1970 Camaro Tri-4 bar issue

[TBART70]

http://www.artmorrison.com/instructions/tri4-bar1-Model.pdf
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/10/AM676922JPG-1.jpg


(http://www.artmorrison.com/instructions/tri4-bar1-Model.pdf)

(http://www.artmorrison.com/instructions/tri4-bar1-Model.pdf)
I need some help. I have this in my car, it drives well, except for the massive wheel hop. According to the last page of the link, the bars need to be in a certain plane, mine are not like that because of ride height. I can't go low enough to put the bars in the right places. My question is how would you move the bars, lower the front of the bars or raise the rear of them or both? I know I have to do it equal amounts to keep the geometry the same or close to the original design. Or am I missing something else causing the wheel hop, pinion angle, tires too hard, coil-over setting? any suggestions would be welcome. Can you see an easy way to modify the brackets without cutting it all apart? I would also like to put johnny joints in, Art Morrison makes the frames with them now.
Thanks.

-Tom

[dhutton]

I recommend you ask Matt Jones at Art Morrison. He is their design engineer and very helpful in my experience. You could also send a PM to David Pozzi.

Don

[David Pozzi]

First thing I'd check is for play in any of the joints. After that, you are probably right if it's higher than designed height, then it will want to wheel hop. If there's any adjustment on the shocks, try stiffer settings.
As far as modifying, I’d work on the frame mounts.
I'd ask Matt at Art Morrison for advice. He's their engineer and very sharp.

[Marcus SC&C]

That format of suspension is only intended to be run at a single ride height. The height isn`t adjustable so you can put it where you want it, it`s adjustable so that cars of different weights can be adjusted to the one height that works properly. The lack of optional mounting holes for the links is a dead give away (just a heads up for those considering similar systems).
To regain the original geometry (basically a street rod type parallel 4 bar with converging upper links) you`ll have to drop the front of the lower links to make them parallel with the ground (level) at your desired ride height and raise the rear of the upper links to make them level as well. That should eliminate the wheel hop. The suspension will still have less anti squat than the original leaf spring suspension but at least it won`t shake the car apart. :) If you`d like more traction (who wouldn`t?) add a couple additional holes to allow you to raise the rear of the upper links a little more for more bite. Roll steer will suffer a little bit but there`s quite a bit of happy medium area to play with.

[TBART70]

I'd ask Matt at Art Morrison for advice. He's their engineer and very sharp.

Contacted Art Morrison, I will send them all the info and pics, and see if they can come up with a solution.

Thanks

[TBART70]

From AM

Tom,

I hope all is going well this morning? I just spoke with me lead engineer about your wheel hop, He suggested checking all the pivot points

Too see how loose they might be and your coilover shock setting can or will cause grief. Along with ride height, but in your case the stance and

lower bar angle looks okay.



Hope this helps,

[TBART70]

Nothing is loose, shocks are set to stiffest setting. Should I go softer? Different spring rate? I still think the bars need to be moved.

[dhutton]

Why not try a softer shock setting? What spring rate do you have? Are you running a lot of preload on the spring?

Don

[TBART70]

Why not try a softer shock setting? What spring rate do you have? Are you running a lot of preload on the spring?

Don

I used the coilspring adjuster to raise the ride height(preload). Should I get taller springs to raise the ride height, with a different rate? I have to look and see what the rate is now. RideTech's.

[dhutton]

I would just experiment with shock damping first. I don’t like a lot of preload but have no idea if it would cause wheel hop. I have an assortment of springs here if you want to try a different rate.

Don

[TBART70]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have the intake off right now. Hope to be running again Saturday. Weather is getting colder here and as soon as it snows no more driving. Hopefully I can get it out one More Time.

[TBART70]

12" spring, 2.5 ID, 225 lbs/in
Not sure what direction to go.

[dhutton]

If you are running a lot of preload I would try a 250 lb spring. But only after experimenting with shock damping.

Don

[andrewb70]

I would use whatever spring rate puts the shock in the middle of its travel range. If the spring is too heavy, you may run out of rebound travel on the shock and that will unload the tires.

Andrew

[TBART70]

Think I will call RideTech and get some info, thanks for the help. Any other suggestions are appreciated. Can't drive it now , damn snow!

[marolf101x]

12" 225# springs on the rear of a triangulated 4 link in a second gen camaro sounds about right. For reference our bolt-in 4-link kit uses a 12" 200# spring.

What shocks do you have? Pictures would be great!
Do they have remote reservoirs?

