A guy, a garage, a first gen Firebird… PICTURES

[gator68428]

I've been meaning to start a project thread for a while now... So, here it is.


When I was 15, circa 1998, with the help of my Dad, we did a partial resto on the car (I did most all the work after Dad would first demo any new skill required at each step: did quarter panels, door skins, trunklid, body work and Dad shot the paint). I drove the car through high school and did minor mods here and there and hit the drag strip on occasion. Since about 2006, the focus of the car was performance mainly in the form of overall handling. My vision then was to modernize the dated handling characteristics of the straight-line 60’s muscle car that it was. The goal hasn’t changed and I want to maximize everything I can with the car while preserving streetability and do it my way with a Pontiac power plant.


This car is my pride and joy. My older brother bought it as a parts car for his 67 Firebird back in the early 90’s, mainly for its pristine original 400 hood. This was all before I could even drive. In seventh grade I wrote in a journal entry for school about my dream car. A 68 Firebird 400 hardtop modified with Edelbrock aluminum heads a roller cam and a 5 speed. There was nothing better to me than that first gen Firebird body style. I grew up drooling over that car. Despite its rusted out quarter panels and multi colored collection of body parts. I did not care, that was my dream car. Still is to this day.


To my utter surprise, my brother gave me the car when I turned 15. I still to this day have never found a way to properly thank him for that. I am 33 now and still work on the car any chance I can get.


Most of the build has already been completed and there have been several iterations along the way. I will try to tell the build story in order through the present. And then I will add to it as I go. Because as we all know, and as my wife has pointed out: “it never ends.”


7/27/2017 EDIT--more info**
In 1999 the car still had its original 400 Pontiac engine and TH-400 trans. Shortly thereafter (early 2000's I believe) we built the 428 from a 68 Bonneville. Keeping the original engine in storage. The 428 block and crank was actually given to my Dad from a friend of his that knew my father had three sons that were into cars/Pontiacs as much as he was--my Dad still has his Verdoro Green 69 GTO that he bought brand new--mint condition still with 68k original miles. We had basic machine work done--the 428 cylinder bores only needed honing--stock rods, standard TRW pistons and rebuild kit--had the bottom end balanced. With the help of my brother and father, we assembled the engine ourselves and got going. At that time it had lightly self ported #16 heads, E-brock RPM intake, 750 Qjet, headers, 2.5" exhaust and BorgWarner T10 4-speed. Was a pretty killer daily driver in high school. In those early days I took it to the Gaineville Raceway on occasion and its best times were 13.0s at 108mph.

Other iterations between 2000 and 2006 include swapping in a T-5 trans in place of the T-10. It sure was nice to have an overdrive in my daily driver muscle car, but I broke third gear in it--twice. After the T5, was the TH-400 that I rebuilt and put back in. Rebuilt it with a B&M shift kit--by myself without Dad's help at the ripe age of 17--and it actually worked first try!--(followed those B&M directions to a T) with 2400 rpm stall converter.

Another notable event was that, after high school, I tried to take the car to college in the Fall of 2002, where I lived on campus and the car would spend nearly all of its time in a University parking garage. That lasted two days and the FIRST weekend, the car got broken into and hotwired. The only thing that saved it was a preventative measure my Dad had me do... Phew! Disaster averted and plans for having the car up there quickly modified. Other than the ignition, the car was undamaged, and they actually left umbrellas in the back seat--must have been raining when they came steal my car. I hot wired it like they did, undid the preventative measure and promptly drove it home, to stay. My college car became a 71 VW Squareback lent to me by my parents for the next few years until I got a beater car.
**

Currently building the car for Optima Ultimate Streetcar Challenge. I’m registered for the NOLA 2017 event. Here goes Nothin!!

First: pictures from the past.
1999

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2006 Mods:
TCI Engineering 4 link
CPP big brake kit front and rear
Richmond 6 speed, Centerforce clutch
Mass-Flo EFI fuel injection
C6 wheels

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[raustinss]

welcome ...love the back story . Its always nice to hear the how's and the why's . Hope you keep us updated and get your dream car finished ...cheers Ryan

[Jk918]

Looking forward to this one, it hits home with me as in 1998 I got my first car a 67 firebird, drove and worked on it through high school. Still have it, wrench on man!

[Josue]

Awesome!!! I've seen you around here for a while now, and have admired your car the whole time.

I didn't know we were the same age, and our stories are fairly similar! I also got my '68 in the mid-90's, before I could even drive. lol Check out my build thread in my sig when you get time.

[gator68428]

Thanks for the kind words. Josh yes I remember seeing some of your updates a while back--Nice ride yourself. I tune in to the forum off and on with the seasons. Being in FL and now that I have a family, I seem to be doing most my work on the car and track/autoX events in the winter/spring. Past few years, the checkbook also has been needing a break during the summer/fall.

Here are some more pics from 2006/2007. Up next will be my experience with the Mass Flo EFI system, stay tuned.

C6 replica wheels and tire combo at the time was 18s on all 4, 9.5"wide rear, 8.5"wide front, 275/245 (F/R) Falken something. Went to a local wheel shop and they setup the combo. Needed 2" adapter/spacers on all fours. Turns out lug pattern same for newer Vettes and vintage GM muscle cars, 5x4.75".

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[Josue]

Yea, same here during the winter months, not much getting done, so no desire/need to stop here as much.

Interested to hear your experience with the EFI. It's on my bucket list, but my motor is so old, leaky, and worn out, that I feel like it'd be polishing a turd to put EFI on it now, without at least rebuilding the 350 for the time being. But at that point, why put the work into a 350, when a 455 is the goal. But, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole we go with the expense! If I knew I could have the 350 rebuilt for dirt dirt cheap, I'd just do that, but who knows what kind of can of worms would open up there.

[JohnJ@RideTech]

Nice ride man! What are your plans for it next?

[Bennsb]

Outstanding! Funny how many similar stories there are with a first gen Firebird. I've looked at everyone I've come across since the early 90's. I got to sit in a Countach (same exact one as the poster above my bed in 3rd grade) and a Pantera DeTomaso both owned by my friend's uncle and the 67/68 Firebird is still my favorite car of all time. Those laps on YouTube are insane! Great job on the car and maintaining it! Just curious if it is the same one I test drove in Gainesville that had a slipping transmission in the early/mid 90's when I started my search for my dream car. I got a late start, too busy tooling around on V8 S10s. Better late than never!

[Motown 454]

It looks like you have yourself a nice car there. Good looking too! Welcome!

[expensivehobby22]

Very similar story with my 68 Firebird as well. Keep up the good work.

[gator68428]

Outstanding! Funny how many similar stories there are with a first gen Firebird. I've looked at everyone I've come across since the early 90's. I got to sit in a Countach (same exact one as the poster above my bed in 3rd grade) and a Pantera DeTomaso both owned by my friend's uncle and the 67/68 Firebird is still my favorite car of all time. Those laps on YouTube are insane! Great job on the car and maintaining it! Just curious if it is the same one I test drove in Gainesville that had a slipping transmission in the early/mid 90's when I started my search for my dream car. I got a late start, too busy tooling around on V8 S10s. Better late than never!


My older brother was at UF in the 90's and had the car around town for a little while then--maybe you did! I will have to ask him. And it did have an automatic transmission (TH400). Also had its original 400 motor--it is an original 400 car. Verdoro green with a mishmash of various colored body parts, rusted quarters and lower doors and a white roof (color beneath ripped off vinyl top). I'm still trying to find an old picture or two of the car from then but can't seem to unfortunately.


Yes lots of passion in the Firebirds. Unlike those dime a dozen Camaros ;-)

[gator68428]

Note: This entire post details modifications that were done in 2008-2010. I'm documenting past events until current and then will try to keep the project current after that.

In 2006/2007 I purchased the Mass Flo EFI system for the 428 Pontiac engine. MAF based multiport (i.e. eight injectors) EFI system for early carb V8 engines. The system came with everything I needed to convert over from a carb and was straightforward to install. It included the computer, wiring harness, all sensors, distributor (custom PIP distributor for Pontiac from Mallory), Edelbrock Torker II manifold for multi-port EFI, 4-barrel 1000cfm throttle body and fuel system. And the engine fired right up and and ran smoothly.

BUT, it was weak on power under wide open throttle (wot). Many back and forths over the phone with MassFlo and checked the timing, MAF sensor position etc. Yes I had driven it many miles so the computer could "learn" the engine.

For almost a year or so I had much weaker engine than I had before EFI... But I had invested a large amount of $$ so i wasn't giving up.

In 2007 sometime I bought a wideband (WB) O2 sensor and controller (Zeitronix). Instantly found that the air fuel ratio (AFR) was at 15+ at wot! Way too lean. Reported back to Mass flo and of course they give me the impression it's something I'm missing and that the system was not advertised to make more power (no argument there). But he did point me to where I could purchase hardware to reprogram the chip myself and informed me on what to get.

So I did and I started tinkering with learning how to tune. Fortunately my WB had a data logging feature which proved invaluable in this process. Finally made progress and brought the AFR down to below 13 under wot and finally had most of my power back.

