the connector allows it to remain surprisingly strong. No, not as good as a solid tube, but I'm not trying to say it is. This is why the only tubes with connectors are outside of the cab. There are no bars with breaks near an occupant. When I say this cage adds safety I mean that as it prevents this thin sheet metal from folding in on itself like many of them do if someone T-bones you in an intersection or you smack a pole. Think of this like the 4pt bars in lots of HPDE cars. It's a little extra something, but far from the benefit of a cage. It adds some chassis rigidity and gives a safe place for harnesses, but not much more.

-This is why I have less tubes and they are routed further from occupants along with only having 6pt harnesses since that's legal for street driving here. In order for my body to contact a cage tube, my seat and harness would both have to fail spectacularly. I think a 3 inch harness strap stretches like 3 inches or something crazy in a crash (don't recall exactly but it was a lot). As for the cab shearing off, the stock body mounts seem to do better than I would have expected in pretty bad wrecks and they are still present (brand new). I'm ultimately still relying on them to do their same job now since the outer tubes aren't real cab mounts.

[Sbeck09]

As much as I love the holidays and the paid vacation time that comes with it, I get slowed down on projects every year and this year hasn't been an exception. I've squeezed in and hour or two everywhere I can.

The primary focus has been on finish welding the frame. This proved to be a wayyy bigger time suck than I expected. All the little gussets here and there, plus running out of shield gas and wire doesn't help the pace.

My starting point was blowing the whole frame apart, as you guys saw that starting in my previous post.

170505

170506

To get that torn down was actually not that bad. Essentially took 1 full day on a Sunday. This feels like a win to me because I tried to make this truck as simple to work on as possible. Example: removing 4 bolts and a ball joint stud allows each lower control arm to come off. remove 2 bolts and a stud to release the upper control arm. So reassembly should actually go pretty quickly.

As of today the frame sits about 98% ready to paint.

170507

I had to redo All my upper shock mounts after attempting to test fit my shocks. Luckily this didn't take too long and looks better too. I knew this might happen so it didn't really bother me much. That pocket in the frame allows the upper control arm to pivot when I have anti-dive added with the arms slotted down. It will make more sense when you see it assembled.

170508

Shoutout to Lance and Ridetech. They worked together with my measurements to create a valve/spring combo for what the truck is expected to weigh without breaking the bank. I'm so excited to see them installed for good. Ignore the spring perch being barely threaded on. This allowed me to cycle from full droop to ride height and make sure my new mounts had no interference without trying to compress the spring.:twothumbs

170516

Ironically I've avoided doing the battery hold down and it ended up being pretty easy to knock out. I was overthinking it at first because I wanted a simple design that wasn't fussy or took a bunch of tools to remove. Plus I didn't want to need to crawl under the truck either. I've seen that on a few other builds and doesn't look fun to deal with.

170509

1 bolt and it is secure enough to shake the entire frame by grabbing the battery itself. There is a bend on the slotted side of the hold down and I couldn't get to come loose under tension even with a pry bar. I'd say this is solid.

If you're wondering why I didn't go for an Optima, I didn't feel a need to replace a brand new battery (5 starts before tear down and under warranty still). I can also find this in basically any town at an auto parts store or Walmart since it is the exact model for this truck when stock. It's a lighter weight battery than even my old 4cyl Altima uses too.

As a preview, here is some parts I already prepped, primed, and painted. Kinda wish I had done this when they first arrived. By leaving all this new metal uncoated for the last couple months it got light surface rust. I hate rust.

170511

Come January the hustle is back on to get everything reassembled for good. It's time to breathe life into this overpriced yard ornament and make it do something cool.:headbang:

[Jaymzz]

Looking good! You just reminded me I need to call Ride Tech also for my Blazer.

[Sbeck09]

Looking good! You just reminded me I need to call Ride Tech also for my Blazer.

Thanks! Hopefully I don't have anymore surprise changes to make. It always eat up at least a couple days of work time.

I'm super happy with how Ridetech has treated me over and over. I've made some really odd requests from their team and they come through every time. Lucky for me, Lance handled the legwork for getting the actual shocks built. At this point I don't think I will ever consider another shock company when I'm looking for Eye to Eye coilovers. Hell they even include a dyno chart for the shocks! When I was sponsored by, and then worked for Vorshlag, we were known for Terry's maniacal pursuit of quality shocks/struts so I was able to learn some things to watch out for. These check all the right boxes for me. The only thing I would have done differently is the get the TQ (triple adjustable), but I didn't have that left in the budget right now.

[Sbeck09]

Figured I would bring you all up to speed real quick. The next update should be much juicier, but there is always a process that includes the less fun items.

So while I was away for the holidays the cab was shoved in my garage and the frame was bundled up as best I could in the hopes that I wouldn't be coming home to a pile of rust.

171705

Fortunately it worked well even though AZ apparently had about 3 days of rain at one point. I always stress out about this stuff while I'm away. That and some idiot figuring out about all my nice tools/parts and helping themselves.

While away I got some killer gifts that did include truck parts, but one thing should allow me to give to you guys...

171706

So I've been filming most of this project with the idea that I would learn to edit and share on YouTube. That dream hasn't died and my family is supporting the idea by getting me a sweet camera. For those of you interested, I promise I'm trying.

I immediately went to work doing final welding and adding all the missing plates and tabs after I returned home. That included tipping the frame up to access the bottom easier. I lifted this in position manually...no assistance from equipment. I wish I could weigh just the frame to see what it weighs after all this added structure.

171707

That pic is right after I tipped it up and before I finished welding everything. Which then brings me to yesterday. Paint day. After probably 2 months of trying to wrap up frame fab I got to lay down Rust Encapsulator. That will be the base coat to seal the frame surface.

171708

One thing to note: I wish I had a decent enough air compressor to spray that on. It would have been soooo much faster and smoother. Luckily the top coat came in spray cans. I'm so excited seeing it in a uniform color FINALLY.

I will admit that there is a bit of an argument for not painting a frame that will likely need tweaks or complete changes after testing. I just hate rust and I am confident that most of this will be just like you see it. Worst case, I have to grind a small area to weld something and then paint back over it. No big deal.

Once this all dries by tomorrow I'll set it down and coat the other side. Then I get to install all the shiny new parts I've been hording. This is better than being a kid at Christmas! I think you guys are gonna be blown away.:twothumbs

[WallaceMFG]

Glad to see the progress! You made the right choice on painting the frame. It is much easier to touch up any spots you modify than it is to get all the surface rust cleaned off to paint.

Looking forwards to seeing more shiny parts!

[Fair]

Wow... just read thru the whole project. Sean worked for me more than a decade ago so I am going to try some constructive criticisms. ;)

Some of the early iterations of the suspension gave me an eye twitch! Most of the stuff I saw early on that were blatantly obvious fab/welding/suspension errors have been replaced, sometimes more than once.

The comments from others about the cage on this truck are valid. This would never pass tech at NASA or SCCA. I wanted to note that the FIA is not the cage standard used in road racing in the USA at all, rather we build to NASA and/or SCCA guidelines. FIA is all about "cookbook" or more often FIA homologated cages, which is a weird way to do things, and they use many of the same standards across rally and road racing. Some of the better FIA cage updates (like the vertical front door opening bars) have been incorporated into many cages here, however.

But it's not like this F150 will be wheel-to-wheel racing with SCCA or NASA, and it is probably safer than most trucks running in events with Goodguys or Optima events, which this build seems more tailored to. This will likely never see beyond 200 treadwear tires, and the major issues with trucks rolling over in autocross or road course situations - which CG, tall ride heights, super soft springs, super sticky tires - are not an issue here. Still, the outriggers for the contacts from the cabin portion of the cage to frame could be better.

Sean knows me and won't take these as harsh criticisms, and they aren't meant to be. But I am definitely subscribing just to see what happens next. ;)

[Sbeck09]

Thanks for taking the time Terry! I appreciate the feedback. I learned a lot in my brief time working there.

Knowing what I have learned at this point from building the suspension 4x...yeah the first couple versions aren't great. Thanks to feedback here and further educating myself we have arrived at the current version. Time will tell if that will be the final design, but this was a big reason I took on this project. LEARNING. I've discovered a previously unknown passion for designing these things and it feels so great to feed that.

For the cage, you hit the nail on the head. You've personally seen the cage in my Dad's car so you know I know the "right" way for Club racing. This truck is simply a learning tool for making the wrong vehicle do the right thing at fun, social events like Goodguys, SCCA Autox, and Optima. I'm not discounting anyone's points about making a safe structure (They are all super valid). I just want to make sure that we all realize that Pro-touring is more about fun older vehicles that handle like modern cars, but not full-blown Trans Am racers. My cage gives support to a flimsy cab and safe places for mounting harnesses and a steering column.

I am the first to admit that plenty of people could probably do it better right now. This is my first 100% solo project and I'm taking on tasks some "pro" builders won't touch so I expect to make mistakes. Thanks for the suggestions. It has really helped more than many of you realize. It will make my future projects even better. Terry already knows what the next one is ;)

[Sbeck09]

Alright it's really getting good now.

Since I last updated you all I have completed painting the frame and begun reassembly. This time it's for real. This is the push to make it live.

First up was making sure the supporting cast of components was ready to go back in the frame. One thing that has always irritated me about Ford is that they never put any coating on their diffs. My IRS diff was no exception with plenty of surface rust. So I took it as a chance to try out one of those rust dissolvers. I wanted to paint it to match the engine block. Pretty happy with the results.

171898

With that ready and the frame dry it was time to install the diff bushings. WOW that was a terrible job! I bought the solid aluminum kit thinking it wouldn't be a big deal. Uh no...installing these was worse than removing the factory bushings and that's known to be a tough procedure. I did prevail, of course. I figured out how to use a bottle jack as a press so that helped, but that wasn't until the last bushing...go figure. If you ever do this, just use poly.

171899

It made sense to just keep rolling on the rear so I grabbed the lower arms and knuckles since those are the only factory parts returning to the chassis. I've been slowly ordering and hording parts to eliminate all the rubber bushings and add significant adjustment. The spherical bearing conversion for the toe link and lower control arms are some work, but WELL worth it. From the factory the lower control arm is basically in bind due to the rubber bushing in the front. After the spherical I can move the arm all the way with 2 fingers.

171900

Then onto the truck

171901

It is nice to know that I won't have to replace anything in the rear soon since it is all new. Just made since to start with fresh everything.

Then onto the front to get the arms and spindles installed so this time the hubs can be packed and installed with the brakes. I'm excited to see how all this looks together.

171902

That's where I'm at for now. I'll plug away each night this week on starting to plumb the brakes and fuel hard lines while everything is out of the way. I'm hoping to set the cab back on in the next couple weeks, but I have a good bit of work before then.

[SSLance]

Major progress!!! Looks great...

[68400BIRD]

Looks great. Looking forward to updates as things get bolted back together. And even more to video of the truck on the track.

[Sbeck09]

Major progress!!! Looks great...


Looks great. Looking forward to updates as things get bolted back together. And even more to video of the truck on the track.

Thanks guys! Progress can't come fast enough. Having a day job is kinda rough right now because my mind often wanders outside since I'm ready to get it running. haha

I'm hoping to tackle the plumbing along the frame and prepping it to be a roller again this week. Then it's prepping the bottom of the cab and setting it back down for good. The next couple weeks should be exciting for this project!:bananna2:

[Sbeck09]

This week hasn't provided the fast progress I was expecting, but things are getting done and problems solved as they come up.

I left you guys with needing to assemble the front spindles with hubs and brakes. If you recall, I'm running the 2pc Wilwood spec37 rotors so I had to torque all 24 bolts with locktite, at minimum. As we all know by now, I'm no minimum guy. The bolts included are drilled for safety wire and the instructions list it as an "optional" step. My brakes staying attached isn't really optional so I took it as mandatory.

172032

Believe it or not, this is my first real safety wire job. It's not bad...hell almost therapeutic. I didn't take any other photos after this since my hands where in latex gloves packing my front wheel bearings. Just know that it's all bolted up tight now and ready for action.

Then I decided to tackle some plumbing since I want to do as much as I can with the cab off and drive train out. This way I'm not crawling under cussing how much room I don't have once those items are installed. We've all been there.

First up was fuel hard lines. I also grabbed a GM flex fuel sensor and 10 micron fuel filter. I thought these would make a great anchor point for the transition from flex lines off the fuel cell to hard lines on the frame. I won't waste typing it out, but know that these fought me hard on mounting properly. Glad that's over!

172033

This also gave me justification to bust out my flaring tool I bought way back at SEMA 2018. Yeah...this project has taken a bit longer than planned.

172034

GAME. CHANGER. Sure this is overkill for 1 project, but I like tools and they made me a great show offer. You can bust out flared lines in a couple minutes with ease. So if you ever need lines flared in Phoenix, come find me...I've got you. haha

Then after some fiddling around with the hard lines I nailed down the routing and installed everything finger tight. I will go back and blow out all the lines again before I seal the system up for good.

172035

Sure it's not the most picturesque job, but I'm happy with it and it stays far away from the exhaust or any other dangers. The only thing I wish I had done was order bulkhead fittings for the front of the lines, but with the clamps on nothing moves without a solid push to bend the lines.

Tonight is brake hard lines from the T's to the flex line fittings. Then fuel cell, driveshaft (easier to do now than with the transmission in), and make the fuel lines for the fuel cell to hard lines. Not gonna lie...I actually like doing this AN line plumbing.

[Sbeck09]

I'll start off by saying that AN plumbing isn't that fun after you stab your fingers with the braid a few times, OUCH!

Turns out that I really enjoy running brake hard lines. It's super easy with this NiCop tube. Once again, it's not the most perfect job, but I like it and nothing is in harms way.

172157

172158

As you can see I got the driveshaft installed, fuel cell in and the lines run down. At that point I decided to set it on the ground in preparation of installing the engine. I don't trust my engine crane to lift this dressed engine and transmission so I roll the frame under my gantry crane and drop it in that way.

The plan was to have the engine and transmission fully installed by last night, but I have no photo because it didn't happen. When I was installing the clutch I discovered a missing part so I have to get that before I can continue. Hopefully I can share that install in the next couple days. Then it's all about prepping the cab for install.

Getting close to wiring!

[Sbeck09]

Big night last night. Also a late one, but don't tell my boss. haha

Turns out I'm an idiot and I wasn't missing a single part for the clutch. That's a story I'll be keeping to myself. So lightweight aluminum flywheel is on with a Mcleod RST twin disk clutch and all held together with good ARP hardware.:naughty:

172221

Then I had the fun of setting my hydraulic throwout bearing depth. I got a Tilton 6000 series and it's a really nice piece, but you have to set the depth and tolerance. I never like doing this job because it gives me anxiety. I've fixed these for other people when they set it up wrong (happens a little too often) so I'm confident that I do know what to do.

And with all that done I stabbed the transmission in and set it all down in the truck for the final time!

172222

I'll take time to fill fluids and route some hoses and wiring while the access is this easy. But the big focus now is on prepping the bottom of the cab.

One other thing to note, when I bought my transmission it came with the mid shift kit installed with their own brand of shifter. It's a really nice part and works perfectly, but I have a 14" shift lever so the throw has always been longer than I wanted. I recently discovered that Tremec makes a short shift version for their own mid shift kit aimed at trucks. You unfortunately do have to buy the entire conversion kit, but I LOVE a nice tight shift pattern and a shorter shift lever just won't do. So away more money goes. haha

172223

You can see how much taller the new shifter is and that's the whole point. I did a quick test last night and it definitely did exactly what I wanted. I'll put the other shfiter and all the conversion components for mid shift up for sale on here later. It would feel perfect in a car with a shorter lever.

[neongreen]

Looks great! And I thought my long tube headers were long...

[Sbeck09]

Looks great! And I thought my long tube headers were long...

Yeah these are pretty obnoxious. I honestly regret not making my own because these have fought me every step of the way and were very expensive to end up cutting on anyway. They better make some good power. My biggest concern is that the starter clearance is TIGHT. Let's hope we can find out soon...very soon.:drive:

[Jaymzz]

Looking good! I just bought that same clutch for my Camaro last week.

