Suspension, air vrs coil...

[Nilfol]

Just looking for feedback on your experiences.
thanks
john

[Rhino]

What are your requirements?

I personally prefer a traditional suspension over air ride. That's mostly due to less complexity.

[Rod]

Just looking for feedback on your experiences.
thanks
john


for what???

for towing .....the AirRide equipped shop truck that I used for a year was the best riding and towing truck I have ever driven, and after I left Ridetech and went to anther company they had the exact same truck without air-ride.....and it sucked!!!!

for racing ......I cant advise one way or the other I never raced on air ride

[MonzaRacer]

I havent ran coil overs but have helped people swap over and when it comes to coil overs so faf the Ridetech have been replacing others which worked but the other brands needed MORE valve refinement. Air ride will give handling AND better ride quality. I put rear air springs on my 71 Monte and new sensa tracs and the handling and launch was impeccable and when we swapped in my 3.55 12 bolt and southside machine lift bars the car was awesome. My 78 c10 has simple coolride from Ridetech , parallel 4 link , ridetech blue monroe made front shocks and carquest rear trck shocks for 70 coil spring truck, and it could stay with eibach/kyb equiped 01 Camaro on Eagle F1s in twistys. And i had 31x10.50 rear tires, 255/70 firehawk indy 500s on front.
The Monte only had single air lines to each spring and worked fine the truck has ac compressor for air source and older paddle switches.
My next project is either my 66 Caprice 4dr or my 77 Monza. Thinking of running coilovers on front of Monza and air springs in back . Would have preferred air all around but frontend is just so tight. Just went and talked to Ridetech today about what thickness to use to reinforce the upper shock hole in Monza. Caprice is probably gonna use air all around, still deciding on shockwaves or air springs. They only have airsprings for rear so front plan is up in air.air ride does not have to be complicated. I helped one guy plumb his car nd we simply ordered 3/8 brake lines custom and ran them with with brake lines. Then ran short flex lines to all springs. We also moved air storage to 4 places on frame in smaller tanks. With valving remoted rather than in trunk. Found a pair of turbine air compressors rated for 12-24 v thinking airplane. Got numbers saved somewhere. They build fast and will deadhead up to 350 psi and have internal preasure switch to limit tank psi which we capped at 150. So on ground air ride is hidden. I still remember before Air Ride Technologies was included in a competition and came with Air Ride BEFORE the awesome new shocks, and John Hotchkis opened it up and said air ride was NOT a performance suspension for handling, and wax for cruising and fair ground cruising. And Bret and company blew it out of the park with AIR RIDE. When i read it, i heard the fight bell ding ding ding and KNEW Bret was coming out fighting but i allready KNEW it was great handling. That was in a 2005 (?) Magazine and it still continues. Either can work fine it depends on wants and wallets.

[Schwartz Performance]

We've removed more air systems than we've put on.
I haven't driven in an air ride vehicle that rode nicer than a similar coilover car. I just like to keep things simple and will recommend coilovers.

[sheck44]

We've removed more air systems than we've put on.
I haven't driven in an air ride vehicle that rode nicer than a similar coilover car. I just like to keep things simple and will recommend coilovers.

I've heard this from a lot of builders actually
Cheers
Steve

[vintageracer]

Think about it. It's NOW Ridetech instead of Air Ride Technologies.

Look at Ridetech's new product development and marketing efforts. It's currently directed at traditional spring based suspension technology rather than air suspension technology. None of the "fast" cars you see at events including Brets's latest builds are on air.

That alone should be a good barometer of where aftermarket upgrade suspension packages/technologies are trending!

[gmorris]

I put a ridetech stage 2 air system on my '69 chevelle and after a year switched back to coilovers. The air system rode good but it was never consistent (even with the ride height sensors), would self level at start up if you were parked on uneven pavement and then be uneven until it re-levelled again, and just felt floaty until you loaded the suspension up in a corner. Switching to coils with the rest of the system the same is much better...just as comfortable, easier to tune and much more consistent plus no big loud compressor to deal with.

[bret]

Think about it. It's NOW Ridetech instead of Air Ride Technologies.

Look at Ridetech's new product development and marketing efforts. It's currently directed at traditional spring based suspension technology rather than air suspension technology. None of the "fast" cars you see at events including Brets's latest builds are on air.

That alone should be a good barometer of where aftermarket upgrade suspension packages/technologies are trending!


I have won more races on air suspension than I have on coilovers. Here is why.

An airspring is an infinitely variable rate progressive spring. "infinitely" might be a tad optimistic in that there are some limitations, but for our purposes here it is the most appropriate term. When choosing a static spring [coil, leaf, or torsion bar] the smartest among us use well worn [and accurate] mathematical formulas to arrive at an appropriate spring rate. Keep in mind that these mathematical formulas cannot account for ALL the variables in a vehicle...tire grip level, track or road surface, torsional stability of the chassis, or individual driving style. So even when you get the "right" spring you still need to fine tune the rate to accommodate all these intangibles. With a static spring, tuning means changing components. And when the track or road conditions change you get to start all over again.
With an air spring it means adjusting air pressure via an in-cabin controller. This means I can properly tune an airspring in some fraction of the time it takes to tune a static spring. And when track or road conditions change...I make a simple adjustment from inside the car to re-optimize the spring rate.