I say "most" because the drag strip said so. I had previously had TH400 with shift kit and same engine (stock bottom end 428 with a 244/244 @.050 cam with self ported heads and 9.5:1 comp, Edelbrock RPM manifold) and turned high 12's at 109mph. Now with a manual tranny and same engine and cam (except now with EFI and a Torker II manifold) I was turning the same 109mph. Should have been higher going from auto to manual if power was the same.

The Massflo kit included an 85mm MAF sensor that just looks restrictive sitting on top of the 4x1.75" throttle body. So i suspected that along with the possibly the manifold causing the reduced power. So, next I endeavored to add injector bungs myself to the Performer RPM manifold (that I knew was a manifold the engine combo liked) and also fabricate a cold air intake so I could replace the 85mm MAF with a 100mm MAF. One of the selling points of the 85mm MAF is that it sits inside of a conventional carb style air cleaner--a benefit I was willing to forgo since I wasn't willing to sacrifice power. Since I wanted to go bigger, the only option was a slot/tube style MAF. So i found one for a good price and bought it, the PowrMAF--was told by MassFlo that I had to pay triple the price for one of their smaller 90mm slot sensors and that the PowrMAF WOULD NOT WORK. I was done with Massflo and wanted to keep with doing it MY way so I went for it anyways.

The computer in the Massflo kit was from an early 90s Ford Mustang (Ford refers to the ECU as an EEC). The Fords use a voltage signal for the MAF where GM used a frequency signal. Turns out the 85mm sensor MassFLo was using was a GM sensor, and they (or someone else) added a frequency converter that converted the frequency signal to a voltage signal for the Ford EEC (I know because I put it under a function generator and an oscilloscope). So my job was already done--I re-wired the frequency converter to the 100mm MAF sensor and wired the output to the EEC. Once operational I tuned the new MAF transfer function by standard methods involving the WB data.

Below are pics of the MAF sensors, my intake manifold work, my cold air intake work and dyno results. Enjoy.
(First pic is from the net and shows a direct view looking down both sensors, because I hadn't taken that angle, rest of the pics are mine)

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Cold air from scratch with fiberglass and chicken wire and a modified aircleaner base. Tubing is 100mm ID (I used 100mm OD aluminum intake tubing to cast the fiberglass around)

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Torker II manifold still in place

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I added a 10deg angle from vertical so the injector points down towards the valve more.

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Finished manifold with bungs welded in. I also machined off all the unnecessary exhaust crossover portions of the manifold. Pic was taken before cutting down the dual plane separator.

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Notice the Performer RPM manifold is now in place.

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These dyno results are on a chassis dyno with the new Performer RPM manifold in place. The EEC is using the 100mm MAF sensor in both runs. The run including the 85mm MAF is with it mounted in place on top of the throttle body inside of the carb hat--causing a loss of 8HP at peak power. A modest but no insignificant power gain--one that will only grow with engine power.

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[FireBeater]

I like your homemade air duct. Very creative and it looks good too!

[rickpaw]

Nice write up Mitch.

Tu

[gator68428]

In 2011 I started on adding C6 ZR1 mufflers.

The benefit of these mufflers is they are nice and quite when you want them to be, and then nearly wide open when you want performance. A good balance. The loud mufflers all the time gets old pretty quick if you actually want to drive the car.


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[gator68428]

Then in 2013 it was time for the TCI Engineering IFS front subframe.

And to do the exhaust a second time.

Prior to taking the engine out, I took the trans out first because we (my Dad first suggested it actually) suspected a size-able oil leak out of the rear main seal or oil pan gasket. Once the trans was out we found that it indeed was the rear main seal. The cause was me plugging the pcv valve in ignorance. Reason I plugged it was because the car sucked up a 1/4 qt of oil on its first AutoX on the left-hander turn-around. Stock pcv valve pulls from the rightside of the valley. High rpm's coming into and then through a left hand corner, oil up top sloshes over to the right and gets sucked up. After I plugged the pcv valve it didn't blow a cloud of smoke on the left hander anymore! But oil started gradually oozing out of everywhere else and it blew the rear main seal! After that I rethought my strategy and did one better and eventually got the M/E Wagner PCV valve and pulled from a valve cover.

Step 1. Disassembly and accumulation of new parts.

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[gator68428]

This post details work that was done in 2013.

While the engine was out I added some go-fast top end parts:
-Kauffman Racing d-port aluminum heads, ported to 310cfm
-236/242 @.050 hyd roller Comp Cams cam, 1.65 roller rockers
-gasket match Ebrock RPM custom (self modified) EFI intake manifold
-Viton rear main seal (TIP)

Also added:
-Hydraulic clutch from American Powertrain.
-M/E Wagner adjustable PCV valve
-Fiberglass hood from Glasstek.

TCI Engineering Front IFS installation modifications for 68 Firebird with Pontiac 326-455 motor

1. Motor mount location:
Moved motor mount location to the rear ~4.25” and down ~1.25.” This DOES NOT move the engine back--it keeps the engine in the stock location and makes up for the fact that Pontiacs have motor mounts further back on the block than Chevys. Pontiac engines 326-455 all have the same size block with the motor mount in the center (wrt front to back) on Pre 70 (I believe) blocks. Later model Pontiac blocks had another set of motor mount holes towards the front of the block like the chevys. To accomodate this different mount position from Chevy, extension platforms were fabricated from center rectangular tube (pics below) so the mount elbow could moved rearward. Also, extension plates on vertical side plates for upper mount elbow connection were fabricated as shown in pictures below.

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Also FYI, the stock 68 Firebird motor mount requires a different type of connection to frame than that provided: The mount looks like this: http://www.classicindustries.com/firebird/parts/t82254.html
However, 68-73 GTO uses a similar style motor mount to connect to that provided (i.e. with the horizontal long bolt), but the width of the metal cutout in motor mount along the top edge of the rubber pad is different. Trimming of some metal on the motor mount was required. And bushings were required on each side of the bolt tube on the frame (didn’t take up-close pics of final motor mount mods however… but did include marked-up pic which was found online, below) to fill the free space (bolt tube on frame not long enough).


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For final placement of elbow frame tubes, with them bolted to the motor mounts (completely detached from subframe); and motor mounts bolted to the engine, the engine was positioned in its final location. This ensured exact position of elbows WRT the engine; ensuring motor mount alignment with subframe elbows will enable the long bolt to catch the threads. This was done with transmission and cross-member & mount in place (bolts in). Then the frame elbow tubes were tacked in place after adding proper spacers to get placement right/fill any empty space between elbows and subframe brackets/sideplates; (metal spacers—also tacked in place).

After final engine placement was done and elbow tubes and spacers were fully welded, the bushings were sized and cut to fill the space between bolt tube on frame and motor mount ears (bushing locations shown in pic above). Cutting bushings at this stage allows some fine tuning of engine front to back positioning.

About Pontiac motor mount holes in the block: Pre 1970ish (not sure of exact cut-off year) Pontiac V8s, 326-455, had only two blind threaded holes for the motor mount (as shown in the image above; leftside bolthead not visible however, but you get the point). The holes allow attachment of either style of motor mount found on the A-body (shown above) or that of the Firebird (link included earlier, above). After 1970…ish, Pontiac went to a three bolt motor mount. The three holes for this new mount did not share the earlier two bolt locations and called for mounting style completely separate from either of the two mentioned. However, Pontiac did still include the two earlier motor mount holes, which means they came with 5 blind threaded holes. Therefore, most all Pontiac motors should have accommodations for the two-bolt motor mount; making a design that works with that type of mount the most universally applicable to Pontiac engines.
 
Pics below shows extension plates and support beam added for relocating mount tube elbows at top connection point. Trimmed right motor mount also visible in below picture.

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2. Header modification:
Headers for 67-69 Firebird 400 did not have a prayer of fitting; there were multiple places of interference: main frame rail, steering shaft, motor mount elbow tube, etc. The first gen Firebird motor mount supports are in the form of plates that extend from the front to the back allowing clearance for the headers to duck down outward of motor mounts (i.e. at mid-engine). However 68-73 GTOs (and 2nd gen Firebirds) have frame outward of motor mount at mid-engine (similar to where I placed the elbow tube), and therefore the headers duck down further back to clear. The headers that work are Hooker 4108HKR (for 68-73 GTO/Lemans, didn’t try 2nd gen Firebird headers). Only requires modification to one primary tube (#5) as shown below. Tube was in the way of the steering column at the rag-joint connection location. BTW I used the stock steering column with joint adapter: had to move the column 1.25” into car (along column axis) to free up room for the joint from the frame tube. However, though this made it fit, I can now see the stock column was not designed for lateral forces from the angled steering shaft and moves slightly as a result (chatters slightly at certain speeds), but otherwise still works fine. Will consider upgrading to the Ididit column recommended by TCI at some point. Header modification validated: no contact with any frame or steering components after driving.

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3. Oil pan dimpling: Steering rack interfered with Pontiac oil pan. Dimpling solved the issue. There is plenty of room inside engine behind dimple for clearance.