[Sbeck09]

Not much to show in photos from the last few days of work, but I spent the entire weekend trying to get ready for the cab to go back on the frame for good. I'm wore out!

I got the transmission filled with fluid already. Engine is still dry and I want to change the diff fluid, but that stuff is easy to do later. I also started laying out some wiring that came pre-terminated from Holley. I will say that I'm not super impressed with the quality of their harnesses now that I've had to peel back some of the sleeves to rearrange the layout around the intake sensors. When I called to ask them if I got the wrong harness for a Hi-Ram the tech just said even they have to modify the layout and lengths of things on their wiring. Umm...shouldn't the manufacturer of an intake know where the sensors generally go? But I digress...

So I laid out everything I have for wiring this truck. Oh boy I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, but I am convinced it won't be that bad. I think we all hate wiring more than we should. I'm determined to do a good job and learn to do it right.

172527

Then with more space to work I jumped on some dash work and prepped the cab for it's coating. I'm not focused on the exterior paint until I get the truck running and mostly sorted. I do want the interior done so nothing needs to be removed later to paint again. I figured if I started early Saturday I could be spraying after a couple hours of cleaning. NOPE. Took most of the day to get everything prepped.

I'm doing Lizard Skin sound and heat coatings on this cab. I don't feel like doing the mat stuff and as much as I'd love to shave any weight off this truck, I live where it gets 110+ for 3-4 months a year. So some additional insulation goes a long way toward keeping me driving all year. In the end, I believe I added about 15lbs back with both coatings. I can live with that.

172528

Couple things can be seen there. Top of the dash is in aside from the defrost vent cutouts. Mainly you can see the sound deadening sprayed on. It looks patchy because it was half dry at this point. It dries totally uniform. Personally, I like the texture it gives too. My opinion of the Lizard Skin products is that it does work well(played around testing both a bit after it dried) but is MESSY to work with. Granted I'm a totally novice painter so maybe someone more experienced could do a cleaner job. Yes there is patches around the seat mounts that aren't coated. I'm painting over all of this so it will be a uniform black color. I didn't want to waste this stuff in non-critical areas since it is pretty expensive. The entire floor and firewall is covered on the outside/underside.

While that dried (I seriously hate waiting for things to dry) I jumped back onto the dash and started playing with the layout of everything. It's amazing how fast you run out of room when you have a steering wheel in the way. My idea here was to make the MPH and RPM gauges viewable through the steering wheel. I tested this idea before dismantling the cab. I know the Holley screen can do this for me, but I just like a traditional style gauge for RPM. These all run off of the CAN so it's 1 little wire to hook it all up. Gotta love technology!

172529

I did finish spraying all the Lizard Skin down and it has completed drying. I only need to top coat everything and drill a couple small holes for some lines to run before I drop it onto the frame. Soooo close now!

[WallaceMFG]

Good progress as usual!

That Lizard Skin stuff flat out works. We have it in both our Chevelle and Torino. The Torino was driving before we put the Lizard Skin in, so we got to have a before & after comparison on it. It made a world of difference in both the noise and temp department, but the temp was what we noticed more because the car is so loud. No more heat comes through the floor from the exhaust. Our Chevelle has the LS with some other insulation on top of it, it almost sounds like a new car inside. We're very impressed with the stuff.

[Sbeck09]

Your positive feedback about it was one of a few reasons I went this route. I was struggling to decide what to do up until recently.

I will also admit that I accidentally tested the heat resistance last night. I was doing a couple small welds on plates under the cab and didn't even think about the coating. When I finally realized what I was doing I got worried about damaging the coating on the floor of the cab and quickly checked it. No joke, the coating was completely unharmed and I could lay my hand on that part of the floor within about a minute of finishing that weld. I was flat out amazed. It was only warm to the touch.

If anyone has more questions about this I am happy to talk more about it if you shoot me a message.

[neongreen]

Good luck with the wiring. I actually enjoy it, it's kinda cathartic for me, and I really appreciate a well made wiring harness.

[Sbeck09]

Good luck with the wiring. I actually enjoy it, it's kinda cathartic for me, and I really appreciate a well made wiring harness.

Thanks. Yeah once I get going I don't mind it at all. Get some music on and make everyone leave me to it, and I just sort of zone out to the world. Even better is that wiring is a pretty clean task so I was able to work inside in the warmth the last couple days while I modified my Holley main harness. It won't be a quick process to do it right, but at least I know it will work.

[Tincup]

Great Job, nice attention to detail.

[Sbeck09]

Wow what a weekend! I didn't take many photos due to just being lazer focused on finishing the truck enough to move it from my backyard to the garage. I'm kinda sore, but it was all worth it.

First up was prepping the main wiring harness to install now since doing it with the cab on is a nightmare. I noticed in the past when I first installed it that half the sensor wire terminations are in really strange spots...especially for the SBF. So I made notes on where to move wires and any additional lengths I should add and pulled the harness off to start cutting on a $370 bundle of wires.

Somehow I didn't think to snap photos of the process, but the end result was exactly what I wanted.

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For the record: I am not using a single solder connection on this truck. I am ONLY using proper automotive crimps with the correct crimpers and then covering everything in a combo of Techflex, Raychem DR25, and/or dual wall adhesive heat shrink. So prepping to do wiring was an expensive endeavor, but I am totally determined to do this myself.

I also bought a special labeler that I can get the heat shrink labels for. That was super cool to get! This is a perfect example of how I'm doing all the leads. I've been covering this more in-depth on my Instagram stories and everyone seems to love it.

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I also had to come up with a clever way to make an oil return line fexible, but only go 4.5 inches away. BIG thanks to Jesse at Level7 Motorsports for the tip on this hose. It worked perfectly.

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Then one last check and admiring look at Duffee's port matching work (he also worked over the ports on the heads some) before I bolted the Hi Ram lid on for good.

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After all that was ready I lifted the cab with my crane and set it down for the last time. What I didn't get pics of was the dimple gussets and dash mounts I made. Like I said...I was head down and grinding hard this weekend to make it happen. I did it. For the first time since I backed the truck into my backyard 16 ish months ago, I rolled and steered it into my garage. The photo makes it seem like no big deal, but to me this is HUGE.

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That wall behind the truck is 98% full of wiring tools and supplies. The task ahead of me is no joke, but I really feel like the hard part is done. Now it's simply connecting the dots with wires and making it all route intelligently. I honestly believe that in the next 2 weeks I'll be able to hit the starter for the first time and see what this angry little stroker sounds like. I can't F-ing wait!

[Sbeck09]

Lots of little things going on to prep for the first fire. It's not very photogenic, but exciting for me.

One thing all of my neighbors have commented on is how clean the interior is. I do like a simple and sanitary looking interior and that lizard skin came out superb. Plus there is no wires crowding everything...yet.

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But of course it must get worse before it gets better. So right after that photo I started mounting all the different electrical components so I knew where to connect everything. As I'm diving into wiring I want to make this as clean and easy to work on later as is possible. So I hunted hard to find a label maker that was affordable and would do heat shrink tube labels. So here you go, you can do it too. I can't find tube bigger than 1/2" for this one, but that's ok with me.

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From there is has been lots of laying out wiring and hoses. You can see the power steering line I made that just clears the oil lines. It's kinda crazy looking, but it works together so I'm happy to see that. Got all the vacuum lines I'm aware of needing installed and every sensor is hooked up.

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Those front support tubes are not fully welded or pained yet. I've noticed they like to move around a bit when welding so these will be welded in place then removed for painting. They come on and off really easily and won't affect any hoses.

Once I had the starter and alternator cables run I grabbed the core support to install all the coolers. I didn't take time to snap photos of the process, but the radiator went from a 10 degree layback (factory) to a 2 degree lean forward. Sure more would really help with ducting air out of the hood, but this made mounting everything almost like stock and easy to access. It is already a big improvement and potential gains from the hours of work to take it further wouldn't really be realized with all the other aero shortcomings of a truck.

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Those gaps on the sides of the radiator will be closed later with real aluminum ducting. For now I need to get everything functional and verify that nothing is being relocated.

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So that's a 4 row aluminum radiator, the largest A/C condenser Vintage Air offers, and the two smaller coolers are oil (bigger) and power steering (smaller). It just barely fit behind the stock plastic grill support there. Now I can run the last 4 AN hoses and the radiator hoses are on the way. I'll wrap up all the main systems wiring and program the two computers over the next couple evenings. I expect to hit the start button for the first time Thursday or Friday. I'm not bothering with headlight/taillight wire terminations until I am ready to go further than down my street. A/C plumbing will happen after it is back on the road since I have a couple more months of good weather and other systems to focus on first.

After about 16.5 months of work we are double the original budget and time I planned for, but I did wayyyy more than I was supposed to. :hammer: It's so close now that I can taste it and I'm looking good to make All American Sunday at Good Guys Scottsdale in 1 month for the first event. Fingers crossed for no issues over the next couple weeks.

[SSLance]

Great progress!!

[Sbeck09]

Great progress!!

Thanks Lance! I think half the neighborhood is cheering me on for the first start now. Basically every guy on my street has stopped by to take a look at this insanity. They are all baffled and amazed that this was built in my backyard so that's been fun.

I can't wait to rattle their windows.:headbang:

[WallaceMFG]

Good work as usual! It starts to get fun once it looks like a complete vehicle again. Even better once it makes noise!

[Sbeck09]

Speaking of making noise....it finally happened!

I jumped all over this thing Friday after work and I barely slept at all because I was so determined to make it run this weekend.

Everything started off smooth. I was running wires, making hoses, and prepping the dash. By the time I went to bed Friday I had the dash setup sitting there waiting for connections.

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While I realize the digital dash could handle the RPM and speedo duties, I just really like analog style gauges for those two. The big bummer here is that I discovered the digital dash can't integrate the fuel gauge without an adapter harness (big surprise there) which is more expensive than adding a matching fuel gauge. So it looks like I need another hole in the dash.

From there I started getting into the programming of the Racepak Smartwire and the Dominator. That's where things went sideways and slowed way down. I found out that the built-in configuration for my Smartwire was never loaded before they shipped it to me. So then I expected to find everything I needed to know online....nope! 4 hours of fumbling through the Datalink program resulted in finally starting to figure out how to configure the system myself. I'll say that the product itself is awesome, but they have a very long way to go on documentation and tech support.

The Dominator was so easy to program as we all know. Building a base map went really smooth and was headache free. I had to set the dual sync distributor which ended up being not bad at all.

Finally on Sunday afternoon I said screw it and hit the starter button. A few pops and stutters, but no vroom....hmmm. After looking at everything and finding a couple leaks I got convinced that I set the timing 180 degrees out. So instead of pulling the intake apart again I just rotated the wires on the cap. Hit the button and boom...we have a running SBF!

I did make a video, but it's not on YouTube so you'll have to click the link to Instagram below and check that out. I promise real videos will come soon and I will share them here.

Now I'm buttoning up wiring and plumbing so I can get ready for the first drive later this week. The biggest focus for me now is getting some help with initial tuning as I break-in this motor.

[Sbeck09]

True to my word I drove it around the block last night! It was dark and I don't have lights yet, but after I got the brakes and clutch bled down I couldn't help it. 17 months of hard work later it moves on it's own again!:headbang::drive2:

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Sure, I still have to wire in all the lights, add a couple sensors, and finalize the wiring under the dash, but that's easy by comparison. I'm working on registration this weekend since my hope is the have lights and a plate on it within about a week. The tune is TERRIBLE, but the Dominator is doing a decent job of keeping everything reasonably safe. I'll need help on that pretty quick.

Funny story about the first drive...when trying to get back into the driveway I was going super slow over the little curb thing to channel drainage, since I don't know all the clearances yet, and the truck is so stiff now between the frame mods and sway bars that it teetered on opposing wheels. It made me really happy actually since these frames are a wet noodle in stock form.

Also, my buddy came by to see it alive for himself and had me fire it up. He ended up noticing the brake booster causing a vacuum leak which we quickly noticed was causing the idle to be high and causing me fits when trying to dial in the IAC %. I'll get a fresh booster hopefully this weekend.

Another thing was at the time I ordered this Hi Ram intake, I got severe sticker shock and opted for their 92mm throttle body. But I'm an optimizer and these plenums are designed for a 105mm TB which is $$$. So I found a crazy deal on a 102mm and threw that on. Funny how 10mm makes such a visual difference (that's what she said). I don't care about any additional HP, but the throttle response is definitely sharper and I like that it better matches the rest of the system.

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Part of me actually wants to convert to a DBW setup. I don't like how the cable feels in this truck and I think it's because Everything else I drive doesn't have a cable anymore. I know the Dominator has the ability, but I'm not very enthusiastic about the cost with everything else that I actually need. Opinions are welcome.

More soon!

[SSLance]

Right on!! Love that first drive around the block feeling!!!

[Sbeck09]

I'm so fortunate to have cool neighbors. A couple of them heard it thunder by and came running down the block to talk about it before I could even pull back into the garage!

I'd like to get everything bled again and try this afternoon for round 2 while it's still light out. Lance, you and I will be corner weighting before you know it!

Who has guesses about the weight in street-legal form? Starting thinking about it...

[Jaymzz]

Congrats! I so can't wait for the moment for my first drive in my blazer. This is some motivation to get back on mine. :D

[Sbeck09]

Congrats! I so can't wait for the moment for my first drive in my blazer. This is some motivation to get back on mine. :D

Glad it helps. I am looking forward to seeing yours come together!

I keep finding little gremlins, but better here in the neighborhood than across town.

So far I've had 2 oil lines leak, the steering shaft come undone (that one was interesting), and a couple small cooling line drips. So I'd say overall this has gone ok, but the alignment is still HORRIBLE. Haha.

[Sbeck09]

Hard to show in photos, but I've been doing a little on the truck every night. I got a license plate and insurance so the push is to get everything together enough for street driving. Gotta love how easy AZ is.

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Of course I needed the interior wiring done so the truck is fully functional. That has been most of the the time suck right now. But last night I bolted in the two most important panels and I'm loving the results!

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Even the Vintage Air unit is functional now.:yeah:

This weekend is all about prepping under the bed so that can be final mounted, finish the front end install, and install/wire all new lights. That should ensure I won't get pulled over or run into. I expect to be street driving next week depending on when I can get a fresh windshield installed. Now I need a basic tune to keep things safe while I throw break-in miles at the drivetrain. This is so exciting!

[vette427-sbc]

The dash (among everything else) looks killer! Glad to hear you’re almost ready for some street miles

[Sbeck09]

While it may not look like it, I got some good work done this weekend.

Big focus was wiring all the different lights. Doing wiring properly always takes time, but better to do it now than chase issues later. Since the bed isn't on yet I focused on the front.

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I realize these headlights are not everyone's cup of tea, but I hate the 4pc design of the stock setup (nightmare to install/remove), these look far more modern, they fit the planned color combo better, and I'm a big fan of Projector lights when they are made reasonably well. Plus they have LEDs and I'm a total LED whore. I also converted these to HIDs which I've never seen done on these particular lights. That was a little tricky, but it seems to work well. So now I have full parking, high/low beam, and turn/hazard lights up front with weatherpack connectors allowing it to be serviced if needed.

I'm so excited to see how this all looks with the new front bumper. That is scheduled to ship mid-week so hopefully it won't be too much longer.

Another area to address was the preset timing tables in the Dominator map. I noticed it would command up to 44 degrees of timing which is much more than I've ever seen on a motor like mine. So I have been running the distributor retarded. Now that I better understand the tables in the software I went and capped everything at 32 degrees. I just need to reset the distributor now. Sure I might be giving up a little power and efficiency, but everything needs to break-in anyway so I'm not sweating it. I plan to optimize later as I start leaning on the truck more and more.

I used that as an excuse to pull the truck out and of course caught a more flattering photo than what I can do in the garage.

