fitech ultimate ls vs holley terminator

[Mark Antrim]

Looking at removing my fast ezefi and installing a new system. I've narrowed it to these two as I want to keep my ls6 intake and not install a tbi intake. Besides price can anyone give me the pros and cons to these setups? I don't know much about the fitech but have seen good reviews.

[Mark Antrim]

Title is supposed to be fitech ls vs holley terminator ls.

[csouth]

I just installed the Holley and I'm still working on getting it running smoothly. The install was simple, my most tedious part being running ground and power to my trunk mounted battery. The question I would want to know is the product support? I did not read good things when reading about the FiTech as far as the support model goes. Holley has many users and a support forum. The price of the FiTech does make it very attractive though.

[andrewb70]

I run the Holley Dominator ECU in my Cougar, so I am probably biased.

There is a big thread on LS1tech about the Fitech...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1870820-has-anyone-tried-fitech-70050-70051-a.html

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Yeah, tech support is the big thing. I'd rather pay a little more and get better tech support. Problem is the price is almost double, thats why I want some feedback more on tech support and problems with the systems than anything.

[andrewb70]

There is a fairly steep learning curve for both systems. As mentioned, Holley has a very active support forum as well as phone tech support. They also have numerous videos on their YouTube channel that demonstrates various hardware and software best practices.

Before buying, I would read, read, read, as much as possible.

Holley also regularly updates their software with new features and they are offered at no cost.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Andrew, since you brought it up. The updates, has this been something you can do on line or does the ecm have to be sent in. The ezefi that I have had, had to be sent in for some of the updates so a big pita.

[Mark Antrim]

Holley tech support was great when I had my commander 950. Its a big reason holley is on the list.

[csouth]

Andrew, since you brought it up. The updates, has this been something you can do on line or does the ecm have to be sent in. The ezefi that I have had, had to be sent in for some of the updates so a big pita.

You can download the update and apply it yourself.

[Mark Antrim]

I see the hp is a sequential injection does that mean that the terminator is also sequential?

[andrewb70]

I see the hp is a sequential injection does that mean that the terminator is also sequential?

Software and firmware updates are done by the user. All Holley EFI kits are sequential. Terminator is just a name for various kits that are complete and also include the 3.5" touch screen, so technically a laptop is not required. This is true but a laptop is certainly handy for accessing some advanced adjustments.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Thank you Andrew, I didn't know if using the 3.5 screen limited it to batch fire or not. Glad to hear its sequential.

[AU Doc]

I'm interested in this as well. I'm working myself up to pulling the trigger on the Terminator system for my LS2, but if there is a cheaper equivalent or possibly just better option, I should probably consider it.

[Mark Antrim]

My first step was to email both company's to see how there email tech support was. With the holiday I figure it would take a while to hear back from them. I had sent them out on Sunday.
Fitech instantly sent a message that they were out of the office. At least I knew it got sent. After sending holley some questions the next screen said my question would be answered within 2 days. Again not looking for quick response, just looking at their response.
Fitech got back to me Monday afternoon. Some of the questions were omitted and I had to re-ask some which they couldn't answer. Got on some of the forums and got the answers I needed.
I will let you know later on my opinion on holley's response. Next I'll call both company's for tech support and see how that goes.

[Mark Antrim]

My questions to fitech were on the ultimate ls and I don't know if it would reflect their other systems.
I asked if the system only uses the supplies handheld, their response was it comes with pc compable software. I asked if the system was batch or sequential injection, they replied semi-sequential or untimed sequential. I also asked to get a rough dimention of the ecm and the response was they "didn't have that information at that time, maybe soon". I also asked if clarification if their system ran a 3 bar map sensor even on naturally asperated engines and really didn't get a full response to that. Got the last 2 questions answered for a couple of forums.

[AU Doc]

This is good info. Keep us updated on what you hear from Holley!

[Mark Antrim]

Another piece of info about fitech. There is a consensus on forums about fitech that when ordering a standalone ls ecm , you may or may not get a map sensor that the system needs. Now the only sensor listed that you are supposed to receive is an oxygen sensor but interesting that some kits have some and others dont. It has been reported that you need to use the a.c. Delco map sensor as there seems to be a problem using other brand sensors. Good to know as that sensor is around 30.00 on line.

[SSLOW6.0]

Another piece of info about fitech. There is a consensus on forums about fitech that when ordering a standalone ls ecm , you may or may not get a map sensor that the system needs. Now the only sensor listed that you are supposed to receive is an oxygen sensor but interesting that some kits have some and others dont. It has been reported that you need to use the a.c. Delco map sensor as there seems to be a problem using other brand sensors. Good to know as that sensor is around 30.00 on line.

Have you considered the MegaSquirt 3 Gold Box? Seems more capable than either setup.

[Mark Antrim]

I've seen that pop up a couple of times. I'll have to look at it.

[andrewb70]

I don't know much about the MegaSquirt, but people seem to like it.

