What does it cost to have a car built at high end pro touring shop?

[AAQUINO11]

Just wondering what everyones thoughts and experiences were to have a car completely restored and modified at a high end pro touring shop like Detroit Speed, Roadster Shop, etc.

Anyone have any experience?

[Build-It-Break-It]

$300k

[raustinss]

yep was going to say 250 US and up

[USAZR1]

Guess I better start playing the lottery.

[Bad Bowtie]

My advice, find someone selling a quality built car because you will usually spend way more money than what you could ever get back out of it if you were to ever sell it.
Just my.02

BB

[sheck44]

I've heard rumours that starting prices are $300k for a basic build and then sky is the limit
Cheers
Steve

[Steve Chryssos]

a little more overtime...:razz:
/Steve

[nokones]

You will need to cash in A LOT of pop bottles, if there are that many pop bottles still left in the world.

[killer69]

I tell customers they start at 150 ish and then it is up to you and all the options you want to add from there. Since we build the suspension and chassis i think we can do them quicker than most. it all depends on how fancy you want it. how custom. how nice things like custom center console can be 5000-7000 buy the time the car is done maybe more. metal work?? OMG. after doing this for 15 years there is a ratio. it is about 1.20 in labor for every 1.00 in parts. it jsut seems to work out that way. so if you want the 25,000 ls what ever figure it into the build it will be 30,000 in labor. I know it doesn't cost 30,000 to install an engine but with all the other stuff. look at a Holley Dominator ECU they are what 4000.00 ish it will cost more that 4800.00 to install that part, so it all balances out in the end.

[minendrews68]

How much does it cost... ALOT! I've done a great deal of my build myself and I can't believe how much I've spent and still not done. And what's worth I've already started redoing things..

[76TA]

Well,

I started with a numbers matching 32,000 mile 400 4-Speed 76 Trans Am. I stripped it down to a rolling chassis, gutted everything. Had the thing completely media blasted. Rear mini tubs, Detroit Speed front Sub frame, sub frame connectors, a Strange 9 inch with rear ladder bars installed with an 8 point cage with a new trans tunnel for a T56

I'm roughly $22,000 in to it and still years away from even buying brakes and wheels to get the thing on the ground. I'd guess I might be able to wrap the whole thing up for a total of 85k? Maybe?

[cornfedbill]

Does anybody have a good method for convincing one's wife to sell the house to finance a car? Asking for a friend.

[Schwartz Performance]

I agree with Blake's philosophy.
Usually ends up 1/2 parts 1/2 labor. Get the parts cost figured out & double it.
Also depends on the car's original condition. We have 2 cars here now that were "ready for paint" that we had to redo the bodywork on.

We have 1 car just started on that looked like a decent restoration & the lower cowl behind the fender is rusted out. The build cost just went up!

-Dale

[Steve Chryssos]

Does anybody have a good method for convincing one's wife to sell the house to finance a car? Asking for a friend.

One of life's most valuable lessons..... Tell her that it is a gift for her, but engrave your name somewhere prominent.
Here's a How-To video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03N2uIoXptU

[Alponcho]

It's easy for me to see why high end turn-key builds start at $150k. I'll have 80k in parts and materials in my 70 Formula by the time I'm finished, and if I were paying someone to do the whole thing, labor would easily be another 70k. I'm not doing anything very fancy either, so I can only imagine how things begin to add up once one gets into the realm of modifying body panels, etc.

[XLexusTech]

About 2.5 more then it takes to buy a car someone else paid to have done. ��. For example I know a camaro which has been featured on a few pro touring mags and sites ... cost 250k to build and went for just over 100 at auction...

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I have about $45k in my 'Cuda plus the cost of the car with $0 for my personal labor. Easy 6-figure if I tried to account for any of my labor. A shop would easily double or triple the investment.

[slimjim]

short answer is..A lot more than most people think, and you've got some good explanations here on why.
You asked specifically about Detroit speed and roadstershop, and I can tell you its even more... a lot of the current builds we're seeing from then are banking well past half a million, Mo's 2 cars by DSE were both supposedly 600k EACH and roadstershop take it to another level again, I'd love to know the final price of 'inferno' because the prices I've heard are impressive.

