DEI535 pwr window controller

[cdrod]

Anyone have a experience installing a DEI 535t power window controller? It's an aftermarket version of an OEM body control module; adds "1-touch" up and down functions and can be programmed to vent windows, or roll them up when arming the alarm system. I would like to build my own power window set-up using the factory motors and regulators, but use more modern toggle style switches. My car is a convertible so the "1-touch" down feature is very appealing. Only $50 from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Directed-Electronics-535T-Automation-Operation/dp/B00H4N1Y2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484870214&sr=8-1&keywords=DEI+535t

[H2Ogbodies]

You don't need a body module-not sure if you are using factory power windows or not-I don't think their kit will work on self grounding window motors-if you're doing reverse polarity motors you should be okay. OEM window motors were the self grounding type. If you are going with a window conversion kit those typically use reverse polarity motors. I use GM solid state 4-wire modules in my kits.

[H2Ogbodies]

Here is one of my 70-79 fbody kits-it's designed to be installed cleanly under the center console and the a-bodies are similar in design but as I said it depends on what type of window motors you plan to run.

[cdrod]

Jabin:
I spoke with you last year about implementing auto-up/auto-dn on my '72 Old convertible project. I have a complete factory power window set-up (motors and regulators) but want to use more modern toggle switches like you find in newer vehicles. You are correct that my factory motors are "self-grounding" with one winding for the up direction and another winding for the down direction. But I don't under stand why this is a problem with a polarity reversing module like the DEI535 I'm looking at. The factory circuit design left the unused winding open, so if you were running the window down, only the down winding has power, the up winding is left unconnected.
As I understand it, the switching polarity circuit design would connect the unused winding to ground and the other to 12vdc. Wouldn't the motor still turn because the current could flow to ground through the case, or does grounding the unused winding cause problems. Is this schematic symbol a correct representation of the "self-grounding" motors?

136395

[CapSS92]

Hi Rodney,
I found a couple of things for you that may help. I love the interweb! ;) First is a circuit that runs power through relays and then you can use whatever switch you want. That takes care of your switch problem.

http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=40530.0

After reading the manual on the 535T it looks like one touch doesn't work on 4 window mode. Quote-“One touch” does not function in 4 window mode." Maybe it just offers an all window roll up or down feature. I used 2 530T modules on my Chevelle but I'm using aftermarket window motors and I have one touch on all and remote up/down through the alarm. That self grounding motor on your stock setup does seem like a hassle. But I can't see why you can't make it work in one direction only. I did find you another solution using OEM one touch controllers. It would be a lot of wiring but you would have one touch down or up on each window. Check out this link.

http://www.w-body.com/topic/52492-how-to-one-touch-modules-auto-updown/

Overall I think one touch could be done with your stock motors but it's a lot of wiring. Here's a link to what should be how your stock motors are wired. It's for a two door Malibu but it shows how the self grounding setup works. Hope this helps you. Thanks.

Alex

https://gbodyforum.com/threads/power-window-wiring.18540/

[CapSS92]

I found the info on the GM module. I don't know if it self cancels like the Ford version but here's the info if you need it.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93330

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=25614182&_sop=15

[H2Ogbodies]

Jabin:
I spoke with you last year about implementing auto-up/auto-dn on my '72 Old convertible project. I have a complete factory power window set-up (motors and regulators) but want to use more modern toggle switches like you find in newer vehicles. You are correct that my factory motors are "self-grounding" with one winding for the up direction and another winding for the down direction. But I don't under stand why this is a problem with a polarity reversing module like the DEI535 I'm looking at. The factory circuit design left the unused winding open, so if you were running the window down, only the down winding has power, the up winding is left unconnected.
As I understand it, the switching polarity circuit design would connect the unused winding to ground and the other to 12vdc. Wouldn't the motor still turn because the current could flow to ground through the case, or does grounding the unused winding cause problems. Is this schematic symbol a correct representation of the "self-grounding" motors?

