Suspension Ideas! CHEVY VEGA CORNER CARVER

[EFIVega]

OK. so i have a 72 vega i have been working on. it has a full frame under it with a custom 3 link rear. and an s10 front clip that i am not very happy with. I am looking to change it because its not the best looking front suspension and i would like something with rack and pinion for more clearance up at the front.

got to looking at the 03+ crown vic front ifs crossmember looks like a really nice easy to swap unit. but i know it is really wide for such a small car. now before we talk about narrowing the unit. i have in my garage a pair of nice aluminum 17" mazda factory wheels that are only 6.5" wide but heres the best part. there is almost 6" of backspacing 5 7/8" to be exact. from what i have read. the more positive offset is better for scrub radius. heres my thinking.

the s10 clip wms to wms is approx 54" i had 7" wide wheels with 3 1/2" backspace that should give me a total width of 61" wide in the front for outside tire to outside tire.

not sure exactly how wide the crown vic ifs is from wms to wms is but with lots of backspacing it may just work? what do ya think.

if the crown vic ifs is about 62" with the wheels i have that should give me a total with of about 64" or so. i have a little room right now between tire and fender not much but even if i have to flare i think it should look good. Any one ever see a widebody or flared vega? ive never but maybe someone thats good with photoshop can help hint hint.

hope to hear some opinions

[mytmouz]

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/102908-T-C-s-Random-Transportation-Thread/page474

Having owned a few Vega's, Monza's, S10's. I am pretty sure the crown vic is going to be too wide. I recently did a crown vic swap into a 1969 full size ford truck and it is wider than the H body...

[HellPhish89]

Pushrod/cantilever!

[parsonsj]

Budget issues may preclude this.. but I'd have a long look here:

http://www.detroitspeed.com/X-Gen-Products/032041-X-gen-535.html

[EFIVega]

Yes budget is an issue. But what do you guys think I would like to use something Oem if possible? I see c5 corvette ifs on eBay that are priced well. Also wide but with all the fwd vehicles and high offset wheels something wide may just work.

I would go mustang 2 but it seems like it fairly old technology and although aftermarket parts are available I don't think they are very good for a protouring car. That being said if someone has plans for a crossmember I could cnc plasma cut it and weld it up and atleast I know it will be quality work and materials. I am a welder by trade and the whole thing would be 100% tig welded. Then I would just order all the components to assemble it.

That would be probably the best route,

[HellPhish89]

If you have the skills then you can basically do whatever you like with it. The crazy pushrod setup sounds not so crazy now..

[Protour_Pinto]

I am fitting a Fox/SN95 Mustang front suspension under my Toyota Pickup.

I took the cross member of the Fox Body because it is a little narrower than the SN95 and I the rack is a lot cheaper and there are more choices for a manual unit.

The lower control arms and Spindles are from a 95. They are a little wider than the Fox and has better balljoints. The 95 spindles allow me to run 5 lug wheels and 13" Cobra brakes.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I'd look towards a C4 Vette clip since at least that came off a performance oriented platform, and it is a bolt in clip essentially. I have one I'm thinking of trying in a 57 Chevy pickup.

And cool on the Vega! I have a 73 Kammback I want to make a full chassis, radical track car. It was going to be a tube chassis drag car, but my plans changed over the years.

[EFIVega]

Yes I am thinking either corvette or mustang II. The sn95 suspension sounds interesting.

I just got back from looking at an 87 supra for 400 bucks and was thinking I could use the front ifs and irs because they are bolt on units, and I know supra parts will be around for long time. But the problem is it measured out to be 69" wide the vega is only about 61-62 at most. I don't mind flaring it a little maybe 2" but 3 1/2 to 4" flare on each side might look stupid.

I am not sure exactly how wide the corvette setup is because I can't find dimensions online

I was thinking I could narrow the supra one but then what about the rack and pinion.

Also i would like to stay with a Ford 4.5 pattern as wheels are more plentiful in the junkyards and I do plan to do irs one day as well maybe Ford 8.8.

[EFIVega]

The vega Kammback would make a wicked little track car! I'm in the same boat as you I guess plans just keep changing for my project.

[Protour_Pinto]

The track width for the Fox is 57.9 and the SN95 is 60"

There are a lot of tubular cross members for both cars too if weight is an issue

[EFIVega]

There's actually an sn95 mustang at a yard near me. I do like the idea for sure. Not sure if I am looking at the right things but it seems there are tubular k members available for anywhere between 250-500. Damn reasonably priced if all I would have to do is hand the suspension and steering off of it. I would definately go straight to the big cobra brakes off the bat. And what rack gets use the fox body?

[Protour_Pinto]

The fox already has a Rack and Pinion. There are options for those too. Everything from stock to quick ratio.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Default.aspx is a good place to start looking, plus they have a tech section to demystify a bunch of little things.

