help on Holley HP or Fast XFI

[URBANHOTROD]

Guys I did some research and I'm stuck. Not sure which one to use now. The Fast or the Holley. Heard good things about both. I have a 5 speed BBC 502 THAT IS A weekend toy but I like a great running car so I'm now going Fuel injection. I ruled out the FITech.

Any help is appreciated greatly
Let me add the Motor is not a slouch it has a Roller cam with Dart heads.

[berdunord]

Why did you rule out the Fitech ? their MPFI version will be avaible in January-February

I ask you cause I have to change my Fitech for turbo application and I'm stuck too between their TBI power adder or a good MPFI system

[andrewb70]

Are you looking for a TBI system or multipoint?

Andrew

[URBANHOTROD]

Why did you rule out the Fitech ? their MPFI version will be avaible in January-February

I ask you cause I have to change my Fitech for turbo application and I'm stuck too between their TBI power adder or a good MPFI system

I have spoken to numerous people using it and they do not have enough fuel maps to support it. I'm a bit worried about that.

[URBANHOTROD]

Are you looking for a TBI system or multipoint?

Andrew

Mutiport basically the sequential

[andrewb70]

Mutiport basically the sequential

I have the Dominator on my Cougar, but the HP is more than adequate if you are looking for a solid EFI system. The Holley software is pretty intuitive and there is a lot of support on the Holley forum.

Do you have all of the EFI hardware already? Also, how much vacuum are you making at idle? The more vacuum at idle the better the tuning table resolution.

Andrew

[berdunord]

I have spoken to numerous people using it and they do not have enough fuel maps to support it. I'm a bit worried about that.

do you mean it's not working well with agressive camshafts ?

[URBANHOTROD]

I have the Dominator on my Cougar, but the HP is more than adequate if you are looking for a solid EFI system. The Holley software is pretty intuitive and there is a lot of support on the Holley forum.

Do you have all of the EFI hardware already? Also, how much vacuum are you making at idle? The more vacuum at idle the better the tuning table resolution.

Andrew

No I am starting from Scratch with it.

[URBANHOTROD]

do you mean it's not working well with agressive camshafts ?

That is correct. I can install a vacuum canister to help with vacuum.

[andrewb70]

That is correct. I can install a vacuum canister to help with vacuum.

A vacuum canister is not going to help. Do you know exactly how much vacuum you're pulling at idle?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

No I am starting from Scratch with it.


Do you have a budget? LOL...This won't be cheap.

Andrew

[URBANHOTROD]

No I am starting from Scratch with it.


Do you have a budget? LOL...This won't be cheap.

Andrew

Well let's say I did guess 3-4k but I'm gonna now say 3-5. I have a very good friend who tunes cars for Fast for Outlaw 10.5 so he is going to help me alot

[another69]

I am very happy with the Holley HP, but if I were in your shoes with that motor I would consider the Dominator if I had the budget. My only gripe about the HP is that it doesn't have dual O2 sensors. Otherwise the support is good and it's pretty user friendly. You could start with a TBI and upgrade to MPFI later if you wanted to while keeping the same Holley ECU. I think you can even run both at the same time with the Dominator.

[URBANHOTROD]

I am very happy with the Holley HP, but if I were in your shoes with that motor I would consider the Dominator if I had the budget. My only gripe about the HP is that it doesn't have dual O2 sensors. Otherwise the support is good and it's pretty user friendly. You could start with a TBI and upgrade to MPFI later if you wanted to while keeping the same Holley ECU. I think you can even run both at the same time with the Dominator.

Thanks!! Im looking into it today and seeing all the possibilities of doing that

[berdunord]

http://www.fueltech.net/categories/fueltech/engine-management-systems

I did not know this brand of EFI system but it looks like to be easy to install and tune.

[F-Body International]

FAST's Sportman XFI looks to be a really nice "middle of the road" system if you're to building up a tuned TBI setup.

Your easiest route to sequential port injection, however, would probably be with FAST's Dual Sync distributor. It sends the computer a cam and crankshaft signal. The dual sync distributors can also be used strictly as a cam sensor if you choose to add a true crank sensor at a later date. Cam and crank sensing is needed to tune sequentially.
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/chevy-small-big-block-dual-sync-billet-distributorhtml/

Holley actually sells an adapter so they can plug their ecu into FAST's Dual Sync setup. Any FAST, Megasquirt, Holley, Big Stuff 3 or other could work with dual sync setup. Remember, it's ultimately a sensor/computer controlled distributor. You can ultimately tune it with the proper timing control computer.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/hp_efi/hp_harnesses/parts/558-313

If you're on a budget, consider chasing down a used FAST XFI 2.0. You can actually send the ecu to FAST for service and/or upgrades. Like mentioned on the other forum, BS3 is another option.

If you feel budget concious and smart, Megasquirt could be used to control a 7/8 wire HEI from a late TBI BBC.

[URBANHOTROD]

OK so you recommend which one over the other? I'm not looking for a budget build

[berdunord]

Fueltech sent me their software, I've created a new map without modifying anything for the moment, it's really easy to enter basic settings, it gives you the wiring harness you need for your application

Price : for the Fueltech FT500 lite ( without screen ) + 10ft or 20ft unterminated FT500 harness ( do it yourself is not really difficult ) + sensors and connectors you need + 2 O2 sensors = under $2000 + intake manifold fuel rail, injectors and throttle body from FAST = about $3500 the same price as the FAST complete system

except the Fitech that is really not expensive, all the other are approx 3500 bucks

I don't want to change my Pro-billet dist and CDI box to a dual sync dist so I will be able to run semi-sequential injection with the Fueltech system

I'm still considering the Fitech Holley or FAST but this one looks really nice !

