Why do people wanna bury Pro-Touring already?

[trapin]

I don't understand this. Did the Pro-Street people have to go through this way back in the day too?

How old would you say Pro-Touring is so far? 10 years? 15 years? You wanna go back to Big Red's incarnation? Mark Stielow's Tri-Tip? Huntimer's Brutal. Alright, lets start the clock at around 1993. Fair? And how long has it been in the mainstream? How 'bout a conservative 5 to 7 years. You've got to admit that thats when it really started to go mainstream...am I off?

Alright...now that that's out of the way.

I just got back from Team Camaro a few minutes ago and was reading a post that Jody Bernard put up about the Baldwin Motion Camaro. This guy jumps in and comments how he feels (and I'm going to quote him here) that "THE WHOLE GEE-MACHINE THING IS SO LAST YEAR".

Now...this isn't the only time I've seen this 'new' attitude toward Pro-Touring. I've also heard it alluded to at car shows and amongst people I've met in and around hot rodding. I don't get it. It's like their trying to WILL us away. If they can't make us go away then they're going to try and WILL us away. How in the name of all creatures big and small can Pro-Touring ALREADY be dated after only 5-7 years in the spotlight??!!!

I'm either on to something here or I've been under the influence of some powerful medication lately and it's all been just a bad nightmare.

Anyone else notice this lately? Anyone?

Are those crickets I hear chirping. :hmm:

[Derek69SS]

You're not the only one... it seems like you constantly have to explain yourself to "justify" wanting a SAFE car with 17" wheels and 13" brakes because it's a "fad", yet the same people would have no problem advising a guy on how to run 12s on drum-brakes and bias-ply tires.

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

im thinking it should be the other way arround ....as for people tryin to restore as original that is like played out ....every time you go to a show you only see a few original restored cars everything else is all modified either with a different engine or wheels or interior ...i would say some people just get stuck on their own stuff just like I like pro-touring cars i would say the same thing about a car that wont fit my style lol ....i bet we all be like *who would put a.....on their car * lol as in those wheels or stereo or exhaust tips blah blah

[BonzoHansen]

Well, remember TC is geared more towards restorations. I’d let that comment alone.

As far a general negative attitude (which I have not heard), who gives a f&#k!

[GBodyGMachine]

I agree. I am new to the game. But in my opinion it doesnt get any better than a G-Machine.
1. It looks good
2. It handles
3. It stops
4. It is fast in a straight line.
5. Its Low

Doesnt this cover most of the bases except resto?

I wouldnt call this a FAD, but a Collaboration of all the different angles you can build a car to be.

Who doesnt want a Modern 60's, 70's, or 80's muscle car that will out-do a new Vette?

But all in all, to each his own. I do what I like because I like it, not to impress others.

JEff Shortt

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Pro-Touring is not a fad and it's not a style, it's a genre of car enthusiasts who want to better the all around performance of their vehicles. We want to be able to stand as one with road racers, auto crossers, drag racers, street cruisers, and top speed runners; knowing that although our cars may not be the best for each individual situation, we can still hold our own in any of them. This desire will never cease to exist, there will always be individuals who want the best possible all around performance.

To tell you the truth, I absolutely can't stand stock restorations. They do NOTHING for me as stock is boring. In my opinion, the only cars that should be left unmolested, are those that are extremely rare. For example: the original baldwin motions, yenkos, ZL1s, Copos, LS6 Chevelles, Hemi Cuda converts, etc. Anything else-- cut it up and make it faster. The fact is, muscle cars were slow. Sure they were fast for their time, but compared to modern performance machines, they are slow. Even at their own game-- straight line racing, my bone stock (well, when it was bone stock), '01 SS would out accelerate nearly ever muscle car made from 1967-1973, supercars such as the BM Phase III need not apply. And that's while running a mere 12.9 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I do not consider my SS to be a "fast" car, either. If they want to have 15 second cars, that can't handle or stop worth a damn, that is their perogative. Me? I'll take a corner carving, drag strip tearing, auto cross ripping g-Machine any day of the week.

Trepidation? Never. Pro-Touring will always exist for me.