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4. Use of an aftermarket (Ididit) steering column is recommended for the TCI Eng front subframe because the position of the ragjoint of the stock column interferes with the subframe. However, I was able to redrill holes in the mounting bracket under the dash to move the entire steering column back about 1 inch, thereby fixing the interference problem.

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[gator68428]

Spilling into 2014 to finish the job on the front subframe and associated mods.

Finishing doing the exhaust for the 2nd time. Added flowmaster single chamber mufflers inline before C6ZR1 mufflers. Didn't like the sound when they were wide open. Got the sound back that i liked without hurting perf much.

And got rid of the braided ss flex lines in favor of SS hardline from Inline Tube (great resource). 1/2 supply. 3/8 return.

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[gator68428]

Later in early 2014.

Re-did carb hat. Took some unnecessary height out of it.

Visited the drag strip got 2 runs. 2nd run got wheel hop and broke rear end gear. Decent time but realized after with the gearing I had, I hit the rev limiter at 116 and cut-on at 114 mph. I bounced off rev limiter at the traps and not sure if it was before or after the finish--and therefore not sure if mph would have been higher.

While repairing rear end, also went ahead and upgraded the TCI Engineering 4-link to a torque arm.
Did fitment and then got the parts powdercoated.
Went with a 3.08 rear gear instead of the 3.23s (that broke, and were pretty old and whiny--may have had case hardening worn off teeth--needed to change gears anyways to increase upper mph limit in 4th gear)

Did the exhaust for the third time.

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[andrewb70]

Nice build...When did the TKO get installed? I see a Richmond 6 speed in all the pictures :-)

Andrew

[gator68428]

Nice build...When did the TKO get installed? I see a Richmond 6 speed in all the pictures :-)

Andrew

After the Richmond broke ;-) Stay tuned. Still catching up on the past.
Just sold the Richmond for parts for $400 to a fellow P-T member. 3rd gear cannot buy anymore. Not sure if that price was too low, but it got it out my garage quick.

[gator68428]

Went to the Good Guys in Kissimmee FL in April of 2014. Had a good time. Got third in street machine.
Tires on the car at the time were 280 TW 245/40-18 on front and 285/35-18 RS3s on the rear.


https://youtu.be/hVARzMpRceU

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Almost forgot. Pics below were from an SCCA AutoX event at the Gainesville raceway practice road course earlier, in Feb of 2014, testing out the new front subframe (this was before the torque arm--same weekend as the drag strip where the rear gear broke--day prior luckily).

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[gator68428]

After the Saturday of the Good Guys event in 2014 I noticed a puddle of oil on the ground by the right rear tire on Sunday morning at the hotel. Turns out the wheel bearing and seal had inched their way out. In the hotel parking lot with a floor jack and a big flat head screwdriver, I pried/pressed the seal/bearing back in (as carefully as possible of course), and limped home. Not sure if it was the wrong wheel bearing or what, but the issue was that the axle was a little bent and the vibs (on highway and AutoX abuse) caused the bearing to inch out I suppose. So a new bearing, seal and axle, fixed that and I was back on the road for the Daytona SCCA event a few weeks later (May 2014). GM 8.5" 10 bolt (from 74 Nova/Ventura).

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Also added Hankook RS3s to the front (can see in lowest pic below)--275/35s. On 18x9.5 C6 replicas (from AFS).

Daytona SCCA event pics (cart track in the infield). Two day event. Practice sat (rained) and comp on Sunday (beautiful cool day--front came through)

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[gator68428]

Did another SCCA event in Brooksville, FL later in May of 2014.

Fuel starvation cropped up and realized that the motormounts were broken (gotta thank Dad again here for pointing this one out) and engine would rock when downshifting coming into a corner. The MAF connection actually kept detaching on the autoX course b/c the engine moved a little more than it should. The stock motor mounts back then only had a hard stop for Torque from the engine, but not the reverse direction (like when you let off the throttle at high rpms--under engine braking).

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Fuel starvation was caused by foam chunks. Foam was removed and mesh pre-filter added promptly thereafter.

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[gator68428]

Now we're into 2015.

Main battle with the car was fixing fuel slosh induced starvation, from a sideways mounted drag race fuel tank (meant for a carb), for my EFI system. Working in a vacuum and unaware of vaporworx I learned a few things the hard way and improved, but did not completely fix the issue. Went from needing to keep the tank 3/4 full, to needing the keep the tank over 1/2 full. A modest improvement.

First thing in the pics below is a homemade SS mesh filter added to tank pickup. Also visible in the pics is a custom made baffle that's held in place by two vertical SS threaded rods that replace two bolts in the cap flange. Threaded rods also helped with slump of the roof of the tank.

The next step to solving the slosh/starvation issue involved a 2L accumulator tank. But with only gravity feed and shared return vent to the main tank I quickly learned I couldn't keep accum tank full. At a track day I improved it somewhat by re-routing the return line to the accum tank (duh), which helped some, but not as much as I'd thought.

After the track day, where I was able to pilot one iteration of fix, I added a secondary fuel pump to continuously pump from the main tank to the accum tank. Main pump pulls from bottom of accum tank.

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[gator68428]

Also in 2015 did some dyno testing and tuning.

Added an H-pipe, that was worth a solid 5+ HP across the board.

Also did a comparison with the dual mode mufflers opened and closed.


https://youtu.be/BxnBhGMYBVs

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[gator68428]

Also in 2015, did a dyno comparison between the Firebird and G8 GXP (automatic).

Firebird was in 5th gear this time (drive gear in Richmond 6 speed). Previous plots were in fourth gear which lowered the speed and was good gear for tuning/optimization runs.

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[gator68428]

Did the Good Guys FL event again in 2015. Had a great time at the event and stayed at a ChampionsGate area resort--which was nice after the event each day (Fri and Sat)

Improved on my last years finish (3rd) and took second place this time (with a time of 31.017 in street machine). It was tight battle for second between myself and 2 others. Great memories from this weekend.


https://youtu.be/YpKRYboqarU

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[gator68428]

Did my first Track day in 2015. Also did some SCCA AutoX events and did some more track events too.


https://youtu.be/SSdYs0DtWpc


https://youtu.be/bsimAt6CQB0


https://youtu.be/FGQiZfdW6-4

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[gator68428]

2016 was a big year for the Firebird.

Did a track day at FIRM in Jan and broke third gear in the Richmond 6 speed during a second to third gear shift. Also flat-spotted a front tire--still had some brake bias issues to sort out.

Decided to go with a TKO 5 speed from Liberty's with the synchro upgrade. Took until April but got it ready in time for my first NASA weekend at Roebling Road.

2016 Mods:
-TKO600
-Quicktime bellhousing
-RobMc offset dowel pins (tranny never slid in so easy--first time checking b/h alignment--great directions on this site BTW)
-Aluminum flywheel (American Powertrain)
-Re-used my Centerforce clutch
-Custom hitch
-Kore3 C6Z front brake kit (reused CPP hubs--for now, stay tuned for 2017 when one breaks)
-Spectre front spoiler
-Wilwood master cylinder
-3.42 rear gears for new tranny
-MaxJax lift install in the garage
-3.5" driveshaft (parts from Dennys Driveshafts, assembled and balanced at Driveline Services Jax)
-rear minitub (reused metal that was there and added a strip of metal in the gap)
-C5 wagon wheels for second of scrub Hoosiers for trackdays

Also took the G8 to the track day at FIRM in Jan 2016. My bro was driving the G8. Pretty good bone stock, with 7 yr old bald, dried-out, run flats... (G8 needed new tires after this event too)
2nd pic below is the flat spot on Firebird front right tire.


https://youtu.be/vPkQiFvl804

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[gator68428]

2016 mods

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[130fe]

I like the hitch/tow hook mod you did, not much room in our cars to haul stuff LOL Hope to meet up with you sometime in the area at one of the events.

[gator68428]

I like the hitch/tow hook mod you did, not much room in our cars to haul stuff LOL Hope to meet up with you sometime in the area at one of the events.

Thanks. For sure man, you ever do any of the SCCA events in the area? I'm hoping to do some more later in the fall and next spring (I responded to your PM a while back, see if you got it?). Planning an engine rebuild first.

[gator68428]

Also in 2016, did the Roebling Road NASA "Spring Brake" weekend. Really enjoyed the weekend and how NASA runs events. Started out in DE1 with instructor and attended the classroom sessions. Focused on safety and learning the racing line. Every session out I became more comfortable with the track and by Sunday afternoon I was turning decent times, solo--promoted to DE2. Great weekend.

(same vid in my sig)

https://youtu.be/DPp1l9-FuNE


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[gator68428]

2016 Was a great season and demonstrated that the car was solid on the track. Later in 2016 I started to strongly consider preparing for an Optima USCA event in 2017...

In the winter of 2016 and into spring of 2017 began the next set of mods.

And come Jan, I had registered for the Optima USCA NOLA event slated to occur April 22-23, 2017. Also registered for FM3 Cars n Cones Road trip the week immediately following Optima NOLA.


