Unchewable, the D170

[kingcrunch]

Hi.

Ok, i have been thinking for a while about how to start this build thread, how to start this project.
A while ago i saw Freiburgers Chevy C10 in the "muscle truck" installment of his and Finnegans show "Roadkill".

A fast, low mid 80s truck. That kind of rang a bell. A little later after that i stumbled across Rob Philips red C10. Call me hooked.
A few weeks ago - while knee deep in my other project vehicle (a '85 Dodge W250, stock restoration) - i decided i want to dig deeper into that fast truck topic that would not let me sleep.

Stumbling across Mark Boveys Targa Truck was inevitable and pushed me into the right direction: stock frame with cage and cross bracing, mostly stock suspension with tweaks, really good brakes, healthy engine, wide tires.

And i want the damn thing to run 170. Even a slighty hotter diesel euro-station-wagon runs like 150mph these days and i want to distinguish my build from that :lol:
I am actually sane and have a valid driving license for quite a while now, in case you wonder. It's a long term goal.


This project will have to take some large hurdles. Some of them are so problematic that i don't know whether the project can be completed. The largest part of that is the legislative over here.
We have a very well sanctioned type of race going on here every day called "dailly traffic". It does not command to have a cage but that's about it. I will have to adhere to the rules, maybe with a little bending but if i break them, it's not gonna work.


So bear with me when i say "no - can't do that" to a lot of things.

Alex

[kingcrunch]

After the initiation, i would like to give you a short rundown of the kind of hardware i want to work with.

the vehicle
I dig the 81-89 body style of Dodge pickup trucks. I own a '85 already and i want something a little younger.
Mainly because from '86 on they came with fuel injection. This will play a role in registration lateron.

The sheet metal is all the same from 81-89, the grilles vary. Typical engineering of that time...

So i want to use a '88 D150 shortbed, regular cab, rear wheel drive. Ladder frame, strut rod and a-arm front suspension, half elliptic leaf spring in the rear.
I plan to reinforce the frame by building and adding a crossbrace and running the cab cage down to the frame.

drivetrain
I want fuel injection, catalytic converters, instant engine starts in every weather, read: a modern mill.
I also want lots of power and reliability, because i want to be able to drive this whenever i want, whereever i want.
Since i drive a lot on our local highways (the autobahn), one or two overdrive speeds would be very nice - notice i also like fuel economy.

I think a modern 6.1 or 6.4 Dodge Hemi engine with a 545RFE transmission should do the trick. For "phase 1".

front suspension
New bushings - maybe aluminum and delrin (will have to be fabbed) all around.
6° or more caster, depends on what i can do. Spherical bearings instead of rubber bushings on the strut rods.
QA1 shocks.


front brakes
Uh, the great unkown.
Nobody makes stuff for Dodge trucks. Shame on you aftermarket guys. Just kidding. No demand, no market, right?
For beginners i will start with a 11.75" x 1.25" rotor and the stock caliper and do something for brake pressure.
I could either work with a hydroboost system or change the pedal ratio in combination with a smaller diameter master cylinder.
The tires will have a smaller diameter than stock, this will also help.

Add some cooling ducts to the fronts and go for it. In the back - depending of the rear axle to be used - i want to go for discs instead of drums.
Totally unknown for now, because the rear axle is undetermined.


tires and wheels
10x18 with 285/35 R18 front and rear
I am not a 100% decided on the design i want but the OZ Crono wheel comes close.

121533

[kingcrunch]

Quick explanation for the thread title "Unchewable, the D170"

"Unchewable" because i like to bite off pieces too big to chew.
"D170" because it's a D150 that shall run 170.

[kingcrunch]

safety
One big concern with this project is safety.
Safety for the driver and passenger mainly.
The base vehicle would probably fold up like a can when it hits something at any triple digit speed.

A cage will be installed to keep the cab intact in case of a roll over or t-bone accident. The rear bars shall go down to the rear of the frame.
I have no idea on how to tie the cages feet into the frame structure yet. Construction and building of the cage is a task that will be outsourced to a company that builds safety equipment.


While i adore bench seats, they are a chore in every curve you take.
I am undecided on whether i want a nice good adjustable long-distance leather seat (from a modern Mercedes for example, i like the amg seats in my W204) or something all-out-racing.
Most likely the first or similar...

aerodynamics
:rotfl:

For the problem of aerodynamics i have a few ideas but these will need to be put to the test when it's running and ready for testing:

- Air dam on the front (like a 90s Chevy C1500). It will include two funnels and ducts for front brake cooling, because race truck 8)

- lexan headlight covers

- To bleed air pressure from inside the engine compartment and to get rid of the immense heat a turbocharged engine (hint for drivetrain phase II) will produce,
i am thinking about creating two large cutouts into the hood and add a small lip on the front of each cutout. Yes, this is so stolen from Marks targe truck.

- Air guides on the roof which double act as a mount for a small wing on the rear egde of the roof to act like a kammback and direct the air stream to the end of the bed
This depends on where the air flow actually comes down below the silhouette of the bed. Shortbeds have less of that barrel-roll-vortex behind the cab... maybe it's not needed.

- at the end of the bed there will be another wing attached to the tailgate for some downforce on the rear end.

I am not sure whether i want a half or full tonneau cover or any cover at all...
Not sure what to do about the wipers too. They might need a cross-pin through the arm and shaft so they don't fly away at speed ;D

I am looking into the stuff ecomodders do for more mileage at the same speed. I can replicate that for more speed with the same bad mileage 8)

http://tylerlinner1.kinja.com/a-practical-guide-to-a-pickup-truck-aero-mods-1718476233

[kingcrunch]

addition to aerodynamics
A D150 of the era that i like has about 29 sq ft of frontal area, which is 6 less than a Ram SRT-10, yay!

[kingcrunch]

body
Old-school rallye car stuff will be done here:
- stitch welding of all body seams
- doubleing the number of overlap spot welds using a professional spot welding machine
- simple reinforcement panels in areas where the is no boxed structure, like the lower b-pillar, lower a-pillar, etc.
- as mentioned in "safety": a cage


frame
I want some kind of reinforcement, but welding on the frame is illegal for safety reasons. I can not drill and mount anything on the flange, because that is where the strength comes from.
Also the manufacturer disadvises to do that.
So the plan is to build a - as rigid as possible - cross-bracing structure, that bolts in.
I will be using material that has about the same tensile strength as the frame material, called S355, which is a low carbon structural steel. It's relatively cheap and easy to aquire.
Boxing the frame rails is an absolute no-go in my area.

[Motorcitydak]

Really looking forward to seeing this come to reality!

[Yukon Cornelius]

Frohes neues Jahr!

[kingcrunch]

Thank you! Had a great transition, cooking with friends, glass of wine, all good.

I too can not wait to see this happen. I have so many ideas i want to try and build...
But right now all this is about is contemplating and thinking up a proper concept before building.

[bovey]

As a GM truck owner I love seeing different brands and off years being built, I was looking at this era of Dodge truck this summer, a red short box, thinking that is would make a killer build. Then here you are actually getting ready to do it, awesome.

Then to start reading your thread and find out myself and the Targa Truck were inspiration; well, that is very flattering. Thank you.

Building a truck is an interesting experience you will meet a lot of people that say it can be done, but I assure you it can be. Besides there have been plenty before us attack to build them without issue.

I've read your plans a couple of times and have a few comments. My truck worked, but depending on how serious you want to get later on, you might be wise to set-up your game earlier on.

1) Front suspension.
I took a peek at some photos of the strut arm suspension. I'd do some homework and make sure you can meet your performance expectations with that set-up. You might be further ahead to get an IFS to save time and money over the long run. I'd be pulling the springs and dropping to your desired ride height and then putting the suspension through the range of travel, WITH the steering in different positions to see what the geometry in doing. Even better drag it to a motorsports alignment shop and have them measure it.

2) Suspension components. There is not a day I don't regret going to a 9" floater sooner than I did. Actually, I am just about to do this. Why? Safety, strength, and it really opens up your brake options.
On a truck, I'd also look into going with a stock car style spindle, Coleman for example. Personally, I've been dealing with Ron Sutton and I'm going to get a set of his design, which are manufactured by Coleman, if I recall.

Stock Car Spindles? 9" Floater? Why?

3) Brakes.
If you upgrade to the heavy duty spindles now and the 9" now, you get the best selection of brakes. Period.
Everyone makes tough-ass brakes for these parts with loads of options. I'm looking at Wilwood, Brake Man and Stop Tech. I was at the PRI show this year and was able to look closely at these manufacturers and I was very impressed with the racier stuff vs. the "Pro-touring" versions. For a heavy vehicle you want to be able to deal with heat. My current D52 and Wilwood set-up stop the truck great, they just can't handle the endurance. Venting. Venting. Venting.

On the subject of brakes, take a good hard look at your petal set-up. Trucks are very tricky to heal-toe. My foot is just wide enough to get the loud petal and the clutch, but it's also easy to miss...

4) Roll Cage
If I was doing it again, or from scratch, I would cut the inner body out of the cab and fit the cage and close to the exterior sheet metal as humanly possible and re-fit the inner body again. I'm 6' tall and space is limited. Once you put a proper seat and harness in, there is even less space.

Love the idea of this build. Please post loads of photos.

Have fun.

Give'r.

[kingcrunch]

Hey there!

Concerning the changes in suspension and brakes you suggested i am all for it but there's the guy in the blue work coat with his paperwork that permits the use of flat-out racing only brake components.
I'll be glad when i get allowance for the rear disc setup i want.

I also plan to aquire a suitable piece of software to simulate the stock suspension setup i have and the alterations i want to do.
This way i think it will be easier to evaluate its problems and the changes i find necessary.


rear axle
I have spare Dana 60 full floater housings from my previous 4x4 Dodges.

So my plan is to lop off the axle ends and have Moser D60 housing ends welded on square.
Then have custom 30-spline axle shafts made by Moser (actually not that expensive) and use the Wilwood D154 Rear Parking Brake Kit.
A good working parking brake is absolutely mandated by law in my area.

I am thinking about building a 0.5° toe in into the axle on each side, i have read that more angle will kill bearings and splines.

The diff will be re-geared if necessary.
For starters it will stay the 4.10:1 it is right now. I have a set of 3.55s in my W250 that needs replacing (because of OD transmission swap), so more options here.

The decision was made with the following things in mind:

- more rear end weight (although it's more unsprung mass too)
- availability (i have it)
- overall strength (and much of that)
- no crush sleeves to set pinion depth


rear suspension
The stock suspension on a Dodge truck is a setup consisting of two 2 1/2" wide, 5-leaf, 1650lbs spring packs, with a shackle pointing upward on the rear ends.
The axle is bolted underneath that spring pack. The stock bushings are a steel and rubber design, with an outer and inner steel shell.
The shocks mount to the u-bolt plate, Chrysler did not use a staggered shock design. They tilt inward and a little to the rear but that is it.