[alocker]

I'm lucky to live close to The Roadster Shop ( or unlucky because I want stuff I'll never be able to afford). I have seen a bunch of the finished cars in person and the quality/style/innovation is unbelievable. They have levels of build too but here is an example of where big $$$$ can be thrown around.

http://roadstershop.com/galleries/1971gto/

To re-create that front end in metal has to take forever. It would be the most expensive fender bender in history God forbid you ever rear ended someone driving that car. But it's cool and no one else has one.

I heard a rumor the black 71 charger was $800k. Not sure if it's true but I believe it.

[nokones]

Be aware that some shops will low-ball the estimate just to get you in the front door. Lets say they give you a figure of, lets say just for this discussion, an $80K figure for a stated amount of work. Be ready to pay more and don't be surprised that when that shop tells you that you already spent the $80K and the build is only a 1/3 done, what are you going to do? Just stopped, probably not, that would be a waste of money, and that shop will know that. You were had when you first walked through the door.

Check with others and see what their experiences were with a particular shop. People like DSE, JCG Restoration & Customs, and the other high end builders are usually more up front with you.

[pittpens24]

Yeah I would have to say 250k easily at a typical restoration shop - once you get into Detroit Speed, Roadstershop or into the builders Kindig or Foose - you are in for a good 400K plus. I did all the work on my car right hanging all the sheet metal and gapping and then sent it off to the restoration shop for body and paint initially - left them to do the reassembly too since I was afraid to touch it afterwards. I am in for over 125K without an interior. I have a modest build but not even close to what I would call a high end with all the best of the best money no concern. One of the guys I met at the restoration shop where my car was had a Cuda built down in Florida somewhere using a Viper as a starting point. He turned the key for $375k

[77thor]

If you have to ask... You can't afford it.

[joeko23]

I think you can build a high end car for under 100k if and only if you do a majority of the mock up and assembly yourself. You must start with a rust free body with preferably mini tubs and maybe some other custom touches like shaved drip rails, tucked in bumpers and gapped tight (I say only body because you will gut it and throw all the old crap out anyway). Then get yourself a preferred subframe, rear suspension and an LSA or LT4 with tr6060 or 4L80. Mock that all up and send to body shop for paint. Decent paint job $15k, custom or TMI interior $10-15k. All in around 100k that a shop would charge your prolly 200k plus and you can say you built it yourself! Which I think is what this hobby is really all about.

Most will say 100k is way too much but when you think about it, what can you buy for 100k that you can use as a dolly driver and take to the track and have fun that also will NEVER depreciate in value? Yes muscle cars and pro touring cars recently took a dive in resale values but I think a car as mentioned will bring around 100k all day long. Yes you didn’t make anything on the build but you also didn’t loose anything and you had fun building the car, driving the car, and taking to the track

Think about it what can you buy around 100k with the performance that these cars produce? ZL1 or Vette? In 1 year that will drop in value at least 20k. Same with Euro cars like bmw and Mercedes all depreciate. And if you get into exotics they depreciate even more and god forbid something breaks.

[sheck44]

Joe, I agree ... this is a realistic # if you do 99% of the work yourself and I also agree on your price and resale comparison at the $100k point. Vegas69 has done this a few times already. I try to do as much of the work I can as I treat this as a hobby and LOVE creating and building cars in my vision, but some things are obviously outside of my knowledge base and comfort zone.

One thing to remember is that yes you will get good resale value on cars that are of the desirable era ... 1st gens, early vettes, 67 Fast backs etc., others no matter what you put into them you'll hit a lower max value

Just my 2 cents ...
Cheers
Steve

[fishface]

I have around 60k in mine so far. Started with a solid car for 25k. I have a new ls3, RPM trans, new S60 rear, Wilwoods all around, Billet Specialties wheels, new TMI interior, Dakota Digital guages. My guess is all total 80k after paint. You can certainly build a damn nice car with quality parts for less than 100k and as others pointed out have the satisfaction of knowing you built it yourself. Personally I wouldn't trade what I experienced building this car and what I learned for anything. It has been one of my life's greatest achievements.

[SD67]

If you are jonesn' for a 300k car and don't want to build it yourself, just buy one. There are plenty of these high dollar builds that get sold each year at auction for about half of what it cost to build them. Now this assumes you are not all that particular on make, model and the personalized details. Most of us don't do this to turn a profit and when the cost is spread out over several years, the wife is apt to tolerate it.

