Share your formula for a $50,000 pro-touring car or truck -- approximate

[Steve Chryssos]

There's another thread asking how much to build a high end pro-touring car. It's always fun to talk about cars like that. You can compare their cost as a performance bargain relative to buying a new Ferrari or Porsche 911. Since most of us don't have Ferrari money lying around, please share your build or build strategy for approximately $50K -- plus or minus. That's new Camaro SS money (fully loaded) to Camaro ZLl or Z28 money (gently used).

I know you're out there. I see you at events from coast to coast all the time.
/Steve

EDIT: Tell us where you think it's best to save money and where to focus money. And yes... this includes the cost of the vehicle.

[Build-It-Break-It]

Steve are you asking for ANY "pro touring" build less then $50k? You mentioned the newer Camaro but I personally don't even consider them "pro touring" from my perspective based on this website and others. I feel for me "pro touring" would be an older muscle car and those are hard to build right in the $50k price range. Not sure if other people group the newer and older cars together but I usually don't even like watching the newer cars run at events even tho I do love and appreciate the newer cars. The newer Camaros are cool and so are the Newer corvettes and Mustang but those build threads usually don't get much traffic and aren't as appealing.

The cost of an older desirable muscle car (67 to 73 camaro?),Sheet metal, wiring, fuel system, brake system, rear end, gauges,LS motor, trans etc etc add up fast.

The cars your seeing at events Steve are you assuming the person built them for less then $50k based on looks and parts bolted on? Or you personally asked prices? I hope these questions or comments aren't coming off wrong. I'm really interested as well.

Most cars I've seen at an event look at least in the $80k to $120k range. I'm only speaking of the older muscle cars.

[Steve Chryssos]

No I'm only referencing the new Camaros as a cost target. Old cars and trucks only.

[Build-It-Break-It]

The $50k plus or minus price range you saw at events, is this you guesstimating or you asked the owner?

[rickpaw]

I have about 50K ish in my 67 Firebird, including the cost of the car. I did 99% of the work myself, other than spraying the final color coat.

The biggest thing that can cause the car building budget to get out control is scope creep. Having realistic goal, and plan your build accordingly will keep the cost in control.

If I were to do it over, I can probably spend in the high 30's to build car similar to mine.

[JustJohn]

I don't know that I would use performance bargain relative to a Porsche or Ferrari. Getting a classic into the same performance neighborhood as those cars usually costs more than just buying a Porsche. More like buying a Porsche twice.


There's another thread asking how much to build a high end pro-touring car. It's always fun to talk about cars like that. You can compare their cost as a performance bargain relative to buying a new Ferrari or Porsche 911. Since most of us don't have Ferrari money lying around, please share your build or build strategy for approximately $50K -- plus or minus. That's new Camaro SS money (fully loaded) to Camaro ZLl or Z28 money (gently used).

I know you're out there. I see you at events from coast to coast all the time.
/Steve

EDIT: Tell us where you think it's best to save money and where to focus money. And yes... this includes the cost of the vehicle.

[Steve Chryssos]

Hi Ahmad,
Both. Some of us are better at sourcing cheap cars and trucks than others. Some of us excel at applying skills like welding and painting. ..and some of us are working themes like patina. I love approaching people a events and bench racing. Most people are proud of their judgement calls. Like starting with a C3 Corvette instead of a more expensive C2 Corvette or emphasizing springs and shocks over tubular control arms or starting with a A-body because it will accommodate fat tires without mini tubs and already has a 4-link. Stuff like that...

Surely someone has a basic recipe with costs to share.. I see tons of these threads in the Project section. Andrew Borodin? Callin' you out!

[Steve Chryssos]

I don't know that I would use performance bargain relative to a Porsche or Ferrari. Getting a classic into the same performance neighborhood as those cars usually costs more than just buying a Porsche. More like buying a Porsche twice.

I would... A 2018 Ferrari 488GTB has an MSRP of $252,800. I guarantee you could build a C3 Corvette with an LT4 and our Track 1 suspension with Instinct electronic shocks that would run with it, competitively. But this is a $50K thread, not a six figure thread.:look:
/Steve

[stab6902]

If you're trying to maximize your $50k in the pro-touring world, you're best off buying a pre-built car that's not a super popular body style. The more picky you are, the more patient you'll have to be, but lots of good stuff pops up on here, Craigslist, all the big auctions, ebay, etc.

$50k might not buy your dream 69 Camaro, 70 Chevelle, or 63 Corvette, but it will buy you less popular model years or brands. This Cutlass that just popped up on here is a great example:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/128610-1972-Cutlass-Supreme

I know I couldn't build that car for that money, even considering my labor as free.

[Ron Sutton]

There's another thread asking how much to build a high end pro-touring car. It's always fun to talk about cars like that. You can compare their cost as a performance bargain relative to buying a new Ferrari or Porsche 911. Since most of us don't have Ferrari money lying around, please share your build or build strategy for approximately $50K -- plus or minus. That's new Camaro SS money (fully loaded) to Camaro ZLl or Z28 money (gently used).

I know you're out there. I see you at events from coast to coast all the time.
/Steve

EDIT: Tell us where you think it's best to save money and where to focus money. And yes... this includes the cost of the vehicle.

Hey Steve! This is a GREAT idea. I think we'll get people sharing tips to save money, build things right and figure out the priorities. Love it.

I'll start by adding some thoughts ...

1. Figure out BEFORE your build even starts:
a. How you want to use the car
b. What are your goals for the car
c. What are your priorities from a & b
d. Timeline to have the car done & enjoying driving it

With all of the above, be realistic with yous:
A. Hours available & timeline to build
B. Money saved & money you can set aside each month
C. Your skills ... and skills of friends who will help ... that you can do yourself
D. What has to be outsourced
E. What needs to be bought new & what can be bought used

Write up a list of what you want to do ... along with projected cost & hours ... for:
* Base car
* Body & Paint
* Interior
* Suspension
* Rear end & 3rd Member
* Trans & Driveline
* Engine & Accessories
* Exhaust
* Brakes
* Amenities (A/C, stereo, etc)

Ask yourself is this build realistic with my time & budget to get done in 1 year, 2 years, longer?
Then figure out if you need to trim or increase the budget to achieve what you want.

My suggestion ... and this is ONLY my opinion. Do not come up with unrealistic build goals, that take many years to get the car done. Some people enjoy the build MORE than driving the car. I don't think this advice applies to you. But those of you that want to be out there driving, autocrossing and/or tracking your car ... my suggestion is don't make the goal so lofty the project takes forever to get done. I see projects taking 3, 4, 5 even 10 years to build. Shoot ... if I was in your shoes, I'd skip the $20,000 paint job & run that puppy the way the paint is. Or go do a $2,000 body wrap & call it good.

Just my opinion. Best wishes all !


P.S. When I get more time, I'll come back on here & share ways to make your car perform at a high level, without wasting money.

[JustJohn]

My point is $50k will not get you the same performance, which is why the basis for comparison doesn't work. I hope to not total out too much over that on my own car but even with suspension and engine upgrades mostly complete, it doesn't handle like my new car.

A $50k thread is entirely realistic for most of us in this hobby, I am just being realistic about performance expectations.