Mods for spring 2017 were as follows:

-Move lower four link bars inward (to make room for 315s out back--I had originally bought the non-minitub 4-link and the lower four link bars were the last things in the way of 315s now that minitubs were done, fortunately for me the panhard bracket and shock mounts were clear of the wider wheel/tire (shock mount by a mere 3/8" inch--my lucky day))
-Lower fuel tank from inside trunk to below trunk floor (don't want the high weight and want my trunk back!)
-Custom fabbed fuel system: Modified a newly purchased Ebay Universal 20gal Al tank, re-used Al 2 liter accumulator tank, two supply pumps picking up from both rear corners of main tank to keep accum tank full, main pump pulling from accum tank bott rear)
-Split out Vette mufflers to make room for lower fuel tank
-Custom fab removeable trunk floor
-Custom fab battery tray that lowers batt center of mass ~5inches
-Rework tranny cross member to allow exhaust to be raised for better ground clearance
-Rework rightside header (worst offender) for better ground clearance
-Rework exhaust to accomodate new trunk mods and x-member/header mods up front (4th time re-doing exhaust!)
-Fix brake bias issue with lower COF pads up front and higher COF pads out back (CPP rear brakes were a little weak compared to fronts--going with Raybestos ST43s up front and DTC60s out back fixed the prob--game changer)
-Replace driver's side front and rear floor, passenger front floor
-Raise tranny tunnel and adjust transmission angle (pointing too far down)
-Custom driver seat mounts to lower and move seat rearward (I'm tall)
-Extend gas pedal back to be reachable with right foot when on the brake (stock pedal way too deep relative to brake pedal)
-Removed front body biscuits (under rad support--subframe biscuits already removed when installed TCI sub, as recommended), fixed fender gaps
-Removed AC/heater box (the one on the inside of the firewall)
-Rewire trunk battery
-18"x10.5" C5 Z06 wheels with 315/30 BFG Rival S tires all around (to do list only started with rears after minitub, but turned into fronts as well after I had the rears in my possession and started experimenting)
-Front inner fender mods for 315s up front--inner fender mod and rolled outer fender (The TCI engineering front subframe has inset frame rails from stock that make this possible)
-Horn, all lights working, front and rear tow loops (Optima required stuff)
-Roll cage (from Rhodes Race cars)
-5 point harnesses (also bought a Necksgen and firesuit)
-repaint front spoiler
-Got hood hood painted at GT Motorcars in Gainesville, FL (top notch job they did the week before Optima--gave them a dinged up fiberglass hood and they had it done in two days--two days ahead of schedule)
-Rear spoiler (and paint it, did it myself with paint bought online from Express Paint--color match was great--did it the day before had to leave for NOLA)
-new interior carpet, touch up dash items, new trunk carpet
-rear seat delete carpet job
-weatherstripping on and around doors
-Kore3 hubs (out of necessity--broke a CPP hub the week before Optima after scrubbing in new 315 Rivals with freshly installed roll cage--praise the lord the CPP hub failed on a test drive at 30 mph slaloming on a back road near my house and not on the track--a great product delivered on time in a pinch--crazy to think I didn't get them sooner because i was being cheap--disaster averted))

-Also had to get a tow rig and trailer situation worked out. Bought a new Big Tex 18' 70CH (7000 lb gross, brakes on both axles) flat bed trailer for a little over $2200 picked up in Cordele, GA (saved on delivery fee and got a better price than local trailer store). Pretty amazed I could get a nice new flatbed, with fresh brakes, for around $2k. Any working, decent used 18' flat bed, was $1500 minimum and were few and far between. Stay tuned for the tow rig solution ;-)

[gator68428]

December 2016.

Moved lower four link bars inward to make room for 315s out back. I had originally bought the non-minitub 4-link and the lower four link bars were the last things in the way of 315s now that minitubs were done. Fortunately for me the panhard bracket and shock mounts were clear of the wider wheel/tire (shock mount by a mere 3/8" inch--my lucky day).

Custom fab'd the brackets from 1/4 steel plate, myself. Used boring bar (local machine shop access) to get 3" ID to mate perfectly with axle housing.


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[gator68428]

Spring 2017

-Collected roll cage parts from Rhodes Race Cars

-Got the Eastwood TIG200 tig welder, did some practice welds in alum in anticipation of fuel tank mods

-Reworked tranny cross member to allow exhaust to be raised for better ground clearance

-Reworked rightside header (worst offender) for better ground clearance


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[gator68428]

Front wheel well/fender mods for 315s up front--inner fender mod and rolled outer fender (The TCI engineering front subframe has inset frame rails from stock that make this possible)
I moved the wheel wells inward an inch (by separating the wheel well from the front portion and drilling two new holes for the bolts on the roof of well to fender) and cut the outer part out (the part you cannot see from the engine compartment) and replaced it with sheet metal with a more square cross section, and rolled the lip of the front fender (all the way, cracked the paint a little near the edge--underneath where the chrome trim used to go).

To do this I put the car up on jack stands, took out the front coil overs and experimented by moving the suspension through its shock and steering travel. I put the outer sidewall of the tire as far out as it would go so it just clears the rolled lip under full bump and medium steering angles (and medium bump and full steering angles). Turning radius feels about like stock again, not great but workable--since the wider tire makes up for the inset frame rails (TCI Eng front subframe).

-2.5deg of camber up front.

Needed a 1.75" spacer/adapter which gives about 6.28" of backspacing on these C5Z 18x10.5" (+58mm offset, ~8.03" backspace) wheels.

No rubbing after Optima and Cars and Cones many AutoX's and fully loaded (with passenger) road miles. Only rubbing is at full lock in parking lot. Haven't done a good guys course yet, but it's great for normal AutoX courses and road courses. Will get spacers for steering rack (thanks to Chad-1stgen for the info) to act as a hard stop so rubbing won't occur and I can confidently whip the wheel around a GG course--finger's crossed i can make the turns ;-) (worst case can put 275s back on for GG, and still the mod is a net benefit)



Other mods spring 2017 for this post:
-Lower fuel tank from inside trunk to below trunk floor (don't want the high weight and want my trunk back!)

-Custom fab'd fuel system: Modified a newly purchased Ebay Universal 20gal Al tank, re-used Al 2 liter accumulator tank, two supply pumps picking up from both rear corners of main tank to keep accum tank full, main pump pulling from accum tank bott rear)
There are two -6AN supply lines to feed accum tank (one for each pump--pumps are low press 30 gph pumps)
A -8AN return line (all nylon braided now) from accum tank to main tank (for return fuel because the two supply pumps will keep accum over-full most of the time)
Bott near rear of accum tank is -8AN pickup to main (high press EFI--Walbro 255 lph) pump then to SS 1/2 hardline to engine.
3/8 SS hardline return from engine, then to -6AN into accum tank

-Split out Vette mufflers to make room for lower fuel tank


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[gator68428]

Spring 2017

-Batt tray (lower center of mass ~5in into unused space behind right rear wheel)

-Optima Battery

-Floor pans

-Raised tunnel to make room for proper tranny angle (was pointed too far down)(no body biscuits likely cause--interference was only 0.25-0.375 inches with tunnel when at proper angle) and adjusted transmission angle

-Re-did the exhaust for the 4th time


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[gator68428]

Spring 2017

Roll cage. 1-5/8 0.083 wall chromoly.
The pre-bent kit from Rhodes Race Cars was just was I was hoping for. The bends were spot on. Pieces needed cutting down to size and notching--glad b/c I wanted to make sure cage was as high and tight as possible)
Strategy was to get all the pieces cut and notched, then tack it together in place.
After tacked together, drop it through the floor (through the four mounting point on the rocker panels). Holes that will be covered later on by the connection plates.
Finish all welds along the roof and then paint.
Place back into final position and finish lower welds.
Did it all with headliner in. Made one burn hole (even with 6" gap, gotta watch that torch!), and a couple melt holes (when tacking in place, forgot to insulate headliner).
I'm very happy with how it came out, can't really even tell its there from outside the car.
Still needs door bars and dash bar (got all upper welds and paint done), this was the best I could do in the time allotted.
I placed the main hoop back further than most. Leaving plenty of room if I ever move driver/steering/pedals/shifter and (maybe) engine back.

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[gator68428]

Spring 2017

Finished off roll cage (less door bars and dash bar--will have to wait until after Optima) and 5-point harness and carpet.


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[gator68428]

Spring 2017

-Removeable hermetically sealed trunk floor (22ga sheet metal sealed with weatherstripping, aluminum frame support)
-Tow hooks
-Gas pedal move back mod (so I can attempt to start learning how to heal toe)
-Custom driver seat mount brackets
-new Kore3 hubs (out of necessity--broke a CPP hub the week before Optima after scrubbing in new 315 Rivals with freshly installed roll cage--praise the lord the CPP hub failed on a test drive at 30 mph slaloming on a back rode near my house and not on the track--a great product delivered on time in a pinch--crazy to think I didn't get them sooner because i was being cheap--disaster averted)
-5 point submarine mount
-Rear seat delete carpet job
-Painted hood (GT Motorcars of Gainesville, FL did a killer job)
-New rear spoiler (self painted with express paint ordered online)


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[gator68428]

It sure was a mad scramble to get it all done before Optima NOLA. But pretty much got it all done (except for door bars and dash bar, touch up paint, and a few other odds n and ends). but phew Now I'm excited to head to NOLA!

