View Full Version : Carbon Fiber
gabbett1
05-28-2016, 05:17 AM
I've noticed there are a lot of Carbon Fiber parts out there for 69 Camaro's and got me thinking. I wonder how many people would be interested in/buy a Carbon Fiber body. If it were available, is it something that people would consider?
raustinss
05-28-2016, 07:04 AM
Sure price would be thru the roof ....go check out what ring brothers want for a "complete" carbon fiber Mustang.... 40,000$
gabbett1
05-28-2016, 09:52 AM
I don't know... maybe. I bet it could be done for a better price than what Ring Brothers is asking. From my experience all of their stuff is uber expensive.
raustinss
05-28-2016, 10:31 AM
lol yes its pricey but is top quality ....yes you can get cheaper but it might be crap. perfect example i have a custom carbon guy doing fenders for my chevelle. now im in canada and hes in the states but when it is all said and done each fender will end up being around 16-1800 EACH ...X2 plus they still need to be fit,primed,painted,polished . so to ask 40 ish when molds need to be made and such really isnt that bad
gabbett1
05-28-2016, 11:39 AM
lol yes its pricey but is top quality ....yes you can get cheaper but it might be crap. perfect example i have a custom carbon guy doing fenders for my chevelle. now im in canada and hes in the states but when it is all said and done each fender will end up being around 16-1800 EACH ...X2 plus they still need to be fit,primed,painted,polished . so to ask 40 ish when molds need to be made and such really isnt that bad
Eh... I've dealt with a bit of carbon fiber myself on the airplane side. Parts HAVE to be high quality for aircraft. I've also seen the Ring Brothers carbon fiber body up close at SEMA. It is just a shell. No inner structure or anything. It's way over priced IMO. Their construction process is a resin infusion (I'm assuming because I noticed several spots of bridging where the fabric didn't reach the corner and it's just filled with resin). I know that you can do prepreg for similar cost if you know what you are doing and have a much higher quality part.
gabbett1
05-28-2016, 12:35 PM
Sorry, I should clarify. I'm not trying to say that the Ring Brothers don't have a quality product. Just that there isn't as much of the unibody that I would expect to see for the cost.
raustinss
05-28-2016, 09:43 PM
The parts they sell are meant to go over the "deskined"she'll of a Mustang from what I recall.... Referring to a Jay Leno interview about the car and there was a comment or two about a steel structure and floors ...just a carbon skin. Regardless I don't think you could mold and produce a product in North America at a monetary rate that would appeal to everyone or else you would have already seen it
gabbett1
05-29-2016, 04:38 AM
The parts they sell are meant to go over the "deskined"she'll of a Mustang from what I recall.... Referring to a Jay Leno interview about the car and there was a comment or two about a steel structure and floors ...just a carbon skin. Regardless I don't think you could mold and produce a product in North America at a monetary rate that would appeal to everyone or else you would have already seen it
For everyone, no. But I would think that people would be interested if you could do it for a reasonable cost.
raustinss
05-29-2016, 10:14 AM
Dog chasing it's own tail..... Yes you are right at a reasonable price ....try to find it .....you will...and it will be crap from China and not fit ! OR IT WOUKD HAVE HAPPENED ALREADY . Trust me you aren't the first person to think this
gabbett1
05-29-2016, 10:38 AM
Doesn't hurt to look into it. Maybe the other people couldn't find someone willing to not price gouge them on the product. Maybe they couldn't find someone that could make the product as a quality part. Who knows...
TheJDMan
05-29-2016, 12:07 PM
Doesn't hurt to look into it. Maybe the other people couldn't find someone willing to not price gouge them on the product. Maybe they couldn't find someone that could make the product as a quality part. Who knows...
You're just being argumentative now son. Go find some one to build you a body and then come back and tell us all about it.
gabbett1
05-29-2016, 02:05 PM
You're just being argumentative now son. Go find some one to build you a body and then come back and tell us all about it.
That was not my intent. I was trying to mention possible scenarios as to why it's not available already. Can someone show me examples of people that have tried and failed?
raustinss
05-29-2016, 02:53 PM
I am? I was just posing possible scenarios. How is that being argumentative? I thought the guy telling me that it can't be done or else it already would have been done is more argumentative but I didn't take offense to what he had to say.
Think maybe you might have been taking my posts out of context? Because I wasn't upset or arguing with anyone here. The tone of your post really surprises me.
Im not offended nor am i trying to be argumentative i felt like i had to say the same thing more than twice .
So i will do my best to make this my last post here .... yes i think its a spectacular idea . Here's my endorsement giver' and ,yes please report back here when you do find someone who can do it for a dirt cheap price
Reasons why i think it would have been done before ......Ring brothers...Munnessy speed...Anvil...Ultra-carbon...Seibon....Albert ? something.
These are all people i can think of that produce carbon goodies for vehicles and yet only one has come close (and i know there are many others ) . The before mentioned Ring Brothers are the only ones ,who also were the ones i said wanted 40,000 for their kit (which when you consider its molded and produced down there in America and what your getting isnt that bad of a price) . If someone wanted to do it they would have, you are talking about the most popular pro-touring platform after all and not some weird odd ball like a 75 Chevelle. Money and lots of it ,pick a company which can,will and,does build their own high dollar cars. Detroit speed, Ridetech, rad rides by Troy, Foose, Steilow, Ironworks...Fesler cmon follow me here again NOBODY has . Anyone of these people or companies could have . I spent almost 2 years to find out FOR SURE that there was nobody making carbon fenders for 1970 Chevelle. i have some being made they will be the only set in the world, the molds will belong to the builder and said they may do a production run which in time would get more out in the public eye as well as lowering the price . I even put the price im paying out there and risking looking like a fool for paying that much,to show you how much custom stuff can cost . When i add that with carbon inner fenders, fender extensions, bumpers and filler panels, hood , trunk lid . I will be well north of 10,000 and guess what i still dont have doors ,quarters nor roof . factor molding and producing i could easily see 20-25. Now back to ring brothers , add the costs of its a custom wide body,profit margins , marketing etc . I really dont see how you think it could retain top quality and be cheaper . please feel free to chime back with what you feel an ideal price would be id be interested in seeing it .
To put it in the simplest write these tree things in a triangular fashion then draw arrows between them in a circular fashion this will be your answer
supply
demand
cost
Mr.VENGEANCE
05-29-2016, 08:28 PM
I cant imagine the price for a whole body being "not so expensive" as I have produced a kit of Carbon Fiber parts for the first gen and ALL of my parts are made here in USA.. down the street matter of fact.. and my price JUST to have them made before they are offered on the market is bananas.. I wish I could sell my parts cheaper.. but the fact that the parts I make are very good quality leaves me at a high mark..
And I cant see something like a Ring Bros not being better than who I use so Im sure that the price point is worth it..
And I bet there are guys who say "I can do it cheaper than the RBs".. but I know they are taking a BIG hit to do so.. maybe just to prove they could.. but comfortably able to make you a nice CF part..
It just aint cheap..
raustinss
05-29-2016, 10:13 PM
I cant imagine the price for a whole body being "not so expensive" as I have produced a kit of Carbon Fiber parts for the first gen and ALL of my parts are made here in USA.. down the street matter of fact.. and my price JUST to have them made before they are offered on the market is bananas.. I wish I could sell my parts cheaper.. but the fact that the parts I make are very good quality leaves me at a high mark..
And I cant see something like a Ring Bros not being better than who I use so Im sure that the price point is worth it..
And I bet there are guys who say "I can do it cheaper than the RBs".. but I know they are taking a BIG hit to do so.. maybe just to prove they could.. but comfortably able to make you a nice CF part..
It just aint cheap..
Thank you ...almost needed some beer n drugs after banging my head against the wall that much
Cheers fellas
HellPhish89
05-30-2016, 12:00 AM
Carbon fiber manufacturing is expensive. Car companies have done crazy things like resorting to weaving the carbon thread into the parts they want. Chevy, Ford, Mercedes, and others have had certain alliances at points in time to try to figure out a less expensive way to manufacture carbon/composite parts.
Of course there is also the mold making.. which is also expensive.
IE:
https://youtu.be/UgKvDw1E60E
Lay ups can also be quite complicated:
https://youtu.be/YWbGx_BJVvM
From there.. most higher end manufacturers are going to be using pre-preg carbon and will 'cook' the parts in an autoclave.
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 04:56 AM
Im not offended nor am i trying to be argumentative i felt like i had to say the same thing more than twice .
So i will do my best to make this my last post here .... yes i think its a spectacular idea . Here's my endorsement giver' and ,yes please report back here when you do find someone who can do it for a dirt cheap price
Reasons why i think it would have been done before ......Ring brothers...Munnessy speed...Anvil...Ultra-carbon...Seibon....Albert ? something.
