20's on first gen?

[third base]

Is it possible to tuck 20's in the rear stock fender wells of my 69'? I am still kicking around some ideas and read that it may take some modifications? Is this true? I am thinking about an 18-20 combo at the moment with no tubs.

[yody]

man, why stop at 20's? Just do what this guy did;

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5988

[third base]

I have heard of lifting your vehicle to fit bigger tires, but that is just wrong:slap:.

[yody]

you should of seen the paint job YUCK. You are going to catch some flack for asking about putting 20's on a stock suspended non tubbed first gen here, as that has no performance attributes whatsoever. HOWEVER for some actual answers we need more specs, like your rideheight, tire size you plan, wheel width, etc...

[third base]

hotchkis drop in the rear, 255/35/20 (27.0 x 10.4) in the rear, 215/35/18 (23.9 x 8.5) in the front w/ QA1 coilovers. As for suspension upgrades I just have poly bushings, hotchkis sway bars, frame connectors, and side-a-links. Not too hi-tech. But, a vast improvement from stock.

[indyjps]

yody: thats a real car, i thought it was photochopped
third base, there was a pic of a yellow 69 with 20" ralleys posted around here somewhere recently

[turner69camaro]

I just put 20's on the rear of my stock Pace Car and 18's in the front. No rubbing or anything and they ride great. I didn't even lower the car. I wanted to be able to return it back to stock quick and have the best of both worlds.

[third base]

what about a 20-17 combo? Anybody ever see a first gen with this setup? I know it isn't exactly pro-touring, but I am thinking it would look mean lowered, with a slight rake.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

what about a 20-17 combo? Anybody ever see a first gen with this setup? I know it isn't exactly pro-touring, but I am thinking it would look mean lowered, with a slight rake.


In my opinion that would look absolutely terrible. Too much of a stagger between front to back. How about a much more functional 17/18 combo? 18s look so much better on the back of a first gen, IMO.

Also, 215 is an extrememly narrow tire. You can get atleast a 245 up front with no rubbing whatsoever, a 255 with some slight rubbing, and as big as a 265 or 275 with steering stops.

[third base]

Picked up this photo from intros web site. anybody know who owns this car and/or what size combo he is running? IMO it looks mean. I would like to do something similar without as much lowering. I just want to tuck the tire, not the rim. as for the front tire, your right, a 215 is pretty skinny. how about a 235/40/17 (24.4 x 9.4).

[turner69camaro]

I looked at that car at GoodGuys Columbus and I believe that it had 22's on the rear and they were 12" wide and 18's on the front. The car sported a dash out of a 59 Chevy and I believe the car was from Alabama or Georgia.

[baz67]

IMHO that car looks like what I just flushed. The only time that car moves is on and off of the trailer. You cannot get that low with that large of rims w/o major metal and suspension work.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Contact the member by the name of datsbad. He runs 20's on the rear of almost all of his first gens and every single one of his cars are driven and look awesome. His blue one just had coverage in Popular hot rodding mag. I will be back with pics of it in a minute...

[CAMAROBOY69]

Here are the pics of the blue car... As I stated he has had several 1st gen camaros running 20's and I think they all look absolutely sick!!! :)
Here is the thread the car was located in.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11261
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Travis B]

Picked up this photo from intros web site. anybody know who owns this car and/or what size combo he is running? IMO it looks mean. I would like to do something similar without as much lowering. I just want to tuck the tire, not the rim. as for the front tire, your right, a 215 is pretty skinny. how about a 235/40/17 (24.4 x 9.4).


Scott Whidby camaro.....A customer of ours bought the car! It does in fact have 18's and 22's! Stuffing 22's is not an easy task the wheel openings have to be changed extensively along with the suspension And that car has air ride on it thats why its that low...so it can be aired up or.......... flushed I guess..... :bsjerk:

[Jim Nilsen]

It's kind of odd that when I was looking at the Ferraris,Lambos,Salleen's and some of the other exotics I kept seeing 20's on the rear of them. They had 15" brakes or maybe bigger for all I know but I believe that if you have the bigger brakes you need the room and the performace is a gain or they wouldn't have gone with them. Maybe I keep missing something when I look at the overall package these cars use but if it works for them , why can't it work for us?

I do understand that if you just go with 20's and don't go the larger brake package that there is probably not an advantage in the braking aspect but wouldn't the cornering and straight line traction benefits be there? It would seem the numbers the exotics put out that the 20's work well. It would sure be a shame to give up cornering and straightline performance for the added braking but brakes are the next most important thing to tires and traction and brake fade is a common reason for crashes so maybe it is the trade off that they go with?

Just an observation and not a detailed investigation of what I have been seeing.