[TheJDMan]

How much does it cost... ALOT! I've done a great deal of my build myself and I can't believe how much I've spent and still not done. And what's worth I've already started redoing things..

It never ends does it Carl. I'm the same way when it comes to changing things. I have been the only person to turn a bolt on my car in the past 45 years so all the good things,and bad, I'm the only one responsible. Since about 2010 I have found myself going back and fixing stupid stuff I cobbled up when I was in my 20s. Because I have owned my car since 73 I don't figure in the cost of the car in my current tally which is approaching 80k. The car is 100% operational now but I still have some items on my wish list for things I want to do which are primarily AC, paint and interior. AC not so much but the paint and interior will likely put me over the 100K level no doubt.

[raustinss]

We're forgetting it also depends on what the car is. Making a 69 Camaro into a pro touring machine is way cheaper then turning a 73 Buick into one. You can save huge money doing things yourself but, can also save huge by using a common car with off the shelf parts VS all custom one made stuff

[Build-It-Break-It]

Check out the link below and video.
$800k build. Yeah yeah gas monkey link but it has the Roadster Shop build cost and some details.

https://www.gasmonkeygarage.com/800000-custom-chevy-nova-truly-the-innovator/


https://youtu.be/ibTPe7NDxGw

[GoodysGotaCuda]

We're forgetting it also depends on what the car is. Making a 69 Camaro into a pro touring machine is way cheaper then turning a 73 Buick into one. You can save huge money doing things yourself but, can also save huge by using a common car with off the shelf parts VS all custom one made stuff

Mopars can be a totally different order of magnitude as well...

[rustomatic]

Wow. Did somebody actually pay $800k for a car with a stick axle, a pushrod V8, and the metal version of tacky ground effects from the late '80s? Someone needs to take a break from "innovating" for a while . . .

This is like some grotesquely exponential version of gentrification applied to hotrodding. Someone needs to step back and focus on this concept: why? Oh, wait, no. It's because someone was willing to pay (to have the only one like it, not unlike some versions of HPV), so it's great!

This comment will undoubtedly be removed . . .

[raustinss]

Don't think there's anything wrong with what you've said , just everyone has their opinion . I also don't like that car but, I do wonder because that car did also win a pile of awards . So the taste might be not to our liking but , the build quality is off the charts , let alone the innovative aspects.

[Zachalanche]

After doing all my own work, I wouldn't build a car for someone for any less than 100k worth of profit. But if I had to pay that much for a turn key car, I would just buy something new that I could actually drive and find replacement parts for. does the guy in the $800k nova look any less ridiculous than a dude in a Lamborghini? As far as turning heads goes, my 67 Fairlane gets more attention than I would like it to, and that car was built for less than 5k.

It seems to me like Pro-touring cars are getting more and more over the top lately. And maybe that's driven by the amount of performance that comes in an average car these days. Not long ago you could build a better car than the manufacturers, now I'm not so sure. I bet it takes $50k to restore and modify an old muscle car to a level of performance that could turn a faster lap time than a v6 mustang....I hope I get mine finished before the average sedan can out run it.

Lastly, I find my tastes shifting back toward a more vintage look. I like the look of 15in steel rims and chrome bumpers. I don't think that 60's & 70's muscle cars should look like they came out of a transformers movie.

So, there's the rambling opinion of someone who has no idea what a shop should charge to build a car.
Cheers.

[Build-It-Break-It]

The 800k Nova is for sure an acquired taste that isn't mine either but like Ryan said you can't knock the talent it took. Roadster Shop is an extremely skilled place.

Zach I feel your pain. I think we'll never get up to the driving performance level of even a new sedan unless you have a deep pocket. Sad to say but true. Every time I put the latest and greatest on my car something new that's better comes out or the old part gets updated somehow.

[USAZR1]

It seems to me like Pro-touring cars are getting more and more over the top lately. And maybe that's driven by the amount of performance that comes in an average car these days. Not long ago you could build a better car than the manufacturers, now I'm not so sure. I bet it takes $50k to restore and modify an old muscle car to a level of performance that could turn a faster lap time than a v6 mustang....I hope I get mine finished before the average sedan can out run it.