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Must have forgotten to snap some pics, but the bed is sitting ready to install. I routed and loomed the entire rear harness so all it needs is the OEM plug added and we are fully lit. I'm also going to call and schedule for a windshield install this week so I can safely tolerate road speeds. Haha

[neongreen]

I think low load cruising, 44 degrees is fairly normal. Not at WOT of course, that's usually in the 30s for an American V8.

[Sbeck09]

I think low load cruising, 44 degrees is fairly normal. Not at WOT of course, that's usually in the 30s for an American V8.

Great point! I've been reading up on that and saw the same thing. I just haven't figured out how to look at all those tables in the Holley software. Hopefully I can get some help on this pretty quick to speed up that process. We are SUPER close to being safe to drive around town so the basic tune needs to be cleaned up quickly. All I am trying to do is be extra cautious with the parameters we start with. Like most of us, my lack of knowledge makes me nervous about everything.

I also had the distributor pretty far retarded when I checked this evening. After getting that aligned with the software the engine has VASTLY improved response, idle quality, and reduced heat. Hopefully no more rain tomorrow afternoon and I can do a neighborhood test. From there I'm staying out of the tuning tables until I get someone "qualified."

[neongreen]

Great point! I've been reading up on that and saw the same thing. I just haven't figured out how to look at all those tables in the Holley software. Hopefully I can get some help on this pretty quick to speed up that process. We are SUPER close to being safe to drive around town so the basic tune needs to be cleaned up quickly. All I am trying to do is be extra cautious with the parameters we start with. Like most of us, my lack of knowledge makes me nervous about everything.

I also had the distributor pretty far retarded when I checked this evening. After getting that aligned with the software the engine has VASTLY improved response, idle quality, and reduced heat. Hopefully no more rain tomorrow afternoon and I can do a neighborhood test. From there I'm staying out of the tuning tables until I get someone "qualified."

Yeah you don't want to retard too much, the late burn causes high EGT and can burn valves. Being N/A the tuning is a lot more forgiving of mistakes, especially if you aren't going full load. I'd assume their base spark tables are pretty safe.

The Holley autotunes AFR doesn't it?

[Sbeck09]

That's what I understand too, which is why I made sure to true up the timing before I start leaning on it more. It all seems happier now.

After reviewing the preset spark tables it seems to be right about where most people would want a good street small block. I probably would have been fine just leaving things alone. That's not really what I am known for. Haha:rolleyes:

Yes the Holley system is known for learning quickly and effectively what the AFR is and does everything it can to bring it to the targets. So far it seems to be holding everything a little on the fat side, but not so bad that I'm fuel washing the cylinders. I am very impressed with the Holley EFI. Much more than I am with the Racepak.

[Sbeck09]

Still no sign or updates on my front bumper, but I have been tackling the rest of the body.

First up was reinstalling the bed for the final time.

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All my measurements worked out well and minimal trimming was needed beyond what I had already done. I did also cut down and then hammered flat the inner lip of the wheel opening. That provides almost an entire inch of extra tire/wheel clearance from before. So now I can go outward a full 2 inches wider with new wheels and tires and still not think about rubbing.

Hopefully I'll see the same results with the front fenders when It stops raining long enough to cut on those. Then the hood is the last thing to cut up. That's right...every single panel has some kind of alteration. I just can't help myself. But that also means I have to come up with some kind of hood support when it's open since the heavy stock spring mechanism isn't able to go back on.

In between the rain storms that have persisted this week I couldn't help but take it out in the neighborhood. You'd think it would annoy my neighbors, but nope! They are mostly impressed by it and everyone keeps asking for a ride.

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I'm so happy with the stance and height. Lance and I will tackle the alignment and corner balancing very soon.

What is everyone's guess on the total weight and front/rear % split? I'm hoping for around 3600lbs and a 60/40 split. It's hard to say if I've been that effective in what I removed vs where I placed everything now.

[Sbeck09]

Well I was trying to get to Lance's to do the alignment and weigh this beast, but I guess I don't quite work that fast. We obviously want to have everything on the truck so we get the most accurate data. Hopefully we can knock that out in a day or two.

First up was to get fully functional tail lights going. I've had most of the features operational for about a week, but with the Smartwire system you aren't supposed to be able to use a factory tail light housings with dual filament bulbs. I spent some time on the phone with Jesse over at Level 7 Motorsports and we came up with a game plan. I had to pin 2 more wires than the normal "street kit" harness includes, but I got it to work. This system is really cool, but be prepared to just play around in the software to learn and try things. So yes, you can make OEM lights work. I did it.

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Since I now was technically street legal I installed both 6pt harnesses. All lower belts clip-in with approved hardware, but I still believe in wrapping the shoulder belts.

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You can also see there that I still have a couple small things to tackle in the interior, but it's about 90% done and I have zero issue just walking out and driving if I feel like it. It's kind of a weird feeling knowing that after all this time and work.

I found some weight to kill in the front end so I spent half of Saturday and all day yesterday cutting up sheet metal. Only drew blood once so I consider that a good day. I pulled 8.75 lbs off the hood getting it down to 20.2 lbs. Each fender lost 3.6 lbs getting them down to 8.8 lbs a piece. A big part of the weight loss on the hood was thanks to the Trackspec hood vents. Because they add some rigidity to the outer skin I was able to remove additional under structure without making it too floppy.

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Took some hammer work to deal with the center ridge of the hood. I should have gone with a 2pc center section, but this turned out pretty well and will work great. I really like the look too. Ignore the crappy paint with my black coating for now. That was just for rust prevention until I paint the entire truck in a couple months.

I'm still waiting for a front bumper since I sold the stock steel one. It was way too heavy for what we are doing here. Once that shows up the body is basically done for now. It's getting so close!

[SSLance]

I waited out in the shop all afternoon too... :confused:

Looks good, now get er done already...

[Sbeck09]

I waited out in the shop all afternoon too... :confused:

Looks good, now get er done already...

Yeah...I realized after it was too late that I never actually sent a text. I'm really bad about that. Back glass and bars should be in tonight. I also need to add hood pins to drive now, but I have them on the shelf. I'm thinking we tackle the alignment Wednesday after I get off work, if it's not raining. I'm going to have to drive the truck over since I don't have a trailer yet and I'm not driving this thing in the rain. Worst case, we wait for Thursday when it is supposed to be dry again.

[SSLance]

It's all good, just let me know and we'll work it out. :)

[Zachalanche]

Killer build. Absolutely love it!

Just a thought for more weight savings and possibly to look a litte better with the smaller tire diameter, have you considered bobbing the bed? No need to hack the whole back end like the rock crawlers do, maybe just tighten it up a little. Might be cool.

[Sbeck09]

Killer build. Absolutely love it!

Just a thought for more weight savings and possibly to look a litte better with the smaller tire diameter, have you considered bobbing the bed? No need to hack the whole back end like the rock crawlers do, maybe just tighten it up a little. Might be cool.

Actually this did cross my mind. For the moment, I'm not going to tackle that, but removing 4-5" behind the rear wheels would probably look cool and drop up to 20lbs. I will probably go that route when I end up caving into cutting up the bed a lot more. I kinda like that it still has the ability to haul some stuff for now. We all know, based on what I've done so far, that I'll be looking to get more aggressive with this over time. Someone photoshop it so we can all decide if it looks better.

[RMMiller]

Saw an early 80's Bronco on craigslist and my mind went wandering thinking about your build under a Bronco. This crap is a disease!

[Sbeck09]

Saw an early 80's Bronco on craigslist and my mind went wandering thinking about your build under a Bronco. This **** is a disease!

The shorter wheelbase certainly wouldn't hurt for autox. You could 100% do what I've done to a bronco. I couldn't even be mad if someone did. :drive:

I see stuff on Marketplace and Craigslist all the time that gets me wondering if I could build it better than this truck. Almost bought a Maverick a couple months back...:naughty: But I already have the next build in the works after this truck so I need to stay focused! Savings, what's that? Haha

[RMMiller]

The shorter wheelbase certainly wouldn't hurt for autox. You could 100% do what I've done to a bronco. I couldn't even be mad if someone did. :drive:

I see stuff on Marketplace and Craigslist all the time that gets me wondering if I could build it better than this truck. Almost bought a Maverick a couple months back...:naughty: But I already have the next build in the works after this truck so I need to stay focused! Savings, what's that? Haha

I see way too much stuff that tries to distract me on those sites! My brother is messing with a 65 Malibu right now which gets me thinking about a 65 Tempest that has all the GTO clone parts. The car is solid and the interior parts are all there and new. We looked at buying it several years ago but passed on it. It's still sitting there egging me on but I need to get the Maverick finished.

[Sbeck09]

Well I know we are all supposed to be quarantined, but Lance hit me Friday afternoon and said to come on by Saturday morning to weigh, corner balance, and align the truck. Of course I said yes even though I was still bolting parts on until 1am.

I woke up ready to roll out Saturday morning and somehow the tune file was corrupted. The truck would spit and sputter and was obviously fuel washing on startup. I've been working with Andrew to get the tune really dialed in so I was fortunate to have the email with the most recent global file. Uploaded that and everything was golden again.

I was pretty nervous about driving almost 30 min through town since this would be the longest outing yet. No speedo either, but no one around here does the speed limit anyway. It all worked out and I made it safely.

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All along I've been hoping to end up with a final weight of 3500-3600lbs and no more than 60% on the front. I also knew that it wouldn't be super easy with all steel body panels and lots of additional chassis bracing. Get ready for this...3633lbs without me, 54% front/46% rear, and that is with 3/4 tank of fuel! I feel fantastic about that and get a load of the cross weights with me sitting in the seat:

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I've never been directly involved in this particular process so all the credit goes to Lance. I do feel really good about these results with this being a TON of guesswork and my first full solo build. For the alignment we had to fiddle a bit with the camber shims I have up front, but in the end we got just under 8 degrees of caster, 1.75 degrees of camber, and 1/32 toe out. For the rear (because IRS is tune-able...suck it stick axles Haha) we did .75 degrees of camber and 0 toe in or out. If anyone has better data to go off of please share it so we can make changes accordingly.

Right before we pulled the truck off the lift I had to grab a sweet shot of the clean underside for us to all enjoy.

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Looking back I should have done a panoramic photo and gotten it all, but this shows most of the goods and I love it.

I hope you all were pleasantly surprised by these results too. The only things on the agenda for the moment is get the tune right and wrap up some smaller odds and ends with the interior. I have some major personal things going on that are all good, but will distract me some from the truck over the next month. And I still want my dang bumper, but I think the virus has caused some delays for the supplier.

[SSLance]

It'll be interested to see how it corners both ways with it set like this. Once we get the shocks dialed in and see if the spring rates are good, we'll revisit corner balancing once again. Great starting spot though...

BTW, put some mufflers on that thing! My wife commented that she heard you turn South on 67th Ave... ;)

[Sbeck09]

Well Andrew needs data and I was testing the traction with a proper alignment. haha It is much better now if you were wondering.

I have actually been looking at better muffler options today. Definitely more quiet than what is on there, but still audible.

[egoman]

I hate to over simplify but your cross weight is very easy to get to 50 percent. Also a fuel cell shift or a relocation of the battery can balance the truck better. Cant remember where those are currently set. You cant adjust left side weight or front/rear balance with screw jacking. Those can only change with actual weight movements. The cross weight though is as easy as adding turns in diagonally and removing turns from the other diagonal as needed. For road/track use you can get away with the weight differences easier than the cross-weight imbalances. Believe me I am going to have to balance for my fat ass in my upcoming build. Starting right off with a 2 inch offset drivetrain, LOL.

[egoman]

Just looked back. Move the battery outside the frame and move the cell as far to the right as it will go. Set the cross-weight at 50% and bobs your uncle. Short of adding weight that's your best option.

[Sbeck09]

The battery is already outside of the frame rail and the most I could offset the fuel cell, safely, to the right is about 1.5 inches. Moving the fuel cell that bit would be a massive amount of work for a minimal change. I agree that weight-jacking is somewhat limited in what it can do, but we should all also remember that this is impressive as hell for an old truck already. Yes, as picky as I am I would love to make it all perfect, but realistically Lance and I agreed the best option is to leave things how we set them and test first. Things are always subject to change with my projects. I need to start testing setups before I evaluate them to death with no real data.

What I don't have a photo of is the cross weights without me in the truck. I actually have a greater effect on that left rear (about 100lbs) than any other point. So part of what you are seeing there is the "ME" effect. I've personally never seen that with a front weight biased vehicle. My goal is to lose 15-20lbs in the next handful of months which will also help. Although these gym closures aren't helping that cause.

[RMMiller]

Under 4,000 lbs, that alone is impressive!

[Sbeck09]

Under 4,000 lbs, that alone is impressive!

Thank you! I really wanted to push as close to 3500 as I safely could. I feel really great about these results since there is no exotic materials used. This is all real metal and a basic cage with full climate control. By the numbers, this truck could compete against newer pony cars. I intend to find out.

[70CougarXr7]

That truck is looking impressive, long time since i watched, great job!

[Sbeck09]

Wow I didn't realize how badly I have neglected you guys here. My bad.

It's been a crazy few weeks so let me bring you all up to speed (that don't already know).

So after aligning the truck the focus was more on just driving it and watching for any gremlins that might pop up while Andrew worked on the tune. He has done a FANTASTIC job btw so if you are running a Holley EFI system and want someone to do some solid real world tuning, he is your guy. Overall the truck has been solid with everything from steady state cruising to 0-100 blasts. I can't wait to really finish the small stuff so I can just play. The big thing that is annoying me to death is that my bumper is stuck not being shipped due to 'Rona. So forgive the bucktooth look.

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The more I see the stance the happier I am with the choices I made for ride height.

I then started cleaning up from the chaos of building a truck from scratch in my backyard. It resulted in an overflowing truckload to the salvage yard for a whopping $30. Yay.

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Oddly I felt kinda sentimental about taking that stuff away for no good reason, but now that it has been gone, I'm cool.

One of the best parts about how I setup the build and having the IRS system out back is that I could still use this as a truck for basic stuff. Even better is that provides additional justification to drive it around. Win-win.:smoke:

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Why would I be hauling stuff like that around town you might be asking? Well late last year the ball got rolling on a major purchase that I've only dreamed about most of my (short) adult life. A property in town that feels out of town where I could have my own real shop to create these things I constantly have in my head. I present to you all, my dream:

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Looking at the house and shop. Seeing about 1/3rd of the property in this pic...maybe.

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Nope, you can't see the inside because it's pure chaos. The property is 1.63 acres with a nice shop and a small house. It's essentially a blank canvas. The house will be added onto within the next year and the shop should do great for now with plenty of surrounding ground for possible expansion. And to celebrate I bought a giant new toolbox (red box is what I've been using for most of the last decade)!

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So what's next? I desperately want to organize since the shop became a big staging and temp storage area for house stuff, but I'm still getting the last couple items out of the old house so it can be sold. All while I'm talking to a friend about having lazer cut panels for the doors done and a custom shift lever to better suit my driving position. I guess races being on hold for now has kinda played to my advantage, but I'm ready to go beat on this beast and get some real testing data. This is a VERY exciting time for me and there is plenty left to do. This project is definitely not done.

Luckily the local wildlife (my friends) make sure to gawk regularly

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[Jaymzz]

Congrats on putting miles on your truck and your other purchase also! I know what you mean about race season being on hold, bought my zl1 to have something to race until my Blazer is done and no races. :( But I am getting more done on my house and Blazer from it. lol

[Sbeck09]

Congrats on putting miles on your truck and your other purchase also! I know what you mean about race season being on hold, bought my zl1 to have something to race until my Blazer is done and no races. :( But I am getting more done on my house and Blazer from it. lol

Yeah definitely not how I saw my spring going. haha. That being said, this has given some great time to just tune the truck well and plan for what needs to be further optimized while getting more familiar with how it drives. I've learned that every vehicle has a different character and they all need a little different touch...especially this thing. My heal-toe shifts are already getting smoother, but Andrew talked me into another "upgrade" that will cause me to have to learn that all over again.

