Chicane bracket,spc lca,and ridetech coilovers...help.

[chevelletiger]

As stated above,these parts are for my 72 chevelle.
Well heres my issue.
NOTED: GM SHORT SPINDLE WITH HOWE TALL .9 UPPER B.J.
.5 TALLER UPPER BJ.

I mocked up the lca,which has a 1.00 drop built into the spring pocket,but you need to use a 1/4 plate in the pocket to disperse the load of the Coil over tee bar mount which measures 5/8 od divided in half is 5/16.

I set my car at my desired ride height,pictures posted below.

Then measured to see what stroke I need.
The shock I might be choosing are a 4.1 stroke shock which calls out for the ride height to be 12.5, well I measured and it comes out to 12.750,that's from the center line of the chicane upper bracket,to the center of the lower 5/8 tee bar mount.


Now here's my problem
speedtech said the chicane with there lower a arms with the stock spring bucket placement,uses a 5.3 stock stroke????what's going on here??
I see no way of using that stroke shock,especially when these arms have a 1.00 drop,and I'm only getting 12.750 ride height.

And if you can see by the pic also the control arms has a lot of angle,is this normal?
Car is level,as is the tire to the ground.
The bump stop is 1.00 away from touching the frame.
I'm running sc&c stage2 plus kit,tall .9 upper ball joint,.5 lower ball joint,and upper adjustable arms.

Will the 4.1 ridetech shock with the 12.5 ride height be fine?
If I knew the chicane was so much trouble to install I would have went with the stud mounted ridetechs.

[chevelletiger]

Pics

[chevelletiger]

More pics.
Arms are not flat with the ground at this ride height,if they are
This thing sits like a 4x4.

[79T/Aman]

what size is that tire? focusing on the relationship of the wheel well to the top of the tire is usually the fastest way to run into trouble.
How are you determining the lower A-arm being flat or not? because flat would mean the inner pivot point (bushing) is at the same height as the outer pivot (ball joint pivot)
Typically if a control arm has 1" drop built in that means the spring bucket is only 1/2" lower than in the stock control arm (1" is at the wheel) so as you take measurements at the spring you are already 1/2" off .
" speedtech said the chicane with their lower a arms with the stock spring bucket placement " from this statement it sounds like Speedtech knows what is needed to work with the SPC lower control arms, I would say that you do not need the re-enforcement plate with the SPC lower arms, those are for stock GM arms, it also looks like your tape measure is on top of the washer so add up the re-enforcement plate, the washer and you have close to 1/2".
The difference between a 4.1 stoke shock and a 5.3 is 1.2" divided by 2 = .6 at static ride height, close enough to 1/2" , add up manufacturing tolerances and not trying to run so low with a short tire and you should be good.

BTW does it look like your lower ball joint is not seated all the way...check that !

[killer69]

What he said ^^^^^^^
and i also noticed the ball joint

[chevelletiger]

Tire is a 275 35 18,ball joint is seated guys.

[79T/Aman]

that tire is about 25 1/2" tall the car was designed to use a 27 3/8" tall tire with 3" of gap between the tire and fender, the way you want to run it the frame has to be 4"+ lower than stock, can't expect to do that with a few bolt on parts and I bet any other A-body you see running that low have dropped spindles.

[chevelletiger]

Ok.
The ball joint are tall so that drops it too.
I think 3/4,I'll look into drop spindles I suppose.
So when I set this up how much higher does my car need to be?
I know the red chevelle that has the speedtech parts is using Ats tall spindles but I know those spindle are not a 2 inch drop.
So from if I raise my ride height up,and eliminate the 1/4 reinforcement plate I should be able to run a 5.2 stroke shock,correct?

[79T/Aman]

don't focus on the amount of drop and don't use other cars as reference, or who, how did what, other cars can be used as ideas but if you are going to piece together something ya gonna need to put on your thinking cap and yes it involves math ;-)

[chevelletiger]

" I would say that you do not need the re-enforcement plate with the SPC lower arms, those are for stock GM arms"
I would have to disagree,the instructions state the plate needs to be used with the coilovers.

