Hooker 1st-gen F-body/3rd-gen X-body headers and exhaust systems

[Toddoky]

I'm creating this thread due to a request I received from another member the other day to do so. As the title suggests, I will be using this location as a depository for photos and information related to all the new 1st-gen F-body and 3rd-gen X-body headers and exhaust systems Hooker has released over the last few years. Much of these products came about as part of our LS swap system development efforts and some of it came afterwards as compatible products for older SB Chevy engine applications in the same cars.

The specific product I was asked about were newer SB headers for 1st-gen F-bodies that had the same high-tuck ground clearance as our new LS swap headers do, so I will start this thread with some photos for those applications and build from there. There will be quite a few products I will cover in this thread and will have many photos to post, so this will be an on-going effort that will probably take a couple of weeks to get everything posted up.

If you have questions along the way, I will be happy to answer them.

Here are the photos of the newer Hooker SB headers for 1st-gen F-body/3rd-gen X-body applications; the silver painted parts shown are the prototypes installed in the car to depict clearances and the other photos depict the same headers in the premium stainless steel variant they are available in (you can also get them in more-affordable mild steel form):


https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121936&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121937&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121938&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121939&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121940&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121941&stc=1https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121942&stc=1

These headers are available with 1-5/8", 1-3/4" and 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" stepped primaries and with standard port or D-port configured flanges. They feature flat finished TIG welded flanges and include O2 sensor bungs located in the collectors for those running EFI or wanting to tune with wide-band O2 sensors...be sure to take note of the generous steering box clearance. The stainless steel versions of the headers use the same formed merge collectors and investment cast collector spears that we use on our LS swap and Blackheart header applications.I will post up more photos on Monday...I can't figure out why the photos double-posted.

[rchaskin]

Oh wow.....:drool:

So the D port version will fit aluminum fastburn heads?

Ground clearance is awesome!!!

[Toddoky]

Oh wow.....:drool:

So the D port version will fit aluminum fastburn heads?

Ground clearance is awesome!!!

Yes, they will fit the Fastburn heads.

[TheJDMan]

These are exactly what I have been looking for. Do you have a part number for the 1 3/4" D port version please?

[Toddoky]

Sure, what version are you interested in, the stainless steel? If so, the part number would be 2107-7HKR. Don't get worried about any photo you see in a listing for the stainless headers not looking like the photos I posted...the photos for the mild steel versions got used on all of them and I'm working on correcting that over the next few weeks.

[TheJDMan]

Thanks for the PN! So the pics above are the mild steel ceramic version?

[Toddoky]

The silver painted ones installed on the car are mild steel, the shiney ones attached to
the engine on the stand are the stainless steel version of the headers. The pictures for the stainless headers on the Holley website, and other sites, will depict the mild steel headers as photos of the stainless headers have not existed to this point. I'm working on fixing that issue.

[MIGHTY MIKE B.]

I have been looking for headers for my 68 Camaro to replace the old ones. I have hopes that these will work. 406 sbc, dart iron eagle angled plugs heads, tremec tko 600 stock z-bar clutch linkage, and a steroid rack and pinion steering. I would be interested in the ceramic coated headers.

[Toddoky]

I don't know how compatible they would be with your steering rack Mike, but they would be compatible with the rest of your combination. Do the Iron Eagle heads feature stock port shapes? If you can tell me that and whether you want 1-5/8" or 1-3/4" primaries, I can tell you what part number you'll need to order.

[MIGHTY MIKE B.]

The Dart Heads have square port and the recommended gasket is fel-pro 1405 and 1404. Not sure on the size of the primaries yet, but thinking more towards the 1-3/4. Thank you.

[MIGHTY MIKE B.]

The web site for the Steeroids rack lists Hooker #2451-1 full length fitting with no problem but will not work with angled plugs, and hooker supercomp not fitting. Hope this might help with rack compatibility.

[Toddoky]

The 2451 headers have been sold by Hooker for more than 30 years and although they may clear your steering rack, they come nowhere close to providing the component/ground clearance and level of build detail that the new Hooker SB headers do that I'm referring to I this thread. The new headers feature flat-finished TIG welded flanges compared to the raised weld bead MIG method of construction used by Hooker headers of the past. You'll want to research part numbers 2104-1HKR and 2105-1HKR to get applicable information on the new headers.

[TheJDMan]

I hate to be a pain, but do you have any pictures of the actual port shape between the 2105-HKR and 2107-HKR? The web site seems to show the same port shape for both headers so I suspect that is just a generic port pic that they posted for both headers. After looking at my RHS head ports, I'm thinking I may need the square port 2105-HKR.