These are all people i can think of that produce carbon goodies for vehicles and yet only one has come close (and i know there are many others ) . The before mentioned Ring Brothers are the only ones ,who also were the ones i said wanted 40,000 for their kit (which when you consider its molded and produced down there in America and what your getting isnt that bad of a price) . If someone wanted to do it they would have, you are talking about the most popular pro-touring platform after all and not some weird odd ball like a 75 Chevelle. Money and lots of it ,pick a company which can,will and,does build their own high dollar cars. Detroit speed, Ridetech, rad rides by Troy, Foose, Steilow, Ironworks...Fesler cmon follow me here again NOBODY has . Anyone of these people or companies could have . I spent almost 2 years to find out FOR SURE that there was nobody making carbon fenders for 1970 Chevelle. i have some being made they will be the only set in the world, the molds will belong to the builder and said they may do a production run which in time would get more out in the public eye as well as lowering the price . I even put the price im paying out there and risking looking like a fool for paying that much,to show you how much custom stuff can cost . When i add that with carbon inner fenders, fender extensions, bumpers and filler panels, hood , trunk lid . I will be well north of 10,000 and guess what i still dont have doors ,quarters nor roof . factor molding and producing i could easily see 20-25. Now back to ring brothers , add the costs of its a custom wide body,profit margins , marketing etc . I really dont see how you think it could retain top quality and be cheaper . please feel free to chime back with what you feel an ideal price would be id be interested in seeing it .
To put it in the simplest write these tree things in a triangular fashion then draw arrows between them in a circular fashion this will be your answer
supply
demand
cost
First off, I'm glad you aren't/weren't offended :). I wasn't either with our dialogue. In regards to you having to repeat yourself to me, I think it comes down to the fact that you don't know my experience with carbon fiber. I've built a carbon fiber airplane and have made other carbon fiber parts myself.
Anvil, Ring Brothers and all those others have something in common. None of them make the parts themselves. They are all done by a 3rd party. I've shopped around places that make carbon fiber parts and have seen a huge range in pricing for the same item. What I don't know is if these companies have found the cheapest yet still quality maker of said parts. Like I said before, I have experience with a group that makes carbon parts for airplanes and I'm working with them on pricing of parts as well as a potential Camaro body. So far they've been, IMO, extremely reasonable in their costs and all of the parts we are looking to make will be using prepreg.
In regards to your Chevelle parts. Those seem really expensive. I'm assuming so because of the molds that have to be made, but if they get to keep the molds and make/sell more parts from them, I hope they give you some sort of royalty deal.
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 05:26 AM
I have the entire front clip and trunk lid from Anvil in carbon for my Camaro and it didn't cost me $10k. Their hood is $3k and I know I can have it made (cost) in prepreg for less than half of that. The Ring Brothers are charging $30k for a shell of a body. There's no floor or inner structure at all.
Most of these companies COULD do a full body for a Camaro (from an outside source), but none of them do it because they don't have incentive to. Since they can't make them in house, modifications would be an issue for them as well. What they currently do works and makes them money, and lots of it. Why change? The Ring Brothers are only offering the Carbon Mustang because they had a customer that wanted that and paid for it much like you are with your Chevelle fenders.
raustinss
05-30-2016, 06:40 AM
wow ...so you wait until now to tell the class that you can,will and do make carbon parts . i know its a lil rude then but ...put up or shut up . what i mean is then do it your self . Helen Keller could tell that the camaro is the right car to do .
as for my carbon parts ....anvil parts
hood 2499$
trunk 1750 $
vent screen 135$
ultra-carbon
inner fenders $1200
sub total 5584$
custom fenders
cost of new fenders to use for molds 2@310$ = 620
cost of new fender extensions 2@ 42 = 84
cost of bumper filler panel 70$
total is now 6358
mold those parts ...produce necessary pieces ...ship them TO CANADA ...PAID FOR IN US DOLLARS...fit to the car ...prime..paint and you think it would be too much to pay 10,000 ? you sir are out to lunch
the parts already produced by anvil and ultra carbon are closing in on 6000 with out taxes or shipping or duty let alone an exchange rate of 1.31. so 1 us dollar is 1.31 Canadian . simple math means 5584 x1.31 =7315.04 canadian ... going back to the custom parts JUST TO PURCHASE THEM IN SHEETMETAL 6358$ x 1.31 = 8328.98$
now going to just my fenders i told you to purchase make and ship how much id be paying .... again my parts closing in on 10,000 is not going to unheard of nor far off what im guessing my math already has it at almost 12,000 canadian which is a touch of 9000 us...
no i wont be getting dividends off the molds being made this is an agreement between himself and myself and the company he owns , he is giving me a heavy discount on making the mold in the process in lew of paying me money . plus the same deal applies for all future parts between himself and myself .
I am offically done with this conversation as it is gone from informative conversation to running in circles, i wish you the best in producing your own carbon car being as you say you can , when your thinking about making your own car ask yourself .... how much will reinforcing plates cost , trapped nuts for bolts parts on , post mold machining, legal registration ..I.E carbon splinters when it breaks hence another reason for just skinning a car .
and finally AGAIN POST A PRICE LIKE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN OR SHOULD PAY TO DO THIS
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 06:50 AM
wow ...so you wait until now to tell the class that you can,will and do make carbon parts . i know its a lil rude then but ...put up or shut up . what i mean is then do it your self . Helen Keller could tell that the camaro is the right car to do .
as for my carbon parts ....anvil parts
hood 2499$
trunk 1750 $
vent screen 135$
ultra-carbon
inner fenders $1200
sub total 5584$
custom fenders
cost of new fenders to use for molds 2@310$ = 620
cost of new fender extensions 2@ 42 = 84
cost of bumper filler panel 70$
total is now 6358
mold those parts ...produce necessary pieces ...ship them TO CANADA ...PAID FOR IN US DOLLARS...fit to the car ...prime..paint and you think it would be too much to pay 10,000 ? you sir are out to lunch
the parts already produced by anvil and ultra carbon are closing in on 6000 with out taxes or shipping or duty let alone an exchange rate of 1.31. so 1 us dollar is 1.31 Canadian . simple math means 5584 x1.31 =7315.04 canadian ... going back to the custom parts JUST TO PURCHASE THEM IN SHEETMETAL 6358$ x 1.31 = 8328.98$
now going to just my fenders i told you to purchase make and ship how much id be paying .... again my parts closing in on 10,000 is not going to unheard of nor far off what im guessing my math already has it at almost 12,000 canadian which is a touch of 9000 us...
no i wont be getting dividends off the molds being made this is an agreement between himself and myself and the company he owns , he is giving me a heavy discount on making the mold in the process in lew of paying me money . plus the same deal applies for all future parts between himself and myself .
I am offically done with this conversation as it is gone from informative conversation to running in circles, i wish you the best in producing your own carbon car being as you say you can , when your thinking about making your own car ask yourself .... how much will reinforcing plates cost , trapped nuts for bolts parts on , post mold machining, legal registration ..I.E carbon splinters when it breaks hence another reason for just skinning a car .
and finally AGAIN POST A PRICE LIKE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN OR SHOULD PAY TO DO THIS
No I told you very early on that I had experience with carbon fiber. My intent here wasn't to necessarily say I was going to do it yet anyway. I just wanted to have a conversation about it.
In regards to your parts. I wasn't trying to offend you. Also, I didn't realize you were saying $10k for everything, meaning shipping, body work, primer, paint etc. I thought you were referring to just the parts. I think you need to take a breath because you are getting very worked up over nothing here. I am just trying to have a conversation, but you seem to think you have all the answers already. If you do, then please by all means show me the evidence (of someone trying a full body). I would love to be proven wrong. Otherwise, I refuse to just take someone's word for it. Call it my stubbornness, which I know is a fault of mine, lol.
As far as numbers, we are still working on that. I know what I can make a hood for, but that's not the topic of our conversation. Plus, I don't want to get into issues with rules of the website. I was simply here to gauge interest and it quickly escalated into, you can't do it so don't try because nobody else has done it yet...
raustinss
05-30-2016, 06:58 AM
wow ...so you wait until now to tell the class that you can,will and do make carbon parts . i know its a lil rude then but ...put up or shut up . what i mean is then do it your self . Helen Keller could tell that the camaro is the right car to do .
as for my carbon parts ....anvil parts
hood 2499$
trunk 1750 $
vent screen 135$
ultra-carbon
inner fenders $1200
sub total 5584$
custom fenders
cost of new fenders to use for molds 2@310$ = 620
cost of new fender extensions 2@ 42 = 84
cost of bumper filler panel 70$
total is now 6358
mold those parts ...produce necessary pieces ...ship them TO CANADA ...PAID FOR IN US DOLLARS...fit to the car ...prime..paint and you think it would be too much to pay 10,000 ? you sir are out to lunch
the parts already produced by anvil and ultra carbon are closing in on 6000 with out taxes or shipping or duty let alone an exchange rate of 1.31. so 1 us dollar is 1.31 Canadian . simple math means 5584 x1.31 =7315.04 canadian ... going back to the custom parts JUST TO PURCHASE THEM IN SHEETMETAL 6358$ x 1.31 = 8328.98$
now going to just my fenders i told you to purchase make and ship how much id be paying .... again my parts closing in on 10,000 is not going to unheard of nor far off what im guessing my math already has it at almost 12,000 canadian which is a touch of 9000 us...
no i wont be getting dividends off the molds being made this is an agreement between himself and myself and the company he owns , he is giving me a heavy discount on making the mold in the process in lew of paying me money . plus the same deal applies for all future parts between himself and myself .