I would... A 2018 Ferrari 488GTB has an MSRP of $252,800. I guarantee you could build a C3 Corvette with an LT4 and our Track 1 suspension with Instinct electronic shocks that would run with it, competitively. But this is a $50K thread, not a six figure thread.:look:
/Steve

[Turbo6inKY]

Hey Steve! This is a GREAT idea. I think we'll get people sharing tips to save money, build things right and figure out the priorities. Love it.

I'll start by adding some thoughts ...

1. Figure out BEFORE your build even starts:
a. How you want to use the car
b. What are your goals for the car
c. What are your priorities from a & b
d. Timeline to have the car done & enjoying driving it

With all of the above, be realistic with yous:
A. Hours available & timeline to build
B. Money saved & money you can set aside each month
C. Your skills ... and skills of friends who will help ... that you can do yourself
D. What has to be outsourced
E. What needs to be bought new & what can be bought used

Write up a list of what you want to do ... along with projected cost & hours ... for:
* Base car
* Body & Paint
* Interior
* Suspension
* Rear end & 3rd Member
* Trans & Driveline
* Engine & Accessories
* Exhaust
* Brakes
* Amenities (A/C, stereo, etc)

Ask yourself is this build realistic with my time & budget to get done in 1 year, 2 years, longer?
Then figure out if you need to trim or increase the budget to achieve what you want.

My suggestion ... and this is ONLY my opinion. Do not come up with unrealistic build goals, that take many years to get the car done. Some people enjoy the build MORE than driving the car. I don't think this advice applies to you. But those of you that want to be out there driving, autocrossing and/or tracking your car ... my suggestion is don't make the goal so lofty the project takes forever to get done. I see projects taking 3, 4, 5 even 10 years to build. Shoot ... if I was in your shoes, I'd skip the $20,000 paint job & run that puppy the way the paint is. Or go do a $2,000 body wrap & call it good.

Just my opinion. Best wishes all !


P.S. When I get more time, I'll come back on here & share ways to make your car perform at a high level, without wasting money.



See, now, Ron, you've just ruined the the conversation with a practical outline of what a successful project plan looks like. Darn you.

[JustJohn]

Ron - your input will be nice to see.

[Build-It-Break-It]

Well I'll add to what to save money on and what to spend it on. I've never started a build thread or introduction (I should ) but I have a 68 camaro I bought for $3800 8 years ago that I've done 100% of the work on and I'm not close to $50k yet in parts on the car with purchase of the car. It had minimal rust and i thought $3800 was expensive back then but couldn't find one in better condition for cheaper. But I've done 100% of the work (sheet metal etc), No time frame to build it, trial and error on some things. My parts list below, but its still not on the road until maybe the end of next year and I've owned it 8 years. My family takes priority as this is just a hobby for me and there's no money gained at the end of the build just money lose and time lost. I work a regular 9 to 5 job and live in California were everything is expensive.

My parts list:
I have Speedtech extreme suspension front and torque arm rear, speedway floater rear end, NASCAR built center section with oil cooler, carbon drive shaft, vaporworx fuel system, vintage air, supercharged 5.3 LS motor,Jake's performance built 4l80e and billet converter Recaro seats, full 12 point cage, carbon fiber hood ,trunk, upper and lower valance and cowl, Brembo brakes front and rear, racepak gauges, wilwood pedal set up, collapsible steering column,etc etc.

Some parts used, most parts new, some blem sales, 10% off summit racing sales etc etc.

Spend money on:
Best suspension suspension (for intended use) and shocks you can afford
Best brake system(for intended use)
Best fuel system(for intended use)
Best cage installer (if your going that far)
Safest seats ( regardless of intended use)
Quality gauges (racepak etc)
Collapsible steering column (regardless of intended use)
Floater rear end

Save on:
Junkyard engine (HP can always be upgraded later)
Used NASCAR 3rd member (if you go with a ford 9")
No expensive paint job
No carbon body parts
No fancy sheet metal work (bead rolling, shaved this or that)
If you can bolt it on you can always usually add it later in the build

Just my thoughts. Everyone's goal is different, income is different and skill set is different.

[BonzoHansen]

I thought about this on a conference call I should not have been invited to…..

Easily doable if you make good choices, don’t need a ‘special’ car, stick to your plan, and don’t try to keep up with the Jones. You are not looking to build a SEMA car. Expectations can kill lol.


Major keys before you buy, with an eye towards the $50k budget PT car.


#1 Labor: The more work you can do yourself obviously helps. So if you have to pay others to do labor for you the costs rise exponentially. Most ‘garages’ don’t want to get too far into modifications of an old car, and really don’t have the know-how. So the ‘specialist’ is probably going to cost more. This drives all other points. The more work you can do means more money for upgrades and initial purchase. Side note on labor: Do you have time to do what you want?


#2 Car: It’s like buying a house. Better bones up front reduces costs later, and some neighborhoods are cost prohibitive to the average person.

Paint is a giant cost – buy a painted car, or be happy with aged look (I hate the term patina lol). If you are not a body guy rust is show stopper, keep shopping.
Middle class cars are cheaper than high end cars. So that nice 69 RS is $40k+ out of the gate. Not much room for upgrades. A clean plain jane 69 Camaro is half that or less. You’re modifying a car, provenance (Z28, SS etc) is unimportant.
A $12k 81 Z28 or 87 Monte SS sure leaves a lot more on the table for upgrades.
Staying more mainstream can help – oddball cars can have expensive parts you’d never expect. Pick a car with robust aftermarket support = more parts, more options.
Caveat on this: Stielow once said he builds 1st gens instead of something like a Nova because the other than initial car purchase, the rest of the project is the same cost, and the 1st gen has higher resale. So, yeah, important note taken.

#3 Needs: Be very honest as to your planned usage. Cheating here is just cheating yourself and insures failure. Are you really going to open track it? That’s a whole different conversation in costs, and a true RR car is no street car. We are talking pro-touring not am-racing. For example giant 6 piston brakes with dinner plate rotors are nice – but for a 99.5% street car with maybe a little autocross time does not need $6000+ in brakes. You can always upgrade again later if your needs change. Same for $10k in tires & wheels. Another point: Is your significant other and/or kids going to ride in it often? That might require/preclude certain changes. Like seat belts and AC, and no roll bars/cage. Family buy in carries some weight.


#4 Budget: If outside labor is needed you must talk to folks who have BTDT to get an idea what install costs really are. Regarding parts best I can say don’t forget the nickel & dime stuff that will smoke your budget. Fluids, hardware, towing, hoses, batteries, paint, cleaners, rags, etc. I’ll bet N&D stuff is at least 30% of the actual cost. So at minimum add 35% SIF to your parts budget. (Stuff I forgot).

#5 Parts: Once those are all answered, making a parts list & plan is much easier. I bet I could plan out a nice 2nd gen Camaro for under $30k that is fun to drive and reliable. Just remember a few old adages: “Chrome don’t get you home” and “Fast, Cheap, Reliable – pick 2”. They are true more than not.


One more note: keep your car drivable as much as you can. Incremental upgrades spread the cost and keep up the interested. That old SBC will still take you to the ice cream cruise until you upgrade. These forums are full of stories of people giving up on 10+ year never ending projects. Pro-Jackstand cars are slow & no fun. And if things go wrong a driving car is easier to sell. Yes, no one sells, I know…..