Jim Nilsen

[DeepBlue68]

I do understand that if you just go with 20's and don't go the larger brake package that there is probably not an advantage in the braking aspect but wouldn't the cornering and straight line traction benefits be there? It would seem the numbers the exotics put out that the 20's work well.
Are you asking if 20's would provide benefits in traction and cornering regardless of whether you add a bigger brake package?

Keep in mind that the exotic cars are constructed of large amounts of lightweight (read: expensive) materials to offset the effects of larger wheels, far-from-gutted interiors, etc. Undoubtedly those cars would put out better numbers if they were running 17's or 18's (assuming all other aspects of the wheels were the same).

[Rybar]

Is it possible to tuck 20's in the rear stock fender wells of my 69'? I am still kicking around some ideas and read that it may take some modifications? Is this true? I am thinking about an 18-20 combo at the moment with no tubs.

A few local buddies are running 20's on thier stock well cars. if you run a narrower rim/tire combo it will fit. Check my site for pictures.

More pics here: http://groups.msn.com/camarofolder/shoebox.msnw

[ViperBlue68]

Go with the 20s if you want its YOUR car...imho I think it looks pretty sick! I'd probabally go 20s in the back with 19s in the front like prodigy that stagger was pulled off perfectly...btw what happened to Kens body shop? I saw it was torn down...they did finish your car right?

[Steve1968LS2]

Technically anything over a 17" wheel is a performance compromise but who cares.. if you like the "look" then go for it. As stated Jason ran 20's on the back of his with minimal mods (if any).. I personally don't like anything over an 18 on a Camaro. The bigger wheels work better on bigger cars (like some Mopars). It also depends on the wheel.. some designs look bigger than they are and some smaller. Oh, and nothing looks worse than small brakes behind huge wheels IMO..

If you do it just know that it is hurting your performance.. If that is ok with you then great. It is just funny when someone tries to act like thier 20's or 19's are somehow not putting form over function.

How about 19's and 18's? You could still mount up huge ass brakes, look great and perform better than the 20's.. just an idea.. Most of all, do what YOU like :)

[third base]

Go with the 20s if you want its YOUR car...imho I think it looks pretty sick! I'd probabally go 20s in the back with 19s in the front like prodigy that stagger was pulled off perfectly...btw what happened to Kens body shop? I saw it was torn down...they did finish your car right?

Ya they were able to finish before they moved. they are still in marysville just a different location.

As for running the 19/18 combo or even a 19/17 combo. I would love to but the wheels I want are not offeered in a 19.

I realize that I would be murdering the performance of my car but I am not to concerned about that. As long as it is driveable (cruising, normal driving conditions...I know, I know... this is somewhat of "sinful" thinking around here).

Thanks for all of the feedback...what about the 20/17 combo with about a three inch rake. Anybody ever see that combo. I realize some of you hate the raked look, not only because of performance issues but also the look. But I was just wondering if anybody has seen it done. I am curious to see what it looks like.

[kjenn69]

i had 18''s all the way around my car to start with but could not get the car to tuck the rear tires without a massive lowering block,26 inch tall tire versus a 27.5'' tall tire on the rear.if your not going to road race the car go with the 20s ,took me a while to get used to the look,now i wouldnt have 18s on the rear.btw the car of scott whidby has 19s and 22s

[Orngcrush69]

Anything over 18" for a "pro touring" car is just plain wrong...I'm sorry. And the car in the magazine shots, what are those 245's all the way around?! Stop the madness!

[USAZR1]

Ya they were able to finish before they moved. they are still in marysville just a different location.

As for running the 19/18 combo or even a 19/17 combo. I would love to but the wheels I want are not offeered in a 19.

I realize that I would be murdering the performance of my car but I am not to concerned about that. As long as it is driveable (cruising, normal driving conditions...I know, I know... this is somewhat of "sinful" thinking around here).

Thanks for all of the feedback...what about the 20/17 combo with about a three inch rake. Anybody ever see that combo. I realize some of you hate the raked look, not only because of performance issues but also the look. But I was just wondering if anybody has seen it done. I am curious to see what it looks like.

You won't destroy the performance of your car by adding 20's. The difference between 18's and 20's isn't earth-shattering. I switched from 18x10's to 20x10's on the rear of my former 68 El Camino w/GW suspension and could not tell that much of a difference. That car had 17x8's on the front and the wheel diameter difference was very noticeable,looks-wise. Not sure I would ever run more than a 2" wheel diameter difference from front to rear again,though. If you want,I can post a photo.

It's your car so build it like you want,,not to impress others.

[Travis B]

17, 20 does not look the best IMO

Your best bet is 18,20 and 19,22

the 19,22 combo is the only one I like for the 3 in difference not sure why but it just looks good!

[third base]

17, 20 does not look the best IMO

Your best bet is 18,20 and 19,22

the 19,22 combo is the only one I like for the 3 in difference not sure why but it just looks good!