I am offically done with this conversation as it is gone from informative conversation to running in circles, i wish you the best in producing your own carbon car being as you say you can , when your thinking about making your own car ask yourself .... how much will reinforcing plates cost , trapped nuts for bolts parts on , post mold machining, legal registration ..I.E carbon splinters when it breaks hence another reason for just skinning a car .
and finally AGAIN POST A PRICE LIKE NUMBERS AS TO WHAT YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU CAN OR SHOULD PAY TO DO THIS
oh and how you think a "FULL ANVIL FRONT CLIP" is less than 10 is beyond me unless theyre used parts or not full carbon ...follow along kids
hood 3000
fenders 3200
inner fenders with extensions 2950
cowl panel 500
header panel 500
spoiler 400
valance 1300
braces 175
vent screen 175
rad close out panel 500
for a total of .........12,700
and the hood fenders and, inner fenders all have a extra 200 for shipping not including any other small parts shipping charges as they would toss some together comes out for a total of 13,300 and you still havent paid sales taxes ,fit them to your car ,primed them or painted them
raustinss
05-30-2016, 07:10 AM
you magically keep roping me in...... your exact wording was "eh... ive dealt with a bit of carbon fiber ..." no where in there does it say ive made parts and can make parts . also i never said 10,000 including paint and such ...thats a plus paint and such
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 07:19 AM
you magically keep roping me in...... your exact wording was "eh... ive dealt with a bit of carbon fiber ..." no where in there does it say ive made parts and can make parts . also i never said 10,000 including paint and such ...thats a plus paint and such
Yes, that was my fault and I apologize. I should have read what you were saying the costs were more carefully.
Like I was saying, I wasn't trying to get into the idea that I was going to look into doing it. I just wanted to get an idea of how many people here would even have interest. There are issues that need to be overcome, as you have stated a few in your last post. I just wonder where the price break is at where you would get lots of interest vs none...
raustinss
05-30-2016, 08:22 AM
ok then you should have started with .....looking at molding a carbon car prices are going to be...... if there are x many ordered then the price is ..... these will be made with ..... these will be produced by.... and myself
you also still havent posted what your price is and how cheap it is nor have you said how you got a complete front anvil clip for less then 10
nor have you said what exactly you made in the airplane industry nor posted any pictures which quite possibly add to someone being interested in a unicorn carbon car
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 08:30 AM
ok then you should have started with .....looking at molding a carbon car prices are going to be...... if there are x many ordered then the price is ..... these will be made with ..... these will be produced by.... and myself
Is that allowed? I've been on other web sites that would lock the thread if I would have done that and wasn't a paying vendor.
raustinss
05-30-2016, 10:19 AM
still waiting for answers in post #24
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 11:12 AM
still waiting for answers in post #24
Can't answer all of those yet. I'll post something here when I have more information. Wouldn't I have to become a vendor in order to post something like you suggested?
TheJDMan
05-30-2016, 12:07 PM
You would be wise to become a vendor when the time comes because we are very supportive of our vendors and as a group are not afraid to spend money on quality parts. If you can make and sell CF parts at fiberglass prices you would likely do a good amount of business.
IMO, all this banter could have been avoided if you had begun your post by saying you are making CF parts and trying to gauge interest in CF parts and bodies. Now that we understand the situation I for one am interested in what you got. Please provide more details.
raustinss
05-30-2016, 12:44 PM
i would agree because if you can match quality at discount prices .....id be in for some other chevelle parts
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 03:37 PM
You would be wise to become a vendor when the time comes because we are very supportive of our vendors and as a group are not afraid to spend money on quality parts. If you can make and sell CF parts at fiberglass prices you would likely do a good amount of business.
IMO, all this banter could have been avoided if you had begun your post by saying you are making CF parts and trying to gauge interest in CF parts and bodies. Now that we understand the situation I for one am interested in what you got. Please provide more details.
Sorry for the approach. Like I said, there are other sites that I did try to take that approach and the thread was quickly shut down because I wasn't a paying vendor, even though I didn't have a product to offer yet.
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 03:38 PM
i would agree because if you can match quality at discount prices .....id be in for some other chevelle parts
As far as that goes, if you can give me an idea of what parts you would be looking for I could get some pricing on them.
raustinss
05-30-2016, 03:48 PM
Doors ....quarters ...roof
gabbett1
05-30-2016, 03:56 PM
Doors ....quarters ...roof
Skins? Are you planning to attach them to the inner structure?
TheJDMan
05-30-2016, 04:28 PM
I would assume CF roof and door panels could be bonded to the inner structure using the same type of adhesive that the OEMs use. I think you will find that the members here are pretty serious about performance and shaving weight tends to become an obsession. Now that I think about it a CF roof panel might be one method of lowering the CG of a car. I also think there would be a fair amount of interest in a 67/68 Camaro front fenders especially if you were to add a very subtle 1" or 1.5" flare to the front fenders and inner fenders and could make a quality CF product for fiberglass prices. No one that I am aware of currently offers 67/68 fenders in either FG or CF. FYI, James Shipka has flaired the front fenders on the One Lap Camaro which, IMO, would make a perfect original to pull a mold from. Look at the pic below, note how subtle the flair is on the front fenders. I would be all over a pair of these fenders in CF.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/SPEjamesshipka5-1.jpg
Stick around and keep us informed on your progress. As I said, you can become a sponsor when the time is right.
raustinss
05-30-2016, 04:37 PM
Skins? Are you planning to attach them to the inner structure?
Obviously the doors would be a bolt on ...unless you are a magician and can come up with a way of skining a door ...otherwise yes the above items would be skins and bonded to stock inner structure with God only knows what ...3m has some good stuff I know
gabbett1
05-31-2016, 05:17 AM
I would assume CF roof and door panels could be bonded to the inner structure using the same type of adhesive that the OEMs use. I think you will find that the members here are pretty serious about performance and shaving weight tends to become an obsession. Now that I think about it a CF roof panel might be one method of lowering the CG of a car. I also think there would be a fair amount of interest in a 67/68 Camaro front fenders especially if you were to add a very subtle 1" or 1.5" flare to the front fenders and inner fenders and could make a quality CF product for fiberglass prices. No one that I am aware of currently offers 67/68 fenders in either FG or CF. FYI, James Shipka has flaired the front fenders on the One Lap Camaro which, IMO, would make a perfect original to pull a mold from. Look at the pic below, note how subtle the flair is on the front fenders. I would be all over a pair of these fenders in CF.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/SPEjamesshipka5-1.jpg
Stick around and keep us informed on your progress. As I said, you can become a sponsor when the time is right.
That is a very nice subtle flair! If I could get my hands on that car. We'd do a digital scan that way we'd not have to touch the panel itself.
Parts at fiberglass pricing is next to impossible, but I don't think they'd have to be super expensive either. I'll see what I can do for pricing and let you guys know.
- - - Updated - - -
Obviously the doors would be a bolt on ...unless you are a magician and can come up with a way of skining a door ...otherwise yes the above items would be skins and bonded to stock inner structure with God only knows what ...3m has some good stuff I know
Ok, that helps a lot. I'll look into it and see what I can do. I think I have a few ideas of what they can be attached with. I'll let you know about that as well.
HellPhish89
05-31-2016, 11:08 AM
I have the entire front clip and trunk lid from Anvil in carbon for my Camaro and it didn't cost me $10k. Their hood is $3k and I know I can have it made (cost) in prepreg for less than half of that. The Ring Brothers are charging $30k for a shell of a body. There's no floor or inner structure at all.
The bold seems like it would be obvious seeing the difficulties and complexity of a carbon passenger cell. Assuming that is what you mean by that..haha
raustinss
05-31-2016, 11:53 AM
I agree long flat panels would seem somewhat easy compared to trying to replicate all the inner structure in the proper location with all necessary holes ...weld nuts and access holes that are on the steel
gabbett1
05-31-2016, 02:14 PM
The bold seems like it would be obvious seeing the difficulties and complexity of a carbon passenger cell. Assuming that is what you mean by that..haha
Would it need to 100% mimic the existing metalwork? As long as it fits and everything bolts in, I'm sure there is a decent amount of smoothing that could be done. Plus having the floor attached would be a huge boost to structural strength.
My original plan was to have several different "floor" molds based on what kind of build someone wants to do that can fit into a one piece design so it would be a somewhat modular mold setup.
Thoughts?
raustinss
05-31-2016, 04:52 PM
Well of course you would want it to mirror the stock interior skeleton regardless of the panels bolting and screwing in .....if it was altered this could and would change the performance of the whole car being as its a subframe car, it alters the safety and in one giant swoop engineering and non of this has any mention about legalities
gabbett1
05-31-2016, 06:27 PM
Well of course you would want it to mirror the stock interior skeleton regardless of the panels bolting and screwing in .....if it was altered this could and would change the performance of the whole car being as its a subframe car, it alters the safety and in one giant swoop engineering and non of this has any mention about legalities
Yes, mirror it, but not have to be exactly like it. That's what I was trying to get at.
raustinss
05-31-2016, 08:51 PM
Yes, mirror it, but not have to be exactly like it. That's what I was trying to get at.
yes ...and i was saying no it would need to be the same ....are you an engineer and can atest to a whole pile of facts and formulas that would explain how youve come to the conclusion that x piece in y location is better than stock
gabbett1
06-01-2016, 03:51 AM
yes ...and i was saying no it would need to be the same ....are you an engineer and can atest to a whole pile of facts and formulas that would explain how youve come to the conclusion that x piece in y location is better than stock
I think you and I are talking about the same thing but in different ways. I am not an engineer but we do have one that would look into all of this.