[csouth]

Bear in mind my car hasn't been aligned yet, but my angle is similar. I have the new SPC lowers, SPC uppers and ATS tall spindles. My ridetech coilovers were purchased before I had the SPC lowers so they were for a lower with a stock pocket depth.

154500

[79T/Aman]

" I would say that you do not need the re-enforcement plate with the SPC lower arms, those are for stock GM arms"
I would have to disagree,the instructions state the plate needs to be used with the coilovers.

are the instructions that say you need the plate for the coil overs or for the SPC arms? IMHO if SPC made the lower A-arms too thin to be able to use either a std. coil or a coil over they really screwed up their design.
The 1" lower feature of the SPC lower arm would only apply only to a conventional coil spring not a coil over.

[chevelletiger]

Spc instructions for
Part# is 94344 below.
It can be seen better online.

The plate is 3/16 thick,so not sure that they screwed up.
I measured again without the 1/4 plate and to the center of the 5/8 tee bar,to the center hole of the chicane bracket is 13.375@ the ride height I set it to,which I raised maybe a 1/2 More then the picture I posted.
What you said about not setting up the tire in relation to the fender opening,is opposite of what ridetech tech line told me?

I would like to note i received an email from mark@sc&c.
I sent him pictures and he said the arms looked right on the center line of the bushing pick up point and the center of the lower ball joint.

[chevelletiger]

Chris,Not that im going to use your stroke shock or spring length,but could you share that?
Also did you use the lower coilover over plate?
Would be interesting to know.

I would like some help,constructive help

I don't set up suspension for a living,some
Constructive help instead of a more negative then positive posts.

Have you cycled the suspension with those coilovers yet chris?
I'm just curious.

[csouth]

Chris,Not that im going to use your stroke shock or spring length,but could you share that?
Also did you use the lower cook over plate?
Would be interesting to know.

I would like some help,constructive help

I don't set up suspension for a living,some
Constructive help instead of a more negative then positive posts.

Have you cycled the suspension with those coilovers yet chris?
I'm just curious.

I'm not sure what their stock stroke and spring length is, but I'm sure we could get that from Ridetech. These would be their stock coilover for an A body without their Strong Arms. I am using the SPC coilover plate and I have cycled the suspension. I have driven the car around the block a few times and actually had to raise the car a little because its settling.

[chevelletiger]

Thanks chris,I forgot too that your using a stock upper mount,not the chicane.

I'll probably talk to mark again to see what ridetech shocks I need,since he's the expert on the abodies running this set up.
Did you raise the height by the coil over collar,or you added another plate?

[csouth]

Thanks chris,I forgot too that your using a stock upper mount,not the chicane.

I'll probably talk to mark again to see what ridetech shocks I need,since he's the expert on the abodies running this set up.
Did you raise the height by the coil over collar,or you added another plate?

I do have a second set of plates installed and I raised the coilover.

[marolf101x]

We (Ridetech) do not make a coil over specific for the OE lower control arm. It is our feeling that the stroke which is provided by a monotube shock absorber in an OE fitment is too short and will result in poor ride quality as the car will bottom out more easily, or you'll run a very heavy spring rate to mitigate bottoming. Not to mention the OE control arm will fail as it's not thick enough. Remember, that is looking at the OE control arm only. . .I have no input on the aftermarket parts used here as I've not installed them myself.

This is actually pretty simple. . .
-loosely bolt everything together (do not install the spring on the coil over as you want to be able to cycle the suspension up and down through it's full travel range)
-using a jack in the middle of front cross member raise the vehicle until the lower control arm is flat (this means the inner pivot point at the frame and the center of the ball joint are in a straight line and are parallel with the floor. If you need a picture I can make/find one) This is ride height. The lower control arms are at the "end of the arc" so to speak. If the suspension compresses they climb the arc up, if the suspension extends they follow the arc down.
-General rule is that at the intended ride height NOTHING hangs lower than 4" from the ground. If it does, move it. If it's major (like a frame cross member) you'll need to raise the vehicle.

