protouring and your community

[Mark Antrim]

With protouring being in existence for over a decade if not two, how has the influence changed your local car shows, cars&coffee and/or local track events? Post your location with your thoughts about how strong or weak the protouring community is where you live.

Northwest Indiana is weak in that at car shows you'll see cars with the 18" rims but still stock brakes and maybe a 1-2"drop. Rat rods are still a very popular build and most people put their nose to the air if you don't know what your quarter mile time is. There is an scca club in the region and has an event 1 weekend a month during the non snow months. Small amount of muscle cars ,more imports at the scca events. If you want to see more protouing cars and their owners, you have to drive an hour into Chicago or to a protouring event.

[cornfedbill]

I live less than a mile from Lingenfelter's Brighton, MI facility. I see a big mix of cars - Pro-Street, Rat Rods, Resto rods, Muscle cars, and the whole mix. I don't see as many Pro-Touring cars at shows, but see them around. I think the Pro-Touring group spend less time showing and more time driving.

In fact, just a couple days ago I say a beautiful '69 Camaro Pro-Touring car driving on the gravel road near my house in the country.

I have observed the true Pr-Touring cars that are set up with full suspension modifications and big brakes are rare. Pro-Touring "look" cars are more common. I don't believe that most auto enthusiasts are willing to spend the money for hardware that cannot be seen and can only be fully utilized on a track.

[Schwartz Performance]

I think about this often.. when people talk about "cookie cutter pro touring builds" online.

We go to a decent amount of local shows, we're NW of chicago about an hour and a half.

Rarely do I see pro-touring cars. There are occasionally a few.. like Rich Gregory and his red '69 Camaro. But even his car is way higher end than most I see around here.

LS swaps are not even that common. Maybe LS1's and LS2's but rarely will I see an LS3, and have maybe seen one new LT1.

Despite the vast amount of pro-touring cars on the internet & social media, they still make up a small percentage of the muscle car population in my opinion... At least around here!!!

-Dale

[ragz]

This is why Pro-touring is such a great style, It works, great on highway, great on track ,great on street ,sorta great on fuel and..... hard to find them sitting still, far more fun to be driving than sitting at a car show , just my opinion.

[Mark Antrim]

Ragz, I can't agree more. I am not for being the norm, I think outside of the box. Dale, I'll be up to your open house in September with my camaro. I agree with cornfedbill, I've went to car shows and didn't stay because I just like to drive my car.

[BonzoHansen]

A full tilt PT car isn't cheap at least to your average cruise night guy. Big cruise nights I'll see 1 or 2. I see more LS cars than good PT cars. I did see a red 2nd gen vette with a blown ls, aftermarket frame and forgelines at a cruise night in Jackson NJ a week or so ago. I never found the owner.

[minendrews68]

I live in Arkansas... Do I need to say more? lol

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I'd say the pro touring "look" is fairly common, 17-18" wheels. Outside from that, only a handfull check the box as a "pro touring" style build for me. Modern engine, upgrade brakes, OD trans, upgraded suspension/wheels, etc.

[icemanrd19]

Mixed in dallas. Just like the above post there are more pro touring " looking" cars unlike cars like mine. I see them a decent amount because most of them are my friends lol. To the other comment above yea we dont usually go to car shows and register. most of the time we are out driving, go to a show, walk around and leave. Cars do very well at the car shows that we have been.

[Tincup]

Here in New England I like to call them "Pro Touring Lite", like everyone else, mostly just cosmetic upgrades with some mild suspension and brake work. There are a few more serious ones ( almost exclusively Chevy ) probably primarily due to parts availability and cost. I love the look, and enjoy seeing them wherever I can. But, around here Cragars are still king......:banghead:

[USAZR1]

Here in New England I like to call them "Pro Touring Lite", like everyone else, mostly just cosmetic upgrades with some mild suspension and brake work. There are a few more serious ones ( almost exclusively Chevy ) probably primarily due to parts availability and cost. I love the look, and enjoy seeing them wherever I can. But, around here Cragars are still king......:banghead:

Pretty much the same situation where I live, Mike. Only time I see a number of P/T cars together, is at the Texas Goodguys events held twice a year, at Texas Motor Speedway.