[Toddoky]

No problem, I can post up something for you tomorrow...you are correct, the detail photos shown on the website right now all depict the stock port header flanges.

[Toddoky]

Here's the geometry dimensions for both flanges...you should be able to use this data to determine which design best suits your cylinder heads.122109

[TheJDMan]

Perfect, thanks!

[TheJDMan]

I know Hooker PN 2238HKR has been discontinued for years, but I assume that the build specs for these headers still exist within the company. Is there any possibility that Hooker would accept a custom order for the 2238HKR with a 3/8" flange and ceramic coating? I know it's a long shot, but it costs nothing to ask.

[Toddoky]

I know Hooker PN 2238HKR has been discontinued for years, but I assume that the build specs for these headers still exist within the company. Is there any possibility that Hooker would accept a custom order for the 2238HKR with a 3/8" flange and ceramic coating? I know it's a long shot, but it costs nothing to ask.

I'm not familiar with that part number, but if it has been discontinued for years the welding fixtures would be long-gone and disposed of by now. Hooker doesn't offer custom order/build options, so it wouldn't have helped you any if the fixtures still existed. You're right, it costs nothing to ask.

[TheJDMan]

Does the exhaust system for these headers look the same as the one pictured for the 2nd Gen Camaro in the other thread? Any pics of the 1st Gen Camaro exhaust system?

[Toddoky]

They share design and fitment characteristics, but have obvious differences in their tube bend geometries...I'll dig up some photos next week for you.

[TheJDMan]

I was looking at the pics again and I noticed that the clutch Z-Bar was not installed in the Camaro. I assume you have verified that there is room for it?

[Toddoky]

I was looking at the pics again and I noticed that the clutch Z-Bar was not installed in the Camaro. I assume you have verified that there is room for it?

Yes, they are completely compatible with the Z-bar linkage and return spring. They are not compatible with the factory back-drive linkage however, so you'll have to customize/modify that to retain its operation, or remove it...that was the cost for obtaining the ground clearance present in the headers.

[TheJDMan]

Yes, they are completely compatible with the Z-bar linkage and return spring. They are not compatible with the factory back-drive linkage however, so you'll have to customize/modify that to retain its operation, or remove it...that was the cost for obtaining the ground clearance present in the headers.

Back-drive linkage? Sorry, I have owned a 1st gen Camaro for 43 years and I have never heard that term. Please explain.

[Toddoky]

Back-drive linkage? Sorry, I have owned a 1st gen Camaro for 43 years and I have never heard that term. Please explain.

I guess the more common term for it is "reverse lockout linkage". It is the linkage the locks the steering column and allows you to remove your key from the column also controls the back-up lamps; the parts listings I've seen show it as only being used on 69-72 model year Camaros, but I'm not certain whether it was used on the 67 or 68 cars or not.

[TheJDMan]

Yeah, 67 and 68 ignition switch is on the dash so there was no reverse lockout mechanism. That first appeared in 69 when the switch was moved to the steering column. Thanks for clearing that up!

[dontlifttoshift]

Sooooo, was there going to be a DSE quadralink compatible exhaust kit for 1st gens?

[Toddoky]

Sooooo, was there going to be a DSE quadralink compatible exhaust kit for 1st gens?

I believe that is something that is slated to happen over the next few months.

[paulk68]

how about the ridtech 4 link?

[Toddoky]

how about the ridtech 4 link?

There's nothing in the works that would be compatible with that system that I'm aware of.

[TheJDMan]

Does the exhaust system for these headers look the same as the one pictured for the 2nd Gen Camaro in the other thread? Any pics of the 1st Gen Camaro exhaust system?

I ordered a pair of 2105-7HKR through Summit but I'm still curious about the 1st Gen exhaust.

[Tim john---]

I recently purchased and "mocked up" a set of the # 70201306 RHKR mid length headers in stainless steel to compliment the installed Holley/Hooker engine mounts, application is a 69 Firebird w/ LS-1 GTO engine and the fit is perfect, very pleased. The welds are very nice, excellent flange thickness and excellent steering gear box & ground clearance. Thank You Todd for recommending them.

Tim john---

[Toddoky]

I recently purchased and "mocked up" a set of the # 70201306 RHKR mid length headers in stainless steel to compliment the installed Holley/Hooker engine mounts, application is a 69 Firebird w/ LS-1 GTO engine and the fit is perfect, very pleased. The welds are very nice, excellent flange thickness and excellent steering gear box & ground clearance. Thank You Todd for recommending them.