[WallaceMFG]

Been keeping up on instagram, but still good to see how everything is going. Congrats on the purchase and progress!

[Sbeck09]

Been keeping up on instagram, but still good to see how everything is going. Congrats on the purchase and progress!

Thanks! You're one of a handful of people that crossover and I really appreciate that. It's crazy to me that my IG page is like 830 followers now. But then again this thread is approaching 50k views too.

The move has really slowed work on the truck, but there is some cool things still coming. And I desperately want to finish the A/C plumbing since we break 100 degrees for the first time next week. Also turns out one of my friends owns a couple massive laser cutters, sheers, and breaks for his business so he is going to help make some perfectly cut panels to finish out the interior. I gotta up my game because all of you do such nice work on your own projects.

[JayinMI]

I've been following on IG as well. I'm over here thinking of skipping A/C in my truck since it didn't have it originally, but then I remember we'll get in the 90's in summer here in MI, and what good is a nice weather driver, if you drive it when it's hot? lol

[Sbeck09]

I've been following on IG as well. I'm over here thinking of skipping A/C in my truck since it didn't have it originally, but then I remember we'll get in the 90's in summer here in MI, and what good is a nice weather driver, if you drive it when it's hot? lol

Exactly! I way overbuilt my engine cooling system so I'm sure that will tolerate our 117 degree days, but no way in hell am I sitting in this truck without a cooling system for me. I've done the racecar thing with no air at all and I'll tell you that it is worth the weight "penalty" 11/10 times. I don't want fair weather vehicles, I want toys I can play with all year long. Plus, there is a very good reason why professional motorsports also run air conditioning for their drivers. Can't argue with the pros.

[Sbeck09]

Still haven't gotten around to doing the A/C install. Actually, I took the truck for tacos and it ran great, come into the shop the next afternoon and see a puddle of water under the truck. I freaked out fearing something major and luckily it was simply a leaking heater hose connection just after the heater valve. So of course I'm changing all the worm clamps out to those Gates Shrink Clamps, moving some hoses, and overall simplifying the system to reduce the risk of future leaks (less connections). I HATE trying to seal up cooling systems because I never feel like I'm winning. :hammer: But let's all remember that this is the first time I have ever had to design a complete cooling system so I was bound to learn a few things.

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On the brighter side, I stumbled onto a guy that runs a small CNC shop out of his garage and he makes parts for these trucks. When I saw the reasonable price of his billet door handles and that I could get them engraved for like $10 extra, I had to have them! Once the door panels are on these will look fantastic!

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Now I want to find someone to cut some custom fender badges to keep the theme going.

As I get tools unpacked and power setup around the new shop I can start taking on some of the other items that I have been severely procrastinating on. Most notably is the fuel cell. I was in such a rush to get the truck functional that I just capped the fill tube and never filled up over 3/4 tank allowing me to put off the vent plumbing and filler neck fab. It has endlessly bothered me since I've had the II Much VSR for a while. Yesterday I finally got my order of AN fittings so I could do the vent. Such a nice piece and super easy to install on this fuel cell with the VSR mounted in the bed. Remember, all this will eventually be covered by a bed cover anyway. Now I can do the filler neck when I get the outlet installed for my welder and it will be 100% done.

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The last item, that is still in the works, would be another muffler change. I am the WORST about picking mufflers because I'm so picky about the sound. After reading tons of happy reviews for these Borla Sportsman mufflers, I had to give them a shot. WOW! By far the deepest sounding 3" muffler I have ever heard. They make my little 408w sound like a big block! The idle is noticeable, but not bad while a burp of the throttle let's you know they bark. Once the cooling system is back together I'll go try them under load, but on a 30 second cold start I was impressed. Turn downs are on the way so I can finish these sometime in the next week.

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I gotta get this together since events seem to be starting to be scheduled again and I can't miss anything local if I want test data before the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in August. All these distractions like new tractors, new bicycles, and new motorcycles are really not helping.:jump:

[RMMiller]

Looks like you found a nice place to land, that shop would be great to work in! What part of Phoenix are you in? I lived there briefly after high school, we had a place in the upper end of town, 52nd street and Van Buren!:rotfl: Went by there in 2000 when we went down for the drag races, what a dump, couldn't get out of there fast enough for my wife!

[Sbeck09]

Yeah I'm super happy here. As with any new place, I have a lengthy list of items I want to tackle to really make it "mine," but it already feels like home and I have zero regrets. This place is up off of Happy Valley so it's a bit north of where you lived. You definitely won't find me down on Van Buren anytime soon.

[JayinMI]

As I get tools unpacked and power setup around the new shop I can start taking on some of the other items that I have been severely procrastinating on. Most notably is the fuel cell. I was in such a rush to get the truck functional that I just capped the fill tube and never filled up over 3/4 tank allowing me to put off the vent plumbing and filler neck fab. It has endlessly bothered me since I've had the II Much VSR for a while. Yesterday I finally got my order of AN fittings so I could do the vent. Such a nice piece and super easy to install on this fuel cell with the VSR mounted in the bed. Remember, all this will eventually be covered by a bed cover anyway. Now I can do the filler neck when I get the outlet installed for my welder and it will be 100% done.

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What is a VSR? I assume it's some kind of vent for the fuel tank, but I'm guessing it must be a little more than just that.





The last item, that is still in the works, would be another muffler change. I am the WORST about picking mufflers because I'm so picky about the sound. After reading tons of happy reviews for these Borla Sportsman mufflers, I had to give them a shot. WOW! By far the deepest sounding 3" muffler I have ever heard. They make my little 408w sound like a big block! The idle is noticeable, but not bad while a burp of the throttle let's you know they bark. Once the cooling system is back together I'll go try them under load, but on a 30 second cold start I was impressed. Turn downs are on the way so I can finish these sometime in the next week.

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I gotta get this together since events seem to be starting to be scheduled again and I can't miss anything local if I want test data before the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in August. All these distractions like new tractors, new bicycles, and new motorcycles are really not helping.:jump:

When the exhaust is done, you'll have to post a sound clip or walkaround. I'm not there yet, but I will (hopefully) need to pick mufflers in the not-to-distant future.
It's like speakers...you can't just pick them based on looks or recommendations and expect to be happy.

Jay

[Sbeck09]

What is a VSR? I assume it's some kind of vent for the fuel tank, but I'm guessing it must be a little more than just that.

When the exhaust is done, you'll have to post a sound clip or walkaround. I'm not there yet, but I will (hopefully) need to pick mufflers in the not-to-distant future.
It's like speakers...you can't just pick them based on looks or recommendations and expect to be happy.

Jay

The VSR is 1 of 2 versions II Much offers their vent in. This is for remote mounting the actual breather which is why you see the second line running straight down from mine. The canister itself functions exactly the same and is nearly physically identical to the other version. You can see it on their website.

I definitely plan to share some sound clips. I seem to have my mic dialed in decent for my camera so it should be easy to hear. My biggest fight with mufflers is trying to find one that offers an aggressive idle while not blowing out your ear drums when you mat the fun pedal. I get that is largely unrealistic, but a guy can dream. My little mufflers that I've been running have an angry idle, but they are simply too loud when you go over 2500 rpm. Not ear-splitting (to me), but just way too much for around town or any track. Lance believes I'll still have some tracks that these Borlas are too loud for (I agree), but I have an idea for that as well. I think I'll be buying a Decimeter soon to do some sound tests with real data which should help you guys and myself pick something appropriate.

[JayinMI]

I think my biggest pet peeve would be drone on the highway. My commute to work is about 62 miles one way (40+ on the freeway) and even tho I don't plan on my truck being my daily, it will certainly make a few trips. I don't know if you're familiar with the Woodward Dream Cruise in Michigan, but I work right on it's path, so I would eventually like to run it down there for that.

Jay

[Sbeck09]

I will get back to you about the level of drone once I take a real cruise. I will always have some drone with my exhaust routing because it dumps under the bed. It always helps to get that sound out and directed away from the vehicle. Borla claims these have less drone, but I take that with a grain of salt.

And yes, thanks to Hoonigan I am familiar with the Woodward Dream Cruise. I'd love to go someday.

[neongreen]

Here's how you can run any muffler you want, without drone.

http://ironhydroxide.blogspot.com/2017/09/drone-warfare.html

[Sbeck09]

Fascinating write up! Thank you for sharing that. I love at-home engineering with simple data acquisition, just like he did.

For this truck I don't worry too much about it because I only take it out to play and it really has zero interior so fighting sound is a losing battle. I know for many others that will be helpful and I've seen more and more aftermarket systems include that exact method of killing drone. I'm just out to be noisy anyway because apparently I'll never grow up. :)

[Sbeck09]

I think we can agree more than anything else, the slow down of deliveries right now SUCKS! My Gates Powergrip hose clamps finally arrived after UPS delaying delivery 3x and I got them installed last night. I really must thank Jesse at Level 7 Motorsports for this one. He was telling me way back when I first did the cooling system that it had too many connections and to use these clamps. Thanks to my hardheadedness we are now to that point.

From this mess:

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To this streamlined layout:

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Less connections and a cleaner engine bay always make me happier.

Now the other pressing matter is wrapping up the real fuel cell filler solution. This never got done purely out of laziness and then getting busy with the whole move. I've very happy to finally be about done with this task. After finding fuel fillers to be excessively expensive I settled on modifying one of the 2 original fillers from the truck. The fuel cell came with a 2.5" inlet neck and the Ford fillers were right at 2" in diameter. My simple solution was to cut and weld the bend of the stock filler 180 degrees from where it came and then add a steel 2 to 2.5" exhaust reducer to the end so they would match. Then a short piece of the special fuel filler hose and boom...done.

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As always I used Ram Board for the template material. I'll cut it out of plate tonight and weld it to the cage bar so I can lock everything down. Some black paint and it will look mint.

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Not the prettiest but very functional. So it definitely matches the rest of the truck. The idea being that this will end up hidden under the eventual bed cover with just the cap sticking up for easy access.

Next up is the new mufflers, the rest of the AC install since it has already been well beyond 100 degrees here a few times, and then some interior parts like a shifter cover and door panels. Time to really bring my vision together.

[JayinMI]

What is the valve in the lower heater hose from? Is it electrical or vacuum?

The "after" looks way better!

My Amazon packages keep getting delayed in Detroit for like a week. Sigh.
But I ordered some aluminum stock from Onlinemetals.com and it came in like 2 days.
Rocker panels for my S10, too. Guess using UPS/FedEx is the way to go for me, anyway.


Also, where did you get the power bulkhead fittings. I have some in my Amazon wishlist, but nice to have options.

Jay

[Sbeck09]

That valve is the heater control valve supplied by Vintage Air. Admittedly I'm not thrilled with the way this integrates, but it does keep it universal.

It always seems like car/truck related stuff ships slower right now. I routinely have stuff show up in 2 days for the house. Maybe the world is telling me what to actually focus on? Haha

Those feed through bushings are straight off of Amazon. They worked great and came with boots too.

[Sbeck09]

Somehow I was on a roll last night and knocked out a few outstanding items I mentioned in the last post.

First up was finishing the fuel filler I made. I made up a quick bracket on my new drill press and welded that to the driver's side rear down bar. The neck is removable with the 3 original bolts just like when it was inside the fender. It all still needs to be painted, but it fits well and I suspect it will work perfectly. Best part about it is this whole thing cost about $50 to make which is way less than any other filler I found.

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Then onto the mufflers. Now I personally like it fairly loud, but most people don't. In the interest of not attracting too much negative attention and hopefully avoiding most track decibel thresholds I bought these Borla mufflers. They are pretty light for a stainless muffler and kill a lot of sound while leaving that nice bark you expect at WOT.

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For now they will just be slipped on like you see. I want to come up with a simple way of swapping mufflers without much hassle depending on my mood or the requirements of where I'm running. The crap on the tube is from another muffler, not these leaking.

The turn downs I made myself out of some 45 degree bends. I bought a new gas lens setup to try and get better results out of TIG welding. It definitely helped more than I expected, but I'm also running way too hot. It's a bad habit of mine when TIG welding. To be fair, for about the last 10 years I rarely pick up a TIG torch so I'm seriously rusty. Some practice will go a long way, as with anything.

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So there you go internet, my welds for you to all complain about. Haha

Heater hoses are on for good now and tonight I'll go for the first drive in about 2 weeks so I'm looking forward to that. Now I can dive back into the other finishing items that have been neglected lately.

[JayinMI]

Our window tinter just got a new Tundra. He went with Borla mufflers on it, and said they were quieter than stock under normal loads, but still sounded good when you gave it some pedal. Sounds like you found about the same.

When I'm driving down the freeway, I'd like it to be as quiet as possible, but when I get on it, I'd like people to look to see where the sound is coming from. lol

Jay

[Sbeck09]

Part of it is this motor, I believe. Some engines just seem to be louder than others for any number of reasons. A decent muffler seems to knock this thing right down. For your purposes I have to recommend the Flowmaster Hushpower. Every engine I have used them with has had the exact sound behavior you just mentioned. But these Borlas appear to be about the same at a slighly lower price. I'm going for a short drive this evening so that will help me have a better idea.

[JayinMI]

I'll look into them. Thanks for the recommendation.

Jay

[Sbeck09]

Well a short 12 minute cruise is all I had time for. I can say that these are very mellow when holding steady cruising speeds and have a nice smooth roar at WOT. Definitely not super obnoxious under any condition.

[Sbeck09]

Took the truck to run a bunch of unimportant errands last Saturday and it performed fantastic! Cooling system easily handled mixed driving in 95 degree heat and the new mufflers don't really have much drone and really do calm the sound down all around.

95 was a bit warm for me sitting in those race seats with the engine that tight on the firewall so the quest to complete the AC system is on. I've had all the main components installed for a while, but actually plumbing and wiring it all hasn't been a major priority. Turns out that I only needed 3 wires and making the hoses was incredibly easy.

When I ordered the AC components from Vintage Air I saw they sold the hose crimping tool for a reasonable amount of money. So being the DIYer that I am, I had to have it. It's been sitting on a shelf waiting for it's time to shine, but I expected it to be harder than it was.

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You can see there that a socket/ratchet with the crimper in a vise produces a nice looking result. And it isn't super difficult either. I figured I'd be all worn out from the strain, but everything is clearly marked and the tools do most of the work.

I used their dryer with a trinary switch for my electric fans. This was also something I was thinking would be tricky, but after studying the wiring this is actually very simple to do. That being said, I am slightly increasing the complexity by routing the wiring through my Smartwire box so that the CAN network will allow the fans to be controlled via solid state along with compressor shutdown above certain RPM or throttle position. Unfortunately I lost my pins so I'm waiting for more to arrive.

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The big question is will it leak? I'll pull vacuum on the system once the wiring is done in a couple days and find out with a leakdown test. I feel confident that everything is sealed. I'm very excited to see how well it performs. Especially since as I type this it is 107 outside.

[SSLance]

I'm happy to hear you have AC line building tools and know how Sean. I've been wanting to replace the 35 year old OEM AC lines on my car for a long time.

[Sbeck09]

Well Lance you do know where I live now and it would be nice to see these tools used more than once a decade. Come on down!

[SSLance]

I have got to get rid of this OEM line running across the top of the engine. Would like to run the hoses from the compressor and condenser up in front of core support and over to the dryer and evaporator on the passenger side.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2020/05/20190912_093101L-1.jpg

How do I figure out what size hoses and connectors I'll need?

[Sbeck09]

My system from Vintage Air utilized 3 sizes of fittings/hoses. #6, #8, and #10. I'm not sure what fittings yours uses looking at the pic, but I would imagine we can get adapters if needed to utilize the leftover fittings I already have or a fresh hose kit altogether, which wasn't very expensive. I'll have to swing by and look it over so we can formulate a better plan.

[RMMiller]

I have got to get rid of this OEM line running across the top of the engine. Would like to run the hoses from the compressor and condenser up in front of core support and over to the dryer and evaporator on the passenger side.



How do I figure out what size hoses and connectors I'll need?