[parsonsj]

One other thing I think one can do reduce costs, and it's kind of a subtle point. Buy parts as you are ready to install them. Stockpiling parts is a recipe for buying stuff you'll never use and it sucks up money and takes up space you could be saving or using to make faster progress on the current part of your build. A corollary to that is to not buy things you see online that's "a good deal", most especially if those parts aren't part of the plan as detailed nicely by others above.

[BonzoHansen]

One other thing I think one can do reduce costs, and it's kind of a subtle point. Buy parts as you are ready to install them. Stockpiling parts is a recipe for buying stuff you'll never use and it sucks up money and takes up space you could be saving or using to make faster progress on the current part of your build. A corollary to that is to not buy things you see online that's "a good deal", most especially if those parts aren't part of the plan as detailed nicely by others above.

100% agreed

[mike@sim-seats]

Speaking strictly in terms of vehicle performance, and comparing to newer cars, I do not believe that there are any bargains. Think about what a $15k C5 corvette gets you. There really just is no comparison.

That said, it doesn't matter to me. If I was starting from scratch today I would do one of the trucks on a panther chassis. Figure $10k for a clean truck, $7k for the newest/nicest police interceptor I could find. From there I'd be looking to get power up to around 300HP at the wheels and spend another chunk of money on wheels, tires, and cooling upgrades. That would leave a good amount for paint, interior, and safety equipment.

I'm guessing I would struggle to spend the $50k on this unless I didn't do the labor myself, or went crazy with paint.

[Ron Sutton]

Spend money on:
Best suspension suspension (for intended use) and shocks you can afford
Best brake system(for intended use)
Best fuel system(for intended use)
Best cage installer (if your going that far)
Safest seats ( regardless of intended use)
Quality gauges (racepak etc)
Collapsible steering column (regardless of intended use)
Floater rear end

Save on:
Junkyard engine (HP can always be upgraded later)
Used NASCAR 3rd member (if you go with a ford 9")
No expensive paint job
No carbon body parts
No fancy sheet metal work (bead rolling, shaved this or that)
If you can bolt it on you can always usually add it later in the build

Just my thoughts. Everyone's goal is different, income is different and skill set is different.

Good points !

[Ron Sutton]

More good points Bonzo & John.

Bonzo, you'd have more money to build cars if you stay out of strip clubs in Parhump!
(Inside joke y'all)

[BonzoHansen]

More good points Bonzo & John.

Bonzo, you'd have more money to build cars if you stay out of strip clubs in Parhump!
(Inside joke y'all)

I was keeping you out!

[JustJohn]

If I were really trying to build something strictly for autocross that I could fit in (mine was a compromise for spousal backseat), I'd build an LS engined TR7. Solid bodies are still easy and cheap to find, they just don't run. You can add big brakes, flares, and rubber for the same price as any other car and it's a very compact package.

[Steve Chryssos]

If I were really trying to build something strictly for autocross that I could fit in (mine was a compromise for spousal backseat), I'd build an LS engined TR7. Solid bodies are still easy and cheap to find, they just don't run. You can add big brakes, flares, and rubber for the same price as any other car and it's a very compact package.

...and a 5.3L LS is "big". Where's the "like" button?
Steve

[Steve Chryssos]

My parts list:
I have Speedtech extreme suspension front and torque arm rear, speedway floater rear end, NASCAR built center section with oil cooler, carbon drive shaft, vaporworx fuel system, vintage air, supercharged 5.3 LS motor,Jake's performance built 4l80e and billet converter Recaro seats, full 12 point cage, carbon fiber hood ,trunk, upper and lower valance and cowl, Brembo brakes front and rear, racepak gauges, wilwood pedal set up, collapsible steering column,etc etc.


That's a great build. ...some serious hardware. Show us a pic some day.
Steve

[Tincup]

I would do a Factory 5 Cobra. The base kit is 20K, throw in a Coyote and a 5 speed, wheels, tires & paint and your autocrossing for less than 50K ....:drive2:

[JustJohn]

...and a 5.3L LS is "big". Where's the "like" button?
Steve

50 lbs heavier than the stock 4 banger that doesn't run.

[BonzoHansen]

Somewhat related. https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/9-common-restoration-mistakes/

[Build-It-Break-It]

Here it is Steve. I'm trying to have it a completed roller by the end of the year and running by the end of next year.

No fancy paint going on it, No fancy wheels, No custom interior. But all the suspension and parts is the best I could afford and not a $50k build that should still get the job done. All work was mostly done in my old 2 car garage until I got my home now with a shop.

153509153510153511153512

[USAZR1]

Protouring on a budget? I like the direction this thread is going.

[USAZR1]

If I were really trying to build something strictly for autocross that I could fit in (mine was a compromise for spousal backseat), I'd build an LS engined TR7. Solid bodies are still easy and cheap to find, they just don't run. You can add big brakes, flares, and rubber for the same price as any other car and it's a very compact package.

I like the way you think. About twenty years ago, there was a nicely built prostreet TR7, in our town, that was insanely quick and just looked Mean! Your idea makes way more sense.

[parsonsj]

Let's not get into pro-touring definitions, but given the TR2 and Cobra suggestions:

I love the FFR 818. $50k for a modest build using mostly new parts is easily achievable, and the resulting car will run with any pro-touring car. It's light, fast, and something one can build at home without needing expensive paint or interior.

[lobudget]

I would do a Factory 5 Cobra. The base kit is 20K, throw in a Coyote and a 5 speed, wheels, tires & paint and your autocrossing for less than 50K ....:drive2:

Sounds like a good plan. LSX for the one I'm building though.

[TheJDMan]

I did 100% of the work myself so all I have in Dust Off is the parts. Labor is a MAJOR expense and I could not have built this car if I had to pay someone else to do the work. Learning to weld and do basic metal work is almost mandatory. Also, John made an excellent point about not buying parts until you need them. I see so many people that collect parts for years only to have the parts become obsolete, or their preferences change by the time the parts are needed. I would also point out that once a part is purchased the warranty on it is ticking. If you have a problem with a 2 or 3 year old new part with a 90 day warranty you are just out of luck.

[badazz81z28]

Well isn’t this easy? A used C5...a stock C5 will perform better in stock form then really old car with mods. A stock C5, swap the engine for a 400 cube LS, minor suspension upgrades and tires...it will be very competitive .

[Build-It-Break-It]

Well isn’t this easy? A used C5...a stock C5 will perform better in stock form then really old car with mods. A stock C5, swap the engine for a 400 cube LS, minor suspension upgrades and tires...it will be very competitive .

From the OP

"No I'm only referencing the new Camaros as a cost target. Old cars and trucks only."

[CSG]

I believe part of the problem with this thread is what the perceived definition of "pro-touring car" is. It was further clouded with the new Camaro reference as that alluded to the fact that we are trying to match that car's performance with this 50k build, which we won't (with a classic car). I agree with OP that I see quite a few sub 50k cars (my opinion) that have a pro-tour theme that I find to be cool cars.

[badazz81z28]

From the OP

"No I'm only referencing the new Camaros as a cost target. Old cars and trucks only."