Once I know what shocks you have we'll go from there.

Basic rule of thumb on 4-link rear suspensions. . .the lower bar should be roughly parallel with the ground, the upper bar should be higher at the rear end than it is at the frame.
There's a ton more, but the lower bar is typically the quickest "check" to see where you are.

[dhutton]

I would use whatever spring rate puts the shock in the middle of its travel range. If the spring is too heavy, you may run out of rebound travel on the shock and that will unload the tires.

Andrew

Pretty sure multiple spring rates will get you to ride height depending on how much preload you put on the spring. In my experience with a couple of Ridetech setups I found that for street use I prefer as little preload in the spring as I can get away with. The stored energy in a preloaded spring can result in a lousy ride imho. But this is just based on my personal experience and a collection of coilover springs.

Drive a car with a heavily preloaded spring over a pothole and you will quickly get an idea of what I am talking about. Then take that same car with a heavier spring and little to no preload over that same pothole. Day and night in my experience and experimentation. In theory you should be able to address it with shock damping but I was never able to achieve it with single adjustable shocks.

OP says he is running a high ride height and a preloaded spring. This likely means he has less than optimum shock extension travel left. Although I can’t say if this is the cause of his wheel hop I thought it would be worthwhile to experiment with a stiffer spring. I’m sure Britt will solve his problem in short order.

Don

[marolf101x]

To address Dons last post so everyone has a better understanding:

Spring Basics:
Each spring has a specific rate. . . in example #1 we'll use 200# spring rate for easy math. It takes 200lbs to compress the spring one inch, and another 200lbs each inch after that. In example two we'll use 400# spring rate. Meaning it takes 400lbs to compress the spring each inch.
Hyperco springs will compress to 80% free length before reaching coil bind. So a 12" spring will reach coil bind at 2.4" (so let's use 2.5").

Vehicle Info for our example:
Let's say you have a typical muscle car (how about we use the 70 camaro, grab an average weight from our vehicle weight repository, and round up for easy math? So we'll use 1600lbs rear weight.)
Since 4-link rear suspension systems typically have near 1:1 motion ratio we'll use that. . .again for easy math.
You want 5" of wheel travel for a street driven car. We use 5.2" stroke shocks in nearly all of our 4-link kits for this very reason.
Ideally you want 60% of total travel available for compression events, and 40% available for rebound (you hit more bumps than you do jump the car). So if you have 5" total travel, 3" will be used for compression, 2 inches will be used for rebound. For an easy way to see this, just make sure you have 2.5-3" of shock shaft showing at ride height.

Spring preload to reach ride height:
Example #1; 200# spring rate:
1600lbs divided by two equals 800lbs per corner, so each spring must carry 800lbs.
If it takes 200lbs to compress our spring an inch, by the numbers the spring will compress 4 inches to support the 800lbs, meaning the installed height of the spring is now 8".
****Though you can turn the adjuster nut to move the car body up and down, the actual height of the spring never changes as the weight load never changes.*****
So in our ideal situation we have 3" of compression travel. Our spring is now 8" tall. If we compress 3" so the shock bottoms out, the spring height changed to 5". . .we'll above the coil bind dimension, and perfectly fine to use in our situation.
Example #2; 400# spring r
Vehicle weight did not change, so 1600lbs divided by two equals 800lbs per corner, so each spring must carry 800lbs.
If it takes 400lbs to compress our spring an inch, by the numbers the spring will compress 2 inches to support the 800lbs, meaning the installed height of the spring is now 10".
So in our ideal situation we have 3" of compression travel. Our spring is now 10" tall. If we compress 3" so the shock bottoms out, the spring height changed to 7". . .we'll above the coil bind dimension, and perfectly fine to use in our situation. But we had 2" for rebound (droop). Installed spring height was 10", if we drop the suspension 2" we have 12". . .right at the free length of our spring. Any further and we run the chance that the spring will fall off the spring perch if we lift the car off the ground.

Both examples work. . .they hold the car up. But typically the 200# spring provides a much more supple ride quality than the 400# spring.

For ride quality a lighter spring rate with more preload will provide a better ride. . .to some extent. If you get the spring rate too light you could bottom out, resulting in worse ride quality. Let's say you hit that pothole Don is talking about. If the spring rate is too light, the force of the wheel/tire compressing the spring will "blow through" the spring rate allowing the shock to bottom, thereby transferring all that force into the chassis, and eventually your butt.