My son was happy when the car was mostly done too!
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[gator68428]

But before we go to NOLA we have to backup and re-visit the tow rig solution... As you can see a LOT of mods were done to the Firebird along with concomitant amount of $$$

Already spent what I could on a nice cost effective trailer (Big Tex 70 CH)..

Now about the tow rig. Turns out I heard something about the Aussies towing race vehicles behind their Holdens, and it turns out the G8/Holdens are built to essentially tow their own weight...

I happen to have a nice bone stock G8 GXP... :look:

The G8 being awesome, big (4000+ lbs) and rated to tow it's own weight, it was a tempting option. Given I'd be above the rated towing capacity of the G8 by 1500 lbs or so, It'd be up to me to use extra caution while towing if I were to go that route.

Long story short, I pulled the trigger on some metal for a hitch for the G8.

I looked into it, and they do make these for the Holdens, and the GXP model has a stamped area in the diffuser for a hitch to stick out, along with a place for it to mount to the frame. But the only prob was they don' t sell such a thing in the states. Others have fab'd their own--I saw one on the G8 boards but the wall thickness they used was overkill (0.25" wall 2"x3" and 2"x2" rect/square tubing) and thing weighed almost a hundred pounds. I used 0.125" wall 2"x3" rect tubing (to plug into frame rails) and 3/16" wall 2"x2" for the cross bar, along with 1/4 and 3/16 thick plate. Along with a receiver and safety chain loop by Curt.

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[gator68428]

Spent a day and went after it.

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[gator68428]

Drumroll please!!

Duhn-duh-nuh-nah!

I get impressed looks, concerned looks, skeptical looks, etc. for this--but it works great. Tows like a dream.

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Side discussion for the naysayers:
The Aussies do it all the time. A little over recommended capacity--they sell 2100 kg (4600+ lbs) tow capacity "towbars" in Australia for the Holdens. The limit is mostly corporate CYA--but rounds up to 5000 lbs in my book. And my 5000 and change load (500ish pounds of change) rounds down to 5000--so its pretty close actually. Either way extra care must be taken by the diver to be cautious and prudent in all driving conditions--to ensure the 5500 lb trailer doesn't push the 4300 lb tow rig off course.

I carefully place the Firebird so there is right around 7% tongue weight, ~400 lbs. This ensures any swaying is always dampend and the rear shocks of the G8 aren't overly compressed (it def squats some, but there's enough travel to spare).

On an open, flat interstate I cruise around 65 MPH. Trailer has brakes on both axles. In the rain or through construction etc. my cruising speed goes down accordingly. I've logged over 2000 miles so far and everything has gone great. Having the GXP model with upgraded, torque, cooling and brakes, allows it to perform very well.

The G8 is an amazing vehicle. Add tow rig to the list of things this car can do.

I should get some air shocks though.

[gator68428]

I had never driven at NOLA Motorsports park before and was not keen on showing up green on a track and jumping into time trials. I'm an intermediate driver with ~6 track days under my belt, and no time trial experience prior to this.

The mods on the Firebird took to the last minute of course, so I needed another vehicle to learn the track prior to Optima.

Turns out there was an SCCA Track Night in America April 13 at NOLA. So I took the G8! Worked out great. Zipped on over there Thursday AM (from north FL) and had a great time. Went through the front brake pads and was metal to metal by the end of the second session. Was only using the brakes 80% the entire night to be safe--knew i should have replaced the pads prior. Brakes still worked, i still drove the 3rd session--got my best time. Got the practice and recorded some video in prep for Optima that i wanted.

Long distance tow rig, family car, and now practice track car.

My best time in the G8 at NOLA was 2:11 and change. This is on stock 245 wide, all season XL 400 TW (think tow rig) tires, although they were pretty fresh.

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Day after on the way home. Made a stop in MS at Buccaneer State Park.

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[gator68428]

April 21st 2017, made it to NOLA for the Optima USCA challenge event :usa::drive1::git::drive::yum::jump:


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[gator68428]

The Optima USCA NOLA event was a great first experience. Another FL vintage buddy of mine, Ed in his 69 "Big Black Camaro" also competed with me at NOLA. Our first time for both of us. We tied for 4th in points overall, but he edged me out due to D&E tiebreak, so i took 5th. Was a great first event for us.

I took 3rd in AutoX :3rd: in GTV (was 0.2s off first place) and 4th on the Hot Lap (was 0.5s from second, only got one full session).

The D&E was a gut check and I will try to rectify that next time--got some more work to do in the garage!

I wasn't competitive in the speed stop because i spent most of Sunday with mechanical issues and finally got it worked out with 15min left of the speed stop and luckily there were delays on the track and I got to run the final session (at almost 6PM!). And unfortunately Ed blew his motor after recording only one hot lap, and he had posted some solid speed stop times in only a few attempts prior to that. Ed and I should have been battling it out for 3rd place if we both had had a full day Sunday!

Overall a great first Optima experience and I will be back next year. Baby on the way soon so I need to take a break from living in the garage working on the car ;-)

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And some pics from FM3 Cars and Cones Road Trip 2017. Hoover, Al to Jasper In in 5 days (I only made it to Bowling Green--not because of mechanical issues--just b/c that was as far as I wanted to push it that far from home after that many events). It was a great event and it was great to get so much practice: 3 straight days of AutoX and not having to work the course--and the camaraderie was great--great week.


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[gator68428]

Yea, same here during the winter months, not much getting done, so no desire/need to stop here as much.

Interested to hear your experience with the EFI. It's on my bucket list, but my motor is so old, leaky, and worn out, that I feel like it'd be polishing a turd to put EFI on it now, without at least rebuilding the 350 for the time being. But at that point, why put the work into a 350, when a 455 is the goal. But, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole we go with the expense! If I knew I could have the 350 rebuilt for dirt dirt cheap, I'd just do that, but who knows what kind of can of worms would open up there.

Well its the dawg days of summer here in FL. But I'm finding myself very active since I'm not doing much outside--and I have the Optima bug now. Scheming for next year. Planning mods for the car, planning on how to pay for said mods etc. Sold off a lot of my parts that I wasn't needing any longer, which def helped--pay off recent mods, and maybe a couple new tires for next year ;-)

Cranked out the updates on my project thread this weekend and I'm almost updated!

It was a blessing in disguise that I waited this long to get current because of the Photobucket debacle. Using postimages dot org. Fingers crossed they keep it free and it sticks around...

[gator68428]

One final back-log post: A recap of the technical issues from Optima USCA NOLA.

At the end of the first day after AutoX, during the road rally, i noticed a lean AFR at times, and couldn't gas-it for the crowd or over the bridge--was weak on power--not that any of us actually do such things ;-).
Got back and realized the fuel pressure was very low. Suspected a clogged post-pump fine filter--one in which I had never cleaned or changed since 2007. That night we (my bro was in from AZ for the weekend to help out) took it out and it was a little bit dirty but did not appear clogged. Upon screwing the housing back in I broke the O-ring! Oops! It was user error as I had never messed with the Mallory filter before. Now, up sh$t creek, went to the auto parts stores nearby (which are open nice and late in NOLA), but to no avail... So, did the only I could do, which was RTV silicone for a nice bush fix... Let it cure over night and kept fingers crossed that it solved the fuel starvation issue.

The next morning (Sunday).
The good news: the RTV sealed and did not leak during a pressure test.
The bad news: there was still a clog in the system.

Now, cutting into Speed Stop and Hot Lap track time, we investigated the issue further (I think i got a few speed stop runs in first before starvation came back because, when we first checked the pressure that morning it looked good). Pulled the main pump (Walbro 255) and realized there were FOAM CHUNKS in it!! Deju Vu from 2014!!

So we cleaned them out, and surveyed the pits for an inline course pre-filter. My buddy Ed came through with a 100um (maybe 40um, forgot which) Russel -8AN that screwed right in (I had some extra AN fittings that helped too)--not the first or last time that weekend I utilized the helpfulness of my fellow competitors--a great crowd of people willing to help, can't say enough about that!

You would think I would have learned my lesson from 2014 where the same thing happened (scroll back in this thread to see). I didn't use a pre-filter this time, per say, because the corner pickups have their own mesh bags on the pickups that should act as particle filters--so that should have prevented this from happening. But, while at Optima I didn't have time to drop the tank and look in it and figure out WTF was up. So we just went with it after cleaning the main pump and adding the inline pre-filter. I did notice the foam chunks were more chewed up into finer pieces this time--makes sense considering it went through the first set of pumps to get to the main pump.

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Luckily, for the Hot Lap event they were having timing issues and the start of competition got delayed a few hours. My lucky day!!