136395
Hello! You can't ground the unused terminal @ the window motor while providing voltage to the other terminal-you'll get a loud "snap" while they make contact and the wiring will begin to melt in about 3 seconds! I've done a LOT of troubleshooting using both self grounding and reverse polarity window motors.

[CapSS92]

Oh I completely agree with you. I can't see how any of the aftermarket modules would be able to control a self grounding motor. However, in the case of a one direction one touch, you're only powering the down or up wire. Since there would be no ground to the other wire, it would be isolated. If you look at the schematic from the G-body link, the power window switches don't run ground or power at rest. Even if he used the relay setup from the link to the 78TA site, it would still isolate all the wires. So why wouldn't the GM or Ford module work since it's only powering one wire? Shoot if I had a motor here, I'd love to test it. I like fire. ;) Just for grins, I went to the local yard today and got a GM and a Ford module. We're going to test it on my buddy's 85 Elco that I'm rewiring. Unfortunately it uses the newer 2 wire motors so I can't use it as self grounding motor test bed but he's happy to get a one touch down on his drivers side.

[H2Ogbodies]

The Fords have 5 wires with one being a constant ground. The GM ones are far more robust. The aftermarket 1-touch controllers I don't have any experience with-I just prefer using OEM with their extreme engineering. I do know I've seen even worn out self grounding window motors pull about 13 amps so they can definitely soak up the juice!

[cdrod]

Has anyone modified an OEM "Self-grounding" motors by reworking the internal wiring? I've been inside one of my OEM motors and the ground is just a wire from one of the brushes that is pinched to the case when you tighten the bolts. How hard would it be to isolate this wire from the case and route it to one of the power connector pins thus eliminating one of the windings and the case ground? You could then reverse the polarity of the motor without the "self-grounding" feature getting in the way. I was already planning to clean up my 40 year old motors and replace brushes if necessary. This mod seems pretty easy to implement.
My next question is will the DEI535 window controller handle the current draw. I've bench tested all 4 of my motors to see if the worked and they each pull 6-9 amps at no-load. The DEI module is rated at 12v, 20 amps. HMMM? One nice feature of the DEI module is integration into an alarm system so it can "vent" the windows just a crack, and roll them up if the alarm is tripped.

[CapSS92]

I don't think you'll have a problem with the current draw. My 530T's handle mine with no problems. However, and maybe I'm reading this wrong, the 535 in a 4 window configuration doesn't seem to do one touch and will only handle one direction. In that case you will still need two modules to do what you want. As for the rewire, I found this link that talks about trying to do this to a Ford motor that pretty much works the same way. They talk about there being separate brushes for each direction. I say do it and see what happens. From what I can find, seems like that's going to be the only way. Any chance you could switch the motors to a two wire setup? DORMAN 742101 is a motor that is used on tons of GM vehicles and can mounted in pretty much any direction. My Nu-Relics rear pw uses these. Rockauto has them for $20 each.

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-ford-techboard/613601-power-window-conversion-1966-thunderbird-switches-1966-galaxie.html

[blitzer454]

I don't have any experience with a self grounding motor, but it seems to me that you could make this work very easily by adding a couple of diodes. Connect the cathode of a diode to each non-ground wire of the motor. Then connect each anode of the diode to the output of the DEI535 motor controller. Then configure the DEI535 as if it was controlling a reversible-polarity motor. So when one wire of the DEI535 output is hot and the other is ground then one of the diodes will block the current from flowing through one of the motor winding. When the polarity is reversed then the other diode will block the current to the other motor winding. The motor will operate in the desired direction because of the current that flows from the hot DEI535 output wire through the diode then through the motor winding and then to the ground of the motor.

[H2Ogbodies]

I just think it's about to the point of why bother? lol It's almost too much work to make the tire more than 99.9% round imo

[cdrod]

Cap:
The DEI module will operate 2 windows with auto up and dn or 4 windows with auto up or auto dn but not both directions. I was planning to use 2 modules to have auto up/dn functionality on all 4 windows.

