2nd gen F body G-Brace install sub frame and body modifications for extreme use

[NOT A TA]

G braces have been around since Herb Adams & his crew were racing 2nd gens back in the early 70's. The basic brace idea itself was/is a good concept which triangulates the front sub frame to the upper cowl. This reduces deflection of the stock sub frame and stiffens up the overall platform so suspension and steering components can do their job better.


The Pro-Touring F-Body Gen II adjustable G-braces shown here evolved from the simple early braces and are a great product. They're a very stout design with a nice adjustable feature that allows them to be easily installed on most 2nd gen F body's. The braces are actually much stronger than the cars they're being installed in and that is the focus of this post. By modifying the points where the forces transferred by the G-braces act on the cowl, upper control arm mounting bolt, upper control arm mount, and sub frame we can make the G braces function even better when the car is pushed to it's limits.


In my opinion G-braces should only be used on cars with solid body mounts as a minimum, and preferably have sub frame connectors also. Doing any of the modifications discussed in this post without solid body mounts is a waste of time and money (even if you think it looks cool). Additionally, if you're not really pushing the limits of the car at auto-X, hill climbs, or on road race tracks it's doubtful the benefits of most of this additional bracing would be noticed. However I do believe the upper control arm bolt support would be a good addition to any car with any type of G-brace that uses the upper control arm cross shaft mounting bolt as the G-brace lower mounting point.


Below's's my list of areas I feel can use a bit of improvement and what I've done. I hope this helps for those who might want to copy what I've done or come up with better ideas. As with most things the evolution will continue.


Also for those wondering, Dave at PTFB has been kept in the loop while I was designing/prototyping all these things. You can expect a new bolt on center upper G-brace to cowl support to be available from PTFB very soon. Top secret at the moment so I can't disclose details but Dave should be announcing soon. Where the ones I made shown below only fit low valve cover Pontiac set ups the PTFB one's will fit multiple applications for those with tall covers, LS engines etc.


1. The upper cowl where G-braces attach is three pieces of sheet metal spot welded together. The G brace mounts are almost centered on the large air openings on the top of the cowl which are the weakest areas. Also the drivers side G brace is in the area of the cowl recessed for the windshield wiper motor allowing more flex in that section of the spot welded ledge the brace is mounted to.


Improvement 1. A strip of 1/8" steel plate above and below ledge creating a sandwich and bolted through the pinch welded area. Stiffens the ledge and spreads the force from the brace over a much wider area. Creates a wider thickness for shear forces transferred through the bolts to act on by doubling (or rmore) the thickness of the ledge. Provides a strong section in the center of the cowl ledge where the top of the cowl is stiffer for the additional centered mount triangulation braces I made that do not come with G-braces. The additional braces also provide lateral support. I used bolts but the sandwich plates could be welded in place.


2. Stock upper control arm mount is made of 3/16" steel. It can flex and those of you who've examined them probably noticed that they've deformed over the years a bit around the forward UCA bolt hole from bumping parking blocks, tightening during alignment, or whatever. If your car's apart put a straight edge on the UCA shaft mounting face and you'll see what I'm talking about. The stock UCA bolts were splined for an interference fit. Often on the cars after many years the interference fit has been widened by movement and the splines don't engage tight any more.


Improvement 2. Weld a piece of 1/8" flat plate to the face of the UCA mount. Most of us with track cars are already running a bunch of shims on the front and rear UCA shaft bolts to get as much positive castor and negative camber as we can. The 1/8" plate eliminates one shim front/rear and eliminates one surface where things could slip/move.. The 1/8" welded plate increases the thickness of the mount to 5/16 which is a 66% increase and stiffens the mount. Additionally it gives a thicker more solid base for larger splined UCA shaft mounting studs/bolts.


3. The stock UCA shaft bolts are 1/2" with a small splined base. Their intended use was to clamp the UCA shaft to the mount and accept forces applied in compression and tension. They were not intended to receive shear forces trying to wiggle and tip the bolt. With G-braces the shear forces applied by the braces are at roughly 90 degrees to the bolt AND the force is not at the base where the splines are but away the thickness of the shims and control arm shaft so leverage is involved increasing the possibility of tipping or wiggling the bolt.