[JayR]

I saw that post too and I'd say it's sour grapes about not getting trophies for his tired old pro streeter anymore. Would anyone who was at SEMA this year say P-T is dead? P-T may as well have been the official theme of this year's show because of all the fine and varied examples there.
Furthermore, Look at all the new cars that are basically modern versions of what we've been doing for quite a while like SRT Chargers, GTOs, the new Mustang, etc. New versions of classic musclecars with big hp, big wheels, and big brakes for all around performance.
In short, it's only going to get bigger and diversity will help keep it growing and some people love to hate!

[Bill Howell]

Well Ralph, being a bit older, I see both sides. While, no doubt, I am on the protouring side of things, but I have been on the other side of the fence too. I can remembering hating to see a nice restorable car turned into a prostreet car. I just did not get it. Stock is cool and has its place in the hobby, if for nothing else, future reference. The problem I have with stockers is most of those people are anal to the point of being boring. This bolt is wrong, that clamp is incorrect, who cares. On our side of the hobby people can be more individual with their build. Every month here we see a new slant on building a 69 camaro. After SEMA, and seeing things like Tyler's spindles, Lateral Dymanic's rearend and other pieces, I am again looking for a good starter body. Now, if I was to find a matching number car, I certainly wouldn't protour it, but there are plenty donors out there for both sides of the sport. Like anything else in life, usually the naysayers are really the uninformed. It isn't that they hate us, they just do not understand us, and we have to inform them. Then if they still don't get it, fine, let um be. Is protouring dead, not if I have anything to do with it, it isn't. We are just finishing the goat and already I am trying to decide how to do the next one....

[BonzoHansen]

Come on Ralph, there is room for all. :) I love a beautiful restoration (and I don’t mean the big $$ numbers match ones). But I hated pro-street from day one with their pastel colors and un-drivable cars. :P

My thought is that you can’t kill P/T because it is often so passive. Hell, a lot of the changes are unseen. Pro-street was over the top. You can’t miss one. These are cars that can be driven. But that was all covered in the ‘what is P/T’ thread. Solid performance drivers will never die!

But in the end, you do as you like.

[kennyd]

this is the same thing that was said about pro-street ,it lasted for over 20 yrs !sametime as the mullett=prostreet ,,,,,,,? back to the subject .as JayR said look at sema this year thats all that was there .

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Come on Ralph, there is room for all. :) I love a beautiful restoration (and I don’t mean the big $$ numbers match ones). But I hated pro-street from day one with their pastel colors and un-drivable cars. :P

My thought is that you can’t kill P/T because it is often so passive. Hell, a lot of the changes are unseen. Pro-street was over the top. You can’t miss one. These are cars that can be driven. But that was all covered in the ‘what is P/T’ thread. Solid performance drivers will never die!

But in the end, you do as you like.
After seeing Bill's and your response, maybe I came off a little too aggressive in my post, and perhaps I didn't do a good job of making my point. When I said, cut up everything that isn't rare, I was more so referring to what I would do if it were my car. If someone wants to tow around their bone stock plain-Jane '69 Camaro to a car show, proceed to start it up and parade around the fair grounds before parking, that is fine. However, for me it is all about driving the car, and enjoying the performance you've fashioned. In the simplest of terms, a car that is used for nothing more than its aesthetic and historical attraction (i.e.: sitting idle at a car show, rolling on and off a trailer, etc.) is less of an automobile, and more an art piece.

With that being said, I still do enjoy some stock cars.

[BonzoHansen]

I know what you meant. :usa: restore hater.... :) (j/k!)

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I know what you meant. :usa: restore hater.... :) (j/k!)

:1st:

[Bill Howell]

I don't understand this.

I'm either on to something here or I've been under the influence of some powerful medication lately and it's all been just a bad nightmare

You and Ralph on the same thing? :lmao: :lmao:

[Steve1968LS2]

The world is full of haters.. we get letters from them every day..

Ignore them and leave them to their 15" Craigars and chalk marks..

[toxicz28]

I'm either on to something here or I've been under the influence of some powerful medication lately and it's all been just a bad nightmare.

:hmm:

You're either on to something, or you're on something? Hmmmmm..:dunno:

Actually, it's because it has a name. If it didn't have a name, nobody would care.