Some more advanced features of the Holley software include:

PWM output for cooling fans (this is awesome)..people have also used this with solid state relays to ramp down fuel pumps when under light load.
Injector end angle tuning (this is programmed based on cam specs to time injector firing with valve opening)
Built in boost control (multiple strategies)
Nitrous control (timing retard, activation, multiple stages, etc...)
Water/meth injection control (don't know much about it)
2-step (even 3 step rev limiters)
Auto fuel scaling...Let's say you change injectors to something bigger, the software will adjust the fuel table. Same goes if you change the base fuel pressure.

The Advanced ICF is new in software 4 and it basically allows you to make your own tables (2D or 3D) to control whatever you want. I don't know much about it, but it is used a lot for various race car functions.

Internal data logging.
Datalog overlay...this allows you to watch all the parameters...like a visual rewind button.

I would strongly recommend downloading and playing with the Holley software, because there is a ton of stuff there.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Thanks Andrew, all the extras do add up and we all do like to make modifications down the road. Even though we tell our wives/girlfriends that we can spend the big dollars now and won't have to change a thing later. I did get an email back from holley answering all my questions. Even though simple, glad to have them answered.

[andrewb70]

Thanks Andrew, all the extras do add up and we all do like to make modifications down the road. Even though we tell our wives/girlfriends that we can spend the big dollars now and won't have to change a thing later. I did get an email back from holley answering all my questions. Even though simple, glad to have them answered.

Download and play with the software. There are numerous base configuration files that you can play with.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Downloaded the software on my laptop and it brought me back to my commander 950 days, just updated.
I have till Friday evening to make a decision but am leaning towards the holley. I did read on another forum(unconfirmed by me) that holley's system is made in the USA and Canada. It also stated that the fitech is made in China. Not that its a deal breaker but just throwing that out there if it matters to you. Maybe someone else can chime in to confirm this to be true or not.

[andrewb70]

Downloaded the software on my laptop and it brought me back to my commander 950 days, just updated.
I have till Friday evening to make a decision but am leaning towards the holley. I did read on another forum(unconfirmed by me) that holley's system is made in the USA and Canada. It also stated that the fitech is made in China. Not that its a deal breaker but just throwing that out there if it matters to you. Maybe someone else can chime in to confirm this to be true or not.

Funny, I'm an old C950 user as well. When the GTO had the 502 it had the Commander 950 system.

I can absolutely confirm that the Holley EFI products are made in Canada and the USA. The current generation Holley EFI products are a direct result of Holley's acquisition of FJO, which is a Canadian company. If you remember FJO they were one of the first companies to have a wideband controller and sensor available, back around 2002. They were around $1200 and built incredibly tough. On their website they showed the controller being run over by a truck and also working while being submerged in a fish tank. I still have a FJO wideband with the original NTK sensor working in my GTO. Holley hasn't messed with that same FJO built quality since the acquisition.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

I used a fjo wide band on my commander 950. Great product!

[andrewb70]

I used a fjo wide band on my commander 950. Great product!

So you know how well built the FJO parts were/are built.
I recall many C950 users adding the FJO wideband because it had a 0-5v output, which could be added to the C950, and replace the narrow band O2. It was very helpful for tuning and I ran the wideband in closed loop with the C950.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Yeah, got sucked in the self learn hype and switched. On that note, the difference between the hp and terminator is just the hand held unit? The price difference is under 100.00. Is it worth to just order the terminator and start out with the self learn, then adjust as I learn the software? Or is it better to just save the money and get the hp? I've got an email into holley to make sure that the handheld is the only difference.

[andrewb70]

Yeah, got sucked in the self learn hype and switched. On that note, the difference between the hp and terminator is just the hand held unit? The price difference is under 100.00. Is it worth to just order the terminator and start out with the self learn, then adjust as I learn the software? Or is it better to just save the money and get the hp? I've got an email into holley to make sure that the handheld is the only difference.

I haven't delved into analyzing the pricing in precise detail, but at a casual glance, the Terminator kits seem to be a better value. The 3.5" screen is handy to have as it gives a convenient way to change the tune on the road, without having to have a laptop handy. I would do all of your serious tuning with the laptop and tweet as you go with the 3.5" screen. I don't know for sure, but I think the 3.5" by itself is a little over $200...so that's why I say the terminator kits are a better value, because you get a little more stuff for not much more money.

Make sure you choose the right Terminator kit. There are a lot of variations for injector plug style, whether it is a 24x or 58x engine (this is important because there is a significant difference in the main harness), the type of wideband (NTK or Bosch)...That might be about it if you are looking at the HP based Terminator kits. If you're looking at a Dominator based Terminator kit, then the options expand (DBW or not, single WB or dual, etc...).

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

If you have the handheld mounted in the car do you have to unplug it from the harness to use a laptop to fine tune?

[andrewb70]

If you have the handheld mounted in the car do you have to unplug it from the harness to use a laptop to fine tune?

You can use them together. Laptop connects via USB and the screen connects via CAN bus. The touch screen is also good for auxiliary gauge functions, like AFR, etc...

[Mark Antrim]

Thank you Andrew for all your help. I think you've helped me spend my money.....I mean decide. Lol!

[Mark Antrim]

I have emailed fitech again yesterday afternoon another question about their map sensor. As of about 24 hours I haven't heard back. Holley I email a question this morning and I have gotten a reply.