Blitzer:
Using diodes to block the reverse voltage is a great idea, but the DEI docs state that the module will not work with relays or other solid state control modules because it needs to sense the AC noise generated by the motor to control the window movement. The diode would block this connection.

Jabin:
Are there late model, reversible motors (without self-grounding) that will bolt up to the 70's era window regulators? I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading to newer motors while I'm at it.

Thanks for all the replies.

[blitzer454]

I think the AC "noise" they are referring to is the current change that will occur when the window reaches the stop at the top or bottom of the window travel. In this case the diodes should not interfere with the operation of the DEI module, but I won't make any guarantees.

[CapSS92]

The diode idea sounds like that might work. I hadn't even thought of that. Only one way to find out. Rodney, call these guys and see what they tell you. They do a lot of power window conversions. Maybe they have a motor that will fit.

http://www.a1electric.com/motors.htm

Nurelics uses the newer motors on their kits.
https://www.opgi.com/common/CH26928-lrg.jpg

Which are DORMAN 742150 motors. Rockauto has them for $17. Here's a link so you can see what they look like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-GMC-Pontiac-Buick-Oldsmobile-Front-Rear-Door-WINDOW-LIFT-MOTOR-new-OEM-/261211465588?fits=Make%3AChevrolet%7CModel%3AEl+Ca mino&hash=item3cd16aa774:g:E3cAAMXQsoNRhpR5&vxp=mtr

These guys use the newer motors on their regulators as well.
https://www.carid.com/auto-metal-direct/window-regulator.html?relationshipId=600168448&childId=286539287&gclid=Cj0KEQiAtqHEBRCNrdC6rYq9_oYBEiQAejvRl7LC00MU abLYNr2Qghhvus5cZaPiEtk6IaZ7LTWBuUoaApGt8P8HAQ

And while it does seem like a huge hassle, I think in the end it's all worth it cause 1.) you're now an expert on it and 2.) you made it work. For me that's always the satisfaction. :) HTH.

Alex

[H2Ogbodies]

Cap:
The DEI module will operate 2 windows with auto up and dn or 4 windows with auto up or auto dn but not both directions. I was planning to use 2 modules to have auto up/dn functionality on all 4 windows.

Blitzer:
Using diodes to block the reverse voltage is a great idea, but the DEI docs state that the module will not work with relays or other solid state control modules because it needs to sense the AC noise generated by the motor to control the window movement. The diode would block this connection.

Jabin:
Are there late model, reversible motors (without self-grounding) that will bolt up to the 70's era window regulators? I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading to newer motors while I'm at it.

Thanks for all the replies.
To my knowledge-no. That isn't to say somebody doesn't offer "retrofit" motors-I haven't really looked into that tho.

[TerryD]

Here is one of my 70-79 fbody kits-it's designed to be installed cleanly under the center console and the a-bodies are similar in design but as I said it depends on what type of window motors you plan to run.

Do you have a website for "harnessworx"?
building a '73 fbody, interested in learning about this power window harness.
thanks

[H2Ogbodies]

Do you have a website for "harnessworx"?
building a '73 fbody, interested in learning about this power window harness.
thanks

I'm working on an Intuit site at the present time but you can email me for pics/additional info.
[email protected]

[H2Ogbodies]

Here's a 1970 Camaro kit going to Australia I recently built-it uses the Ford style auto down modules. This kit is designed for use with the newer style reverse polarity window motors and is a complete kit-includes IGN control master control sealed 630-series 40A relay, 30A sealed fuse protection, NEW switch and NEW door grommets.

The window kits offered by companies like Classic, Nu-Relics, etc include window motor leads with pigtails so they simply splice to my kit-done. Granted, not as inexpensive as a $60 controller but nobody else offers a factory style harness integration either.