Lastly, I find my tastes shifting back toward a more vintage look. I like the look of 15in steel rims and chrome bumpers. I don't think that 60's & 70's muscle cars should look like they came out of a transformers movie.


I tend to agree with you, Zach. Some people are biting off more than they can chew when building their cars, trying to keep up with the Joneses out there. It's great that all these manufacturers are building such awesome parts but the cost to play is equally awesome. Just glad that some can afford the tab.

15" wheels and tires? Nahh, I doubt I will ever own another car, with those.

[Zachalanche]

The 800k Nova is for sure an acquired taste that isn't mine either but like Ryan said you can't knock the talent it took. Roadster Shop is an extremely skilled place.

Zach I feel your pain. I think we'll never get up to the driving performance level of even a new sedan unless you have a deep pocket. Sad to say but true. Every time I put the latest and greatest on my car something new that's better comes out or the old part gets updated somehow.

its also hard to build fast enough to keep up with it all (at least for me). My New engine and efi system that's the "Latest and Greatest" is now 7 years old. and the only drive time its seen is 1 quick lap round the neighborhood. By the time this car is finished, it will be about as cutting edge as a cassette player.

[Protour_Pinto]

It cost all of it and then some.

[parsonsj]

It seems to me like Pro-touring cars are getting more and more over the top lately. If by lately, you mean for the past 40 years, than yes, I'm with you. :)

"You kids get off my lawn!" :cheers:

[USAZR1]

its also hard to build fast enough to keep up with it all (at least for me). My New engine and efi system that's the "Latest and Greatest" is now 7 years old. and the only drive time its seen is 1 quick lap round the neighborhood. By the time this car is finished, it will be about as cutting edge as a cassette player.

We just need to "Go Be Poor Somewhere Else" lol

[76TA]

If you're building these cars to sell down the road don't build them at all. You won't ever use them for what they were built for and you'll never get your money back.

Go buy some watches or custom pool cues instead.

[Kenova]

By the time this car is finished, it will be about as cutting edge as a cassette player.

Whats a cassette player?:poke:
What little I have done with my Nova I have done myself. It puts a grin on my face when I drive it so I figure it's worth a million bucks. And I'm just getting started.
When it comes to the big dollar pro built cars I am in awe of the quality and creativity, so hats off to those who are willing to pay for and share them with us mere mortals.

Ken

[cypher]

Just wondering what everyones thoughts and experiences were to have a car completely restored and modified at a high end pro touring shop like Detroit Speed, Roadster Shop, etc.

Anyone have any experience?

There are many lesser named shops across the US that can do just as high quality work for way less than the 250-300k folks are saying, but since you said "shops like" then yes they do cost a lot.

[Schwartz Performance]

There are many lesser named shops across the US that can do just as high quality work for way less than the 250-300k folks are saying, but since you said "shops like" then yes they do cost a lot.

"Just as high quality" - You mean they can take a 4000 hour build and turn it into 2000? Or do they do 4000-hour builds for 1/2 of the labor cost since they do it in their home barn & don't carry insurance for the contents or pay a lot of taxes?

The word "quality" is relative, as your definition and my definition are different. :)

-Dale

[dhutton]

Back when I was an engineer I heard many definitions of quality but generally they revolved around high levels of customer satisfaction rather than price paid. I am sure that many builds from both high end shops and backyard barns meet that definition of quality. Are they the same level, no probably not but quality nonetheless....

There is a difference between high quality and high end....

Don

[SDS MACHINING]

if you have to ask,, well you know the rest of the line. Get everything in writing and solid progress dates with a target delivery date, as well as a "do not succeed amount" agreement.. save yourself a lot of potential problems and headaches by doing this up front. i have seen way too many people end up running out of money, and even more people get taken advantage of. One suggestion is to buy something at an auction, or private seller.. by no means was i implying Detroit speed would do you wrong or any of the major builders out there with impeccable reputations, but expect to spend a few hundred thousand and that is being conservative , it all depends on what you want and how fast you want it.
also be VERY selective in who you go with,some shops "claim" they have their own products and do just as good as the top guys, many scam shops with zero integrity and deny accountability once its left their shop. seen it first hand a few timed
my 2cents for the topic

[SDS MACHINING]

truth spoken.. I have watched 300k builds sell for under 100k at auctions.