HellPhish89
06-01-2016, 01:44 PM
Would it need to 100% mimic the existing metalwork? As long as it fits and everything bolts in, I'm sure there is a decent amount of smoothing that could be done. Plus having the floor attached would be a huge boost to structural strength.
My original plan was to have several different "floor" molds based on what kind of build someone wants to do that can fit into a one piece design so it would be a somewhat modular mold setup.
Thoughts?
Seems like if one is going to start cutting up the interior structure; a quintessentially Camaro 2+2 passenger cell would be the next logical step that would really bear fruit in terms of performance for money. Especially when we are talking about a unibody car.
Right now for a unibody car, the next real steps to me are: composite front sub-frames, composite suspension pieces, etc.
TheJDMan
06-01-2016, 04:17 PM
All the inner structures in the steel Camaro body are designed to add strength to sheet metal. I doubt any of that structural design would be optimum for a CF body. I would agree that the inner structure needs to have the same attachment points but I suspect it would look significantly different once the design is optimized for CF.
That said, I find the idea of a CF subframe to be a VERY interesting concept which I would actually be more interested in than a body. A CF subframe would go a long way toward reducing weight and if you got Ron Sutton involved in the design process to lay out the suspension geometry, I think it would be a really unique and attractive product that would sell in significant numbers.
http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/
gabbett1
06-01-2016, 05:31 PM
All the inner structures in the steel Camaro body are designed to add strength to sheet metal. I doubt any of that structural design would be optimum for a CF body. I would agree that the inner structure needs to have the same attachment points but I suspect it would look significantly different once the design is optimized for CF.
That said, I find the idea of a CF subframe to be a VERY interesting concept which I would actually be more interested in than a body. A CF subframe would go a long way toward reducing weight and if you got Ron Sutton involved in the design process to lay out the suspension geometry, I think it would be a really unique and attractive product that would sell in significant numbers.
http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/
A CF subframe is an interesting concept, but I'd think a CF unibody would drop a lot more weight than from the subframe. I could be wrong.
IF I can manage to get a CF unibody made, I want to put at trans axle in the car to help shift weight to the rear tires.
TheJDMan
06-01-2016, 05:52 PM
Keep in mind that most of the competition events have minimum weights for these cars. So the only advantage to an ultra light car would be that you would have the ability to place the ballast exactly where it does the most good. The first gen Camaros tend to be nose heavy which is why many people move the battery to the trunk. This is also why I think there would be a larger market for a CF subframe with Ron Sutton suspension geometry than there would be for a CF body.
raustinss
06-01-2016, 06:13 PM
Why don't you post some pics of the c.f. you've made up I know I'd Like to see some before we toss ideas of doing business. Also I want to know how you got a full c.f clip for less than 10 from Anvil, notice in my calculations I left out the trunk lid which would add another 900 $
HellPhish89
06-01-2016, 06:32 PM
All the inner structures in the steel Camaro body are designed to add strength to sheet metal. I doubt any of that structural design would be optimum for a CF body. I would agree that the inner structure needs to have the same attachment points but I suspect it would look significantly different once the design is optimized for CF.
That said, I find the idea of a CF subframe to be a VERY interesting concept which I would actually be more interested in than a body. A CF subframe would go a long way toward reducing weight and if you got Ron Sutton involved in the design process to lay out the suspension geometry, I think it would be a really unique and attractive product that would sell in significant numbers.
http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/
The front subframe would also look very different from stock for the same reasons you mention about the body plus the characteristics of the different weaves of cf. There are quite a few ways to go with it. The biggest issue would be to keep costs reasonable while getting quality to be as high as possible.
http://www.pitt.edu/~awd16/ConferencePaper.pdf
HellPhish89
06-01-2016, 09:50 PM
If one loves cf, one also has to love Koenigsegg..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=504I_hJDFck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGGiuaQwcd8
gabbett1
06-02-2016, 06:17 AM
Why don't you post some pics of the c.f. you've made up I know I'd Like to see some before we toss ideas of doing business. Also I want to know how you got a full c.f clip for less than 10 from Anvil, notice in my calculations I left out the trunk lid which would add another 900 $
They had different pricing when I bought my stuff. They had 100% carbon parts and then they had dry carbon parts that were more expensive. Most of the parts I bought were the 100% carbon because they were cheaper. Accept for the hood, I opted for the dry carbon hood but purchased it for $2,400 because it had minor flaws (small bubbles in one little area).
As for the parts I made, I can try and dig them up, but remember, I am not making them myself. I have a group that has been making CF airplane parts for 10 years now.
gabbett1
06-02-2016, 06:32 AM
What's the best way for hosting/posting images here?
raustinss
06-02-2016, 07:41 AM
Are the pictures on ? Phone ,computer ,Instagram, what's the source because there's different ways
raustinss
06-02-2016, 07:44 AM
They had different pricing when I bought my stuff. They had 100% carbon parts and then they had dry carbon parts that were more expensive. Most of the parts I bought were the 100% carbon because they were cheaper. Accept for the hood, I opted for the dry carbon hood but purchased it for $2,400 because it had minor flaws (small bubbles in one little area).
As for the parts I made, I can try and dig them up, but remember, I am not making them myself. I have a group that has been making CF airplane parts for 10 years now.
OK so yes ago you got good pricing... makes sense now ..yrs ago I bought a #'s matching bb ss chevelle for 6500 Canadian with 95 k original miles ...point is like everything prices and the market change and we need to accommodate. So back to the c.f .....IF you had to repurchase those parts today you see the current prices
gabbett1
06-02-2016, 09:11 AM
Are the pictures on ? Phone ,computer ,Instagram, what's the source because there's different ways
Computer
raustinss
06-02-2016, 01:15 PM
Do you have instagram or photobucket
gabbett1
06-02-2016, 04:07 PM
Do you have instagram or photobucket
No I don't
chevelletiger
06-02-2016, 09:27 PM
Carbon fiber manufacturing is expensive. Car companies have done crazy things like resorting to weaving the carbon thread into the parts they want. Chevy, Ford, Mercedes, and others have had certain alliances at points in time to try to figure out a less expensive way to manufacture carbon/composite parts.
Of course there is also the mold making.. which is also expensive.
IE:
https://youtu.be/UgKvDw1E60E
Lay ups can also be quite complicated:
https://youtu.be/YWbGx_BJVvM
From there.. most higher end manufacturers are going to be using pre-preg carbon and will 'cook' the parts in an autoclave.
Yeah...sorry my friend but those kits and prices for mold making material from companys on youtube or the web are very much priced(over priced)for the general public.
One co. Smooth on wants about $20.00 a pound for there mold making material,
The shop i work at that does molds in euro and silicone can get it for $7.00 a pound and its just an A+B mix and no min. Order.
Im not trying to start a fight here but unless you work in this industry or have played with any of the mat. Please dont comment.
In the past,like the op i got slammed on other sites for making my own suspension parts with the comments of "yeah you need special machines and welders design and bla bla bla)from guys who cant even fkin weld or design s#&t for there life,while i can tig,mig,mill,turn parts out of raw steel and aluminum. While making bad ass parts for alot less then buying,as a matter of fact im in the process of making a lower front chassis brace for a member here.metal cost me about $35.00 and its about 95.00 lower in cost then sc&c
Alot of times guys bash other members because they lack skill or dont have the ballz to take a shot at making something on there own.
What you make a wrong bend and its off?so what...cut that bitch off rebend,weld,done.
What happend to hot rodding? Is it just a bunch of check writing turtle neck wearing *****s that cant think or wrench for themselfs?
Not saying this to any one person btw,but i just get pissed when guys sitting on a keyboard want to act like there experts because they see a video or read about something done and are now taking s#&t! Why dont members try to bring a guy up on an idea and be positive,unless you know the guy or what his skill set is shut the F up!
Theres alot of talented guys that are on this great site.
yeah...sorry my friend but those kits and prices for mold making material from companys on youtube or the web are very much priced(over priced)for the general public.
One co. Smooth on wants about $20.00 a pound for there mold making material,
the shop i work at that does molds in euro and silicone can get it for $7.00 a pound and its just an a+b mix and no min. Order.
Im not trying to start a fight here but unless you work in this industry or have played with any of the mat. Please dont comment.
In the past,like the op i got slammed on other sites for making my own suspension parts with the comments of "yeah you need special machines and welders design and bla bla bla)from guys who cant even fkin weld or design s#&t for there life,while i can tig,mig,mill,turn parts out of raw steel and aluminum. While making bad ass parts for alot less then buying,as a matter of fact im in the process of making a lower front chassis brace for a member here.metal cost me about $35.00 and its about 95.00 lower in cost then sc&c
alot of times guys bash other members because they lack skill or dont have the ballz to take a shot at making something on there own.
What you make a wrong bend and its off?so what...cut that bitch off rebend,weld,done.
What happend to hot rodding? Is it just a bunch of check writing turtle neck wearing *****s that cant think or wrench for themselfs?
Not saying this to any one person btw,but i just get pissed when guys sitting on a keyboard want to act like there experts because they see a video or read about something done and are now taking s#&t! Why dont members try to bring a guy up on an idea and be positive,unless you know the guy or what his skill set is shut the f up!