-Measure the distance between the center of the lower coil over mount to the center of the upper coil over mount (you stated you measured 12.75")
-go here, choose the shock(s) close to this ride height dimension: https://www.ridetech.com/applications/streetrods/coilover-shock-single-adjustable/
-You'll see the 4.1" eye/eye stroke shock has a ride height of 12.5", extended of 14.23" and compressed of 10.13" (the 5.2" stroke has a ride height of 14.5", and is too long for this application) (Do not get hung up on stroke. . .the motion ratio of that vehicle is roughly 2:1, so theoretically the 4.1" stroke will provide 8.2" of wheel travel)
-General rule of thumb is to have 5 inches minimum wheel travel. 60% of that travel should be for compression, 40% for extension. So if you use the 4.1" stroke shock, you'll have 1.48" shock shaft showing (14.23-12.75=1.48). Motion ratio around 2:1, you have a theoretical compression travel of 2.96" at the shock (5.92" at the wheel) and rebound travel of 1.14" at the shock (2.28" at the wheel).
-Now, I keep saying theoretical as you still have bump stops and ball joints to worry about

-so once you have the shock in there without a spring, move the suspension through it's travel noting what hits (might be the tire in the fender or inner fender well, might be the bumpstop, might be the coil over fully extended or bottoming out) You want to make sure bump stops or coil over stops travel before the ball joints reach bind. If the ball joints bind first they will fail and the wheel will come off the car!

[chevelletiger]

Britt,I did raise my ride height a little from the photos I posted,I have the ride height at 13.375 now.
I will do as you stated above today and cycle everything for sure.
I just got off the phone with josh,and gave him my number.
He said I should be good but will test everything before finalizing everything
The gentlemen at ridetech have been a big help thank you for helping me learn how to set up for my application.

[79T/Aman]

Chris,Not that im going to use your stroke shock or spring length,but could you share that?
Also did you use the lower cook over plate?
Would be interesting to know.

I would like some help,constructive help

I don't set up suspension for a living,some
Constructive help instead of a more negative then positive posts.

Have you cycled the suspension with those coilovers yet chris?
I'm just curious.

what negative post are you seeing?,

[chevelletiger]

I never said there was negative post it just always seems that when someone needs help somebody always has to have something negative and not positive post on the original posters problem.
That's all

[79T/Aman]

Your quote "Constructive help instead of a more negative then positive posts."
This entire thread has been positive including pointing out the danger of that lower ball joint not being fully seated, helping you focus on the right area and what matters VS what does not is how you learn.
BTW I don't know if it's on my side but could not open or enlarge that SPC attachment and tried it on 2 computers, I wanted to see more about those plates because they take up valuable C/O travel

[chevelletiger]

Dude,take it easy,your making like I directed it to you.

And about the ball joint,look at the picture I posted IT'S SEATED.

I made that clear for anybody reading the thread that thought it was not.
It's a Howe ball joint,the machined lip in the picture,at that angle made it look that way.
Josh from ridetech thought the same thing till he scrolled down and saw the close up picture.

About the instruction,it doesn't show clear on my phone either.
It can be looked up on the website with the part number 94344

Actually,I'm very grateful I'm getting the information.

I posted that because some people will post and not contribute to solving any of the problem,IT WAS NOT DIRECTED TO YOU.

[chevelletiger]

that tire is about 25 1/2" tall the car was designed to use a 27 3/8" tall tire with 3" of gap between the tire and fender, the way you want to run it the frame has to be 4"+ lower than stock, can't expect to do that with a few bolt on parts and I bet any other A-body you see running that low have dropped spindles.

Yes,drop spindles do need to be used with this set up if wanting to have a lower stance as I want, unfortunately speedtech does not say that in there instruction.
They should.
I know they use a 1.00 drop AFX spindle I just found out thru a fellow member,so I probably will have to go to a 2.00 drop spindle to get this low of a stance.