Improvement 3. ARP 1/2" wheel studs with a wide spline base to replace stock UCA shaft bolts. The wide base makes the bolt more stable and spreads force over a bigger area. The spline area is also deeper which combined with the additional thickness provided by the 1/8" plate welded to the mount keeps the bolt more stable. The wheel studs are also longer allowing shims etc. to run a lot of negative camber while still easily double nutting the bolts with grade 8 nuts to prevent loosening. The ARP long studs are stronger and also allow space to utilize an additional support for the stud to transfer force to the frame horns ahead of the UCA mounts.


Additional improvement. Adjustable UCA bolt brace between the front UCA bolt/stud and the frame on roughly the same angle as the main tube of the G-brace.. This support transfers loads from the G-brace to the front frame horns reducing the load on the spline section of the UCA bolt by providing additional support on the other side of the G-brace to help prevent tipping or wiggling of the UCA bolt/stud. I feel this is the most beneficial modification and recommend it to anyone using any style of G braces that use the UCA mounting bolt as the lower attachment point. I'll be making some of these so anyone interested can send me a PM.


Pic below is an overview showing everything mocked up but not yet fully adjusted and tightened. The sub frame will need to come out for paint after other modifications are done. The bolts and nuts are all serrated flange locking fasteners excluding the ARP studs & grade 8 nuts used for the UCA shaft mount. On the cowl, the top of the G-braces are fastened with 7/16" bolts and the other bolts (including the additional upper braces) are all 3/8". The lower supports for the UCA bolts are fastened to the frame with 1/2" serrated flange nuts/bolts.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/005_zpsyyvci1im-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/005_zpsyyvci1im.jpg.html)


Pic below shows the 1/8" thick plate welded to the UCA shaft mounting surface. Note the thickness where the splines of the stud will hold the bolt more securely.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/0042020Copy_zpsqaihegpg-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/004%20-%20Copy_zpsqaihegpg.jpg.html)


Pic below shows the difference between a stock mounting bolt for the UCA shaft and an ARP wheel stud used to replace them. You can see how the wider deeper spline section will support the bolt more rigidly.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/002_zpshozi0tbe-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpshozi0tbe.jpg.html)


Pic below shows how the additional upper supports are attached to the PTFB Gen II adjustable G-braces and the angle of the lower support that is attached to the UCA bolt and sub frame.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/007_zpsqojkvh2v-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpsqojkvh2v.jpg.html)


Pics below show the drivers side lower support. The unused mount on the steering box has to be cut off to provide clearance for the mounting bolt through the frame. I used 1/2" mounting bolts so I'd have a wide surface area which need to be ground down a bit for steering box clearance. Everything's close but fits. Careful marking of where the frame mounting bolt hole needs to be is critical on the drivers side. Passenger side there's plenty of room.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/012_zps0ropnunl-1.jpg
(http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/012_zps0ropnunl.jpg.html)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/002_zpsgrgy5mkp-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpsgrgy5mkp.jpg.html)


Pic below shows all the pieces used for the upgrades described that do not come with a set of PTFB Gen II adjustable G-braces.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/010_zpsnih6odon-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/010_zpsnih6odon.jpg.html)

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Killer info John! But then again, you always do great writeups.

This is something I'll definitely look into, thanks! I'll be getting my underside/subframe blasted hopefully in 2-3 months, so I'll be going through the factory subframe and doing any improvements I can, aside from the usual welding up seams/cleaning welds, etc. I want to look into gusseting/bracing the LCA mounts as well, similar to what later WS6 cars have, to make those points totally rigid as well. One of my LCA mounts is actually completely broken free of all welds on one face, so I'll need to address that.

[badazz81z28]

Pretty cool, seems like that could be an excellent mock up tool to fabricate a solid one piece set-up.

[NOT A TA]

Thanks Josh!

In my build thread there's other modifications I've done to strengthen the frame in certain places like the LCA mounts you mentioned. More important than bracing is to add thickness to the holes in the frame where the LCA mounting bolts go through it because they weren't very good from the start and with today's suspension and sticky tires we can put waaaay more stress on it. I'm using an 81 frame with the factory LCA braces the optioned cars had.