To reach target ride height the axle will be relocated above the spring packs, which means removal and re-attachment of the spring pads, custom u-bolt plates and shock mounts.
The springs will be disassembled, checked and fitted with nylon pads on the ends for less friction.

I am thinking about Caltracks as a traction aid and maybe a panhard bar, but i doubt i will have a lot of side to side deflection. I will have to learn more about roll centers and how the panhard bar affects it.
I will add welded (psssht! Don't tell anybody i welded on the frame parts) reinforcements to selected areas, such as the shackle and the front and rear spring mount.

Should i limit downtravel with straps, so it does not damage the shocks? I don't know how QA1s handle the weight of a D60...


I will have to make that setup handle the best i can. I would have a hard time to get a linked rear through legally.

[bovey]

Ah, you have very similar laws to us here in Canada. Some provinces have the no weld rule. In Ontario we still can weld, for now.

We have the parking brake rule here too. I wanted to use the D154 rear set-up on my 12 bolt, but those callipers do not come big enough to match my stock fronts. I suspect you might run into the same issue. Have someone run the braking force numbers before purchasing. The brake man offers a good option for the rear and has mechanical parking brake options as well. Otherwise brakes get pricey fast. I don't know much about Dana60s, but make sure yours can handle lateral loads okay. My 12 bolt GM was a disaster.

You will not need to add weight to the rear, trucks are not as out of balance as everyone thinks. The "light rear-end" is really a symptom of the trucks being set-up to carry loads, not the front rear weight bias. Also, in my time doing this I've had many people smarter than me tell me a balanced vehicle is more important that 50/50. Not that 50/50 is not desirable. Having a balanced set-up keeps the vehicle predicable. This turned out to be the secret of why the Targa Truck handled the way it does. It was only out 20 lbs. corner to corner when I finally got around to weighting get truck. It's 59% front 41% rear. Total weight 4386 lbs fully rally loaded with jacks, tools, spare tire, etc.

I have a guy I race with that runs a Impala SS and he limits the suspension with chains with great success. In some cases he actually ties the car down for greater spring rates. This in not my area of expertise. Too be fair, none of the this is.

Again, good luck. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[kingcrunch]

brake math

It took me quite a while to figure stuff out but it turns out that this tech is not too complicated. But please correct me if i am wrong.
Some of the values seem a bit high to me.

I need to write down a few given (right now, may be altered if needed) parameters of the preliminary setup:


- front caliper piston diameter: 3.09 inch
- front caliper piston area: 7.5172 sq inch
- front pad surface area (outer/inner): 10.12 / 9.43
- front rotor diameter: 11.75 inch
- front mean rotor radius: 5.08 inch
(assumed/calculated: rotor radius - (pad friction surface height / 2)
- brake pedal ratio: 3.85:1
- dual diaphragm 8" brake booster gain @ -8psi vacuum: 499lbs
- tire radius: 14 inch
- master cylinder bore diameter (no step bore): 1.125 inch
- master cylinder bore surface area: 0.994 sq inch
- coefficient of friction: 0.35 (assumed for stock pads)
- tire: 285/40 R19
- tire diameter: 27.98 inch
- driver braking pressure: 100 lbs


Ok, i did it all again because i had forgotten (how did that slip by?) that this truck can be had with a 8" dual diaphragm brake booster.

Here are the calculations for the front axle with 1/2t parts. The rotor comes from a fullsize passenger car for the 5x4.5 bolt circle.

front 1/2t
878,4 lbs/sq in * 7.5172 sq in = 6605 lbs = clamping force
(6605 lbs * 0,35 * 5,08 * 2)= 23488 = brake torque lbs in
23488 / 14 = 1677 = wheel brake torque
1677 * 2 = 3355 = per axle brake torque
stock hardware

I listed a few options for rear brakes i have gone through without finding suitable stuff:


wilwood d154
878,4 lbs/sq in * 1.98 sq in = 1739 lbs = clamping force
(1739 lbs * 0,35 * 5,25 * 2)= 6391 = brake torque lbs in
6391 / 14 = 456 = wheel brake torque
456 * 2 = 913 = per axle brake torque
brake bias fr/rr in %: 86:14
by far not enough

rear eldorado caliper (small gm with pbrake)
878,4 lbs/sq in * 3,24 sq in = 2846 lbs = clamping force
(2846 lbs * 0,35 * 4,8 * 2) = 9562 = brake torque lbs in
9562 / 14 = 683 lbs = wheel brake torque
683 * 2 = 1366 = per axle brake torque
brake bias fr/rr in %: 68:32
close but not enough

rear large gm (with pbrake)
878,4 lbs/sq in * 4,55 sq in = 3996 lbs = clamping force
(3966 lbs * 0,35 * 5,08 * 2) = 14212 = brake torque lbs in
14212 / 14 = 1015 = wheel brake torque
1015 * 2 = 2030 = per axle brake torque
brake bias fr/rr in %: 63:37
too much, can be adjusted with a prop valve
This last option needs a 1.24" wide rotor and makes it harder to find a suitable one and also i will have to make custom adapters, which is not a good thing to boot.


I am asking the Wilwood company if they could piece something together for me that i think might work. Still most Wilwood calipers lack proper dust boots but maybe i'll get through with that.

[kingcrunch]

Now with correct numbers... duh.

[kingcrunch]

heureka
I think i found a nice solution for a good rear disc brake setup (although thermal mass could be a little higher on the rotor):

wilwood 120-11482 caliper with dust boots and pbrake kit 140-11395

878,4 lbs/sq in * 4,80 sq in = 4216 lbs = clamping force
(4216 lbs * 0,35 * 4,7 * 2) = 13871 = brake torque lbs in
13871 / 14 = 990 = wheel brake torque
950 * 2 = 1981 = per axle brake torque
brake bias fr/rr in %: 63:37
too much, can be adjusted with a prop valve

[kingcrunch]

heureka
I think i found a nice solution for a good rear disc brake setup (although thermal mass could be a little higher on the rotor):

wilwood 120-11482 caliper with dust boots and pbrake kit 140-11395

878,4 lbs/sq in * 4,80 sq in = 4216 lbs = clamping force
(4216 lbs * 0,35 * 4,7 * 2) = 13871 = brake torque lbs in
13871 / 14 = 990 = wheel brake torque
950 * 2 = 1981 = per axle brake torque
brake bias fr/rr in %: 63:37
too much, can be adjusted with a prop valve

Well heureka - NOT! Unfortunately Wilwood told me that this combination does not work out.
Again i am looking into all kinds of options right now.


@Mark:
Did you know the D154 caliper is available in 4.12 sq in and 4.90 sq in piston surface area?

That would be my bail-out plan...

[bovey]

[QUOTE=kingcrunch; @Mark: Did you know the D154 caliper is available in 4.12 sq in and 4.90 sq in piston surface area? [/QUOTE]

Yeah. Sadly, there are not big enough for my application. Based on the number crunching for my truck, I need around 5.9ish sq/in for the rear calipers.

[kingcrunch]

I have seen the chart Ron made for your truck but that number is both calipers added, while the surface area i quoted is per caliper (times 2 = 8.24 sq in or 9.8 sq in).
Just beeing curious because my truck has even larger stock front calipers (3.1" piston bore, 7.55 sq in per caliper).

I assume it would be better to choose components that match as close as possible, to minimize the amount of hydraulic pressure wasted in the proportioning valve...

[kingcrunch]

The whole Wilwood-thing just took a bad ending when i followed your hint on bearing type and sideloads.
I am thinking about a big bearing Ford 9" with 76-79 Lincoln Continental disc brake setup and shafts and discs drilled for a 5x4.5 bolt pattern.

[bovey]

The whole Wilwood-thing just took a bad ending when i followed your hint on bearing type and sideloads.
I am thinking about a Ford 9" with 76-79 Lincoln Continental calipers and discs drilled for 5x4.5 bolt pattern.

I'm sorry that is the case, but happy you found out before you spent the money. I wish someone would have been more honest with me when I was at that stage. Be very tough on details like this. You can get away with more if you are just doing the Pro-Touring "look", but when you want to be hard on it, let alone take the vehicle into less than safe situations, these things matter.

Also, understand your front spindle bearing loads.

[kingcrunch]

Thanks again :)

Did you have problems with the front bearings? A D150s front bearings are about the same size as a C10, i think we should get about the same results.

[bovey]

Thanks again :)

Did you have problems with the front bearings? A D150s front bearings are about the same size as a C10, i think we should get about the same results.

Yes, I've fried my front bearings. They are a yearly throw-away item for me now, and I use a special high-temp wheel bearing grease.

To make a long story short, in my early days of researching frame parts, I did not trust the idea of pushing on a "performance suspension" made of Mustang II parts under a 4000lb truck. I even had questions about C5 and C6 stuff. But could I find answers, no. Would manufacturers tell me, no. So I searched for bearing loads, bearing specs, etc, etc, and Ron Sutton turned up late one night.

Below is some information on the subject of bearing loads. Read post #105. I'd reco reading this thread in totality.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/111963-Front-Suspension-amp-Steering-Geometry-for-Track-Performance/page6?p=1121878#post1121878

Read this too, if you have not. Bearing loads are covered again in here.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/103597-Safety-for-Pro-Touring-Track-Cars

[kingcrunch]

Found a nice little video that shows a D250 (exactly the same suspension) on a handling course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumNHHjNUlQ&feature=youtu.be&t=85

It shows the downfalls of this trucks short arm/long arm front suspension: positive camber in corners on the outer wheel.

[kingcrunch]

Took a few measurements on a stock spindle today:

6° of steering axis inclination. I also found out that i can easily modify that angle to up to 9° with a little machine work on the steering arm.
This thing is so beefy, it won't notice 0.1" missing.

[72BBSwinger]

You can put big Ford housing ends on your Dana 60 and reap all the benefits of them and the 60 in one.

[kingcrunch]

Do the big ford housings accept a tapered roller bearing?

[kingcrunch]

Answering my own question: Yes they do. The outer bearing diameter of a snapring bearing and the tapered "Set20" is about the same (give or take a hair).