If you look at the hose across the engine it has a part number 7631-12 and then 5/8, -12 indicated 3/4 and 5/8 is the ID which matches the ID of the tubes on the fittings. I imagine your other hoses have that same info on them.

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[SSLance]

Good idea, I'll check for part numbers on all hoses then try to decipher fitting sizes from there. Thanks...

[RMMiller]

Good idea, I'll check for part numbers on all hoses then try to decipher fitting sizes from there. Thanks...

You can reuse the fittings if they will work with your revised routing, just need new crimp sleeves.

[Sbeck09]

Quick update,

I got the Vintage Air AC charged and blowing cold. Honestly, I'm super impressed with all their documentation an the overall ease of installation. It is kinda weird to me now that I'm sitting in basically a racetruck with the windows up and cold air blowing. I could totally get used to this. The main area I deviated from the normal wiring on was passing compressor control through my Smartwire so the CANbus is signaling when the shutdown is, just like a modern production vehicle. I continue to be very impressed with how well the Smartwire can integrate into a build, streamlining the wiring.

So with all that I need to run the ducts on the passenger side which prompted me to just finish that dash plate all together. Here is a cool startup pic for those that haven't seen it on social media.

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It's basic and only includes what I need. Which is exactly what I was going for.

Now I need to seal up a couple areas from leaking in hot air while driving and complete the windshield wiper/washer wiring and that will mean wiring is 100% done! Wait...not true. Andrew talked me into doing DBW, but that is plug 'n' play. More on that fun later.

[Sbeck09]

This one is good news and bad news both. And maybe you guys can help.

Let's start with the good.

WE GOT A BUMPER!!! The aftermarket was a total bust so I started looking at alternative options. This "6.4 swap" is all the rage with the lifted trucks and I started thinking it might work for me too.

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You do need totally different brackets, but it does fit decent. Obviously I'll be making filler panels for the giant holes, but it is way lighter than the original bumper so I'm feeling good about it all around. It's almost kinda weird to me seeing it with a bumper again.

For the bad, I'm having problems keeping this thing cool now. I took it to get tacos last night after installing the bumper so I could feel the AC (which is AMAZING) and just drive the thing. The new foster kitty even kept an eye on things while the truck warmed up. We agreed that everything seemed perfect.

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It was a short trip that normally has the truck see roughly 205 degrees of water temp at most. Last night it was above 210 fairly consistently, and even at 20mph in the neighborhood, the temp climbed to 220 degrees and didn't appear to be stopping there. Could my removing the expansion tank have made that much different with the added heat load from the AC? The condenser has always been there, but not in use. Any tips or suggestions on how some of you keep temps in check with Vintage Air?

Other than that this truck is really coming together and I'm so excited to be only doing little things to refine it now. For the record, driving a race car/truck on the street with cold AC is the most strange and awesome thing!

[frink84]

For the bad, I'm having problems keeping this thing cool now. I took it to get tacos last night after installing the bumper so I could feel the AC (which is AMAZING) and just drive the thing. The new foster kitty even kept an eye on things while the truck warmed up. We agreed that everything seemed perfect.

It was a short trip that normally has the truck see roughly 205 degrees of water temp at most. Last night it was above 210 fairly consistently, and even at 20mph in the neighborhood, the temp climbed to 220 degrees and didn't appear to be stopping there. Could my removing the expansion tank have made that much different with the added heat load from the AC? The condenser has always been there, but not in use. Any tips or suggestions on how some of you keep temps in check with Vintage Air?

Thats weird because back a few posts ago you posted this:


Took the truck to run a bunch of unimportant errands last Saturday and it performed fantastic! Cooling system easily handled mixed driving in 95 degree heat and the new mufflers don't really have much drone and really do calm the sound down all around.

And I didn't see a post about removing the expansion tank between those two so I'm curious what changed.

Couple of questions to get the troubleshooting started:

Do the fans turn on? They should be able to turn on at speeds below ~40mph IIRC.
Do the fans have multiple stages based on coolant temp?
Does it get cooler at speeds above 40mph? Sounds like you might not have driven that fast, but might as well ask.
That earlier post when it was running cool, was that pre-bumper? Perhaps the new bumper has something to do with your cooling issues. I know some cars are setup as bottom breathers (fox mustangs and c5+ corvettes, for example), haven't been paying attention enough to know which way your truck is set up.
Does turning off the AC cause it to cool down?
So if theres no expansion tank, what does the system do when it has excess fluid or fluid needs? OEMs have expansion tanks/catch cans (they are different) for a reason.

[Sbeck09]

All good questions.

-Fans both work. I have them set to be on as-needed under 35mph. 1 fan is also programmed to come on as the trinary switch needs for AC.
-They are single speed fans, but I have one set to come on 15 degrees before the other. First fan comes on at 190F. The suspicion is that they don't draw enough air through to keep up with the added demand from AC.
-I only noticed coolant temps creeping up when I hit my neighborhood so that would cause me to believe it's more the fan than the actual cooling system. I can't go more than 25mph on my street due to speed bumps so definitely no natural airflow.
-Earlier when it was running at a stable temp that was before AC charging and use or the bumper. Guess changing 2 things at once kinda shot me in the foot. These trucks were designed to draw air through the main grill and mine still does.
-I didn't really drive without the AC to find out if that brings temps back down. That's mostly because it's unbearable to drive with our daily temperature at 110F+ right now. I guess I need to suck it up and test this.
-The system holds about 3 gallons of water as is. I have a 1qt catch can that allows the overflow water to be sucked back in.

Thanks for going over this with me. If you think of anything else I'm open to more ideas.

[Sbeck09]

Went for another drive last night to try and verify some theories.

-Temps rise like normal
-As long as I'm driving before it hits about 190f everything seems to be stable even with AC on.
-Water level in the radiator was totally fine.
-Driving over 50mph seems to stabilize temps even with AC blasting. I'm sure ducting the front air through all the coolers would also help, but that's not number 1 on the list right now since we know it will cool the engine perfectly fine.
-Turned AC off in the neighborhood and after a couple min with both fans on, it slowly started bringing the temps back down even only going 20mph. I'd say this is the good sign I was looking for.

I also suspect my fully enclosed fan shroud doesn't help either and I've always had plans to fix that issue, but it really seems like a totally different fan setup that draws way more air is what I need. Andrew suggested the C7 corvette fan since it is PWM controlled and around 70A of power or something crazy. If you guys can think of anything else to check or try let me know. I have just over a month until the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in Bowling Green, KY so the pressure is on.

[WallaceMFG]

What brand fans are you running? I've talked to a bunch of cooling people and you'd be surprised how many bad electric fans are out there. A lot of the CFM ratings advertised are with the fan free spinning with no restriction in front of it. Most fans can only do a fraction of their advertised CFM rating once they have resistance (AKA radiator, condenser, etc...) in front of them. SPAL fans will pretty much always meet their rated CFM even with a rad, Maradyne and Derale are very close as well. Other brands can be really bad (like less than 50% advertised CFM).

Also, what coolant are you running? Mix ratios can play a big role in cooling capacity. Also what temp thermostat?

A fully enclosed fan shroud is not a completely bad thing, but can be fixed. When you are moving slow you want as much air as possible going through the core to exchange the heat. The full shroud lets the fans pull all the air they can through the core. Once you get to higher speeds (40+) then the fans cannot create more airflow than is coming through the rad and things change. Since the fans cannot be "pushed" faster than they are commanded to run they can block airflow. There are two easy ways to remedy this, putting trapdoors in the shroud, or turning the fans off allowing them to freewheel. Both of those options allow more airflow through the rad at high speeds and keep things cool. Once you slow down and the fans are not blocking airflow the trapdoors close and all air is sent through the core (or fans are turned back on). Most modern OEMs use one or both of the things mentioned above to help manage temps.

Your issue seems to be more with the low speed than the high speed since it seems to cool at normal road speeds. A/C does put a lot of head into the cooling system and can he hard to dissipate quickly. What brand rad and how many cores?

If you have more questions feel free to text me (480-440-6202), always willing to help. I've spent a lot of time at work with thermal engineers ( I work for GM at the Desert Proving Grounds lol).

[frink84]

Reading through your notes and WallaceMFG's comments, I'm thinking your next step is here:


1 fan is also programmed to come on as the trinary switch needs for AC.

Kick both fans on when the AC is on and see what happens. It seems pretty obvious its a low-speed AC-on only issue.

[Sbeck09]

I appreciate you helping.

My new radiator came as a "kit" with the radiator, shroud, and 2 14" puller fans. I'm guessing these are no-name china special fans by the look at feel of them. This also is why I am convinced I might just not have enough airflow at low speed because they can't pull air through 3 layers of coolers. I have a Champion 4 row radiator, the largest Vintage Air condenser they offer, and the Earl's power steering and oil coolers in front of that. So there is definitely some heavy heat loads coming through when everything is at operating temp.

With road racing cars we never ran shrouds, only a Spal fan strapped to the back of the radiator to allow the best airflow possible. I actually have the rubber flaps to vent my current shroud at speed, but it seems like switching fans to a single, larger fan with PWM control would better meet the need anyway. For my current setup I have the fans programmed to shut off if my speed is above 35mph. I also staggered their on-points, but have been using my override button lately which runs them both. I guess I never realized how much heat a functioning AC condenser adds to an already hot system. I can call this another lesson learned.

I'll shoot you a text, thanks so much for that!

[frink84]

I would look into OEM fans to replace the twin aftermarket. I have the V6 Contour dual fan setup on my fox and it MOVES air at the "high" setting.

[WallaceMFG]

No problem, do my best to help. Living in AZ you can't skimp on cooling or you can't drive your cars 8 months out of the year haha.

I agree with Frink84, try wiring up both of your fans to come on with the A/C and see what that gets you. The fans are certainly suspect at this point since from your descriptions your issues don't start until you slow down. Might need to go with some known good brand fans (SPAL or Maradyne) to get more airflow. Seems like you have the rest of the shroud setup fine with the flaps and road speed shutoffs.

PWM controllers are definitely good, we run them on both our cars and they work great. I personally don't really like fans without shrouds for street cars, but I know there are some good ones out there. I think going to a single fan without shroud in this case might hurt you rather than help you street driving unless the fan can move a ridiculous amount of air.

Just some food for thought, let us know if you find anything.

[Sbeck09]

Yeah AZ definitely puts cooling systems on notice. I had some fights with my E36 back when I first moved here and installed a stroker motor. Ironically it was mainly a cooling fan issue back then too. One day maybe I'll learn to go for a good fan from day one. haha

With Andrew's direct guidance I just ordered the C7 Corvette OEM fan. It is a 500w (~50a) brushless motor and we will use my Holley Dominator ECU to do PWM control. It also has the integrated flaps that open at speed and is designed for a radiator core roughly the same size so this should be the ticket. Plus it's pretty cost effective at only $278 brand new. It's basically the more modern version of the Contour fan swap. Which is also ironic to me since the Contour was a TERRIBLE car. We had 2 in the family back when they were in production and both spent more time getting repaired than in the driveway.

From here if we are still fighting temps I'll add an expansion tank back into the system, but as a real swirl pot instead of a holding tank. I really don't think I'll need to do this.

[SSLance]

The fans on my car came from a Dodge Intrepid, another HORRIBLE car...

[blade]

I had a cooling issue on my 85 Mustang when I switched over to a contour fan. The car would overheat at low speed or when sitting. I ended up adding extra foam around the edges of the fan shroud and that eliminated the overheating. The gaps were small, i would say around a quarter inch or less, just enough to cause a problem.

[SonomaZ]

I'll echo what blade said above. Proper shrouding can make a HUGE difference in cooling.
Getting every bit of air possible through the radiator instead of around it is the goal.
This is especially important at low speeds when you don't have any "ram air" from forward motion, and just relying on your fans.

I'm a little late to the "CONGRATS! party" but both the truck and the new property/shop look great.

Hopefully I will eventually join the ranks of "race truck with A/C" one of these years.
Definitely have been living vicariously through your build. Great work!

[Sbeck09]

I had a cooling issue on my 85 Mustang when I switched over to a contour fan. The car would overheat at low speed or when sitting. I ended up adding extra foam around the edges of the fan shroud and that eliminated the overheating. The gaps were small, i would say around a quarter inch or less, just enough to cause a problem.


I'll echo what blade said above. Proper shrouding can make a HUGE difference in cooling.
Getting every bit of air possible through the radiator instead of around it is the goal.
This is especially important at low speeds when you don't have any "ram air" from forward motion, and just relying on your fans.

I'm a little late to the "CONGRATS! party" but both the truck and the new property/shop look great.

Hopefully I will eventually join the ranks of "race truck with A/C" one of these years.
Definitely have been living vicariously through your build. Great work!

Thank you both for the insight. I definitely need to attack the ducting on the nose of this truck. It was one of those things that got ignored in order to get the truck moving. I didn't think a 1/4" gap would matter that much, but I suppose it does and I will be sure to keep everything tight. The plan is to block any unused openings and fully duct any necessary openings on the front of the truck. I know that will really help when moving. My biggest airflow fail is with the new bumper. The lower portion is stirring up incoming air and letting it run under the truck rather than up to the radiator. That will be a pretty easy fix.

And thanks for the kind words! It's still a bit odd to me to have a roll cage with harnesses, but be totally comfy inside on a 110 degree day. I highly recommend it!:headbang:

[Sbeck09]

Ok a few things going on. First up, TIRES!! I have needed tires since I bought these Roush 18x10 wheels over a year ago, but never took the time to do it. The BFGs that were already mounted held air great, but were 12 years old and had seen some time in the brutal AZ sun so they were rock hard. While this allowed for entertaining wheel spin on command it doesn't really help anything when you're trying to make a truck handle like a sports car. So to get me by I found a great deal on some Falken Azenis tires in a 285/35/18.

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Side note: this is still one of my favorite views of the truck. I love seeing that IRS in there with fresh paint and all the billet upgrades. No regrets on doing the work, which wasn't even that bad.

Once I purchase real 18x11 wheels in the correct offset for my setup I will move to a 315 BFG Rival. Already the truck is a different animal being able to hook in 2nd gear when it just spun like crazy before. I'm looking for some local events asap to see how these do. The Pro Touring Truck Shootout is also still on my agenda in 1 month (YIKES!) but I'm watching carefully due to a number of guys having already pulled out.

Somehow I forgot to share with you all that I finally got a bumper too! What a mess it has been to avoid the 70lbs beast that was originally on these trucks. This is known as the 6.4 swap due to the bumper being from the 2008-10 F250. Not hard at all to install and seriously looks right at home on this old truck. Don't worry, it will get the big openings closed/ducted along with some trim to actually look right. I'm just excited that it looks like a complete truck now.:bananna2:

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Then back to the cooling struggles I've had at low speed. Andrew suggested a real PWM fan setup and specifically the C7 Corvette because the controller is integrated and it's a genuine Spal fan for under $300. Hard to argue with that when we know my dual 11" no-name fans and enclosed aluminum shroud are not doing the job. I've wanted to leverage the PWM capabilities of the Holley EFI since I installed it anyway. Win-win.

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Yes I'm well aware that this does not cover the entire core. It doesn't in the Corvette it was designed for either. Even I had to be reminded that this fan has been successfully cooling 700-800hp supercharged C7s for years in traffic with AC (heat soak for days). I imagine it will do well for my little 520hp small block. Just look at that 8ga wiring to power the 500w this thing demands at full rip! If we still see the need for more cooling under 30mph the next step is the 850w CTS-V fan that is nearly the same size radiator core. After we test this evening I'll go beat on the truck tomorrow and see how it does before reporting back.

[Sbeck09]

My hat is off to Andrew. He knocked it out of the park on this one! Yesterday afternoon we jumped online together and he was able to program the new fan while I made sure everything was wired correctly and ready to test. After we walked through some manual tests that went very well, I fired up the truck and brought it up to operating temperature. Then I turned on the AC to about 60% fan speed and just let the truck idle in about 105 degree heat. Previously the little fans I had would quickly become a problem allowing the water temps to sail past 220 if I let it, but this time it was an entirely different story. The new fan never went past 60% speed and easily held the water temps from 185 to 189. It's that smooth at controlling temps! My mind is blown and I'm excited to drive this truck again without stressing every time I have to slow down.

