Roll Cage/Door Bar Compromise

[MTZ28]

Ok...I know safety and compromise don't go together, but...a little background first.

I'm trying to do multiple things with my car, which leads to doing nothing perfect. I'm trying to build a SAFE car, and from my research, isn't 100% legal for anything. I bought a 10 point cage from Auto Weld Chassis that fits really nice and tight to go into my t-top camaro. Having trouble getting my 6'3" body (long upper torso) in the halo, so I don't even know if I'm going to complete the full cage. I really, really want a full cage because of the t-tops. I live rural, really rural. I will rarely see track time, but I will.

Ill start with my harness bar, and why I want a removable bar. One bar would be used with corbeau lg1's reclining seats for street/autocross. The second could be designed with bracing for the use of a fixed back seat for track use.

My door bar idea might just be a lot of clutter. I haven't seen anyone else do this, but it does seem to be a happy medium. I want to basically copy the tiger cage door bar design for my permanent bars. Then install a removable bar for any track/spirited driving. The two lower permanent bars would be bent out for clearance. The removable upper bar could be a straight bar, the upper disconnect could just be angled out from the main hoop to gain clearance. I would not likely do that for cosmetic reasons, but I was curious if there was any structural reason not too.

All removable bars are using Chris Alston Chassisworks connections. Entire cage is 1 3/4" X .120" DOM. Through the dash a-pillar bars.

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated, I don't want to have to cut/modify my cage at a later day. I want some compromise and a safe car. Possible? I have read every thread out there on this, and concluded that its an individual decision. Everyone is going to have a different risk level of compromise, we just can't leave common sense and responsibility at the door when we leave.

Sorry for the crude drawings. The blue shaded area in the top pic is supposed to be a short piece if tubing to finish the middle bar to the a-pillar bar.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg3_zps61oov1bd-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg3_zps61oov1bd.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg2_zps2dmzkjny-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg2_zps2dmzkjny.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg1_zpswbq9gnd7-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg1_zpswbq9gnd7.jpg.html)

[HandOverFist]

Your questions will be answered better by your sanctioning body and/or rule book...it is they who will make the final decision for approval. Your ideas would not pass NHRA specifications, but road course bodies are often quiet different.

[TheJDMan]

If you build your cage to SCCA or NHRA rules it will be more likely to be accepted anywhere. My only comment is that in order for the cage to be legal in SCCA the two rear down bars must be straight.

[Build-It-Break-It]

In NHRA there's no rules on the rear down bars being straight. There's lots of cars running curved rear down bars that are certified.

http://www.dragzine.com/project-cars/project-biting-the-bullitt/understanding-and-building-an-nhra-8-50-and-10-point-roll-cages/

[HandOverFist]

Your main problem will lie with a removable cross bar...that is considered part of the roll bar/cage and is not permitted. A workaround on the door bars is to make them a swing-out bar which essentially allows their removal. You really need to download a rule book from whatever sanctioning body you intend to run with before diving in as it will save a ton of misery down the road.

[MTZ28]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I fully understand that this is not a 100% legal cage for any sanctioning body. I have read all the different requirements.

I don't think I communicated what my main question was is in my original post.

My main goal is a safe cage. I have looked at hundreds of cars with cages that do not fully comply 100%. Unless they're purpose built cars that do one thing. Most of the roll bar/cage kits that we can buy pre-bent aren't 100% legal. Most come with a removable harness bars, bent rear down bars, cheaper ERW tubing (according to most suppliers I've talked to this makes up 90% of total orders), etc.

This got me wondering if there is some common compromise areas with the different sanctioning bodies. Talk about a loaded question, huh. I know there is no good answer to this, just wondering what your real world experience has showed you guys. I live so far away from a road course track it's not feasible for me to see real world examples or have face to face conversations with experienced people. Maybe I'm making this way too complicated in my own head. I'm not trying to cut corners, just trying to make a multiple purpose cage.

[FiveKai]

i have a ride tech tiger cage installed on my chevelle and i think its awesome.