[Steve Chryssos]

There's a ton of negativity in this thread. It's kinda sad. First off, get out more. Don't judge pro-touring based on message board threads or magazines. You CAN build a pro-touring car with exceptional performance for virtually ANY price. Cars and trucks from the 70's-90's are still cheap and in favor. Patina and rust are likewise in favor. At the very least you can build your car now, paint it later and it'll be cool both ways. Factories are squirting high performance engines off of their assembly lines every 30 seconds. ..and the performance of bolt-on parts has improved dramatically over the last decade. Go to a Goodguys Autocross and you will see bolt-together cars running the same times as full custom builds. The margin of error is small enough that the driver makes the difference.

Shops like Roadster Shop and Ringbrothers are using rapid prototyping to make parts. That's wild. It puts them in a different "Price Bracket" conversation altogether. It's not fair to lump them in with the shops that will build you a high quality high performance pro-touring car. Rather than high end, a different question is:

How much does it cost to have a shop build a high quality, fully sorted pro-touring car?

[raustinss]

There's a ton of negativity in this thread. It's kinda sad. First off, get out more. Don't judge pro-touring based on message board threads or magazines. You CAN build a pro-touring car with exceptional performance for virtually ANY price. Cars and trucks from the 70's-90's are still cheap and in favor. Patina and rust are likewise in favor. At the very least you can build your car now, paint it later and it'll be cool both ways. Factories are squirting high performance engines off of their assembly lines every 30 seconds. ..and the performance of bolt-on parts has improved dramatically over the last decade. Go to a Goodguys Autocross and you will see bolt-together cars running the same times as full custom builds. The margin of error is small enough that the driver makes the difference.

Shops like Roadster Shop and Ringbrothers are using rapid prototyping to make parts. That's wild. It puts them in a different "Price Bracket" conversation altogether. It's not fair to lump them in with the shops that will build you a high quality high performance pro-touring car. Rather than high end, a different question is:

How much does it cost to have a shop build a high quality, fully sorted pro-touring car?

Steve , the OP asked what it costs for a build at a top tier shop , I don't see any negativity, I see honesty.

[Steve Chryssos]

Ryan,
I'm not being critical. Just suggesting that There's top tier and then there's above top tier. Places like Roadster Shop who can literally grow parts using rapid prototyping. There are many exceptional shops that can build great cars for $100-$200K that get overshadowed by the $500K to $800K builds.
Steve

[raustinss]

Ryan,
I'm not being critical. Just suggesting that There's top tier and then there's above top tier. Places like Roadster Shop who can literally grow parts using rapid prototyping. There are many exceptional shops that can build great cars for $100-$200K that get overshadowed by the $500K to $800K builds.
Steve


Steve
yeah for sure youre completely correct , I was just trying to say that the OP mentions Detroit speed and Roadster shop , both of which I'id be willing to bet you don't get in the door for less than the before mentioned price of 250-300 ish and up from there , not to mention probably 6-9 month wait to even start the job and the 12-18 month build time . There are crazy talented people at shops who most definitely build a amazing car in a much lower price bracket . As for my answers I was trying to respond reg. The shops mentioned or shops on a similar level as to those mentioned
cheers

[sheck44]

Agree with all the above BUT .... the BIGGEST problem we see around here are shops that OVERpromise, UNDERdeliver and OVERcharge
People come to me constantly to ask for advice on where to take their car for paint, where to get an engine, where to get an interior and my reply now is TRUST NO ONE
(except Harold at New Image interiors but be prepared to wait) There is not one shop here in the biggest city in Canada that I can honestly say is reputable. More than once I've sent guys to shops that I thought were honest and did good work and they eventually screwed the guys over ... I am totally amazed and disappointed by whats going on here in this industry. I see cars and talk to guys that have been completely screwed over that have dumped more than a $100k into the car that is barely worth $50k because of the ***** work ... I know of one guy that has taken his car to 3 different shops only to get screwed by all of them. One of the jack asses here (big shop) eventually got charged by the police for fraud ... Its an absolute ***** show here

Ya, good TOP shops (in USA) are expensive as hell but you'll know EXACTLY what your getting,

Sorry for the rant but I had to get this one of my chest
Cheers
Steve

[raustinss]

Steve, funny enough I know that one shop lol ... I also believe I know about another .. with a certain black chevelle that was at the first shop

[raustinss]

Duplicate

[icemanrd19]

I have around 70k in my car that I bet if someone built and didn’t help would have closer to 100k to 110k . Ls, mini tubbed, Forgeline, big brakes etc. I’m sure 99% of the people out there would love to have it. Key is to not change your mind in the build process. Is it a dse/ ringbrothers quality build? Heck no then again it’s a 3rd or 4th of the cost for them to build it.