I really can't say enough good things about working with Andrew throughout this project and I would HIGHLY recommend his services if you have a Holley EFI system.

[CamaroAJ]

Sorry I didn't come visit this thread again sooner or I would have told you to skip the C7 fan and go CTS-V. The C7 fan is a 600w 16" fan. The CTS-V fan is 850w and 19" and comes in a bigger shroud that would have fit your radiator better and has flap doors to let air out when driving and the fan isn't needed. It is a direct plug and play replacement electrical wise for a C7 fan if you come across one it might be worth looking into. New they are like $330.

That is a C7 radiator under the fan to give you an idea how much bigger it is.
https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/11/12/fan.md.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/Btwci)

[Sbeck09]

Sorry I didn't come visit this thread again sooner or I would have told you to skip the C7 fan and go CTS-V. The C7 fan is a 600w 16" fan. The CTS-V fan is 850w and 19" and comes in a bigger shroud that would have fit your radiator better and has flap doors to let air out when driving and the fan isn't needed. It is a direct plug and play replacement electrical wise for a C7 fan if you come across one it might be worth looking into. New they are like $330.

Funny you mention this, and thank you for bringing it up. Andrew and I went back and forth for almost half a day when he told me this monster existed. I had just received the C7 fan and I was concerned the smaller shroud wouldn't be enough. I came within 30 seconds of returning the C7 fan in favor of the CTS-V unit. They both offer the same features (Spal brand, speed flaps, plug, low price, etc.), but the CTS-V fan definitely comes very close to being a perfect fit for my radiator core. Had I known about it up front I would have easily gone with that. Maybe down the line I'll swap if too good of a deal comes up, but this C7 fan has already been VERY impressive. I did make sure to leave enough length on my wires to reach just in case.

The other day I drove around town for food and had the AC blasting on a 111 degree day. The highest temp I saw the entire time was 197 and it came straight back to average 193-195 for the rest of the drive. Fan speed still never went over 65%. These modern PWM controlled fans are incredibly good at maintaining stable temps! I don't baby this thing when I take it out either.

[CamaroAJ]

Funny you mention this, and thank you for bringing it up. Andrew and I went back and forth for almost half a day when he told me this monster existed. I had just received the C7 fan and I was concerned the smaller shroud wouldn't be enough. I came within 30 seconds of returning the C7 fan in favor of the CTS-V unit. They both offer the same features (Spal brand, speed flaps, plug, low price, etc.), but the CTS-V fan definitely comes very close to being a perfect fit for my radiator core. Had I known about it up front I would have easily gone with that. Maybe down the line I'll swap if too good of a deal comes up, but this C7 fan has already been VERY impressive. I did make sure to leave enough length on my wires to reach just in case.

The other day I drove around town for food and had the AC blasting on a 111 degree day. The highest temp I saw the entire time was 197 and it came straight back to average 193-195 for the rest of the drive. Fan speed still never went over 65%. These modern PWM controlled fans are incredibly good at maintaining stable temps! I don't baby this thing when I take it out either.

Dewitts takes one and modifies it to fit their shroud to replaced the C7 fan with so theres that. The C7 has some cooling issues, but its not because of the fan or radiator. It doesn't have very good air flow from the front and add in the condenser and heat exchanger and you get a C7 Z06 that over heats on track days. The draw back you have with that fan in your car now is it does't cover the whole surface which makes some hot spots in the core. You could build a bigger shroud for your C7 fan to save money. They do sell the rubber flaps to add to it so the air blows through when driving and the fan off. Seeing as you're only at 65% PWM you should be ok, the hood vents are really helping out there too. Start stop traffic with the A/C on would be something to double check as well, I've seen lots of cars that are fine with normal driving and some aggressive driving get hot in traffic.

[Sbeck09]

Dewitts takes one and modifies it to fit their shroud to replaced the C7 fan with so theres that. The C7 has some cooling issues, but its not because of the fan or radiator. It doesn't have very good air flow from the front and add in the condenser and heat exchanger and you get a C7 Z06 that over heats on track days. The draw back you have with that fan in your car now is it does't cover the whole surface which makes some hot spots in the core. You could build a bigger shroud for your C7 fan to save money. They do sell the rubber flaps to add to it so the air blows through when driving and the fan off. Seeing as you're only at 65% PWM you should be ok, the hood vents are really helping out there too. Start stop traffic with the A/C on would be something to double check as well, I've seen lots of cars that are fine with normal driving and some aggressive driving get hot in traffic.

That Detwitts fan is insane in a good way, but at about $1000 it is far more expensive. I know the C7 cooling issues are most commonly from hard driving and I feel like the Z06 heat exchanger is a big part of it. The NA cars run all the same equipment without the cooling problems. This one of the 3 main reasons you won't see me running any boost.

I also agree about the potential for hot spots in the radiator. That was my primary concern about sticking to this C7 fan. Luckily my CTS is in the intake base so the reading is the engine water temperature, not the radiator. Even though I likely have hotter spots in the radiator, the overall result is exactly what I wanted - a lower average engine temp.:)

For any of you reading this and thinking about the same thing or dealing with similar issues, yes, I agree that the bigger radiator cores most of us have would be perfect for the CTS-V fan. If I was starting this project over that is what I would buy. Then call Andrew and hire him to program it along with doing your Holley EFI tuning!:cheers:

[Sbeck09]

wow! Looks good. Did you do something with color of your car?

Not yet. Fresh color is most likely going to have to wait until I get back from the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in KY. I'm out of time with 29 days to go and the last couple things for functionality gotta come first. That means make a few vanity panels in the interior to seal out the last of the hot air and create front end ducting to the coolers.

[CamaroAJ]

That Detwitts fan is insane in a good way, but at about $1000 it is far more expensive. I know the C7 cooling issues are most commonly from hard driving and I feel like the Z06 heat exchanger is a big part of it. The NA cars run all the same equipment without the cooling problems. This one of the 3 main reasons you won't see me running any boost.

I also agree about the potential for hot spots in the radiator. That was my primary concern about sticking to this C7 fan. Luckily my CTS is in the intake base so the reading is the engine water temperature, not the radiator. Even though I likely have hotter spots in the radiator, the overall result is exactly what I wanted - a lower average engine temp.:)

For any of you reading this and thinking about the same thing or dealing with similar issues, yes, I agree that the bigger radiator cores most of us have would be perfect for the CTS-V fan. If I was starting this project over that is what I would buy. Then call Andrew and hire him to program it along with doing your Holley EFI tuning!:cheers:

Yeah its for sure expensive. Thats why I bought a CTS-V fan and modified it and made my own upper shroud. I'm running boost, but I'm running a oil cooler for a heat exchanger ducted off the side so there is nothing blocking my condenser and radiator.

I think if you build a box for your radiator and modify your fan housing you should have more then enough fan to keep it cool. The trick is to get it sealed off so it doesn't suck air from around the radiator instead of through it.

[Sbeck09]

Wow it's been a whirlwind of a couple weeks. I do about 9-10hrs at my day job then out to the shop for about 6hrs. I'm ready for some kind of vacation.

Ok so with the Pro Touring Truck Shootout quickly approaching I needed a trailer to make the 1760 mile tow each way. Turns out aluminum trailers are hard to find in-stock right now and backorders are about 16 weeks, but luckily I found a local place with 2 left. Due to the limited tow capacity of my RV I had to go as light as possible.

178114

That meant I had the ability to now get there so the truck needed a few things to really be ready to compete. First up was the intake. When I first got it running I just shoved on a cone filter and moved onto other things. Well with the summer heat and now badass fan I needed to stop sucking in crazy hot air. So I made a quick CAI to help a bit.

178115

Then I needed to tackle front air management. I believe with the position of the radiator and bumper that about 70% of the air coming through the bumper actually goes under truck since it will want to follow the path of least resistance. That should further assist everything working optimally at speed.

So I started off with my favorite template material, Ram Board.

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After a couple long evenings of fitting and cutting I got the result I was looking for.

178117

Then that made me want to help reduce the potential for debris to take out my radiator so I decided it would be smart to just make covers for all the bumper openings.

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I think that is a massive improvement and only adds 3lbs. Win-win.

While I had the truck down for these items the steering arms starting nagging at my brain again. Even though the modifications I made way back have worked pretty well, I still haven't had much Ackermann and the outer heims are maxed during full droop. Unfortunately the ONE guy that used to make correct front-steer arms stopped 6yrs ago and absolutely refuses to make them or send me CNC files even if I pay. So I decided I would order the TRZ arms and see if I could mill them down and create Ackermann since theirs have dead zero.

178119

Ah if only it were that easy. If you pay attention you can see it just kisses the barrel of my 18" wheels. So I started to cut them shorter and make it work, but spending $200 to them modify them when I could modify my steel arms for free got the better of me.

So this past Saturday my friend Tanner came by and helped A LOT with correcting the Camaro arms. Remember, these are the Ridetech tall spindles. Looking back, there was probably better options, but they are all significantly more expensive. Now I definitely have Ackermann and it all clears with some room to spare. And yes, we were very careful when welding these. they are forged steel and I beveled 70% of the thickness before we welded them together. Tanner actually welded, ground down the weld about 1/3 of the way and made another pass. Then we let them very slowly cool. My mind will blow if these don't hold up.

Just to show that there was no porosity or anything like that, here are the arms just after I 120 grit flapper-wheeled them clean. I did not reduce the size of the arm at all, only ground the surface of the weld flush, just like before.

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While those were cooling and then drying from paint I started back to operation: polish a turd. This truck was a daily beater for the old man (detailed more in the intro) so the clear coat is chipping badly and there is plenty of dents and dings. I'm not spending too much time perfecting those. Mainly popping out the big stuff and then painting. One area I've wanted to paint was the bed. I considered just using black paint, but it turns out you can get bedliner in a spray can. So I tried it.

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I like it! Little tricky to spray and I highly doubt it would hold up to daily abuse, but for this it is perfect. Funny enough, half my class at PTTS doesn't even have a bed floor. I can still haul stuff while hauling ass. :bananna2::moon:

Finally for this update, I got the DBW (drive by wire) conversion done. Andrew talked me into this about 3 months ago, but I've never taken the time to make a bracket and run the wiring. Took an afternoon to do, but I made the GM pedal bolt to the factory spot nice and rigid.

178122

I will admit it's a little closer to the brake pedal than I intended, but it works well and heel-toe is stupid easy. Andrew worked his magic for idle and ramping. Seriously...if you run Holley EFI, hiring Andrew is VERY worth it. This truck starts, runs, and drives as good as any modern vehicle. Only I now have 520 gas guzzling horsepower on tap with room to grow.

Keep an eye out for the next update with a wrap and new wheel reveal!:ssst:

[loudandproud]

Wow it's been a whirlwind of a couple weeks. I do about 9-10hrs at my day job then out to the shop for about 6hrs. I'm ready for some kind of vacation.

Ok so with the Pro Touring Truck Shootout quickly approaching I needed a trailer to make the 1760 mile tow each way. Turns out aluminum trailers are hard to find in-stock right now and backorders are about 16 weeks, but luckily I found a local place with 2 left. Due to the limited tow capacity of my RV I had to go as light as possible.

178114

That meant I had the ability to now get there so the truck needed a few things to really be ready to compete. First up was the intake. When I first got it running I just shoved on a cone filter and moved onto other things. Well with the summer heat and now badass fan I needed to stop sucking in crazy hot air. So I made a quick CAI to help a bit.

178115

Then I needed to tackle front air management. I believe with the position of the radiator and bumper that about 70% of the air coming through the bumper actually goes under truck since it will want to follow the path of least resistance. That should further assist everything working optimally at speed.

So I started off with my favorite template material, Ram Board.

178116

After a couple long evenings of fitting and cutting I got the result I was looking for.

178117

Then that made me want to help reduce the potential for debris to take out my radiator so I decided it would be smart to just make covers for all the bumper openings.

178118

I think that is a massive improvement and only adds 3lbs. Win-win.

While I had the truck down for these items the steering arms starting nagging at my brain again. Even though the modifications I made way back have worked pretty well, I still haven't had much Ackermann and the outer heims are maxed during full droop. Unfortunately the ONE guy that used to make correct front-steer arms stopped 6yrs ago and absolutely refuses to make them or send me CNC files even if I pay. So I decided I would order the TRZ arms and see if I could mill them down and create Ackermann since theirs have dead zero.

178119

Ah if only it were that easy. If you pay attention you can see it just kisses the barrel of my 18" wheels. So I started to cut them shorter and make it work, but spending $200 to them modify them when I could modify my steel arms for free got the better of me.

So this past Saturday my friend Tanner came by and helped A LOT with correcting the Camaro arms. Remember, these are the Ridetech tall spindles. Looking back, there was probably better options, but they are all significantly more expensive. Now I definitely have Ackermann and it all clears with some room to spare. And yes, we were very careful when welding these. they are forged steel and I beveled 70% of the thickness before we welded them together. Tanner actually welded, ground down the weld about 1/3 of the way and made another pass. Then we let them very slowly cool. My mind will blow if these don't hold up.

Just to show that there was no porosity or anything like that, here are the arms just after I 120 grit flapper-wheeled them clean. I did not reduce the size of the arm at all, only ground the surface of the weld flush, just like before.

178120


While those were cooling and then drying from paint I started back to operation: polish a turd. This truck was a daily beater for the old man (detailed more in the intro) so the clear coat is chipping badly and there is plenty of dents and dings. I'm not spending too much time perfecting those. Mainly popping out the big stuff and then painting. One area I've wanted to paint was the bed. I considered just using black paint, but it turns out you can get bedliner in a spray can. So I tried it.

178121

I like it! Little tricky to spray and I highly doubt it would hold up to daily abuse, but for this it is perfect. Funny enough, half my class at PTTS doesn't even have a bed floor. I can still haul stuff while hauling ass. :bananna2::moon:

Finally for this update, I got the DBW (drive by wire) conversion done. Andrew talked me into this about 3 months ago, but I've never taken the time to make a bracket and run the wiring. Took an afternoon to do, but I made the GM pedal bolt to the factory spot nice and rigid.

178122

I will admit it's a little closer to the brake pedal than I intended, but it works well and heel-toe is stupid easy. Andrew worked his magic for idle and ramping. Seriously...if you run Holley EFI, hiring Andrew is VERY worth it. This truck starts, runs, and drives as good as any modern vehicle. Only I now have 520 gas guzzling horsepower on tap with room to grow.

Keep an eye out for the next update with a wrap and new wheel reveal!:ssst:


This is sick. Im glad to see someone else spending so much time and money on one of these trucks. People look at me crazy when I tell them I'm building an OBS chevy lol, glad to see i have a ford cousin doing the same.

[Sbeck09]

This is sick. Im glad to see someone else spending so much time and money on one of these trucks. People look at me crazy when I tell them I'm building an OBS chevy lol, glad to see i have a ford cousin doing the same.

Thanks! It's a bit nauseating to realize how much time (about 1200hrs) and money is in a truck that someone wouldn't even give $3,000 for when stock. For me it has been about learning and experimenting. Plus I do love the wild looks I get when people ask me what's done and I start in on the massive list. It's hard for people to wrap their head around building a truck for this purpose and I've always been a fan of odd builds with real thought.

Yours has been fun to follow too, especially with the DCT developments. Building the frame yourself was a smart move. I would have saved about 200lbs off the truck and 3-5 months of build time if I had just built a frame from scratch. I think you'll have a sweet advantage over many of the OBS builds as a result.

The truck game is growing really fast these days and it feels cool to be a part of it. Now we are getting events like the Pro Touring Truck Shootout that cater the event and classes to what the trucks can do which should further shine a light on this realm.