Lol....define “old”. A 1997-04 Corvette isn’t exactly a new car....as sad as that is. 20+ years lol

[Steve Chryssos]

Lol....define “old”. A 1997-04 Corvette isn’t exactly a new car....as sad as that is. 20+ years lol

That's too easy! :hmm:

[Steve Chryssos]

No fancy paint going on it, No fancy wheels, No custom interior. But all the suspension and parts is the best I could afford and not a $50k build that should still get the job done. All work was mostly done in my old 2 car garage until I got my home now with a shop.

153510

Awesome.. All business.:twothumbs
/Steve

[badazz81z28]

From the OP

"No I'm only referencing the new Camaros as a cost target. Old cars and trucks only."


Lol....define “old”. A 1997-04 Corvette isn’t exactly a new car....as sad as that is. 20+ years lol

[btmatt]

Ahmad, your car has a twin in south Texas. My formula is to decide what size tire and wheel you want front and rear. This will dictate what is needed for power, braking, and suspension to meet the capability of those shoes. Budget then increases with capability.

[JustJohn]

Lol....define “old”. A 1997-04 Corvette isn’t exactly a new car....as sad as that is. 20+ years lol

One of my engineers is proud of 2 of his classic cars...a 1st gen MR2 and a 3rd gen RX-7

As much as I hate to admit it, the MR2 actually qualifies. He's fitted a later, larger, Toyota engine and added a turbo, filled up the wheel wells, and is trying to decide on a big brake solution.

I like the car, just have to curl into the fetal position to sit in it.

[Chad-1stGen]

I'll play. I sat down and created a huge spreadsheet of what I would do if building an all out autocross pro touring car out of a classic today. Here is an aggregated breakdown. It assumes labor is done by the builder and that you can weld. Welding is a small part and there is room in the budget to pay for that if needed.


$10K Purchase car - Early Mustang with nice but older paint (these are readily available in SoCal at this price range. Common paint condition will protect the metal and look good but won't win car shows). These will also be running and driving and can sell the drive train for a few bucks
$12K Suspension - TCI IFS front suspension (includes single adjustable ridetech coil overs and sway bar) with 13" wilwood upgrade. TCI rear torque arm with Ridetech single adjustable and swaybar upgrades. Grand National Floater with wilwood calipers and Strange center section with true trac. Wilwood master, pre bent brake line kit. Could go with the Currie full floater and have all the brackets welded by TCI for about $1K more
$10K Drivetrain - LS3/T6060 pullout with all accessories and wiring harness ($6K), Additional $4k to cover tuning ($500), aftermarket pan ($500), fuel system ($500 retroworx based), radiator & fan ($320), exhaust ($500, keep manifolds), driveshaft ($500 IE), fluids ($100), A list of other misc items that took me up to the $10k.
$1K Interior - left bone stock except for a fixed back drivers seat and belts.
$3.2K Wheels/tires - Forgestar Wheels & 200tw tires. Target tire size of 275
$5K fudge factor for unforeseen parts. But I already have lots of little items added in for things like brake lines, making power steering hoses, fluids, etc.
$41.2K Total.



I would have no problem beating a stock $50K Camaro with a typical autocross driver with the above setup. Would it have the ergonomics and comfort of the $50k Camaro for cruising around town? No. Would it be a blast to drive? Hell yes.

Do Fox Bodies count? Because if so, here is a regional winning autocross fox body build for dirt cheap that commonly beats CAM-C late model Camaros. Lots of room left in the budget to add nice paint and interior. Autocross Fox Body Cheap! (https://www.autoxandtrack.com/budget-autocross-fox-body/)

[BonzoHansen]

Seems like you could buy this, but an engine and you have a pretty nice little car

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/128452-73-Camaro-LS3-TR6060

[Build-It-Break-It]

Ahmad, your car has a twin in south Texas. My formula is to decide what size tire and wheel you want front and rear. This will dictate what is needed for power, braking, and suspension to meet the capability of those shoes. Budget then increases with capability.

That's bad @$$

[ClosNova805]

Are those the Z06 wheels how do you guys run those with spacers I'm currently building my 69 ls nova on a college student budget lol no such thing need wheels to fit my baer T4 kit up front.

[btmatt]

Yes, those are C5 Z06 wheels on my camaro. The rear has 1" spacer on stock width rear end and required mini tubs to clear. The fronts require 1 1/4" spacer, but may vary based upon your brake package (we currently run ATS spindle, wilwood hat and rotor)

[Build-It-Break-It]

Are those the Z06 wheels how do you guys run those with spacers I'm currently building my 69 ls nova on a college student budget lol no such thing need wheels to fit my baer T4 kit up front.

The rear end on my car was made 62" wms to wms so they fit prefect. It's also mini tubed with speedtech rear torque arm. The front of the car uses the speedtech extreme subframe so they also fit almost prefect. I don't run spacers front or rear. I'm running all 4 of the 18x10.5 c5Z06 wheels front and rear

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I’ve had my Cuda for 13 years and my recent $45k investment didn’t include the cost of the car. Today a complete Cuda will run 15k, minimum.

That said I watched key supplier sales for a year or two before I needed the parts and saved that information. 30% on SpeedHut for cyber Monday, 30% off Hotchkis on this date, etc. That helped get some deals on parts, the other is a plan and having patience. If you have a plan, you know what parts you need, if you know what parts you need and what a good deal is, you can strike quick on a good deal. $350 BBK throttle body showed up online for $150 shipped, I didn’t need it then but the deal was right.

Outside of that it comes to monitoring scope creep and doing the work yourself. The car cost would have easily been into six figures had I paid for more labor than just paint.

[rustomatic]

Step one is learn to weld, even on a really bad level. Everyone keeps going back to cost when the idea is to BUILD. While yes, all parts of a build cost money, avoiding paying someone to participate is the best way to save money; if learning to build is not worth your time, you are not a hotrodder in the classic or modern sense of the term. That's fine, because your money is well used by the manufacturers and vendors here. I've had years on both sides of the fence, and only after beating my head really hard against a brick wall for too long (doing the bolt-on parts thing) did I decide that the angle grinder and welder were the only ways I'd truly get a car to a level I wanted (within a semi-reasonable dollar limit).

So many people's number one or two is paint. What the hell does paint have to do with performance, which is the main point of hotrodding? Ahmad's example above is the perfect illustration. Guys in the old days did not put Cadillac engines in old Fords because they liked the color of the paint on the valve covers. They just wanted their junk to go fast. If the thing avoided being crashed or burned long enough, maybe paint would come . . .

I like how one guy mentions a Corvette C5 as an option, then another mentions spending 12 grand on a parts package for suspension. Seriously? To drive around cones in second gear and to roll up to Starbucks? Really? Why don't we look at the C5's parts cost on eBay? The cost of experience and skill (on any level) is arguably expensive, but good-working and extremely well-designed Corvette parts (or full parts assemblies like front and rear suspensions that come with steering and braking components) are not, comparatively speaking.

Sites like this are still great examples of free education, and there are guys like Ron Sutton who have given out awesome quantities of free information that will both save you money and maximize performance (like his brake thread). Learning is free. Is your hobby a hobby or is it a poorly disguised charity?

