Someone needs to enlighten those tools at HOTROD what PT is

[yody]

Not sure if it is me, but in the last 2 issues of HOTROD magazine, i have seen about 3 mentions(by editors) of protouring. Every time it is in some obviously flawed statment. Like describing a car and mentioning that it has the "pro-touring 18/20 wheels and airbags" or that a car hasn't been infected by all of that "protouring bling" ?????? There are even worse statments but I am too lazy to look for them, but I have seen them. Whats with those guys?? I guess they must be a little jealous?

[bnickel]

i think they can pretty much say what they want about PT, since the guys at Hot Rod invented the term, while PHR coined the G-Machine moniker.

[yody]

not 100% sure but I don't think those guys are still at Hotrod.

[68protouring454]

since your someone why not call them your self!!

you really are
MY HERO
:lol:

[TonyL]

actually it was Jeff smith at Chevy High performance who "coined" the term pro-touring.

[yody]

since your someone why not call them your self!!

you really are
MY HERO
:lol:
sorry, but that was not really funny, I hope you didn't put much thought into that. I guess you can't copy good humor? :enguard:

[MrQuick]

i thought it ws funny... your just thick skinned now that your a biker boy.

[yody]

and your thicked skinned from hanging out with zbugger!

[68protouring454]

well i guess since your the authority on funny or not
KUDOS TO YOU FOR BEING MY HERO AGAIN!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

i think they can pretty much say what they want about PT, since the guys at Hot Rod invented the term, while PHR coined the G-Machine moniker.

Hot Rod didn't coin the term.. and I asked why they came up with "g-machine" I was told Pro-Touring sounded like you had to put a LOT of money into the car and encompassed a lot of aspects (comfort, etc).. g-Machine is just making the car perform better. But they are interchangable..

---

Wait till you read the Mail Bag for the April issue.. it talks about how some mags slap down PT as a fad one month then jump on the bandwagon the next.. sorta funny.

[Larry Callahan]

Wait till you read the Mail Bag for the April issue.. it talks about how some mags slap down PT as a fad one month then jump on the bandwagon the next.. sorta funny.

Oh yeah! I pick up on that all the time. Can't wait!

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

I'm pretty sure Mark Stielow coined the term "pro-touring" in an effort to describe the vehicles he was building in the articles he wrote for phr. That may also explain why Tony feels it came from Jeff Smith.

[trapin]

There are probably some at Hot Rod who still can't get it into their cement-filled craniums that Pro-Touring is not a fad and is indeed here to stay. They're "old school" writers and someone needs to tell them to either shape up and get with it or find another job. But not everyone there feels that way. I am starting to see some g-machines make their way into the magazine. You have to understand...Hot Rod has always been about "straight line" performance and drag racing. They're very set in their ways over there and it'll take some time to broom out the old guard and get new blood in there.

[TonyL]

I'm pretty sure Mark Stielow coined the term "pro-touring" in an effort to describe the vehicles he was building in the articles he wrote for phr. That may also explain why Tony feels it came from Jeff Smith.

actually they came up with the term together. Pretty sure it was in CHP though not PHR.

Someone help me out here.

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

could be, I kind of group em together.

[jeffandre]

There are probably some at Hot Rod who still can't get it into their cement-filled craniums that Pro-Touring is not a fad and is indeed here to stay. They're "old school" writers and someone needs to tell them to either shape up and get with it or find another job. But not everyone there feels that way. I am starting to see some g-machines make their way into the magazine. You have to understand...Hot Rod has always been about "straight line" performance and drag racing. They're very set in their ways over there and it'll take some time to broom out the old guard and get new blood in there.

Well, maybe it's not up to me, as I will not be doing the 1/4 mile in my car, but those of you that are building incredibly fast cars that can dip into the low-11's or high-10's down the 1320 will have the best argument for pro-touring when dealing with the old guard in debates. When the mags are carrying our types of cars, capable of great 1/4 mile times, excellent handling and braking, and drivability, the old guard will eventually break down somewhat and/or be replaced.

Some of the old guard used to go crazy over street cars capable of the 1/4 mile times that some of us are getting in non-pro-street cars, so they may just be too close-minded to enjoy all of the fruits of the car crafting hobby. Keep the faith, it will all work out in the end.

[Steve1968LS2]

actually they came up with the term together. Pretty sure it was in CHP though not PHR.

Someone help me out here.