[jsg]

I'm wanting to put one touch modules in my 64 Riviera, and the windows and regulators are large and heavy so I'm concerned about putting weak motors in. Are there different windings on these motors to make one model stronger than others? Has anyone here bolted the later reversing motors to old GM regulators? Just eyeballing them, it looks like they might bolt in but the clocking on the motor's body might be a problem.

I had also considered adding relays to increase available amps at the motors, directly after the one touch modules. Anyone know if that interferes with the modules function?

[CapSS92]

Most modules are current sensing so relays would probably gum that up. Best bet is to use a good power source and adequate wire that will handle the current. The previous poster on here, Harnessworx, seems to make good harnesses that would handle the loads. I looked at putting newer motors but you're right, it's tricky getting something to line up well. Believe it or not Ford motors seemed like they would fit better than the GM stuff I found. Most of the stock GM motors have holes clocked at 9-12-3 and it's hard to find any that line up. I went through the local junkyard and the older Fords seem have the proper type motors. You also have to factor in the teeth on the gears so they can mesh with the original regulator. I even bought some from Rockauto for $15-20 but again, lining everything up was the issue. I listed a part number earlier in this thread, DORMAN 742101, that is pretty universal. They're cheap enough at Rock that maybe you can get one to experiment. HTH.

Alex

[cdrod]

Alex:
I took your advice and purchased a later model window motor for a G-body car that is reversible, i.e. not self-grounding. I bought a Dorman#742-150 motor that has the correct diameter drive gear and tooth count as the A-body self-grounding motors I want to replace. I've done some bench testing/comparing and the G-body motors appear to turn at the same speed as the stock A-body motors, and the G-body window regulators are similar in design to the earlier A-body cars as well, so I think these motors will be able to handle the load.

The G-body motor is a completely different design than the A-body motor so mounting them will require some fabrication work. I'm in the process of making an adapter plate to mount the G-body motors to the A-body power window regulators. They will need to be clocked for clearance and also need some standoffs to mount them securely. One nice benefit of the swap: the G-body motor is about 2 lbs lighter and only draws 2-3amps (no-load) where the A-body motors draw 7-9amps (no-load). I'll post some follow-up pics after I fabricate the adapters and do a little testing to know this is a viable swap. Thank you to everyone you chimed in on my thread and helped me get to this point.

Rodney

[CapSS92]

Good to hear, let us know how it turns out.

Alex

[jsg]

Alex - I shopped around, and just ordered one from Rock Auto. Got a ACDelco 11M23 that has a 12 tooth count. I'd like to try to make this work.

Rodney - I'm now in that same boat as you. I'll be watching your post to see what you come up with. I'll also post my findings for installing on a Riv.

[CapSS92]

Yeah it's the same as the Dorman one. GM uses it in a lot of cars. Looking forward to see how you guys come out. Keep us updated. Thanks.

Alex

[H2Ogbodies]

I'm wanting to put one touch modules in my 64 Riviera, and the windows and regulators are large and heavy so I'm concerned about putting weak motors in. Are there different windings on these motors to make one model stronger than others? Has anyone here bolted the later reversing motors to old GM regulators? Just eyeballing them, it looks like they might bolt in but the clocking on the motor's body might be a problem.

I had also considered adding relays to increase available amps at the motors, directly after the one touch modules. Anyone know if that interferes with the modules function?

I've been building one touch down kits for GM applications going on 5 years now in every possible type of configuration and the motors on the self grounding older cars aren't complicated at all. The problem is the voltage loss through the switch....as well as the generally inefficient method of wiring GM used on the 60's anyway compared to today.