[dhutton]

For ride quality a lighter spring rate with more preload will provide a better ride. . .to some extent. If you get the spring rate too light you could bottom out, resulting in worse ride quality. Let's say you hit that pothole Don is talking about. If the spring rate is too light, the force of the wheel/tire compressing the spring will "blow through" the spring rate allowing the shock to bottom, thereby transferring all that force into the chassis, and eventually your butt.[/QUOTE]

This is what I was talking about but when I refer to preload (probably incorrectly) I mean preload on the fully extended shock. In my experience if the spring is significantly compressed when the shock is fully extended ride quality sucks. I prefer to minimize this with a stiffer spring. I find this to be a better compromise for street driving.

Looking forward to your recommendations to solve the OP’s problem.

Thanks for the detailed response,
Don

[marolf101x]

Don, you are correct, a stiffer spring would be required in your example.
Just to clarify, what happened in your example is that the spring was so light enough preload was required to cause the spring to reach coil bind before the shock bottomed out. Whatever spring rate is selected, one must make sure the compressed and extended lengths are appropriate for the application based on weight (load), installed height, spring free length, and required travel.
Make sense?

As soon as we have more info on the OP's set up I'll be able to dig a little deeper.
Just thought this was as good a place as any to quickly discuss linear rate coil springs a bit.

[TBART70]

Single adjustable RideTech all around the car. will post pics tonight.

Thanks for the help

[TBART70]

146854

146855

146856

146857

[TBART70]

And to answer the question of why I need to have the ride height that high, it is not the rear clearance that is the issue. It is the front, the headers hang way too low to lower the car. I could probably drop it down a half inch in the rear.

[dontlifttoshift]

Britt will want to know, and so do I. What is the extended length of your shocks or what part number do you have?

What is the center to center measurement of the shock at ride height?

What is the spring height at ride height?

[dhutton]

Curious to know if you ever lowered the car to make the lower bar parallel to the ground to see if it impacted the wheel hop....

Don

[TBART70]

24159901

[TBART70]

The car was slightly lower, I raised it up about an inch. The wheel hop got worse when I raised it up. If I get a clear day I will try softest shock setting, and then I will lower the car and see how it is.

[dhutton]

Left spring appears to be more compressed than the right based on the adjuster nut position on the shock body.

Can’t wait to hear what Andrew’s experts say....

Don

[TBART70]

Yes, forgot about that. Car sits even.

[dhutton]

Is there a similar offset on the front shock adjuster nuts?

Don

[TBART70]

Is there a similar offset on the front shock adjuster nuts?

Don

fronts are equal

[TBART70]

Britt will want to know, and so do I. What is the extended length of your shocks or what part number do you have?



What is the center to center measurement of the shock at ride height?

What is the spring height at ride height?

P#24159901

center to center is around 15.5 inch

spring on left side is 8.5 inch right is 9.25 inch at ride height.

just a quick measurement, had to crawl under the car to get it. I will jack it up and get exact tomorrow night if needed.

this scaling of the car was with me in it, 1 inch lower than it is now.

146858

[dhutton]

Your shock has an extended length of 16.4”. You’ve only got around .9” of rebound at ride height.

Don

[TBART70]

crap

[marolf101x]

Those shocks should be roughly 14.5" between mounting bolts at ride height. So you are an inch too high, as you've noted.
It's not terribly uncommon to hear about altered ride height based on exhaust clearance. Unfortunately the suspension is designed to work best in one spot. Fortunately changing exhaust is a lot less expensive than modifying the suspension.

The uneven preload required to reach an even height has me a bit concerned.
Let's run some numbers quick. . .you stated, "spring on left side is 8.5 inch right is 9.25 inch at ride height."
Both springs are 12" free length, 200# rate.
Left Rear; preloaded 3.5", so it's holding up 700lbs.
Right Rear; preloaded 2.75", so it's holding up 550lbs.
These should be closer. That tells me something is not square or something is binding. . .neither of which will help with the wheel hop issue.

If you were to remove the rear coil overs all together and stroke the suspension does it move easily and evenly? If so, something might not be square. If not, there's a bind.

Though I'm not intimately familiar with the AM 4-link, it is still a 4-link and general rules apply. I can say the only way to help the wheel hop is to lower the rear to the designed ride height.

Our HQ shocks are single adjustable, meaning they only change rebound. So if you have them cranked full stiff once the weight transfers to the rear and the shocks are compressed the rebound is trying to keep them compressed.
We run very little compression valving, as we feel compression just adds spring rate for a short amount of time, thereby making ride quality suffer on quick bumps (impact harshness).
If I were tuning the shocks I'd start around 12 clicks out from full stiff (full stiff is knob turned all the way clockwise). This is a pretty good compromise, and a general setting for rear 4-links, and we can tune from there.

