Chevelle control arms

[qwk406]

Hello all,

Looking for info regarding front control arm suggestions to improve handling of my '69.
It's lowered 2" using springs, has Bilsteins, currec trac rear uppers, boxed stock lowers, stock front sway bar and no rear bar. Car rides real nice and handles much better than stock with the few changes i've made, but I know that there is a ton of improvement to be made. I've decided that the next logical move would be to improve the front geometry. The big question is fixed upper arms or the SPC arms? Car will not be autocrossed or raced. I'm looking to make it handle as well as I can without breaking the bank and keeping it dependable. My main concern with the SPC's are all of the individual parts that they are made with and whether or not they will lose adjustment over time. I live in NYC with the worlds crappiest roads. The thought of the stress they'll be under makes me envision total destruction from the incessant pounding they'll take from potholes, ruts and minor berms in the pavement, (I should convert it to a 4x4 suspension) it's probably an irrational fear, but.....
Advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Rich

[andrewb70]

Rich,

Adding lower control arms is not going to do much for geometry, other than maybe allow you to run more caster (if the lower arms are built for this). The next step to improving geometry is to add a taller front spindle, like the ones from SpeedTech. There are other solutions, like adding a taller upper ball joint. The tall spindle fixes the poor factory camber curve.

Having said all that, if you like how the car handles now, I would consider leaving it alone.

Andrew

[qwk406]

Andrew,
Front upper and lower are factory pieces. My understanding is that with a taller spindle and ball joint with the factory UCA there may be binding of the upper ball joint possibly causing failure. I've also read where some of the UCA's have revised geometry to change the alignment specs and improve the geometry.
I'm looking to make the car handle the best it can without using race pieces.
My SUV handles better than the Chevelle...I don't like that!
So you're saying that just changing the spindle will correct the issues the A bodies are known for?
Rich

[lobudget]

I used taller spindles ('78 Trans Am) on my '72 El Camino. I had to shorten the upper arm to get the camber right after the swap. The T/A spindles really made a difference but came with more bump steer.

[andrewb70]

I used taller spindles ('78 Trans Am) on my '72 El Camino. I had to shorten the upper arm to get the camber right after the swap. The T/A spindles really made a difference but came with more bump steer.

Yup....that is the old school (like mid 1980s) way of doing it. There are better options now, like the AFX spindles that I mentioned. You do need to get different (shorter) UCA, but the bottom ones can stay stock.

Rich, I can't imagine that your Chevelle handles that poorly. Back in 1990-1991 I installed 550/150 lowering springs, poly bushings, and giant sway bars on my GTO, and it handled way...way better than stock.

Tires also make a big difference...not sure what you are using.

Andrew

[USAZR1]

Hello all,

Looking for info regarding front control arm suggestions to improve handling of my '69.
It's lowered 2" using springs, has Bilsteins, currec trac rear uppers, boxed stock lowers, stock front sway bar and no rear bar. Car rides real nice and handles much better than stock with the few changes i've made, but I know that there is a ton of improvement to be made. I've decided that the next logical move would be to improve the front geometry. The big question is fixed upper arms or the SPC arms? Car will not be autocrossed or raced. I'm looking to make it handle as well as I can without breaking the bank and keeping it dependable. My main concern with the SPC's are all of the individual parts that they are made with and whether or not they will lose adjustment over time. I live in NYC with the worlds crappiest roads. The thought of the stress they'll be under makes me envision total destruction from the incessant pounding they'll take from potholes, ruts and minor berms in the pavement, (I should convert it to a 4x4 suspension) it's probably an irrational fear, but.....
Advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Rich


Just a suggestion,Rich, but this set-up will work well. http://umiperformance.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_251_272&products_id=774
I would also install one of their larger front swaybars.
Are you still running 15" wheels and tires?

[qwk406]

Yup....that is the old school (like mid 1980s) way of doing it. There are better options now, like the AFX spindles that I mentioned. You do need to get different (shorter) UCA, but the bottom ones can stay stock.

Rich, I can't imagine that your Chevelle handles that poorly. Back in 1990-1991 I installed 550/150 lowering springs, poly bushings, and giant sway bars on my GTO, and it handled way...way better than stock.

Tires also make a big difference...not sure what you are using.

Andrew

Andrew,
The way it is now it does handle much better than stock, but there seems to be a lot of understeer, which from what i have read is due to the design of the original suspension and the poor camber curve. The plan is to use front UCA's, plus a taller spindle, then add sway bars last as I've been told they should be used to fine tune the suspension.