[MTZ28]

i have a ride tech tiger cage installed on my chevelle and i think its awesome.

I would agree with you, the tiger cage is definitely a quality product. It just didn't meet my needs.

[Bugzilla]

I don't have the best pictures saved on this computer but you can get the idea of what I did to mine. I needed a removable harness bar to get the engine in the car. It was a must. My cage is not certified either. I used something like a clam shell style clamp. I will see if I can post a picture of the clamp as well.

[Bonehead]

The only consideration I had on my current build is the door bars. Thankfully, they are NHRA certified and make getting in and out a whole heck of a lot nicer. Alston swing out kits. Pricey, but I'll be using them again for a future build.

[MTZ28]

I don't have the best pictures saved on this computer but you can get the idea of what I did to mine. I needed a removable harness bar to get the engine in the car. It was a must. My cage is not certified either. I used something like a clam shell style clamp. I will see if I can post a picture of the clamp as well.

Those clam shell style clamps look really nice. Who made yours? I've already installed mine from chassisworks, but I like how yours has a slight bend in the tubing. I love the engine hoist through the window. :twothumbs

[MTZ28]

The only consideration I had on my current build is the door bars. Thankfully, they are NHRA certified and make getting in and out a whole heck of a lot nicer. Alston swing out kits. Pricey, but I'll be using them again for a future build.

I have the alston kit for door and harness bar, I'm very happy with the quality. Did you mount your door bar and disconnects in a linear line?

[MTZ28]

Here's where I'm at now. Still not sure what I'm doing for door bars. Let me know what you guys think of my halo bar, I'm having a hard time getting adequate head clearance. A 14 degree bend helps a lot, but I'm not sure it looks the cleanest.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg3_zpsenxcwx0s-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg3_zpsenxcwx0s.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg4_zpsofbq8jcm-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg4_zpsofbq8jcm.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg6_zpscgvglufc-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg6_zpscgvglufc.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/imagejpg7_zps39victsh-1.jpg (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/clneufeld/media/Camaro/image.jpg7_zps39victsh.jpg.html)

[72BBSwinger]

1st consideration is tubing size. Road racers over 3000lbs need 1.75x.120 DOM tubing.

[72BBSwinger]

Here's a link to my build, I had the same requirements as you except I'm only 6'. https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/94692-Not-exactly-new-but-heres-my-junk/page3

[Doug1]

Here is what I have done with my second gen, T-Top thus far... We will add the Tiger cage, DSE type side bars and may even add a removable bar on the sides at the top but I wanted it to have full use of the T-Tops otherwise. These aren't great pics of the setup but you'll get the jist.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/00902BE679CD42CD94F43498D0680F6D_zpsoue4-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/98A16325891C48B7AF8A701B19C0A80C_zpsma7i-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/73A2CA0E8B064DF5864D19B7B6897AED_zps3nzg-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/80FDAB9FCC374B29ABAA1857468EC590_zpsrgls-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/D3E506644F84451E97E96C1FDE18AB3F_zpsnzv5-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/77BB051CE750477C886B6DF94B3454C8_zpsyy86-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/Roll20bar201_zpsuem8se7a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/92215C02B0A2414D97AD0F755C0CED6E_zpseqor-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/BBA617AFCD094FDF97964DF309C538A7_zpsjw45-1.jpg

[MTZ28]

Here's a link to my build, I had the same requirements as you except I'm only 6'. https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/94692-Not-exactly-new-but-heres-my-junk/page3

Thanks for the link, killer car, love the color. What size sheet metal did you use to "gusset" the cage to the a-pillar? I am using 1.75" X .120" DOM tubing.

[MTZ28]

[QUOTE=Doug1;1180850]Here is what I have done with my second gen, T-Top thus far... We will add the Tiger cage, DSE type side bars and may even add a removable bar on the sides at the top but I wanted it to have full use of the T-Tops otherwise. These aren't great pics of the setup but you'll get the jist.

I actually debated about doing the same thing as you with the two bars running up the middle of the car. But my main goal was to improve the strength of the a-pillar, so I opted to go with the halo.