Now that all the frame mods are done I blasted, epoxy primed, and high build primed my sub frame today. You can see how I strengthened the LCA mounts in this pic.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/007_zpstmkhizah-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpstmkhizah.jpg.html)

[FirebirdSteve]

Hey John, what color is that? ;)

[NOT A TA]

The firewall is already car color GM Bright Red. The primer in the subframe LCA mount pic is PPG Epoxy Primer DP 74 red. Dunno if they make it anymore. Had just enough to do the sub frame left in an old can. Shot it with PPG Omni primer after the Epoxy.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/008_zpshdcbzdyw-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/008_zpshdcbzdyw.jpg.html)

[Schroeder]

I too was gonna stiffen the cowl where the braces mounted. Didn't think of the other stuff though. Great write up. Gonna do some of this on mine

[F-Body International]

Pretty cool, seems like that could be an excellent mock up tool to fabricate a solid one piece set-up.

This route would restrict you from being able to apply chassis pre-load.

[rreichert82]

Great write up. I had just posted a question similar asking about subframe modification as I have mine out and getting ready to buy a lot of PTFB parts lol. Thanks for the great info.

[NOT A TA]

Great write up. I had just posted a question similar asking about subframe modification as I have mine out and getting ready to buy a lot of PTFB parts lol. Thanks for the great info.

Check back in your other thread in a little while, I'm writing a post compiling pics of frame mods, etc. and came here to get a link for this thread.

[j-c-c]

I have a bunch of comments. However when in the past on other threads when they become critical, often many get defensive, then personal etc. Once discussion goes off the rails, little positive discussion follows. Not sure if I should dive in. i see a lot of well intentioned effort and thought here. If this is a final product, I'll just bow out, if not and some have an open mind for a different perspective, I'll share.

[NOT A TA]

I have a bunch of comments. However when in the past on other threads when they become critical, often many get defensive, then personal etc. Once discussion goes off the rails, little positive discussion follows. Not sure if I should dive in. i see a lot of well intentioned effort and thought here. If this is a final product, I'll just bow out, if not and some have an open mind for a different perspective, I'll share.

In my original post I wrote "Below's's my list of areas I feel can use a bit of improvement and what I've done. I hope this helps for those who might want to copy what I've done or come up with better ideas. As with most things the evolution will continue. " so feel free to share your thoughts.

[j-c-c]

Ok, lets start with baby steps. Obviously the effort here is to make the best solutions with the OP's situation. And since there can be an explanation for things not always obvious, what is basis for the the curve at the very ends near the firewall of the two outer braces? I would guess the rigidity lost by that single curve is a factor of 10? versus a straight member. Since other members seemed to be tasked with simple compression/tension straight in line loads, why the curve?

PS don't misinterpret any of my succinctness as hostility.

[NOT A TA]

The outer braces that attach to the firewall with the curve are a part of the stock Gen II Pro G- braces. I'm almost positive they need to have the curve to clear the master cylinder/power booster/combination valve on the drivers side and the AC suitcase on the passengers side because the braces are made to fit as many vehicles as possible. Hood hinges and springs are also in that area.There's a wide range of applications when you think of all the possibilities of 70-81 Camaros and Firebirds with various engine and accessory combos. On my particular car with no AC and a manual master cylinder setup it MIGHT be possible to have straight outside side braces, but I haven't mocked up the dual manual masters/balance bar yet so I couldn't be sure. Then there's still the potential for hood hinge/spring interference if trying to run straight tubing.

[j-c-c]

My knowledge of the car is only what i see posted in your pictures above. Me personally, I would be highly motivated to redesign, if necessary, to remove the above curves.

Next concern, where these above curved braces attach at their forward point, they are effectively mid span, not at a node point, seldom a preferred design goal. Is that a worthy/must do compromise on this car?
I probably have 10? more concerns question on my list, some may seem minor, but I would think no many here want to leave any advantages on the table, so I will address them

[NOT A TA]

My knowledge of the car is only what i see posted in your pictures above. Me personally, I would be highly motivated to redesign, if necessary, to remove the above curves.