Tim john---

Thanks for chiming in Tim. If you can find the time, please post up a couple of photos of your headers installed on your car as it really helps others who may be looking for a set of headers.

Thanks,

Todd

[ilikeike]

I've been searching,but can't really find anyone with the new SBC hookers,other than the first page post here.

My 2131 supercomps are nowhere near fitting my new engine on the drivers side.
Major interference at the pitman arm/nut, steering box,rag joint.
slight interference at passenger side idler @ full left.

Will the new Hooker SBC headers fit without the hammer method ?
I still read issues with Doug's and the Dynatechs here and there also with raised port heads and parts of the steering system.
Not really wanting to go Lemons just yet,but may have to.$$$

SBC with AFR 210 heads,5spd,Z-bar,pwr st, No A/C.

[Toddoky]

I've been searching,but can't really find anyone with the new SBC hookers,other than the first page post here.

My 2131 supercomps are nowhere near fitting my new engine on the drivers side.
Major interference at the pitman arm/nut, steering box,rag joint.
slight interference at passenger side idler @ full left.

Will the new Hooker SBC headers fit without the hammer method ?
I still read issues with Doug's and the Dynatechs here and there also with raised port heads and parts of the steering system.
Not really wanting to go Lemons just yet,but may have to.$$$

SBC with AFR 210 heads,5spd,Z-bar,pwr st, No A/C.

The new Hooker 1st-gen headers are a completely different animal than all the older Hooker applications for your car...they don't have interference at any of the locations you've mentioned. User neilb over on Camaros.net has them on his 1st-gen, so you could send him a PM for first-hand feedback if you're a member over there.

[TheJDMan]

I thought I would post an update to this thread now that I have the new Hookers installed. Sorry for the delay but it has taken nearly 6 weeks to get these delivered. This new Hooker 1st Gen Camaro header is a completely new design from the tired old header that Hooker sold for the past 40 odd years. I removed my dynatech headers and installed the new Hookers and I can tell you, based on first hand experience now, that these new headers work perfectly with a DSE sub frame and gain an extra 1" of ground clearance. Here are some installed pics of the new Hooker 2105-7HKR. The only installation issue I had was the #5 cyl header bolt is a tight fit and needs to be started first. A slightly slotted hole in the flange at that location would help installation a lot.

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[Toddoky]

I thought I would post an update to this thread now that I have the new Hookers installed. Sorry for the delay but it has taken nearly 6 weeks to get these delivered. This new Hooker 1st Gen Camaro header is a completely new design from the tired old header that Hooker sold for the past 40 odd years. I removed my dynatech headers and installed the new Hookers and I can tell you, based on first hand experience now, that these new headers work perfectly with a DSE subframe and gain about 1" ground clearance. Here are a couple of before and after pics the first is the dynatech header and the second is the new Hooker 2105-7HKR. The only installation issue I had was the #5 cyl header bolt is a tight fit and needs to be started first. A slightly slotted hole in the flange at that location would help installation a lot.

Dynatech headers
128023

Hooker 2105-7HKR headers
128024
I'm really glad to hear that worked out well for you and allowed you to gain the extra ground clearance...can you post some photos of the clearance between the driver side header and the steering shaft.

[camrat68]

Are there any plans to do the same thing as far as ground clearance for those of us running big block engines in our first gens? I ran 2205-1HKR Super Comps for years until I needed to go lower.

Jim

[Toddoky]

Are there any plans to do the same thing as far as ground clearance for those of us running big block engines in our first gens? I ran 2205-1HKR Super Comps for years until I needed to go lower.

Jim

There's nothing on the development schedule at this time.

[TheJDMan]

I'm really glad to hear that worked out well for you and allowed you to gain the extra ground clearance...can you post some photos of the clearance between the driver side header and the steering shaft.

I will get some pics next time I get the car down off the lift probably in the next day or two. But I can tell you that the DS header could not fit the steering shaft better if it had been designed for the DSE steering rack. There is at least 1" clearance at the closest point.

[Toddoky]

I will get some pics next time I get the car down off the lift probably in the next day or two. But I can tell you that the DS header could not fit the steering shaft better if it had been designed for the DSE steering rack. There is at least 1" clearance at the closest point.

That's great. Does the DSE subframe accept the factory frame stands,and if so, which ones are you using (short/wide or tall/narrow)?

[TheJDMan]

That's great. Does the DSE subframe accept the factory frame stands,and if so, which ones are you using (short/wide or tall/narrow)?