Summing up rear brakes and axle

- Ford 9" (actually a 9 3/4") from 77-79 Lincoln Mark V / Continental
- big bearing (tapered)
- 11.5" disc stock, 2.5" single piston sliding caliper with parking brake
- 5x5 bolt pattern

What i want/need to change

- custom Moser axle for 5x4.5" bolt pattern, big bearing shank and 0.2" shorter for
- 02 Ford Explorer front 12" rotors
They have the 5x4.5" bolt pattern, are .5" larger and with almost 20lbs heavier than the Lincoln rotors
The hat is 0.2 lower hence the shorter axle shaft. I like to be able to buy my spare parts everywhere though.
- 3.55 or 4.10 gears (5500 or 5800 engine rpm @ 170mph in 2nd OD 0.69:1)

[DCohoon]

This is my exact rear end built except in a 12 bolt chevy.

[go-fish]

Glad you found out about the dreaded "green" Dana ball bearings. I ordered my S-60 from Strange and asked for what I got, Dana ends and Wilwood kit to match.

Now, one of my next upgrades will be big Ford ends (new style) and what is essentially the same Wilwood kit but for the Ford ends. I am trying to figure out if I can just get new Wilwood backing plates and retainers and use my rotors and calipers.

[bovey]

Now, one of my next upgrades will be big Ford ends (new style) and what is essentially the same Wilwood kit but for the Ford ends. I am trying to figure out if I can just get new Wilwood backing plates and retainers and use my rotors and calipers.

I tried to do the same with mine, the price of a spare set of rotors and the backing plates cost more than just buying the entire kit again.

[go-fish]

I am buying Wilwood parts individually from Summit. If you have a Dana Wilwood kit and are switching to Big Ford ends you only need two part #'s.

[kingcrunch]

The Wilwood stuff does not cut it for me anymore.
Their support did not come back to me on my question on which kit i could actually use the dust-booted caliper and it requires the use of the ball bearing with their kits. Two strikes against.

I do not want that again, i have had that experience with F.A.S.T. and their EZ-EFI V1 (coughcrapcough). I will try and cobble together stock components as best as i can and make that stuff work.
We will see where that will take me.


I am thinking about hydroboost. It has been available for the Diesel engines (78/79 and then after 89 again), so it should for the one hand mount right up and on the other be somewhat street legal.
Anybody have experience with that?

[Z06killinSBF]

Late model Mustangs use hydroboost and some models of Astro vans do

[go-fish]

For your rear end situation why don't you get a Chrysler 8.75. It has tapered bearing and has plenty more gear choices. It may be worth looking into a front end for a D-250 if their front bearings were bigger. Hydroboost also came on 89+ D250 with a Cummins.

[kingcrunch]

The 8.75 will most likely grenade when i hit it with 650hp... and i can not find brakes (caliper pistons usually too small) large enough for my truck on the stock applications that had a 8.75.

The D250 has bigger bearings but also a larger rotor, with a larger hub diameter (can not machine that down) and a 8 x 6.5 bolt pattern.
I would either have to get front hubs made (expensive) and find a suitable rotor (might work) or find something that fits the bearings (unlikely).
Next i would have to find wheels with a center hole larger than the bearing... most wheels have a 2.814" (71.5mm) center hole.
The D250s outer bearing has a 2.441" OD which would make for a very thin wall on a hub...

[kingcrunch]

I am thinking about getting the Hydroboost of a late 90s Ram, including the master cylinder (i will stick with the stock piston diameter of 1.125").

[kingcrunch]

Ladies and gentlemen,

i think we have a promising contender for the D170 project.

EDIT:
Nope. It was not meant to be.

[kingcrunch]

Ah, just before this thread ventures into the darkness beyond the 1st page.

I just bought a truck. I overpaid but shortbeds, be it Chevy or Dodge, are kind of "rare" expensive animals.
Well, this is it.

123557

This is a 1985 D100, slant six, four speed A833, no A/C, no power steering. The bench seat and pristine grille will be moved onto my 85 W250.
After that it will go into storage until my W250 is done and tagged.

[go-fish]

That looks like one that was for sale on Moparts.

[kingcrunch]

I failed to see that on Moparts... i bought it on Ebay.

[kingcrunch]

Slow progress.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image1-1.jpg?w=640

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image2-1.jpg?w=640

[Godbolt]

But important progress!

Clean looking truck. Nice one.

[kingcrunch]

It's really clean and i already have a bad feeling about cutting holes into the cab... While i am playing the waiting game, i can aswell post the pics i got.

Exterior:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/576-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/572-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/571-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5717-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/574-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/575-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5715-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5716-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/573-1.jpg?w=900


underhood:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5723-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5719-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5722-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5720-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5721-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5718-1.jpg?w=900


Interior:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/578-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/577-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/579-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5710-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5714-1.jpg?w=900

Comes with complete paperwork

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5713-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5712-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/5711-1.jpg?w=900

[kingcrunch]

Underneath:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image11-1.jpg?w=640

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image21-1.jpg?w=640

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image3-1.jpg?w=640

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image4-1.jpg?w=640

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/image5-1.jpg?w=640

[go-fish]

That is super clean. Nice buy!

[kingcrunch]

Truck arrived at the warehouse in Houston. More waiting.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/426161oliver16-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/426161oliver20-1.jpg?w=900

Still contemplating on how to achieve big brakes. I am looking into Gen 2 Viper parts again... and the V10.

[kingcrunch]

Ditched the idea about the V10 when i learned what it weighs.
It's about 165lbs heavier than the 6.1/6.4 Gen 3 Hemi.
The Gen 3 Hemi in turn is only 10-20 lbs heavier than the 225 slant six that's in this truck.

[Godbolt]

Someone has loved that truck. Great find.

[72BBSwinger]

Ditched the idea about the V10 when i learned what it weighs.
It's about 165lbs heavier than the 6.1/6.4 Gen 3 Hemi.
The Gen 3 Hemi in turn is only 10-20 lbs heavier than the 225 slant six that's in this truck.
The Gen III's are around 500lbs with accessories, they are not as light as many think. An aluminum V10 is right in the same neighborhood.

[kingcrunch]

Everything counts when you are coming from (an estimated) 70/30 front/rear weight distribution.
I am adding an intercooler, piping, a turbo, manifold and i don't want to add more than necessary.
The stock copper rad will be replaced with an aluminum unit, battery moved to the rear, bumper replaced with a fiberglass version if i can find someone that can take a mold from the stock bumper.
Saving weight on the front end and moving everything that's not necessary up front to the rear is key - i think.

[rab]

very clean truck, like the idea behind the build.

[kingcrunch]

The truck will arrive in a few days! Yay!

I talked to a company that makes top-notch road legal carbon fiber parts. They would build me a carbon fiber version of my bumper (3600 USD including the mould and first bumper).
Anybody interested in a carbon fiber Dodge bumper?

As soon as the truck has arrived, i will pick the best bumper, bolt that to my other '85 Ram and take the not-so-good bumper to the sand blasters shop where it will be stripped of the chrome.
After that, all openings will the welded shut (temporarily) for a smooth surface.

[kingcrunch]

Ok guys, it looks like i will take delivery of the truck sometime around next week. Yay!

[kingcrunch]

Behold, the race truck.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160421_133051-1.jpg?w=900

[Centerforce]

Behold, the race truck.



Wow that trucks immaculate! We're ready to see the modding commence :twothumbs

[kingcrunch]

It really is. Even the description of the vehicles condition on the warehouse receipt states "NICE!!!"
The only downfall is, that the keys came with the keyring of a Chevy dealership :lmao:

[kingcrunch]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/oneofeverything-1.jpg

It will need a refresh of the chassis, new red and violet wires in the engine wiring harness (insulation hard and cracked), all of the plastic vacuum connectors will need replacing (how do you shrink rubber?) and it does not have a front anti sway bar.

I will spare the ball joints until i know whether this bad boy fits in there:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/572-1.jpg?w=900

This is a spindle off a Gen 2 Viper.
I took some measurements from that picture, according to these it should be only slightly higher than the stock truck spindle and incorporate a 2" drop over the stock spindle.
If this would prove to be correct i can see about the balljoints needed to adapt it...

Anybody have a good idea for replacing the rubber bushings at the strut rod? I am not too fond of the caster changing during braking.
I do not like the idea of using spherical bearings, they are not really made for that direction of load.

[kingcrunch]

Toys for the toy.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160425_163714-1.jpg?w=900

This is a Gen 2 Viper spindle. I'll compare it to the stock truck spindle i have on the bench lateron. Hope it fits without too much modification.

More pics in a few hours.

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

Toys for the toy.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160425_163714-1.jpg?w=900

This is a Gen 2 Viper spindle. I'll compare it to the stock truck spindle i have on the bench lateron. Hope it fits without too much modification.

More pics in a few hours.

You may want to look into the duty rating of the bearings that are incorporated into the Viper spindle. I'm sure Viper's nose weight is a lot less than the truck, throw in the added load of auto cross duties/racing, and you may very easily exceed the designed load limit. This same conversation has been discussed many times with using Corvette spindles in retrofit applications on older muscle cars, but they aren't much heavier than the Corvette. Just something to consider.

[kingcrunch]

Thanks Mike!


I think you are right.
It might become a problem in the future... but on the other hand, the Viper bearing at least is designed to work with really wide wheels and high corner loads which would be a problem with the ancient truck bearing design.
I do plan to cut quite some nose weight off this truck (mainly by using custom carbon fiber parts and relocating stuff, light all aluminum V8, aluminum radiator, etc.) so the bearing problem might put itself into perspective then.

After some careful measuring it seems the Viper and the D150 share some parts or at least some design features:

- tie rod orientation and taper (taper is the same, referenced with the MOOG catalog)
- ball joint orientation and taper on upper and lower ball joint (it looks like they share the Moog K778 upper ball joint)
- steering arm is within reach (24mm shorter than the Dodge steering arm, which is great because it will enhance steering ratio)

It also comes with a 1.9" drop over the stock dodge spindle.

So far for the similarities. The problem is:

- while the faces of the ball joint holes on the truck spindle are parallel, on the Viper spindle they are designed to be parallel to the control arms, which have lots of anti dive designed into them.


I apologize, the pics turn out to be crappy. Usually my cell phone makes better pictures... but i think it can be easily seen what i am talking about.
Don't let the steering arm on that truck/van spindle confuse you like it did with me. It is a part of a van and on them the tie rod mounts upside down compared to the trucks.

Side to side of the spindles:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160425_180538-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160425_180645-1.jpg?w=800


I hope i can get away with the misalignment of the ball joints and here is why i think i can:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160425_191225-1.jpg?w=900

This pic shows the suspension with the hydraulic jack under the lower control arm, with full nose weight on it.
The ball joint shaft sits at an angle. With the viper spindle it should straighten out more...

Anyways i believe (and yet have to get exact numbers) i will have to do something about the control arm placement.
I'll try and aquire measurements of the Vipers front upper control arm. Maybe it fits aswell? At least they seem to share an upper ball joint.

I'll keep you updated.