It was NOT PHR.. I think it was CHP... either way it was NOT Hot Rod.. lol

[Damn True]

It was Jeff Smith when he was at CHP. He is/was at Hot Rod until recently.

[Bill Howell]

Well, maybe it's not up to me, as I will not be doing the 1/4 mile in my car, but those of you that are building incredibly fast cars that can dip into the low-11's or high-10's down the 1320 will have the best argument for pro-touring when dealing with the old guard in debates. When the mags are carrying our types of cars, capable of great 1/4 mile times, excellent handling and braking, and drivability, the old guard will eventually break down somewhat and/or be replaced.


I just wonder if even those times will be enough to convince the hardheads that there is more to life than 1/4 mile times?

[Ralph LoGrasso]

...exactly why I don't subscribe to Hot Rod.

[TRILOGYZ28]

...exactly why I don't subscribe to Hot Rod.

well put ralph !
my exact thought also!!!

[Matt]

One of my buddies who is a life long drag racer (done low 6 sec passes in a gas rail) talked about picking up a 1st gen camaro and doing 'california style' and what info to pick up... So Tony, looks like you sold another book :D

[Jim Nilsen]

You won't find people dancing down at the Kingdom Hall and you won't find us at Hotrod !!! They have to keep up the faith and not lose face for all of those that need a place to feel welcome even if there are only a limited number of places in heaven and Hotrod, why would they quit believing in something that you have to be so closed minded to believe.

Jim Nilsen

[Orngcrush69]

"Pro-touring" is definetly not "low budget", which is fine and what we have learned from this website and others like it we're definetly getting some attention at the track when we are handling just as well as the so called "road race" cars! My hat is off to everone here for there input I owe a lot to you!

[Steve1968LS2]

"Pro-touring" is definetly not "low budget", which is fine and what we have learned from this website and others like it we're definetly getting some attention at the track when we are handling just as well as the so called "road race" cars! My hat is off to everone here for there input I owe a lot to you!

Your Chevelle REALLY needs to be in a magazine.. :)

[Damn True]

Ditto. The GT350 guys at Buttonwillow were blown away by that thing.


(especially during it's "agricultural expeditions")

[LowBuckX]

"Pro-touring" is definetly not "low budget", which is fine and what we have learned from this website and others like it we're definetly getting some attention at the track when we are handling just as well as the so called "road race" cars! My hat is off to everone here for there input I owe a lot to you!

Please speak for your self.

[vanzuuk1]

Ditto. From the guy with 200 dollars invested in rims.

[Steve1968LS2]

Please speak for your self.

Pro-Touring CAN be low budget :)

Actually, that is one reason Johnny gave for likeing the term g-Machine.. PRO-Touring sort of implies a lot of money spend.. g-Machine is just a go-fast concept..

Either way, it's not terribly difficult to build a PT car for less than $20k with a lot of hard work and I have seen pretty cool cars for around $10k..

[vanzuuk1]

I just posted this car elsewhere but for 6500 it leaves a lot left in the budget to build an offbeat protour or restomod. You could lose the shackles and the rims and the car would be on its way. Plenty of fun on the cheap.My camaro was setup just like this when I found it.

[Jim Nilsen]

The key to doing a low budget P/T car is stretching it out over a number of years. I will have around 23k in mine when it gets on the road and if you divide that by years of working on it I have less than 2k per year into it and most anybody can spend $166 a month on a car if they want to bad enough. It is all of the work that makes it worth what it is today. If I had $1 for every hour I have worked on or thought about my car it could be worth over 100k easily or more since it would only be about 700 hrs a year. So it all depends how you look at low budget as a term.
Do it all in one year and you will have one expensive car and need to be rather wealthy to get one since more than a few people will have to help do it and that is where the real money comes into play.
Looking at a lot of cars here that are taking 5 times longer to build than we all thought we could do them in shows that most of us really do have low budget cars in the long run.
When many of us get our cars done in the next year or 2 there will be a revelation among a lot of people out here that P/T is just beginning to be really big in years to come.

Jim Nilsen

[Orngcrush69]

Steve,
Still waiting to hear back from you on a shoot date.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

My camaro was setup just like this when I found it.


C'mon Dirk, post some before pics!