[ProdigyCustoms]

As a former restorer, I can honestly say

"Anyone can restore one, it takes a real man to cut one up" If you bring it to us, the cutting tools are coming out!

[parsonsj]

My take on restoration is this: there's no creativity or imagination or risk-taking at all.

What's the fun in that?

jp

[DanT69]

To each his own, a wise man once said. I pretty much like everything, of course there are some exceptions and I only know it when I see it.

Of course being here my emphasis is on the "PT" style, but I do love a lot of vintage stuff '50s & '60s style does it for me too.

[toxicz28]

As a former restorer, I can honestly say

"Anyone can restore one, it takes a real man to cut one up" If you bring it to us, the cutting tools are coming out!


First, I agree with that to an extent.
Now a question, Would you cut it up if it was super rare?

[andrewb70]

Personally I could give a rat's a** about what some random guy thinks about our build style. To take it a bit further, I really hope that it DOESN'T catch on more. I like having a car that looks unique.

Andrew

[nancejd]

I wonder why any of us care what other people think of our cars in the first place?

To me, I try and see the effort that people have put into their cars, even if it isn't what I'd do to my own car. A really correct restoration takes a lot of effort, it isn't easy tracking down some items, especially if you are avoiding reproductions. Try finding an original rear luggage rack for a '69 Camaro for instance (they do exist). Not what I would do with my own time, but I think it is cool that some people want to keep those kinds of things in circulation.

Personally, I'd rather have a fun car to drive, but again that's me.

I think one of the cool things about the car hobby in general is that there is room for everyone.

[ProdigyCustoms]

First, I agree with that to an extent.
Now a question, Would you cut it up if it was super rare?

Well, Honest to God, just tonight as I was hauling in our newest project, a real 68 SS 396 / 4 speed Chevelle, matching numbers throughout, we are doing a mild Pro Tour treatment to, I got another call to, ready for this......... to mini tub a true number matching 68 Z28! Get me the plazma cutter! After that, we want to junk the 302 and put a real motor in it! Those things never had enough tire or horsepower anyway.

Would I cut it if it was mine? hell no, I would do what i suggested to this guy, sell it and use the money to build a killer PT car. Will we cut his, oh yeah, if that is what he wants.

Now I will have to sleep with one eye open at night in fear of the Camaro resto gods!

[vintageracer]

I am a Corvette guy for 30 years, had one since age 16. I cannot tell you how many restored 1967 427/435HP Corvettes I have seen. Neat, nice but all the same with the exception of the color and not driveable at all! All the NCRS (National Corvette Restorers Society) Corvette weenies want to create the virtually the same car all restored to the "as it left the factory" standard. That's great and I have been a member of NCRS for years however I have never owned or wanted an NCRS type of car.

When I did a "frame-off" restoration of my wife's perfectly original 67 convertible I handed her the option/color list for 67 and said "order your new Corvette". She did! We color changed the interior and exterior color on a car that was 46K mile car correct down to the dated shock abosrbers. Everything we changed was available color and option wise in 67 however just not original to her car. I put all the chalk marks and plating on all the parts. I added options and also included tubular front A arms and a full Vette Brakes transverse spring front suspension and rear suspension upgrades. Everything is bolt on except the paint color change.

Stock can be cool however you are the one who ultimately must like your car. Build it to meet your needs and the next time some gives Sh%t about your Pro-Touring car, just ask them "Let's see your car?" My experience has been the person criticizing your car either does not have a car at all or it's rolling junk!

[trapin]

Personally I could give a rat's a** about what some random guy thinks about our build style. To take it a bit further, I really hope that it DOESN'T catch on more. I like having a car that looks unique.
I would concur...I could care less about this guy too. My beef isn't with him or what he thinks about Pro-Touring. And I don't mean for this thread to turn into a whole philosophical debate on the meaning of Pro-Touring and "Hey....build what you like, to each his own". What I'm trying to understand is why is there this effort at foot (albeit small) to dismiss our build style as some passing fad that had it's day in the sun and now it's time to leave so they can get their Pro-Street universe back. Why the hate? Why the sarcastic remarks? Where's the f*&%#ing comaraderie that should exist between Pro-Street and Pro-Touring? Why can't these people look at Pro-Touring and say, "Hey...I finally get it...I see what you're doing, it all makes sense to me now".