Your wheels look killer, btw. What motor mounts and tranny cross member are you using? I didn't think we needed to cut our tunnel for the t-56.

[MTZ28]

Thanks for all the replies and pics from everybody, keep them coming.

[72BBSwinger]

16 gauge sheet.

[Bugzilla]

Those clam shell style clamps look really nice. Who made yours? I've already installed mine from chassisworks, but I like how yours has a slight bend in the tubing. I love the engine hoist through the window. :twothumbs

Sorry for the late response. I got mine from CBM Motorsports. They were like $40 each pair.

And ya the engine was a blast to put in. Through the door first (which barely made it through the cage), then the picker though the window. Hope it wont need to come out for a long time.

[nokones]

If I was doing what you are trying to accomplish, I would call a licensed scrutineer for a sanctioned body of a club and run this by him/her to see if that is the safest thing to do. If they say it is not safe, find out why. The standards used by the various sanctioned bodies, such as, SCCA or NASA, etc. are essentially the same. In some cases, it is safer to run without a cage rather than running with an unsafe cage. Unsafe cages can cause more harm than no cage at all, even on the street.

I could be wrong, a pinned bar may not be compliant thus, an unsafe structure.

[MTZ28]

If I was doing what you are trying to accomplish, I would call a licensed scrutineer for a sanctioned body of a club and run this by him/her to see if that is the safest thing to do. If they say it is not safe, find out why. The standards used by the various sanctioned bodies, such as, SCCA or NASA, etc. are essentially the same. In some cases, it is safer to run without a cage rather than running with an unsafe cage. Unsafe cages can cause more harm than no cage at all, even on the street.

I could be wrong, a pinned bar may not be compliant thus, an unsafe structure.

Thanks for the input. I'll do some more research and make some calls.

[MTZ28]

Finally figured what I'm going to do, concentrate on body to tubing clearance. Do a road race style door bars that sort of mimics the tiger cage. Keep my removable harness bar. This will be more than sufficient for anything I want to do. I will accomplish my goal of stiffening and making my t-top a lot safer. Thanks for all your comments.

[Poorhousenext]

Little late on this, but I'm looking at building a cage that is removable and or parts of it are. My main requirements for the removable joints, is not only are they functional but that they be round and same diameter as tubing I'm using as well as being certified by most Sanctioning bodies.

What I found to use are these, by TMR.They make both interlocking and non-interlocking one.


http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=32

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Little late on this, but I'm looking at building a cage that is removable and or parts of it are. My main requirements for the removable joints, is not only are they functional but that they be round and same diameter as tubing I'm using as well as being certified by most Sanctioning bodies.

What I found to use are these, by TMR.They make both interlocking and non-interlocking one.


http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=32

Thanks for posting this link. I have been looking for these for a while.

[MTZ28]

Thanks for posting this link. I have been looking for these for a while.

I second that, TMR offers some great tools/parts.

[bovey]

I second that, TMR offers some great tools/parts.

I don't live far from TMR and have been to a couple open houses at their shop. They were a little confused when a road-racer showed up at their door. Their parts are well crafted and they offer some really smart designs. They also sell bags of weld-on wire tie-downs that are super handy.

[MonzaRacer]

When I helped a friend do a cage we used a grinder he had that ground out roof structure same diameter as upper halo bar, we then put the bar up IN the roof structure, and we tucked the side bars inside the b pillars, our rear cross bar had milled catches from solid bar stock. We used a heavy DOM sleeve, welded a spring latch where the sleeve slides over the catch. Then we used moroso quick pins to hold the sleeve in place. We did door bars similar. All bars were actually married to body structure and honestly the car was even stiffer. I'll see if I can find pics.

[HandOverFist]

'67 El Camino - NHRA legal to 9.99

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/roll20bar20complete20017_zpsz7w7cgv6-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/roll20bar20complete20018_zpsqfvlweyd-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/roll20bar20complete20020_zpszokmbsr4-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/headers2020transmission20008_zpsfyjfbvzl-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/door20glass20003_zpsgl3pegua-1.jpg