Using relays to act as load carrying will greatly improve the window speed-the solid state modules don't "gum up" the feature-they merely look for resistance and when they see infinite resistance they open the circuit-as in, once the window stops its travel being with fully up or down. Breaking the circuit by tapping the switch also stops the window in its tracks. The first step is a GOOD relay conversion then add the auto feature to the relays-letting the switches act as ground triggers. I have kits for 68-72 A bodies and it would be very similar to your riviera too. I also keep 70-81 Camaro/Firebird kits on hand as that is my most popular kit. If you decide to not go through the process of swapping out motors (I don't think this will work out very well but you can try it) then drop me a line. You don't have to have reverse polarity motors for auto down-but it would be required if you want auto down AND up.

[CapSS92]

Are you talking about the GM modules that you use in your kits? Maybe the GM ones work different. The reason I said it gums up the modules was due to what the DEI manuals stated. I could be wrong but here's what I found in the instruction manuals from DEI.

535-The 535T monitors the AC “noise” generated by the motion of the motor. For this
reason the 535T cannot drive relays or control modules in the system.

529-Remember that the module outputs must always be connected directly to the motors, not to a relay or any other module.

I couldn't find anything on the 530 and I'm not familiar with other manufacturers so I can't say for sure. Thanks.

Alex

[blitzer454]

Jabin,
Are you saying, on your setup, that you would need to tap the window switch when the window reaches the end of travel when using the auto up/down feature to stop the motor from grinding? I haven't studied how you connect your kits, but I assume you are using some kind of window module similar to the DEI. These modules look for an increase in current which looks more like a short not infinite resistance. If you're not connecting the output of the window module directly to the window motor then the module can not sense the change in current. In this case you would have to tap the window switch in order to get the motor to stop, but I wouldn't recommend this as a solution as it stresses the motor and the mechanical linkage inside the door.

Rodney,
Before going through the expense of buying a new motor and adapting it to work in your door why not try the diode solution I mentioned in a previous post? This diode (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/discrete-semiconductor-products/diodes-rectifiers-single/280) would work well.

[H2Ogbodies]

No-the window can be stopped anywhere in its travel. But once pressed, the solid state processor closes the (negative side) of relay coil contacts which maintain current until it sees the circuit approaching infinite resistance as determined by the type of solid state chip that GM used by Motorola-no doubt the design itself is proprietary too. Once that resistance is met, the ground circuit opens thus stopping current to the motors. It interrupts current on the ground side-not positive. For this reason, the system whether it's the motor or the relays must be grounded at rest. There isn't any debate on If it works-I've built probably 250 kits in the last 2 years in a wide variety of vehicles using both versions of GM modules as well as Ford modules. Slight differences between the two exist but they all perform the same function. Only generation II GM modules allow for auto down AND up but it requires using reverse polarity window motors.

[cdrod]

Blitzer:
I've already bought a Dorman motor ($18) worth the purchase price to experiment. I'm moving forward with the motor swap option for the following reasons:
1. The G-body motors draw much less current than the A-body motors.
2. The G-body motors are lighter.
3. The diodes might affect the operation of the DEI module.
4. The A-body motors are 40+ years old.
5. G-body motors & DEI module is more cost efficient. The GM modules are $30-40 on ebay, need 2 modules for auto up & dn on each window.

[blitzer454]

Rodney,
Got it! I hope it works out for you.

Jabin,
I guess I'm still not clear on how the GM modules work, or at least I'm not clear about the one you're using. I don't doubt that your system works, I was just trying to understand how it works. I tried looking for some info on the GM modules and I found a picture that shows a block diagram of the module and as I suspected it uses a sense resistor to monitor the motor current. So if you were to connect the output of this module to the relay coil instead of the motor then this module wouldn't work. I suspect I'm either not understanding how you connect the module or you're module works completely different. In either case I'm just going to let it go as it's not really relevant to this thread.