Alex

[Tincup]

Welcome to the "Red-Headed Step Child" of truck building, Nobody makes anything for Dodges. Looks like you found yourself an real nice foundation to start with.

[kingcrunch]

Well, Chevrolet has nice trailing arms that can be adapted.
I look at myself as a pioneer, establishing a bridgehead into uncharted territory :lmao:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160426_185024-1.jpg?w=506

This is the second one but trust me, the first was no different.
It took two hours to straighten and split the first one.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160426_185035-1.jpg?w=506

Drilling out the spot welds went down very easy though, center punch, drill a pilot, drill out with a 10mm drill.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160426_185044-1.jpg?w=506

The arms are held together by ten spot welds with 6 at the axle end and the other four spaced over the whole arm.
They are pretty solid, there's only one spot that has rust damage...

I don't know how i want to fix it because there is two ways i could do that (the arms are 4mm thick steel aswell):
No. 1:
- cut two 4mm plates to fit and replace the rust damaged area on each arm individually

No. 2:
- cut one 8mm plate to fit in that rust damaged area, the plate would connect both arms solid in that area.


I absolutely had to do a little mock up to see what i am working with.
This is an empty D60 housing, flipped upside down (don't pay attention to that, i did it so the spring pads sit flat on the trailing arms, no other intention).
The "crossmember" is just a piece of aluminum stock we have in the shop.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160426_200437-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/img_20160426_200447-1.jpg?w=900

[kingcrunch]

I played a little with some random picture editing software because i had no schematic of a 115" frame.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/115inchframe-1.jpg?w=900

For a while now i wanted to visualize where the crossmember will have to be located and how the coil springs would have to be mounted to the D150s frame.
Which is why i made an overlay of both:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/c10d150115inchframeoverlay-1.jpg?w=900

CardboardAidedDesign will be applied ;D

I figure, with that much room on top of the axle (compared to the Chevy frame) i could aswell move the coils on the axle housing.

[brawls43]

Loving the look of this project! Truck looks great!

[kingcrunch]

Sh... now this wheel bearing load topic Mike mentioned freaks me out.
I guess you are correct Mike, the same bearing arrangement is used in Grand Caravans and they eat wheel bearings while weighing about the same as my truck.
So that might be a regular item to change... the spindle itself looks beefy enough to me.

[kingcrunch]

I played with LibreCad to visualize the bolt pattern dilemma. I like the Viper spindle but the Viper bolt pattern is a p.i.t.a.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/04/boltpattern-1.jpg?w=900

The Viper has a 6 x 4.5" bolt pattern. It's odd, there is a limited amount of wheels available (at least for the European, thoroughly regulated market) and all sell for obscene four-digit-per-wheel-prices.
The Viper wheels themselves do not look that great, carry a Viper price tag and do not fit under the truck.

For a 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern, the variety of actually affordable wheels is much broader.
In fact this bolt pattern is the only one that could be machined into a Viper brake rotor without really intersecting the existing bolt holes.
All other common bolt patterns, like 5 x 5 or metric, like 5 x 120, 5 x 112, etc. breach into one or more holes of the Viper bolt pattern.

It also happens to be the bolt pattern used on the only wheel bearing that could be used to convert a Viper to a 5-bolt pattern. Looks like it has to go that way...

Mopar Part Number is 4641517AD, MOOG 513123, SKF BR930

All info obtained at Viperalley.com.

[kingcrunch]

Tin-hammering friday:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160429_185520-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160429_202051-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160429_202043-1.jpg?w=900

This is prep-work for taking a mould of the bumper to re-create it in carbon fiber.
The company i hire for that job asked me if i could close all the holes and larger openings. I also wanted a place to mount a splitter/aid dam to, so i had to elongate the lower flange of the bumper.

[kingcrunch]

Spent half of the day measuring for a coil spring crossmember and landing pads for the coils and in the end it turns out i based my measurements on a misconception. Bummer.
Good thing i noticed my mistake before i have a crossmember made...

[kingcrunch]

Chewing metal. Second attempt on designing a rear coil spring crossmember and coil spring landing pad.
I think i have it now...

This was attempt no. 1 and is a bad design. It will interfere with the axle housing (testing with my spare full floater D60, because i wanted an axle housing with a large pumpkin).
What you see is the profile (which would sit inside the framerails), the spring landing pad is the strip of metal underneath the frame.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160504_134439-1.jpg?w=900

When i noticed that (big DOH! moment), i looked at the Chevy frames again and basically adapted that to the Dodge frame.


Attempt no. 2:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160504_143529-1.jpg?w=900

C-profile crossmember, the landing pad is bolted to it.

That got transferred to CAD. I sent the drawings to a company i occasionally hire to do laser cutting, they have a cnc-press brake aswell.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160504_150546-1.jpg?w=900

[kingcrunch]

You have to look at the little sketch on that piece of paper, to see the whole idea for the spring landing pad. It's not just that strip of metal, but basically a box that engulfs a part of the frame.
I don't want to put the load into the lower flange alone.

I'll post screenshots of the dxf-files when i am awake again. Right now typing happens on auto-pilot...

[kingcrunch]

I aquired a copy of Suspension Analyzer FV. Let the measuring odysee begin!
I will take the trucks front suspension apart for that task, mainly because all bushings need replacing (and a tour to the media blaster) and second it's easier to take frame measurements this way.

[kingcrunch]

More money spent:
- nobody would want to answer my questions about the dimensions of Viper front UCAs, so i bought one to figure out myself
- i also aquired the passenger side Viper spindle

Another 600 bucks out the door.

[Dr G]

More money spent:
- nobody would want to answer my questions about the dimensions of Viper front UCAs, so i bought one to figure out myself
- i also aquired the passenger side Viper spindle

Another 600 bucks out the door.It's hard to beat having the part right in front of you in terms of getting the right measurements. Not cheap, but worth in my opinion. Gustave

[kingcrunch]

I tend to agree but knowing a part has dimensions close to the target before shelling out money beats having it on the table to play with it in my book.
But when i learn a part fits i can't wait to get it in my hands... each coin has two sides i guess :smoke:

[kingcrunch]

Interesting fact:

The LRE (little red express) needed only 225hp to run 118mph (with a 727).


For itself, that's no news.
But it allowed me to back-guesstimate the drag coefficient, because everything else is known.
It looks to me like 2wd Dodge trucks have a drag coefficient of 0.55 and a (guesstimated) frontal area of 33sq ft.

That's the guesstimated value for a - excuse the choice of words - pig on stilts.
I think a lowered truck with a few aero enhancements might actually do better than this.

It still needs 650hp to run 170 though... but it should run 150 with the stock 6.4 crate motor it will give a home to. Yay!

[kingcrunch]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/2244_1-1.jpg

Bronze is the new hype, isn't it?
They also make wiiiiide wheels with lots of backspacing (5" +), WITH road legal certificates!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/schnittvergleichkv1_90_105-1.jpg?w=891

Everything is still very much experimental and undocumented at this moment, i will have to measure and do the math to find the backspacing needed for a nice scrub radius (not dead zero but juuuust a little positive radius for more steering feel).

[2ndroundko]

Those wheels are sick. loving the build. Interested to see how the truck arms work out but also curious why use factory trailing arms when there are so many other options; used nascar, custom, tubular... Either way good look looks like you have a good handle on it.

[kingcrunch]

The fabricated I-beam of the factory arms is in fact the most flexible arm around. With a setup like this you absolutely need flex to avoid binding or premature bushing wear.
This is why i shied away from fabricated tubular or Nascar arms. Too rigid. This is why i will stick with factory rubber bushings instead of poly.

Also too problematic to get these fabricated arms through the road tech inspection, staying road legal is key to this project.

Sooo, rebuilt factory arms it is. I plan to reinforce them like the factory did: They put a plate on the underside of the arm, about 1/2 of the arm in length.
The factory arms also give me a good datum to build from. All of the Nascar arms i looked at had a different length, pretty confusing.

I received the passenger side spindle i bought off Ebay. That's what you get for 480$:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160513_180325-1.jpg?w=900


I am also digging through the Rockauto database for a suitable front brake rotor. Using the Viper rotor gives me headaches, because of the bolt pattern.
Drilling a 5x4.5" bolt pattern next to a 6x4.5" bolt pattern without interference is next to impossible. There is no "nice way" to close the interference bolt holes.

The closest candidate i could find is the front rotor of a 2015 Mustang GT:

13.85" in diameter - Viper is 18.97" (no problem, machine 1/2 of the difference in diameter off the mounting pads on the spindle, done)
1.26" thickness - Viper is identical
1.18" discard thickness - Viper is identical
5x4.5" bolt pattern - as needed

I am having a hard time to find more info about the rotor, especially the height. It has to be larger than 2.334", which is the height of the Viper rotor.
Larger can be spaced out, smaller would interfere with the caliper.

Bodge measuring using a random image manipulation program leads me to the conclusion that the Mustang rotor has a height of 2.48" ... but i have been mislead by that method before.
Anybody happen to own a '15 Mustang GT 5.0 and willing to remove a rotor for taking measurements?


The next best candidate is the rotor of a 09-13 Mercedes CL550 but that would require modification in form of drilling the desired bolt pattern, which would not be a big problem at all but i like a better solution if possible.
I would really like to be able to order a bone stock wear part and use it without modification. Modification is time and in this case lost time.

[kingcrunch]

Because race truck:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160513_152435-1.jpg?w=700

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160517_173637-1.jpg?w=700

[kingcrunch]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160523_195925-1.jpg?w=700

Viperrrrr parrrrrts. Yay. I received the passenger side front upper control arm for mockup!
It is 10mm smaller on the inside (from the face of the bushing to the face of the opposed bushing) compared to the trucks UCA.
Everything else, like the position of the ball joint, looks to be in the ballpark. Obviously i will have to mock it up to get more accurate measurements.

In case i need some variation, i can swap drivers and passenger side UCAs.


I am waiting for that guy to pick up the last large parts of my former '76 truck to free up the shop space for the D170. Can't wait!

[bovey]

Love the progress. On the GM trailing arms, check out No Limits new trailing arm kit, with upgraded ball-ends there is a lot bang for buck you could adapt very easily.

[kingcrunch]

I just pulled the trigger on a 25k miles 6.4 hemi engine with the TR6060 transmission, all the wiring and ECUs.
14k hurts but it seems like a good deal.

Video of that particular deal:
https://youtu.be/Tgsck8Tdvfk

[Tincup]

I bought my SRT10 chassis from them, their not cheap, but they do sell good stuff.

[bovey]

I just pulled the trigger on a 25k miles 6.4 hemi engine with the TR6060 transmission, all the wiring and ECUs.
14k hurts but it seems like a good deal.