Got out later in the morning for the first Hot Lap session and the fuel issue was solved. But unfortunately I got black flagged on my first lap for smoke...
The smoke was from the PCV valve in the valve cover pulling in oil at certain corners on course.
To address that we converted the vacuum reservoir for my dual mode mufflers (in the trunk--not pictured to this point) as a make-shift catch can for the PCV line.
Got it mounted up and went after it... Unfortunately after a lap and a half, I lost power and noticed smoke coming from the engine compartment!!
Got towed off--new tow loop up front worked great!
Also unfortunate, was, just after I pulled off the track, Ed blew his motor in his 69 Big Black Camaro!! Both FL vintage F-bodies down and towed off track during the same session!

Smoke this time was from a shorted out wire. I thought it was because the wire was a little loose near a header on the passenger side that I forgot to zip tie in the rush to finish the car in time. Thought the wire had shorted on the header... it was fried and seemed to have enough slack in it to reach the header.. but we weren't positive and couldn't think of any other cause. So I replaced the wire.

After fixing the wire and having it short out again on the speed stop, obviously we hadn't fixed the issue. Turns out the actual cause of the electrical short was the make-shift catch can we had rigged up earlier in the day had rubbed against some wire connections at the junction box on the left side radiator support, shorting them out, causing the wire running from my positive battery bulkhead (passenger firewall) along passenger wheel well to original battery location, tying into the power wires beneath rad support that tie into driver's side junction box. This time, we repositioned the catch can, and re-ran the wire (with a spool of wire donated by another generous competitor from the pits).

Got it back together at 4:45pm with 15min left of the speed stop. Only got another 2 or three runs and finished in the middle of the field.

Luckily the Hot Lap event was delayed from the timing issues in the morning. Last intermediate session went out near 6PM!

Finally got one full hot lap session without any issues. Really enjoyed, and needed that final session. Did pretty well too and got 4th place on the Hot Lap (within 0.5s from 2nd place!).

Here's a vid from that final session. Sorry about the sound, my phone sucks.
Some more pics and further discussion of the issues, follows.


https://youtu.be/Vcz4N0j3IQE


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Postmortem on the fuel clog:
One of the mesh pickups had detached in the tank. It did this because the rubber fuel hose had swelled a little and the hose barb came out.
I didn't use a hose clamp b/c the fit was nice and tight initially--if you recall from an earlier pic (added again below) no hose clamp was used on one side.
Lesson learned, what can go wrong will!
Also, following the event I measured the flow rate of both of the supply pumps and the one that consumed the foam was way down on flow. So I will replace it--just a little $35 pump from Summit.
I'm getting closer and closer to a solid fuel system. I think I'll have it after this!

Note to self, use hose clamps!
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[gator68428]

And finally I make my first real time up-to-date post.

Today I went out and took a few more pics showing the current status and to show some more details on the fuel system.

Summer activities with my 22 month old son have been dominating the state of the garage.
I’ve done only a few things since Optima NOLA.

Biggest thing I’ve done was sell off old parts I no longer needed (mainly due to other recent and impending upgrades). Had the garage clean out sale and got rid of 4 tires, 6 wheels, old fuel tank, broken trans, wildwood master (currently without a master cylinder), helmet, extra Ford ECU and ford ECU chip tuner (Tweecer--I have a Quarterhorse that I'm using currently). And cleaned up the garage since the mad dash to finish back in April.

I dropped the fuel tank and am currently fixing the issues with it. In addition to the mesh pickup re-install I need to:
-repaint it (I used the wrong paint and didn’t use self-etching primer first, and this was made worse by the seals failing that came with the tank)
-remake the gaskets. I got what I paid for on the budget Ebay tank (gaskets for cap flange and level gauge flange were no gasoline compatible--go figure). Self-cut Felpro Karopak is what I’m using.
-seal off one of the 10AN pickups that came with the tank—it leaks—got what I paid for again
-install a new supply pump replacing the one that was affected by the foam chunks—already bought one
-remove the foam that came with it—already did

Other things I need to do that need immediate attention, before I start getting into any new mods are as follows:
-Brakes: I sold off the master b/c I’m going to go to manual brakes with separate single masters for front and rear that way I can use a bias bar and get infinite bias adjustability (as I was battling weak rears for a while and band aid fixed it recently by playing pad coefficients). I already got some nice barely used pedals from a fellow PT member
-need to fix a vibration that’s recently popped up that I notice while cruising on the interstate around 75-80. Seems to go away when I push in the clutch…
-finish off the roll cage—dash bar and door bars
-install passenger 5 point harness
-drivers side door hinges and latch, and pull loop on the door, and door panel
-drivers side rear lower coil over bushing is split--needs replacing--but i really need new rear shocks--but gotta save my $$

Also picked up another goodie: innovate wideband kit. I already have a WB with digital gauge and controller (Zeitronix), but its output signal is dedicated to simulating narrowband for my Ford ECU. I want to monitor both sides and will use this one for data logging.

Pics below show in more detail a few things I forgot to mention earlier:
-heat shields on mufflers to shield fuel components--also put insulation around the mufflers before heat shields
-I have a charcoal canister with ECU activated solenoid valve for fumes purge (to manifold vac) tucked away making used of the dead space behind drivers side rear wheel and below trunk floor. Tank vent line runs up high in the trunk from the tank (double walled tubing--fuel line inside heater hose) then back into canister to ensure no sloshed liquid fuel gets into canister

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Those are 1.75" tall aluminum spacers in place of the original location of the lower 4 link bars--along with a 2in longer 5/8-18 bolt--sandwiching all three plates should be even stronger than before. Really lucked out that I was able to turn a non-minitub torque arm setup into one.

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[rickpaw]

Mitch,

Nice detailed write up on the Firebird. I really enjoyed reading thru the journey/changes to the car.

Optima is a nicely run event. I attended the first time back in 2015, and have plans to attend at least one event next year.

Couple of quick questions. How do you like the Eastwood Tig, and the MaxJax. I'm contemplating getting those 2 in the future. At least the MaxJax will make working on the car easier.

[gator68428]

Thanks Tu. I've learned a lot along the way that's for sure.

The Eastwood TIG is great for the weekend warrior on a budget. I've welded aluminum, chromoly and plain steel with it and its great. Probably over 20hrs in the roll cage (4 or 5, 125 ft^3 tanks of argon). Leak tight welds on my alum fuel tank first try. Very reliable so far.

The Max Jax is great also. My garage slab was thick enough, but the post towards the middle of the garage was nearby expansion grooves (that were about 2" deep) and there are now cracks emanating from some of the anchors to the expansion groove. The other post is near the wall and over the foundation part of the slab (18" or more deep I think) and is bulletproof. I will need to repour for the inner post. But the MaxJax is as advertised and great for small two car garage.

[rickpaw]

Thanks for the feedback.

Do you have any detailed pictures of the front tow hook? I see that Optima changed the rules and required tow hooks on competing cars, and I've been thinking on the best way to have a removable tow hook.

[gator68428]

Thanks for the feedback.

Do you have any detailed pictures of the front tow hook? I see that Optima changed the rules and required tow hooks on competing cars, and I've been thinking on the best way to have a removable tow hook.

Yes I do. It's just a piece of angle iron bolted to the frame with the body biscuit bolt and a spacer, and another bolt using the bumper structure bolt from the side. The tow loop itself is an aluminum one I bought of Amazon.

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While I was down there I took some more pics of the front wheel well mods to fit the 315s up front. I've had several people contact me on how I did. I'm also copying my description from earlier in the thread:

Front wheel well/fender mods for 315s up front--inner fender mod and rolled outer fender (The TCI engineering front subframe has inset frame rails from stock that make this possible)

I moved the wheel wells inward an inch (by separating the wheel well from the front portion and drilling two new holes for the bolts on the roof of well to fender) and cut the outer part out (the part you cannot see from the engine compartment) and replaced it with sheet metal with a more square cross section, and rolled the lip of the front fender (all the way, cracked the paint a little near the edge--underneath where the chrome trim used to go).

To do this I put the car up on jack stands, took out the front coil overs and experimented by moving the suspension through its shock and steering travel. I put the outer sidewall of the tire as far out as it would go so it just clears the rolled lip under full bump and medium steering angles (and medium bump and full steering angles). Turning radius feels about like stock again, not great but workable--since the wider tire makes up for the inset frame rails (TCI Eng front subframe).

-2.5deg of camber up front.

Needed a 1.75" spacer/adapter which gives about 6.28" of backspacing on these C5Z 18x10.5" (+58mm offset, ~8.03" backspace) wheels.

No rubbing after Optima and Cars and Cones many AutoX's and fully loaded (with passenger) road miles. Only rubbing is at full lock in parking lot. Haven't done a good guys course yet, but it's great for normal AutoX courses and road courses. Will get spacers for steering rack (thanks to Chad-1stgen for the info) to act as a hard stop so rubbing won't occur and I can confidently whip the wheel around a GG course--finger's crossed i can make the turns ;-) (worst case can put 275s back on for GG, and still the mod is a net benefit)


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[gator68428]

Here's a little bit more about what went into my roll cage (that still isn't finished yet).