[TBART70]

Those shocks should be roughly 14.5" between mounting bolts at ride height. So you are an inch too high, as you've noted.
It's not terribly uncommon to hear about altered ride height based on exhaust clearance. Unfortunately the suspension is designed to work best in one spot. Fortunately changing exhaust is a lot less expensive than modifying the suspension.

The uneven preload required to reach an even height has me a bit concerned.
Let's run some numbers quick. . .you stated, "spring on left side is 8.5 inch right is 9.25 inch at ride height."
Both springs are 12" free length, 200# rate.
Left Rear; preloaded 3.5", so it's holding up 700lbs.
Right Rear; preloaded 2.75", so it's holding up 550lbs.
These should be closer. That tells me something is not square or something is binding. . .neither of which will help with the wheel hop issue.

If you were to remove the rear coil overs all together and stroke the suspension does it move easily and evenly? If so, something might not be square. If not, there's a bind.

Though I'm not intimately familiar with the AM 4-link, it is still a 4-link and general rules apply. I can say the only way to help the wheel hop is to lower the rear to the designed ride height.

Our HQ shocks are single adjustable, meaning they only change rebound. So if you have them cranked full stiff once the weight transfers to the rear and the shocks are compressed the rebound is trying to keep them compressed.
We run very little compression valving, as we feel compression just adds spring rate for a short amount of time, thereby making ride quality suffer on quick bumps (impact harshness).
If I were tuning the shocks I'd start around 12 clicks out from full stiff (full stiff is knob turned all the way clockwise). This is a pretty good compromise, and a general setting for rear 4-links, and we can tune from there.

Thanks for putting in the time to help. I will mess with it this weekend, I will pull the coil overs and articulate the suspension and see what happens.

Springs are 225 lb/in.

Would double adjustable help? I can go down maybe half an inch lower , should I change to a different length shock?

I can easily move the lower bar mounting points, the uppers would take a lot more work. I know moving the lowers and not the uppers change the geometry, but I would sacrifice some handling for no wheel hop. It is a street car that I just want to drive not race. Let me know what you think, and thank you again.

[marolf101x]

Sorry for the rate screw up. . .here's the corrected info:
Both springs are 12" free length, 225# rate.
Left Rear; preloaded 3.5", so it's holding up 787.5lbs.
Right Rear; preloaded 2.75", so it's holding up 618.75lbs.

Adjustable shocks:
I know you can accomplish drag racing type launches without wheel hop using the single adjustable shocks you have if the 4-link geometry is correct. . .we do it all the time with our stuff.
I feel compression is the springs job. . .the suspension compresses, the spring absorbs that force.
However, rebound is used to slow the extension of the suspension.

If you feel you need compression adjustment, please use a quality shock absorber. Most inexpensive double adjust shocks have the knobs at the bottom of the shock body. This is a twin tube shock, and not nearly as capable as the monotube shocks you have now.

[TBART70]

Pulled the coilovers, moved the suspension up and down. No bind, goes up and down evenly. Although the upper bushings on the rear are deforming and coming apart. I ordered the new bars with the johnny joints. I will have to modify the brackets a little to fit them.

Shocks were set 5 clicks back from full stiff. I will lower the car as much as I can, replace the bars, soften the shock setting, and see how it is.

[TBART70]

What came first, wheel hop then damaged bushings, or damaged bushings then wheel hop?

147467
147466
New arms with Johnny joints

[andrewb70]

I say the bushings got damaged because they are poly, and thus weren't designed to articulate. I bet the suspension moves a lot smoother now with the johnny joints...

Andrew

[TBART70]

I say the bushings got damaged because they are poly, and thus weren't designed to articulate. I bet the suspension moves a lot smoother now with the johnny joints...

Andrew

It seems to be smooth. Lowered it half inch, shocks set 12 clicks back from full stiff. I put the lower shock mount in the middle hole and used the spring to adjust ride height. Left and right spring preload is still different. Car is level. Frame was jig welded from morrison. Not sure what is going on there.

Drove it today, seems better. Tires are definitely hard, older than I thought.

[Jon Clough]

Interesting thread and responses. I bought a AM rear triangulated 4 bar back in 2011 and am finally getting to the point (just retired) where I am starting the installation. It would be great to talk with you about the challenges you faced with its installation.
I need to go check out the parts they sold me now. Hope you get it sorted out.