Any pics of a camaro with a 20/17 combo. Maybe to get the right look, and still stay somewhat protouring, I might have to change my rim choice and go with a 19/18 combo(maybe an intro pentia...do they do show discounts...goodguys @ pleasanton)? I am still realy curious how a 20/17 would look though:dunno:.

[yody]

Any pics of a camaro with a 20/17 combo. Maybe to get the right look, and still stay somewhat protouring, I might have to change my rim choice and go with a 19/18 combo(maybe an intro pentia...do they do show discounts...goodguys @ pleasanton)? I am still realy curious how a 20/17 would look though:dunno:.
a 20/17 look, would look nothing short of hideous, and would do the complete exact opposite of keeping it "pro-touring" 19/18 combo is the best option I have seen you list.

[Travis B]

Any pics of a camaro with a 20/17 combo. Maybe to get the right look, and still stay somewhat protouring, I might have to change my rim choice and go with a 19/18 combo(maybe an intro pentia...do they do show discounts...goodguys @ pleasanton)? I am still realy curious how a 20/17 would look though:dunno:.


To get it 17,20 to look anywhere close to right you would have to be tucking alot of the rear wheel, which on a camaro is hard to do, almost impossible with out cutting I would say 18,19 or 18,20 would be your best bet! Sorry no pics of 17,20 combo. I know Intro will make a 19 for you for sure..Pentias are nice wheels we have a set of them at the shop actually!

[TA219]

I like the look of a good wheel & TIRE set up, I just have never liked a big wheel with a rubber band for a tire, If the car has any power at all i would imagine that they have traction problems. Even if it is a cruising car its gonna suck when you try to jump on it real quick and do nothing but spin.

I think a 17/18 combo would look good and personally i dont want anything less then a 275 on the back. Plus it can be done with no tubs !
check out this thread for details
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10840

[LS1Bandit]

I am not into the staggered wheel look, I see many cars going with HUGE wheels on the rear and 18's on the front, looks like crap IMHO. I think a nice set of 4 18's look killer on 1st gens, but i guess it doesn't get the attention like 20's "bling bling"

[slownova]

i did 19s and 22s on my car but be warned its somewhat hard finding a nice tire that matches in 19s and 22s. mine is on a 70 chevelle. some like it, most dont.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/11/111240762-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/10/111241342-1.jpg

[USAZR1]

IMO,that tire & wheel combo looks absolutely killer on your Chevelle,Slow. The car's attitude is just righteous.
You can't please everybody and it is foolish to even try.

[slownova]

oh trust me, i wouldn't care if i was the only one that liked something, that isn't going to stop me from doing it one bit.

[third base]

well, I have made a decision on the rear wheel size:20's. As for the fronts, I am still kicking it around. personally I kind of like the 70's staggered look and doing a 20/17 would give it that look, just with a more modern touch. 20/18 is my last choice mainly because "it's been done" on more than just a couple of cars. Probably my first choice is a 20/19, but the guy i am getting my tires from and helping me with all of the measurements (owner of a local les schwab) is telling me that later on down the road a 19" tire may become hard to match with a 20" in my specs because they are kind of starting to phase out? i am not in the wheel and tire business so I am kind of trusting his word. what do you guys think? I am still kicking the 20/17 around mainly because I have yet to see one with this combo...maybe there is a good reason for that, or maybe a lot of people are afraid of trying it out. I don't know. besides paint color, this is one tuff decision. it will make or break it. :banghead: I may be purchasing my wheels at the good guys car show on the 12th, so i should(?) have a decision by then. thanks for the input.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

well, I have made a decision on the rear wheel size:20's. As for the fronts, I am still kicking it around. personally I kind of like the 70's staggered look and doing a 20/17 would give it that look, just with a more modern touch. 20/18 is my last choice mainly because "it's been done" on more than just a couple of cars. Probably my first choice is a 20/19, but the guy i am getting my tires from and helping me with all of the measurements (owner of a local les schwab) is telling me that later on down the road a 19" tire may become hard to match with a 20" in my specs because they are kind of starting to phase out? i am not in the wheel and tire business so I am kind of trusting his word. what do you guys think? I am still kicking the 20/17 around mainly because I have yet to see one with this combo...maybe there is a good reason for that, or maybe a lot of people are afraid of trying it out. I don't know. besides paint color, this is one tuff decision. it will make or break it. :banghead: I may be purchasing my wheels at the good guys car show on the 12th, so i should(?) have a decision by then. thanks for the input.


All else aside, one thing you may have a problem with is matching the aspect ratios on a 20/17 combo. 245/45/17 has 4.5" of sidewall (A.R.). Most 20" tires are around 3-3.5" of sidewall. It might be something to look into if you're intent on running the 17/20.