Very impressive presentation. 100% need to see unboxing photos to see how it is after transit. Super cool purchase.

[kingcrunch]

Regarding ebay-prices for used 6.4s (8000+) and TR6060s (2400+) (add all the doodads that come with the engine and transmission) i think it's a real good deal.
They are also extremely communicative and good to work with and made a good offer for shipping. I hope it stays that way, they have more stuff that i would like to buy...

I am debating with myself wether i want the pallet to sit in my garage or in my flat so i can play with it ;)


I also talked to an engineer of our technical surveillance (TUEV) and it's possible to make that engine road legal in my truck. Obviously the brakes will have to be adressed.

[Godbolt]

Very, very cool.

[kingcrunch]

When i ever get into the situation of needing "mo brakes", Brembo has me covered:

http://www.brembo-onlineshop.de/product_info.php?products_id=43515

15"x1.3" rotor, six piston caliper, road legal.

[kingcrunch]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160531_190226-1.jpg?w=700

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160531_193221-1.jpg?w=700

Says it all.
I removed the original bushings (for testing) and when the pickup UCA bushings came in from Rockauto today, they were strangely familiar.

It turns out it's the exact same piece.

But still, too small a gap between the inner faces of the bushings. Until you remove the "faces" (in fact the shims).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/img_20160531_194601-1.jpg?w=700

[kingcrunch]

Aloha fellow devotees to the gods of speed.


I think i finally chose the rear axle setup for my project: 05/06 1500 Ram SRT-10.


Initially i looked for axles that would have a 3" axle tube diameter, in fear that large tubes would not fit the Chevy trailing arms i want to use.
But ultimately, a 8.6" Chevy rear end is still a relatively small 10-bolt rear end with an awful 6-lug bolt pattern that would interfere with my plans for a 5x4.5" bolt pattern.


Back to the drawing board. I have been looking at Chrysler axles before but the disc and caliper combination of standard 1500 models did not appeal to me.
Surfing around Ebay for calipers (basically a brainstorming) i found a set of Ram STR-10 rear calipers. These have two 36mm pistons instead of one 54mm piston.
Interesting stuff.

Digging deeper into that axles specs i found that the disc and caliper combo is quite nice to start with:
14x1.18" disc, two 36mm piston sliding caliper, which is a larger disc than the Chevy setup i was looking at.
Also the 9.25" ring gear should be good enough for what i want to do (the SRT-10 has a little more power).

And it could cope with the STR Rams tremendous weight of 5130lbs (curb).
Should be plenty for a sub 4000lbs shortbed truck with less horsepower (for now).

[TTurbo565]

Hello Alex. What you are doing is very cool! I have a complete SRT10 axle (without calipers) sitting in my garage. I can help you with any measurements that you need. Off the top of my head the specs are as follows: Width 69.5" WMS to WMS. Tube diameter 3.5" (I have plans to install it in my C10, and it looks like it will fit the U-bolts). 9.75" ring gear. 35 spline axles with 5 X 5.5 bolt pattern. The wheel/rotor pilot is 3.06" (check your wheels!). (350mm) 13.8" X1.18" rotors with integrated drum parking brake. From what I have read, the only weak parts are the spider gears. The reccomendation is to Cryrogenically treat the gears. They also sell them.
Joe

[kingcrunch]

Joe, thank you for the offer and the specs. The C10 U-bolts are 3.5" ID, might be a little tight but it should fit.
This guy has installed a 14-bolt axle in his C10 and that should be a 3 3/8" diameter axle: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=624445

Friends,

please witness the first prototype of the crossmember to convert my truck to trailing arms.
It's a historical moment for Dodge truck frames ;D

Without further ado:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160603_171842-1.jpg?w=900

And with a mockup C10 spring:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160603_171856-1.jpg?w=700

I think the spring landing pads are a bit small at 90x90mm. 100 or even 110mm would have been a better size.
I think i will have to re-do them.

[kingcrunch]

Looking at the landing area on the trailing arm... the crossmembers landing pad might not be too bad at all.

[kingcrunch]

Sold my NV4500 and will be buying a Ram SRT-10 rear axle soon! Yay.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/sl1600-1.jpg

This is a D60 semi floater axle with 13.8x1.18" discs and two-piston floating calipers.
If it's good enough for a 5000+ lbs truck, it'll be plenty enough for my needs.

[Z06killinSBF]

Looks like you're getting some serious parts, this will be very nice.

[kingcrunch]

I hope so... now i would like to find a set of NOS trailing arms. I don't trust the repops and i have mixed feelings about the parts i am refurbishing right now.

[kingcrunch]

Quick update on the repop trailing arms.
I just learned these are available from Dynacorn. When i still had my '65 Mustang i had good results with Dynacorn parts.
I will give them a try.

[Tincup]

128333
That's the same rear I'm using in mine, although I had it narrowed 6"

[kingcrunch]

Mike,

could you tell me the width of the axle WMS to WMS? All i was able to find is the track width of a '05 Ram which is 67.5. I would like to start thinking about backspacing for the rear wheels.
Thanks!


Stuff i did in the last few days:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/c10d150115inchframeoverlay2-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/c10d150115inchframeoverlay3-1.jpg

That did not take very long. But this did:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/trailingarmreinforcementwithpanhardmount-1.jpg

Complete, fold around trailing arm reinforcement. I want to integrate the panhard mount into these pieces and that's a bit more complicated origami stuff.

Alex

[kingcrunch]

I moved the truck into the shop. We used my buddies '76 W200 to pull it through town, unfortunately no pics of that.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160624_175854jpgW500-1.jpg?w=500

I could not help myself and tore into the front suspension immediately.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160624_205030jpgW500-1.jpg?w=500

All joints and bushings are pretty much worn.
But as you can see, the Vipers UCA does fit in there.
Unfortunately i am not convinced of what i am seeing there.
I installed the knuckle as well but with the stock spring it sits way too high, with the UCA almost touching the crossmember.

I think a UCA shaped more like a U instead of a V might do the trick... So i'll go surfin Ebay again.

And this also leads to the very next concern: Rebound bump stops.


Also of concern for today:
Any ideas on how to remove the spring without a spring compressor?

[Z06killinSBF]

Will it not just pop out with the shock removed?

[kingcrunch]

I had to remove the strut rod and reposition the jack (that block of wood did not allow it to drop all the way), unbolted the upper shock mount and was then able to drop the LCA all the way.
I left the shock absorber installed as a safety measure until the spring was free of tension. I don't want one of these to bump into my chest or face...

I did some more mockup stuff with the suspension free to move around:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160625_145010-1.jpg?w=900

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160625_145033-1.jpg?w=506

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160625_145053-1.jpg?w=506

The LCA is about level at ride height.

I also recorded some measurements while i was at it. Without any further modification, the suspension has about 6.5" of travel (UCA touching to LCA touching).
With the adjusters all the way out (as seen from the center axis), i get about 1° of camber. Did not measure caster.

But i looked at camber gain:
About -3° (-4° net) at full compression and +0.5° (-0.5° net) at full droop. An inch below and above ride height, i could not observe camber change.

Expectedly, there is quite a lot of bump steer:
Over the 6.5" of travel i see a difference of .88" between full compression (front of wheel turns to center axis) and full droop (front of wheel turns away from center axis).

Inward bump starts about 1" compression from ride height and outward is present pretty much from ride height.


I also took a few measurements for the wheels i want to run... and i noticed that with the planned ride height i will have to modify the wheel housing to gain room for the wheel and tire.
I kinda orientate from the lower edge of the cab corner and fender and have the hub center about 1" above that... so i don't really have a ride height as in "frame to ground" yet.
All i know right now is that the hub center is about 14" off the ground (27" tire).


I can make these parts work but i will look into alternatives. Namely late model Ram suspension parts. I ordered a used UCA of a '05 Ram 1500 for test fitting.

Seeing these pics makes me think about aquiring a new cell phone... i really start to dislike the crappy camera my Blackberry has.

[kingcrunch]

Mockup tires:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160627_145010-1.jpg?w=506

My shoes are size 11, just for comparison.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Cool Project! I like the dare to be different!

[kingcrunch]

Looks like i need wider tires.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160627_171122-1.jpg?w=506

When you think you got a real wide tire, stick it on a truck. It will look flimsy and thin immediately.

Not too bad though:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160627_171108-1.jpg?w=506

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/img_20160627_171025-1.jpg?w=506

[kingcrunch]

Oops, double post.

[kingcrunch]

Today i poked around with an angle finder to see where the Viper UCA and spindle dial in with no additional modifications.

They are iiin the ballpark not nowhere good.

We've got:

1 to -4° of camber (with all of the adjustment available)
10 to 14° of caster

The stock Viper alignment specs call for:

-1.5° camber
5.5° caster

Using the D150s upper control arm, i see the following:

+1 to +4° camber
4° caster

I can't not pull the D150s control arms further in, but i could recreate the upper control arm mounts so the Viper UCA sits further outboard.
I could also move the LCA towards the center line but with wheel choices limited to ET 30mm or 35mm (that's the wheel mounting surface moved outward from the centerline) that's a no no.

[kingcrunch]

I'll be looking into Ram SRT-10 suspension parts closer.
Right now, i see no good way to make the Viper parts work properly, because the UCA so narrow... it would have to sit further to the front of the truck and i can not move it there.
In return i can not move the LCA further back, because that would ultimately push the wheel from the centerline of the wheelhousing too much.

[kingcrunch]

Currently in the process of aquiring '04-05 parts... apparently these years had the special drop spindle Chrysler made for that truck.
It's not available from the dealer anymore and it's rarely seen on Ebay.


In fact i just bought a pair of brand new SRT 10 brake calipers.
The seller claims they are massive and he has to send them in two boxes because of the size...

Well, i thought the Viper stuff was massive, i am curious what's awaiting me here.


Good thing:
The seller is in the SRT 10 club of Germany and gave me a phone no to call for more SRT 10 parts.



Here's the game plan:

Problems i see:
- The SRT 10 spindle is about twice as high as the Viper spindle.
- the lower ball joint mounts with the bolt facing down
- the LCA can't be adapted to the D150s frame


Goodies:
- Front steer
- the lower ball joint does not mount from below
- massive wheel bearing
- massive 15" brakes
- designed for a heavy and fast vehicle
- the ball joint mount on the SRT 10 LCA is riveted to the LCA


You may already see what i am up to.

