SRG, Spec, Schwartz full frame or AME Clip and Speedtech 69 Camaro

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hi,

i am looking for the best suspension/frame for my 69 Camaro.
Lurking for a few years on forums and working on the body of my 1. Gen, i want to decide, what to do for the suspension.
The Camaro was a racecar since the 80s, therefore is no rust. But all the "modifications" done were a hackjob. Now i want to make it a nice street/track car, country streets and Autobahn. Stable and highspeed proof.
The frame back is notched and minitubed, in front the sub is hacked for the engine.
Now i am looking for the best solution for the money.
Is it better to put in a full frame from SRG, Schwartz or the Spec chassis from the Roadstershop. They are looking all good and payable...
:git:
The other option would be an AME 4bar rear clip and the Speedtech Ultimate frontclip.
I like the rearframe of the 4bar clip and the Speedtech frontsub is one of the best rightnow with this steering and the real wide front tires.... This would be more expensive, but.....:git:

Please help me decide, i am open for every recommendation.

[Mean 69]

LOVE Germany! I served two years in the Military outside of Stuttgart and loved every moment.

Do you have TUV product requirements for the parts you will import? I know this applies to newer cars but don't know that laws for older ones. I'd look into that for certain if you haven't already, it could be a very big deal as they are very rigorous in their requirements.

Mark

[Build-It-Break-It]

I have the speedtech extreme subframe and torque arm in my 68 camaro. That said,I might of went with the 10k Roadster shop chassis. The geometry may not be on par with the speedtech set up but for the money your getting a full frame car.

I don't believe Roaster shop offers a torque arm set up which is why I went with speedtech. I've seen the Roadster shop chassis in person and it's amazing.

Speedtech is a great group of guys to deal with and their product is top notch. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. I'd contact Ron Sutton and let him know your goals and skill set and he can't guide you. He's a great guy to deal with.

[TANKMASTERJ]

I too battle this for my 67. Saw the Roadster Shop stuff in Memphis at FBody weekend. AME, Detroit Speed, both awesome. But bang for buck I went with. Speed tech torque arm with their Dutchman 9". I haven't been install yet as I am in sheet metal stage mini tubs and such. When all that's complete iam going to drive it for a while and then upgrade my front subframe to Speed Tech also. Currently it's tubulars, coil over conversions with Viking double adjustable. And wilwoods. I drove with this front end before dismantle the car and was extremely happy with the front end. So that was my motivation for speed tech is I can. Do rear now and front later. If money was not a factor at all Roadster Shop all the way. I saw it on the ground bare, under a real deal Steel body under construction and under two complete cars. Again Nothing wrong with AME or DSE, both awesome companies and products as well as speed tech. But I was dang impressed with Roadster Shop. SRG I considered but not seriously.
Good luck

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

LOVE Germany! I served two years in the Military outside of Stuttgart and loved every moment.

Do you have TUV product requirements for the parts you will import? I know this applies to newer cars but don't know that laws for older ones. I'd look into that for certain if you haven't already, it could be a very big deal as they are very rigorous in their requirements.

Mark

Hi Mark,
thanx for your nice words. I am only 100 miles away from Stuttgart, but in Bavaria.
You were here, then you know, you NEED a good chassis and a lot of steam for the Porsches, Audis...
The TÜV is a real pain overhere. They make rules, nobody needs these rules.
They think, they are smart and you dont have a chance with cars from 2000 and up.
Certainly you need one engineer, who approves your older car to be legal on the streets.
It must have nice welds, be safe and be overall well excecuted, then you get the OK.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

I have the speedtech extreme subframe and torque arm in my 68 camaro. That said,I might of went with the 10k Roadster shop chassis. The geometry may not be on par with the speedtech set up but for the money your getting a full frame car.

I don't believe Roaster shop offers a torque arm set up which is why I went with speedtech. I've seen the Roadster shop chassis in person and it's amazing.

Speedtech is a great group of guys to deal with and their product is top notch. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. I'd contact Ron Sutton and let him know your goals and skill set and he can't guide you. He's a great guy to deal with.