Not sure which frame stands, I removed the factory frame stands from the factory sub frame and bolted them on the DSE sub. This was a factory 327 car. BTW, here are the pics of the DS header. The first is from underneath with the car on the lift looking up between the LCA pivots. The second is shot from just in front of the brake MC. It is hard to see from the angles but there is at least 3/4" at the closest point and the lower U-Joint

128051

128052

[Toddoky]

Not sure which frame stands, I removed the factory frame stands from the factory sub frame and bolted them on the DSE sub. This was a factory 327 car. BTW, here are the pics of the DS header. The first is from underneath with the car on the lift looking up between the LCA pivots. The second is shot from just in front of the brake MC. It is hard to see from the angles but there is at least 3/4" at the closest point and the lower U-Joint

128051

128052
Looks like a good fit in your car Steve...I sent you PM about your set-up.

[camrat68]

There's nothing in the works that would be compatible with that system that I'm aware of.

Well if you change your minds in the next few years and can give good ground clearance as well as clearance for a Tru-Turn set-up, I'll ditch my Lemon's for another set of Super Comps!

Jim

[TheJDMan]

Todd,
The forum software does not allow me to attach pics from my computer in the message system. I thought some here might be interested so here are some other shots of the header fit in the DSE subframe.

128086

128087

128089

128090

128091

128092

128093

[Toddoky]

I will make a note of that and pass it along to Product Management Jim.

[Toddoky]

They look nice and tidy in there Steve...is there any place on either header that gets close to touching the subframe?

[TheJDMan]

Todd,
The closest any primary tube comes is on the PS LCA rear mount as shown in the third pic from the top. That gap is about 1/2" or just not quite able to get my finger in there. IMO, they fit the DSE sub about as perfect as you could want.

[budweasel]

I too am interested in any developments for the big block header design. Header options for lowered, big block first gens is really weak.

[Dave95Z28]

Has anyone tried the headers in a 1st Gen Camaro Speedtech Subframe yet?

Dave

[gr868]

has anyone installed these headers with vortech heads? and power steering i need ground clearance!!!

[Toddoky]

In case you are still looking for an answer, here's a photo showing the clearance of the prototype header with the power steering box; the headers work great with the stock manual or PS box. The stock-port version of the headers is fully compatible with the stock GM Vortec head exhaust port geometry and the tube bend geometry was also optimized to account for the unique spark plug angles used on the Vortec heads. The one limitation you will have to accept however is the brand of spark plugs you choose to use...the insulators of A/C Delco plugs are typically the longest of any available plugs and too long to use with these headers without experiencing interference between the spark plug boots and the header tubes. 150379

[1967camarors]

Any photos of new hooker big block headers (1rst gen Camaro)? I have a set of vintage Hooker Super Competition # 2111 headers and they hang too low (particularly the driver's side) I'd like more ground clearance. I am using the correct BBC motor mount brackets.

[Toddoky]

Any photos of new hooker big block headers (1rst gen Camaro)? I have a set of vintage Hooker Super Competition # 2111 headers and they hang too low (particularly the driver's side) I'd like more ground clearance. I am using the correct BBC motor mount brackets.
We've not invested any time or effort on designing new BB Chevy headers to date, but it's something that may get some attention later this year.

[DarkoNova]

Does anyone have pictures of the spark plugs with wires on the driver's side? Kinda like the ones in the original post.

I have flowtech headers right now on the Nova and cylinders 5 and 6, the boots are touching the primaries and slowly melting away.

They're also mangled underneath because they hang so low.

So if there's clearance for the spark plugs with these (straight plug heads) and they tuck up better underneath, I might have to buy some.

[Toddoky]

Here's one photo I have of the driver side header assembly with spark plugs/wires installed. The headers shown are the stainless steel version. Never mind, I see I already posted this photo previously. I checked for other images and couldn't find any in my files unfortunately.153516

[DarkoNova]

Dang, I just noticed the plugs in that picture are angled.

Is that engine still on the stand? Doubtful, but if it is, would you be able to see how much clearance is between the #5 primary and the plug wire?

[Toddoky]

Dang, I just noticed the plugs in that picture are angled.

Is that engine still on the stand? Doubtful, but if it is, would you be able to see how much clearance is between the #5 primary and the plug wire?

That particular image was provided to me by a user of the headers and so was not taken on an engine that was present here at Holley. There is plenty of clearance between the plugs and wires on all cylinders with angled or straight plugs (including Vortec heads), but there are limits as to the brand of spark plugs you can use. Case in point, AC plugs are unusable with most heads as the length of their insulators are longer than any other available spark plugs. NGK plugs are great to use with these headers.

[DarkoNova]

Interesting.

