Total brake noob with questions

[ra11ysport]

Instead of ordering a wilwood brake kit that i cant decide on, Superlite 6r, Billit superlite 6r, Aero6. Can i just piece together and buy the calipers that i will be happy with for years instead buying kit i will replace after i figure out what is really good.

I have 67 Camaro with a updated suspension so now im looking into brakes and its making my eyes bleed!!!!!!!!

I know i want a 14in rotor for 18in wheels i want massive stopping power i ordered a forged superlite 14in kit but i may return if i could build a better system with components bought separately.

[LemonTwisted]

My suggestion is to contact Ron at Ron Sutton - Race Technology (http://www.ronsutton-racetechnology.com/) and tell him what you want to do with your car. He can piece the right brake system together for you based on your car setup and what you want to do with it. His pricing is comparable to the big warehouse stores too.

[ra11ysport]

Wow so much to consider as far price per performance.
I am really leaning towards the front Billiet Superlite 6 and the rear Billet Superlite 4. The calipers are so cheap even with the updated versions i can get four calipers for the price of two Aearo6 calipers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-13235
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-13229

Anyone have any good bad experiences with these calipers?

[Apogee]

In my experience, you can't typically "build a system" from parts and come out cheaper than buying a kit...not to mention, you're then taking all responsibility as to the performance of the kit and compatibility of those components.

Maybe if you share what suspension you're running and how you intend to use the car, we can provide some more pointed suggestions.

[ra11ysport]

Im running a fairly simple suspension.
Hotchkis: Control arms, sway bar, coils, and rear leafs and ridetech spindles.
I will be getting 18s with tire width still to be determined.
I drive alot of winding country roads so i just want to best possible brake i can get.
I dont do any racing or auto x but i still want serious stopping ability.

[ra11ysport]

http://imgur.com/4B9q4gf

[AMC Racer]

Most of Wilwoods street-type kits include narrow-width caliper versions that are powder coated so they look nice and fit stock type suspensions.

Many of their more race-oriented calipers are just hard anodized black, so they are durable, cost less but don't look as nice on your street car. I'd say a FSL4R (20mm pad) is a better race caliper than the equivalent narrow FNSL4R (16mm pad) ... but isn't as pretty.

Assume since you are going 18" wheels and 14" rotors, you're wanting good looks as well as performance, so likely one of the kits would suit your goals.

If you wanted something more cost effective, smaller diameter rotors would do the job.

[ra11ysport]

Most of Wilwoods street-type kits include narrow-width caliper versions that are powder coated so they look nice and fit stock type suspensions.

Many of their more race-oriented calipers are just hard anodized black, so they are durable, cost less but don't look as nice on your street car. I'd say a FSL4R (20mm pad) is a better race caliper than the equivalent narrow FNSL4R (16mm pad) ... but isn't as pretty.

Assume since you are going 18" wheels and 14" rotors, you're wanting good looks as well as performance, so likely one of the kits would suit your goals.

If you wanted something more cost effective, smaller diameter rotors would do the job.

Im now looking at this
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-10920-DR&year=1967&make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&option=Disc+Brake+Spindle

Im more of a function over form but i do want an all black 14in brake kit. I installed some global west solid body mounts to go along with what i have already done. I dont plan to to stop here though cause i think a 4link will be a my winter project. And then next year maybe a speedtech subframe.

[AMC Racer]

Here's the black powdercoated version of the caliper in that kit that has 4.04 sq.in. piston area, better matched to a small bore master or lots of booster assist. $499.95 at Summit.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-13289-bk

Here's a hard anodized version of the Aero6 with 5.4 sq.in piston area for more braking torque (better matched to a larger bore MC). $416.61 at Summit.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-13296

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd.aspx?itemno=120-13296

It isn't available in a standard kit. It also uses the wider 20.3mm pad vs. the 17mm pad for longer pad life ... but since the caliper is wider, it may be tougher to fit (the powder coated ones are only available with 17mm pads ... but you can get the nickel plated ones with Thermlock pistons with 20.3mm if you want the best).
Which do you think would give better braking? Which do you think looks better?