Good driver with ls you are looking 50k
Nice driver with ls and some wow that’s nice you are closer to 60k
70k and above you are looking at 95% tier people would really like
I’ve seen cars and knownof cars that have 50 to 70k more into it that are not near as nice as some 70k cars.

[cypher]

"Just as high quality" - You mean they can take a 4000 hour build and turn it into 2000? Or do they do 4000-hour builds for 1/2 of the labor cost since they do it in their home barn & don't carry insurance for the contents or pay a lot of taxes?

The word "quality" is relative, as your definition and my definition are different. :)

-Dale

as you said, quality can be relative, but high quality doesnt have to be higher priced. Go build a car on the west coast at some big named shop, then go build the same car in many other places across the US by many other shops and you can see wide range of dollar per hour rates, multiply that times 4000 hours and you then get wildly different prices for the same thing.

[raustinss]

I see your point but, remember DSE, Rad rides by Troy , Ring brothers and I believe a few others aren't on the left coast

[79 Camaro]

I will never have the money to buy a high end build car. I like building my own stuff. It's not to the level of the DSE or Roadster Shop builds. I just don't have the skills or the tools to do it. I used to work for a company that manufactured packaging machines and was very familiar with how they were priced. Most started at $400K and went up from there. Almost every one was custom. We used to joke that an identical machine meant it was the same color as the last one. Things that really do affect price is how custom is the build. Using standard parts reduces the costs and assembly time. It's the custom fab and assembly time and changes in mid-build that drives crazy prices. A car that has a lot of personal touches can be very hard to sell at anything close to the build cost. Those personal touches can make the car very hard to sell. Years ago we used to use the phrase "1/3, 1/3, 1/3" for machine costs. One third for labor, one third for material and one third for profit. I don't know if that holds true in the car building world. It is kind of fun to bench race what a person would build if money was no object.

[USAZR1]

I'm into my car for less than $30K, right now. For what I realistically want from it, another $10-15K will probably get me where I want to be. I can live with that.
However, if I came into an obscene amount of money, I would be calling the top shops.

[CreepinDeth]

Just wondering what everyones thoughts and experiences were to have a car completely restored and modified at a high end pro touring shop like Detroit Speed, Roadster Shop, etc.

Anyone have any experience?

If you are a wealthy person with tons of F U money, you can go for it.......

However, for me I wasn't going to pay someone extortionate $$$ to build me any car(s)
.....I built 2 of my own. The costs are just absolutely insane. Hell I won't pay contractors
to do anything in my house either. I figure it out on my own.

You just learn by asking questions, watching video's, watching others progress , asking ?'s
Body work & paint, are the only 2 areas I will pay for......I just don't have the patience.

My journey started in 2002 after I joined a forum in 2001......learned alot and still learning.
People are creative and resourceful , it's a good thing to have forums with so much experience.

[TheJDMan]

The big names listed above all have reputations to maintain and none of them can afford to screw customers if they want to stay in business. The problem then becomes finding a quality shop that charges a reasonable shop rate and can be trusted to do the work agreed on. To this end I think we as a group need to complement shops that do good work and can be trusted, as well as naming shops that have screwed customers and should be avoided. I am reminded of Prodigy Customs and how respected they were and how some people seemed to look the other way when Frank started stealing customer's money until it could not be ignored any longer. I don't even know how many people Frank screwed by the time that whole disaster was over who didn't have any warning till it was too late.

All that said, the only person who you can ever really trust to do a job the way you want it done, is yourself. Learn to weld, learn to fabricate, learn the necessary procedures to accomplish what you want done. In the end the project will be uniquely yours.

[camaro jeff]

Find a nice build on E-Bay or Craig’s spend $50 to $60 to get it then spend whatever u want to make it yours and u can maybe do that aliitle at a time as $ is available n still enjoy it
Jeff