Ahh good God what's the point....this whole discussion is probably futile anyway. I was just blowin' off steam I guess.

Sorry for the disturbance. I'm off to bed now.

[vanzuuk1]

"they only made two hundred and five with the almond interior and the automatic on the column and the walnut door inserts"

WHO CARES!

Thats my take on the resto thing.I wouldnt cut up a copo car, but I would take it out and smoke the tires.

[yody]

Personally I could give a rat's a** about what some random guy thinks about our build style. To take it a bit further, I really hope that it DOESN'T catch on more. I like having a car that looks unique.

Andrew
I'll second that, its almost getting to the point, where i don't even want to mention pro-touring, as all the posers already think that anything with big wheels and baer brakes qualifies. man these threads sure do pop up a lot

[Ralph LoGrasso]

"they only made two hundred and five with the almond interior and the automatic on the column and the walnut door inserts"

WHO CARES!

Thats my take on the resto thing.I wouldnt cut up a copo car, but I would take it out and smoke the tires.

Exactly. Who cares how many they made with this option or that. My '01 is 1 (#177) of only 6772 SS' built in 2001. If the automotive hobby continues to grow, and American cars are still coveted 30 years from now; I'm sure it will be considered a pretty rare car in 2035. I could care less, though -- I'm still modifying the hell out of it.

I will also agree with Andrew and Yody to a degree; not in that I don't want the pro-touring genre to continue to grow, but rather I'd like to see it grow with members that know what it is all about, such as those on this website.

[OHCbird]

Who cares; Pro Street isn't dead, it's still with the guys that like it. Pro tour is the same way- although I still see it growing.

Now- explaining PT to the spousal unit; that's another story!

[67LS1T56]

Who cares what other peopler says.
When I saw the big red and Mark Stielow's white car I said to myself "This is it a car should be like this not like that Pro Street crap." I allways had a love for rally cars and they meant to handle not just going straight like a regular car.
This trend will never die as long as we like well balanced handling machine. You never know we might perfect the handling part and got tired of it and we all pro street out cars. LOL

[Smoke'm]

Well, Honest to God, just tonight as I was hauling in our newest project, a real 68 SS 396 / 4 speed Chevelle, matching numbers throughout, we are doing a mild Pro Tour treatment to, I got another call to, ready for this......... to mini tub a true number matching 68 Z28! Get me the plazma cutter! After that, we want to junk the 302 and put a real motor in it! Those things never had enough tire or horsepower anyway.

Would I cut it if it was mine? hell no, I would do what i suggested to this guy, sell it and use the money to build a killer PT car. Will we cut his, oh yeah, if that is what he wants.

Now I will have to sleep with one eye open at night in fear of the Camaro resto gods!

Frank your in trouble now!!! I am going back to the other board and tell them your cutting up good cars.....:hand:














..yea you might wanna keep one eye open, LOL

[Big $$$]

What works will always be in style, lets be honest 17and 18 inch wheels will

outperform

19s 20s 22s 23s 24s 26s.... That just a fad. Always remember what works will

always be in style. The first time I saw 17s on a truck I thought it was weird. Then I

thought 18s were crazy. I poopoo'd when i saw 20's it was weird looking. Just like those

dubb city cars, those things dont look so crazy anymore. Rims that dont look

proportionate to the car will fade out. 17 and 18s work and will always be "in"

The only bad part is, 17s and 18s look like a wall flower next to 20s, so let the fighting

continue.

[Jim Nilsen]

If you look around here and notice the number of members and think of how many of them have cars in car magazines and then look at how many of them don't have their car even done yet and you will start to see the ratio of success that the P/T movement has had already.
When the real brunt of the movement finally gets their cars done it will make an impact that will grow like this site has. It took more than a year for this site to grow beyond a 1st gen take over and then finally get some other people to show up. Once it started to open up the number of high tech post really perked up an interest of the whole car industry and we started to see engineers and designers show up. Then builders and parts suppliers. The interest is truly motivated by inspiration of what is new and cutting edge. Some people just feel out of place since there aren't enough of us to give them the saftey in numbers kind of feeling.