Next concern, where these above curved braces attach at their forward point, they are effectively mid span, not at a node point, seldom a preferred design goal. Is that a worthy/must do compromise on this car?
I probably have 10? more concerns question on my list, some may seem minor, but I would think no many here want to leave any advantages on the table, so I will address them

Ideally I'd have a fully fabricated tube chassis built by a chassis shop with forward bars from the roll cage through the dash and cowl extending forward of the suspension pick up points to the main frame sections. Anything less requires compromises and each of us has to decide what level of compromises we're willing to live with based on needs, tools, skills, cash, time, and so on. In my particular case I didn't want to run cage tubing through the dash and firewall. Often for many folks, modifications that require metal fabrication tools and equipment such as saws, drill presses, lathes, welders, and other tools determines the limits of the modifications they can/will do. The "business" of automotive aftermarket stuff is primarily based on the "bolt on" market and as such components need to be engineered to fit as many models as possible with as little modification as possible to the vehicle because it's quicker, cheaper and many people have the wish to always be able to return to stock if desired. I have a feeling that the inner fenders would have to be modified to have the outside tubes attach at the UCA bolt point. As an example, although I could fabricate a brace that would function like the GEN II Pro G-Brace it was cheaper to buy them when you figure up the materials and time involved in fabricating then finishing a custom set.

The inner braces I made that attach to the center of the upper cowl would have to go through the engine to be in a straight line with the UCA mounting point instead of the turnbuckle point I used. If/when I install a different engine with taller valve covers I will need to make different supports OR use one of the GEN II cross braces (prototype pic below) with the center triangulation. The PTFB GEN II products have to be made so they can be easily bolted on with minimal tools and equipment and clear BBC, LS, Pontiac, Olds, and other engines combined with fuel injection, carbs, shaker scoops, cowl induction hoods, and other variables so compromises have to be made when designing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/Pro20cowl20brace20001_zpsu0ruyuuc-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/Pro%20cowl%20brace%20001_zpsu0ruyuuc.jpg.html)

[Twentyover]

Have been doing a little thinking about front subframes since this got posted. I’ve got a 70 Camaro w/ a similar subframe, and thinking I’ll follow parts of the trail you blazed. I like the reinforcing you did on the top of the cowl, but I kind of agree w/ some of j-c-c’s comments on location of some of the features.

First, I’m on board on cowl reinforcement. I think that the load distribution leg added generates kind of an indeterminant structure tying in to the center of the straight cowl tube. I wonder if splitting the straight leg and generating a Y rather than a y may have been better since it keeps the loads in tension and compression. Regarding the bends in the lower leg, they are near the end and while I agree they compromise structure, you kinda gotta have a master cylinder. I guess I don’t like the plate flange with the bolt hole at the end of the tube more than I don’t like the bend. This aspect is a reflection on PTFB design, not your modification. I’d have tried to get the bolt plate tied to the tube, or you’re just kind of wigglin’ the flange back and forth as the subframe loads and unloads. I know this will force one to generate one’s own subframe to cowl reinforcements, and is something I may do (I have the earlier PTFB cowl braces.) Anyway, while I think more improvements can be made, I also congratulate you on improvements already complete. I’m also liking the upper control arm munt reinforcement and adjustment bolt deal.

Now to the point of my story or question or whatever this response is… We have a situation with the lack of caster on these cars. I saw in your Car 14 thread you were reinforcing the subframe adding thicker sections to the bolt pass-throughs to reduce flex. My question/comment/evil plan is- why limit yourself to reinforcing the current bolt pass throughs? Could you relocate these pass-throughs on the LCA bolt holes to effectively rotate the control arm around the middle of the bolt centerlines, moving the lower ball joint forward with a factory lower arm? Since it’s blowed apart this much, it seem like a minor change that may yield an improvement.

Anyway, enough about thinking and back to beer drinkin.

[NOT A TA]

Have been doing a little thinking about front subframes since this got posted. I’ve got a 70 Camaro w/ a similar subframe, and thinking I’ll follow parts of the trail you blazed. I like the reinforcing you did on the top of the cowl, but I kind of agree w/ some of j-c-c’s comments on location of some of the features.

First, I’m on board on cowl reinforcement. I think that the load distribution leg added generates kind of an indeterminant structure tying in to the center of the straight cowl tube. I wonder if splitting the straight leg and generating a Y rather than a y may have been better since it keeps the loads in tension and compression. Regarding the bends in the lower leg, they are near the end and while I agree they compromise structure, you kinda gotta have a master cylinder. I guess I don’t like the plate flange with the bolt hole at the end of the tube more than I don’t like the bend. This aspect is a reflection on PTFB design, not your modification. I’d have tried to get the bolt plate tied to the tube, or you’re just kind of wigglin’ the flange back and forth as the subframe loads and unloads. I know this will force one to generate one’s own subframe to cowl reinforcements, and is something I may do (I have the earlier PTFB cowl braces.) Anyway, while I think more improvements can be made, I also congratulate you on improvements already complete. I’m also liking the upper control arm munt reinforcement and adjustment bolt deal.