Theres alot of talented guys that are on this great site.
x1000
raustinss
06-03-2016, 07:02 PM
No I don't
You may have to ask a moderator or see if another member wants to chime in here ....I've only loaded pics from my phone ....not smert enuff...fir da computin machines lol
Cheers
Feel free to pm and I'll give you my email if you want to send pictures and prices when you get a "rough" idea
raustinss
06-03-2016, 07:08 PM
Yeah...sorry my friend but those kits and prices for mold making material from companys on youtube or the web are very much priced(over priced)for the general public.
One co. Smooth on wants about $20.00 a pound for there mold making material,
The shop i work at that does molds in euro and silicone can get it for $7.00 a pound and its just an A+B mix and no min. Order.
Im not trying to start a fight here but unless you work in this industry or have played with any of the mat. Please dont comment.
In the past,like the op i got slammed on other sites for making my own suspension parts with the comments of "yeah you need special machines and welders design and bla bla bla)from guys who cant even fkin weld or design s#&t for there life,while i can tig,mig,mill,turn parts out of raw steel and aluminum. While making bad ass parts for alot less then buying,as a matter of fact im in the process of making a lower front chassis brace for a member here.metal cost me about $35.00 and its about 95.00 lower in cost then sc&c
Alot of times guys bash other members because they lack skill or dont have the ballz to take a shot at making something on there own.
What you make a wrong bend and its off?so what...cut that bitch off rebend,weld,done.
What happend to hot rodding? Is it just a bunch of check writing turtle neck wearing *****s that cant think or wrench for themselfs?
Not saying this to any one person btw,but i just get pissed when guys sitting on a keyboard want to act like there experts because they see a video or read about something done and are now taking s#&t! Why dont members try to bring a guy up on an idea and be positive,unless you know the guy or what his skill set is shut the F up!
Theres alot of talented guys that are on this great site.
Agreed VERY talented people . As a fabricator I get why some things can be a Lil daunting . As someone who has been blessed with common sense I feel that there is a bunch of people who also consider that if they screw up they could kill themselves, family ,friends or a stranger. Not everyone has had the proper training to understand forces, strength material selection etc . This is where sometimes it might just be or is better to be one of those " check writing ****s" .Letting someone else who may have in house engineering i.e. DSE ,ridetech etc design the parts for you is safer and better piece of mind
Agreed VERY talented people . As a fabricator I get why some things can be a Lil daunting . As someone who has been blessed with common sense I feel that there is a bunch of people who also consider that if they screw up they could kill themselves, family ,friends or a stranger. Not everyone has had the proper training to understand forces, strength material selection etc . This is where sometimes it might just be or is better to be one of those " check writing ****s" .Letting someone else who may have in house engineering i.e. DSE ,ridetech etc design the parts for you is safer and better piece of mind
I think you would be shocked at how little actual engineering is done on most of the parts in this sport.
What's the best way for hosting/posting images here?
as for adding a picture from your computer:
click on "go advanced" next to "post quick reply"
Then click manage attachments
It will pop up another window which allows you to upload pictures etc
raustinss
06-03-2016, 08:20 PM
[QUOTE=krom;1190426]I think you would be shocked at how little actual engineering is done on most of the parts in this sport.
Lol please tell me you're joking .... The amount of engineering is nuts , spc a arms? AFX spindles.... Damn near anything DSE or ride tech makes, essentially any form or cad drawings is engineered... what about wheel manufacturers ? ... agree that not EVERYTHING is engineered but there is quite a lot that is
gabbett1
06-03-2016, 08:45 PM
Tried to upload photos via the manage attachments but I keep getting errors. I don't know if there are file size limits? They are already reduced files but maybe they are too large yet?
HellPhish89
06-03-2016, 09:58 PM
Yeah...sorry my friend but those kits and prices for mold making material from companys on youtube or the web are very much priced(over priced)for the general public.
One co. Smooth on wants about $20.00 a pound for there mold making material,
The shop i work at that does molds in euro and silicone can get it for $7.00 a pound and its just an A+B mix and no min. Order.
Im not trying to start a fight here but unless you work in this industry or have played with any of the mat. Please dont comment.
In the past,like the op i got slammed on other sites for making my own suspension parts with the comments of "yeah you need special machines and welders design and bla bla bla)from guys who cant even fkin weld or design s#&t for there life,while i can tig,mig,mill,turn parts out of raw steel and aluminum. While making bad ass parts for alot less then buying,as a matter of fact im in the process of making a lower front chassis brace for a member here.metal cost me about $35.00 and its about 95.00 lower in cost then sc&c
Alot of times guys bash other members because they lack skill or dont have the ballz to take a shot at making something on there own.
What you make a wrong bend and its off?so what...cut that bitch off rebend,weld,done.
What happend to hot rodding? Is it just a bunch of check writing turtle neck wearing *****s that cant think or wrench for themselfs?
Not saying this to any one person btw,but i just get pissed when guys sitting on a keyboard want to act like there experts because they see a video or read about something done and are now taking s#&t! Why dont members try to bring a guy up on an idea and be positive,unless you know the guy or what his skill set is shut the F up!
Theres alot of talented guys that are on this great site.
Holy christ the videos were used as an example. Not sure if you were drunk when you came up with that rant but yes, autoclaves are a pretty big part of high end cf construction and especially for stuff that is load bearing.
HellPhish89
06-03-2016, 10:02 PM
Tried to upload photos via the manage attachments but I keep getting errors. I don't know if there are file size limits? They are already reduced files but maybe they are too large yet?
I tried uploading a pdf the other day and I got a 406? error. Pdf's are allowed on here. Anywho, best to host em and post em up.
[QUOTE=krom;1190426]I think you would be shocked at how little actual engineering is done on most of the parts in this sport.
Lol please tell me you're joking .... The amount of engineering is nuts , spc a arms? AFX spindles.... Damn near anything DSE or ride tech makes, essentially any form or cad drawings is engineered... what about wheel manufacturers ? ... agree that not EVERYTHING is engineered but there is quite a lot that is
Nope, not joking.
Anybody can draw anything in cad, that isn't engineering.
Engineering is determining the loads the part will see (which is often the hardest part), then determining the acceptable deflection.
The design work of choosing the material (cost vs weight usually the goals in our stuff), designing the part (part geometry is dependent on material properties), analyzing it to make sure it meets your deflection goals, then determining manufacturing process (again cost vs weight) is done iteratively, until you come up with a material, and geometry that meet all the mechanical goals, and cost goals.
Then you build a couple and test them to see if reality matches up with the design work.
chevelletiger
06-04-2016, 10:12 AM
No hellphish89 I was not drunk,I really don't drink unless I'm in Vegas with my wife and friends!
And I agree with you about there being a small part of engineering in this "hobby" let's remember we think these are race cars were building but there really just toys for adults.
Ryan your from a fabricating back ground,me?machining and design back ground.
Actually from what I here one person who is listed as an engineer at ride tech really never got his degree in that field, it was English. It doesn't mean he understand the math and principles of engineering.
As for there being nuts of engineering on aftermarkets parts,there's some but not nasa engineering like your claiming.seems your not confident in you fabrication skills.i am.
gabbett1
06-04-2016, 04:50 PM
Yeah, I can't figure out why it won't allow me to upload pictures...
raustinss
06-04-2016, 10:17 PM
No hellphish89 I was not drunk,I really don't drink unless I'm in Vegas with my wife and friends!
And I agree with you about there being a small part of engineering in this "hobby" let's remember we think these are race cars were building but there really just toys for adults.
Ryan your from a fabricating back ground,me?machining and design back ground.
Actually from what I here one person who is listed as an engineer at ride tech really never got his degree in that field, it was English. It doesn't mean he understand the math and principles of engineering.
As for there being nuts of engineering on aftermarkets parts,there's some but not nasa engineering like your claiming.seems your not confident in you fabrication skills.i am.
Dude first of all where the sam hell did I mention anything about bass engineering and I'm am more than beyond confident in my fab skills ...stop being ignorant I have the highest level training in Canada and graduated with honors ....I fab lots of stuff for Toyota on a regular basis being as two plants are within a short drive of our shop ....I said SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT WANT TO FAB SOMETHING DUE TO PIECE OF MIND ....
dhutton
06-05-2016, 06:12 AM
I don't understand all the negativity in this thread. I welcome and encourage anyone who wants to bring parts to the market. I will reserve judgement on their quality etc until I see them....
Don
gabbett1
06-05-2016, 08:05 AM
I don't understand all the negativity in this thread. I welcome and encourage anyone who wants to bring parts to the market. I will reserve judgement on their quality etc until I see them....
Don
Thank you Don.
RLJ676
06-05-2016, 09:55 AM
If you could make parts priced competitively to Anvil, in the states and actually delivered on a real time table I think you'd be very successful. Please add some second gen stuff haha.
I too don't get the negativity towards the question and assumption here. To assume the Ring Brothers price of $40k is fair is ridiculous. It might be, but I'm pretty sure they are out to make money, as much as possible, on low volume. Others could expect to sell at lower margin high volume. Further, if I'm the guy that commissioned that bad ass Mustang they built the molds for, I'd have set it up that they couldn't pump those out left and right, otherwise why spend the $1M with them (or more) on the original only to see copies everywhere later. So the 40k could be completely arbitrary so they only sell a couple.