Hello Ahmad,

i think the same, the Speedtech front sub is the best rightnow !
The other side is a fullframe, because it will be cheaper and good enough for me.
And i dont want a torquearm, because my Camaro looks weak and cut in the rear.
For this situation a rearclip with frame or fullframe is the best for my liking.

Do you think, it makes sence to contact Ron Sutton ? i have read a lot from him and most of it sounds expensive ?! I have some skills, but i am not a chassisbuilder and i like the readily available parts to get fit. Unfortunately i am on a (way to high)budget, too.
I drool over the parts and cars, some on this forum make, wow !

Thank you for your input !

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hi Tankmasterj,

you are the second one for the Roadstershop frame. I know, its very good workmanship, but i cant see it myself. I am a little far away, lol. This makes your opinion even more important.
But i second your motivation, too. Rear now and front sub later.
The money is a factor for me and i want also the most bang for the buck.
This said, i am looking ONLY at the Spec fullchassis, Schwartz or SRG. These are in reach for me .
The AME or normal Roadstershop chassis is to expensive for me.
Only for the new speedtech ultimate subframe i would give more money. Its wider front tires and super geometry and steering.
I think the SPEC fullchassis from RS is less money as the rearclip and Speedtech sub, but i can be wrong.

All of you were impressed with Roadstershop. Are here opinions about the others ?
For most of the time i will use the Camaro for the streets and Autobahn.
No Autocross, some roadcourse sometimes.

I am ready for learning...

[killer69]

Why do you think a full frame is Better?
what are the advantages?
just asking for a friend? lol but seriously we have never had any flex or body alignment issues using the sub frame Heck RedZed has been auto crossed numerous times and it has no Subframe connectors or Roll bar and we see Zero issues. and let me tell you it is WAY easier to pull the subframe to do a engine swap than a full frame.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Why do you think a full frame is Better?
what are the advantages?
just asking for a friend? lol but seriously we have never had any flex or body alignment issues using the sub frame Heck RedZed has been auto crossed numerous times and it has no Subframe connectors or Roll bar and we see Zero issues. and let me tell you it is WAY easier to pull the subframe to do a engine swap than a full frame.

Hello Blake,

i think you didnt understand me or my english is not good enough.
i am not favouring a fullframe ! Since money is a factor for me, i looked only for Spec, SRG or Schwartz full chassis AND your ultimate sub and rearclip! Because in the end these fullframes will be cheaper than a rearclip and your fine ultimate frontclip . I said a lot of times, the Speedtech front sub is probably the best sub rightnow. But a little more money.

I would also have a question for you :
If i go with your ultimate front sub, is it a good combination to go with the AME 4bar rearclip or similar ?

Thank you very much to participate here for my decision !

[dhutton]

Shipping a full frame to Germany sounds very expensive to me....

Don

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Shipping a full frame to Germany sounds very expensive to me....

Don

Hi Don,

Yes it is !! We need to add freight, customs and tax. You can double the price, outch.
I have a little advantage, i have a european friend with a container in Texas for the real big parts.
But i drive and raced american cars for over 25 years and i am used to it, lol.
I get parts from Conroe, Texas tomorrow. Wheel measuring tool.

Your car is very nice, too.

[TANKMASTERJ]

Autobahn,
Another thing for Speed Tech torque arm. I fully understand wanting the rear clip. The AME is excellent quality as well. However Speed tech torque arm applies the load from accelerating to both front spring pockets and the rear of the front subframe via the torque arm mount. Both areas designed by factory to take load. So that makes full rear clip or subframe connectors less needed because of where the load is applied. The AME clip is nice but kinda like ridetech 4 links there is not a lot of adjustment available, and bolt in style like ridetech applys load in different places than factory designed.b I've known of some of those causing frame rails cracks. You won't see that with a torque arm, an AME clip or a Roadster Shop chassis. More to think about.
I'm with you though I cannot see how a full frame would NOT be better and Roadster Shop spec chassis has alot to offer for 10 grand. Shipping and customs is a bitch though.
Good luck.