[btmatt]

We visited COTA for Cars and Coffee Saturday. Really cool show; huge variety of cars but very few P/T. I got tickled every time we walked by the "junky" Camaro (4th from left) and seeing the crowd trying to figure out just what was going on.154562

[Ishmael]

I don't want to drive four or five hours to an event. If I lived near a city I would go but I don't. That said I'm bored by local car shows. The biggest show in Canada is just over an hour from me and I'm bored of it. There are a few restomods (mine is mild suspensions, brakes, ls2) and protouring cars there but the guys driving them are out walking around. In my area when people find out its LS swapped they call it a Camaro because a real Firebird would have a Pawn-ti-ac in it. But I get the feeling there are more cars around, I'm just not seeing them. I live an hour away from any city. So maybe the solution is that we form local clubs and get together for drives rather than shows.

[WallaceMFG]

When I lived in Phoenix, there was a good car presence, but not very many pro touring builds. I could go to a show known as the Pavillions in Scottsdale every weekend and see maybe 3-4 on a busy weekend. Now that I've moved to Yuma, the pro touring cars are non existent, been replaced by low riders & donks. I'm trying to figure out how to get an SCCA presence set up here, I miss Auto X events but can't drive 4+ hours every time I want to race.

"Pro Touring" is the hot term right now like restomod was 5-10 years ago. It's almost hilarious to walk around the big car auctions like Barrett Jackson anymore. Everybody that can throw a set of 18-20" wheels and paint the brake calipers red calls it a pro touring car. The term is over used by people who don't know what it means, and only people like us are able to spot the true pro touring cars.

I love going to car shows, but get tired of dealing with angry old people. The older crowd tend to look at cars like those and the first words out of their mouths usually are "you ruined it" or something like that. Could be the reason pro touring builds are not at car shows, don't want to deal with all the old people that look down their nose at your car because it doesn't have Cragar wheels and the stinkbug rake.

[mike@sim-seats]

I think the biggest change to the community is that the cars we love are all around 50 years old now. No one gives mention to the fact that these "cool old cars" were "cool old cars" in the 1980s.

[TheJDMan]

I'm located about half way between D.C. and Richmond, VA. and I have not seen a single true Pro Touring car in my area. I typically do not do car shows or cruise nights but I got talked into going to a cruise night a couple of years ago and Dust Off drew a lot of attention. But as is typical on a cruise night there were far too many stupid people making stupid statements. Did I mention that I typically do not do car shows and cruise nights? These days I go out for an occasional drive but mostly do Auto-X and track days at VIR, DR, and Summit Point.

[Mark Antrim]

I like Ishmael's idea on a local get together and then a cruise. Our cars were built to be driven not just shown. There are so few pro touring autocross events around me. I would like to see more builds like mine in person than on a computer screen. I also like to meet more of like minded people face to face. If your in the chicagoland, northwest Indiana. Or southwestern Michigan area let me know maybe we can start something up.

[PT Sportwagon]

here in Laramie, WY even being the home to WyoTech we have 2 maybe 3 shows a year. Nothing Pro-touring even running around. I know there are loads of nice cars but you never see them. I was on a delivery for work one day. I seen a gorgeous 70-71 plum crazy Challenger 440-6 car. They guy had pulled it out of his storage. Never seen it on the road. Many cars I see at big shows like GG say Laramie as home town. only ever see them there. There are a couple pro-touring cars in Cheyenne.

Tim

[ragz]

Just got home from a 2800 mile trip to Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and Washington USA, and British Columbia, Alberta , Saskatchewan Canada in my Protouring 67 camaro..... never saw one other on the road, had more fun than i ever could have imagined, and the comments were all positive from people who appreciated seeing an old car being driven.... final thoughts..... i would rather drive than be parked in a lot all weekend... just sayin.

[pittpens24]

Well I am coming at this from the other side. I have a PT 68' Camaro that I just finished up and will most definitely be hitting a couple local cruise nights - Chatterbox in Augusta, NJ every Saturday afternoon-evening, Cops and Rodders at the Lowe's plaza in Hackettstown, NJ every Thursday evening and Cars and Coffee in Bethlehem, Pa at Steel Stacks. Also planning on hitting One or both of the Big shows - Lead East in Parsippany, NJ and/or Dead Man's Curve in Mahwah, NJ.
One thing I will say is that the weather has sucked lately. My car will not even roll out of the garage at the hint of rain. That alone has caused me to miss a few shows already.