[Travis B]

We ahve run a 17/20 cpmbo on street rods but, we run a very small tire up front usually a 215. Ralph is right tho get a very wide tire on a 17 the sidewall will much larger in comparison to the 20 out back! Which IMO does not look good.

[Y-TRY]

IMO- Anything over 18" is anti-performance. Sure, it looks neato on 'Dubs' toy cars, but kinda makes the vehicle look street rod. Nothing Pro or Touring. No matter what you do to the suspension it'll still handle like poop. Might as well put air bags on it.

That is, of course, unless you consider this to be a BMX bike:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Travis B]

IMO- Anything over 18" is anti-performance. Sure, it looks neato on 'Dubs' toy cars, but kinda makes the vehicle look street rod. Nothing Pro or Touring. No matter what you do to the suspension it'll still handle like poop. Might as well put air bags on it.

That is, of course, unless you consider this to be a BMX bike:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So did you have any good input to add to this post or??????? :getout:

[JoshStratton]

Might as well put air bags on it.

I would LOVE to know what your reasoning for this is....sorry to hijack the thread.

[slownova]

IMO- Anything over 18" is anti-performance. Sure, it looks neato on 'Dubs' toy cars, but kinda makes the vehicle look street rod. Nothing Pro or Touring. No matter what you do to the suspension it'll still handle like poop. Might as well put air bags on it.

That is, of course, unless you consider this to be a BMX bike:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
i guess i am anti-performance. however, the global west tubular control arms, b-body spindles, 13.5 wilwood brakes, 1 1/4 sway bar, air-ride shockwaves, and air bags and QA-1 shocks in the rear with over 11.2 contact patch of tire would like to diss agree. i think air-bags are going to be a wave of the future. i have springs with air that i can change the rate of at any point and time. the car handles just as good as my first gen with alot of handling mods and 18s. in fact the car handles better. i guess im Anti-performance however. :3gears:

[Travis B]

i guess i am anti-performance. however, the global west tubular control arms, b-body spindles, 13.5 wilwood brakes, 1 1/4 sway bar, air-ride shockwaves, and air bags and QA-1 shocks in the rear with over 11.2 contact patch of tire would like to diss agree. i think air-bags are going to be a wave of the future. i have springs with air that i can change the rate of at any point and time. the car handles just as good as my first gen with alot of handling mods and 18s. in fact the car handles better. i guess im Anti-performance however. :3gears:

I wouldn't be too concerned Y-try has been on here and lat-g popping off one liners. He has provided nothing to back anything up yet....he'll just keep rambling and no one will listen to him!

There is am article in an upcoming PHr mag that will show that air bags can preform just as good as a regular bolt on car...but them you have the ability to hammer it so it doesn't look like the rest of the cars sitting in the lot.

[Y-TRY]

Dang, man, harsh. I always try to interject humor in my posts, not offend people. And I started off saying "IMO". So, what do I need to bring to the table to back that's it's my opinion? I don't state it as fact, I just state it as my opinion. You're not trying to sell me your car, so you can take it or leave it. My one-liners arte intended to be light-hearted.

But I may be wrong about the air bag suspension thing. I've never seen performance-oriented air bag suspension, but apparently it does exist. My statement is just that it seems a bit like function-following-fashion.

I stand behind the point that tall-tired 17's mixed with short-tired 20's will end up detracting from the handling on a 1st Gen Camaro.

[Travis B]

I stand behind the point that tall-tired 17's mixed with short-tired 20's will end up detracting from the handling on a 1st Gen Camaro.


I am not denying that at all......this has been a well covered subject here. All facts have been made clear that 20's don't perform as well as 18's. The truth is some people are willing to give that extra performance to get an overall look that they are after.

And yes there are performance based air ride suspensions, I doubt air bags will be taking over for track only cars but they do perform just as well as your typical bolt on car.....

I for one do not take the internet seriously so don't think I am like mad or something lol, and if your comments(one liners) were intended to be light hearted then thats great...

[camaro608]

if they dont rub go for it!

[Y-TRY]

I am not denying that at all......this has been a well covered subject here. All facts have been made clear that 20's don't perform as well as 18's. The truth is some people are willing to give that extra performance to get an overall look that they are after.


But I get jumped on for saying that 20's are anti-performance? Not trying to argue it's just that I said the same thing and kinda got berated for it. (is that a word?)

[Travis B]

But I get jumped on for saying that 20's are anti-performance? Not trying to argue it's just that I said the same thing and kinda got berated for it. (is that a word?)


This thread didn't start by saying will 20's out preform 18's....Obviously they won't. And The guy that started the thread just wanted to know if they would fit....We were trying t help the guy and let him know what fits and what to do make it look the best with what he wants...then you come on here saying 20's look street rod and why would you want them they are anti-performance, then you say why don't you just put air bags on it etc etc then post up some worthless picture of a bike. if you didn't have anything to add the post that was positive then why even say anything?