[killer69]

Hello Blake,

i think you didnt understand me or my english is not good enough.
i am not favouring a fullframe ! Since money is a factor for me, i looked only for Spec, SRG or Schwartz full chassis AND your ultimate sub and rearclip! Because in the end these fullframes will be cheaper than a rearclip and your fine ultimate frontclip . I said a lot of times, the Speedtech front sub is probably the best sub rightnow. But a little more money.

I would also have a question for you :
If i go with your ultimate front sub, is it a good combination to go with the AME 4bar rearclip or similar ?

Thank you very much to participate here for my decision !


Well here is my take on it. we spent alot of time with Ron Sutton to develop the Extreme Sub frame to be as good as it could be geometry wise, then to fit the biggest tire. have the most steering angle AND price it compared to the other "BEST" options. since Jan we actually increased the VALUE of the extreme packages by now making them standard with the Ron Sutton secret Sauce shocks and Draco Springs, Again to make the package the BEST available. (obviously shock upgrades are still available to double or triple adjustable) that being said. WE feel and if you were to ask Ron what he thinks of the Torque arm there are alot of advantages or all the 4 links.

I can not go into specifics about other manufactures product for obvious reasons so I will focus on the torque arm. there is NO cutting or floor modification to install it, it allows 3" tail pipes over the axle and still have really low ride height. it works with or with out the mini tub, and actually you could even install in with out a mini tube and then do the tub later on if you chose to. the instant center and anti dive are better than most of the 4 links, there is really no adjust ability required as it is a engineered system, there is no pinion change during suspension travel, no wheel hop, roll center is adjustable from 6 to 11" the wheel base is adjustable with the Articulink no bind trailing arms.

There is minimal welding you could actually figure about 4 minutes of welding time there is a tuned adjustable rear sway bar as an option as well.

We have both a protouring torque arm and a Extreme package the only difference is the shocks and springs that are supplied but they are both matched to their respective front kits


Thanks for the comments and if there is anything I can help with let me know

[Lionel Hutz]

Well here is my take on it. we spent alot of time with Ron Sutton to develop the Extreme Sub frame to be as good as it could be geometry wise, then to fit the biggest tire. have the most steering angle AND price it compared to the other "BEST" options. since Jan we actually increased the VALUE of the extreme packages by now making them standard with the Ron Sutton secret Sauce shocks and Draco Springs, Again to make the package the BEST available. (obviously shock upgrades are still available to double or triple adjustable) that being said. WE feel and if you were to ask Ron what he thinks of the Torque arm there are alot of advantages or all the 4 links.

I can not go into specifics about other manufactures product for obvious reasons so I will focus on the torque arm. there is NO cutting or floor modification to install it, it allows 3" tail pipes over the axle and still have really low ride height. it works with or with out the mini tub, and actually you could even install in with out a mini tube and then do the tub later on if you chose to. the instant center and anti dive are better than most of the 4 links, there is really no adjust ability required as it is a engineered system, there is no pinion change during suspension travel, no wheel hop, roll center is adjustable from 6 to 11" the wheel base is adjustable with the Articulink no bind trailing arms.

There is minimal welding you could actually figure about 4 minutes of welding time there is a tuned adjustable rear sway bar as an option as well.

We have both a protouring torque arm and a Extreme package the only difference is the shocks and springs that are supplied but they are both matched to their respective front kits


Thanks for the comments and if there is anything I can help with let me know

I can’t find anything mustang related on the speed tech website, only GM frames. Can you please post a link?

[dhutton]

I can’t find anything mustang related on the speed tech website, only GM frames. Can you please post a link?
I think I saw some pics on Facebook.

Don

[Cdog]

Hi Don,

Yes it is !! We need to add freight, customs and tax. You can double the price, outch.
I have a little advantage, i have a european friend with a container in Texas for the real big parts.
But i drive and raced american cars for over 25 years and i am used to it, lol.
I get parts from Conroe, Texas tomorrow. Wheel measuring tool.

Your car is very nice, too.


A couple of years back I shipped an AME front frame to England for a PT member. He's an American working over there. We used a shipper based out of Orange County CA. I'm happy to pass on his contact to you via PM if you would like to discuss his experience and logistics planning.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hi Cdog,

thank you very much for your offer !
For us here in Europe the freight, taxes and customs are one of the most expensive parts of our car hobby.