Aero 6 options:
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Aero6

Aero 4 options:
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Aero4

To be honest, if you're not racing, the FSL4R is more than adequate and to me a better front choice than the FSL6R or FNSL6R. Standard GM calipers with upgraded rotors and pads would do for most street applications ... but don't have much street appeal with 18s.

For rotors Wilwood's Spec 37 GT slotted plain rotors are a better performance option than the drilled and slotted black coated ones, but don't look as nice.

If you're not heavy into the calculations, going with a vendor recommended kit is your best option. Choose what suits your taste and budget. Vendors can often help to get more specialized options than what's in the generic kits.

[ra11ysport]

For the fronts minus the pads and mounting hardware its around $858 a side.
I think after all the research iv done i think this is a pretty darn good setup for the money.
What do you think?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-13235
257.72
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-160-8396-bk
305.49
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-170-7467
157.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-270-7037
124.93

[AMC Racer]

What front brakes are you running now?
- master cylinder bore
- brake booster
- pedal ratio
- rotor diameter
- caliper piston diameter

And what do you plan to run with the new setup? Have you tried a better compound pad with your current setup? Pad availability for most GM calipers is pretty good. A Hawk HP+ makes a significant improvement - if you can handle a bit of squeel and dust. A Hawk HPS is a bit more civilized, but doesn't have as much bite.

People with late 60s/early 70s cars often don't understand when they get a kit with FSL6R calipers why their stock single-piston caliper discs worked as good or better. A 6-piston caliper must be better? Right?

Maybe not. The FSL6R only has 4.04 sq.in piston area. Even going to 14" rotors and BP10 pads vs stock replacement pads, you are losing brake torque vs a stock 11" rotor and a 2.75" or 2 15/16" caliper (5.94 sq.in and 6.78 sq.in area respectively). You need to fit a small bore master and increase boost or pedal ratio to match the small area calipers ... or use a caliper with more piston area closer to stock. Sometimes people miss these steps when changing to a smaller piston area caliper. Nothing wrong with the FSL6R - just needs a smaller master to work well.

Now if you can lock up your wheels easily now, maybe you can give up some brake torque for better modulation (but it really says you need better tires to stop quicker). The larger rotors gain more brake torque, but mostly gain more heat capacity and cooling vs stock rotors - good if you were experiencing fade issues in your canyon runs. But inertia wise, the smallest diameter that handles the heat is typically a better performance option.

Just my opinion, but if running a tandem master and sticking with the Superlites, I'd go with a FSL4R with 1.88/1.75" pistons (5.18 sq.in) in front and 1.38/1.38" in back, use a 1" master with booster, an adjustable proportioning valve to rear mounted within easy reach of the driver and smaller rotors... unless you're really set on the 14s.

Also, make sure you check all clearances, brackets, hat, etc if ordering anything not already proven in kit form. Most of the kit pieces are spec'd for the narrow Superlites (16mm) not the wide ones (20mm). Wilwood has dimensions for most of their parts on their site.

Still advise to contact one of the vendors or Wilwood directly for their recommendations. Don't want you to be disappointed if you get something that doesn't fit or doesn't work much better than stock.

[BigbBoomPete]

I am also a noob to this whole performance brakes thing, but have learned alot in the last 10 minutes reading this thread.

I am having the same mind numbing, coma inducing issues to Ra11ysport. :)

[ra11ysport]

I am also a noob to this whole performance brakes thing, but have learned alot in the last 10 minutes reading this thread.

I am having the same mind numbing, coma inducing issues to Ra11ysport. :)

So much to consider cause you dont want to get stuck with a mediocre set of brakes when you could have a better set for a few more $$$$
It gets especially confusing cause outside of the auto X world there is Brembo, AP Racing, Stoptech, Alcon and im sure there are a few more. Then there is the possibility of using CTS-V or ZL1 brembo brakes with either ATS spindles or custom made brackets. Im just not one to settle with just average brakes if i can get the best possible brake for the money thats the goal. Even if im not racing that dosent mean i have to settle with just an average set. Thats what makes this so difficult. There are alot of brembo and AP Racing calipers on ebay!