[CapSS92]

Blitzer, I would say if you use this circuit, which looks similiar to Jabin's, the relays source power directly to the motors and the relays get triggered by low voltage running through the stock GM switches.

http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=40530.0

Then the GM module would get wired after the relays, which would then detect the current flow and stop when it fully rises or lowers or you trigger the window switch.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93330

I went and bought one from a junkyard the other day and wired it to an El Camino I'm working on. 4 wires and it was pretty easy. Gave it auto down for the drivers side. I also bought some Ford modules but haven't had a car to install them on. I posted the links also earlier in this thread.
Overall I think the DEI module and the newer modules will work better for Rodney. I'm looking forward to see how it comes out. It's good information for anyone looking to upgrade their motors if it works out. Besides, half the fun is fabrication lol.

Alex

[H2Ogbodies]

I've thought about opening up one of the GM modules but to do so would render them useless since it would take quite a bit of work to remove the electrical potting they used to seal them. There's a lot to the circuit board on the series I modules so I imagine the series II modules are even more complex. True-possibly not pertaining to this thread but I figured if the wheel has already been invented....?

[LS1-IROC]

H2O, do you have anything for the 3rd gen f-body power windows? Cost if you do.

[H2Ogbodies]

H2O, do you have anything for the 3rd gen f-body power windows? Cost if you do.

I sure do! In fact, that's the first kit I ever offered was for the 3rd gen fbody guys! It's literally a 10 minute install once you get the console plate off and radio pod out of the way. The wiring is the easy part lol! The auto down is $114 shipped and auto down/up is $159 shipped. I extend the module harness to mount behind the radio pod area because real estate is limited for anything more than the 4-gang relay bank in the console. If you want a kit, PM me for my paypal info and I can have one coming your way!

[jsg]

Got my window motor today, and it looks like it will work on older GM regulators. It's a ACDelco 11M23 (GM #19251414) I got from RockAuto for $25. I believe it's spec'd for early 2000's Cavaliers and G30 vans. It has 12 teeth on the gear, where most others seem to be 9 teeth.

It comes with a bracket that allows it to bolt to the standard 3 bolt motor mount, and can be switched from right or left orientation. It's pretty clever. However, on my 64 Buick regulator, two of the outmost holes are 1/8" farther out, so the holes on the regulator have to be moved out. The gear matches perfectly. I tested it on a quarter window regulator and it's ok. I'll try this weekend on a door regulator.

138958

Motor and bracket

138959

Red arrows show bolt misalignment on two holes. When shaft is located, the bottom hole lines up. Just need to open the two holes up a little.

138960

Red arrows show mounting locations

138961

With bracket attached, gear is in right height location also. New motor is longer by a inch and half, but looks like it will clear the regulator.

[jsg]

That's really great info, thanks. It's starting to look like the newer reversing motors can fit my regulators. I'm going to give them a try, because they're considerably cheaper than rebuilt originals ($25 versus $100+), and I would like to have express up and down.

So to make sure I understand.... would it be possible to have power relays between the express modules (one up, one down) on a reversing motor? From my extremely limited knowledge of electricity, it seems like it wouldn't work because reversing voltage would be hitting the switch side of the relay. I think. It gives me a headache to be honest.

steve

[CapSS92]

What are you trying to accomplish with the power relays Steve? If you just want to take the load off of stock power window switches, then the modules go after the relays and they should work just fine. I didn't use relays on mine with aftermarket motors and DEI modules but I used all new switches and made my own harness with bigger wire. I'll attach a pic and you can see the switches in the center. I used a panel from a Mini Cooper. Kinda hard to see in the pic. You gotta be a certain kinda of crazy for electrical lol. I fit right in.

[CapSS92]

BTW great pics of the pw motors. Glad to see they'll fit. You're right about the cost of stock rebuilts. You can get all 4 new style for the price of 1 old style. No brainer there. Can you get some video of how fast it moves before and after? That would be a good visual.

Alex

[jsg]

What are you trying to accomplish with the power relays Steve? If you just want to take the load off of stock power window switches, then the modules go after the relays and they should work just fine. I didn't use relays on mine with aftermarket motors and DEI modules but I used all new switches and made my own harness with bigger wire. I'll attach a pic and you can see the switches in the center. I used a panel from a Mini Cooper. Kinda hard to see in the pic. You gotta be a certain kinda of crazy for electrical lol. I fit right in.