[Sbeck09]

:attn:Hey everyone,

With the growth of the trucks in this segment it was only a matter of time before an event was born solely in our interest. I realize many people still think building a truck to do car things is silly, but you probably wouldn't have come this far in my thread if you do.

A bit over a year ago such an event was born and I couldn't miss out!

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So for those of you that want to see the new, beautified version of this truck FINALLY competing you can tune in live this weekend. I am hoping we can start doing more of these events in more places in the future. To show support I've made the nearly 1800 mile tow. I'll share more on the final updates to the truck and the results when I have time after the event. I wanted to wait until everyone showed up for the reveal. I think you will all be VERY surprised.

And no, we ain't even close to done. I had to pick the most important pieces to accomplish before loading up. Hopefully myself and my other 80 crazy truck building friends can provide ample motorsport entertainment for some of you this weekend. I've already seen that I'm one of the biggest ****-talkers and absolutely the "class clown."

[Sbeck09]

Wow what a weekend and really what a trip overall! I would say that Arnie and the crew did a kickass job putting on the Protouring Truck Shootout. Everyone, including me, is already planning on attending the next one when it is announced later on. Seriously, if you like grassroots motorsport events and seeing cool old trucks getting beat on, this is a MUST attend event.

Ok so for how the truck did. In a word, impressive! Remember, this was the first real competitive beating the truck has had (thanks Covid). It didn't miss a beat all weekend. I think the biggest thanks has to go out to Andrew. His tuning brilliance on Holley EFI systems has this motor happy as can be. I saw the 6600 rpm rev limiter a couple times and absolutely used every bit of RPM I had all weekend. Sure, Duffee Motorsports built a solid motor, but you can kill anything with bad tuning and this little Ford just ate. And even in this VERY safe tune provided this truck was viciously fast....when I had traction.

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While I didn't place like I would have on Saturday, I dropped 13.3 seconds over 7 laps for a best of 47.1 seconds while my class average was about 45 seconds. The FTD that day was Rob Mcgregor (No Limit Engineering) in Hellboy with a 40.1 second lap. On Sunday I struggled to nail my braking zone for the Speed N Stop and only got a best of 18.8 seconds while FTD was 15.3 seconds. But I don't look at this as bad at all. On my first time in such an experimental build I was seeing huge reductions in time and I was learning the limits of both myself and the hardware.

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There is some items I want to change, but they are minimal. I want to up the spring rate all around since the best grip I had all weekend was with my shocks totally turned up (thanks Jesse from Level 7 for the pointers). Currently I run 550 front and 450 rear. I'm going to put the 550s on the rear and jump up to an 800 front. I also want to pull out a bit of rear camber to help with straight line bite since I ran this event with it set at 2.0 degrees and I don't think I needed it that aggressive. I suspect there is some other changes I can make since my biggest complaint was a mid-corner push that I am still noticing even on the street. I'll be reaching out to some of my circle for assistance.

NCM Motorsports Park has a 103db limit for sound and a ton of guys got popped for it all weekend. Somehow I didn't so that was a nice surprise because I had to be close. Seems like most of the issue was with the builds running big cams and side exit exhausts. So bear that in mind if you are building something with side exit exhaust. I will avoid discussing my immense irritation with these sound restrictions at a RACETRACK.:banghead:

178541

And I can't forget the National Corvette Museum being just for us after our Drive-ability cruise. Super cool experience since I've never even been to KY. Learned a few things about some of the designers and engineers that I never knew along with the fun of seeing the new sinkhole exhibit too. And experiencing it all with a bunch of guys that are into cars too definitely helps. Coolest thing to see all these crazy trucks taking over the front of the museum too.

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Now I'm in the heart of West Virginia on my way to visit family in MD. After stopping to rest, I took the truck off the trailer and had to drive some of these twisty roads in the area. I'm not going stupid aggressive, but it's super fun to play around a little. I don't think anyone around here has seen something this wild since everywhere I go the truck draws a crowd. Even had some mustangs trying to race me on the highway....none have won currently. :headbang:

178542

[frink84]

NCM Motorsports Park has a 103db limit for sound and a ton of guys got popped for it all weekend. Somehow I didn't so that was a nice surprise because I had to be close. Seems like most of the issue was with the builds running big cams and side exit exhausts. So bear that in mind if you are building something with side exit exhaust. I will avoid discussing my immense irritation with these sound restrictions at a RACETRACK.:banghead:


Thank those NIMBY assholes who buy cheap property close to the racetrack then complain about the noise! Be happy its such a high limit, back when I lived in socal, the limit at the local autox was like 93db and most of the CAM class got popped at one time or another for sound.

[Sbeck09]

Thank those NIMBY assholes who buy cheap property close to the racetrack then complain about the noise! Be happy its such a high limit, back when I lived in socal, the limit at the local autox was like 93db and most of the CAM class got popped at one time or another for sound.

Apparently Laguna Sega is down to 90db now and every single person I know that has been there in the past year has been popped. Really sucks because I have always wanted to run that track, but I know I'm in for frustration if I go there. And that is just one example. Stuff like that is the biggest reason you guys never saw/heard of me testing in CA prior to Bowling Green. I want to focus on getting suspension data, not some short-sighted Karen fussing about her home being built within earshot of a track. That will kill these tracks in the long run because guys will give up going there to race on the weekend.

Fortunately it looks like the fall racing season in AZ is loading up so I'll have a number of events to be at starting within a month of returning home. As always, I'll share everything I can here so some of you can apply those lessons to your own builds.

[SSLance]

Bring your extra mufflers for any event at AMP, 96db max at 50' and they will test before you can run.

I don't think it makes any sense either as the facility is literally at the end of Luke Air Force base's runway...but its better than not having a place to race like on a lot of other places around the Country.

PS... Its a lot of fun smacking loud rowdy racecars with a quiet unassuming streetcar, ask me how I know.

[Sbeck09]

Bring your extra mufflers for any event at AMP, 96db max at 50' and they will test before you can run.

I don't think it makes any sense either as the facility is literally at the end of Luke Air Force base's runway...but its better than not having a place to race like on a lot of other places around the Country.

PS... Its a lot of fun smacking loud rowdy racecars with a quiet unassuming streetcar, ask me how I know.

I personally don't feel like these Borla mufflers are super loud, but at WOT they certainly bark. Guess it's time to buy a decimeter and start checking as part of my pre-race checklist. Good thing I kept the massive Hushpower mufflers I started off with. There is no way I would break a sound limit with those.

I definitely understand the appeal of having a mellow note from a quick car, but I've always loved vehicles that make some noise. Too bad more people don't appreciate that. I'm seriously starting to consider taking the weight penalty of building a secondary branch of my exhaust that is a bit quieter for situations like this. That way I'm covered if I go somewhere and blow sound. Flip a switch and carry on.

[454bug]

I have really enjoyed following your build! You've done a great job of tackling issues one at a time with perseverance! It looks like you were in the minority with a Ford at the event. At least the pictures had a lot more GM vehicles in it. It sounds like your truck has a lot of potential after some tweaking of the setup.

I see you went with DBW. In your CAI picture I still see the cable throttle body. What DBW throttle body did you switch to?

[Sbeck09]

I have really enjoyed following your build! You've done a great job of tackling issues one at a time with perseverance! It looks like you were in the minority with a Ford at the event. At least the pictures had a lot more GM vehicles in it. It sounds like your truck has a lot of potential after some tweaking of the setup.

I see you went with DBW. In your CAI picture I still see the cable throttle body. What DBW throttle body did you switch to?

Thanks! Definitely was the minority at the event. I believe I was one of only 3 fords out of about 50 trucks competing. And all the Ford guys knew exactly who I was. Haha.

I didn't event realize I hadn't shown the engine bay since the DBW stuff was installed. I am using the LS2 throttle body since it matches the largest OEM TB GM ever used on the LS family of engines. Nice budget option at only $100 ish brand new. The Holley EFI system already has the part number listed in the drop down as well making things easier. And for the record, I wish I had done DBW from the beginning. So much better.

[Sbeck09]

For those of you local in AZ running SCCA this weekend, see you there! Just got off the stupid waitlist that I should have never been on in the first place. Event recap to follow. We are doing 2 drivers this weekend so the truck will be properly abused again. I've not had a chance to make any real changes so this should be interesting.

[SSLance]

I thought you were in from the start?

[Sbeck09]

Well looks like I got a little distracted and a bit behind on my event recap.

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Overall the truck took 12 runs of abuse and didn't really complain until it was time to load on the trailer.

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Unfortunately I never got around to ordering springs until today so I wasn't able to test that change out. AMP is an interesting pad to run since it does have a decent amount of marbles and a few spots that unload the car which I didn't learn well enough early on. Definitely requires excellent throttle control. That being said, it reminds me of running at the Mineral Wells, TX airport with the BMW CCA and that was always a blast.

We had to deal with some unusual restrictions which included a mask on anytime you are out of your vehicle and limiting the attendance to 50 in the morning and 50 in the afternoon. While this allowed a rapid event with each driver getting 6 runs, it totally eliminates the social aspect of the event that I know myself and most others enjoy. But hey, we got to do some racing so that's the upside.

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I managed a best of 49.98, but my CAM-T class leader was a low 45. So I have a long way to go to get where I want to be. Luckily there is another event coming up on the 17th where I should have the new parts installed and we can see if that helps. Some people noted that I still seem a bit timid with this thing so I guess I'll have to push harder.

The first failure of a component yet was one of the hard lines (Hydraulic Fluid Transfer Line) fail on the power steering rack right after my final run causing it to puke all the fluid on the ground....yay.:hand: I figured it was just an o-ring that failed since this rack was bought brand new. Nope, the line seems to have cracked under the nut somehow and I found the only set left in the US until December. Let's hope it arrives on time. I believe there has always been air bubbles in the power steering system due to a design flaw with the CVF reservoir. I also ordered a Woodward swirl pot to cure that issue. I suspect the rapid fluctuations in pressure caused by the bubbles could have caused this line to wear itself thin enough to crack, but that's just a theory.

[SSLance]

Looks good in the pics! Can't wait to ride in it in a couple weeks.

[Sbeck09]

The inevitable finally happened. I had a part fail that made the truck undrivable.

180136

It's kinda hard to see, but there is a little black line right at the flare which is actually a hairline crack. Turns out this POURS power steering fluid when you have 1000 psi of pressure going through the rack...imagine that. I originally thought it was just the o-ring, but obviously that was wishful thinking.

So for over a week after the event I searched all over for those stupid hardlines that allows the rack to be powered. Turns out mine is a really strange size and I had zero luck. For the record these are called Hydraulic Fluid Transfer Lines. Not all manufacturers make replacements. So in a single act of desparation I got out my flare tool and used the wrong dies to make the right flare. TA DA!!! Whew...glad that's over.

180137

So what would cause this? I think my power steering fluid reservoir, that came with my serpentine kit, has always frothed the fluid resulting in air bubbles. The pump has always made that classic whining noise so I believe that stressed the flare at it's weakest point from the constant pressure fluctuations. Recently I've come to love Swirl Pots so I went looking and stumbled onto the fact that Woodward makes one themselves. Well I love my Woodward steering column so it was easy to trust their engineering again.

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The saddle mount was something I had to make. You can buy theirs very similar to this, but i would have needed to modify it anyway. Plus I still needs lots of AL welding practice. It's a SUPER nice piece and seems to be working flawlessly. Comes with the AN fittings installed so you just plumb it and filler er up. If you look close there is an inner and outer layer with a screen in between so the returning fluid has ample time to settle before being drawn back down into the pump. It's always far quieter than before and the steering feels much better too. Another win in the books.

Next up was to address my failed AeroCatch hood latch system. I know, I know, everyone else seems to love them. I just haven't had a good experience at all. Mine have constantly bound up needing a little wiggling at best before finally having the internal slider just break. Maybe the intense UV from the sun broke down the plastic extra fast? Who knows, but I needed something better so I could more easily use my hood. Especially when making shock changes since that's the easiest way to reach the front clickers. I decided that an all metal solution would suit me best here.

180140

Noticed this style of pin on some rally cars and knew I had to have it. Keeps the pin captured so you can't lose it, but makes it super easy to use and is made of aluminum with a stainless steel pin. The black plate underneath was how I covered the hole left by the AeroCatches and so far it seems to be exactly the solution I hoped it would. I can now open the hood in about 5 seconds taking my sweet time.

Final steps was to swap spring rates, do a valve check, weld on a real oil fill cap, and do an oil change. As of this maintenance the truck had exactly 500 miles on the odometer. Definitely wish that number was higher, but this year has been exceptionally busy for me and I do have multiple other toys to add miles on as well.

180141

Every single valve was dead on spec per my engine builder's instructions. Nothing looks like it's wearing funny and this really has been a quiet motor for being solid roller. VERY happy!

180142

Long overdue oil fill cap. Found these with the threaded bung and it's exactly what I was looking for. Now oil changes are less of a pain (been filling through the breather at the back of the valve cover).

For the spring rate changes, I went from 550 lb/in fronts to 800 and moved the 550's to the rear replacing my 475 lb/in springs. Overall the ride doesn't feel any harsher and hopefully this helps me dial out some of the mid corner push I've been getting.

For those of you going to AMP for SCCA Saturday, see you there!!!

[SSLance]

Looks good Sean, glad you got the fluid transfer line issue straightened out.

Better get that whip tuned up for this weekend!!

[Sbeck09]

Looks good Sean, glad you got the fluid transfer line issue straightened out.

Better get that whip tuned up for this weekend!!

Oh we are ready to rock!

Last night I had a delivery that I wish I had gotten long ago!

180153

I stumbled onto Redline Tuning who makes a gas strut kit for the hoods of these trucks. I've been using a prop rod which isn't terrible, but not optimal either. So for the whopping $100 this costs I rolled the dice while keeping my expectations low.

180154

35 minutes later I was rewarded with a perfect install. Seriously easy and works flawlessly! It even included 4 pages of full color instructions. I wish I had done this long ago, but most of these retrofit parts require excessive effort for minimal results 98% of the time. This actually did exactly as advertised and works great even with my 7lb lighter hood. While this offers no performance advantage, the ease of access for quick shock setting changes or fluid checks is going to be super nice.

That should about do it prior to SCCA. I'm excited to see if the combination of setup changes and me having more seat time shows up on the timer this weekend.

[Sbeck09]

https://www.facebook.com/sean.bubeck/videos/3487906831232944/

Realized I never posted this here for those of you not keeping up on social media. Give a click to see this thing in motion. This was day 2 of the Pro Touring Truck Shootout. I may have totally failed at stopping on this one (first run of 6) but the truck does sound great.

[Zachalanche]

Its something about that Windsor firing order that makes the best sound.

Fantastic work on that truck. I love it!

[Sbeck09]

Its something about that Windsor firing order that makes the best sound.

Fantastic work on that truck. I love it!

Definitely has a very distinct sound.

Thanks for the kind words! It has been really fun to actually enjoy it knowing how special of a truck it is underneath. Seeing the looks of guys faces when I pop the hood at the gas station (constantly get asked to see) is still the most fun. Nobody can believe what is hidden under the original body.

[Sbeck09]

The quick recap is that the spring rate change was excellent! The truck doesn't try and push through the turns so bad now and overall grip seemed higher. I realized I was underbraking as a result. So I still have some work to do on the driver. Something else of note, these Falken tires seem to prefer higher pressure than I've started with on other brands.

I would also like to point out that with normal driving these higher spring rates do not feel harsh. Granted the truck is rigid and there is no rubber bushings anywhere so road feedback is direct, but it is not uncomfortable to ride around town in at all.

I think I'll try running the heavier setting on the front sway bar at the next event and see what that does. Lance and I also believe that we can cut the rear camber in half from 2 degrees to 1 degree to try and add more straight line grip back. For now, I can continue to enjoy the truck around town since nothing is broken or needing repair. THAT is what I'm trying to do here. Race hard on the weekend and cruise the town any other time.

BONUS: Did some quick math on my last tank of fuel and discovered that with Andrew's tuning brilliance we are averaging right at 19mpg! Crazy to think this rowdy little SBF can hit efficiency numbers of some modern trucks while making much more power. And I don't baby this thing....ever.

