71 z/28 pro touring build in Australia commences...

[camaros down under]

Hello from Australia. I recently bought this 1971 z/28 Camaro from Restore A Muscle Car dot com via the internet (didn't see the car in person until it arrived in Australia).

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This picture was taken by them after I had some body work done to it. Everything went well and the car arrived safe and sound and is now resting in storage while I work out exactly what to do with it.

My first question, of many, is:
Side mirrors- I was thinking of putting new Camaro side mirrors on this but I think they may be too big.
I have been talking to Oracle Lighting and apparently 4 or 5 people have put their Camaro concept mirrors on older Camaros.
So, does anyone have pictures of old Camaros with Oracle side mirrors on them. How hard were they to attach? Body modifications? etc.

I have found this picture of a Camaro with custom mirrors and they look pretty cool, so I assume the Oracle mirrors will look similar.
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Thanks. I will post more questions soon

p.s. I may post this question on other Camaro fan sites, so sorry if you have to see this same question over and over again...

[nebdrummer]

I look forward to seeing the build. I've been in restore a few times. I used to live by it. They do some good work.

[Godbolt]

I'm a big fan of this 72' by Pure Vision, you've probably seen it....

http://www.purevisiondesign.com/rides/galleries/1972-tt-camaro.html

[camaros down under]

Thanks. I look forward to driving the thing one day.
It would be nice to have had them do my whole build, they were really nice people to deal with, but I want to be able to see the car in the flesh slowly coming to life. And I will try and help/hinder where I can

[camaros down under]

Godbolt your car looks unreal! Have you a colour in mind?
I saw a picture of the pure vision camaro a while ago but only just saw a clip on youtube of it being drooled over by 'car cast'.
You be more interested in this clip though... If you haven't already seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-PKMzfBgc

[Godbolt]

Thanks - hadn't seen that clip.
As for colour, I really like the Aston Martin tungsten that the pure vision camaro is painted.
Meanwhile my scope creep continues as I've just pulled the trigger on a Motec ECU and will run it with a custom harness.
Where in Aussie are you?

[camaros down under]

There are some cars that only look good in certain colours, but I don't think I've ever seen a Mustang in a colour that doesn't suit it. They're very versatile. But back to Camaros... :)

[camaros down under]

I'm meant to be doing uni work, but:
I suppose I will give people an idea of what my project will (hopefully) look like.
The plan is, keep it simple. I want an old Camaro shell on a new Camaro/ Corvette sort of thing.
I have original rear lights, chrome bumperettes for the front and a few noses and grille inserts already.
I want to keep that 'stock' look.
I want it to be able to be driven on the streets so I can take it away for a week or drive it 'every' day or whatever. And still take it to a track a few times a year.
So, RHD conversion (no haters...).
LT4 engine and matching trans.
Independent rear suspension.
Aluminium sub frame with connectors.
Oh, and most importantly, carbon fibre hood and panels on the front.
Some parts that the second gen Camaro have at the front aren't made by Anvil, so I will substitute for fibre glass.
(fiber or fibre?)
What else?
New interior, not sure what from though. I was thinking a new holden commodore. Or Camaro if they ever make thm in RHD. Or full custom depending on costs.
I do like the new z28 recaro seats.
Forgeline wheels.
I will probably vinyl wrap the car at first (Matte finish). That way I can try a few different colours over time before settling on a final colour.
I think that's everything. Nice and simple...

[camaros down under]

So at the moment my car is in storage and I go look at it once a month, I'm due in a few days. But in the meantime, looking at a few camaros and firebirds of the same year on here, I think my car may have mini tubs. Can anyone tell from these pics taken when I bought it?

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[badazz81z28]

Just a couple inputs....avoid an aluminum frame. There are many aftermarket steel frames that are awesome. if you have plans for a C7 LT4, you'll want a stiff frame.

The independent rear is a ton of work and very expensive. Unless you're competing, it's not worth the work. You gain very little over a 4 link from Detroit Speed.

[Dragonfly]

Or go with a speed tech torque arm rear suspension especially if you want to keep the back seats. I don't think that car is mini tubbed hard to tell from the pics but if it were you would see a weld vertically where the wheel well and the rear firewall meet

[Josh@Ridetech]

Cool rendering!

[camaros down under]

Thanks Badazz, any input is much needed at this stage! I'm not going to compete in anything official as we don't have autocross events in Australia (as far as I know) but I will take this to track days every now and then.
I try and read what others are doing and there are so many options. Which is great for a car nearly 50 years old but spoiled by choice :)

Dragonfly, back seats can come in handy. So you lose the back seat with the 4 link from Detroit speed too? I don't think it's mini tubed either, but I will have a look next time I visit it. Would be a nice bonus.

Josh, The car in the render looks very nice, but I can't claim it as mine. Not sure who made the render as I saved the pic a few years ago now. Gave me lots of inspiration- Lack of chrome around windows, stance, side mirrors...
I'm pretty sure the car got made in real life and had something to do with a breast cancer charity so perhaps they auctioned it off.

Thanks again and any input is much welcome

[kimosabi]

Or go with a speed tech torque arm rear suspension especially if you want to keep the back seats. I don't think that car is mini tubbed hard to tell from the pics but if it were you would see a weld vertically where the wheel well and the rear firewall meet

This or do it even easier, go with quality composite leafs and a watts link. You lose "some" travel over a 4-link but if you're gonna lower it that travel cancels itself out. I'm super impressed with my composite leafs.