I was concerned about the motors getting enough juice. But, I tend to go overkill on most things, so I suspect it's not needed. I'm going to run my original "positive only" switches (because they're fancy chrome and match the interior), then relays after that for the voltage reversing for the modules, then the modules to the motors. I read somewhere of someone using a dc voltage amp to increase the speed of the windows. So if it's a problem, I can always add that later.

I'm currently debating if I want to make guide rollers out of PTFE instead of replacing them with the factory style. Again, over-engineering is kinda my issue.

[jsg]

BTW great pics of the pw motors. Glad to see they'll fit. You're right about the cost of stock rebuilts. You can get all 4 new style for the price of 1 old style. No brainer there. Can you get some video of how fast it moves before and after? That would be a good visual.

Alex

I'd like to have, but my windows never worked. I later figured out there was no juice from the fuse box, because that guy is rusty from a old windshield leak. That's another project, replacing that fuse box with a bunch of aircraft circuit breakers. Got the parts, just need to get to wiring!

[H2Ogbodies]

I know on the 3rd gen f-bodies I measured about 4 seconds down and 7 seconds up then after the relay upgrade w/auto down and up speed went to 2 down and 4 up. Nearly 50% increase in performance overall.

[LS1-IROC]

H2O..I sent you a PM. Thanks

[jsg]

I'm trying to figure out how to get one touch modules for up and down using the old style positive only switch, going through relays to interface with the modules, and then going to the reversing polarity motor. Attached is a wiring diagram I made, i'm trying to figure out if it will work like this.

[CapSS92]

Does the switch output positive when you hit it? If so, the only thing I can see is that you have power across 85 and 86 which wouldn't trigger the relays. You would have to ground 86. If it outputs a ground signal when you activate the switch then you should be good.

[jsg]

The switch is set to output positive like original setup. How could I get the switch to output ground? I'm not that great with electric, other than accidently letting the smoke leak out sometimes.

[CapSS92]

Don't do that!!! You'll never get all the smoke back in. ;) I think you would be fine with the switches putting out positive. Just keep terminals 87 hooked up to power. But take the 86 and 85 you have hooked up together to power and put them to ground instead. That way the positive trigger from the switch will turn on the relays. Good design on using terminal 87a to keep the motors grounded. That's a good solution.

Alex

[blitzer454]

Your circuit would work as is, except you need to replace your current switch with a SPDT Mom-Off-Mom switch and rewire the relays. A SPDT switch has 3 terminals. In your case the common terminal would be connected to ground and the other two terminals would be connected to pin 85 of each relay respectively. Pin 86 of both relays needs to be connected to the switched battery supply. When the switch is pressed in either the up or down position it will provide ground to the the relay coil thereby energizing the coil in just one of the relays.

[jsg]

Don't do that!!! You'll never get all the smoke back in. ;) I think you would be fine with the switches putting out positive. Just keep terminals 87 hooked up to power. But take the 86 and 85 you have hooked up together to power and put them to ground instead. That way the positive trigger from the switch will turn on the relays. Good design on using terminal 87a to keep the motors grounded. That's a good solution.

Alex

I can't take credit for the solenoid part, I copied it from the12volt.com, a schematic to run a power lock actuator. I was told by a gentleman from another forum that's what I needed to be able to run my old switches with a reversing motor. I'll give this a shot in a couple of days, and see what burns. I mean, works.

[CapSS92]

Awesome keep us updated.

[jsg]

Your circuit would work as is, except you need to replace your current switch with a SPDT Mom-Off-Mom switch and rewire the relays. A SPDT switch has 3 terminals. In your case the common terminal would be connected to ground and the other two terminals would be connected to pin 85 of each relay respectively. Pin 86 of both relays needs to be connected to the switched battery supply. When the switch is pressed in either the up or down position it will provide ground to the the relay coil thereby energizing the coil in just one of the relays.