[EFIVega]

Cool. I am seriously gonna start looking into this. As I understand it so far. I can get a tubular k member for either fox or sn95 and use the stock sn95 control arms , spindles and hubs. Then order cobra rotors and calipers. It seems almost to easy

[Zspoiler]

Look and see what the IMSA,SCCA Monza and Vega race cars of that era had for that era.

[Protour_Pinto]

Yep, Its pretty easy, If you go with the fox cross member it will be a little narrower. You will want the spindles from a 94/95, after that the point where the rack connects is too high but if you go with the SN then its all good for you.

Cobra calipers and brackets can be had on ebay, Replacement stock rotors are inexpensive new.

Where in Canada are you?

[EFIVega]

Northern Ontario. It takes a while to order parts from the states and with the duty and exchange rate everything cost almost double. That's why I am looking to do this on such a budget because normally I can budget say 2 thousand used for a suspension but really I can only budget 1000usd because of the shipping, duty(import fees) taxes and exchange rate in already close to that 2000 mark.

Anyway, I was reading about the problems with the rack. So maybe I'm better to go with sn95 crossmember off the bat. As long as I can get it all to fit under the fenders of the vega which are 62 inches lip to lip.

Can't seem to find specs from hub to hub width of the sn95 or fox though

Do you know if there is a way to do away with McPherson strut and do SLA trying to avoid building strut towers if I can the vega is a small car

[EFIVega]

That being said if there is no easy way to convert the McPherson strut I'm sure I can use it one way or another and build the strut towers

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Protour_Pinto]

I have seen options where they put UCA with a coil over but I would think at that point a Mustang 2 set up would be more economical.

Im quite familiar with the perils of shipping and exchange rates, Im from Sudbury. I escaped to L.A. for the rust free cars and weather!

[Protour_Pinto]

If you cant find anything on the width I can throw my front end together and give you a rough guess on what it is from hub to hub

[EFIVega]

That would be much appreciated. It's been a dream of mine for a long time to move to LA but you probably know better than I that applying for residency and citizenship in the USA is very difficult.

Would you have to use fox body or sn95 control arms? If not going tubular.

Because of the difference in spindle height what do you think of lowering the rack to compensate? It's only 1"

[Protour_Pinto]

Im using the fox cross member with the SN LCA with 94 spindles. For me I wouldn't want to drop the rack below the bottom of cross member, I would hate to hang it up on something at speed.

My front end is going to be so light so I went with all the stock stuff for the weight.

[EFIVega]

Cool. There's so many options to choose from and it seems there are many ways to go about building the suspension. If you don't mind can you get a measurement from the wheel mounting surfaces

[EFIVega]

called maximum motorsports and the rep was of great help trying to figure out what could fit under my car. he actually even went out to measure the wheel mounting surface of their foxbody mustang units with the shorter control arms and it was almost 60 inches. so that plans thrown out. Then i got to thinking and moving the lower control arm mounting points inward the needed amount and using a shorter manual rack and pinion. I know there are plenty of mustang II racks out there that may be the right length but would the mustang 2 tie rods fit sn95 spindles?


also got to thinking of using tubular lower control arms,spindles, hubs for an sn95, cobra brakes and using one of the adapters that griggs and factory five racing sell to use an upper control arm. and build my own crossmember to the proper width for the vega around 56" wms to wms.and using the mustang II rack if it will work with the spindles. I could always go to an aftermarket splined sway bar thats the right width and build my own front suspension in a sense. i would modify the lower tubular control arms for use with a standard coilover.

what i would need help with is upper control arm length and pivot points as i am sure there are many more knowledgable suspension guys on this site than myself

this is the adapter so i could fabricate this with the right taper for an s10 balljoint that way i can use these circle track control arms available in many different lengths

[url]http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server1500/6661c/products/147/images/387/ifsbracket__19059.1337868162.220.220.jpg?
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/91720004-1_L.jpg


it looks like the fox body tie rod ends are same thread as mustang II rack

[Protour_Pinto]

Being a welder is perfect for this job! I have shortened the inner tierods plenty of times but I know if you can find the right size to begin with its better geometricly.

Those guys at Maximum are great! They are right up the road from me.

[EFIVega]

The assembly and welding is the easy part. its figuring out the proper geometry and plotting out the pivot pounds and proper angles of the control arms.

Im thinking 56-57 inches wms width, sn95 spindles and hubs, cobra brakes, sn95 tubular lower control arms (longer than foxbody better for geometry, speedway gm metric upper control arms with spindles adapters, mustang 2 steering rack with sn95 tie rod ends. coilovers would have to be on the lower control arms


probably a 2x3 frame for simplicity or modify a tubular k memeber moving the suspension mounts closer to the center to get to the desired track width if possible.

anyone feel generous enough to point me in the right direction to figure out the geometery? i know i should get a suspension program but thats not really in the cards for me at the moment

thanks

[SPLATT71MC]

I know they are a bit rare but what about Pontiac Solstice/ Saturn Sky parts? I love the idea of a corner carving Vega, good suspension/chassis,boosted Ecotec 4 and 6 speed manual.