[rickpaw]

are the instructions that say you need the plate for the coil overs or for the SPC arms? IMHO if SPC made the lower A-arms too thin to be able to use either a std. coil or a coil over they really screwed up their design.
The 1" lower feature of the SPC lower arm would only apply only to a conventional coil spring not a coil over.

I have the SPC lower arms on my 67 Firebird. The arms are designed to use with OEM style coil/spring set up. As you're aware, the spring spreads the weight of the front end over the area at the end of the spring, thus distribute the load. In a coil-over with the T-bar mount set up, the weight of the front end is focused on the T-mount, so that area of the arms needs to be reinforced.

[chevelletiger]

BTW I don't know if it's on my side but could not open or enlarge that SPC attachment and tried it on 2 computers, I wanted to see more about those plates because they take up valuable C/O travel[/QUOTE]
79T/A MAN,I Removed the .250 plate today and got a ride height measurement of 13.5,bj and bushing pivot almost inline.
As a note also the washer in the picture is .312 thick,half the diameter of the tee bar.
I have my tape set on it to get a accurate,and easy measurement of the 5/8 tee bar centerline.

Here are some pics of it now,and how close the bump stops are and were the a arm tube would hit the frame

I might just make a new upper bracket for my application,with a 3.00 raised mount instead of the 2.00 that the speedtech chicane has.
My friend that teaches a class at a local high school has a cnc plasma cutter,I can reverse engineer these to work for me TALLER and a bit wider on the base of it pretty much start from scratch and s#$t can the speedtech chicane,or i was thinking I could fabricate a tube that welds to the flat part of the frame,and raises the chicane up some.
Would really like to run the 5.2 shock.

Second picture of the wheel is WITH the plate.

I did want to ask you what thickness do you use on your arms you make.,I called some of the vendors and they didn't want to say.

Thanks for your help,it's been great.

[raustinss]

So I'm confused... are you not happy with the ride height or was it a question of what coilover to use

[chevelletiger]

So I'm confused... are you not happy with the ride height or was it a question of what coilover to use

Ryan,actually,there's more into setting this up Then the look of the ride height,it's more getting the sweet spot of the shocks recommend ride height,lca pivot location,etc. for MY APPLICATION.
Are you interested in a slightly used chicane bracket?!! Lol.

[raustinss]

No I want brand new chicane brackets lol or global west version ???? Was just wondering if it was a ride height issue why not get AFX spindles . Also you can get shorter bump stops

[chevelletiger]

Cost is one factor,the other is I have these part s
and I'm getting tired of buying new parts then selling them off for something else,shorter bump stops won't help,that would not be good.
I really just need to either raise the upper mount or lower the lca pocket,which I don't won't to do on brand new arms.

Here's a pic of the brackets not really used up,someone will get a good deal.
Waste of $235.00 TO ME,there nice brackets,but won't work for me.

The picture shows the mock up of 13.5 ride height,the upper hole is the recommended 14.5,for a 5.2 stroke shock,
I see it as if 8m not using a longer shock,doing the raised upper mount was in vain.
I'll get it I just need to take my time and think it out as one member posted this is not a bolt on deal,there's more to it the just cutting out the upper spring pocket and welding that bracket in.
On another not I've spoke with Tony at ABC Performance and he's helped me understand some of this too.
I feel I'm on the right track,I'll keep everybody posted on the outcome.

[raustinss]

Tony is crazy smart ....knows his stuff , super cool and if you drive to his house to pick up parts . He might just take you out in that wicked chevelle of his

[marolf101x]

5.2” stroke shock provides the same wheel travel as a 2.9” stroke shock. You can put a 10” stroke shock in there and the wheel will still only move roughly 5”.

Are you ok with the ride height in the first pic? (should be with 13.5 center-to-center dim)
If so use a 4.1 stroke shock and a +1” upper eylet.

I’m looking at it on a phone, but the bumpstop looks about right. If there’s 1.5” between it and the frame that provides roughly 3” of compression travel at the wheel.