Actions:

Lower Control Arm:
- aquire a pair of Van LCAs
- cut off the ball joint mount of the Van LCAs (marked red)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/amg_rk620243_p04_angjpgW600-1.jpg?w=600

- drill the rivets from the SRT10 LCA and remove the cast iron ball joint mount

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/100_1231jpgW600-1.jpg?w=600

- transfer the bolt pattern to the cut Van LCA
- drill and ream the holes
- make template for a reinforcement plate and have that cut from S355 steel
- bolt together with four 10.9 shoulder bolts
- weld the reinforcement plate into the Van / SRT 10 hybrid LCA
- then come up with an idea on how to mount the strut rod.


Why Van LCAs?
Because there is no holes on these that can interfere with the mounting holes of the SRT10s ball joint mount.
I hope that the bolt holes of the strut rod are close to the bolt holes of the ball joint mount so that i can make things fit somehow and bolt them up with two longer 10.9 bolts.

Second, the Van LCAs have deep spring pockets, allowing me to run a longer spring than stock so i can run a spring with a thinner wire and more coils or maybe a progressive spring for better suspension response characteristics.

The lower control arm will be pretty much parallel to the ground so i don't get weird camber changes around ride height.


Upper Control Arm:
- aquire a new pair of 05 or 06 (i tend to want 05 because they are cast aluminum compared to stamped steel in 06)
- make a stand that holds the spindle at the desired camber and caster (.0° and 5.75°)
- locate good spots for the inner UCA mounts
- make templates for upper UCA mounts, have them cut and bent from S355 steel
- drill and remove rivets holding original mounts and remove original mounts
- make reinforcement brackets to replace the original UCA mounts
- ream and bolt back together with shoulder bolts, weld to shock mount
- think about how to install new UCA mounts
- after an idea has been come up with, realize you're wrong and do again
- solve the problem and go for it

[2ndroundko]

So are you going to weld the end of the srt10 lca to the end of the van lca? Or is the van lca that much longer allowing the length need to just install the srt10 ball joint? Excellent fab work bay the way, I'm trying to increase my skill set now to be able to comprehend some of the more complex fab operations you are doing here. Good work!

[kingcrunch]

I'll keep it as simple as possible and bolt the cast piece to the van lca sandwiched between the original lca steel and a reinforcement plate.
There will be pics of that as well. I am waiting for the cast ends and van lcas (ordered new Moog parts).

I can play with track width a bit before i make the cuts.

I think going with the SRT-10 parts is a good idea. I doubt i will ever have something like "not enough brakes":

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/img_20160714_131729jpgW700-1.jpg?w=700

That is a 2 Euro coin, which is a hair over an inch in diameter. 2 inch piston diameter times four per caliper.

[kingcrunch]

I think i need to clarify my plan on the LCAs:

The cast iron piece is not integral with the ball joint! The ball joint is pressed into that cast iron/steel (i don't know yet) "eyelet".
Have a look at this video, it'll explain https://youtu.be/LsgZepTXuzg?t=865

On the '85 Vans, the LBJ is still pointing up, just like on the Rams of that era.
On the '05 Ram, the ball joint points down and i need to replicate that to be able to use the '05 SRT 10 spindle.

[kingcrunch]

Tearing apart the truck moves along nicely.
So far only one bolt was stuck (unfortunately in the leaf spring bushing, fought me, got cut off) and i am really happy with the condition of the frame and body.

The frame has been cleaned of all bolt ons, the rear axle is out, the fuel tank has been removed, all ready for fitting the rear suspension.

To be able to do that, i will have to do some measuring to find out where the spring crossmember will have to go. It's future position will create some problems i believe.



More small problems surface with using the Ram SRT10 parts:
While some internet sources say, a 19" wheel fits over the front brakes of an '05 SRT 10, others (and they are in the majority) say the smallest wheel usable is a 20".
So using Ram SRT10 parts will have an influence on a vital parameter of the project: 20" wheels instead of 19".

[bovey]

Hey! Loving the build. You had asked me about what I'm doing for a parking brake.

These arrived over the week-end and they are bad-ass AND they can be made to fit any width rotor.

Full details in my Targa Truck tread, entry 357

129439
129440

peace.

[kingcrunch]

Today's meal? More problems:

At ride height (and that is already higher than desired ride height) i have about 4.1" of uptravel.
Unfortunately, there is only room for a 5.3" spring (installed height) between the frame and the trailing arm.

I could start messing with 1 or 2" blocks and or 1" trailing arm mounts on the axle but that doesn't do much i think.


Anybody have measurements on how high their C10 lowering springs are installed in the truck?

[kingcrunch]

Marc,

that's a cool solution! Thanks for sharing it!
Due to the fact that i will use a complete D60 of a Ram SRT10 i get everything i want in a proven package, so that's solved for me for now until i hit other problems...

[Tincup]

Your parts are on the way.....

[kingcrunch]

Thank you Mike!

[kingcrunch]

Van LCAs came in, a SRT10 spindle and the ball joint mounts have arrived at the customs office... and it looks, it looks like it really - no real knowledge - like a 5" or 6" drop spring will work for my rear suspension.
Will update as soon as i get to it!

[kingcrunch]

Been searching high and low for suitable wheels today and this stuff really drives me mad as heck:

- the '05 Ram SRT10 came with 22" wheels from the factory. Way too big for my '85. 20s are the maximum.
- european manufacturers don't have have ANY wheels for the 5x5.5" bolt pattern, zero, nada, zilch.
- 20x9 factory Ram wheels for '05-10 look like someone barfed up a round chunk of aluminum, not going on my truck
- aftermarket is usually impossible to get any data for, such as wheel loads, etc. which are required by the technical surveillance over here...

But i think i have nailed down two options:

1.
https://factoryreproductions.com/
They make a 20x9, ET25 reproduction wheel of the SRT 10 type wheels.
Bit problematic in my eyes because there's no data available for them. Just a cast in max. wheel load. Some shops in Germany claim they are road legal.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/60DodgeRamSRT10CompetitionGrey-1.jpg


2.
Definitely road legal but will need some makeover (read: media blast and black paint) and are harder to aquire (still nothing compared to '05 Ram SRT10 spindles, these are unobtainium):
2013 Ram 1500 OEM wheels
20x9 ET19

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/sl1600-2.jpg

[kingcrunch]

So FINALLY i got some measurements on the installed height of 5" and 6" lowering springs on C10s.

The 5" springs are 7 1/2", the 6" springs are 6 3/4" installed height.
I got the measurements from Mark at ECE. Top notch (soon to be) customer service!

I will order a set of 6" springs and 1" lowering blocks that will be machined for ride height modifications.

[kingcrunch]

Taking delivery of the drivetrain and rear axle in a few days! Stay tuned for pics!

[kingcrunch]

Full ahead!

More stuff shows up:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/img_20160729_224936jpgW700-1.jpg?w=700

Caliper bolts, hood bumpers (dry rotted) (and new line wrenches, i destroyed the cheap ones i had):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/img_20160729_225026jpgW700-1.jpg?w=700


@Mike:
Will be picking up the spindle and balljoint mounts on monday!

I'll be working on the front suspension in the next few days.

[2ndroundko]

Loving the quality of this build. I'm stuck using junkyard parts this go round. One day when I grow up...

[kingcrunch]

Thank you!

I am trying to use parts that are commonly available. My JY is Ebay.

[kingcrunch]

I went and ruined a new Moog LCA just to cobble something together.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_195521jpgW700-1.jpg?w=700

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_195637-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_195548-1.jpg

Followed by mockup time:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_201552-1.jpg

It looks like the LCA bolt and ball joint are in one plane = the LCA sits level at ride height.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_201718-1.jpg


Had to install the caliper... these look even larger when installed on the truck.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160801_202156-1.jpg

[Tincup]

Looks like everything is going to work out as planned....

[kingcrunch]

I still have no clue how to mount the UCA... It's not something i should think about today, i am having one of these clumsy, "better stayed in bed"-days...

[Tincup]

I still have no clue how to mount the UCA... It's not something i should think about today, i am having one of these clumsy, "better stayed in bed"-days...

I know the feeling.....

[kingcrunch]

Turns out it's not just "clumsy, better stayed in bed" but i came down with a cold. Half of the week lost to headaches and a running nose.

And i couldn't even figure a way to mount the D60 HD (Ram SRT10) with its 3.5" axle tubes to the trailing arms.
I dug up a source for custom made axle perches (CaptainFab over at www.67-72chevytrucks.com) but i still have to:

- find someone to custom make two sets of 1/2" (or 9/16") x 4.125" x 10" u-bolts
- find a way to modify the trailing arms to accept the aforementioned u-bolts

They are like an inch or so wider on the outside than stockers.

More headaches for my running nose. On a positive sidenote: The old 225 engine is sold.
After researching/googling "uca mounting tabs" for hours i have several ideas for the UCA mounts and i ordered a cheap used Ram 1500 UCA over Ebay for mockup.


Signing off for today, heading for my bed. Snuffle.

[Subsea69]

kingcrunch,

I've been following along and it's nice to see someone thinking outside the box on a different platform thatn the norm.
I have a 1979 Dodge (LRE) truck that I want to lower and give a more protouring stance. One thing I noticed in the past
that may need to be addressed on your 85 also is front frame flex. My truck has 275-60-15s all around now and I noticed
when stationary and turning the wheel there is noticeable frame rail flex at the steering box.

Dwayne

[kingcrunch]

Dwayne,

yes, i have noticed that on my '76 W200 and my '85 W250.
There is a factory bracket and repops of that bracket available that triangulates this part of the frame into the front crossmember.
But i don't like the stock steering setup at all and power steering boxes only go down as far as 14:1 ratio.

I hope to be able to put a rack and pinion steering gear in this truck.

Alex

[kingcrunch]

Modded control arm does not work as intended... did not see that before cutting although it was obvious.
Looking at cutting the front suspension crossmember from a '05 Ram and making something from that.
All kinds of other problems with that:

- Track width differs by 3"
- frame width is far from close (the ouside width of the D150 frame is 1" less than the INSIDE width of the 1500s frame).
- 1500s frame is boxed, D150s frame is open

I might have to look at C10 suspension parts again. I still have that C20 lower control arm in my parts stash...

[kingcrunch]

Something's coming up, gotta clean out the hallway.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/20160804_122831-1.jpg

I removed the inner fenders to free up some space here and make removing the 225 easier.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160809_184957-1.jpg

I also found a place that will cut the front section of a 05 Ram 1500s frame off for me. The price is ok. Nothing of that stuff is cheap over here...
And i badly need some kind of progress on the front axle. Kind of an act of desperation.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/sl160046545-1.jpg?w=900

[Tincup]

Too Bad, I have a complete 2005 SRT10 chassis that I would have given you, I can't get rid of it, Probably going to go for scrap..

[GRIMMEY71]

I can't get rid of it, Probably going to go for scrap..

No no no no no noooooooo! That's a shame though

[Tincup]

No no no no no noooooooo! That's a shame though

Come get it, you can have it.....