[Y-TRY]

man, why stop at 20's? Just do what this guy did;

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5988



You are going to catch some flack for asking about putting 20's on a stock suspended non tubbed first gen here, as that has no performance attributes whatsoever. HOWEVER for some actual answers we need more specs, like your rideheight, tire size you plan, wheel width, etc...


IMHO that car looks like what I just flushed. The only time that car moves is on and off of the trailer. You cannot get that low with that large of rims w/o major metal and suspension work.


Technically anything over a 17" wheel is a performance compromise but who cares.. if you like the "look" then go for it. As stated Jason ran 20's on the back of his with minimal mods (if any).. I personally don't like anything over an 18 on a Camaro. The bigger wheels work better on bigger cars (like some Mopars). It also depends on the wheel.. some designs look bigger than they are and some smaller. Oh, and nothing looks worse than small brakes behind huge wheels IMO..

If you do it just know that it is hurting your performance.. If that is ok with you then great. It is just funny when someone tries to act like thier 20's or 19's are somehow not putting form over function.

How about 19's and 18's? You could still mount up huge ass brakes, look great and perform better than the 20's.. just an idea.. Most of all, do what YOU like

... do I need to go on? Alot of guys are trying to talk him out of 20's with no more negativity than I interjected, and actually mirroring my thoughts exactly. I'd also tell a friend if they had food in their teeth. Just trying to help. I don't know what your issue is with me, Travis, but whatever. You come out flaming on me for basically repeating 50% of the sentiment of this whole thread. It was just my .02, and it's worth no more or less than yours.

[JoshStratton]

Thats enough. I think his post has been hijacked enough. Lets just let it go before his thread gets closed. He is looking for valuable information and because we try to keep it a friendly environment, this thread is in danger if it goes much further.

Y-Try: just know that we all know Yody so his first post was taken with a light-heart and his 2nd was seeking the information we need to solve his problem. Until we get to know someone, we dont know how to react when they kid around and we arent sure if they are kidding. This is a really great group of car people and Travis is one of the best. Dont worry about it and have a good time...we are all friends here.

Wow...my medication must be working.

[third base]

Just to end this heated topic, I decided to say what the hell and go with the 20/17. No, it will not perform as well but I think it is the look I want to achieve with this car. all of the input was very much appreciated. thank you. as for the mild humor and one liner's thanks for those also. I know everybody has their own opinion and I can respect each and every one. if everybody had the same opinion we would all be driving pro-touring camaros, LOL. I will post pics when available. And will again be open for opinions. :fingersx: thanks again.

[JoshStratton]

Hey Third, I thought of something. Do you know anyone with 20's and someone with 17's? Maybe you could get them together and try them on your car. At least you will see what they look like before you spend the money. I heard Frank from ProdigyCustoms did that and thought it was a good idea. Sometimes people will let you pay for the shipping and they will send you theirs to try out as well. Dunno...something to think about. I hope to do that with my next set of rims.

[USAZR1]

Awright,let's quit acting like a bunch of juveniles. Click on the El Camino link in my sig,scroll down,and click on the 68 El Camino link. There's lot of photos of the car to check out.

[JoshStratton]

I'd like to see that as well.

[parsonsj]

Yes the 20+ subject has been covered here and elsewhere. I think the original poster (third base) understands the tradeoffs now ... and he just wants to know what will fit and what others think of the "look". No need for more edumacation about the horrors of big wheels, at least in this thread.

jp

[68renner]

you wanted to see what a 17 and 20 combo would look like, here you go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-CAMARO-CUSTOM-SHOW-CAMARO-67_W0QQitemZ4588607375QQcategoryZ6161QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

I ran across this today scrolling ebay. I agree with the guys, too much stagger AND too much tire on the front compared to the rear!

[third base]

I agree, too much tire showing in the front , but, my car is drastically lower than that one. I have roughly 3" of clearence between my headers and the ground. I am hoping to tuck as much tire as possible. I want to achieve a slammed/rake look. Thanks for the pic. It is the first I have seen with that combo.

[ViperBlue68]

That doesnt look too horrible on that pic...but I'd prolly still go with 18s or 19s in the front just my .02 cents...those look like the Coys on that car kinda look like KMCs wheels as well tho??? :hmm:

[Y-TRY]

Sorry about that, Third. It sounds like you have a good idea of what you are going for. I hope you were able to gleen some ideas from the suggestions on here. Good luck with the project.

[JoshStratton]

I was looking at some of my Goodguys pics and ran across this:

http://www.jennstratton.com/carstuff/Pictures/2005%20Columbus%20Goodguys/images/gfx_63.jpg

I think it might have even been in the SMOY Top 5.