[TBART70]

Did you buy a welded frame clip? I am curious what you have.

[TBART70]

Drove it today, still hopped. Dropped pressure to 30 psi. Should I make the shocks softer?

[Rod]

Drove it today, still hopped. Dropped pressure to 30 psi. Should I make the shocks softer?

it will wheel hop because no geometry points were changed, lower links need to be parallel with the ground (level) at your desired ride height...that's a start

[TBART70]

152959
Should I put in a stiffer spring?
Pic of front coilovers. Not much height adjustment left.

Also still need to work on the rear.

[Rod]

152959
Should I put in a stiffer spring?
Pic of front coilovers. Not much height adjustment left.

Also still need to work on the rear.

spring doesn't look compressed to much I think you need a longer spring, what do you have now?

[TheJDMan]

152959
Should I put in a stiffer spring?
Pic of front coilovers. Not much height adjustment left.

Also still need to work on the rear.

Was that photo taken with the weight on or off the suspension? Either way, I agree with Rod that you likely need a longer spring.

[andrewb70]

Measure the total shock height with the suspension fully loaded. This will tell you how much compression and rebound travel you have with the shock.

Andrew

[Josh@Ridetech]

Do you have the part numbers of what front coilover parts you're using?

[TBART70]

14 inch center to center loaded. They came with the speedtech front suspension. I can't find invoice. I believe 10 inch spring.

[Josh@Ridetech]

14 inch center to center loaded. They came with the speedtech front suspension. I can't find invoice. I believe 10 inch spring.

If that's the perfect mid-travel length, you have a 5.2" stroke shock. You can verify that for sure by jacking the car up and letting the shock fully extend (you should see ~16.5"). That shock typically uses a 12" free length spring but you could run a drop cap, to help push the spring farther down on the shock, with a 10" spring if you aren't already. The way you have it set up now will work fine as long as you're driving the shock at mid-travel but it is always nice to have some adjustment. Does the upper retainer look like this one in the link below?

https://www.ridetech.com/products/coil-overs/universal-coil-overs/dropped-spring-retainer-cup/

[TBART70]

Sorry got side tracked for a few months.

I think I have the standard caps on the front coils.

Have not driven it in two months.

I want to start to figure some of this stuff out, so I can work on it over the winter.

Thanks for the help.

[marolf101x]

Just to clarify this a bit as I seem to get a lot of people freaking out when they get near the ends of the threads. . .
If you notice the threads do not go all the way to the top of the shock. This was done for two purposes:
1-we need a smooth area to seal the air spring when the shock is used as a Shockwave (Shockwave and coil over use the same shock)
2-this allowed me to place the "stopping point" of the threads wherever I wanted, so I chose a location that would not allow the spring to coil bind

Hyperco springs typically reach coil bind when they are compressed to 80% of free length. So I looked at the heaviest spring I thought a street car would use, looked at the length, took 80% of free length and set the thread stopping point a little lower than than.

What does this mean?
-If you have the shock set near mid travel at ride height,
-and the spring is holding the car at the desired ride height,
-and you have standard "flat" caps, (the drop caps can make the spring bind, but typically not an issue)
-the coil spring will not bind.
-so it's ok and will work fine. . . . It may look a little strange, but it's perfectly fine.

Changing to a longer spring of the same rate is only aesthetic. . .the rate is still the same, the preload (if any) will still be the same. . .everything is the same except you covered more of the shock body.

Make sense?

[TBART70]

Yes it makes sense, thanks.

Question, how would you know if the car needed heavier springs, I think I have 650 lb springs. Aluminum head BBC Bowtie block. A lot of stuff, A/C, Vacuum pump, Heavy hood. Just thinking out loud.

Car drove decent today, although I did not launch it to see about wheel hop. It handles pretty well. I know it could be better if I lower the car.

[79T/Aman]

Yes it makes sense, thanks.

Question, how would you know if the car needed heavier springs, I think I have 650 lb springs. Aluminum head BBC Bowtie block. A lot of stuff, A/C, Vacuum pump, Heavy hood. Just thinking out loud.

Car drove decent today, although I did not launch it to see about wheel hop. It handles pretty well. I know it could be better if I lower the car.

My 2 cents, lowering the car will not necessarily make it handle better, lower center of gravity may help but the changes in roll centers and roll couple that come with it could far outweigh the benefit of lowering the car another fraction of an inch, this is not to say that lowering it further may not improve the geometry (highly unlikely) but without knowing what your starting point is and what the geometry of the suspension is it's just for esthetics.