In reality only the most diligent of hotrodders will actually take the time required to even select an appropriate starting point, let alone invest the testing time required to truly fine tune the static spring rate. They end up using someone else's recommendations and either tuning the rest of the car around it or living with it.

I am as lazy as the next guy. Faced with the choice of spending hours or days fine tuning a proper static spring rates or spending a few laps adjusting airspring pressure from inside the car, I'm going with the airspring every time. So why does our current "race cars" run coilovers? Simple...its what our customers want. Its what sells. Its what supports 55 families here at RideTech.

Why the transition from the Air Ride Technologies name to the RideTech name? See above. Around 2007 we decided to expand beyond just air suspension into coilovers, swaybars, 4 links, StrongArms, and TigerCages. I knew that buying a coilover from a company named Air Ride Technologies would not be a popular activity. Since www.ridetech.com had been our website name since our beginning in 1996, I chose to transition to the RideTech name. The result? the size of my company has more than doubled since 2008. What happened to Air Ride Technologies? Those who get a paycheck here know that Air Ride Technologies, Inc. is still the legal name of the company.

For those who have removed an air ride system because it didn't ride as good, or you had leaks, or you could not get the ride height right...you are doing it wrong. Or were told to do it wrong by an air suspension supplier who didn't know/care what they were doing. An air suspension is not rocket science and it is not a black art. It is a simple exercise in in understanding the basic dynamics of a spring and a suspension system and embracing all the adjustment that an air suspension offers instead of being frustrated by it. For those who have changed from our older ShockWaves over to our newer coilovers and have experienced a vastly improved ride quality...please understand that it is the shock, not the spring that is responsible for the improvement. When you changed over to our coilovers, you coincidently received a much superior shock than we had been using previously. Had you upgraded your older ShockWaves to newer ShockWaves you would have experienced the same radical improvement in ride quality.

When we expanded into coilovers, we partnered with Fox to create a shock cartridge for us. We now use that identical monotube shock cartridge in both the coilover and the ShockWave...they are interchangeable. The shock is the brains of your suspension and the greatest influence of ride quality.

Here is another unpublicized fact...over 50% of our annual sales is still air suspension. That segment had not shrunk since we transitioned to the RideTech name, it has actually grown as a dollar amount.

Now for all my pontificating about air suspension, there are several reasons to NOT use an air suspension:

1. Some people simply do not want to engage in learning about the tuning process that will optimize an air suspension. They are more than satisfied with the ride and handling of a static spring. I understand and appreciate that fact.
2. Some people do not want to extra cost of an air suspension.
3. Some people are uninterested in any ride height adjustment capabilities...or any adjustments at all. I get that too...that is why several of my personal cars are using a static spring.

These are all valid reasons to not use an air suspension...and why a large portion of our business revolves around static springs. But rest assured that air suspension is far from dead. In fact you will see some significant new air suspension product releases from us later this year. You will also see me back in an air suspension race car later this year. Stand by...

[mitch_04]

Awesome reply Bret!

[MonzaRacer]

NUFF SAID BY THE MAN HIM SELF! And same thing several guys told me before and main reason I STILL tell people to not look past air ride. My 71 Monte had stock coils with 9 inches of coil spring lift to raise car back up. My stock coils where SHOT!!!!
Bret made me a deal on rear CoolRide and I set them up with single line to each spring, junk shocks made suck ass ride, new sensa trace made it ride/drive better. The air springs I found out needed MORE air and after I found this out( and remember I was told this by Bret) it handled better than you can believe and this was 98, right before leaving for East Coast Power Tour. Loaded way down with lots of tools luggage, coolers, etc the car handled great, hooked better than expected and road more like Caddy or Lincoln.
It just depends on what you want and are comfortable with.

[raustinss]

For those who don't remember Boris Said pulled over a "g" in a 66? Chevelle with air ride .

[bret]

For those who don't remember Boris Said pulled over a "g" in a 66? Chevelle with air ride .

...on KDW tires...and a little bitty 225 mm width...10 years ago...on a **** track.

[Nativefx]

Hey Bret, I'm currently working on my 69 Firebird and made the decision to go with the AirRide shockwaves even after originally ordering the coilovers. As of right now, I'm trying to determine whether the smaller 3 gallon tank is going to be enough or when/how you determine when a 5 gallon is necessary? I have the ride level sensors and i'm worried about when I need to increase the rider height for entering steeper driveways, speedbumps, etc that it won't take long for the system to raise the car. I'm also thinking about when I want to raise the car from a completely lowered stance when parked.

Obviously the 3 gallon tank in the AirPod setup I ordered was to try and salvage as much of the trunk space is necessary, but now I'm worried the smaller tank won't be able to provide the requirements I want out of it. Any help would be appreciated.