Final comment on engineering of the aftermarket, I'd say there's some involved by some of the guys, but I'd put up not a single one of them do the type of design and validation work of an OEM, just wouldn't be feasible. There is always more risk on aftermarket stuff than stock, as there's no way to ammortize the millions and millions of ED&D work per part over a few thousand (if lucky) sold parts.
Mr.VENGEANCE
06-05-2016, 10:20 AM
If you could make parts priced competitively to Anvil, in the states and actually delivered on a real time table I think you'd be very successful. Please add some second gen stuff haha.
I can't see that being possible.. They send to China for a reason.
Delivered on a real time table?.. i don't think thats possible in the long haul if you have proper interest.. unless you come out of pocket to fund a large batch to sell out the door and no pre orders cause thats what usually trips up damn near everyone who I have seen do it through the forums.. Including Anvil unfortunately... Thats why I didn't want to sell my flare kit unless I had product ready to go out the door.
And second gen parts?.. oh the prayers must be stacked to heavens roof for that.. lol!
gabbett1
06-05-2016, 10:42 AM
I can't see that being possible.. They send to China for a reason.
Delivered on a real time table?.. i don't think thats possible in the long haul if you have proper interest.. unless you come out of pocket to fund a large batch to sell out the door and no pre orders cause thats what usually trips up damn near everyone who I have seen do it through the forums.. Including Anvil unfortunately... Thats why I didn't want to sell my flare kit unless I had product ready to go out the door.
And second gen parts?.. oh the prayers must be stacked to heavens roof for that.. lol!
I know it's possible. I already know that I could sell hoods for Corvettes for example for $500 less than Anvil and make a killing of a margin. On a prepreg part nonetheless.
raustinss
06-05-2016, 11:12 AM
Let me be the first to ask then how come your not ? ....I know there isn't too many vette guys here but it would be a great way to get your foot in the door yes ?
gabbett1
06-05-2016, 11:28 AM
Let me be the first to ask then how come your not ? ....I know there isn't too many vette guys here but it would be a great way to get your foot in the door yes ?
I am. I'm in the process. Biggest reason why I'm thinking about the Camaro body ATM is because I'm currently building one for myself and thought a full CF body would be the way to go, but obviously a much larger investment.
raustinss
06-05-2016, 12:36 PM
Oh for sure ... going back to the very beginning of the thread..... I still think it could would and probably will be too much money but .....maybe easier to bring out some parts for the cars first before diving into a full body
dhutton
06-05-2016, 03:36 PM
Gerry sent me some pics to post. Here are most of them.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00352-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00352.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_20140822_085546_700-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/IMG_20140822_085546_700.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00351-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00351.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00515-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00515.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00315-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00315.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00320-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00320.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00328-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00328.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00348-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00348.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00326-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00326.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00329-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00329.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00339-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00339.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00330-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00330.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00349-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00349.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00350-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00350.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00519-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00519.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00522-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00522.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/DSC00528-1.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/dhutton_pics/media/DSC00528.jpg.html)
TheJDMan
06-05-2016, 03:59 PM
Isn't that a Lancair?
RLJ676
06-05-2016, 04:06 PM
I can't see that being possible.. They send to China for a reason.
Delivered on a real time table?.. i don't think thats possible in the long haul if you have proper interest.. unless you come out of pocket to fund a large batch to sell out the door and no pre orders cause thats what usually trips up damn near everyone who I have seen do it through the forums.. Including Anvil unfortunately... Thats why I didn't want to sell my flare kit unless I had product ready to go out the door.
And second gen parts?.. oh the prayers must be stacked to heavens roof for that.. lol!
They also scrap a ton, which isn't free. Getting parts right first time would certainly help. Further shipping stateside from there on parts like hoods, etc eat up a lot of their landed cost which could certainly go to the labor difference. Raw material costs should be no better there for similar quality. Therefore yes, I would absolutely believe it could be done local. Only thing that might be worth having done there is mold making for low volume stuff, but that's only if you find a reliable toolmaker there... not easy always.
As for timetable, if you can't figure out how to make and deliver a non-custom product in a month there's something very wrong. Even build to order can be done on a time table, not just "someday" which is Anvil's current performance. Sometimes one month, sometimes almost a year. Makes it impossible to plan into a build for most people.
Anvil has found a market for 2nd gen, as has most other pro touring companies lol. Would be curious what the split in sales is for someone like Ridetech etc.
dhutton
06-05-2016, 04:28 PM
That's what the banner on the wall says. Of course I have no idea what a Lancair is... 😀
Don
dhutton
06-05-2016, 04:37 PM
They also scrap a ton, which isn't free. Getting parts right first time would certainly help. Further shipping stateside from there on parts like hoods, etc eat up a lot of their landed cost which could certainly go to the labor difference. Raw material costs should be no better there for similar quality. Therefore yes, I would absolutely believe it could be done local. Only thing that might be worth having done there is mold making for low volume stuff, but that's only if you find a reliable toolmaker there... not easy always.
As for timetable, if you can't figure out how to make and deliver a non-custom product in a month there's something very wrong. Even build to order can be done on a time table, not just "someday" which is Anvil's current performance. Sometimes one month, sometimes almost a year. Makes it impossible to plan into a build for most people.
Anvil has found a market for 2nd gen, as has most other pro touring companies lol. Would be curious what the split in sales is for someone like Ridetech etc.
I'm could be wrong but I think Anvil's long lead-times are because they hold product in China until they have a full container to minimize shipping cost and limit shipping damage. I also think they wait until they have a minimum number of orders for a given part before they produce them. Pure speculation on my part...
I ordered my Anvil parts one year before I needed them.
Don
raustinss
06-05-2016, 04:38 PM
Hoods look good ...guess the plane does to lol... so what would you sell a hood for one of those corvettes for . Comparison that's all
TheJDMan
06-05-2016, 04:38 PM
Anvil makes CF wide body 69 Camaro fenders but when I asked them about CF 68 Camaro flaired fenders they simply said that they could not make a flair on the 68 fender and they indicated they were not interested in trying.
Mr.VENGEANCE
06-05-2016, 05:01 PM
Anvil makes CF wide body 69 Camaro fenders but when I asked them about CF 68 Camaro flaired fenders they simply said that they could not make a flair on the 68 fender and they indicated they were not interested in trying.
They asked me to be a distributor for mine.. which is why I have mine out now.. sooo you know..mine work on 67s AND 68s.. lol!
raustinss
06-05-2016, 05:41 PM
They asked me to be a distributor for mine.. which is why I have mine out now.. sooo you know..mine work on 67s AND 68s.. lol!
I'm sure as long as you have a calendar,you will make money ....in case you live in a cave and haven't seen . Anvil can't deliver on time if there lives depended on it . I ordered a 70 chevelle hood from them back in January, was told I'd have it in April , next week sometime will put them at 2 months late with no communication from them
TheJDMan
06-05-2016, 06:25 PM
They asked me to be a distributor for mine.. which is why I have mine out now.. sooo you know..mine work on 67s AND 68s.. lol!
I appreciate your style and your car is kick ass, but it's not my style. When I say flared fender I'm thinking in terms of the very subtle flare like that on the One Lap Camaro. (see pic earlier in this thread) BTW, I love your art!
chevelletiger
06-05-2016, 07:56 PM
Gerry,nice parts!
Are those fiberglass molds you made off the oem part?
Have you looked into a flexible poly mold material? BJB Enterprises Inc is one co. We use for our molds.
You can make then in different durometers and they last for years and can really take a beating.
Fiberlay is another co.
Phil.
gabbett1
06-06-2016, 03:51 AM
Isn't that a Lancair?
That is Lancair. I'm not doing my parts through them though.
gabbett1
06-06-2016, 03:56 AM
Hoods look good ...guess the plane does to lol... so what would you sell a hood for one of those corvettes for . Comparison that's all
Haven't sold one yet. Those were my first attempts. I made those in my garage via resin infusion, but I didn't have an oven to post cure with. I was trying to figure out the best way to get my parts baked in an oven or autoclave when I started talking about this group that wants to help me make the parts. They have the autoclave and skills with prepreg as well as high end mold making to get it all done. Keeps my overhead down, and my garage clean, lol.
gabbett1
06-06-2016, 03:57 AM
Anvil makes CF wide body 69 Camaro fenders but when I asked them about CF 68 Camaro flaired fenders they simply said that they could not make a flair on the 68 fender and they indicated they were not interested in trying.
That may be something I could do as well. I plan to look into it at least.
gabbett1
06-06-2016, 03:59 AM
They asked me to be a distributor for mine.. which is why I have mine out now.. sooo you know..mine work on 67s AND 68s.. lol!
Oh if you already make some, then that's great. Do you mind linking me to your site? I'd like to see what you offer.
gabbett1
06-06-2016, 04:01 AM
Gerry,nice parts!
Are those fiberglass molds you made off the oem part?
Have you looked into a flexible poly mold material? BJB Enterprises Inc is one co. We use for our molds.
You can make then in different durometers and they last for years and can really take a beating.
Fiberlay is another co.
Phil.
Thank you. Yes those were fiberglass molds. Those were the first molds I ever made in fact, lol. The group helping me will be making all of the molds. They can make high production molds which saves me the learning curve of doing it myself.