I desperately want to keep my chrome '64 switches, mostly because I've already spent about $200 or so buying Cadillac ones with power locks and vent window switches integrated into the same switch. SPDT switches were actually my first consideration. The vintage switches are just a chrome metal housing with a gang of copper flat contacts inside. Thought about gutting them, and finding a way to install SPDT switches inside. I was trying to avoid it because I can't see it going well (based on my fabrication skills).

[CapSS92]

If you want to keep the positive trigger then just ground out the terminals I said and you use the original switch to trigger the relays. It's kinda like this. (also from 12volt.com)

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram49.html

I'm not sure which section you pulled the diagram from but it looks like a negative trigger system.

[H2Ogbodies]

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I desperately want to keep my chrome '64 switches, mostly because I've already spent about $200 or so buying Cadillac ones with power locks and vent window switches integrated into the same switch. SPDT switches were actually my first consideration. The vintage switches are just a chrome metal housing with a gang of copper flat contacts inside. Thought about gutting them, and finding a way to install SPDT switches inside. I was trying to avoid it because I can't see it going well (based on my fabrication skills).
You can keep your chrome switches-here is a kit I use for reverse polarity equipped applications but I also have another version for the older self grounding motors. If you want auto down AND up, it's easier to convert to later model motors which require plastic switches.

[jsg]

That's a beautiful harness. I'm going to try to build my own, but i'll probably be in contact once that one tries to catch fire.

I'm currently working on gutting old GM switches, and replacing the internals with mom on-off-mom on switches. I have some on the way, and hope to have more figured out by next weekend. It just makes more sense to eliminate potential failure points (relays, connectors, and many feet or wiring) and simplify the circuit.

[cdrod]

Guys:
The Dorman 742-150 motor comes with an adaptor with a 3-point connection layout. Unfortunately, the holes don't line up with the early A-body window regulator, so I re-drilled them to align with the regulator only to discover the adaptor limits full motion of the window regulator. So I bought some 12 ga steel plate and some 10-32 hex standoffs and made my own adaptor. I made it reversible so the same adaptor can be flipped and used for LH or RH sides. Here's a few pics:


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[jsg]

Good info. Was it the link arm hitting the adapter? I've only fitted the motor, I didn't run it through paces yet. It seems to clear ok on the rear regulators. I just compared pics to my 64 Riviera regulators, and the only big difference is your link is much closer to the edge where the teeth are. On mine, the link is much closer to the center of the gear. I suspect the Cutlass is going to be representative of GM regulators than the Riv.

[cdrod]

Yes, the short link that connects to the big toothed gear was too close to the actual teeth and the Dorman supplied adaptor would snag it as it passed by the motor. The Dorman adaptor also didn't seem to mount the motor in the same plane as the regulator, or maybe a better way to describe it is out-of-plumb or not perpendicular to the regulator gear. I thought this could cause premature gear wear or even bind up the regulator under load. So I made my own adaptor plate that you see in the pics. My application is '72 Olds Cutlass (GM A-body); regulators from other cars (B/C/E Body cars) may not have the interference problem that I ran into.

[H2Ogbodies]

So definitely not a bolt on deal.

[CapSS92]

Good job on a creative simple solution. Beats paying $400+ for aftermarket setups. Plus you get the satisfaction of creating your own. That always does it for me. I'm in the process of rewiring a 69 Camaro RS for a guy and I made the headlight door assemblies using headlight motors from a Celica (only cause the last Firebird left was stripped) and a control module from a Firebird to open and close them. Aftermarket cost - $400. Junkyard costs -$60. :)

Alex

[mokhtar]

I have a suggestion, just try this type of relays https://www.icrfq.com/category/36 , it is very economic and reliable with high quality