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/4477-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/4477.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/18xs-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/18xs.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/xf0w-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/xf0w.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/42sq-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/42sq.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/6zc5-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/6zc5.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/qyjj-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/qyjj.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/bv7c-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/bv7c.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/wqam-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/wqam.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/novc-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/novc.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/0nlu-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/0nlu.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/5fpy-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/5fpy.jpg)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/9v5q-1.jpg (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=16/52/9v5q.jpg)

[Fuelie Nova]

You need to go with one that you can get support on in your area. Fueltech is a great system but not that popular and may be hard to find local help. I have run Holley and Fast, currently using the Holley Dominator. To me its a no brainer, Holley hands down. I have had zero issues with the Holley and when you have questions the internet support is fantastic.
Holley call in support is not so good, Fast's support just down right sucks.
IMO it seems like Fast is more sensitive to noise than Holley, every time I called Fast they would tell me I had a noise problem with no solution to help. When I wired up Holley with the same electrical system no noise problems. I do control wiring for a living so my wiring was solid.
I feel Holley put a lot of time into the user interface, IMO much easier than Fast.
Good luck
Tom

[F-Body International]

OK so you recommend which one over the other? I'm not looking for a budget build

You more so will have to pick your poison and run with it. Generally most EFI systems do the same thing but your friends and the forums you talk to will probably talk you into "the best" decision for you. Many times when you see poor reviews, it is also accompanied by a poor install. Be wary of what someone reasons is better/worse or good/bad on this subject. Here's a quick generalization I have of what people use after surfing on different forums.
-This forum tends to like Holley, FiTech and FAST.
-On the Yellow Bullet forum, you will find people with Megasquirt, Big Stuff 3, Haltech or Fueltech.
-The LS1Tech forum will have a bunch of people running with GM computers tuned by HP Tuners or EFI Live.

Megasquirt is awesome because there are so many people on forums/message boards with useful advice on how to address issues you may have. Megasquirt users use a tuning software called Tunerstudio. If you're after a good software, then this may be the ticket for you. Just because I mentioned budget, doesn't mean Megasquirt products are cheap. Like any other system, the parts add up but Megasquirt products you can either run a low-priced MS2 kit from them that will batch fire and control timing or spend $1k+ on an MS3-Pro that is able to run just about any engine out there.

Here's a link to some Megasquirt MS2 carb-to-efi kits...
https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/package-deals/carb-to-efi/

Here's a great 3 part write-up showing how to convert an old carbureted Nova to efi...
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/chevrolet-gm/carb-to-efi/

Here's a link to where you download the Tunerstudio software which is used for Megasuirt...
http://www.tunerstudio.com/

Here's video showing how a Megaquirt is wired into a car...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVNuBR4Jg4Y

[berdunord]

You need to go with one that you can get support on in your area. Fueltech is a great system but not that popular and may be hard to find local help. I have run Holley and Fast, currently using the Holley Dominator. To me its a no brainer, Holley hands down. I have had zero issues with the Holley and when you have questions the internet support is fantastic.
Holley call in support is not so good, Fast's support just down right sucks.
Tom

you are right about fueltech local help ! but they have a fantastic support on facebook ( UK or USA )

I've just download the Holley software and watch a video how to install a dual sync dist by Holley, I beleive it was more difficult and the sofware looks pretty easy to tune.

A friend who has a lot of knowledge in EFI told me that the Link G4 ECU ( Storm or Xtrem ) are very good too but not really cheap

http://www.speedtechnz.com/shop/brands/link/Link+G4+Storm+Wire-in+Engine+Management+System.html

[z28orshoot]

Having used both, all my personal cars use Holley dominator. The software is easy to use and with V4 advanced tables you can do almost anything you can think of. Most all name brand EFI ecu can do the same thing but look into growing down the road. N2o, boost, meth injection,traction control, transmission controller etc. Holley is one box, not several add on boxes of modules.

If you dont need many inputs or outputs then the Holley HP ecu will do. If you can do with 4 ins and 4 outs then the HP ecu will work. The Holley will allow you to grow. AS with most systems you can tune in speed density, alpha n or a combo. Most everyones helps lines are severely lacking in the CS dept.

If you are going to have someone else tune it, then use what they prefer. As you can tell my vote goes to Holley.

[berdunord]

is the holley hp or FAST XFI 2.0 system easy to tune for E85 ? compatible with dual O2 sensors ? and compatible with a knock sensor ?

[z28orshoot]

yes, it is the same as gas, change a drop down box, or use a flex fual sensor and advanced tables for fuel and spark compensation . yes dual o2 sensors(you can pick leanest, richest, average or individuals) , and yes knock sensorsup to 2 and have frequency control so you dont have to use a specific sensor . cant remember on the FAST.

[berdunord]

ok thx that's cool but is it nor only the dominator ECU that can control 2 O2 sensors ?

[TerryD]

Also, how much vacuum are you making at idle? The more vacuum at idle the better the tuning table resolution.

Andrew


Andrew, sorting out the same question for my build with a 505 Pontiac. What would you consider adequate idle vacuum? I haven't run the engine yet but I did have it dynoed so I think they can tell me what vacuum it produced at idle.

[andrewb70]

Andrew, sorting out the same question for my build with a 505 Pontiac. What would you consider adequate idle vacuum? I haven't run the engine yet but I did have it dynoed so I think they can tell me what vacuum it produced at idle.

My Cougar idles at about 45-50 kPa...which is about 13-14 inches of mercury...I would consider that the minimum for a street car.

Andrew

[Danny Cabral]

My engine idles great around 58 kPa (12 inHg vacuum). If the engine has a large race camshaft (can't maintain a steady kPa value because vacuum fluctuates too much), it will idle better using Alpha-N Idle Fuel - Fuel ICF ("Combo" Load Sensing in Engine Parameters - System ICF).