I have shorty plugs on cylinders 5 and 6 right now but they're still touching the primaries.

I may just have to get a set of these.

Do you think Summit would have them or is there still a chance that they'd have the "old" headers?

[Toddoky]

Interesting.

I have shorty plugs on cylinders 5 and 6 right now but they're still touching the primaries.

I may just have to get a set of these.

Do you think Summit would have them or is there still a chance that they'd have the "old" headers?
Summit will sell you the exact same headers you see in the photos as long as you order the correct part number.

[WesB]

Toddoky

Does Hooker make an exhaust system that will clear a DSE Quadralink in a 1970 Nova? We have notched the front corners of the trunk floor and are using a Rick's tank with clipped corners. It still looks tight to me to get around the rear coil overs and to the back of the car.
I want to route the exhaust over the rear axle and back to dump below the rear bumper.
The engine is a 525HP LS3 with Ultimate Headers mid-length headers #101011.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Wes

[Toddoky]

Toddoky

Does Hooker make an exhaust system that will clear a DSE Quadralink in a 1970 Nova? We have notched the front corners of the trunk floor and are using a Rick's tank with clipped corners. It still looks tight to me to get around the rear coil overs and to the back of the car.
I want to route the exhaust over the rear axle and back to dump below the rear bumper.
The engine is a 525HP LS3 with Ultimate Headers mid-length headers #101011.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Wes
Hello Wes. Hooker offers a 3" kit to clear the DSE Quadralink suspension in a 1st-gen F-body, but not one for the 3rd-gen X-body platform at this time. Some companies advertise exhaust systems that are claimed to fit both applications, but I believe that claim is misleading to the user based on the differences between the wheelbase and floor heights of those cars. Any exhaust system prototyped on a 1st gen F-body will not provide maximized ground clearance on an X-body (X-body floors are much higher) and any system prototyped on an X-body to maximize ground clearance on those cars will not be installable on an F-body car. This is the reason Hooker offers specific exhaust systems for each application.

[WesB]

Toddoky,
Thanks for the reply. Looks like we'll building our own exhaust after all.
Wes

[rchaskin]

Interesting.

I have shorty plugs on cylinders 5 and 6 right now but they're still touching the primaries.

I may just have to get a set of these.

Do you think Summit would have them or is there still a chance that they'd have the "old" headers?

A quick fix might be to run two header gaskets on that side?

[Toddoky]

Toddoky,
Thanks for the reply. Looks like we'll building our own exhaust after all.
Wes
I would say that's your best bet if you want to end up with something that provides maximized ground clearance.

[badazz81z28]

How can you a call an exhaust kit that requires you to cut the floor and braces a custom kit?

[Toddoky]

How can you a call an exhaust kit that requires you to cut the floor and braces a custom kit?
I didn’t have involvement in the development of the system so I can’t credibly give an answer to your question.

[socoken]

Im looking to remedy the ground clearance issue with my 68 firebird. Currently has 2207-1HKR super comp ceramic coated headers. Drivers side is angled down and the collector flange is rotated to point down. The small block chevy has trick flow 195 heads, power steering, and an automatic transmission. Aside from the reduced primary size, are the 70101333-RHKR what I am looking for? The part number listed on page one is no longer at summit.


153803


153800 Upside down pic 153801153802

[Toddoky]

That part number would be the 1-3/4” version of the headers for raised D-port heads. The part numbers were changed when the headers were migrated into the Hooker Blackheart line, but their geometry is the same.

[Dark Pursuit]

I am replacing my low hanging dynatec headers before my trip to the f body nats in September. I am hoping that your new sbc headers will work on my lowered 67 camaro conv. ( original SBC w/ Trick Flow aluminum heads on tall oem motor mounts to Original frame--- Tremec TKO600 on Xfactor cross member---2.5 in exhaust. )
I am hopeful from the pictures here that your new headers will solve my clearance issues.
Is there anything that I may need to keep my exhaust tight up to my floorboards?

[Toddoky]

I’ll need to know the specific Trick Flow heads you’re using to be able to give you an assessment of compatibility.

[Dark Pursuit]

Toddoky, Thanks for the response.
I was mistaken on heads, they are Flo-Tek 101500 heads

[Toddoky]

I found the listing for that particular head on the Flo-Tek website and was able to verify that the exhausts ports utilize the stock exhaust port shape. I could not however find any information regarding the exhaust port height, so you'll have to contact them to verify if they are in the stock height location, or if they have been raised from that height. If the ports are at the stock, there's nothing about the design of those heads that would lead me to believe the Hooker headers for the stock port heads wouldn't work for your application. They are designed for straight or angled plugs so you are good to go there as long as you understand you are limited in what brand of plugs you can run with these headers...A/C plugs cannot be used because of their length being about the longest on the market. NGK (the manufacturer who makes A/C plugs these days) makes plugs that work great since they are shorter than the A/C plugs. The mini-starter I see in your photos may or may not clear the headers, so be aware of that.