[kingcrunch]

OH YEAH BABY!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160812_183842-1.jpg


And then i thought, oh shoot, this axle is damn wide.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160812_183907-1.jpg

I have a regular 8-lug D60 stealing space in my shop and i thought this thing was big.
This SRT-10 axle is even bigger. 3.5" axle tubes really do look huge in person.

[kingcrunch]

The rear axle is in fact too wide.

It's 1776mm WMS to WMS. Put 9" wheels with 25.04 offset on there (this is the SRT-10 replica wheel in 20x9") and you have 1955mm from rim to rim.
The trucks wheel arches in their stock form have a spacing of 1942mm, from the inner lip of the wheel arch to the inner lip of the other wheel arch.

I can make it fit but it's still very tight and that's not taking into account any tire on the wheel. I am considering getting the axle shortened by 40mm on ONE side.

I am thinking about moving the pumpkin over to the passenger side to offset the drivers weight.
What do you think about that? I am not really sure it's a good idea yet...

[brawls43]

If you went with some custom or different wheels, you could change up the offset. I know I have some Enkei's on my race car that are 17x9.5" with a +38mm offset, and I had some 17x9 with +45mm on another car. But if you really like those wheels, I could getting it narrowed.

[kingcrunch]

I am looking into rolling the lips of the wheel arches. Should be good enough.
The 5x5.5 bolt pattern really gives me fits though.

There is about two wheels i could use (SRT-10 repop or OEM wheel, both 20x9).
Both are too narrow for the tires i want to run (285/35 R20).

So i am turning back to european manufacturers and these have nothing that might fit the wheel centering on the front wheel bearings and rear axle shafts.
Yay!

I also just found that the Rams hub/wheel bearing does not lend itself to be re-drilled for a 5x4.72" (5x120mm) bolt pattern.

ARGH!

[kingcrunch]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160816_200444-1.jpg

Farewell from the old venerable 225. In preparation of modifying the frame with the front crossmember of that '05 Ram...
Unfortunately, the person i aquire the frame pieces from does not have SRT-10 lower control arms.
And the person i knew had a set, cut them up for my initial idea of modified VAN lcas... sometimes i have less sense than a bag of hammers.

[Tincup]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the dodge lower ( and upper ) control arms are the same.

[kingcrunch]

According to the parts manual for that year, they have different part numbers. I may pick up a pair of "regular" arms anyways. I don't think it makes much sense to go hunting for unobtainium.
The same applies to the '05 SRT-10 spindles... i still could not manage to find a passenger side spindle but have a few aces still up my sleeve.


In the meantime i contacted HotWireAuto for a wiring harness, after i drug out and layed out the factory challenger harness.
The challengers harness is massive and confusing but absolutely complete and undamaged. There's even the LF-antennas for the key-fob included. If i can, i would like to install these in the vehicle.

Turns out that HotWire wants me to use a 09/10 computer, which i can't, because i have to use the original computer to pass emissions testing.

I guess a subscription for TechAuthority is in order. Or at least a FSM for a '15 Challenger...

[Tincup]

According to the parts manual for that year, they have different part numbers. I may pick up a pair of "regular" arms anyways. I don't think it makes much sense to go hunting for unobtainium.
The same applies to the '05 SRT-10 spindles... i still could not manage to find a passenger side spindle but have a few aces still up my sleeve.


In the meantime i contacted HotWireAuto for a wiring harness, after i drug out and layed out the factory challenger harness.
The challengers harness is massive and confusing but absolutely complete and undamaged. There's even the LF-antennas for the key-fob included. If i can, i would like to install these in the vehicle.

Turns out that HotWire wants me to use a 09/10 computer, which i can't, because i have to use the original computer to pass emissions testing.

I guess a subscription for TechAuthority is in order. Or at least a FSM for a '15 Challenger...

I still have the rt spindle, you can have it if you want to pay the shipping, it would be an easy repair.

[kingcrunch]

Don't get rid of it yet. I found a passenger side spindle but it comes as a part of a complete passenger side suspension drop-out for 750 dolares.
I need SRT-10 LCAs anyways, but maybe i can find a set here in Germany.

[kingcrunch]

Obviously, my 6.4 came without a power steering pump. Looks like the donor car had EHPS or Electro Hydraulic Power Steering.
This is an electric pump providing the hydraulic pressure for a "regular" hydraulic assisted steering rack. Yay.

So instead of a pump my engine has an idler where the power steering pump would go on a similar engine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/64lhemiturnkey11-1.jpg

You can see it very clearly on the drivers side of the motor (right side in image) above the A/C-compressor.

I know how to fix this: Mopar RL181778AB 2011-2013 Challenger with 6.4L, just like 340 USD ... used ones seem to be scarce and Rockauto already has the best price for a new OEM Mopar part.
I could sink several tenthousand dollars into this thing right away. I'll try to avoid that...

[Tincup]

Obviously, my 6.4 came without a power steering pump. Looks like the donor car had EHPS or Electro Hydraulic Power Steering.
This is an electric pump providing the hydraulic pressure for a "regular" hydraulic assisted steering rack. Yay.

So instead of a pump my engine has an idler where the power steering pump would go on a similar engine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/64lhemiturnkey11-1.jpg

You can see it very clearly on the drivers side of the motor (right side in image) above the A/C-compressor.

I know how to fix this: Mopar RL181778AB 2011-2013 Challenger with 6.4L, just like 340 USD ... used ones seem to be scarce and Rockauto already has the best price for a new OEM Mopar part.
I could sink several tenthousand dollars into this thing right away. I'll try to avoid that...

Just an FYI, Be careful using a Mopar PS pump, they put out too much pressure for a Ford rack & pinion, or a stock mopar box...

[kingcrunch]

Thanks Mike,
i want to use a modern steering rack, if i can from a Ram, if i can't i'll look into other late model steering racks or even a custom made rack...
And i strongly believe that even these pumps can be decreased in pressure, although this would be the last route i would want to go.
I prefer to be able to use unmodified parts, so i can just replace a damaged unit with a remanufactured part without the need to modify it before usage...

[kingcrunch]

Removed the SRT-10 axles diff cover last night and checked what i got myself: Absolute mayhem in a can!
4.56 gears with a limited slip differential.

There's zero wear on the teeth, no debris on the magnet. That combination should result in a rocket sled. Probably undriveable in the rain...

[Tincup]

I have the rack from the srt-10, not sure if it's worth shipping...

[kingcrunch]

It's probably too wide but please don't throw it away yet.


Yesterdays quest:
I feared i would have to re-wire the engine harness, to move the ECU to the driver side of the engine compartment.
The LX-cars have the engine computer on the passenger side.
On the passenger side in a truck there's the heater box on the firewall, heater hoses (heat!), wiper washer reservoir and not really that much space for a large ECU.

Jumping into cold waters i decided to tear into the engine harness and begun unwrapping it to understand wire-routing and have a look how good my chances would be, to relocate stuff.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160818_202739-1.jpg

It turns out to be a major pita.

But then, solutions came right around the corner.

Measuring from the center of the engine bay to the passenger side inner fender i found a distance of about 31".
Which means that the piece of engine harness that connects the engine to the ECU has to be around 30-31" long.
It was not from the factory, because the wiring takes a strange down-and-upward-route.

Unwrapping helped understanding why it did that and showed that it was not really necessary. Unwrapping also disclosed, why the harness feels so stiff:
The glue from some of the shrink-wrapped connections seeped out and glued some of the wires together. Realnice.
I also had to physically move some of the wiring on the passenger side valve cover further to the back of the engine, there's enough slack in the wires to do that.
But you will have to move the harness-mounting-pins:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160818_202841-1.jpg

For that i ground a needle point on a piece of hard steel wire, so i could lift the zip-tie-like retainer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160818_202929-1.jpg

It's mostly untangled by now and ready to be re-wrapped.
I now have the required length of wire and can place the ECU on the passenger side inner fender.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160818_202756-1.jpg

During that process i also found a solution for the heater hoses.
These would make a loop right where the ECU will be located and the heat from these hoses does not play too well with any kind of computer i think.

To my fortune, the engine brought all the necessary parts with it to do this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160818_202634-1.jpg

Routes the heater hoses neatly over the heater box to the backside of the engine, where the heater hose connections are located. Win!

[kingcrunch]

I decided to try and keep the original crossmember (relieved of the UCA mounts).
The LCA mounts would have to be relocated on the crossmember (or redesigned) to accept the '05 1500s LCAs and act as the front mounting point.
This way all i would have to do is finding a way to install the rear LCA mounting point which could be transferred over from the 1500.

Incidentally the frame rails (well, really thick square tube for the 1500) are the same height... but not much more.
I'll go hunting for some D150 frame rails, from the cab forward.
I need to box the frame in a few places and i need to do it in a fashion that will work with German regulations.

[linkstar69]

Neat build, i also know the challenges of finding performance suspension for mopars

[kingcrunch]

So i began cutting that 1500s chunk of frame and after two hours i got me something to make something else from:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160823_193733-1.jpg

This is one of the control arm mounts, that will be welded to a piece of plate which will be welded to the frame.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160823_193747-1.jpg

And this is the brace, that will be modified quite a bit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160823_193820-1.jpg

About 2.56" will be cut from the middle and the bolt holes need relocating by 1.38" each.
This way the control arm mounts will fit inside the frame rails, just like on the 1500.


And there's more cutting ahead:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160823_194034-1.jpg

I need at least one set of the UCA mounts from that hunk of metal. And if all else fails, the crossmember as well.

[kingcrunch]

For F***s sake, it doesn't work out like that! Dammit.

[kingcrunch]

I don't any more think it will fit.

The track width on a 1500 is 68". Add 2" of wheel offset and you get the front axle width of 70".
Substract 5.3" (total shortening required to get the rearmost of the front suspension crossmembers between the frame rails) and you get
a one inch smaller track width (64.7") compared to the original setup which is 65.7".

All in all it leaves me with a front suspension almost 6" too narrow.

Moving the lower control arms outboard will probably move the location of the spring out of reach of the upper spring cup on the factory crossmember.
Argh!

[Guyt699]

I bet that is aggravating but you'll get it figured out!

[kingcrunch]

After hours of taking measurements and doing calculations (simple stuff) i figure i might have a way to make it fit, IF the spring perches are lining up close enough.
Failed to check if they do... and it's not too easy for me to decide what's good and what is not good alignment:

The Dodge Van lca fits no problem and it's spring perch is 1/2" further outboard. But the 1500s lcas spring perch is another inch outboard.
That's no problem with the 1500s frame because the upper spring perch is attached to the frame at an angle. On the D150s frame it's almost at a right angle to the floor.