As for needing a Camaro to start with, again, you probably picked paint as number one. The greatest aesthetics in hotrodding have come from what happened after the car was chosen and modified (most often out of necessity for performance). Ron S.'s Mustang and AMX are good examples here.

With the right builder, whether home or shop-based, you can be made jealous of a 1972 Duster, even if you'd never buy it yourself. Slap C4 or C5 front and rear suspension on a cheap 2x2 frame (light, just like GT1 or Ron Sutton), then add your junkyard LS3 (with a decent cam and springs for the extra 80 horsepower) and TR6060, and you're in for what, 12 grand (along with whatever time it takes you to figure out how to put it together)? With the right driver and good tuning, this combo will make a GT3 owner on a track seriously consider his or her coolness and life choices, if only for a few golden moments. Options abound.

[XLexusTech]

50 k

Ok c5 corvette used in A1 pristine condition 20k
Ls7 t56 magnum 20k
Brake upgrade 5 k
Wheel tire upgrade 5k

Done

[dhutton]

Interesting thread but I haven’t seen anyone mention resale value. It seems to me that this should be considered when selecting a project. I don’t want to spend $50k on a car that will yield ten cents on the dollar if I decide to sell it.

Don

[Ron Sutton]

While many posts have been spot on, I think we're getting off track from the OP's intention for this thread. Steve was asking, or suggesting, we share our ideas of how to build a great Pro-Touring car to autocross, maybe track, etc ... for around or under $50K.

I'd like to suggest we not fantasize, but instead list real world ways to get the most performance for our buck building a 60's to 90's muscle car to beat on & have fun with. Ahmad has done a good job of showing us how he did his. John, Tu, Scott & others made great points too. Lance Hamilton should join in because his '85 Monte Carlo SS is a great performing car & I know he has under $50K in it.

Let's share realistic ways, ideas & methods to build a car the best way possible on a $50K budget.

[79 Camaro]

Can we throw a BMW E36 LS swap into the mix? They have tons of aftermarket support. Kind of like the Mustang or Camaro of Europe. Nice cars are cheep. As far as autocross the E36 are smaller so they can do the small autocross courses better. Just my .02. Finding a nice somewhat rust free late 60's - early 70's car for less than 10K won't be easy.

[Build-It-Break-It]

"I'd like to suggest we not fantasize, but instead list real world ways to get the most performance for our buck building a 60's to 90's muscle car to beat on & have fun with. "

When I think of a muscle car I wouldn't even consider a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo etc. Etc.. they're cool cars no doubt but not a muscle car by definition.

[csouth]

I'll bite... Since I've always liked 2nd Gen Camaro's and I just saw a a decent driver quality painted one for sale on CL in MI for 13k...

Assuming I'm doing all of the work :

'71 Camaro - 13,000
Speedtech Street Fighter front suspension and Rear Torque Arm- $8000
Forged wheels of my choice - 5,000 max
C6 Z06 conversion brake setup - 2500
LSA Pullout -12,000
T56 Magnum- 3500
Used Recaros- 500
Notched tank - 500 +/-

44K +/- Hard parts, all rounded up... The miscellaneous parts still would not be 6k.

[cornfedbill]

Hey Steve! This is a GREAT idea. I think we'll get people sharing tips to save money, build things right and figure out the priorities. Love it.

I'll start by adding some thoughts ...

1. Figure out BEFORE your build even starts:
a. How you want to use the car
b. What are your goals for the car
c. What are your priorities from a & b
d. Timeline to have the car done & enjoying driving it

With all of the above, be realistic with yous:
A. Hours available & timeline to build
B. Money saved & money you can set aside each month
C. Your skills ... and skills of friends who will help ... that you can do yourself
D. What has to be outsourced
E. What needs to be bought new & what can be bought used

Write up a list of what you want to do ... along with projected cost & hours ... for:
* Base car
* Body & Paint
* Interior
* Suspension
* Rear end & 3rd Member
* Trans & Driveline
* Engine & Accessories
* Exhaust
* Brakes
* Amenities (A/C, stereo, etc)

Ask yourself is this build realistic with my time & budget to get done in 1 year, 2 years, longer?
Then figure out if you need to trim or increase the budget to achieve what you want.

My suggestion ... and this is ONLY my opinion. Do not come up with unrealistic build goals, that take many years to get the car done. Some people enjoy the build MORE than driving the car. I don't think this advice applies to you. But those of you that want to be out there driving, autocrossing and/or tracking your car ... my suggestion is don't make the goal so lofty the project takes forever to get done. I see projects taking 3, 4, 5 even 10 years to build. Shoot ... if I was in your shoes, I'd skip the $20,000 paint job & run that puppy the way the paint is. Or go do a $2,000 body wrap & call it good.

Just my opinion. Best wishes all !


P.S. When I get more time, I'll come back on here & share ways to make your car perform at a high level, without wasting money.



Ron,

Always the engineer/program manager. This is a good list. I would add, "Don't give into scope creep." My simple refresh with new springs, shocks, bushings and a simple engine rebuild turned out to be out of hand.

Instead of rebuilding the stock '72 400 small block, I saved the block and replaced everything else.

I bought a used M21. Then when I rebuilt it, I saved the tailshaft housing, the front pilot, and the side cover assembly. In went new gears, shafts, bearings, housing, midplate... and lots of money.

What would have cost me about $3k is now closer to $20k and climbing. But spread over 20 years, the pain has not been too bad. It's only that cheap because of a lot of horse trading and performing all the labor myself - except some donated labor from friends and my sons.

As you can see, I finally broke down and called the project "Scope Creep".

Make a plan. Study the plan. Refine the plan on paper BEFORE buying ANYTHING. Check the plan again. Stick to the plan. Review the plan frequently to make sure you are still following it. Stick to the plan.

That's my advice.

[cornfedbill]

If you want to know what I consider the very best bang for the buck, I will tell you to buy a very clean C4 Corvette 6-speed for about $12k.
Clutch assembly with new flywheel $1k (a bit high but covers all the miscellaneous stuff you will run into)
Wheels and tires (C6 take-off wheels and good tires) $2000
Live with the paint.
Suspension upgrades - shocks, bushings, etc. $3500
Motor refresh and upgrades, if you are willing to build it yourself and can live with less than 500 ponies - $5k
Other stuff that is always broken and needs fixed - $10k

Under $35k and very capable.

I know it's not too sexy. But if all you want is bang for the buck, that's the ticket in my mind. Trust me, I've been pondering this route for my next build to use for open road racing, standing mile, and track days.

[BMR Sales]

When I think of a muscle car I wouldn't even consider a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo etc. Etc.. they're cool cars no doubt but not a muscle car by definition.

I do consider a LS Swapped of any of the above to be Muscle Cars or Pro-Touring Cars - Fun, Powerful, Comfortable, can Corner and Stop.

One of my next cars will be a LS swapped Porsche 944, engine weight is close to the 4 cyl and with double the reliable HP & Torque. I already race a LS3 Swapped Mercedes!

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/05/04/14333215_10202242780346499_285174079287730126_n.jp g

[Build-It-Break-It]

I do consider a LS Swapped of any of the above to be Muscle Cars or Pro-Touring Cars - Fun, Powerful, Comfortable, can Corner and Stop.