[Travis B]

19's and 22's

you are correct it was a SMOY contender


I was looking at some of my Goodguys pics and ran across this:

http://www.jennstratton.com/carstuff/Pictures/2005%20Columbus%20Goodguys/images/gfx_63.jpg

I think it might have even been in the SMOY Top 5.

[JoshStratton]

Doh! My bad I thought those looked smaller than that.

[Travis B]

Doh! My bad I thought those looked smaller than that.

It's just that rears look so big...lol

Still 3in of difference front to back though!

[F70t/a]

So that black camaro has 22's? does not look bad at all, I like it :kewlpics:

[JoshStratton]

Yeah I like it too. Maybe we should create a new name for big wheels (other than Pro-Posing), since some of us agree they look cool, but the performance capabilities aren't quite there...Pro-Cruising?

[Travis B]

Iwill agree and say that big wheels hinder performance however the Chicayne proves that even with big wheels a car can still perform....They put it throught the paces at the last air ride challenge and from what I understand everyone was impressed...


Yeah I like it too. Maybe we should create a new name for big wheels (other than Pro-Posing), since some of us agree they look cool, but the performance capabilities aren't quite there...Pro-Cruising?

[Steve1968LS2]

Iwill agree and say that big wheels hinder performance however the Chicayne proves that even with big wheels a car can still perform....They put it throught the paces at the last air ride challenge and from what I understand everyone was impressed...

I heard it did a good impersonation of a lawn mower :icon_razz

[Steve1968LS2]

Yeah I like it too. Maybe we should create a new name for big wheels (other than Pro-Posing), since some of us agree they look cool, but the performance capabilities aren't quite there...Pro-Cruising?

Pose-Touring

Pro-Dubbing

Dub-Touring

Take your pic.. lol..

HEY!! I thought up pro-cruising years ago.. it's MINE!! ;)

[Travis B]

I heard it did a good impersonation of a lawn mower :icon_razz


ya a couple of times I think..... :headbang:
I would love to see that car abused on the track Johnny should have taken a video camera....

[JoshStratton]

...I didnt hear that. Did he lose control and hit the turf?

[Travis B]

...I didnt hear that. Did he lose control and hit the turf?


This is what I heard....they drove it about three different times and on more than one occasion they spun out going around a corner! I also heard they were hazing the tires on the straight aways until they let out of the gas....it threw a blet and blew a pulley of the front runner as well...

Troy wanted to drive the car to the event...the owner said no you better trailer it becuase it is coming home on the trailer......

[JoshStratton]

Hahahah well at least he knew what he wanted to do with it.

[yody]

This is what I heard....they drove it about three different times and on more than one occasion they spun out going around a corner! I also heard they were hazing the tires on the straight aways until they let out of the gas....it threw a blet and blew a pulley of the front runner as well...

Troy wanted to drive the car to the event...the owner said no you better trailer it becuase it is coming home on the trailer......
and any one of these things is supposed to be good?

[third base]

Well, when I am wrong, I am wrong. I went to goodguys this past weekend in pleasanton and met Dave from intro wheels. Fortunatly, he had done a 69" camaro with a 20/17 combo...looked like crap. So, 20/18 it is. Call it whatever you will. Now my only problem is choosing between two wheels, pentia or gt sport(Intros). Thoughts?

[Travis B]

and any one of these things is supposed to be good?


NO just thought it was cool that they were beating on a 250k car.

[Travis B]

Well, when I am wrong, I am wrong. I went to goodguys this past weekend in pleasanton and met Dave from intro wheels. Fortunatly, he had done a 69" camaro with a 20/17 combo...looked like crap. So, 20/18 it is. Call it whatever you will. Now my only problem is choosing between two wheels, pentia or gt sport(Intros). Thoughts?

pentias....the spokes on the GT sports are a little small IMO

[Travis B]

Pose-Touring

Pro-Dubbing

Dub-Touring

Take your pic.. lol..

HEY!! I thought up pro-cruising years ago.. it's MINE!! ;)

I'm going to go with street machine.....I know I know it wasn't on the list but in lighto n the past few years SMOY winners I think that is pretty fitting....

[MarkM66]

I think I may be the original poser! YES!!!!!!!!!! In your faces!!!

Vintage 1999 baby! 18's and 20's on a first gen. Top that!!! :box2:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

They spelled my name wrong. But that was probably a good thing. As I'm sure people were trying to hunt me down and castrate me for such an ungodly act!

[Travis B]

I think I may be the original poser! YES!!!!!!!!!! In your faces!!!

Vintage 1999 baby! 18's and 20's on a first gen. Top that!!! :box2:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

They spelled my name wrong. But that was probably a good thing. As I'm sure people were trying to hunt me down and castrate me for such an ungodly act!


Yes you have won....I knew there was a founder of this whole poser thing????

[MarkM66]

Yes you have won....I knew there was a founder of this whole poser thing????

Yes, I won!