I'm still running 15's all around, mainly because I can't make a decision as to what style wheel i like. I also want to fill the fender wells and not have that rubber band tire look. It seems as if there are more sizes available to match the 275/60 245/60 15's I'm currently running.

Ultimately I'd like the car to handle the best it can and be able to drive it for a few hours without getting out of it exhausted.

As I look through articles and sites for parts, it gets confusing as to which brands to use. DSE, Hotchkiss, UMI, Global west, SPC, Jegs, Summit, chinese stuff, etc.... How does one choose and what are the differences in design, quality, durability and do they actually help,or are they just a fancy copy of the factory part without any benefit?

As you know the parts get real expensive, real fast and wasting $$ is not an option. I don't have an issue buying better parts and spending a little more money, but if it's not necessary....
My plan is to do it right the first time...hopefully.

I've come here for advice because of what has been done by the members and respect the experience that is passed around. I may not post here often, but i often stop by and do learn quite a bit as i poke around.

Thanks again

[qwk406]

Sweet Elco Clint!
Still running 15's
Are you using that UMI setup?

[Nicks67GTO]

So I take it you're talking to Marc Savitske at SC&C based on the spc references? If that's the case just listen to him and you'll be fine. Marc has a tall ball joint/spc upper/ stock lower a arm package that gets you most of the way there without having to buy the expensive lowers or spindles. Hes a good guy and knkws his stuff. If you want the lowers I have a set of the 3.0 lowers i could sell at a great price. Pm me if youre interested.

[pitts64]

I agree 100% with Nick..

I have a SC&C Stage 3 on my street only 69 el Camino.. Fantastic! The tuning ability is amazing! Don't think you don't need to tune on the street, as a matter of fact I think you need it more on a street ride.

I did the Spohn Del Spheres in the back with no rear bar..

Let Marc spec you a Lee 14:1 box also.. I have a Lee 14:1 with a 30lb valve, it has the unassisted feel of manual with the quickness and smoothness of power..
I bought a Grant steering adaptor and tried different wheel diameters, I like the 13.5 best.. I also like the vintage 60s look of the black and chrome with holes in the spoke wheel..

[jetmech442]

I agree 100% with Nick..

I have a SC&C Stage 3 on my street only 69 el Camino.. Fantastic! The tuning ability is amazing! Don't think you don't need to tune on the street, as a matter of fact I think you need it more on a street ride.

I did the Spohn Del Spheres in the back with no rear bar..

Let Marc spec you a Lee 14:1 box also.. I have a Lee 14:1 with a 30lb valve, it has the unassisted feel of manual with the quickness and smoothness of power..
I bought a Grant steering adaptor and tried different wheel diameters, I like the 13.5 best.. I also like the vintage 60s look of the black and chrome with holes in the spoke wheel..

Yup, agreed with Nick and Pitts, Marc is a great guy. I unfortunately bought the CPP drop spindle before talking to him(would have liked the AFX), but I run tall upper/lower ball joints, SPC adjustable uppers and stock lowers(and hotchkis 1'' drops). I have 285's up front and the thing is amazing.

I know what you mean about filling out the wheel wells. I found the Nitto NT05 295/45/R18 fits great with my stance, but you need a ton of heat into them to get sticky(good road race tire I think). I'm switching to the Hankook RS4 as a more aggressive autocross tire that still fills out the wells.

One note on the adjustable uppers. you will be very hard pressed to find a shop to do a proper alignement. after several failed attempts, I got the Fastrax caster/camber gage and was able to dial in the specs Marc suggested. that alone made the steering feel and turn in feel a zillion times better.

I did most of my mods in stages. the drop spindles/springs/disc brakes first. Then upper fronts and tall upper ball joint. a year later came the tall lower bj (to correct bump steer) , then finally this last weekend Hellwig sway bars. Super excited for the sway bars. I subscribe to the Soft Spring Big Bar theory-but haven't had a big bar yet, so it's just been a soft spring car lol. I guess what I'm getting at is the uppers and a tall ball joint are a great next step in your handling evolution. (also, I beat the crap out of my SPC's on Chicago roads-I'm more worried about the stock lowers fracturing than I am the uppers). Hope this helps, sorry for the ramble.

[qwk406]

I've got a Lee 12:1 box in it, it's a little tight, I would do a 14:1 next time.
I'll give Mark a call, he's helped me in the past. I def need to do this in stages as the budget will allow.

Thank you for the responses and the advice, it's much appreciated

Rich