I think even tho YOU consider it a Muscle car most wouldn't and it's off topic of what the original poster is looking for I think.

On another note I'd like everyone to meet my friends. They have shells, weapons and they're green. By definition they're my friends the ninja turtles......

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I think even tho YOU consider it a Muscle car most wouldn't and it's off topic of what the original poster is looking for I think.

On another note I'd like everyone to meet my friends. They have shells, weapons and they're green. By definition they're my friends the ninja turtles......

:rotfl: Well done, sir.

[bret]

I have built cars for $15,000 [years ago] and for $500,000 [for a customer]. The $500,000 builds are not as much fun as it would appear…unlimited budgets come with unlimited expectations. They also take so long that there is the constant fear of obsolescence before its done.

My son and I are putting the finishing touches on a 1970 LS5 4 speed SS Chevelle that I picked up as a painted but unfinished project about 2 1/2 years ago. Totally rust free and complete except for the actual engine. $23K delivered from California to Indiana. We are building this car in our home garage instead of running through the normal RideTech shop. I did not have a particular budget in mind, but the goal was to build him a car that was fun, reliable and cool for as little money as possible. I have not yet kept track of the invoices but I have them and will tally and report back here.
I had a used LS3 E-rod engine that still ran nicely so I hooked that up to the original M21 Muncie with a Quicktime bellhousing and a Centerforce clutch. As a hotrodder, I felt it my duty to learn how to rebuild a Muncie 4 speed transmission! The oem 3:30 ratio 12 bolt was fine so we left it alone except for rebuilding the rear drum brakes. Now I remember why I always hated drum brakes, but they work fine for this car so they’ll stay. A future upgrade would be pretty easy.

We installed one of our StreetGrip suspension systems to make the Chevelle ride and handle like a new performance car. We upgraded the front brakes to a 4 piston Baer system that will fit under the repro 15x8 Magnum wheels. If I were intending to autocross this car I would have chosen a 17” wheel with BFG Sport Comp tires or the equivalent, but for street cruising the TA Radials are just fine and give us the image we are looking for.
We used a GM Performance LS1 carburetor intake with a Fitech throttle body EFI with an MSD ignition controller. I bought a cheap set of shorty stainless headers and a Dirty Dingo engine mount kit off Ebay. Fit perfect. I used the new ceramic boot MSD wires to eliminate any problems with the headers burning the plug wires. We built a bracket to relocate the coil packs on the firewall near the oem distributor location. I covered all this up with a repro cowl induction air clean and a set of used aluminum Corvette valve covers with ICT adapter plates. With the engine painted orange it really looks like a small block at first glance. A TANKS, Inc fuel tank with an internal pump supplies the fuel. I had a Magnaflow stainless exhaust left over from another project, so we adapted that to the Ebay stainless headers and bolted up to the car. It fit nicely and sounds awesome!

We used an American Autowire Hiway 22 wiring system to rewire the car. I used LED build everywhere to brighten up the car and lessen the load on the electrical system.
The aluminum radiator and Spall electric fans came from PRC. I used a Vintage Air Frontrunner and AC system. A little expensive but I have used dozens of these with perfect results. I had a set of use Cerullo seats from another project that I adapted to the oem sliders. The original SS dash was shot so I installed a new repro dash shell with Dakota Digital VHX gauges. We also installed a small Kicker sound system and an oem looking leather wrapped steering wheel. I used some ebay off brand Dynamat copy sound deadener and ACC carpet on the floors. We installed a Spal power window conversion that interfaces with the oem manual window cranks. I’ve used many of those…works great and they’re $100/pair on Amazon.

We replaced all the interior panels, weatherstripping, emblems, and such with reproduction stuff, mostly from Summit. Certainly not a requirement if you are trying to save money, but I like things nice and this car may be sold to finance his new car or a house at some point. The glass was all good, as were the bumpers and most of the trim. We only replaced what was truly crusty or missing. The console was busted up a bit, but we epoxied it back together and repainted to save about $1000 for a new repro unit.

The paint was 25 years old and scruffy, but the body was rock solid and straight. We touched up a few chips, ignored a couple of pecker dents, and worked down the touchups with progressively finer grits up to 2000 grit paper. We are using Adams Polished products to buff the paint up to its new glossy finish.

With everything done now except for the buffing we have about 500 miles on the car. It starts and runs like a [very fast] rental car. It sounds great and drives like a dream. The handling is sharp, the ride quality is the best of anything I own. The seats are comfy and supportive. The stereo needs a little tuning to sound its best. I had to install a smaller clutch master cylinder to get the pedal feel that I wanted. I would not be unhappy driving this car across the country knowing that nearly anything on it could be found at Autozone or a GM dealership. My son learned a few things about tools and cars [and life��] and I got to remind myself how to build a car! We intentionally did not lean on my industry contacts for special deals on these parts…we bought nearly everything from Summit, Amazon, or Ebay. Summit was usually the least expensive, Amazon was usually the most convenient, and Ebay filled in the gaps.

Andy and I are considering doing a series of videos about this car and our experiences with building and driving it. Maybe we’ll call it “How to build a happy hotrod”.

Here is my top 5 list of areas to look at for any car build, but especially one with a budget:

1. Build the car you really want. Even on a budget, you are going to spend tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on this project. Don’t build a Pinto just because its cheap. If you want a Camaro…find one. And find one in a color you can stand. Paint and bodywork are always the most expensive and hard to change items in any build. Ignore resale value, it prevents decisions made with passion.

2. Decide how you are going to use the car 80% of the time. A street cruiser that you autocross or road race three time per year is a very different build from a dedicated race car.

3. Ergonomics are very important in both a street car and a race car. Pedal position, seat position, sound and heat insulation, AC, cruise control, stereo, comfy steering wheel, power windows…all these things enhance the overall driving experience. You DO want a better driving experience, right? If you don’t, I’ll bet your wife/girlfriend does. Think about how much fun you two will have enjoying this car together…and how much easier it will be to build the next one with her cooperation!

4. Think…REALLY think about the areas of the car that are most important to you. Maybe its horsepower, maybe its ride quality or handling performance. Maybe its paint and bodywork. Prioritize and optimize these areas, and compromise on the areas that are less important to you. Don’t spend years chasing perfection. If you end up a little unhappy with the results of your work in some area, pleadge to de it better on the next project. Chip Foose once told me “ I have yet to build the perfect car”.

5. Don’t be afraid to invest in good tools and equipment to help make your build [and all the others that come after] easier. This is likely not the last car that you will build. Good tools and equipment will last a lifetime and make your life easier. I have always considered the journey at least as important as the destination.

[cypher]

Hey Steve! This is a GREAT idea. I think we'll get people sharing tips to save money, build things right and figure out the priorities. Love it.

I'll start by adding some thoughts ...

1. Figure out BEFORE your build even starts:
a. How you want to use the car
b. What are your goals for the car
c. What are your priorities from a & b
d. Timeline to have the car done & enjoying driving it

With all of the above, be realistic with yous:
A. Hours available & timeline to build
B. Money saved & money you can set aside each month
C. Your skills ... and skills of friends who will help ... that you can do yourself
D. What has to be outsourced
E. What needs to be bought new & what can be bought used

Write up a list of what you want to do ... along with projected cost & hours ... for:
* Base car
* Body & Paint
* Interior
* Suspension
* Rear end & 3rd Member
* Trans & Driveline
* Engine & Accessories
* Exhaust
* Brakes
* Amenities (A/C, stereo, etc)

Ask yourself is this build realistic with my time & budget to get done in 1 year, 2 years, longer?
Then figure out if you need to trim or increase the budget to achieve what you want.