I have way to much projects and nice drivable American cars and I ship a lot of parts (for me) over the year.
I appreciate every offer in the USA or Europe to get contacts to help for this matter !

I wish you and all forum members a nice and merry Christmas !

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

This does remind me, there is a little time gone from my last post, lol.
I decided to go with a ride tech 4link for my 69 Camaro.
Since the last post, the Camaro got new Quaters and front sheetmetal along the 4 link with Currie 9" rear.
A little shorter rear for the 12" wheels with 325 tire.

I know, its a long way to the last work on the car. But I like every minute, if I go in the garage and see the car, it is very good for the soul. Next is a front subframe solution...

[srode]

Following and hoping to see some pictures in the future!

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Some years later, I am back and ordered a front subframe.
A lot of work later, on other cars and garage, I ordered a subframe from DSE !

It looks very nice, works, and their customer service is OK !

The problem, as always, I am from Germany...
I have the Ridetech 4 link installed and decided between the Speedtech or the DSE. But I didn't get any answer from Speedtech and DSE answered immediately. Problem solved.
If you dont want my business, another company gets it !
The DSE guys made also a problem about the freight, but answered every question and gave me a good feeling.
I am looking forward to the subframe and I am very excited about it.

I have a LS3 engine and I am undecided about the trans.
Should I go with a 4L80 or with the BMW 8HP70...?
And the brakes are next...?

This will be a longterm project and it is NO problem.

210714

[PT69]

Hi Autobahn,

did you order your sub directly from DSE ?

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

NO, other company.

[dhutton]

NO, other company.
I’m more interested in your 59… :)

Don

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

I’m more interested in your 59… :)

Don

Was a North Carolina car.

I bought it 12 years ago from the USA. 350/350 and nice driving since then...
In the background you see my other 59, its a 4 door.

210733

210734
210735

[dhutton]

Nice. Has to be an unusual sight in Germany.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Nice. Has to be an unusual sight in Germany.

YES, and now it is sooo expensive...
For me it is one of the best rears (views) that Chevrolet has built !
Only the 59.

Here is my 69 Camaro Z/28.
This is very anusual overhere in Europe/Germany :

A lot of people have Camaros, but the Z/28 is very rare.
That's the reason I built another 69 for fast driving with good chassis and brakes...

210737

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
1957 Buick Estate Wagon
1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
1959 Apache Fleetside

You have the same taste than me with cars !
210738

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

You need a 57 Buick hardtop wagon. They are very cool! :)

The blue one is mine, the other is inspiration. Detroit Speed front clip and quadralink now installed in mine along with an LT and 8 speed auto. It’ll take some time but I’ll get it done….

Don

WOW, that is a nice car, too.
But I am happy, if I get the parts for my Chevrolets.
I dont want to think about a Buick, never less they have nice cars.

I did the restoration of the 4 door overhere and it was about 4-5 years...
All parts are new or overhauled including fresh 327" engine and TH 350.

Summer

210744

Winterplace

210745

unrestored

210746210746

[dhutton]

Looks great. Yes nobody makes parts for 57 Buicks. It’s been a bit of an adventure so far.

Don

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Looks great. Yes nobody makes parts for 57 Buicks. It’s been a bit of an adventure so far.

Don

Here in Germany, it would be no adventure, it would be hopeless...lol.

I am in the works with the 69 Camaro, but also the beginning for the 59 Apache. Today I wanted to bring the car to disassembly and sandblasting...
But it is snowing the whole day ! Next week...
It is an old racecar hauler Dually 3800 from California.

My vision is the Apache loaded with a 69 Camaro...:cheers:

210753

[PT69]

Hey Autobahn,

would you tell me at which company you placed your order for your sub ? I`m from germany too, and i`m in the same sittuation. Speedtech extreme or DSE.
Sad, i`ve not have enough money for a Roadstershop Fast Track chassis with irs for my 69 camaro.
Hopefully i can add a AME irs in a few years.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hi PT 69,

yes I also had the problem with shipping from DSE.
I dont know why.