[ra11ysport]

What front brakes are you running now?
- master cylinder bore
- brake booster
- pedal ratio
- rotor diameter
- caliper piston diameter

And what do you plan to run with the new setup? Have you tried a better compound pad with your current setup? Pad availability for most GM calipers is pretty good. A Hawk HP+ makes a significant improvement - if you can handle a bit of squeel and dust. A Hawk HPS is a bit more civilized, but doesn't have as much bite.

People with late 60s/early 70s cars often don't understand when they get a kit with FSL6R calipers why their stock single-piston caliper discs worked as good or better. A 6-piston caliper must be better? Right?

Maybe not. The FSL6R only has 4.04 sq.in piston area. Even going to 14" rotors and BP10 pads vs stock replacement pads, you are losing brake torque vs a stock 11" rotor and a 2.75" or 2 15/16" caliper (5.94 sq.in and 6.78 sq.in area respectively). You need to fit a small bore master and increase boost or pedal ratio to match the small area calipers ... or use a caliper with more piston area closer to stock. Sometimes people miss these steps when changing to a smaller piston area caliper. Nothing wrong with the FSL6R - just needs a smaller master to work well.

Now if you can lock up your wheels easily now, maybe you can give up some brake torque for better modulation (but it really says you need better tires to stop quicker). The larger rotors gain more brake torque, but mostly gain more heat capacity and cooling vs stock rotors - good if you were experiencing fade issues in your canyon runs. But inertia wise, the smallest diameter that handles the heat is typically a better performance option.

Just my opinion, but if running a tandem master and sticking with the Superlites, I'd go with a FSL4R with 1.88/1.75" pistons (5.18 sq.in) in front and 1.38/1.38" in back, use a 1" master with booster, an adjustable proportioning valve to rear mounted within easy reach of the driver and smaller rotors... unless you're really set on the 14s.

Also, make sure you check all clearances, brackets, hat, etc if ordering anything not already proven in kit form. Most of the kit pieces are spec'd for the narrow Superlites (16mm) not the wide ones (20mm). Wilwood has dimensions for most of their parts on their site.

Still advise to contact one of the vendors or Wilwood directly for their recommendations. Don't want you to be disappointed if you get something that doesn't fit or doesn't work much better than stock.

Im starting out from scratch with my whole brake system from master cyl to pedals to brakes.

[TheJDMan]

I have been very pleased with the performance of my C6 Z06 brakes front and rear. Pad choices are very good and in a pinch one could buy pads at any auto parts store. I think Tobin at Kore3 can tell you all about them.

[ra11ysport]

I have been very pleased with the performance of my C6 Z06 brakes front and rear. Pad choices are very good and in a pinch one could buy pads at any auto parts store. I think Tobin at Kore3 can tell you all about them.

I have been looking at these also what kind of spindle are you running?

[TheJDMan]

I'm running a DSE subframe which use AFX spindles and which is a simple bolt on with these calipers. Tobin at Kore3 would be the person to ask about the fitment issues with C6 Z06 brakes. The bottom line is that the C6 Z06 are a lot of brake for the money

[Decline]

I have '69 Camaro with an Art Morrison front end. Since it has corvette "spindles" I went with a corvette based system.
It is a hybrid kit based on Z51 sized rotors(13.4") I use a stock 11" booster and either a 1"or 15/16" wilwood master(can't recall exactly)with the matching wilwood proportioning valve.
The caliper kit is aero6 Z51 upgrade from wilwood with pads and brackets for $950
My rotors are DBA 5000 two peice that found a killer deal on for $350 for the pair.
I consulted with and purchased the majority of the parts from Tobin at Kore3

I would spend my money on the baddest calipers I could get and worry about rotors 2nd. You could also run stock Z51 rotors for like $50 a piece to save some coin and upgrade to 2 peice later.

Also if you plan to run a speed tech frame at some point in the future a corvette based system would bolt to their ats spindles. That way your not buying twice.