My suggestion ... and this is ONLY my opinion. Do not come up with unrealistic build goals, that take many years to get the car done. Some people enjoy the build MORE than driving the car. I don't think this advice applies to you. But those of you that want to be out there driving, autocrossing and/or tracking your car ... my suggestion is don't make the goal so lofty the project takes forever to get done. I see projects taking 3, 4, 5 even 10 years to build. Shoot ... if I was in your shoes, I'd skip the $20,000 paint job & run that puppy the way the paint is. Or go do a $2,000 body wrap & call it good.

Just my opinion. Best wishes all !


P.S. When I get more time, I'll come back on here & share ways to make your car perform at a high level, without wasting money.


couldnt agree more with this. I have stayed about 75% on track with my original build plan for my car and of those 25% or so changes have been just slight upgrades over the past 10 years of the build but nothing crazy. On the other hand, I have a friend who is working on a truck for a guy now that his entire build is a completely different truck now than when it started so nothing "fits" as it should. The truck started as a 100% nut and bolt resto with a 6cly w3 on the tree, over the coarse of the build, he started adding bigger brakes, bigger tires to compensate, cam, etc to compensate for each that just keep adding to the build and costing him way more. Now the truck looks "funny" as it doesnt really go together anymore as he wants it to be a sport truck.
In short, make an entire plan for what you want and stick to it because its way to easy to upscale the build into a financial disaster.

[79 Camaro]

How about a 1/2 ton truck of some sort? Could be a Chev or Dodge or Ford. Early C10's have gone crazy price wise. Square bodies are more reasonable. Dodge and Fords are typically less money. I'm not sure about the aftermarket support for the Dodge's. Tons of stuff available for the Chevs and Fords.

Seems to me if the goal is a very competitive autocross car it has to be light, short wheel base and somewhat narrow. Camaros, Monte Carlo's, C4 Corvettes and such are kind of big cars for a tight autocross course.

It's a bit out there but how about a 97-2006 Wrangler. I only reason I suggest is that I've have driven a 98 Wrangler with a LS6/4L60E for over ten years. Not set up for autocross just fun daily driver. I thought if you lose the front straight axle and transfer case with some type of independent front suspension. Lower it down. The rear is already a four link design. I swapped in a Explorer 8.8 rear end. They are cheap. Add some wide wheels and tires. Easy to cover them up with wide aftermarket flares. Wranglers have a pretty decent rectangular frame. Wheel base is short. Lose the four wheel drive stuff and the top and doors maybe weighs 3200 lbs? If you don't get too crazy you can still daily drive it at least in the summer. Just a thought.

[rickpaw]

Well said Bret.

[Steve Chryssos]

"I'd like to suggest we not fantasize, but instead list real world ways to get the most performance for our buck building a 60's to 90's muscle car to beat on & have fun with. "

When I think of a muscle car I wouldn't even consider a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo etc. Etc.. they're cool cars no doubt but not a muscle car by definition.

Yup let's see more numbers. I would share mine, but I've been building the car since I was 13, so it has benefitted from some creative amortization. Also since it's so darn old some of the numbers are not applicable. Like, I bought the world's first tubular front subframe. It was $1500. Forged Kinesis wheels? $1100 per corner. I though I was gonna die when I got that bill. Kinesis is out of business.

Anyway, more numbers would be nice to see and a great way to help others.
/Steve

[Ron Sutton]

I have built cars for $15,000 [years ago] and for $500,000 [for a customer]. The $500,000 builds are not as much fun as it would appear…unlimited budgets come with unlimited expectations. They also take so long that there is the constant fear of obsolescence before its done.

My son and I are putting the finishing touches on a 1970 LS5 4 speed SS Chevelle that I picked up as a painted but unfinished project about 2 1/2 years ago. Totally rust free and complete except for the actual engine. $23K delivered from California to Indiana. We are building this car in our home garage instead of running through the normal RideTech shop. I did not have a particular budget in mind, but the goal was to build him a car that was fun, reliable and cool for as little money as possible. I have not yet kept track of the invoices but I have them and will tally and report back here.
I had a used LS3 E-rod engine that still ran nicely so I hooked that up to the original M21 Muncie with a Quicktime bellhousing and a Centerforce clutch. As a hotrodder, I felt it my duty to learn how to rebuild a Muncie 4 speed transmission! The oem 3:30 ratio 12 bolt was fine so we left it alone except for rebuilding the rear drum brakes. Now I remember why I always hated drum brakes, but they work fine for this car so they’ll stay. A future upgrade would be pretty easy.

We installed one of our StreetGrip suspension systems to make the Chevelle ride and handle like a new performance car. We upgraded the front brakes to a 4 piston Baer system that will fit under the repro 15x8 Magnum wheels. If I were intending to autocross this car I would have chosen a 17” wheel with BFG Sport Comp tires or the equivalent, but for street cruising the TA Radials are just fine and give us the image we are looking for.
We used a GM Performance LS1 carburetor intake with a Fitech throttle body EFI with an MSD ignition controller. I bought a cheap set of shorty stainless headers and a Dirty Dingo engine mount kit off Ebay. Fit perfect. I used the new ceramic boot MSD wires to eliminate any problems with the headers burning the plug wires. We built a bracket to relocate the coil packs on the firewall near the oem distributor location. I covered all this up with a repro cowl induction air clean and a set of used aluminum Corvette valve covers with ICT adapter plates. With the engine painted orange it really looks like a small block at first glance. A TANKS, Inc fuel tank with an internal pump supplies the fuel. I had a Magnaflow stainless exhaust left over from another project, so we adapted that to the Ebay stainless headers and bolted up to the car. It fit nicely and sounds awesome!

We used an American Autowire Hiway 22 wiring system to rewire the car. I used LED build everywhere to brighten up the car and lessen the load on the electrical system.
The aluminum radiator and Spall electric fans came from PRC. I used a Vintage Air Frontrunner and AC system. A little expensive but I have used dozens of these with perfect results. I had a set of use Cerullo seats from another project that I adapted to the oem sliders. The original SS dash was shot so I installed a new repro dash shell with Dakota Digital VHX gauges. We also installed a small Kicker sound system and an oem looking leather wrapped steering wheel. I used some ebay off brand Dynamat copy sound deadener and ACC carpet on the floors. We installed a Spal power window conversion that interfaces with the oem manual window cranks. I’ve used many of those…works great and they’re $100/pair on Amazon.

We replaced all the interior panels, weatherstripping, emblems, and such with reproduction stuff, mostly from Summit. Certainly not a requirement if you are trying to save money, but I like things nice and this car may be sold to finance his new car or a house at some point. The glass was all good, as were the bumpers and most of the trim. We only replaced what was truly crusty or missing. The console was busted up a bit, but we epoxied it back together and repainted to save about $1000 for a new repro unit.