[avewhtboy]

I posted in your other thread but just saw this more comprehensive one.

Are you member of H-body org? Lots of ideas over there. Of course Mr. Shwartz proved with the "Flying Turd" with a good driver
and some horsepower the stock platform with some tweeks is not too bad. Maybe you can get him to add more here to what they
did to that car. I know they had S10 platform but what else they did I am not sure.

I have a 1977 Astre pro touring project I am doing full frame C5 front Suspension and 4th Gen F body rear with Ride tech coil overs
at each corner. These parts can be had relatively inexpensively and provide a good starting point for not too expensive setup.

Like I said in your other thread, If I had it to do over I would look at a Strut setup. I think it would help the front end geometry situation
the most. I believe it would make Rack spindle bump steer ackerman etc problems go away.


http:// (http://<a href=&quot;http://s304.photobucket.com/user/avewhtboy/media/Pontiac%20Astre/IMG_1785_zpscf476f61.jpg.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_1785_zpscf476f61-1.jpg</a>)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_1785_zpscf476f61-1.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/user/avewhtboy/media/Pontiac%20Astre/IMG_1785_zpscf476f61.jpg.html)

[vintageracer]

Look and see what the IMSA,SCCA Monza and Vega race cars of that era had for that era.

A Tube Chassis!

[bbcowboy]

I am not sure if you have seen my thread on my Vega....here is a rendering of my car and a recent picture

[iadr]

Racks can be narrowed. I haven't done it, but I've watched cars go together where it was done, and ridden in them. Not magic :)

I would strongly recommend you check out LocostUSA's forums. That's for building Lotus 7 replicas. Their situations are directly comparable to yours, and there is some smart members, smart use of software (V-susp, free), and if you have patience there is a huge database of posts from the past.

And for gawd's sake don't use a darned strut. You know better.

[MonzaRacer]

Ok first of all getting other parts,,,,WHY? DANG. The cars are standard SLA setup. I had talked to Lee before he went out about building a box. Even got the approval to try a Grand Cherokee box before getting it custom built.
The biggest issue with the s10/ gbody spindle swap is longer steering arm and it forces tie rods forward of centerlink perpendicular centerline. So I figured out simply moving idler arm and steering box forward fixes 2 issues one is oil pan conflict and other is from steering arm length. When I found centerlink issues I simply had S10 Gbody unit cut down. We slipped heavy wall tubing over machined area on each piece. Had thought about simply cutting threads and using truck tie rod adjuster but wasn't sure if it would handle stress. So we simply pressed it into heavy metal sleeve after it was cut to length. Then we Tig welded it.
After cutting S10 tie rods to length it's all donor car parts except new centerlink.
I helped guy with this. Turns out he still had old style threaded idler arm and we just swapped arm.
He used newer ZQ8 spindles and later on bought adapters and C5/6 brakes.
He has found some upgrade hubs like ZR1 upgrade for C5/6 spindles. Not sure where but so far he has kept old stockers with no ill effects.
He ordered control arms from Overkill but they are delayed. So we boxed his old ones, he had issues finding ball joints so we made drop in big to cut out old but boss and made some from steel that fit S10 hi and dropped it in and Tig welded them with reinforcement. Very solid.
To work on fitment of wheels we made offset plates for lower control arm adjusters. We used off set washers on upper control arm bolt slots and made adjustments on top. It worked well we could get to about 0 degree camber. We settled on -0.75 to start, monkeyed with lower plates to set caster higher and used tall g body ball joints to gain camber gain. Took while to find sweet spot but it all works.
He had so.e 17" Vette wheels modified, I am looking to do the same.
You also need to clean up all the spot welds in engine bay. I hope to tig all of the joints but may just MIG them.
I am drawing up plans for engine bay X brace for my 77 Monza as it will have twin turbo sbc!
I'm thinking Josh had wheels narrowed 1" down to 7.5 but may have just been .5 or as .much as 1.5". I'll ha e to ask. Been contemplating steel wheels as I can narrow them my self.

[Zanie]

Lee,
Who is Guy?
Where is the build you are talking about?

[MonzaRacer]

Well remember the /s10 is basically the same as G body so look there. Later ZQ spindles let you up grade the brakes. As for a rack I was looking at one of the Nissan racks, I forget the model but it was manual and fast ratio but I have seen S10/Gbody with the crossmember cut out and a bolt in one made. As long as you use good reference to setting up the rack keeping the S10/Gbody suspension with aftermarket parts should do fine.