[AU Doc]

Where are thinking about buying your Holley kit from? I've called Ron Sutton and left a couple messges, but haven't heard back. It looks like most of the pricing is the same at each of the vendors.

[Mark Antrim]

In going through matts classic bowtie. Good people and great customer service.

[AU Doc]

Give Ron a call and see what he can do for you before you order. I just bought the Holley kit from him, and he was great to deal with.

You can’t go wrong with MCB, either.

[BlackHD]

Which version are you guys purchasing, dbw or dbc?

[andrewb70]

I have dual DBW TBs on the Cougar, this means getting a Terminator kit with the Dominator ECU. The Dominator adds other functionality as well.

Andrew

[JustJohn]

Downloaded the software on my laptop and it brought me back to my commander 950 days, just updated.
I have till Friday evening to make a decision but am leaning towards the holley. I did read on another forum(unconfirmed by me) that holley's system is made in the USA and Canada. It also stated that the fitech is made in China. Not that its a deal breaker but just throwing that out there if it matters to you. Maybe someone else can chime in to confirm this to be true or not.

Even the Fitech injectors are offshore items. Not encouraging since Chinese fuel injectors don't work well enough to be competitive in the aftermarket in general.

Holley uses several Standard Motor Products injectors, which are produced in Greenville SC. Specifically they use the Lucas design disc injector, which was originally designed as an OE part.

[AU Doc]

Which version are you guys purchasing, dbw or dbc?

I bought the 550-611, which is a DBW version.

[Mark Antrim]

Ordering my holley kit today. I've decided that the tech support and the support holley has done for our hobby is worth the extra money. Mine will be dwc.

[jlcustomz]

Good choice.
I had one of the very first Holley throttle body units back around 1991. Was analog & you used a screwdriver to adjust 3 or 4 adjustments. Crude by today's standards but good to go with a company that has had product , testing, & feedback from that far back.

[andrewb70]

Good choice.
I had one of the very first Holley throttle body units back around 1991. Was analog & you used a screwdriver to adjust 3 or 4 adjustments. Crude by today's standards but good to go with a company that has had product , testing, & feedback from that far back.

That was the old Holley analog Pro-jection EFI system. I had that on my GTO around 1991-92. Worked pretty well for what it was (and wasn't).

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Thank you to everyone that has helped me make a decision. I've spent all week watching the holley videos and search on the holley forum. I even watched Andrew's fan control video.

[AU Doc]

Ok. So what did you go with?

[Mark Antrim]

I went with the terminator. I felt the tech support with the fitech was from forums and not from the company its self(already had that with my fast ezefi). I try to support company's when the parts are made here in the USA as much as possible. The ecu has been out for a while so any bugs should be worked out and it is very much expandable.

[andrewb70]

I went with the terminator. I felt the tech support with the fitech was from forums and not from the company its self(already had that with my fast ezefi). I try to support company's when the parts are made here in the USA as much as possible. The ecu has been out for a while so any bugs should be worked out and it is very much expandable.

You made a good choice. My suggestion is to read the installation manual several times. I see people having issues, that are mostly self inflicted, because people do a sloppy installation job.

To be clear, your terminator kit has the Dominator ECU?

Andrew

[AU Doc]

Give us the details! Which part number? Did you pick up any extra or optional parts to go along with it?

I'm hoping to start the install on my setup after the first of the year. You should get started sooner so you can warn me of any hiccups :)

[sandiegocamaro]

I've been on the fence between these two for awhile as well the Atomic EFI.
I'm running a 4L60e so I have the added expense of the trans controller to consider.
Holley HP doesn't support this controller so I either have to buy Dominator or separate controller.
The FiTech adds only $250 for trans controller version.

[Mark Antrim]

Andrew its the hp, couldn't flip the extra 7 bills for the dominator. It is the 550-608 which I think is now on bo. all my spare time I've been reading forums, the manual and watching videos. I am going to do the pwm fan control as I have the mark vi fan. I have a 700r and I see the hp can control the tcc.

[Mark Antrim]

Just so you know the holley will support paddle shifters if you ever go that route for the 4l60e. The fitech will not.

[BlackHD]

I ordered the Holley 550-623, reading as much as I can for my install. Good luck guys.

[Mark Antrim]

I'm hoping to have it in a couple of week as I have 3 weeks off from my second job for the holiday. Gives me time to play in the garage.

[andrewb70]

Just so you know the holley will support paddle shifters if you ever go that route for the 4l60e. The fitech will not.

Just note, any Terminator kits that have the HP ECU are not meant for auto trans control (other than TCC). If you have a 4L60/80 you need to get a Terminator kit with a Dominator ECU. The Dominator has full tuning for transmission, paddle shifting, and can also support DBW.

Andrew

[Mark Antrim]

Sorry, should of been more specific.

[Mark Antrim]

Just a quick update. Since the holley I wanted was on back order(as were most units from them)when I placed my order. I went ahead and upgraded to a terminator with trans control. I figured I won't have to upgrade again and expandability is endless. Starting the install next week.