I think I read on here somewhere that Tobin set a guy up with aero6 calipers and brackets for stock spindles and that he was planning an ATS upgrade in the future all he would need are brackets. This kinda sounds similar to your case

For the record I have no affiliation with Kore3 other than being a satisfied customer. I was in the same boat 2 years ago and thought I could do better/save $$ by piecing together my own kit.
At some point you need to call in the professionals tho. Brakes are serious business and not to be taken lightly. Tobin was there to confirm/deny my wild theories and help me choose the right size master and pad type(bp 10)

One more thing. Some believe powder coated calipers "trap heat" in the body. Therefore hard core track guys always go anodized or Nickle. Personally I am kind of blingtastic and went with red to match my stripes. Heat be damned!

[ra11ysport]

I want to thank everyone for chiming in for my future brake setup. Everyone's input is greatly appreciated and will help in my quest for a performance brake for my 67 Camaro.

Its diffidently coming down to the FSL6R and WA6/Aero6 with Wilwood master cyl and pedal assembly.

[AMC Racer]

W6A don't have the bridge support and are a bit flexy. Aero6 are Wilwood's evolution of that design with the heavy bridge support. Stiffer, but not as handy for pad changes.

If you were running smaller diameter rotors and wanted the "best" Wilwood option, the GN6R on the front may be worth a look ... if you had room to fit them and need long pad life (they are wide). No BP10 pad option, but you can get E, Hawk HPS, Hawk HP+, Porterfield R4-S, Carbotech 1521, etc. for street duty.

Anodized, 6 piston, $347 at Summit with same 1.75/1.38/1.38, 5.4sq.in., 20.3mm pads as the big Aero 6. Dual-bolt bridge to add stiffness and for quick pad changes.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wil-120-13947

$20 more than the FNSL6R that comes in most of the kits.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wil-120-11780-rd

Nickel plate with Thermlock pistons $550 at Summit ... pretty good price for a nickel plated, Thermlock, big caliper option. Also available in a 25mm pad version for those endurance races.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wil-120-13949-n

... only $50 more than the non-Thermlock, 17mm pad, powder coated Aero6 and $33 less than the non-Thermlock nickel plated Aero6
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wil-120-13294-rd
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wil-120-13294-n

They are used by some in SCCA TA2 (which has a 12.19" front rotor spec and a limit on cost).
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?wid=3&appid=24

Just remember, if you update the brakes on your street car, it may help avoid the guy in front ... but the guy behind may be more likely to rear-end you :)

[Decline]

OPTION 2:
Heres some brackets that are supposed to work with your spindles for CTS-V brakes

https://www.lsxconcepts.com/product/zl1cts-v-6-piston-brembo-retrofit-caliper-brackets/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwoYi4BRDF_PHHu6rI7NMBEiQAKZ-JuMjF_snVAsjQLmv0z-ES5CvSKDRar-f8NzDDD0qrT-YaAoBz8P8HAQ#.VwKsLPkrLuo

CTS-V calipers with pads

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-12-Cadillac-CTS-V-Brembo-Yellow-6-Piston-Front-Calipers-w-pads-pins-ZL1-/131552833498

Thats Pretty darn cheap for what are essentially Brembo 6 pistons. Its around the same price as the aero6 setup. They guy that developed the brackets is on this forum. Maybe you could PM him
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/113720-Chevrolet-Zl1-CTSV-Brembo-Retrofit-brake-caliper-Brackets/page2?highlight=lsxconcepts

If you read down the LSXconcepts page it looks like they have it pretty figured out. They post links to the wilwood hub you need and to a rotor guy who can make you rotors with the proper bolt pattern for $350 or they can redrill the OEM rotors
https://www.adamsrotors.com/155647/0/0/786/cad-2ctsv-2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v.html

These Brakes are massive 15s and you will need proper wheels for sure.
Steilow was about to use some Forgestars on Jackass with ZR1 brakes before he went with Finspeeds. I think forgestars are only around $1200 which isnt bad for custom rotary forged wheels. Finspeeds are triple that

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=17744&page=61&highlight=jackass

Seems like alot of bang for the buck. If you could ever fade 15" brakes on the street I would like to shake your hand sir!

What are you planning on running for the rear brakes? Which type of axle are you going with?

[ra11ysport]

I went ahead and bought the superlite 6r kit with the 1pc rotor for my budget and time it was my best option.

For the rear i have a 3.73 12 bolt and plan to match the rear with the superlite 4r and be done with it.

Not sure why the pic got rotated!