This type of movement will never die and it will not ever be for everyone. The intimidation factor alone keeps people lurking and not desire to come forth. I dreamed about my car building days since I was young and never had enough money to do anything but dream. Then one day I decide that no matter how long it took me I was going to build the car of my dreams. It turned out to be accepted here and here I am. That is why it is more a genre than a kind of car. Going on more than 12 years later ,and yes 1993 was the year I decide to go with the C4 suspension ,I am just about to have the Cormaro done. It has a final vision of what it is going to be and it will be as fresh and new as anything out there in many ways and it will be as old and outdated by many cars that have been in a lot of magazines already. The one off fully fabricated parts that make it up will keep it unique in a room full of cars that have been started in the last five years when more parts have become available than ever before.

I will never be intimidated by the people who don't like my car and can't understand as long as I can come here and have the friends, aquaintances and admirers that believe in what I do. I was ridiculed by so many people in the beginning of my build that if this was going to die anytime soon I better start writing a has been joke book of P/T car building to keep me from crying in my beer! Instead I think I will keep celebrating each little acheivement with a toast to all that understand :cheers:

Jim Nilsen

[MrQuick]

I say who give a crap about that...I hope it dies down cause the thing that is making it suck is its popularity. It was nice when it was a rare to see them. Don't let the newbi morons bring you down Tony. f- em

[Ackattack]

I can say that I appreciate the work that goes into restoring a car to a factory original. My take on cars is to improve on what the factory put out. In the case of pro-touring it is a large improvement through better technology and developement of the car.

I guess I've really been into pro-touring before I even knew what "Pro-touring" was. I got my pickup in 1997 and I made up a list of all the things I wanted to do to it (realize I was 17, really just started learning about vehicles and money had a different concept) Now 8 years later I've learned a whole bunch about vehicles (mech. engineer), have developed my "style" of vehicle, and I'm now nearly in the financial position to start on a true all out pro touring car (I mean a truck is pretty tough to be pro-touring with out spending big buck :) )

So while I might be somewhat new to pro-touring in the fact that I don't even have a pro-touring car, pro-touring has always been in the back of my head.

[DeepBlue68]

This guy jumps in and comments how he feels (and I'm going to quote him here) that "THE WHOLE GEE-MACHINE THING IS SO LAST YEAR"......

.....Now...this isn't the only time I've seen this 'new' attitude toward Pro-Touring. What I'm trying to understand is why is there this effort at foot (albeit small) to dismiss our build style as some passing fad that had it's day in the sun and now it's time to leave so they can get their Pro-Street universe back. Why the hate? Why the sarcastic remarks?
Because the "Pro-Touring" that these people are referring to (IMO) is probably either:
1. The stock '69 Camaro with big TT2's, a disc brake conversion, and some Autometer gauges (what you see every Camaro advertised as on eBay now), or
2. What most people on this site refer to as "Show Touring" - the car with 20"+ wheels, big brakes, slammed to the ground (not to start that discussion again, but you know what I mean - the car that is way past the point of being about performance)

Because you can't hardly look anywhere anymore without seeing a car that is advertised as "Pro-Touring" (like eBay as I mentioned above), there are probably a lot of people that are getting sick of seeing it. I mean, to give the Pro-Street, completely stock, or whoever guys credit, they probably know enough of what Pro-Touring is basically about to look at all those watered-down "P-T" cars and roll their eyes like we do.

And as far as the "Show Touring" cars go, I think that style of show car will probably die out when the rest of the " blingin' " style that is infecting almost all car styles right now does. The Pro-Touring that we know, however, will be around for a long time, because, as Ralph said, it isn't a style, fad, etc. It's a way to build a car to its highest potential, combining the best of many different aspects of car building.

That's my take on it :drive:

[Norwoodx55]

Pro-Touring is not a fad and it's not a style, it's a genre of car enthusiasts who want to better the all around performance of their vehicles. We want to be able to stand as one with road racers, auto crossers, drag racers, street cruisers, and top speed runners; knowing that although our cars may not be the best for each individual situation, we can still hold our own in any of them. This desire will never cease to exist, there will always be individuals who want the best possible all around performance.