The paint was 25 years old and scruffy, but the body was rock solid and straight. We touched up a few chips, ignored a couple of pecker dents, and worked down the touchups with progressively finer grits up to 2000 grit paper. We are using Adams Polished products to buff the paint up to its new glossy finish.

With everything done now except for the buffing we have about 500 miles on the car. It starts and runs like a [very fast] rental car. It sounds great and drives like a dream. The handling is sharp, the ride quality is the best of anything I own. The seats are comfy and supportive. The stereo needs a little tuning to sound its best. I had to install a smaller clutch master cylinder to get the pedal feel that I wanted. I would not be unhappy driving this car across the country knowing that nearly anything on it could be found at Autozone or a GM dealership. My son learned a few things about tools and cars [and life��] and I got to remind myself how to build a car! We intentionally did not lean on my industry contacts for special deals on these parts…we bought nearly everything from Summit, Amazon, or Ebay. Summit was usually the least expensive, Amazon was usually the most convenient, and Ebay filled in the gaps.

Andy and I are considering doing a series of videos about this car and our experiences with building and driving it. Maybe we’ll call it “How to build a happy hotrod”.

Here is my top 5 list of areas to look at for any car build, but especially one with a budget:

1. Build the car you really want. Even on a budget, you are going to spend tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on this project. Don’t build a Pinto just because its cheap. If you want a Camaro…find one. And find one in a color you can stand. Paint and bodywork are always the most expensive and hard to change items in any build. Ignore resale value, it prevents decisions made with passion.

2. Decide how you are going to use the car 80% of the time. A street cruiser that you autocross or road race three time per year is a very different build from a dedicated race car.

3. Ergonomics are very important in both a street car and a race car. Pedal position, seat position, sound and heat insulation, AC, cruise control, stereo, comfy steering wheel, power windows…all these things enhance the overall driving experience. You DO want a better driving experience, right? If you don’t, I’ll bet your wife/girlfriend does. Think about how much fun you two will have enjoying this car together…and how much easier it will be to build the next one with her cooperation!

4. Think…REALLY think about the areas of the car that are most important to you. Maybe its horsepower, maybe its ride quality or handling performance. Maybe its paint and bodywork. Prioritize and optimize these areas, and compromise on the areas that are less important to you. Don’t spend years chasing perfection. If you end up a little unhappy with the results of your work in some area, pleadge to de it better on the next project. Chip Foose once told me “ I have yet to build the perfect car”.

5. Don’t be afraid to invest in good tools and equipment to help make your build [and all the others that come after] easier. This is likely not the last car that you will build. Good tools and equipment will last a lifetime and make your life easier. I have always considered the journey at least as important as the destination.

Love the tips. But I love that you're teaching Andy about how to do this stuff.

See you in Ohio Bret !

[High Plains Mopars]

Buy a nicely restored "insert whatever vintage muscle car here" for $30k. Invest in a Hotchkis sport system or equivilent with some really, really good shocks, $5k. Bigger brake system for $5k. Some nice wheels with 200tw tires for $5k. Some really good, supportive seats and either nice tunes and/or retrofit a/c $5k.

$50k street capable, occasional autocross, fun car that will allow you to spend plenty of time driving instead of wrenching and buying parts. Then, learn to drive the rubber off of it. More and more seat time can increase skill, capability, and speed and rapidly replace every increasingly expensive upgrades.

[CreepinDeth]

$50K is alot of $$$ so it highly depends on what your starting vehicle is, and the cost of said vehicle (If you do the work yourself)
Me personally, I feel it's best to start with a vehicle in decent condition, the motor and trans can be blown don't matter.

Put an LS motor in with a modern transmission, preferably manual. (boneyard Used is alot less $$$$)
I don't care what anyone says, Fuel Injection can't be beaten for dependability and both my cars are LSx now.

Update the front brakes to modern C5 Corvette brakes at the minimum, or better of course.
Rewire the car for under $1000 with American Autowire yourself. (Reliablility starts with 100% knowledge of the car front to rear)

Install a badass suspension system for say....I dunno $2000-$3000
Throw some good modern styled wheels on it, and go cruising.

You can do this easily for alot less then $50,000 unless it's a rare thing like a 70 Charger or something.
Late 2nd gen Camaro's are still inexpensive if you get them in not all put back together yet. Olds Cutlass also.......

[bret]

For those interested...I will have the 70 Chevelle that I referred to above at the Columbus Goodguys event this coming weekend. It will be in the Adams Polish booth...they are going to use it as a demo for paint rehab. I may get it out on Sunday and do a couple autocross laps if anyone is interested in a ride along...
Look for images and video coming up on our Facebook page shortly!

[c4racer2]

Interesting thread. I just joined this site, sorry I'm a bit late to the fray - but I wanted to share my ideas.

I can relate very directly to this thread because I have a 2016 Camaro SS convertible as my weekend toy and looking to get back into a classic - built in pro-touring style.

I don't expect to match the overall combination of power, refinement, comfort, and handling / ride balance that the latest Camaro offers.
Cannot be done for this type of budget. But for me the Camaro is not a daily driver - I have a Colorado truck and also a Porsche Panamera in the garage to cover all my general automotive needs. So I have the bug to get back into a classic - the goal would be to match the handling and braking and exceed the acceleration envelope of the new Camaro, while taking a hit in fit finish, refinement, driveability in favor of a classic looks and fun that comes along with a classic car.

So my approach is looking for a complete running car with good paint and body and complete stock interior, and potentially an engine I can work with for now.
The items I expect to change are suspension, brakes and transmission - since most of these cars have automatics.

I'm looking at a few 2nd gen camaro's 1970-1973 and Chevelles in the 64-65 range. Very well showing cars can be had for $20-25K range.
Then spend another $15-20K on improvements depending. My budget is actually $40K, which is about $10K over what the gen 6 Camaro SS is worth - I will be selling it to fund this build.

My two lead cars as an example of the budget both adding up to aprox $40K
65 Chevelle with 454 and full hotchkis suspension
brakes / steering - $5K
5-speed swap - $5K
Wheels - $2K
engine mods - $5K

71 Camaro with 500hp 406
DSI stage 3 front suspension - $4K
DSI quadra link rear - $3K
steering / brakes - $5K
TKO 5spd - $5K
motor tweaks - $1K

Style wise I'm leaning towards the Chevelle - always wanted one, and I've had lots of Camaros. Plus would be fun to own a BBC car for a change of pace.
Performance wise the Camaro would handle better - I think the full DSI suspension set-up would be better than the hotchkis A body suspension, but the Chevelle would ride nicer most likely and could be a more street friendly car.

Use case is just street driving. But it may show up at an autox someday. I used to be hard core into autox and then road racing, but I have other hobbies and weekend activities that dominate my time these days.

None of the fully built cars I have found are done the way I would want them - also most are above my $40K budget anyway.
Building from ground up with paint and body and full interior are also going to blow up the budget.
Seems to me this is the best path - take a good solid running and good looking classic old school hot rod and update the suspension, brakes, trans to make it a modern pro-touring car. Sure - won't have a LS EFI engine, but well built and tuned carbed motors run just fine. I've owned several in additional several hot rodded EFI cars too. In many ways the carb set-up is a lot easier to troubleshoot when things go wrong too.