[BonzoHansen]

Well I am coming at this from the other side. I have a PT 68' Camaro that I just finished up and will most definitely be hitting a couple local cruise nights - Chatterbox in Augusta, NJ every Saturday afternoon-evening, Cops and Rodders at the Lowe's plaza in Hackettstown, NJ every Thursday evening and Cars and Coffee in Bethlehem, Pa at Steel Stacks. Also planning on hitting One or both of the Big shows - Lead East in Parsippany, NJ and/or Dead Man's Curve in Mahwah, NJ.
One thing I will say is that the weather has sucked lately. My car will not even roll out of the garage at the hint of rain. That alone has caused me to miss a few shows already.

I almost went to chatterbox last night. But rain..... its an hour 1/2 from me.

[shelteredchevelle]

I've been trying to figure out what to do for a couple years now (and of coarse lurking here and LateralG)and ended up doing my build purely by chance. I was looking for a 66 or 67 Chevelle to make a fun driver out of and after looking at a ton of rusty, crappy junk I bought a 36K mile 300 sedan. I changed direction and called the nice folks at Schwartz to build me one of their chassis to lay my body and 572 and TKO 600 into. I don't think I would call it a P/T, but it sure as hell isn't gonna sit much at shows. There is zero presence of P/T out here besides one buddy that has a 66 Nova built to drive. Besides all that, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Pro Tour is besides a really, really expensive build. LOL I'm kinda going for a bolt together setup because I have zero fab skilz, not a lot of cash, and like to do my own wrenching. We'll see how this goes....

[USAZR1]

I've been trying to figure out what to do for a couple years now (and of coarse lurking here and LateralG)and ended up doing my build purely by chance. I was looking for a 66 or 67 Chevelle to make a fun driver out of and after looking at a ton of rusty, crappy junk I bought a 36K mile 300 sedan. I changed direction and called the nice folks at Schwartz to build me one of their chassis to lay my body and 572 and TKO 600 into. I don't think I would call it a P/T, but it sure as hell isn't gonna sit much at shows. There is zero presence of P/T out here besides one buddy that has a 66 Nova built to drive. Besides all that, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly Pro Tour is besides a really, really expensive build. LOL I'm kinda going for a bolt together setup because I have zero fab skilz, not a lot of cash, and like to do my own wrenching. We'll see how this goes....

Not a lot of cash but enough to afford a Schwartz chassis, 572" big block, and a TKO. Ok. :lmao:

[pittpens24]

I almost went to chatterbox last night. But rain..... its an hour 1/2 from me.

Sweet maybe I'll see ya there - not gonna chance this coming saturday, but maybe 1st week in August

[thedugan]

If you guys go on Aug4th I would go. Gotta get there before the places closes and turns into a wawa/quick check. how sad. represent the pro-touring community ..

[76TA]

I live out in Buffalo NY. We have a facebook group with over 5,000 members. Of those members...I'd guess only 1,000 have a car worth mentioning. Out of all the shows I've gone to I've only seen 3 or 4 true pro-touring cars and mine (not even complete yet) is one of them.

Our area has one SCCA event per month and I've only seen 2 true protouring cars compete.

Like others have mentioned...building a pro-touring car is simply not practical for an ordinary car guy. For $60,000 you can buy a new GT350 and run circles around most pro-touring cars without the fuss and dedication required to transform a 50 year old car in to a canyon carver.

But. At the end of the day we know which one is cooler.

[BonzoHansen]

We're hitting chatterbox on 8/18

And word on the street is last cruise night is 9/1

[CarlC]

Living in So. Cal one would expect a ton of PT cars around. Nope.

Bob's Big Boy on Riverside Drive on Friday nights may have an occasional PT car, but on the odd occasion I bring the Camaro, I'm it.

I'm at a Saturday night show right now waiting for dinner. There's one other patina Nova that's PT. The rest are the same cars that make the local car show rounds . I'm leaving after eating since its driving me nuts.

These are really more social events than car shows. The cars never evolve.

As mentioned above, we believe there are LS-swapped on every corner. Not so, and cars that are really sorted well are few and far between with the car show circuit.

Want to see the cool stuff? Show up to a So. Cal NMCA Autocross event. An USCA event. Midwest Musclecar Challenge. These events where the well prepared show up to drive their junk are far more fulfilling than a Friday night cruise in.