Mr.VENGEANCE
06-06-2016, 07:17 AM
I appreciate your style and your car is kick ass, but it's not my style. When I say flared fender I'm thinking in terms of the very subtle flare like that on the One Lap Camaro. (see pic earlier in this thread) BTW, I love your art!
aaah I gotchu..
Yep I know its really a very specific taste to do bolt on flares and I don't expect much.. but the cool thing is just having the option out there.
Mr.VENGEANCE
06-06-2016, 07:18 AM
Oh if you already make some, then that's great. Do you mind linking me to your site? I'd like to see what you offer.
yea man I already have the parts now.. just check my sig.
nothing special.. just the fellow enthusiast making a few things we might like.
RLJ676
06-06-2016, 04:41 PM
aaah I gotchu..
Yep I know its really a very specific taste to do bolt on flares and I don't expect much.. but the cool thing is just having the option out there.
Options out there are awesome, the more the better! I think they look great as I've told you, definitely will consider for my 72 if you get them out there.
gabbett1
06-09-2016, 04:36 AM
I thought I saw an all CF 2nd gen at Sema several years back. Nobody's selling those parts?
gabbett1
06-13-2016, 04:57 AM
I'll be meeting with my guys building the parts for me in the next couple weeks so I'm hoping to have more information on pricing after then.
raustinss
06-13-2016, 06:32 AM
I look forward to hearing back...cheers
gabbett1
06-14-2016, 10:52 AM
I look forward to hearing back...cheers
:cheers:
gabbett1
06-27-2016, 11:25 AM
So far I haven't been able to get as much information as I would have liked. The main person I need to work with was gone for some of the time and sick while he's been here... What we believe as of right now is a rough estimate that a complete monocoque body could be sold somewhere in the $50k range. Take in mind that this is a complete unit and not needing work besides possible minor modifications and body work for paint. Something like the Ring Bros car will need a lot more work done to finish out the car and would cost a lot more in the end. By making the unibody in all carbon, the estimated weight of it all would be around 100 lbs vs 600+ lbs when in metal.
raustinss
06-27-2016, 02:09 PM
the problem there after is going to be registration and seems to be more of a U.S. problem then in canada ....as per some previous threads reg. re-vin # new sheet metal shells
gabbett1
06-27-2016, 02:43 PM
the problem there after is going to be registration and seems to be more of a U.S. problem then in canada ....as per some previous threads reg. re-vin # new sheet metal shells
Yes, I was wondering about that as well. Shouldn't be a problem if someone tries to get a vin as a kit car. If someone is trying to register it as a genuine 69 Camaro, that may be tough. Probably depends on the state.
HellPhish89
07-05-2016, 03:48 PM
at least in my state: Because the body is a reproduction of the original; the car can be registered as that model and model year. I am not entirely sure if you make up the vin number or if one is issued or what.
raustinss
07-05-2016, 05:45 PM
So at 50 k ....possibly having safety and some registration issues ....would it not be better off going the way of something like everything from Anvil (in the case of a camaro ) and be a little heavier ?
not by much thou if you watch the Jay Leno ring brothers interview they state the weight of the Mustang with carbon skin ....which is my suggestion if your a ford guy . That way you maintain registration, factory ford or gm engineering, safety and , probably keep some cash in your pocket ?
With above said cases you know all interior components will still fit as they should, not have to run extra wires for grounds . I'm sure there is some other things I can't recall right now
gabbett1
07-07-2016, 10:59 AM
So at 50 k ....possibly having safety and some registration issues ....would it not be better off going the way of something like everything from Anvil (in the case of a camaro ) and be a little heavier ?
not by much thou if you watch the Jay Leno ring brothers interview they state the weight of the Mustang with carbon skin ....which is my suggestion if your a ford guy . That way you maintain registration, factory ford or gm engineering, safety and , probably keep some cash in your pocket ?
With above said cases you know all interior components will still fit as they should, not have to run extra wires for grounds . I'm sure there is some other things I can't recall right now
Why do you think that safety would suffer, or that we would make it as light as possible even to spite strength? I asked this question to the gentleman that will be making my parts and they assured me that the car would be MUCH safer and stronger in full carbon. He referred me to an airplane accident that happened once where the plane hit the ground at 140mph. The passengers were killed by the sheer force of the hit, but the cockpit appeared to be structurally in tact. As if you could put on a new set of wings and fly it away. That means that the car should be able to withstand a lot and you shouldn't have the concern of being crushed in the car.
Covering the metal frame with outer skins doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because what's the point? There isn't a ton of weight in just the metal skins. You won't be saving much in weight. IMO you'd be better off just doing the car in all metal and skinning it if you are going for the carbon look.
Now if registration is an issue and someone wants to have a true '69, then this product probably isn't for you. I wouldn't think anyone modifying their car this much is going to be concerned about it being a true 69 vs it still looking like the real thing.
Edit: Re reading this later it comes across to me as if my first sentence is somewhat attacking you and I want to make it clear that I'm not. I'm just asking the question.
raustinss
07-07-2016, 02:57 PM
not taking it as a n attack , i have thick skin lol .... the safety issue is that carbon splinters and sprays those fibers . Not too mention crush zones , no matter how good or bad they were designed in the 60-70's . i know that metal skins dont weight that much but i urge you the find the video of leno driving one of ring brothers mustangs ... they say the weight of the body ... it is quite light just found the video on youtube ...they guess the stock body to be around 7-800 lbs and they claim the carbon to be 180 ......jay lenos garage its a 30 min video ...weights mentioned in the first 3 mins
as for registration it wouldn't be so much a issue here as it seems Canada is way more relaxed than the states with what defines a car ....( I.E re-vinning) . it would help with the insurance issue and on that note if there was a collision or theft of said car. there would be a difference with values and parts availability. even thou we all know the parts would be the same . what i trying to say is it would be easier for an insurance company to screw you if your car had a "kit" car title vs a 1969 camaro title for example .
hiding under the name of a kit car requires "more" work for a insurance company to find parts yet when its a "production car its easy to valve the car and or the sum of its parts
gabbett1
07-07-2016, 05:59 PM
I have no doubt that all of their carbon weights about 180 lbs. The car as a whole weights roughly 3,000 lbs. They have a lot of extra metal in framework that adds a ton of weight that we wouldn't need in a monocoque design. I saw a raw Ringbrothers body and the frame that went with it. Like I've said in prior posts, there is basically no structure to their carbon parts. At least not the unibody section.
Steel will crumple and not splinter true, but steel will also fail after a certain amount of force, just like Carbon will. Carbon will just be able to hold it's strength to a much higher force than steel will.
Gotta remember, formula one cars have an all carbon cockpit. If it wasn't safe/safer, they wouldn't be using it.
TheJDMan
07-07-2016, 07:05 PM
I don't see titling as an issue since you can build any number of kit cars these days and get the finished project registered in any state in the US as near as I can tell. But, I am curious about things like the structural strength/rigidity of a CF body. By that I just mean some racing competitions require roll bars or cages to be installed for a car to be legal. In the typical steel body subframe connectors and roll bars/cages add strength and rigidity but how would a roll bar/cage work in a CF body? I'm also curious how hard CF is to modify? I'm thinking of body mods like say installing mini-tubs, just as an example, and I'm also trying to envision how one would go about installing any of the popular PT coilover based rear suspensions in a CF shell.
gabbett1
07-08-2016, 04:44 AM
I don't see titling as an issue since you can build any number of kit cars these days and get the finished project registered in any state in the US as near as I can tell. But, I am curious about things like the structural strength/rigidity of a CF body. By that I just mean some racing competitions require roll bars or cages to be installed for a car to be legal. In the typical steel body subframe connectors and roll bars/cages add strength and rigidity but how would a roll bar/cage work in a CF body? I'm also curious how hard CF is to modify? I'm thinking of body mods like say installing mini-tubs, just as an example, and I'm also trying to envision how one would go about installing any of the popular PT coilover based rear suspensions in a CF shell.
One of the design features I would like to implement into the molds would be a modular design. Meaning we would design the basic floor pan and have inserts for what ever change someone wants to make. Mini tubs, changed tunnel, etc, those things would be fairly easy to do in the part making process. Any other major modifications one would want to do to the external body could be done for an little extra cost. I know most wouldn't need to but it would be something we offer anyway.
As stated above, you can make a CF body extremely strong. In the airplane example I gave earlier, basically two cars going 70 mph could hit head on and you would not break the cabin.
Here's an example video of how much stronger CF can be than steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjErH4_1fks
raustinss
07-08-2016, 05:21 AM
Yes but you still want crush zones .... otherwise it's a human which must absorb the impact energy, race cars somewhat combat this with race seats, harnesses and Hans devices ...
gabbett1
07-08-2016, 05:30 AM
Yes but you still want crush zones .... otherwise it's a human which must absorb the impact energy, race cars somewhat combat this with race seats, harnesses and Hans devices ...
Crush zones are not good in old cars anyway. Advancements in steel that makes it possible for the safety of modern cars didn't come about till almost 2000. Older Corvettes don't have crush zones either and I don't hear people complaining about it. I think you are making a much bigger deal out of it than it really is.