[chevelletiger]

Britt,that 4.1 shock with the +1" upper eyelet what are the spec?
Comp,ride height,ext. And the min ride height and ext.

Thank you.

[chevelletiger]

5.2” stroke shock provides the same wheel travel as a 2.9” stroke shock. You can put a 10” stroke shock in there and the wheel will still only move roughly 5”.

Are you ok with the ride height in the first pic? (should be with 13.5 center-to-center dim)
If so use a 4.1 stroke shock and a +1” upper eylet.

I’m looking at it on a phone, but the bumpstop looks about right. If there’s 1.5” between it and the frame that provides roughly 3” of compression travel at the wheel.

Yes Britt I'm happy with the ride height in the first picture.

Thank you,and Josh for all your help.
Phil

[Nick.V70]

SUB'd :)

[chevelletiger]

SUB'd :)

To be continued:
We got evacuated this week from our home,the wildfires in South corona are very bad.
Hope I have a home and chevelle when I get back.
Or looters,don't take my tools or new ridetech shocks.
Take care guys!

[chevelletiger]

Update,fires didn't damage any homes in my neighborhood.

Now,Back to the chevelle!
I got the 4.1 stroke shocks with the + 1.00 upper eyelet as britt,and Josh suggested.

Installed height at ride height was in the 13.5 to 13.750 range,so it's all pretty good.

I welded up the brackets and made a plate with a slot that welds to the hole cut into the frame,yes I have room in there for the spring and shock everything clears.

I had some used hyperco 550lbs springs I got off fleebay.
The one on the passenger side seems to have the correct rate,the driver side seems softer,I will get some 650lbs on it soon.
The driver side looks lower then the passenger side,the shocks were both set at the same length,so I need to find out why it's happening,I raised the driver side collar a little and it didn't change much.
Here's some pictures.

[chevelletiger]

Up close.
Sorry for the sideways pics.
Don't know why there like that?

[Josh@Ridetech]

Looks good Phil!

[raustinss]

Just a small tip , when measuring the height of the car use a spot on the frame as the reference point for the measurement, too many people will use the wheel well opening which can vary a lot more vs a point on the frame. Cheers glad it all worked out in the end

[chevelletiger]

Just a small tip , when measuring the height of the car use a spot on the frame as the reference point for the measurement, too many people will use the wheel well opening which can vary a lot more vs a point on the frame. Cheers glad it all worked out in the end
Thanks.
Yeah I think the driver side spring rate is not the same as the passenger side,it has the 550 stamped on it put when I push on the driver fender side it's a lot more bouncy that the passenger side.
The shock are adjusted at the same number.

[chevelletiger]

Looks good Phil!

Thanks Josh!
Question,I'm looking at getting some 650# spring,but they are 8.00 long spring,will these work with my 4.1+ 1.00 eyelet coilovers?
Thank you josh!

[Rod]

project is looking good, keep plugging at it, getting it right is hard work,

I'm glad your posting all this so others see,

just because it bolts together doesn't mean it works together

:cheers:

[chevelletiger]

Thanks!

Yes,things like this Can be worked out thou,
With the help of vendors,members and time to think things thru.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Thanks Josh!
Question,I'm looking at getting some 650# spring,but they are 8.00 long spring,will these work with my 4.1+ 1.00 eyelet coilovers?
Thank you josh!

The 4.1" shocks really work the best with a 10" spring.

If you were to use an 8" spring, it would either need a spacer or have to be really stiff for your car, so you don't run out of thread adjustment.

[chevelletiger]

Josh,the spacer would go on top of the spring right?
I got these for $40 for the pair,and there pretty new.
I really just got them because I think one of the 10 inch 550lbs springs I got from an eBay seller seems to be softer then the other one even thou they are the same rate and length.
I can always sell these after I install then to make sure that not the problem.
Shocks were set at same length,so I don't know why one side looks higher,the passenger side compared to the driver side which looks lower.