[Dark Pursuit]

I checked height before I purchased them and they are stock exhaust location. Thanks for heads up on the starter, any recommendation for one that will fit ?
I was though, more concerned at cross member area, and looking for a recommendation there.

[Toddoky]

The headers may clear your starter fine, but I can’t say for sure by judging from a photo. In not, there are multiple starters available with clockable housings. I’m not going to be much help with judging compatibility with your crossmember as I’ve only ever seen the headers installed on a car with a stock crossmember.

[Dark Pursuit]

Thank you Toddoky,
Both answers clear my concerns, as the bottom of the xfactor cross member (from American powertrain) and oem member are at the same height. And upgrading my mini starter to clockable is an easy fix.
I'll post a picture when I get it all in.

[OregonianNova]

I am currently swapping an LS into my Xbody with a Holley 302-3 pan, accessory drive, engine/ transmission mounts and 1-7/8" mid length headers.... I currently have the subframe out and I am mocking everything up but I don't think there will be clearance issues lol. My plan is to use speedtech control arms and ride tech coil-overs and true turn and i didn't want there to be any interference. Since I am only running an L33 with Ls^ cam and intake I don't think I will be sacrificing any power over the long tube headers.

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[Toddoky]

Yeah, I don't see you having any clearance issues...ANYWHERE.

[Dark Pursuit]

156906156907Thanks my oil pan is now the lowest component under my car !

[Toddoky]

How much ground clearance would you say you gained over your previous set of headers?

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hi there Toddoky,
I have a 68 Firebird with a SBC in it, AFR210 competition port. Standard engine mounts, Turbo 400, makes 580HP. The car is lowered about 2". I currently have a set of 1 3/4" headers on the car which are press bent so very restrictive. I want to get a set of the Hooker Super Comps - 2207, the 1 7/8" primaries. I have been doing some research & lots of guys have said they have very bad ground clearance then I came across this post.
I don't want a set of pipes that are sitting 2" off the ground. I see you mention that the designs have been changed. Can you advise on if the 2207 has been changed & if there is a new part number ?

Thanks for any help.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Hi there Toddoky,
I have a 68 Firebird with a SBC in it, AFR210 competition port. Standard engine mounts, Turbo 400, makes 580HP. The car is lowered about 2". I currently have a set of 1 3/4" headers on the car which are press bent so very restrictive. I want to get a set of the Hooker Super Comps - 2207, the 1 7/8" primaries. I have been doing some research & lots of guys have said they have very bad ground clearance then I came across this post.
I don't want a set of pipes that are sitting 2" off the ground. I see you mention that the designs have been changed. Can you advise on if the 2207 has been changed & if there is a new part number ?

Thanks for any help.
Scott.
Hello Scott. The 2207HKR headers were designed decades before my arrival at Holley and before Holley bought the Hooker brand of products, so I don’t know much about them honestly. If you’re interested in newer designs that are based on the way cars are more likely to be configured and used today, I recommend you go to the Holley website and search for the 2109HKR headers. They were designed within the last 3 to 4 years and have much more up to date design geometry than the 2207HKR headers, including ground clearance.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hello Scott. The 2207HKR headers were designed decades before my arrival at Holley and before Holley bought the Hooker brand of products, so I don’t know much about them honestly. If you’re interested in newer designs that are based on the way cars are more likely to be configured and used today, I recommend you go to the Holley website and search for the 2109HKR headers. They were designed within the last 3 to 4 years and have much more up to date design geometry than the 2207HKR headers, including ground clearance.

Thank you for the info.
Can you tell me how long the 1 3/4" is before it steps up to 1 7/8" ?
The 3/8" flange is a good upgrade from the 5/16" that the Super Comps have.
Is both the left & right side header the same depth so one side does not hang lower than the other ?
These are obviously all mandrel bent pipes ?