Personally, I'd rather have my cockpit not crush me vs the minor amount of absorption it will take before smashing me inside the car...
https://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g
gabbett1
07-08-2016, 06:31 AM
There are modern cars with a carbon fiber monocoque. The Lamborghini Aventador is one as well as the Koenigsegg and many others.
raustinss
07-08-2016, 10:27 AM
are you on glue ...? how the hell do you think new cars are built ...im a fabricator and do TONS of work for toyota canada .....crush zones are built into every car starting at the front bumper , go look at some info about the newer F150's , the lambo still has crush zones...again starting at the front end and stopping before the interior cabin . do a google search of crush zones ,crumple zones etc . you are clearly missing the point and or info. advancements in metal technology is crazy , even if there isnt a crumple zone in the literal sense of what we all think auto manufactures will add softer metal in certain areas to absorb the energy created by the impact
gabbett1
07-08-2016, 03:07 PM
are you on glue ...? how the hell do you think new cars are built ...im a fabricator and do TONS of work for toyota canada .....crush zones are built into every car starting at the front bumper , go look at some info about the newer F150's , the lambo still has crush zones...again starting at the front end and stopping before the interior cabin . do a google search of crush zones ,crumple zones etc . you are clearly missing the point and or info. advancements in metal technology is crazy , even if there isnt a crumple zone in the literal sense of what we all think auto manufactures will add softer metal in certain areas to absorb the energy created by the impact
Where did I say newer vehicles don't have crumple zones? Where did I say the Lambo didn't? Old cars might have had some built into them but they were nowhere near as effective as newer vehicles, especially after 2000 where they were able to make significant advancements in metal strength. I think you are missing my point. My point is that old cars, classic cars, don't have near the safety as a newer vehicle in the sense of crumple zones. I linked the video that showed just that. The newer vehicle cockpit stayed mostly in tact while the classic car cockpit was crushed. My point was that I would rather not be crushed in my cockpit like the old cars tend to do. Where am I wrong here?
raustinss
07-08-2016, 04:47 PM
Your wrong in the aspect that you want to take a car that admittedly sucks in crashes and want to make it worse by making it stronger .....you would Want to add crush zones so that the car would react much like a new car ....and the chirps about new cars is a reference to the 2000 and up model yrs .....crush zones have been designed into cars way before then ...and I certainly don't see why that's the year you think changed everything
gabbett1
07-08-2016, 05:14 PM
Your wrong in the aspect that you want to take a car that admittedly sucks in crashes and want to make it worse by making it stronger .....you would Want to add crush zones so that the car would react much like a new car ....and the chirps about new cars is a reference to the 2000 and up model yrs .....crush zones have been designed into cars way before then ...and I certainly don't see why that's the year you think changed everything
How are we supposed to design crumple zones when we're only designing the unibody and not the firewall forward where the largest majority of that would be placed anyway? You are wrong in thinking by making it stronger will make it worse. Sure you might take a little more shock to your body but your body won't get crushed by the collapsing cockpit. I'd take some whip lash over a crushed torso any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Look, we will design as much safety into the car as we possibly can, but if someone is looking for modern safety then you really have no business looking at a classic car. If you want modern safety then buy a new car.
It changed around the early 2000's because they added about 1/3 more strength into the stamping process of metal.
It Starts With the SteelConsidering all of the rapid developments we've seen with electronic safety systems in recent years, it's perhaps counter intuitive that some of the biggest safety improvements in the past decade have come from good old-fashioned steel. "Over the past 10 to 15 years, steels have been getting stronger," says Chuck Thomas, chief engineer at Honda R&D Americas, in Raymond, Ohio. "We probably had 500 megapascals of tensile strength in the early 2000s. Now hot-pressed or hot-stamped steel is around 1,500 megapascals." At that strength you can hang 200,000 pounds on an inch-wide strip without tearing it in two. The high-strength steel is stamped hot and then quickly cooled, allowing for complex shapes and a wide variability in yield strength, which helps determine how a car deforms in an accident.
David Leone, executive chief engineer for Cadillac, says that the use of high-strength steel isn't about turning passenger cars into invincible tanks but controlling crash energy and minimizing weight. "Heavy does not mean safe," Leone says. "Heavy means heavy. Go back to the '50s and '60s. The cars were heavy. They were stiff. But if you ran into the wall, you bounced off the wall and all the deceleration went through your body. Heavy and stiff is not where you want to be."
These advances in steel—along with strategic use of other materials such as aluminum, magnesium, and carbon fiber—allow engineers to design structures that can dissipate and redirect crash forces. For example, the new Cadillac CTS uses lightweight aluminum "crush cans" up front to soak up a lot of energy before an impact reaches the passengers. Even the CTS's seat-belt spools unwind slightly during a crash to help minimize forces on your body.
The effective mix of stronger materials and crush zones is evident in a slow-motion video of the 2014 Acura MDX undergoing an offset-frontal crash test. As the car slams into the barrier at 40 mph, the front end deforms alarmingly until the shock wave reaches the firewall, where it meets high-strength steel stamped at 1,600 degrees Fahrenheit. Instead of continuing its collapse, the car pivots away from the barrier, absorbing the remaining energy. From the front door forward, the car is annihilated. From the door back, it's completely intact.
raustinss
07-08-2016, 06:53 PM
Crush zones can and should be built into the rear section ...i.e trunk
gabbett1
07-09-2016, 04:37 AM
Crush zones can and should be built into the rear section ...i.e trunk
Well like I said, we will make it as safe as we can with what we have to work with.
raustinss
07-09-2016, 07:54 AM
well none of this matters being as im not seening this hitting production....i cant and dont see anyone lining up for a 50,000 body. just trying to be realistic
gabbett1
07-09-2016, 11:56 AM
well none of this matters being as im not seening this hitting production....i cant and dont see anyone lining up for a 50,000 body. just trying to be realistic
I don't totally disagree with you there
raustinss
07-09-2016, 02:20 PM
lol ...
cheers ..guess we will see ...
i certainly hope you do as it will change the industry ... how would you do it ? buy a new body shell and mold from it ?
gabbett1
07-09-2016, 03:03 PM
lol ...
cheers ..guess we will see ...
i certainly hope you do as it will change the industry ... how would you do it ? buy a new body shell and mold from it ?
Either that or use the body from my current car I'm building.
I'd start with a perfect, or near perfect car original car, and have it scanned.
Then a plug, or the molds can be CNC'd.
gabbett1
07-10-2016, 01:13 PM
I'd start with a perfect, or near perfect car original car, and have it scanned.
Then a plug, or the molds can be CNC'd.
That would be ideal for sure.
HellPhish89
07-18-2016, 08:51 PM
Forged Carbon Fiber:
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/13/lamborghini-forged-composite-carbon-fiber/
So... who wants to be the first? Seems this tech is the eventual less expensive way to the structural stuff that many want.
gabbett1
07-30-2016, 03:56 AM
Things are moving along, but slowly. Looks like the first part we may try to produce is a one piece T-Top replacement for C3 corvettes. We will continue to look into the Camaro unibody to get a better idea of actual cost.
raustinss
07-30-2016, 07:30 AM
Don't recall who but someone else does make a carbon c3 roof
gabbett1
07-31-2016, 04:53 AM
Don't recall who but someone else does make a carbon c3 roof
That's definitely news to me. If you can find it please share. I've never been able to find it and I've had a lot of people ask for one.
raustinss
07-31-2016, 05:50 AM
"Project menace" built by heartland customs . There's pictures our there.... Hell maybe on here , I've seen them
Edit * page 5 has a picture ,not sure if in the thread it mentions where they got it from but , either way you know who built the car
gabbett1
07-31-2016, 03:10 PM
"Project menace" built by heartland customs . There's pictures our there.... Hell maybe on here , I've seen them
Edit * page 5 has a picture ,not sure if in the thread it mentions where they got it from but , either way you know who built the car
From everything I've been able to find, that appears to be a one off piece made for that project. They don't appear to be selling them. Besides, I'm looking at a one piece T-Top right now, not a hardtop.
gabbett1
09-16-2016, 04:14 AM
Hey everyone, it's been a while since my last reply. I've had to put a few things on hold for a bit because there's been a few tragedies in my life recently but I'm moving forward once again. Still starting with one piece T-tops for C3 Vettes, but I'm also producing for myself a carbon convertible top and will advertise it for interest on that as a product as well.
OLDFLM
09-16-2016, 07:38 AM
Alloway's did a one piece targa top for the black C3 they took to SEMA last year but I don't think it was CF... I'm sure there would be a LOT of interest if you produced one that worked on T-top cars! The C3s are like the 2nd Gen F-bodies in that they were produced for over a decade and many parts interchange... great idea!
gabbett1
09-20-2016, 03:43 AM
Alloway's did a one piece targa top for the black C3 they took to SEMA last year but I don't think it was CF... I'm sure there would be a LOT of interest if you produced one that worked on T-top cars! The C3s are like the 2nd Gen F-bodies in that they were produced for over a decade and many parts interchange... great idea!
Thanks! I'm hopeful it sells well. I'll definitely look for areas in the market that aren't covered and make more if things go well.
gabbett1
10-09-2016, 06:25 AM
Just a quick update. The group helping me with my parts fell behind on their large project and it's pushed all of my stuff back. I'll keep you posted when we make some actual progress.
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