[cpd004]

Mark, IIRC, I saw your car at the Scarecrow Fest car show a few years back. (Unless I'm mixing up my shows). I was their with my family, so I wasn't in my Firebird at the time. I remember walking the field and your car was the only one in a PT style there. It's basically the same thing where I am, on the south east tip of ****cago bordering Hammond. I go to a lot of shows in the area and am most often the only PT style guy there. I daily drove my car throughout the summer until this year. I made a few changes over this past winter, but with my schedule and family commitments, it's hard to get it back together.

[Mark Antrim]

Cpd004, it was the scarecrow fest. We will have to get together next time your at a show.

[USAZR1]

I'm only speaking for myself but I don't want protouring cars to become so common, that everyone and their brother owns one.

[cpd004]

Cpd004, it was the scarecrow fest. We will have to get together next time your at a show.

Sounds good!

[pittpens24]

We're hitting chatterbox on 8/18

And word on the street is last cruise night is 9/1

Went to Chatterbox over the weekend - was an ok turnout - only one other pro-tour there. On 8/18 there is a big show by Cops and Rodders at the Lowe's in Hackettstown, NJ. My car will be there representing Valhalla Restoration. They get enough cars to take over the Lowe's and Wendy's parking lots - some very nice builds show up there, but you have to pay to show there - not a cruise like Chatterbox

[Mark Antrim]

I agree with usazr1, I don't like being the in thing. I guess I was really wondering if pro touring is as big as the magazines and social media has made it look.
I went to my first cars and coffee Sunday and figured it would be all imports and maybe a few new cars. Boy was I right, subaru, Honda, ford focus and Audi were all represented well. I got a lot of stares and when I popped the hood and they saw an ls in the compartment, most were shocked. I got a lot of questions and lots were wondering about the pt lifestyle. I think the car made an impression and some even asked what was the next autocross event I'd be attending.

[Max_2018]

Germany.
A few old US-cars and a handful of European classics get lowered (and the americans often get flame-wraps).
But largely, the climate is still that if you put the wrong wheels on a car you get a lecture.
You don't really see much modification on vintage cars.

Max

[76TA]

I'm only speaking for myself but I don't want protouring cars to become so common, that everyone and their brother owns one.

Not to worry. They are too expensive for that to ever happen.

[cornfedbill]

I just participated in the Sandhills Open Road Challenge. 139 drivers showed up with all types of cars that are suitable for Pro-touring events. Most were Corvettes. There were lots of Mustangs and Camaros. There were a sprinkling of other cars from our HHR SS to a mid-engine turbo VW GTI and a DeTomaso Pantera.

There was a short show after the shootout. But most of the week the cars were on the road, either practicing or racing. Yes, a few came on trailers. But most were driven.

No autocross, but a mile shootout and two open road race events.

I would consider this to be a real Pro-touring event.

The Blue HHR number 101 is us.

155734

[J-440]

Houston here. Big car meets in the Kemah/Galveston area. Lots of different cars of all types. Even the exotics come out to show. Usually I'm the only PT guy out here and when I show up, I get a nice crowd and a lot of questions. Weird because everyone knows what PT is but no one wants to bite the bullet. The kids like my car bc of the Fast and Furious movies but the old, original Mopar guys kind of frown. If the car's not stock with shi*#y handling, brakes, crappy tuning, and original chalk marks, they don't wanna chat. Usually the rat rod guys and the newer car guys like PT look.

[813Demon340]

The scene here in Reno, NV sounds a lot like many other places. Usually 1 or 2 at smaller local shows and several at the larger shows like Hot August Nights. By far the best showing of pro touring cars I've ever seen was at OUSCI, that was pro touring overload!

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

With protouring being in existence for over a decade if not two, how has the influence changed your local car shows, cars&coffee and/or local track events? Post your location with your thoughts about how strong or weak the protouring community is where you live.

Northwest Indiana is weak in that at car shows you'll see cars with the 18" rims but still stock brakes and maybe a 1-2"drop. Rat rods are still a very popular build and most people put their nose to the air if you don't know what your quarter mile time is. There is an scca club in the region and has an event 1 weekend a month during the non snow months. Small amount of muscle cars ,more imports at the scca events. If you want to see more protouing cars and their owners, you have to drive an hour into Chicago or to a protouring event.