I wanted something to increase both safety and performance, and not necessarily in that order... but you know safety first. And something that didn't add too much weight. Therefore I went with 1-5/8 diameter, 0.083 wall chromoly. I know its not approved by NASA and SCCA for wheel to wheel. I will never do wheel to wheel. Only open track days where most cars have no cage at all. We can debate with Ron S about how safe is safe, but this is my build and that's that. I argue my safety is increased and that's all I'm arguing. I have a full 5 pt harness, necksgen and full cage (still needs door bars and dash bar, and maybe a main hoop diagonal) and I feel moderately safe. But I do appreciate Ron S's perspective because it reminds me that I'm not invincible and to always be cognizant of the dangers involved in high speed 3000 lbs hunks of metal. I also know, even though I feel like I appreciate the forces involved and will not be careless, there are things outside my control, like mechanical failures on track at speed, which is why I agree safety is always important. I'm comfortable with my level of increased safety. Maybe it's not for everyone, some may choose to go 1.75" thicker wall DOM tubing and that would be a good choice--and something I recommend to all my competitors ;-)

I did some background prep before jumping in. I found a very helpful resource from Miller:

"Best Practices for TIG Welding of 4130 Chrome-Moly Tubing In General Motorsports and Aerospace Applications"
https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-library/best-practices-for-tig-welding-of-4130-chrome-moly-tubing-in-general-motorsports-and-aerospace-applications

Some very good pointers in the above article. It make one aware of all the releveant parameters of interest in TIG welding such a weldment.

I also did some failure analysis. The article mentions that in properly welded chromoly: the weld is stronger than the metal itself. And gives a test to check the weld strength. I carried out such test by stressing a weld joint to failure to see if the weld failed or if the weld pulled the sidewall out of the tubing. If the latter, then I passed the test. Pics below. i have access to a local machine shop and got the help of an experienced machinist--a skilled TIG welder but not in chromoly roll cages--by the end of test he gave me his blessing on me welding my own cage.

You can see in the failure, I passed the test (sidewall ripped out--weld held up--means the joint is as strong as the tubing, which is all you can hope for).


10k lb press.

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It took more than this to get it to fail. Took both of us hanging on the lever...

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Not a pretty weld I know. This was one of my first. But the strength was there. Good penetration.

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[gator68428]

Here's a schematic of my fuel system. Created by a DIY guy in a garage, in his own vacuum, after several iterations, with only an internet connection that only gets the Summit catalog, Ebay, and Google images (Endless supply of nylon hose and AN fittings, fuel pumps, cheap al tanks and other surge tank examples) and not the outside world (i.e. vaprworx). ;-)
It's my way of skinning the cat if you will.

*1/4 inch polyethylene tubing for the vent vac line, not 1/8 (typo in the diagram)

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[Sales-TCI-Eng]

This car is so much win. We love what you've done with it over the years Mitch. Really neat to read about the back story with your brother.

Now that you've got all the rubber up front we need to discuss sway bar sizes and spring rates.

-J

[gator68428]

This car is so much win. We love what you've done with it over the years Mitch. Really neat to read about the back story with your brother.

Now that you've got all the rubber up front we need to discuss sway bar sizes and spring rates.

-J

Thanks Jason. Yes we do. And I'm looking forward to more updates on the Truck.

[Sales-TCI-Eng]

Thanks Jason. Yes we do. And I'm looking forward to more updates on the Truck.

I love that you're towing with the G8. Rolling into events like a king with that set-up. Any hints of tranny slippage?

We were working on a rendering that had a blown BBC flatbottom behind the C10. We're going to ask a lot of our 4L80E.

[gator68428]

I love that you're towing with the G8. Rolling into events like a king with that set-up. Any hints of tranny slippage?

We were working on a rendering that had a blown BBC flatbottom behind the C10. We're going to ask a lot of our 4L80E.

Yeah the G8 is pretty awesome vehicle that's for sure. I'm pretty easy on it. Cruise at 65 mph and get 17.5 mpg (same as the Firebird all by itself!). Doubt the G8 even notices it. No temperature warning or anything while towing--feels fine. I have had an oil temp warning on track before (forget if it was engine oil or trans--prolly trans), but nothing while towing.

[Fritz]

I'm not surprised the Aussie's tow with the holden. My Forester is rated for only 1500lbs towing here, in 'straya they're rated for something like 4000+.

You said you broke a CPP hub? I thought they used c5 hubs, do they make for than one style?

[gator68428]

I'm not surprised the Aussie's tow with the holden. My Forester is rated for only 1500lbs towing here, in 'straya they're rated for something like 4000+.

You said you broke a CPP hub? I thought they used c5 hubs, do they make for than one style?

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Don't doubt that at all.

Yes I think there are different hubs from CPP. This one was for the Mustang II, which is what the TCI spindle uses--it's a larger spindle shaft than stock f-body. You can see where the CPP hub broke, the thickness around the outer bearing race was thinner than the Kore3 hub. Side by side the Kore 3 hub, it looks very thin, and almost unsurprising that it broke. Not sure if the CPP was thinner there for certain wheels with small center holes... but not the wheels I was using... That's the only thing I can think of to explain it.

[gator68428]

So here's the grand plan for the next set of mods. V3.0 if you will.

Most of which (what I can afford $$ and time wise) will hopefully be completed for Optima events next year.

V3.0 mods (*is mandatory):

*Engine rebuild:
-*Rotating assmbly--Forged crank and rods, lightweight pistons etc. Bore to clean up. Likely keep 4" stroke
-*Up compression from 10:1 currently to 12+:1
-*Get Kauffman heads ported to 340 cfm
-*One notch more radical cam
-*Firewall, engine comp detail
-Custom intake manifold
*Lower alternator mounting position
*Crankcase evac kit
*Accusump
*Manual brakes with dual (separate) single masters and bias bar
*C-clip eliminator kit with axles, for road course app (Strange P1011GOT), new carrier too
*door bars, dash bar, down bars in engine compartment
Front fenders, fiberglass bumper, car repaint
Lighten front end more
Steering wheel and column
Rear shocks
two piece front rotors


Already got started and took the booster out and started re-locating the alternator--from driver's side up high, to passenger side down low. Goal is twofold: to lower the alternator for center of gravity improvement, and to make room for my custom intake manifold idea (if it actually happens we'll see, but I'm officially starting).

I started tinkering in AutoCAD to make a custom bracket to mount the alternator and when I thought I was done I realized I had input the wrong spacing between the alternator mount holes! So I went to bed (last night).

Then I woke up this morning and realized on my grand plan, is to include a crankcase evac pump, which also goes over on the passenger side and needs to be considered when locating the alt. Now I'm glad there was an error in my first drawing, since I would have had to redo it anyways.

So today, I ordered the parts for the crankcase evac (Jim butler pump, crank mandrel, pulleys, spit tank, hoses n fittings, sans mount bracket) and ordered the accusump parts while I was at it (2 qt unit, with solenoid valve and switch kit, sandwich oil filter adapter and mounting clamps, will get EPC valve later after rebuild when I know the idle oil press).

Alt is mocked up in position in one of the holes in the head. It would work there. But will have to check with again once I get the evac pump.

Another wrinkle is, because the passenger head sits further forward (almost an inch) I have to move the belt forward to the groove used by the power steering (normally alt used the further back of the two grooves on the water pump and crank pulley). To address this I plan to modify the p/s pulley--add that to the list!!

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[gator68428]

I was thinking more about the Accusump setup and how to ensure the max stored pressure is maintained until needed on the track. Called Accusump and they said tuners have customized the system to accomplish this.

I started the discussion in the Advanced section, here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/125893-Accusump-custom-cut-on-switch

I also started a thread requesting feedback on where to mount it--and pics on what people have done.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/125897-Show-me-your-Accusump-installation!

I've never used an Accusump system before and I am trying to plan to make the best of it.

Anyone have any experience with an Accusump system on the road course? Any pointers or feedback on it?

Any thoughts on my proposed customization? If related to that, please reply in that thread if you don't mind :-)

[gator68428]

Made a little bit of progress this weekend.

The Accusump (2qt) and associated parts, oil spit tank and AN fittings came Friday. The evac pump (GZ pump) from Butler Performance will arrive this week.

Thinking of mounting the spit tank on the passenger side rad support next to rad. And I'm liking the idea of putting the Accusump in the trunk.

I also made some progress on the custom brackets for the alternator and evac pump mounts.

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[gator68428]

Started over with the bracket design, again. Underestimated the CNC costs.

Started with a simpler design for the block that mounts to the head--and was able to use some aluminum stock I already had from an earlier project (some 3" diameter solid rod). Also moved the evac pump a little tighter in and down, and needed additional mods because the actual evac pump dimensions were different than the drawing on the website--go figure. For the belt tension adjustment brackets, instead of the fancy CNC show pieces, I plan to cannibalize existing steel alternator brackets--ordered a couple different ones on Ebay.

Made the head block today on the milling machine. Now I can have the alt and evac pump mounted in place and start fitting the adjustment brackets when they come in. Figure I'll keep my existing alternator brackets, just in case.

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[gator68428]

Did a little bit more machining to the piece. Took off more material, finished tapping threads, did the counterbore, increased contact surface pressure on the head (by "free hand CNC"ing the bottom side).

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[gator68428]

A little more progress today. Got the alternator tensioner bracket done. Tied it into two water pump bolts.

