Hotchkis Arms jacked up on 67 Firebird

[salesguy01]

I have the full offering of Hotchkis on my 67 Firebird. This is the problem and I hope it makes sense.. It will not get lower than -1.9 camber on the Pass Side.

Here is a pic with the offset bar flipped to show how much camber is built in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/06/20150616_214117_zps7rildi5u-1.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/dhessco/media/1967%20Firebird/20150616_214117_zps7rildi5u.jpg.html)

Once again I know this pic is installed with the bar flipped was just a test... But when I flip it over the best alignment spec is still almost -2 camber which is wayyyy to much for just street driving. the driver side has plenty of adjustment even flipped it not nearly like this passenger side.

The following pic is alignment specs with the stock uppers
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/20150623_112130_zps1audkdci-1.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/dhessco/media/1967%20Firebird/20150623_112130_zps1audkdci.jpg.html)


as you can see acceptable range. I now have these $700 tube a arms off the car running stock uppers. it is killing me to do so!! Hotchkis was not much help.

Looking for some meaningful input. I have full TVS kit

[bryant]

Chances are the frame on that side is leaning inward. Pretty common on the f body sub frame. they make offset center shafts for the stock arms to correct for this. Probably need to put the car on a frame rack and have it pulled back straight or get an aftermarket sub frame.

[Rod]

yes sounds like the upper mounts are bent, happened a lot on old cars, someone may have tagged a curb its life and you cant see it vsually and many alignment shop just shim the crap out of stuff anyways, and stock arms often have over a half of inch of shim stack anyways, so for a shop to take them all out they dont care

[DT69Cam]

Global west STREET recommendations :
Drivers side----------------------- Pass side
Caster 5 degree's pos----------- Caster 5 1/2 degree's pos
Camber 0 to 1/2 degree neg--- Camber 0 to 1/2 degree neg
toe to toe-in 3/32 total---------- toe to toe-in 3/32 total

[ra11ysport]

How can it be about the same when the bar is flipped cause it should be around 2deg difference flipped. Just trying to understand. I would lay a plumb bob over the fender and measure it out. On a 18in rim a 1/4in is around .8 i would just build it out with washers. My 67 camaro had a ton of shims on it prolly about a 1/2in on each side.

[badazz81z28]

How low is the car? If the springs drop the car significantly that naturally increase the negative camber. Possibly even worse with stock lower A-arms. You might have some droop in the frame, but I really doubt it. The Hotchkis arms have camber built in and on my 78 camaro I ran no shims on one side and probably a 1/16 on the driver for caster. It had a lot a camber, more then -1.5 and that's the best I could get. The lowering coils is what does it

[salesguy01]

How low is the car? If the springs drop the car significantly that naturally increase the negative camber. Possibly even worse with stock lower A-arms. You might have some droop in the frame, but I really doubt it. The Hotchkis arms have camber built in and on my 78 camaro I ran no shims on one side and probably a 1/16 on the driver for caster. It had a lot a camber, more then -1.5 and that's the best I could get. The lowering coils is what does it

2 inch lower, using all the Hotchkis parts. shocks, springs,sway-bar

-2 camber looks like this
only 1 shim on passenger side (trouble side)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/06/20150616_220431_zpspggqrh2q-1.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/dhessco/media/1967%20Firebird/20150616_220431_zpspggqrh2q.jpg.html)

Then driver side (which has plent of adjustment room) has a big shim stack,.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/20150616_162848_zpsak9dpelg-1.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/dhessco/media/1967%20Firebird/20150616_162848_zpsak9dpelg.jpg.html)

The point is -2 camber is just way to much right? thats the best the alignment shop could do so they would be equal. so i took them off and put stock uppers with offset shafts

[David Pozzi]

Global west STREET recommendations :
Drivers side----------------------- Pass side
Caster 5 degree's pos----------- Caster 5 1/2 degree's pos
Camber 0 to 1/2 degree neg--- Camber 0 to 1/2 degree neg
toe to toe-in 3/32 total---------- toe to toe-in 3/32 total

You should be using the above alignment specs.
Uneven shims can be due to uneven ride height side to side. Check your ride height side to side by measuring down from the front upper alignment shim bolt to the floor. Your ride height may also be too low. The lower the ride height, the more negative your camber will be, also positive caster increases because the rear UCA pivot is lower than the front.
Your upper A arm mount should measure 30 1/4" to 30 5/16" apart face to face in line with the front bolts. Sometimes subframes sag in the middle and the sides pull inward. You can measure it by running a stick or rod across the fenders and dangling a plumb bob or weight on a string on each side, then measure from the strings.

[salesguy01]

You should be using the above alignment specs.
Uneven shims can be due to uneven ride height side to side. Check your ride height side to side by measuring down from the front upper alignment shim bolt to the floor. Your ride height may also be too low. The lower the ride height, the more negative your camber will be, also positive caster increases because the rear UCA pivot is lower than the front.
Your upper A arm mount should measure 30 1/4" to 30 5/16" apart face to face in line with the front bolts. Sometimes subframes sag in the middle and the sides pull inward. You can measure it by running a stick or rod across the fenders and dangling a plumb bob or weight on a string on each side, then measure from the strings.

Thanks David,

It does have the "GM Lean" even with ALL new Hotchkis as in everything they make for the 1st gen f-body.. Im going to bring it to a frame shop to do a full measurement and if needed put it on the frame machine.

[David Pozzi]

Take a good look at your subframe mounts first. If they are original they are likely collapsed & rotten.