Changing sig! LOL

[TonyL]

faux-touring?

It's what i've been saying all along. Rolls right off the tounge.

Congrats on the title mark. but There was this blue 69 that had 20s back then too.....
I'll see if i can find it.

[MarkM66]

faux-touring?

It's what i've been saying all along. Rolls right off the tounge.

Congrats on the title mark. but There was this blue 69 that had 20s back then too.....
I'll see if i can find it.

Yep faux-touring. Maybe I should ad the too to my sig as being the creator, lol.

Sometimes I use the turm "Pro-Turding" too, lol.

[slownova]

i use to be refured to as Pimp touring on here.

[Travis B]

i use to be refured to as Pimp touring on here.


well thats not all bad if it's true lol I've been called much worse

[calicraig]

I have never seen anyone speak to what the "optimum" or "maximum advisable" weight of a wheel/tire combo would be.


Isn't that the real issue here (other than how they ultimately look)?

The overall diameter or width of the tire doesn't seem to be the issue. That is generally the biggest you can fit and since a 265 is a 265 whether it is 18" or 20",,,,,,

There could be a sidewall issue, but that is not what you hear when somebody says "that size (bigger than 18") will destroy your performance.

I bet there are even 18" combo's that are heavier (and thus worse for performance??) than a well selected 20" combo.

But nobody seems to talk about what the target weight should be. But I bet those Formula 1 guys figure that out...

Am I off base?

Let a brotha' know.

For the record I am looking for 20's that aren't purely Bling Bling,,,but I will never race my convertible. And I agree that some of these wheel combo's are ugly if they show puny brakes or the car is dumped over the top of them.

[baz67]

Calicraig,

This has been discussed before. It has been a while, but if you did some searching I am sure you could did it up. A few months ago Johnny Hunkins wrote his editorial about this very subject.

The glaring pitfall of larger diameter rims for performance is the larger polar moment of inertia. I am sure there are 18s that are heavier than 20s, but not if the material they are made of is the same. A 20" billet Al wheel will outweigh a 18" billet Al wheel everytime and twice on Sunday. A 20" forged Al wheel could weight about the same and a 18" billet Al wheel. I am not sure. It really does not matter. If they weigh the same and have the same tires the 18s will outperform the 20s purely due to the different polar moments between the two.

If you like the look of the 20s then by all means get them. It is not the look that I care for, but that is just me. Just do not think that bigger is better for perfomance in this case.

[Steve1968LS2]

February issue of PHR has a story on Moment Of Inertia.. It's written by Vizard so you know it's good.. touches on flywheels mostly but also discusses wheels.

[Steve1968LS2]

I have never seen anyone speak to what the "optimum" or "maximum advisable" weight of a wheel/tire combo would be.


Isn't that the real issue here (other than how they ultimately look)?

The overall diameter or width of the tire doesn't seem to be the issue. That is generally the biggest you can fit and since a 265 is a 265 whether it is 18" or 20",,,,,,

There could be a sidewall issue, but that is not what you hear when somebody says "that size (bigger than 18") will destroy your performance.

I bet there are even 18" combo's that are heavier (and thus worse for performance??) than a well selected 20" combo.

But nobody seems to talk about what the target weight should be. But I bet those Formula 1 guys figure that out...

Am I off base?

Let a brotha' know.

For the record I am looking for 20's that aren't purely Bling Bling,,,but I will never race my convertible. And I agree that some of these wheel combo's are ugly if they show puny brakes or the car is dumped over the top of them.

It's not the weight of the wheel.. it is how far that weight is from the center of the wheel. As the weight moves away from the hub it's effect is exponential.

It's ok to go with 20's if that is what you like, the important part is to have a firm understanding of the forces involved so that you know what you are compromising from a performance standpoint.

[Garymac69]

I just saw the first picture of a '69 with 20's that looks great, it makes me wish I had chose them vs my 18's. Check out the black '69 in the latest "Chevy Rumble" magazine. Those TT's with grey spokes look so good!

[calicraig]

I also love that sticky with the wheel weights posted,,,,

Food for thought. At least you guys are giving actual technical answers instead of just dismissing that approach as "stoopid". I saw that alot on TEAM CAMARO.

So basically the barrel of the larger (20") rim will account for an expediential increase in rotating mass being farther away from the center would cause the increase strain on braking capability, as well as a "pushing" affect on the suspension set up?

That my friends is some major MOO GOO GUI PAN.... I am full of it...Having a great day hangin' with you guys....

[OneslowZ28]

i would have to say the new vipers have the performance aspects down pretty well. im looking at putting my second gen on a 18/19 combo. now i don't think anyone can say they don't look good with the larger (19") rims. i know we are talking about old school cars with "dubs" but is not the point of pro-tourning to mix old and new?? It always comes down to personal preference you like it, put it on and the hell with everyone else.