Thanks.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

I would estimate the location of the step to be 7" or so from the port exit, it is before the second bend in each tube. Yes, the 3/8" thickness of the flange is a nice upgrade as is the flat finished port sealing surface (no more raised weld bead to cause leaks on certain cylinder heads). The collector heights are the same on both sides; the basic design of the 2109HKR headers is the same as the headers featured in this thread, so you can refer to all the photos posted to develop a mental image of their fitment. The flange port shape was optimized for compatibility with the ports of the GM Fastburn cylinder heads (they are raised .200"), so you'll need to check with AFR to see how compatible that would make them with your heads.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Thank you very much for the info, much appreciated.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hi Toddoky,

Just having another look on these 2109 headers & they are to suit a D port exhaust where the AFR heads I have are a normal square port. Have they made a header the same as the 2109 but with the square port exhaust ?
1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" into 3" collector to suit a SBC in a 68 Camaro/Firebird.
Thanks.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Hi Toddoky,

Just having another look on these 2109 headers & they are to suit a D port exhaust where the AFR heads I have are a normal square port. Have they made a header the same as the 2109 but with the square port exhaust ?
1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" into 3" collector to suit a SBC in a 68 Camaro/Firebird.
Thanks.
Scott. The 1-3/4 to 1-7/8” stepped headers for the D-port Fastburn heads are the only ones currently version available. There is an 1-3/4”
version of the headers available for stock
port heads, but not a 1-3/4” to 1-7/8” stepped version.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Thanks for the reply but I am after the bigger pipes.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

The 1-3/4 to 1-7/8” stepped headers for the D-port Fastburn heads are the only ones currently version available. There is an 1-3/4”
version of the headers available for stock
port heads, but not a 1-3/4” to 1-7/8” stepped version.

Hi Toddoky,
Would I be able to get the part number for the 1 3/4" headers you are talking about for a 68 Camaro, the new design ones to suit standard exhaust port ? Will these also suit the AFR angle plugs ?

Thanks
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Sure, the part numbers for those specific headers are as follows;

2105HKR- black painted steel
2105-1HKR- silver ceramic coated mild steel
2105-3HKR- black ceramic coated mild steel
70101331-RHKR- 304 stainless steel

The headers will clear your angled plugs with no problems.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Sure, the part numbers for those specific headers are as follows;

2105HKR- black painted steel
2105-1HKR- silver ceramic coated mild steel
2105-3HKR- black ceramic coated mild steel
70101331-RHKR- 304 stainless steel

The headers will clear your angled plugs with no problems.

Thank you again for your help.
Scott.

[1967camarors]

Any plans for BBC "high tuck" headers for the first gen Camaro?

[Toddoky]

Yes, we actually finished up the design work for a couple of new sets of BB headers for the 1st-gen application with a stock subframe and they should get released by Spring.

[1967camarors]

I will look forward to them. Have PNs been assigned yet?

[Toddoky]

Yes, part numbers have been assigned, but I can’t post them due to company policy. Once they get released I will make it a point to return to this thread and post them.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hi Toddoky,

I am still looking for a set of headers for my car but have not found anything yet. Can you see any plans in the near future for you guys to be making the 2109 Header with a square port instead of the D port ?

I am really after something in the 1 7/8".

Thanks.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Hello Scott. The decision of which new header applications get developed by the engineering department is made by management and the brand product manager. I've not heard any word from the product manager that would indicate current interest in developing a set of headers with the characteristics you are seeking.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hi Toddoky,

Do you have a picture of the header port that is on the 2109 & some dimensions so I can see if they will work as the pics I look at on the Summit website look to be square port pics ?

Thanks.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Hi Toddoky,

Do you have a picture of the header port that is on the 2109 & some dimensions so I can see if they will work as the pics I look at on the Summit website look to be square port pics ?

Thanks.
Scott.
Give me a couple of days and I’ll see what I can come up with for you.

[Toddoky]

Scott, these dimensions should allow you to determine if the Hooker Blackheart SBC D-port header flanges will work with your cylinder heads. Remember that the dimensions shown are for a bare flange, so they will diminish when the primary tube gets inserted into it and welded into place. Figure a 1/16" margin all the way around the port to allow for the combined tubing thickness and production gap tolerance between the tube and the flange.

162362

[DarkoNova]

Do you have 1 7/8" headers for a small block in the new design? Or is 1 3/4 the biggest?

And can I get the part numbers for 69 Nova with a small block with straight plug heads?

[Toddoky]

Matt, the largest primary tube size available in this new header design is a 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" stepped version (search for part number 2109HKR on the Holley website)intended for use on raised D-port cylinder heads (GM Fastburn head pattern to be exact). The largest primary tube size available for stock-type SB square port heads is 1-3/4" and those headers can be found by searching part number 2107HKR. The headers work with straight or angle plug heads with some restriction on spark plugs that can be used (i.e. you can't use standard A/C Delco plugs with these headers due to them having the longest porcelain tips of any brand of spark plugs available, NGK's work well).

