G-Body Front Suspension: RideTech vs UMI thoughts, opinions?

[sik87gn]

I'm getting ready to refresh the outdated (from 2004 build) B-body spindle/GW upper arms/Baer brake setup on my Grand National (running Hotchkis springs and sway bars) and looking for thoughts, opinions, pro's and con's. I like the idea of adjustability using the ridetech coil overs (along with Tru Turn) but I'm not sure I really have the time to bother with all the adjustability. In a perfect world it would be great and I'd use them to tune for auto-x. With 2 young kids taking most of my time, I don't have much time to work on the car and it will mainly be used for weekend cruising and an occasional auto-x until the kids get older.

UMI upper and lower a-arms keeping my current springs would be the other option. I do want to run adjustable shocks no matter coil-over or traditional coil/shock setup.

Let me know your thoughts!

-Dave

[killer69]

What about these GUYS??

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=19/mode=cat/cat19.htm

The AFX spindle is the only real FIX for the front suspension on these cars. plus we have a complete Track Time package to go with them.

Just Sayin

[SSLance]

I run the Ridetech lower arms and triple adjustable coil overs on my car along with the Ridetech Musclebar. I also like the new prototype UMI lower arms for G-body's like the Green Machine has on it now...but I'm not sure they are available for sale yet?

Both of those lower arms adjust the ball joint position which is completely necessary IMHO. The older UMI bars I think you are referring to are for coil springs correct? I'm not as familiar with their geometry corrections as I am with the newer arms.

This is where you are going to have to make a choice, set the front up for coil springs or swap to coilover shocks. Any of the arms that correct geometry will give you a head start on better handling and way improve over your B-body setup...but the shocks you choose will really define how well your setup works. I'm a huge fan of well built coilovers and would choose these (and whatever it took to get them installed properly) every time if I really wanted performance. Anything less is a compromise including (again IMHO) less priced coil over solutions.

The shocks are the brains of the system, build the setup around the BEST shocks you can afford and go from there.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Hey sik87, glad to see another G body build! Good to hear you're updating the suspension, that set up you had now has been well surpassed by much better alternatives.

I've had both types of suspensions you've mentioned on my G body. I started with the common name brand performance coil springs with adjustable front upper control arms, solid rear trailing arms with a factory style trailing arm mount sway bar and single adjustable performance shocks. The car always has been my daily driver and was fun to drive, but there were some obvious issues- I tried 3 different sets of springs to try to get the right ride height and spring rate but never quite hit it, all 3 of the springs sagged over time, the rear suspension had bind, I experienced oversteer at the track I couldn't get rid of and I felt like the shocks in this combination limited how hard I could push it. After coming to work at Speedtech I wanted to be able to tell folks from personal experience our parts were superior and really wanted to swap to coilovers so I converted to all Speedtech suspension with coilover conversions front and rear. The difference between the two set ups was near night and day, and the car handles so much better now! My teenage son also has a G body and we put all of my old suspension on his car to get him into Pro Touring with near no cost to him. We both have driven each other's cars in autoX and on the street, and we both agree my car is so much more predictable and easier to drive, has less body roll with smoother transitions, and overall is just a better handling and driving vehicle.

Don't get caught up in thinking super tuning is going to make you win track days, your driving skill with a decent suspension backing you up will mostly do that. I have found that the adjustability of a suspension has helped me have a more controllable and predictable car so that I can drive a smoother, better line and therefore do better at events. Finding that sweet spot really isn't hard with the right parts. After a few minor adjustments from out of the box base settings I have a super well balanced car, and with this as a base point all I ever do if I do adjust anything, is a 3 second click or two on the shocks to adjust to specific track layout or conditions.

Some advantages of running a suspension like mine-


Speedtech front arms have extra caster in both upper and lowers, G bodies need that.
They work great with stock G body spindles, but even better with ATS tall spindles.
The Viking coilover shocks make ride height adjustment super easy, you're in control of realistic spring rates, and they don't sag!
Double adjustable Vikings give you more tuning ability allowing adjustment of both the compression and rebound, which have both helped me dial in my car.
The Speedtech front sway bar is light weight, well matched to the rest of the suspension and allows more back space wheel and tire clearance.
Traditional type alignment setting on the non adjustable arms makes it easier for shops to set the alignment to performance specs and removes the risk of the arm failing at the adjusters.
Offset machined stainless billet shafts in the uppers have two different options for base camber setting.
Delrin bushings won't deflect, deform, or squeak like poly.
Rear Speedtech exclusive Articulink trailing arms are amazing! They allow the suspension to move through it's travel quicker and so much more smoothly, eliminating the rear suspension bind that you experience with solid rear arms. They also won't wear out like an arm with Heim joints. Delrin bushings are standard in the rear arms too.
Speedtech's rear frame mounted sway bar is adjustable for tuning over/understeer. It also allows for a more comfortable rear spring rate for street driving.
The Speedtech rear coilover conversion brackets are super beefy and allow you to adjust instant center through 3 possible positions. They're super simple to adjust and I change them up when I'm either drag racing or autoXing. That's a nice option.



Take a look by clicking Here (http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=96/mode=cat/cat96.htm) for more info on the advantages of Speedtech's awesome G body parts, feel free to contact us by phone with any questions, we're glad to help there, and good luck in your shopping for new parts for a better car!