Now to the point of my story or question or whatever this response is… We have a situation with the lack of caster on these cars. I saw in your Car 14 thread you were reinforcing the subframe adding thicker sections to the bolt pass-throughs to reduce flex. My question/comment/evil plan is- why limit yourself to reinforcing the current bolt pass throughs? Could you relocate these pass-throughs on the LCA bolt holes to effectively rotate the control arm around the middle of the bolt centerlines, moving the lower ball joint forward with a factory lower arm? Since it’s blowed apart this much, it seem like a minor change that may yield an improvement.

Anyway, enough about thinking and back to beer drinkin.

Hey Greg, sorry I missed your post above a couple months ago. I like your concept of a Y shaped G-brace (which is why I made the center cowl mount supports for mine) and agree with you on the lower arm mounting flange on the curved tube. I may weld a triangulation piece to the flange my G-braces.

As far as the lack of desirable castor on the 2nd gens, I'd considered moving the UCA and/or LCA mounting points. Then I reminded myself that I'm not a suspension engineer and that although I was mocking everything up and fabricating sub frame stiffening/support pieces using stock control arms I intended to swap to the PTFB tubular arms with tall upper ball joints that allow more castor and - camber. So I fabricated things using the stock pick up points.

Dave and I have been in contact for many years and while I was working on all the sub frame reinforcement things he made an offer I couldn't refuse so now PTFB GEN II is sponsoring "The 14 Car". So while I thought I'd have to wait until after I got the car finished and could then save up for the rest of the PTFB pieces I wanted I've now got a set of their new upper control arms with tall ball joints and expect delivery of one of the new high clearance front sway bars as soon as they're back from powder coating. Dave's giving up guaranteed sales to me but hopefully I'll give the products enough testing and exposure to generate increased sales. I'll be installing my sub frame back into the car very soon for some deflection testing of the sub frame with/without G-braces using my modified sub frame. If I can find someone with a stock sub frame here in S. Florida I can borrow I'll also test stock vs. modified sub frame.

With all that said, I had enough interest in the weld on pieces and adjustable UCA bolt support to start making and selling them. This saves folks time and/or money compared with sourcing the different materials and hardware themselves then spending time fabricating or having a shop do it. There's a lot of who folks who want or need better than stock but aren't going to spend several thousand for an aftermarket sub frame. Being able to get all these pieces already fabricated from one place with one shipping charge can save a lot of time/money. Anyone interested can PM me.

1st up are pieces to weld in that replace the Rivnuts for the front sway bar brackets. Steel plate thicker than the original frame material with grade 8 nuts welded to the backside. The steel plate is threaded inline with the nuts and the back side is coated with zinc weld through primer. Socket head bolt hardware included to ease installation with fat sway bars. A few weld beads around the sides and plug weld the hole.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/20160531_174322_zpsz3brzor8-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/mods%20and%20fab%20stuff/20160531_174322_zpsz3brzor8.jpg.html)

Next are upper control arm mount reinforcement plates.1/8" steel plate contoured to the curve in the UCA mount. Can be used with stock UCA cross shaft hardware or with oversized spline section hardware. Hardware for locating the pieces during welding is included. Several weld beads around the edges then be sure to grind flat any bead that might keep the upper control arm cross shaft from sitting flat.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/007_zpsbwwmyoh8-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/mods%20and%20fab%20stuff/007_zpsbwwmyoh8.jpg.html)

Below are reinforcement plates that get welded to the underside of the cowl area body mounts on the frame. A few welds around the edges and plug weld the small hole.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/005_zpskzyhwudr-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/mods%20and%20fab%20stuff/005_zpskzyhwudr.jpg.html)

Pic below shows adjustable support braces for the upper control arm cross shaft forward bolts to be used with G-braces.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/015_zpssx94h6fj-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/mods%20and%20fab%20stuff/015_zpssx94h6fj.jpg.html)

Lower control arm mount reinforcement kit with a combination of modified thick and grade 8 washers to weld to the frame where the LCA bolts pass through.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/003_zpsrxkguwht-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/mods%20and%20fab%20stuff/003_zpsrxkguwht.jpg.html)

[rreichert82]

John

I got all of the parts I got from you welded in place. I had a friend of mine do most of the welding as I will not win many beauty award with my lack of skill. I also have the new upper coil over conversion brackets from Dave at PTFB welded in. I am hoping to get the welding that I did on the seams cleaned up and painted this weekend. I am still waiting on the last two little parts from Dave that mount the coil over to the new brackets. Hopefully they will come in soon and I can get this whole puppy painted and assembled. I really appreciate all the wisdom you have shared in this wright up and the great parts kits you sold me. Vey easy to deal with and great support. I will try to get some pictures uploaded.