To tell you the truth, I absolutely can't stand stock restorations. They do NOTHING for me as stock is boring. In my opinion, the only cars that should be left unmolested, are those that are extremely rare. For example: the original baldwin motions, yenkos, ZL1s, Copos, LS6 Chevelles, Hemi Cuda converts, etc. Anything else-- cut it up and make it faster. The fact is, muscle cars were slow. Sure they were fast for their time, but compared to modern performance machines, they are slow. Even at their own game-- straight line racing, my bone stock (well, when it was bone stock), '01 SS would out accelerate nearly ever muscle car made from 1967-1973, supercars such as the BM Phase III need not apply. And that's while running a mere 12.9 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I do not consider my SS to be a "fast" car, either. If they want to have 15 second cars, that can't handle or stop worth a damn, that is their perogative. Me? I'll take a corner carving, drag strip tearing, auto cross ripping g-Machine any day of the week.

Trepidation? Never. Pro-Touring will always exist for me.
I'm with you here Ralph, stock resto's do NOTHING for me either. I can honestly say that I walk right past them at car shows. They look exactly the same as the ones I have seen for the last umpteen years. BORE-ING. Now if it has been modified, I want to see it. What was done to actually improve some aspect of performance; braking, cornering, accell. etc. That is what I hate about all the import, lowrider, truck modifying. It is all about the looks. In many cases the "cool looks" actually hurt the performance. Makes no sense to me.

[TonyL]

That is what I hate about all the import, lowrider, truck modifying.
I dunno, some of us do both. Im working on a minitruck with my son that will be lowered, and it'll handle far better than stock. Some of the "import" crowd gets it. I've seen some of those cars put down impressive times at the track. both the quarter and the road race tracks. So all is not lost. This pro-touring hatred comes from a lack of understanding, and broad generalisations about it. Its up to us to define pro-touring through our actions. Pro-street started out as a promod car on the street, and became full blown show ponys. At least it seemed that way... the magazines pushed these cars down our throats until we were sick of them, the bar kept being raised every issue. Until, attention wained and pro-touring was born out of people wanting a car they could actually drive. This process is starting all over again. Shows like overhaulin' and rides focus all the attention on the extreme. It makes acceptance to our club seem impossible to those without the resources. Frustration is building. without careful sprinklings of the "real" cars into the mainstream that frustration will push our movement aside and something else will take its place.

I will always be a pro-tourer. I was one before anyone had thought up a word for it.
There are guys who'll never change. (that guy with the orange 69 that's jacked up with the airshocks for example) And thats cool. Stay true to what moves you and this style of build will never die out.

[David Pozzi]

Someone told me at SEMA that "Muscle cars are now the new Street Rods"
I think Pro-Street started the major chopping up of Muscle cars. Pro-Touring cars have evolved into some projects that have as much fab work in them as the Pro-Streeters, just with different goals. Now the PT "look" is getting ink in all the mags and is getting adopted by many, but a lot of them aren't into the performance or handling goals we are, they just like the PT look. As we see more and more Pro-Touring style cars in print and on the street, some people are going to get fed-up with what they see as "all the hype".

I like stock restorations, it reminds me of the way the cars used to look. I don't want to own one though, I had stock back in the day, and moved on. I have a buddy with a restored 69 and he doesn't even want to take the car out of the garage anymore. It can only be scratched or damged if he does. He has another car that is driven a lot, it's got original paint and is nothing special, but he doesn't worry about messing it up.

[Rick Dorion]

I've been modifying my cars and motorcycles (all makes - domestic and imported) with better brakes, ignition, suspension, motor, etc. since the 60's and don't really care what labels are thrown around. I appreciate them all. At Carlisle, I've enjoyed seeing originals and modified cars, both. Everyone has an opinion which is fine. Life's too short to get very bothered by different views. There's room for everyone.

[CraigMorrison]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/11/prestonprestonyoungeinsteinvi-1.jpg
Somebody said PT is dead ...... on the IN-TAR-NET!?!?! Well then it must be true.

Boys, it's time to break out the MR. Gasket scoops, neon pinstriping kits and the 33X21.5 MT's. Tell your barber not trim any off of the back, cause the mullet is comming back.