[vanzuuk1]

Ralph , I really dont have any of the car when I bought it but this shows the old wheels. Shudder.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

It doesn't look bad with those wheels, really. Gotta love the 80s. I'm digging the black rims much better, though. The car I was looking to buy before I bought my '68 was a '69, semi-prostreet with those same wheels. Weld Racing was the s*** way back when.

[vanzuuk1]

Ralph , they were so light when I put the rally wheels on I thought my brakes were shot , what a difference.

[shmoov69]

I just posted this car elsewhere but for 6500 it leaves a lot left in the budget to build an offbeat protour or restomod. You could get lose the shackles and the rims and the car would be on its way. Plenty of fun on the cheap.My camaro was setup just like this when I found it.


Why would you want to loose those shackles and dubs off that thing?!?! :headbang:

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Still waiting to hear back from you on a shoot date.

I will talk with Johnny.. sucks that the first one got jacked up ..

:)

[Nine Ball]

It doesn't look bad with those wheels, really. Gotta love the 80s. I'm digging the black rims much better, though. The car I was looking to buy before I bought my '68 was a '69, semi-prostreet with those same wheels. Weld Racing was the s*** way back when.

Ralph, you need to visit a drag strip sometime. Weld wheels have NEVER been out of style. They are still the most popular wheels for drag racers even today.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Ralph, you need to visit a drag strip sometime. Weld wheels have NEVER been out of style. They are still the most popular wheels for drag racers even today.


Very true, I guess I should rephrase my statement. I was talking more along the lines of street cars, and muscle cars. I still see those wheels on tons of drag cars and pro-streeters, but most street cars run TTIIs these days it seems. I'll take bogarts over the welds anyday, for my drag car :).

[CraigMorrison]

actually it was Jeff smith at Chevy High performance who "coined" the term pro-touring.



Actually, it's a Native American term. Occasionally, indian tribes would saddle train Buffalo and ride them across the planes. Amazed at their cornering ability, acceleration and braking, they called them "Proata Tatanka" meaning literally "Buffalo that can handle better than a horse"

Then the term was forgotten about. We can thank the Amish for uncovering it when they started customizing their wagon's to perform better. So much so that they could outperform a horse w/o a wagon. I believe it was Hezekiah Johanson out of Berks County, PA that first used the term in regards to a horse and cart......Of course he used it incorrectly when he swapped on the 40" wagon wheels and the goat skin air-bags to replace the standard 30" wheels and full-eliptical springs.

Shoot forward a hundred years. At Hot Rod Super Nationals in Ohio. Jeff Smith was there covering the action and there just happened to be an Amish open track day at the 1/2 mile dirt track there at the fair grounds. Amazed at the handling ability of these cutting edge wagons he asked Ezekiel Grant what this type of customization was called. Because of the language barrier, the term was changed to Pro Touring which at that time meant Professionally modified buggies that could tour the country and still handle better than a horse w/o a buggy.

Jeff thought about that term while he was looking at the Lenco equipped 33x21.5 shod, 5-stage N20 cars and thought: "Why couldn't we build street cars that not only could out-perform a horse but could out-perform a new car.....dare I say a new sports car!?!"

Hence Pro-Touring as we know it. I'd just like to thank our Native American and Amish brothers for pushing the limits back in their day.(grabs lighter and flicks it on as I bow my head in rememberence)

[Bill Howell]

Thanks for the history lesson Craig.
Two questions:
1) Weren't those wheels 44's?
2) I can't remember, were those buggys one horse or two horse?

Oh, and btw, ole Ezekiel was a hoot wasn't he. :lmao:

[CraigMorrison]

I've heard that the Flanderhoogan brothers ; Job and Jacob experimented with 44's, but the village elders complained that they were too radical and was in violation of their vows of modesty. 40's were the limit.


Two horse buggies were done, but the extra weight and size up front made it difficult for maneuvering.

Here's Olaf cornering with an early "pro touring" cart.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.wakerobinfarm.ca/gallery4/olaf&joey.jpg)
You just can't corner like that with two. Note the horse is also a Norwegian Fjord horse. I'd like to go into how the popularity of these horses inspired the Ford automobile, but there just isn't time right now.