[sik87gn]

Blake and Ben,

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at Speedtech's stuff. I don't plan on going to an ATS spindle at this time. I already have the S10/hub bearing spindles, C5 calipers/rotors, and Kore3 adapter. Also, I'm going to leave the rear suspension alone for now as I already have some aftermarket control arms and factory style sway bar. If I do anything to the rear I will update the rear sway bar with an axle mount adjustable setup.

-Dave

[sik87gn]

Lance,

Thanks for your thoughts! I was reading your build the other day....you've got a nice ride! Yes, I was talking about the UMI coil spring lower a-arms. The new prototypes aren't available yet and I haven't heard anything from UMI when they will be available. I think the new lowers will also adjust the caster as well helping center the wheel in the wheel well compared to their current lowers. I may have to take a ride to the GM Nationals at Carlisle next weekend to check their stuff out and get a ride I the Green Machine!

-Dave

[SSLance]

Thanks Dave, I definitely suggest going to Carlisle to ride in the Green Machine if you get a chance Dave, it'll open your eyes for sure when you see how well it turns. Ramey is a pretty good dude too.

Part of the package you need to consider as well is the front sway bar, as far as I'm aware, the Ridetech Musclebar is the stiffest available option for our cars. They will even custom make a center piece for it to your specs if you request (mine is 0.375" thick wall tube, 1.5" dia). this along with the corrected front geometry is what makes my car turn.

That's what makes this whole deal great, all of the parts suppliers are making great parts right now...and I'm assuming they'll only keep getting better. Ron's influence at Speedtech is a big plus there too. I haven't ran any Speedtech parts but I'm certain if you do your homework on the specs, they will be comparable as well. You just need to choose the best bits and pieces you can get, make sure they'll all play nice together and build a killer setup.

[BMR Sales]

We make G-Body Parts & sell Vikings - Great Combo!

[Josh@Ridetech]

Hey Dave,

Thanks for looking into us! The Tru-Turn addresses some of the biggest issues that are found in the G body. The amount of bumpsteer that the kit takes out of the car does wonders for the car, making it much more driveable on the street and track. The delrin bushings eliminate deflection and the stiction that you see with rubber or poly bushings which will also make you see an increase in ride quality and handling. Tall balljoints are included to create more negative camber with the stock spindles. Also, I think the HQ series shock would be a really nice addition for what you're looking to do. The HQ has the rebound adjustability (24 clicks) that will really come in handy when you're cruising on the street or getting more aggressive at the track. With it having only one knob, it's also quick and easy to adjust. It's not something that you're going to spend much time on trying to dial it in at all.

[Zoomin]

Sounds to me like you have realistic expectations of what you'll be doing with the car. I've used both companies with great results. UMI is good bang for the buck, and when used with Vi-King coil overs it's tough to beat.

On the other hand, Ride Tech is the gold standard for me when I want to turn up the heat toward max performance.

Can't go wrong with either.

[sik87gn]

BMR- correct me if I'm wrong but your arms are based on stock geometry right? I do run BMR rear lowers currently.

[Turbo6inKY]

This past winter, I swapped out my old-school adjustable UCAs for a set of the Speedtech front arms. The big seller for me was they had the caster improvements but still supported factory springs and shocks. I wasn't ready for the fancy coilovers yet. The Speedtech arms got me better front end geometry on OE style springs and shocks, with the ability to move into coilovers later. I did replace the lower ball joints with 1" taller units.

And they work. Front end grip is way better than before. I'm pulling 1.0g in turns on 245mm Dunlop ZII star specs on asphalt, and have pulled 1.1g on 275mm Rival S tires on concrete. That's not 60' skidpad g's, but it is sustained left or right turn g's, not transient readings from a quick back-and-forth.

So, while I've not heard anything bad about the UMI or Ridetech stuff, just don't leave out Speedtech. Their stuff works, too.

[sik87gn]

Andrew,

Thanks for your thoughts. In doing my research I actually just read your blog last week! Still haven't made a decision, probably be another month or so before I pull the trigger. I'm going to have to go back and revisit that positive ventilation post in your blog at some point!

-Dave

[Turbo6inKY]

Wow, people read that thing?

I may have to write more, now. I had an odyssey getting to, and then dropping out of the Optima USCA Event at NCM that'd make some good copy.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

This past winter, I swapped out my old-school adjustable UCAs for a set of the Speedtech front arms. The big seller for me was they had the caster improvements but still supported factory springs and shocks. I wasn't ready for the fancy coilovers yet. The Speedtech arms got me better front end geometry on OE style springs and shocks, with the ability to move into coilovers later. I did replace the lower ball joints with 1" taller units.

And they work. Front end grip is way better than before. I'm pulling 1.0g in turns on 245mm Dunlop ZII star specs on asphalt, and have pulled 1.1g on 275mm Rival S tires on concrete. That's not 60' skidpad g's, but it is sustained left or right turn g's, not transient readings from a quick back-and-forth.

So, while I've not heard anything bad about the UMI or Ridetech stuff, just don't leave out Speedtech. Their stuff works, too.

Glad to hear you're having fun and sticking to the road with the new parts! Send us pics for our gallery!

[Turbo6inKY]

Glad to hear you're having fun and sticking to the road with the new parts! Send us pics for our gallery!

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