[Steve Chryssos]

I consulted with a leading automotive psycho-analyst, Dr. Lugnutz, on the subject. He concluded the following:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

"Ze Pro-Street enthooziast suffers from ze function envy"

Anyone who has built a full-on pro-streeter knows that they have ruined a perfectly good automobile. The goofy tires and 4.88's get old quick, so they make lousy street cars. And most pro-streeters are weak at the dragstrip, so they make lousy race cars, too. Ultimately, the resale values tell the tale.

The next time a pro-street guy gets in your $#!t, feel sorry for him.

[TPI Monte SS]

I like stock restorations, it reminds me of the way the cars used to look. I don't want to own one though, I had stock back in the day, and moved on. I have a buddy with a restored 69 and he doesn't even want to take the car out of the garage anymore. It can only be scratched or damged if he does. He has another car that is driven a lot, it's got original paint and is nothing special, but he doesn't worry about messing it up.

One of my parents' neighbors has an all original '72 Chevelle SS 396. He bought the car new in '72 when he graduated from highschool, and parked it in the garage a year later. It has ~8K miles on it. He backs it out of the garage a few times a year, changes the oil and gas, and then it goes back to sleep.

He used to own a Monte SS, but it was bone stock. Anytime the car needed parts, he went to the dealer to get them. Mufflers, tailpipes, etc. all bought from the dealer!?? For the price of one muffler and tailpipe, he coulda bought a complete catback system. :)

He still doesn't understand my car either. "Why did you modify it??" he asks all the time. My answer, "Cause these cars SUCKED from the factory!"

[parsonsj]

"Why did you modify it??" he asks all the time.

I get that question too. My answer: I'm not going to let some engineer from 40 years ago tell me how my car should work.

jp

[CAMAROBOY69]

Guys like that just need to be ignored. Period. Just because he isnt building a pro-touring car he is going to battle against it and say its "old news" or "outdated" bla bla bla
Just ignore him and go about your day. Thats like saying "Oh I dont like skinny girls" if you are with a fat one. Get my point.
The pro-touring era is obviously the way to go if your looking for modern performance in an old car. Period.

[MuscleRodz]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/04/beatdeadhorse5-1.gif Need I say more. At this point I could give a rat's a$$ what anyonr else thinks about my car. Threads like these are starting to drive me nuts like the "another fake tag" threads at camaros.net. Not to say these threads don't need to be discussed from time to time but geez.

I say give these nay sayers a ride in a ZL-1 Camaro and then ride in "El Mule" and then let them speak.

Mike

[Bill Howell]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/04/beatdeadhorse5-1.gif Need I say more. At this point I could give a rat's a$$ what anyonr else thinks about my car. Threads like these are starting to drive me nuts like the "another fake tag" threads at camaros.net. Not to say these threads don't need to be discussed from time to time but geez.

I say give these nay sayers a ride in a ZL-1 Camaro and then ride in "El Mule" and then let them speak.

Mike

Amen, as you said in another thread lately, these discussions are like PMS, they seem to be monthly.....

[Bill Howell]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/11/prestonprestonyoungeinsteinvi-1.jpg
Somebody said PT is dead ...... on the IN-TAR-NET!?!?! Well then it must be true.

Boys, it's time to break out the MR. Gasket scoops, neon pinstriping kits and the 33X21.5 MT's. Tell your barber not trim any off of the back, cause the mullet is comming back.

:lol: I heard not long ago, this in-tar-net thing was a fade too!

[parsonsj]

this in-tar-net thing was a fad too

Well, I understand Al Gore is hard at work with a replacement to the internet.

jp

[Castlesmith]

What works will always be in style, lets be honest 17and 18 inch wheels will

outperform

19s 20s 22s 23s 24s 26s.... That just a fad. Always remember what works will

always be in style. The first time I saw 17s on a truck I thought it was weird. Then I

thought 18s were crazy. I poopoo'd when i saw 20's it was weird looking. Just like those

dubb city cars, those things dont look so crazy anymore. Rims that dont look

proportionate to the car will fade out. 17 and 18s work and will always be "in"

The only bad part is, 17s and 18s look like a wall flower next to 20s, so let the fighting

continue.