[trapin]

:lol: Great stuff Craig!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Actually, it's a Native American term. Occasionally, indian tribes would saddle train Buffalo and ride them across the planes. Amazed at their cornering ability, acceleration and braking, they called them "Proata Tatanka" meaning literally "Buffalo that can handle better than a horse"

Then the term was forgotten about. We can thank the Amish for uncovering it when they started customizing their wagon's to perform better. So much so that they could outperform a horse w/o a wagon. I believe it was Hezekiah Johanson out of Berks County, PA that first used the term in regards to a horse and cart......Of course he used it incorrectly when he swapped on the 40" wagon wheels and the goat skin air-bags to replace the standard 30" wheels and full-eliptical springs.

Shoot forward a hundred years. At Hot Rod Super Nationals in Ohio. Jeff Smith was there covering the action and there just happened to be an Amish open track day at the 1/2 mile dirt track there at the fair grounds. Amazed at the handling ability of these cutting edge wagons he asked Ezekiel Grant what this type of customization was called. Because of the language barrier, the term was changed to Pro Touring which at that time meant Professionally modified buggies that could tour the country and still handle better than a horse w/o a buggy.

Jeff thought about that term while he was looking at the Lenco equipped 33x21.5 shod, 5-stage N20 cars and thought: "Why couldn't we build street cars that not only could out-perform a horse but could out-perform a new car.....dare I say a new sports car!?!"

Hence Pro-Touring as we know it. I'd just like to thank our Native American and Amish brothers for pushing the limits back in their day.(grabs lighter and flicks it on as I bow my head in rememberence)
:lmao: :rotfl: Thanks to you for clearing up the lineage of the term. So many hath forgotten its roots...

[kennyd]

Actually, it's a Native American term. Occasionally, indian tribes would saddle train Buffalo and ride them across the planes. Amazed at their cornering ability, acceleration and braking, they called them "Proata Tatanka" meaning literally "Buffalo that can handle better than a horse"

Then the term was forgotten about. We can thank the Amish for uncovering it when they started customizing their wagon's to perform better. So much so that they could outperform a horse w/o a wagon. I believe it was Hezekiah Johanson out of Berks County, PA that first used the term in regards to a horse and cart......Of course he used it incorrectly when he swapped on the 40" wagon wheels and the goat skin air-bags to replace the standard 30" wheels and full-eliptical springs.

Shoot forward a hundred years. At Hot Rod Super Nationals in Ohio. Jeff Smith was there covering the action and there just happened to be an Amish open track day at the 1/2 mile dirt track there at the fair grounds. Amazed at the handling ability of these cutting edge wagons he asked Ezekiel Grant what this type of customization was called. Because of the language barrier, the term was changed to Pro Touring which at that time meant Professionally modified buggies that could tour the country and still handle better than a horse w/o a buggy.

Jeff thought about that term while he was looking at the Lenco equipped 33x21.5 shod, 5-stage N20 cars and thought: "Why couldn't we build street cars that not only could out-perform a horse but could out-perform a new car.....dare I say a new sports car!?!"

Hence Pro-Touring as we know it. I'd just like to thank our Native American and Amish brothers for pushing the limits back in their day.(grabs lighter and flicks it on as I bow my head in rememberence)



wayyyyyyyy too funny !

[vanzuuk1]

Just "Amish open track day" is funny!

[Derek69SS]

Think any of our Amish forum members will be offended? :ssst:

[ACEFOOTER]

Just got the latest Hot Rod and they're all excited about their latest event "Drag Week". Fast 1320 times AND they drive @ 300 miles between tracks, no support vehicles! It must suck to go to a track event and expect to have to trailer the car away.

Ok, On my way to my Sarcastic's Anonymous meeting, sorry to interupt

[toxicz28]

I've heard that the Flanderhoogan brothers ; Job and Jacob experimented with 44's, but the village elders complained that they were too radical and was in violation of their vows of modesty. 40's were the limit.


Two horse buggies were done, but the extra weight and size up front made it difficult for maneuvering.

Here's Olaf cornering with an early "pro touring" cart.
http://www.wakerobinfarm.ca/gallery4/t_olaf&joey.jpg (http://www.wakerobinfarm.ca/gallery4/olaf&joey.jpg)
You just can't corner like that with two. Note the horse is also a Norwegian Fjord horse. I'd like to go into how the popularity of these horses inspired the Ford automobile, but there just isn't time right now.

Yes, but it I believe it was the Yoder's Jeremiah, Jedediah, and Ezekiel that started lowering their wagons for improved cornering. I think they lowered them 18". They wanted to go lower, but their father Samuel still wanted to use the wagon in the fields. He insited it had 12" of ground clearance.