I hope thats all it is.
Thanks Josh.
Phil

[Steve Chryssos]

For the purpose of helping other who might find this thread down the line, it might be helpful to recap: (Correct me if I'm wrong) The OP was concerned about getting his geometry right at ride height(lower control arms level) With that done, the concern moved to ordering coilovers with the perfect length for his combination of parts. The solution for anyone else in this situation is: Don't sweat it! RideTech can help you FINE TUNE your coilovers dimensions by changing mounting ends, spring cups and spring length/rate. We have a detailed article here: https://www.ridetech.com/info/customizing-coilovers-with-the-right-combination-of-parts/

It's a common question, since no two hot rods are exactly the same. ..and it's a bigger issue with mixed parts. Just make sure you are buying coilovers, like RideTech, that CAN be tailored. Kudos to Phil (the OP) for wanting to get it right. A lot of people just settle for coilovers that bottom out.. top out.. crash...bang, etc. Don't settle.
Steve

[Josh@Ridetech]

Josh,the spacer would go on top of the spring right?
I got these for $40 for the pair,and there pretty new.
I really just got them because I think one of the 10 inch 550lbs springs I got from an eBay seller seems to be softer then the other one even thou they are the same rate and length.
I can always sell these after I install then to make sure that not the problem.
Shocks were set at same length,so I don't know why one side looks higher,the passenger side compared to the driver side which looks lower.

I hope thats all it is.
Thanks Josh.
Phil

Hey Phil,

Something like our drop cap (replaces the upper spring retainer) would be the easiest thing. This will push the spring farther down on the threads so you'll get to keep the adjustment- https://www.ridetech.com/products/coil-overs/universal-coil-overs/dropped-spring-retainer-cup/

[chevelletiger]

Thanks josh,that works!

[chevelletiger]

Updates on the coilovers.
10" springs 550lbs.
I think I need to add another spacer under the coil over.

Now this question is for the ridetech fellas.
The car,how it sits
I got a rough measurement of 12.5 from the center of the t bar to the center of the upper chicane bracket.
I'm I good?
Coil spring nut is just snug tight onto spring both side

[Steve Chryssos]

Is the rest of the car done? (meaning full weight?) It might be wise to leave it alone for now and finalize springs after you get the car on the ground. I realize that your wheel stands emulate a level surface, but there is nothing quite like seeing the car on the ground and tweaking from there. As for coil spring collar adjustment, close to zero-preload is the way to go. Plus a turn or two is fine. There is no law against cranking your springs up a bunch, but it's better to swap out springs in an effort to achieve low preload.
Steve

[chevelletiger]

Is the rest of the car done? (meaning full weight?) It might be wise to leave it alone for now and finalize springs after you get the car on the ground. I realize that your wheel stands emulate a level surface, but there is nothing quite like seeing the car on the ground and tweaking from there. As for coil spring collar adjustment, close to zero-preload is the way to go. Plus a turn or two is fine. There is no law against cranking your springs up a bunch, but it's better to swap out springs in an effort to achieve low preload.
Steve

Yes Steve car is all pretty much complete,I do still have iron head,that will be switched for aluminum ones.
Phil

[chevelletiger]

Found out why the passenger side was higher than the driver side.

One of the 6 jack stands I have was under the header!
Doh!

Now the driver side is only about 1/2 lower,I know I need to adjust this.
I still think the springs are too soft.
Going to get some 750lbs.

[the450r]

Going to get some 750lbs.
What springs did you end up going with? Do you recall what dimensions of the ridetech coil over?

I have SPC control arms 550lb springs and I want to do either the speedtech chicane mount or the umi upper mount with ridetech coil overs.

[chevelletiger]

Sorry for the delayed response.
Personally I like the chicane setup better,the umi one uses a 7 inch stroke shock,kinda overkill.
I have specs on the shocks but you should measure for your car,there all a little different like women!

- - - Updated - - -

Still have the 550lbs haven't worked on the car in awhile.
Doing body work on a friends 41 chevy coupe and my 70 c10 swb