Their customer service was good every time, but I didn't get a quote or anything about the freight ...
Then I had two other options, one was JEGS and Camarocentral.
The price for the subframe is the same as DSE.
And i ordered a few parts from JEGS and then I ordered the subframe, too.
I got the shipping costs a day later .

Speedtech didn't even answer my email !

I buy parts and cars for over 30 years now in the USA. And I learned over the years, those guys, who not take care of you at the first moment, they take not care about anything !
Camaro central has good customer service , too !!
And I buy parts from Jegs over 30 years...
I even bought a racecar from Troy Coughlin back in 93...

I also think, for fast street driving the DSE sub is very good !
The Fast track is a lot more expensive...

Where do you come from ?
I am from Bavaria.

[PT69]

Hey Autobahn,

thank you, hopefully i can make a decision the next few weeks.

I got response from Speedtech imidiatly. Ed from Speedtech was very helpful !

I`m about 10 Minutes away from Karlsruhe !










Hi PT 69,

yes I also had the problem with shipping from DSE.
I dont know why.

Their customer service was good every time, but I didn't get a quote or anything about the freight ...
Then I had two other options, one was JEGS and Camarocentral.
The price for the subframe is the same as DSE.
And i ordered a few parts from JEGS and then I ordered the subframe, too.
I got the shipping costs a day later .

Speedtech didn't even answer my email !

I buy parts and cars for over 30 years now in the USA. And I learned over the years, those guys, who not take care of you at the first moment, they take not care about anything !
Camaro central has good customer service , too !!
And I buy parts from Jegs over 30 years...
I even bought a racecar from Troy Coughlin back in 93...

I also think, for fast street driving the DSE sub is very good !
The Fast track is a lot more expensive...

Where do you come from ?
I am from Bavaria.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hey Autobahn,

thank you, hopefully i can make a decision the next few weeks.

I got response from Speedtech imidiatly. Ed from Speedtech was very helpful !

I`m about 10 Minutes away from Karlsruhe !

Karlsruhe is only about 160 km away, I am near Augsburg.
We could meet sometime...

Speedtech is on the forum here, perhaps they will serve their customers from overseas better now...

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Looks great. Yes nobody makes parts for 57 Buicks. It’s been a bit of an adventure so far.

Don


Hi Don,

I can't see your 59 El Camino anymore...
This will be a badass car !

A friend of mine makes Neons, and he makes "Texas" right now for me.
I have this pic from him, it is in the making, and upside down, but will be nice !

210801

[dhutton]

Hi. I felt like I was mucking up your thread with all my junk. Sometimes I get carried away talking about my builds. :)

Texas neon sign is cool. :)

Take care,
Don

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

Hi Don,
i am very interested in your builds and others !

I think, this is what a forum is all about ! Talking, bench racing, whatever...

I get also carried away, because it is my hobby and passion !

Lets see your 59 Camino one more time !

My first task, 11 years ago, was I want to have a 59 Two door, four door, wagon and an El Camino.
But there got a few other cars in the way...and now there a lot others, but equally nice !

[dhutton]

Hi Don,
i am very interested in your builds and others !

I think, this is what a forum is all about ! Talking, bench racing, whatever...

I get also carried away, because it is my hobby and passion !

Lets see your 59 Camino one more time !

My first task, 11 years ago, was I want to have a 59 Two door, four door, wagon and an El Camino.
But there got a few other cars in the way...and now there a lot others, but equally nice !

Ok back by popular demand is my 59 Elco project. It’s sitting on a one of two Ironworks frame I picked up for $2000. Planning an LT engine. I had the rendering done and took some heat for deleting the chrome and stainless.
210811210812

[dhutton]

Have you seen this car? Now this is badass! It inspired my Elco concept.

[Autobahn-Outlaw]

OHH WOW, looks like Ringbrothers !
But there are a multitude of builders, who make a perfect car.

Your Elco will look equally good...after a few days and little money...:idea:

[dhutton]

OHH WOW, looks like Ringbrothers !
But there are a multitude of builders, who make a perfect car.

Your Elco will look equally good...after a few days and little money...:idea:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/1959-chevrolet-impala-truly-timeless/

[KatWade]

SpeedTech might be the answer you never knew you needed buddy