[marolf101x]

How do you know if you need new springs?
If the adjuster is topped out and the car is still not at ride height.
If you drive the car and it bottoms out all the time.
Or if you want a different spring frequency, or wheel rate.

[TBART70]

My 2 cents, lowering the car will not necessarily make it handle better, lower center of gravity may help but the changes in roll centers and roll couple that come with it could far outweigh the benefit of lowering the car another fraction of an inch, this is not to say that lowering it further may not improve the geometry (highly unlikely) but without knowing what your starting point is and what the geometry of the suspension is it's just for esthetics.

I understand what you mean. I was referring mostly to the rear suspension, lowering the rear of the car would put the bars where they were designed to be. (Is that ideal? I don't know, Art Morrison designed it). As for the front, I don't know what optimal ride height should be, I never asked Speed Tech. That being said, the front is where it is because of header to ground clearance and the rear is set so it is level or slightly higher than the front( purely aesthetic ). Although I think I could only go down an inch in the front anyway, disregarding the header issue. The rear I think would need to go down at least an inch and a half to two inches to make the lower rear bar level with the ground. So back to the drawing board and decide how I am going to go about it and what to do about the headers.

[TBART70]

I want to start to address this. I might get a chance to drive it this weekend to see how it is before I make any changes, or take things apart. I will take out the front coilovers, I will measure before I take them out at ride height. Then when they are out. I still think the front needs more spring. Would another 50 lb. spring make that much of a difference? Based on the scaled weights, do you think it needs more front spring?

The rear, I think I am going to make new lower control arm front brackets, to get the bars more parallel to the ground. Again I know not doing the uppers is not ideal so........

I am also going to look at the headers and see what I can do, no one makes a set with better ground clearance, other than going custom or building them myself.

Does anyone know of someone in Northern NJ that can make a set of headers?

I would even go with mid length if I could I could find a set that has 2" or even 2 1/8" primary. I have not found any yet.

Again thanks for the input. Hopefully it helps me and also helps others before and after they start there projects.

[TBART70]

I have a 10" front spring at 600 lb./ in. rate. Should I go 650 or 700.? What about 12"? Front needs to come up a bit, and it did seem to want to bottom out.

I started modifying rear suspension, I started to drop the front of the lower bars.

[TBART70]

159972
Could not get grease in the Johnny joints. They were deflected even after only a few miles. Ordered the R joints instead and now will have easier adjustment. I dropped the front of the rear lower bars, they are now level with the ground at ride height.

[D-Man]

Any improvement?

[TBART70]

Any improvement?

The roads around here look like the salt flats at the moment.
I put heavier springs in the front along with what I did in the rear. It is on the ground waiting for better weather and down to my alignment machine.

[TBART70]

Drove it today after I aligned it. Still hops. Front feels good with the heavier springs, less dive under braking. No bottoming out. Shocks are set at front 10 turns from full soft, rear are at 8 from full soft. I guess the tires are really not helping the wheel hop.

[TBART70]

Did not drive much this season, still an issue, my buddy said when I took off the rear of the car really squatted substantially. This winter I want to address the headers and the suspension. I am going to look at moving the upper control arm rear mounts up the same amount I lowered the front mounts of the lowers. Might get new tires but did not want to until I get new bigger rims, but......

[TBART70]

Hello again.
Happy Holidays.
Hopefully everyone is doing well.

Finally after dealing with a bunch of life stuff I had time to mess with the car.

I put in a different trans in and raised it up to get the driveline angles to where they need to be, shorty headers to gain ground clearance. Modified the front wheel wells so tires don't hit now that car is lowered.

I was hoping someone could take my measurements and plot out the suspension.

Will it be better to raise the upper CA rear brackets, or lower the upper CA front brackets.

I appreciate any and all help.


At the ride height on the ground the lowers are pointing down to front of car. The car is as low as I can go.

Car is on jackstands

Upper bar length is 12.75" 1.4* angled up to the car front.

Lower bar length is 20.75" 3.5* down to front of car.


Upper control arm front point from ground 24 1/2"
Upper control arm rear point from ground 24 3/8"

Lower control arm front point from ground 16 5/8"
Lower control arm rear point from ground 18 1/8"

I can raise the rear of the car probably half an inch to make the lower bars even with the ground if it is necessary. Which in turn makes the uppers worse.


Let me know what you think.

thanks
-Tom