We're in Southwest Michigan, so probably seeing a similar mix of cars as you Mark. Older group still rocking their Cragars and old school stance. Once in a while you'll see someone with the PT Look-a-like cars. When I was younger and building my C10 I couldn't get enough of car shows. Probably because I was on the hunt for new ideas and to see what other people come up with. There are several big shows (1,000 - 2,000 cars) throughout the year along with a lot of smaller shows (100 - 200 cars) every weekend within a 50 mile radius. But you go to enough of them, it's the same cars every weekend. After finishing the C10 and being a Long Hauler in the Hot Rod Power Tour in 2014, we hit quite a few shows the first couple of seasons with it. But then I came across Motor State Challenge put on by Lane Automotive. I entered in the Touring Class just to see if I would like it and I was bit hard by the PT Bug. All I can say is after that I could not find much interest in the local car show scene. Especially when you sit there all day and it is the same people winning awards at every show. I won a fair share of Top 30 awards but it became boring really quick to sit all day just to receive a $10 wall plaque. Show we picked up a 69 Chevelle and sold the Pickup. We'll still hit a few local favorite Cruise-in's but will be aiming more for the driving events throughout the Midwest. Here's a pic of the rendering we had done for the Chevelle.

[SonomaZ]

I'm in a Minneapolis suburb and I'm seeing a lot of the same at car shows. As in, same old, same old. Similar to what a lot of you have been saying /seeing.
Full-on restos, mild customs, 80's throwbacks (Cragars, stinkbug stance), and MAYBE a couple PT wannabes with the 18's and red calipers. Purpose-built PT cars/trucks? Nope.

My take is that the "real" PT cars (other than the big-buck pro builds) are being built to be driven and enjoyed, not shown.
Not that you can't or couldn't show most of them, it's just that most would rather spend weekends at the track or road-tripping and not in a lawn chair or cruising a fairgrounds.

[79 Camaro]

I'm "up north" of MPLS about 150 miles. My builds have been semi- pro tour. LS engines, bigger brakes, typically C5 all around and updated suspension components. Not new after market frame type builds. No real pro tour builds around here. Some very nice street rods and restored muscle cars. Lot's of semi-restored cars from years past restorations.
The only really pro touring gathering is at the Oreillys Street Machine Nationals in July. Many run the autocross. Some are quite fast. They are from all over the upper mid-west.

[SPLATT71MC]

I'm from the Seattle area and don't see many purpose built pro touring cars in this area. There are a lot of restmod type cars and drag race style cars. I think most people want a car that has better handling,braking and comfort than what what they had from the factory but don't want to live with a borderline road race car everyday.

[Aficionado]

I recently went to a major Corvette event in the Midwest with four figures worth of Corvettes present from all generations....and only saw two frame-swapped, LS’d legit PT cars, both of which were in vendors’ booths. I think we’re so wrapped up in what we like that it’s hard to remember how uncommon—and amazing—what we do really is.

[George Az]

Not too many in North Arizona, if any at all. The current quest seems to be rat rods and or the quest for a resto mod which one can flip and make more money. There are a lot of drag racers who make the trip to Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson and Cali to run in the quarter mile. I have more friends and acquaintances with dragsters than anything resembling a P/T rig. Old trucks are hot right now too and there are a few guys doing it right, but most just lower and bag it. Not that lowering and bagging is wrong, it is what it is.

I think there is plenty of room for growth and I see a bunch of really cool rides passing through, being driven as the tours go through old Route 66. There were three Panteras at a car show in Winslow last month and they all drove in. There are lots of the new Camaros, Stangs, Challengers and Vettes passing through. Many with the "look" but not too much on upgrading the brakes. They want to sound "V 8" and look good. I am sure many drive very well, but not too many are P/T.

But, I think there is some interest gaining in areas like the "Flying Mile" or half mile. Somebody had one on the east side of the state and I missed it, but I am hearing some interest in those type of speed events.

[BonzoHansen]

Not to reopen the great definition arguement. But you don't need $15,000+ suspension to be considered pro touring. Some of ya'll are looking for unicorns.

[cornfedbill]

Not to reopen the great definition arguement. But you don't need $15,000+ suspension to be considered pro touring. Some of ya'll are looking for unicorns.

I barely have $15k in my whole car. but then, I have fabricated a lot of stuff others would buy.

[Martin71RS]

Here in the Netherlands we have a decent amount of pro-touring cars... at every larger meeting you will see a few. Since it's a small country a lot of the guys know each other. We don't have autoX events and the few that run their car on the track use open track days for that.