I agree totally with this statement, Those things that work well will always be in style. I struggled a great deal with the pro-touring change to my 67 vert. I suppose my version is not quite a pro-tourer to the "T", as I have a solid cam, carbed, 383. I thought about the LSx conversion but it just didn't fit what I wanted the car to be. All the suspension and wheel and tire and interior,brakes, and every other thing modded are really about form and function.. Any time I drive my car anywhere it gets alot of attention, more than it did for the last 20 years I have had it in stock trim. I believe the reason for that is it's form now looks right. Lowered, with the tires and wheels balanced to the car's lines. Regarding function, it is not even the same car. There is so much more overall performance and handling I find it hard to believe i ever drove it the other way. I rode in a friends stock 68 elcamino the other day and almost felt unsafe. Form and Function, and what works well will never go out of style.

[rocketman]

it is aging a little imo.but it is the hottest style rite now.but all the styles and trends run in circles.i still some new pro street builds coming out.i am redoing my pro street 37,it will still be pro street but with 18's x 20's thanks to mt's new radials,and a big big block, high on style with a racey look and appeal.really its all in what you want to build.i am not one to worry about the latest trends.if all did that we would all have 69 camaros with ls1's and 20's.

[BonzoHansen]

I can’t believe this is still going. :pat: They said EFI was a fad too…

Don’t cut up a numbers matching car like a Z28 or SS. Sell it for too much money on e-scam and use the profits to build up a plain Jane. Everybody wins!! :lmao:


One of my parents' neighbors has an all original '72 Chevelle SS 396. He bought the car new in '72 when he graduated from high school, and parked it in the garage a year later. It has ~8K miles on it. He backs it out of the garage a few times a year, changes the oil and gas, and then it goes back to sleep.That is a crime. No matter what camp you come from, a damn crime.


I get that question too. My answer: I'm not going to let some engineer from 40 years ago tell me how my car should work.Tell them you thought you’d buck the trend and not turn a plain Jane into a phony SS.

[E30M30]

I think it's funny that anyone has a problem with pro-touring.. Who doesn't want a car that is as safe and fast as possible. Over here a lot of people hate american cars, because "they don't know how to turn or how to brake", so with a pumped big block it's like sitting on a missile. But not to offend anyone I think the PT-idea was inspired from "our" european cars, such as bmw, maserati, audi and even some mercedes, aston martins and jaguars... I would take a nice 1st. gen over the europeans, since none of the europeans share the agressive look or the mighty roar of the V8. Hope I didn't get to far from the topic..

[BonzoHansen]

...it's like sitting on a missile...You make that sound like a bad thing.

I did always like driving M5s. :)

[LTorres]

As a former restorer, I can honestly say

"Anyone can restore one, it takes a real man to cut one up" If you bring it to us, the cutting tools are coming out!

Everyone,
Guess this means we shouldn't be in business either! Yeah right!


Frank,
Whats this former restorer cr$%. I know, let me help you restore your hair color....(show up on time, next time) Totally kidding :box2:

[protour_chevelle]

The next time a pro-street guy gets in your $#!t, feel sorry for him.

It goes either way. I've seen some ill attempts at a so-called protour car...Same with pro-street. However I've seen some seriously kick ass pro-street cars. Big cubes, high horsepower, that run the fast times too. Same with Protouring.

You can't say something like that and direct it only towards one genre of cars is what I'm trying to say.

-Matt

[USAZR1]

Tell them you thought you’d buck the trend and not turn a plain Jane into a phony SS.

Touche! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Good one,Bonzo.

[curt70]

I think cars if you restore a car it should reduce the value of the car if the car was left in org condition. and cherry that would make it worth a lot. Replacement parts aren’t the same as factory in fit or Quality. Customs that are well done make a car one of a kind. If you go to Hot Aug. night’s here in Nevada almost everything is restored most not done right and think their car is priceless. Most pre 50’s cars are turned into Street rods much more exciting to look at then a bunch of stockers. That why I like P/T cars made to go all the time and show sometimes.

Curt

[trapin]

And we'll leave on that note. Thanks to all who participated.

"For Pro-Touring.com...I'm Tony Rapin...thanks for watching...we'll see ya next time. Good night everybody!"

Thread closed.