[DarkoNova]

Hmm. I have Edelbrock heads and the exhaust ports are D shaped, but I don't think they're raised. Can I still run the stepped headers or should I just get the standard port headers?

[Toddoky]

Compare your exhaust port geometry to those I left in the attachment in post #99.

[DarkoNova]

Got it, thanks!

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Hi Toddoky,
Thank you for the info above.
I got some info from AFR on the port dimensions on my heads.
Port is -
1.420" high.
1.545" wide.
The port is raised 0.250" & the bolt holes are still centred in the port.

The pic you attached says your pipe/flange is 1.630" & take off 0.060" each side for pipe thickness will make your pipe 1.510" which is about 0.035" bigger than my port.
The height of your flange/pipe is 0.690 from the bottom to centre of bolt holes, take off 0.060" & its at 0.630". My ports are 0.710" which means I would need to elongate the bolt holes by 0.080" to get my clearance at the bottom.

By raising the bolt holes by 0.080" am I going to run into plug clearance issues or any other clearance issues ?

This will leave me 0.980" above the bolt centreline but will the pipe be hanging over the ports at the top due to the D shape ?

Thanks.
Scott.

[Toddoky]

Good morning Scott. Since the bolt hole center line is raised as well as the ports I would not recommend the Hooker Blackheart headers for your application as I can't say how they will fit with at the raised position your heads will present. The Hooker Blackheart headers were optimized for compatibility with the geometry of the GM Fastburn heads, so compatibility with other aftermarket cylinder heads will be hit or miss.

[SBC-68-FIREBIRD]

Good morning Scott. Since the bolt hole center line is raised as well as the ports I would not recommend the Hooker Blackheart headers for your application as I can't say how they will fit with at the raised position your heads will present. The Hooker Blackheart headers were optimized for compatibility with the geometry of the GM Fastburn heads, so compatibility with other aftermarket cylinder heads will be hit or miss.

Hi Toddoky,
Thank you for the time you took with all of your replies.

Scott.

[Protournova]

Any news on the BBC headers?

[Toddoky]

I'll check into it for you.

[Protournova]

Thank You..

[Toddoky]

The first run of the new headers in the 2" primary version has been completed, which means they should be getting release within the next 3-4 weeks. There is also an 1-7/8" version of the same header design that will get released in the next couple of months and a 2-1/8" primary header that utilizes a completely different tube routing scheme out of necessity that will get released latter this year. They all have 3" collectors on them and all attach to the Hooker Blackheart 3" LS swap exhaust systems that were developed for the 1st-gen F-body and 3-gen X-body applications.

[Protournova]

Do you have any information on the cost or part number? Port Design? Thank you for a prompt response..

[Toddoky]

I don't have any information on cost as I was not the design engineering responsible for carrying out that specific development project. When I notice the new product release for them come through my email inbox, I'll post that information as well as the photos that will be available for them. As far as the port shape is concerned, the 1-7/8" and 2" headers are both designed with slightly square port, which is required to interface with the stock head port geometry without shrouding the ports. The 2-1/8" headers that will be coming later will feature a round port shape as that is all that is required at that tube diameter to clear the stock head ports without shrouding them. Here's a photo of the port shape and finishing for the 1-7/8" and 2" headers. You can also see the clearance notches on the bottom edge of the header flanges that are there for increased head bolt clearance. 163765

[Protournova]

Very Nice...

[Dark Pursuit]

Will sbc headers work with 67 Camaro Speedtech sub frame ?

[Toddoky]

I don’t know if they will or not.

[TANKMASTERJ]

How about Stainless LS swap headers
I got a. 67 Camaro with speedtech front subframe and rack and pinion. It's the older speedtech pro touring subframe not the newer extreme. Using n LS7 wet sump
Jason

[Toddoky]

How about Stainless LS swap headers
I got a. 67 Camaro with speedtech front subframe and rack and pinion. It's the older speedtech pro touring subframe not the newer extreme. Using n LS7 wet sump
Jason
Hello Jason. Hooker Blackheart does make SS LS swap headers for the 1st-gen F-body application, but only specifically for the stock and DSE subframes. The DSE-specific headers may fit with your subframe (or not), but we would have no way of knowing since we have no first-hand experience with that particular subframe.

[TANKMASTERJ]

10-4 Thanks for the Reply
I'll guess I'll have. To just order speedtech headers. Theres are by ultimate which are finely crafted I just don't. Like the look of them. The #3 tune on driver's side goes up and. Over the #4. I get why they do it's for steering clearance but it's. Ugly!