[camaros down under]

No mini tubs for me :( Upon closer inspection they are stock rear wheel hubs (i think that's the right word) but all cleaned up and painted. I won't bother putting a pic up. So I will probably leave as is and see what size rim I can get on them.
As mentioned I am building this car as a durable 'everyday' car or weekender and want to take it to the track every now and then. So I really need to calm down and work out the safer and reliable options, without compromising too much. I don't think I can go past getting some carbon fibre panels for the front end, just because I can. I do have a budget so I can't go too crazy but to be able to get carbon fibre parts for a car 45-50 years old is unreal and unheard of really, especially living in Australia where certain old cars are rare to even see let alone find parts.
Reading up on aluminium vs steel frames, I think I will go for steel. Thanks badazz81z28 for your advice. There don't seem to be that many advantages to an aluminium frame compared to the side effects... I might look into hydroformed steel frames for these cars.
Kimosabi- composite leafs sound good, but the speed tech torque arm rear suspension looks pretty damn good :)

[F-Body International]

Speedtech, Schwartz, AME and DSE make some nice stuff for aftermarket subframes, full frames and rear suspension that is redesigned but you'll pay for it.

Pro-Touring F-Body has some very nice stuff if you want to upgrade the factory frame and leaf springs. You can have a very high performance leaf spring and factory subframe suspension on a budget! Dave can supply a number of leaf spring designs to choose from, adjustable front/rear sway bars, coil-over front suspension, etc.

Hotchkis is another option if you're just looking for lowered suspension and nice bolt on parts for the factory design. Nothing wrong with keeping it simple there.

[slimjim]

Awesome build, You seem to have a plan similar to mine. I'm building a 68 with all the nice modern features of the 5th Gen, however Im building it in the states so my options are easier.
I even bought some 5th Gen side mirrors however as you feared, they are very big. I still have them brand new in boxes collecting dust on the shelf.
As for my input on your suspension: Speedtech actually provide their Unisteer Rack & Pinion in RHD and so If I ever plan to import and convert my camaro back home to Aus, that's at least a simpler step for the conversion. some food for thought.
If you decide you ever want to look at importing the suspension, wheels or any products really, I'm glad to help out, I've been talking to a lot of the big companies here in the states about expanding to the Aus market.

[camaros down under]

Thanks James, Just read through your build. Very impressive and yes we seem to be on the same page as we'd like to be able to take the cars out for drives on nice windy roads for no reason at all. Maybe it's an Australian thing.
How do you think the Oracle concept side mirrors would look on these cars? They seem a bit thinner but may stick out too far?
I may well need your help in future to import parts. No idea whether certain companies ship to Australia but my importer is happy to help me get parts here too. There is a shop an hour or so away that stocks Forgeline Wheels but resellers aren't always the best people to deal with/ ask questions etc.
I wonder if Anvil ship to Aus. That would be a nice Christmas present to see a heap of their products under the tree.
Anyway I look forward to seeing your build as it commences and maybe see it for real on Australian roads in future

[slimjim]

Thanks James, Just read through your build. Very impressive and yes we seem to be on the same page as we'd like to be able to take the cars out for drives on nice windy roads for no reason at all. Maybe it's an Australian thing.
How do you think the Oracle concept side mirrors would look on these cars? They seem a bit thinner but may stick out too far?
I may well need your help in future to import parts. No idea whether certain companies ship to Australia but my importer is happy to help me get parts here too. There is a shop an hour or so away that stocks Forgeline Wheels but resellers aren't always the best people to deal with/ ask questions etc.
I wonder if Anvil ship to Aus. That would be a nice Christmas present to see a heap of their products under the tree.
Anyway I look forward to seeing your build as it commences and maybe see it for real on Australian roads in future

Haha maybe its partly an aussie thing, but for me also a part.."now the mrs won't complain about a long drive in my loud camaro" luxury.. I hope she appreciates it.
Those Oracle mirrors look awesome, I stumbled across some similar ones 6 months ago for twice the price, but at $500 dollarydoos it's a pricey test.
Someone that stocks forgeline in Aus? that must have been risky and pricey for them if they actually hold stock in a bunch of random sizes, when almost all of them are custom made to for each vehicle. but good to know it's a growing market in Aus.
I plan to be a dealer/ importer for these products for our cars, if it's feasible that is. and all the big brands I've spoken to (boze/speedtech/chassisworks etc) are happy to work with me to get the stuff to Australia.
I'm hoping with the help of AMEP we can get some sort of window into allowing highly modified classic cars legal on our streets for more than a sunday a month.
I'm sure I could get Anvil products to aus, the problem may be it could be the following christmas to what you're expecting, their wait times have been increasing and there have been a lot of unhappy customers, however, many times than not, they're worth the wait.

[camaros down under]

So for people who have carbon fiber panels on their cars, apart from Anvil because they aren't available at the moment, what companies have you bought from? Classic Industries have some, as do Ultra-Carbon which are quite cheap but they don't have a big range. Any other brands?
How has fitment been? How is the quality?
I have a budget, but money aside, should I just go fiber glass for the front panels? Are they strong or do they need re-enforcing? eg: inner fender supports (not sure the technical name)