I bought a low mount alternator bracket kit for an SBC (chrome parts in the pic). Also bought a Pontiac 301 alternator bracket from Ebay--just looked like it may be useful. Ended up cutting a portion of the 301 bracket for it to mount to the water pump bolts, then welded it to the spacers of the SBC low mount bracket kit--and welded the spacers to the chrome brackets--one needed the bolt removed for space concerns, and just went ahead and welded both so it's one rigid piece and took both bolts out, saved some weight. I may still add some gussets where the 301 plate connects to the two spacers.

Took a little siesta in the heat of the day. Then had some help in the afternoon to wash the G8. Then when the boys went to bed I had some more time in the evening after things cooled off.

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[gator68428]

I did a little investigating today to see if the solenoid valve actually is a one way valve or not. Made some youtube videos discussing the topic along with the benefits of the EPC switch and also discussed the addition of the evac pump.

Skip to video part 2 to see the pressure test.

Part 1. Intro and NPT install.

https://youtu.be/PNCDW-bvvpY


Part 2. Pressure test and evac pump discussion.

https://youtu.be/JR4a0VGOihI


Part 3. Activation of solenoid valve with 12V and further discussion on the benefits of the EPC valve.

https://youtu.be/xZ4iEM8pDKs

[gator68428]

Made a little bit of progress over that past few days.

Started routing the Accusump 10 AN line.

Measured up the rear axles and am in the process of ordering the Strange Pro Race Custom Axle Packages P1011GOT which includes custom, beefier axles and c-clip eliminators for road course use. The kit requires measurement of the axles and spec'ing other parts. My rear end is a stock 8.5" GM 10 bolt from a 74 Ventura (same as a Nova).
Length of Driver's side axle = 29.13
Length of Passngr side axle = 29.07

Do these numbers make sense?

I also placed the order for a new posi carrier from Quick Performance--Eaton style posi. Went ahead and upgraded to 30 splined axles/carrier since it was an option. My rear end housing came with 28 splined axles. Newer model 10 bolts have 30 splined axles and the housing is the same, so the newer carriers are backwards compatible.

In taking apart the rear end I noticed one of my rotors was cracked in 3 places. This is the CPP rotor that was part of the big brake kit. I've had them on the car since 2006 but prior to April of this year I was not using Hawk DTC60 brake pads, and they were not cracked. So the rotors have really only seen real heat for one track day and 4 autoX events (April Optima and Cars n cones). Also noticed the e-brake cable plastic was melted. Prior to the new pads the rear brakes were weak which is why I went to DTC60s in the rear. Only going to high COF pads in the rear (DTC60) and low COF pads in the front (Raybestos ST43) did the brake balance get better.

Need to figure out what model and year the CPP rotors are from. Anyone know?

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[gator68428]

Called CPP and they are the only ones making that rotor in that specific size. And they only sell it in a drilled and slotted option. The drilled part is the non-starter for me, as it's obvious the cracks emanated from the drilled holes. Rotors being a consumable item, I'd prefer more options too, at a better price. For example, basic high carbon replacements for my C6Z fronts are only $64 each.

So I started searching google, and luckily if you search the Centric rotor part number you can find its dimensions. The closest I could find were 94 Zr1 front rotors. All of the dimensions were the same except the height and rotor thickness. The CPP height (from wheel face to inner brake pad face) is 2.75 inches and rotor thickness ~1. The height of the 94 Zr1 fronts is 2.19 and thickness ~0.8.

Since I will need new brackets anyways, because of the c-clip eliminators, I will make new ones placing the calipers in the proper place for the ZR1 rotors. Them being 0.2" thinner will not be a problem.

In addition, the hub registration bore on the CPP rotor was too loose, it was over 2.8 inches. The stud hole diameters were overly roomy too--rotor would rub caliper when hot if not perfectly centered (which was hard to do because of the looseness)--made a tapping sound as the rotor would rub the caliper once per revolution when hot. The axle shoulder being 2.775" in diameter, will allow the 2.78 reg bore of the ZR1 rotor a much better fit. Great price too, only $46 each.

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[Hammered]

I would guess 4th gen Camaro rear. EBC makes a dimpled (not drilled rotor).

Glad to see the car progressing.

[gator68428]

I would guess 4th gen Camaro rear. EBC makes a dimpled (not drilled rotor).

Glad to see the car progressing.

The 4th gens use a 4.65" bolt circle for some reason.
I saw your website. Very cool, nice job on the restoration and documentation--good stuff. How's the car these days? What's new?

[gator68428]

Modified the alt/evac pump bracket a little bit more--evac pump needed to move slightly closer to engine, and I added a speed hole to save weight. Also modified the evac pump adjuster bracket--beefed it up and smoothed it out.

Got the 10 AN lines run for the Accusump and evac pump. Added a 1/2 NPT weld bung to the valve cover--and moved the internal baffle to provide cover for the weld bung--is the location evac pump will suck from.

And got the new powersteering pulley in (from CPP, part# CP38810). It's deeper than the original--so it allows me swap the positions with the alternator belt on the crank and water pump pulley--moving the alternator over to the passenger side, it needed to use the further forward belt groove because that head is further forward. It's deeper than I need actually, so I still need to space the powersteering pump 1/4 inch further from the head.

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[813Demon340]

I like the clean install and routing! Really like your build, and you are a True Pontiac Baller towing with the G8 into the Optima event! Keep up the great work and updates!

[gator68428]

I like the clean install and routing! Really like your build, and you are a True Pontiac Baller towing with the G8 into the Optima event! Keep up the great work and updates!

Thank you!

And I got the accusump mounted in the trunk.

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[gator68428]

Just got my Strange axle and c-clip eliminator kit in today and it looks great.

It's the Strange GM 10 & 12 Bolt Hybrid Axle Package With Special Eliminator kit & 1/2″ Studs. P1011GOT (A1100 eliminator)
The kit is meant for lateral loads and has drag race launching strength.
For my 8.5" 10 bolt. Since I needed a new carrier I upgraded to 30 splines (vs the 28 spline the 72 Nova housing originally had).
Got the Yukon Dura grip, it came in earlier in the week (from Quick Performance).

Beefy axles, and massive diameter for the tapered bearing. Starting to install now.

Much beefier compared to the original 28 splined axle.

And the upgraded bearing will help a lot too I'm sure. You can see the wear on the 28 spline axle from the stock bearings contacting the axle directly with no inner race. This was a brand new replacement axle in 2014 and only has <5000 miles and maybe 10 autocrossed and 6 track days. Apparently the 10 bolt was not built for this. I recently developed a vibration on the interstate and suspect these damaged axles were the cause.

I'm confident this new kit will solve all of these issues: -pad knockback, -lateral wheel motion, -overstress of the bearing surface, -overstress of the axle, -drag strip proof strength
The double seals and gaskets the kit has I'm optimistic about its sealing ability too. Not bad for $520.

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[Hammered]

The 4th gens use a 4.65" bolt circle for some reason.
I saw your website. Very cool, nice job on the restoration and documentation--good stuff. How's the car these days? What's new?

Nothing new on my car as I pretty much tackled everything at the time I built it. I've been helping friends with projects and continue to think about the next one though.

The LS1 bolt circle is metric, but that small difference won't matter. They are hub centric and the hub diameter is correct.

Keep the progress coming.

[gator68428]

...
The LS1 bolt circle is metric, but that small difference won't matter. They are hub centric and the hub diameter is correct.

Keep the progress coming.

You're right! The 4th gen f-body rear 12" rotors are deeper than the 94zr1 fronts, and thicker too (2.41" height, 1" thick, vs 2.19 and 0.8). 1.5 lbs heavier, but still only 15.5 lbs they are still relatively light (for ref my front plain c6z 14" rotors are 26 lbs each!). The extra thermal mass will probably be good (you don't want rotors too light either...).

I was thinking of the bolt circle too rigidly like for a wheel. But since the rotor is sandwiched between the wheel, the stud holes are just clearance holes. And yes the hubcentric reg will get them centered--which I know will be spot on (within 0.005").

I may need to exchange them. Thanks for piping in!

[gator68428]

Here's the fabrication that went into the evac pump adjuster bracket. Just realized I hadn't included any of these pics yet.

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[gator68428]

Pressed the bearings on today. This was a first for me and not something I've come across having worked only on cars--after watching some youtube videos it seems this is standard procedure for truck parts..

Definitely want to make sure you have the right equipment, or get them professionally done. It is not trivial. I had access to a manual 10k lb press and had the assistance of a skilled machinist.

This ought to improve my GM 10 bolt significantly.

Took about 2.5 hours from start to finish. This including machine time for making the press sleeves from scrap metal laying (started with pieces that were pretty close--just need to square up the faces and turn the IDs (i did the machining there--the machinist helped operate the press). I made a 10 min youtube video showing the highlights.

The operation seemed to go smoothly and we followed the directions exactly.
But I can see the potential for leaks if not done properly--maybe that's why the bad rep for leaks?
Eitherwho, I will update again once I get the car going and monitor for leaks. Otherwise, so far so good.


https://youtu.be/saCdDBeW5HI

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