As for the rim weight issues.....add more power and the issue is gone :lol:

[Steve1968LS2]

So basically the barrel of the larger (20") rim will account for an expediential increase in rotating mass being farther away from the center would cause the increase strain on braking capability, as well as a "pushing" affect on the suspension set up?
....

Yes.. as the mass moves farther from the center of hte hub it has a greater affect on braking and overall performance.. There is a good story in the Feb issue of PHR on "moment of inertia"..

Puttion on 20's is NOT stupid, it's a choice and so long as you make an informed choice then all the better. The problem comes when people put on 20's (or bigger) and have no idea that this will hurt thier performance. So long as you know the pros and cons then more power to ya :)

[Steve1968LS2]

i would have to say the new vipers have the performance aspects down pretty well. im looking at putting my second gen on a 18/19 combo. now i don't think anyone can say they don't look good with the larger (19") rims. i know we are talking about old school cars with "dubs" but is not the point of pro-tourning to mix old and new?? It always comes down to personal preference you like it, put it on and the hell with everyone else.


As for the rim weight issues.....add more power and the issue is gone :lol:

More power won't make your car stop better.. :) and the point is that even a modern viper would perform better with smaller wheels, it's physics.. They went with 19's cause it looks better and lets face it, most people with new cars are NOT going to take them to the track or car about being a second or two slower on a road track.

Build what you like but know what you are building..

[andrewb70]

It's not the weight of the wheel.. it is how far that weight is from the center of the wheel. As the weight moves away from the hub it's effect is exponential.

Wheel weight is only a small part. The major issue is the tire weight combined with the diameter.

Andrew

[Steve1968LS2]

Wheel weight is only a small part. The major issue is the tire weight combined with the diameter.

Andrew

Well we were talking wheels.. but yes.. all the weight is worse the farther it gets from the hub.. bub.. lol

[hotroddr]

I havent read all the posts here yet but from what I have read I felt compelled to take a stab at the ol polar moment of inertia thing. Your 18" wheel/tire and your 20" wheel/tire could weigh exactly the same but since the 20"er has a bigger diameter, meaning more weight is farther from the center, it will take more force to change its velocity, whether accellerating or braking. Take for example your trusty pneumatic cut off tool. With a new disc in all its 3" glory it spins up slower than the 1" worn out disc you just switched from. same goes for your wheels, it works both ways slowing down and speeding up. Basically Moment of inertia is the ability of a body to resist or store energy that would cause that body to rotate, not by friction, but by weight and its distance from the point that the body rotates about. Correct me if Im wrong here....and if I am thats really scary because I just took a class on this.

That being said. 20" wheels will look killer if done right, but the added diameter will tend to hurt performance in braking and accelleration, and your car will coast longer when you let off the gas while cruising. This probably isnt a concern on a street car because you are concerned about looks not how to beat the other guys lap time.
Hopefully this all made sense...We are not trying to change the subject about whether or not your wheels will fit, we just want you to understand what all will be influenced by this change in wheel diameter

*EDIT-now that I actually have read all posts here, I know that my information was mostly repeat...sorry...I learned my lesson

[andrewb70]

Well we were talking wheels.. but yes.. all the weight is worse the farther it gets from the hub.. bub.. lol

Since you can't really run wheels without tires its probably best to consider them as a package.

Andrew

[Steve1968LS2]

Since you can't really run wheels without tires its probably best to consider them as a package.

Andrew

One could also say that since you can't run one without the other that it sould be obvious about the tires.. :p

[andrewb70]

One could also say that since you can't run one without the other that it sould be obvious about the tires.. :p

It should be obvious, but many times people focus on wheel weight and forget to look at the actual tire weight.

Andrew

[GRider68]

Does any one out there still have any pictures or a link to Scott Whidby's black camaro with 22"?

[robbie9999]

not into camero s but this guy when nuts on the wheels

wondering what kind they are - intro custom wheels v rod 5 ?

[USAZR1]

I think I may be the original poser! YES!!!!!!!!!! In your faces!!!
Vintage 1999 baby! 18's and 20's on a first gen. Top that!!! :box2:

http://home.earthlink.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://home.earthlink.net/~mutert23/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Camaroa.jpg&target=tlx_new

They spelled my name wrong. But that was probably a good thing. As I'm sure people were trying to hunt me down and castrate me for such an ungodly act!

I installed some 18x8 & 20x10 TT II's with Michelin Pilots on my former 68 El Camino in early 1998. Took me four months just to find some rear tires. Click on my sig and scroll down to see some photos of the car that we owned for 32 years. With Global West,Koni, & Hotchkis suspension parts and four wheel Baer brakes,it was a good start to another protouring ride. Unfortunately,my wife suffered a stroke later that year and I ended up having to sell it to pay off some huge medical debts.