[NOT A TA]

John

I got all of the parts I got from you welded in place. I had a friend of mine do most of the welding as I will not win many beauty award with my lack of skill. I also have the new upper coil over conversion brackets from Dave at PTFB welded in. I am hoping to get the welding that I did on the seams cleaned up and painted this weekend. I am still waiting on the last two little parts from Dave that mount the coil over to the new brackets. Hopefully they will come in soon and I can get this whole puppy painted and assembled. I really appreciate all the wisdom you have shared in this wright up and the great parts kits you sold me. Vey easy to deal with and great support. I will try to get some pictures uploaded.

Thanks! Dave said your parts should be on the way soon. Pics would be great!

[rreichert82]

I seem to always have issues uploading pictures from the computer or android app lol. One of these days it might work.

[woody80z28]

I like that uca brace idea. I'm going to do something similar. I did the 1/8 flat bar on my cowl a while back and that brace will be a nice way to strengthen the other mounting point. I need to get the engine back in and mock up a lca brace too. The stock one doesn't clear the headers.

[cpd004]

John

I got all of the parts I got from you welded in place. I had a friend of mine do most of the welding as I will not win many beauty award with my lack of skill. I also have the new upper coil over conversion brackets from Dave at PTFB welded in. I am hoping to get the welding that I did on the seams cleaned up and painted this weekend. I am still waiting on the last two little parts from Dave that mount the coil over to the new brackets. Hopefully they will come in soon and I can get this whole puppy painted and assembled. I really appreciate all the wisdom you have shared in this wright up and the great parts kits you sold me. Vey easy to deal with and great support. I will try to get some pictures uploaded.

Did you ever get around to taking any pics?

[76TA]

John,

Do you happen to know if the G-Braces from PTFB would fit a 2nd Gen with an LS7?

To further complicate things my car has a Detroit Speed Front Sub frame.


Thank you,
Andrew

[ULTM8Z]

I'm running the Alston Y-braces and they are every bit as an improvement as people claim.

One thing to note though (probably more for street cars), as a direct metal connection between the suspension mounting location to the metal frame of the cabin, they will transmit noise very well from the suspension system into the cabin. So if you have a squeaky a-arm bushing that you didn't hear before, you're GOING to hear it after you install these braces.

Some people may not care about stuff like that.

I've gone out of my way to eliminate squeaks and rattles and these braces forced me to go back and ensure that all suspension bushings and stuff are well lubricated.

[woody80z28]

I did end up getting this stuff from John and like how it came out. Pics in my thread
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/16661-It-lives!-The-motor-is-done-for-now/page7

I would expect the g-braces to fit an LS and DSE subframe no problem.

[76TA]

I did end up getting this stuff from John and like how it came out. Pics in my threadhttps://www.pro-touring.com/threads/16661-It-lives!-The-motor-is-done-for-now/page7

I would expect the g-braces to fit an LS and DSE subframe no problem.

That's an awesome build man. I've actually read your thread a few times even before this thread.

But back on topic. The DSE front sub frame's upper control arm bolts are in a slightly different location and are flipped. I think I might just buy a pair and use them as a general guide, make my own and then sell them.

Most guys running the kind of power and set up I am have 10 point cages and simply run dime bars that run from the frame through the firewall/dash to the A-pillar loop but I'm not interested in that.

My car has a 8 point cage and there's no way I'm venturing in to a 10 point.

[woody80z28]

Hmm, didn't know that. I knew their arms had inserts to adjust caster but didn't know the frame changed the location.

I doubt you would need a set in hand to fab something similar. I can shoot you any pics you need and you could mock up the shape etc with brake line. Hell I used a cardboard template to have some tubing bent for my frame horns.