[Sbeck09]

If you haven't seen it yet, Terry is local to me and filmed a segment on the truck. Many of you have seen his photos watermarked as @tlysak from various events. He also has a youtube and spent over 6hrs with me a week ago to film what became this. Essentially through these video clips, he provided a voice to all the words in this thread. I feel like he did a brilliant job bringing this thread to life, and I made sure all of you thanked as best I could. I LOVE THIS COMMUNITY!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQmJx2ohduk

[Sbeck09]

This past weekend was 2 days of SCCA Autocross with Saturday being a full day of Test N Tune.

Saturday was great because they setup an extended course allowing the most out of each of 10 total laps we got (I only got 9). This is the first time I've really been able to play with both tire pressure and shock settings individually lap to lap. I also moved about 15% more brake bias to the front which helped more than I ever expected. End result, the truck is significantly faster than it ever has been all by just learning what makes it stick the best. Unfortunately I finally had a real issue stop the day early. I run a Speedway Engineering splined swaybar. Somehow my passenger side arm slipped off (pinch bolt was still tight) and then the set screw on the locking collar came loose causing that to be lost somewhere out there. I never heard anything, but they told me something was hanging down when I came in and I felt a massive jump in body roll halfway around. **** happens.

With Sunday fast approaching and it being 4pm on a Saturday night I had to find a way to fix this before Sunday's race. Thinking cap on tight...

Best I could come up with quickly after a run by Lowes on the way home was 4x 1in dia steel washers and a 1/4-20 set screw.

181159

Here is the catch, I have a 1-1/4 dia sway bar. It was getting late and I was dead tired so I didn't remember to take photos of the process, but here is what the result was:

181160

I TIG welded the 4 washers together with both 5x rosette welds in the middle and all the way around the outside. I used a little vise on the big drill press to run a 1-1/4 hole saw through the middle. Then a quick clean up with the scuff pad on the die grinder before I tapped the setscrew in. Done. Installed and cranked down by 11pm with the truck still on the trailer.:headbang:

Sunday went smooth as could be. 2 drivers in the same session knocking out 8 runs. I ran a best of 53.6 seconds placing me 3rd out of 10 cars in CAM-T. Probably the wrong class, but they let me play here...for now. I dropped roughly 1 second every lap just keeping consistent tire pressures and never changing shock settings. I'm incredibly happy with how the truck is performing. I believe it is basically at the limit of these 300tw tires so I'm just gonna wear these out and then jump to a 200tw option to really pour on the pressure.

I've also worked a lot on my driving. Taking 9 years off from racing hasn't done my skills any favors. I really worked on pushing braking deeper, smoother throttle inputs, and left foot braking. You can blame the driver or anything you want, but these "driver mods" resulted in times faster than a Porsche Carrera, half of CAM, and many modern mustangs.

Trucks can handle and I'm gonna keep proving it! Thanks everyone for your support. All I need to do is check fluids, flush the brakes, and wipe it down before Good Guys this weekend. Hope to see some of you there in Scottsdale!

[SSLance]

Nice work this weekend Sean. Way to keep after it. Are you going to be able to sneak it in on Friday?

[RinerAuto]

Found your thread researching front suspension builds and ended up reading all 25 pages. The truck is awesome.

I think you hinted at other spindle options. I'm trying to find a spindle with an upper ball joint and accepts a hub with a ford bolt pattern. Without going to a full aluminum racing $3k+ spindle (griggs or cortex), I've only found the ridetech, mustang II, or factory five spindles. Did you find any other options?

[Sbeck09]

Nice work this weekend Sean. Way to keep after it. Are you going to be able to sneak it in on Friday?

Thanks Lance! It's a combo of making headway with truck setup and driver gaining back some long lost confidence. Still more to go so watch out.

No, I'm being held to running Sunday only since this front end didn't come to life until 1992. Plus I think some guys are low key watching me find speed and I'm considered a threat (HA!). Totally fine with me since this truck isn't at a level of contending for the shootout...yet. :evil:


Found your thread researching front suspension builds and ended up reading all 25 pages. The truck is awesome.

I think you hinted at other spindle options. I'm trying to find a spindle with an upper ball joint and accepts a hub with a ford bolt pattern. Without going to a full aluminum racing $3k+ spindle (griggs or cortex), I've only found the ridetech, mustang II, or factory five spindles. Did you find any other options?

THIS is exactly what I was hoping for! Glad you are able to get some info and thank you so much for taking time to read through!

As far as "budget friendly" options, you really just can't beat the Ridetech spindles. They have been awesome! Biggest hurdle is the steering arms if you are running front steer like I am, but I'm also proof that you can overcome that with some semi-intelligent fabrication. For what you mentioned, these are my only viable recommendation I can stand behind.

Ideally I'd love to run a Corvette type spindle and maintain the Ford bolt pattern, but you are looking at a minimum of $1,000+ for just the bare pair from the aftermarket. Then it rapidly goes up from there as you build them out to be useful. Part of me did start to consider using the Crow Vic front spindles since they are the right pattern, use an upper and lower ball joint, super strong, and big brake options exist. The Ridetech spindles just felt like a more "known" option to me.

At the end of the day I'm sure there is other options in the world. I only made a small amount of headway in finding a good all around option. I'm actually still convinced I could make the S197 spindle into a bolt-on double a-arm option, but those will continue to collect dust on the shelf for a while longer while my focus is on more pressing projects. It would be extremely similar to the Factory Five SN95 spindle adaptor they make. Hell that might even be an option for you. Good luck!

[Sbeck09]

https://www.facebook.com/sean.bubeck/videos/3811399465550344/

From All American Sunday this past weekend at Good Guys in Scottsdale.

Positives:
Truck ran like a champ
Competition was much better than expected
Event runs like clockwork (take some notes SCCA)
Everyone was so fun to be around

Negatives:
My gearing was soooo wrong for this course
For the size and weight of this truck, I was on smaller and less sticky tires than every vehicle who beat me
Didn't make the shootout or even top 10

Overall I will run every Good Guys Autocross that I can. It was so fun and it runs so well for being a "fun" event and atmosphere. I still have some things to work on as a driver, but investments will also need to be made if this truck is going to truly be competitive with the level of guys I'm coming up against. 2 seconds faster would have put me in the shootout with a chance.

For those of you who stopped by, thank you. The truck had a consistent crowd all day long and it was cool to be the only Ford truck running on Sunday.

[Sbeck09]

For those of you that don't follow along with my antics on other platforms, I had to share another of Terry's gems here. We all love his work and he came through with his magic yet again for me!

181362

I continue to be amazed at how flat the truck stays overall. We ain't even dialed in yet. This was a 90 degree right turn off of a short straight at Good Guys on Sunday.

[Sbeck09]

Well I'm a bit behind....oops. :rolleyes:

It's been an extremely busy close to the year. I hope you all had a nice holiday. Mine was too quiet due to not traveling to see my family like I would typically do. The bright side is I spent time on the truck.

After Goodguys in November the truck decided it didn't like alternators. After only 1000 miles the first one started only producing 11.7v peak. So I called and had a new one shipped to me under the warranty. Got it installed the 2 weeks before SCCA in December. Immediately it's showing 11.8v peak...****. So I tested it every way I could think of and inspected all my wiring before settling on it being defective. Took both dead units to Autozone where they ran them on their special test machine and matched my readings. Well good, at least we know I'm doing everything right on my end. This put me at a disadvantage not having a charging system for an event I was committed to. So I went for a hail mary the night before the event and found some random Duralast in stock about 20 min away. It only put out 105 amps, but if I didn't idle much and kept all non-essential items off it should make it. NOPE! Right away it was not keeping up so I checked the test slip in the box. Imagine my surprise when I see it only tested at a max of 72 amps. WHAT?! So I said screw it...let's run anyway. Autocross is a total of 3-5 minutes of run time and I can make it work. Wrong again. Setting up for my 3rd run and the truck just died. So we packed up and headed home.

Disappointing to say the least. The one bright side to this is that none of the work I've done has failed. I suspect there has been some kind of quality control failure with whoever manufactures these CS130 GM alternators along with the expected supply chain delays we all expect right now. I'm still waiting on the 3rd replacement under warranty and the vendor has been extremely good with communication while we both wait on that inventory to arrive. So I've focused on other areas.

Something that has bugged me to death is not having my aluminum door panels done. This is my own fault, but we won't focus on that. I gave a template to my friend with a massive laser machine about 3 weeks ago and he finally had a free moment to throw my little project on there.

183073

I'm working on some 3D printed covers for around the door handle and to trim around the window crank nicer. It already looks 100x better.

Next up, DOWNFORCE! :headbang:

183067

Only 1 wing goes on the truck. The other is for my BMW V8 track car build that I haven't shared since it's not very Pro Touring....I don't think.

183068

I placed my order with 9 Lives Racing and had to wait, but man was it worth it. These were less than half the cost of an equivalent carbon wing and still offer the same benefits.

I had no idea how long it would take me to hand make the aluminum mounts, but omg it was a TON of work. It probably doesn't help that I'm super picky about everything matching perfectly, but I got it done and am very happy with the results.

183069

I totally get that some of you will absolutely hate this look and many more of you still won't really "like" it. Remember that the goal is always about function first. The rear view there looks pretty dang cool to me though.

183070

The mounts are modular since some series (Optima) don't allow such a tall mount. With 4 nuts/bolts removed I can swap to different uprights in 5-10 min total. The lower section actually goes through the bed to mount directly to the truck's frame so I have zero concerns about this being strong enough. Side to side rigidity does leave a little to be desired, but the bed cover is going to really help there.

Yup, finally doing the bed cover. I'm making it lightweight and easily removed in sections. Stay tuned for that update in a couple days. A few of you might learn about a new material you'll want to try then.

Oh and as a teaser of what else...I'm keeping things "balanced"

183071

[Vimes]

I've bought a couple of alternators from Mechman (https://www.mechman.com/) for a couple of different trucks. Both are still running great (family trucks,) and they make far more power than either truck they were installed in will ever need. What I really like about them is they're capable of making more power at idle than the factory alternators are rated for at max RPM.

So far as the parts store alternators go, the "rebuilding" process seems to consist of dipping the alternator in engine cleaner and sticking it in a box. You stand a better chance of getting a good alternator from a salvage yard because salvage yard alternators are there because the car wore out or was wrecked, while the parts store alternator was there because the previous owner was having charging problems. I don't even bother with them anymore. The new parts store alternators are so expensive that you might as well spend a few extra bucks for a good US-built high amperage one. At least you know you're not going to run out of juice.

[SSLance]

Sean, I found a place downtown Phoenix that will build an Alternator to do whatever you want it to do pretty reasonably.

Copperstate Alternator & Starter
Auto electrical service in Phoenix, Arizona
Address: 3807 N 35th Ave, Phoenix, AZ 85017
Phone: (602) 253-4155

I bought a reman CS144 from them for like $90 because I needed it that day but considered having them build it up to 250 amp for $200 total.

[Sbeck09]

I appreciate the input on the alternators. This is STILL an ongoing saga and rapidly becoming a giant thorn in my side. The local company that claimed they could rapidly rebuild and upgrade one of my good housings has been a big hot mess to deal with...and that's me trying to be nice about it. CVF themselves have still been plagued by ongoing supply delays, but even now after a month of this they have been communicating wonderfully so it's hard to be upset at them. So yeah....still haven't driven my truck and I'm not a fan of it just taking up space when I LOVE driving it so much.

Ok so onto more positive things. With the wing mounted and ready for action the need to clean up rear airflow cannot be ignored any longer. Plus I've been wanting to try a new-to-me material. So a lightweight bed cover was moved to Priority #1. Guess the truck being down isn't the end of the world for upgrades.

I looked around at off the shelf options hoping for the lazy way out with a production bed cover. I'll give you all one guess how that went. If you can find them for these trucks they are horrendously heavy. Like minimum of 70lbs and easily approaching the 100lbs mark for the fiberglass versions. That's not even including how expensive those production covers can be. Of course that just won't do so I came up with my own plan.

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You can see there how I used 1/16" and 1/8" aluminum angle to create a simple frame to support the lightweight panels. This structure is removable in the future with 25 #8 bolts around the edges. Yes I can think of a specific reason, but that's another topic for another time later on.

The real magic is in the panel material itself. I was recently told about something called Omegabond which turns out is commonly known as ACP (Aluminum Composite Panel) in the sign business. It is two super thin sheets of Aluminum sandwiching a polythylene core. Best part is that it is roughly 1/3 the weight of the similar thickness aluminum sheet and costs about 20% less while being available raw or coated in various basic colors. I went with 3mm for this job, but they have 6mm too which I could see using as a splitter.

I found it to be super easy to work with just requiring a careful touch on corners to prevent damage. Once bolted in place I was happy with the strength and I feel this will hold up really well in this application.

183373

Over the course of a couple evenings after work I was able to slowly trim everything to fit just right so the cover sits flush with the bedsides and has minimal gaps around everything else. I also used this to add strength to the wing uprights by using the cover like a spar to the bed itself. This provided the added strength I was missing. Win-win. Oh and the total weight penalty for all this was a whopping 12lbs. End cost was approximately $220. No special tools required.

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You can see how it came together underneath in that photo. But enough teasing...once you peel the protective cover back you are rewarded with beauty.

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That's the coating as it comes. Which seems perfect to me. You can also see the fuel filler finally doesn't look out of place. That trap door just behind the cab uses a tool-free dzus fastener to access the battery and fuel pump area of the fuel cell. The tail gate still drops down and can be used as normal. Overall this feels like it gave the rear half of the truck a much more completed look while being extremely functional.

More to come soon, but man I just really wanna drive this again more than anything.:drive1:

[Big_KID]

Love the concept and execution! I had though of creating one in the same manor with aluminum sheet or some other rigid lightweight composite all for the exact same reasons you mentioned.
Couple questions...
Are the cross braces attached to the side rails? If so, how did you join them to keep the framing on the same plain?
Did you use a bonding adhesive to bond the panels to the frame or just rivets?
What did you use to cut/trim the Omegabond?

[eviltwin_1987]

That looks great

[Sbeck09]

Love the concept and execution! I had though of creating one in the same manor with aluminum sheet or some other rigid lightweight composite all for the exact same reasons you mentioned.
Couple questions...
Are the cross braces attached to the side rails? If so, how did you join them to keep the framing on the same plain?
Did you use a bonding adhesive to bond the panels to the frame or just rivets?
What did you use to cut/trim the Omegabond?

Thanks! Little time and patience paid off better than I originally hoped.

The two center bows are attached to the sides with the same Stainless #8 bolts I used for everything on this project. All 4 bows would be the same if I was working on a normal truck bed, but I have the rear roll bars and wing uprights to attach things to. Keeping the bows on the same plane was a matter of clamping a straight edge along the top of the "frame" pieces and drilling the bolt holes in place. I used a die grinder and my small metal bandsaw to notch the aluminum angle so it fit nicely together (hard to explain this way so I'll try to remember to grab some pics), but we all know aluminum is easy to cut so use what you've got.

I didn't use any rivets with the idea being that small bolts are stronger and allow panel replacements (think idiot throwing something heavy on top or something falling). My simple recommendation is to use the double-sided 3m tape to hold the panels to the aluminum frame. I had already started drilling holes before that idea came up from Rob at No Limit. Hindsight is 20/20. You could also use an adhesive if you wanted. I don't think there is truly a wrong way to do this, but just remember that there is some air pressure and turbulence in this area so you want to use quality stuff regardless.

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For cutting straight lines I like using this 7" metal saw, but a jigsaw works just as well. For the detail stuff I used sanding drums of various sizes on my die grinder. There really isn't a wrong way to cut this stuff. I finished all my edges with a metal file to keep things neat and clean. The only real concern when cutting this material is to not have too aggressive of a blade and ripping the edges up, not that this was an issue for me at all. ACP is overall softer than a full metal panel. I worked mine just like I would a sheet of plastic and had no issues.