I will have to make custom mounts for the LCAs and the UCAs, but i end up with about the same track width i have in the rear: 68" with 55mm offset wheels (2.83" backspacing, provided i understood backspacing correctly).
The bad thing is, i just cut my jig apart. Yay.

[kingcrunch]

For those following along thinking "Why doesn't he just buy a SRT-10 shortbed without an engine and transmission and drop his 6.4/TR6060 in there?":

Weight.
1500s are 500 pounds heavier than my truck. Even with a 6.4, there would be a 300 pound difference...

[2ndroundko]

bruh..... i have no patience for that! sucks that your have such sucky luck with he front suspension.

[elcamino80]

with 55mm offset wheels (2.83" backspacing, provided i understood backspacing correctly).


it depends on your wheels width,
a 9" wide wheel with 55 offset(ET) would make ~7.2" backspace(BS)
a 10" wide wheel with ET55 would make ~7.7"BS

[LT1C1500]

Ugg. The frustrations of building something like this , in Europe no less, must elevate the stress level. You'll get it tho. It's just metal!

[kingcrunch]

... I don't know what to say.

With the LCAs positioned so the track width is allright, there's a misalignment in the spring perches of 4.5" present.
Meaning the LCAs spring perch is 4.5" further outboard than the frames spring perch. Second, on the 1500s frame the spring perch sits at an angle and it is straight on the D150.

I fileted the spring perch of the donor frame but it's even shorter...

Right now i don't know what to do.

[2ndroundko]

do you have legal limitations restricting the use of custom control arms and leaf springs? It seems to me that it would be better for you to build control arms based off the spindle of your choice if your skill set allows. It just seems like a lot of fustration for you is coming along with the attempts to use factory hardware that does not seem to even be economical for you either with the shipping involved for usdm parts.

[kingcrunch]

I'll revisit using the stock Ram lower control arms, with the ends cut off to make room for custom made ball-joint-"pieces".
You remember the cast-iron parts that i used on the VAN-lca?

I am thinking about having these made from real steel with a little modification of the bolt spacing, so they fit the bolt pattern of the strut rods.
The strut rods will be retained with ball-bearing-ends made for hydraulic cylinders.

I will have to work everything else around that...

I recently noticed i don't have the RC (regular cab) Ram SRT-10 spindle, but the QC (quad cab) spindle.
There is a difference between the two, the RC spindle is cast differently and incorporates a 1" drop, while the QC spindle retains stock (i compared it to stock 1500 spindles) height.

[kingcrunch]

I am so wary of the results with the front axle with this project that i don't even trust the measurents i take or calculate and do it over and over again.

I even take measurements from pictures (like comparative: If this number of pixels equals this measurement in inches, there is a factor that can be calculated and used on every other measurement in that picture, as long as the measurement is not taken over a perspective in the picture).


What i worked with was a calculation of 1.42" for the addition of axle in installing the wheel bearing.
I only have LCAs and a spindle, no wheel bearing or rotors yet (too expensive right now, i'm broke).

So i took the 68" track width of the 1500 and went backwards with the measurements i have at hand and calculated that each wheel bearing PLUS the thickness of the rotors flange would add 1.42" in width.
And that gave all kinds of problems.


For example, the 1500s LCAs would have to come very far outboard, resulting in a high misalignment of the spring perches.

On the other hand, the modified VAN-lca-solution would have left me with too narrow a track width.



Now i think i found that i was all wrong.
According to taking several measurements from pictures (i stayed in the same plane of view) the wheel bearings add 2.04" instead of 1.4".

Which gives a go for the VAN-lca-solution.

But with these different numbers i want to go and make sure the 1500s control arms don't accidentally fit after all.

Assuming the rotor flange thickness to be 10mm (0.39") and re-doing the calculations on that base data i have to move the 1500s control arms INBOARD by an inch from what i thought where they would sit.

Leaving me with an estimated 3.5" misalignment (if you want to apply that to the picture, the spring wire is 0.87").

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/08/img_20160825_191430-1.jpg

And i need to know if that takes me back into the ballpark of getting a spring in there without it binding up.
I fiddled with photoshop but it left me with no result...

[kingcrunch]

It might fit, it might fit, it might fit! Gotta check my measurements and put that 1500s control arm on stilts, so it's close to the crossmember but i think we are on to something here!

The rest of the day was spent by unwrapping the Challengers dash harness and beginning to understand its layout.
Slooooow process. 3 hours of unwrapping and understanding.

I need to get that FSM.

Roy, may i send stuff to you again? Techauthority charges almost a 100 dolares to ship a CD to Germany...

[2ndroundko]

Great! i hope it works out this time!

[LT1C1500]

Great! i hope it works out this time!

same here! That's good news!

[kingcrunch]

A milestone has been reached.


I started tearing into the wiring harnesses last week and got most of the unwanted stuff removed.
My milestone was, to thin out the harnesses and still have a running engine. As far as i can read, getting it to crank over is important:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1DR8TgL-io


The dash works as well. It complains about all the stuff that is not present anymore... i hope i can remove all of these from the configuration of the BCM.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160903_161601-1.jpg


Test scenario:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160903_161332-1.jpg


Quite a bunch of wiring removed, more to go. The dash harness is untouched, the engine compartment harness aswell.
No need to modify the engine harness other than relocating it a bit and maybe i will have to make new power cables because these might not fit as good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160903_191745-1.jpg

[GRIMMEY71]

This is reaching hero status with that wiring

[kingcrunch]

I completely removed the ABS today and it still wants to start. There was a little bit of fuel left over in the rails, it burped a weee bit loud :woot:

I absolutely have to remember to fill oil into the engine before i continue farting around like that. A bit of cranking does not hurt...

[kingcrunch]

Today i got too goddamn greedy. My GF always wants me to be quicker at making decisions but when i am quick, i **** things up.


First things first.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160905_140404-1.jpg

Mounting the throttle pedal was so easy it must have been one ingredient for the greedyness...

Bolts to the lower left of the two original holes of the original throttle pedal, drilled a new one, bolted up, almost done.
The pedal is located conveniently but it was too light for my liking.

Even easier fix with parts that are even meant to do exactly that:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160905_140808-1.jpg

Old throttle return spring.

For a bit of adjustment i drilled a few more holes:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160905_141430-1.jpg

And to top it off - you see i got really bored - i added some heat shrink tubing on the spring ends to stop noise:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160905_141823-1.jpg



Yeah.
And then i decided i would continue beeing great and merge the two dash clusters.

Now i don't have a pristine D150 cluster any more and the cluster of the Challenger is destroyed as well.
(The housing, no the electronics.)

I won't show pics of that massacre. Let's just draw the blanket of silence over the topic and let me fill out a check for an IQ3 dash...


And now my effing pasta is oversalted. AAAAARGH!

[andrewb70]

.....

And now my effing pasta is oversalted. AAAAARGH!

We call that "First World Problems." LOL

Andrew

[LT1C1500]

I've done the dash butchering thing before. Just stock up on fiberglass mat and resin.

[kingcrunch]

Same procedure as yesterday. Excel at integrating one component, failing at integrating the instrument cluster.


I hacked a hole in the dash to stick the Start/Stop-button into:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160906_153004-1.jpg

And because that felt a bit flimsy, i made a reinforcement panel from 0.11" aluminum dibond plate i found in my junk pile:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160906_170027-1.jpg

I even cut a relief for the "ears" of the button, so it sits flush with the reinforcement panel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160906_164410-1.jpg

And the final touch:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160906_155450-1.jpg


No pics of the cluster mayhem. I got fed up and will resort to something else until i feel like working on this again.

[andrewb70]

I am digging this project. Do you mind sharing you background? Clearly you are in Germany and I assume you are German? I would love to know more about you and how you got interested in American trucks!

Andrew

[bovey]

One thing.

The Cassette head unit must stay. MUST.

That is all.

Thank you.

[JayinMI]

I see he's in Germany, but his English is on par with someone from the US. I'd also be interested in his background.

Jay

[kingcrunch]

@Marc:
It had quit working on me shortly after i purchased the truck. I opted for a repair (basically bringing bent metal tangs back into shape) instead of replacing it.
I love old stuff like that.

@Andrew&Jay:
I am an IT-specialist, currently working as a project manager in a small (45 peeps including me) business that develops and maintains software for healthcare.
31 years old now (i still don't feel like it), born and raised in the Ruhr-area of Germany. "Born on coal" as we say over here.
Around the age of 12 i got into contact with the interwebs and at some point in time stumbled across the picture of a 1977 W200 truck, lifted, army paint scheme and all.
That stuck.

At the age of 23 i eventually aquired a '76 W200 "Mother Hulda" (got that name from her driving behaviour when i first got her, the rusted up spring packs rode hard as f...) and loved it to death for about seven years.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img2013040400626-1.jpg

Complete rebuild (new frame, cab, bed, front end, rebuilt almost everything, homegrown NV4500 swap with adaption of the NP203 transfer case, three different EFI systems (GM-allright, F.A.S.T-junk, Megasquirt-excellent).

At the end of these seven years i started to loose the fun with that truck.
It had been a problematic project for a while and i started digging the later 80s body style more than the 70s design. Things change.
And also the 80s trucks brought all i was looking for (more stable wiring, improved interior, engine and transmission, emissions equipment, AC, etc.) in a neat package...

When i stumbled across "Mary" (my '85 W250) on Ebay, it was see-love-click-pay. It's in the process of beeing rebuilt in parallel to the D150.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/57-1.jpg

It received a rebuilt A518 four-speed overdrive transmission (my first transmission overhaul ever), it will get new paint, the interior gets re-worked, i repaired the vintage but original radio (turns out an amp had desoldered and all of the buttons degraded) and it's sitting in my fathers garage until i can cough up 6-7 grand for a complete respray including body work (no rust whatsoever).
I was fortunate to learn a lot of stuff with my old '76 truck, like 30 minute door hinge pin replacement...

And i was more of the off-road-go-anywhere type of person. Rock crawling, trail riding and such.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/imgp6707-1.jpg

This was (unfortunately 2007 it lost the fight on rust, frame completely gone, body damaged, etc.) my '93 Mitsubishi Montero with the 3.5l V6.
Dubbed "Lotte". All of the vehicles that i liked have names.


A while ago i got to change my dailly driver (pic below) for a '08 Mercedes Benz C350 (this one has a name too). Fun vehicle. And it tought me, that a fast, good handling car is a lot of fun.
And i kept my former dailly driver as a backup vehicle.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img20121219000191-1.jpg

26 years old and still going strong.

It seems to me now that the aforementioned C350 started subconcious thought processes.
These broke to the surface when i stumbled across Roadkills Muscle truck (especially the brutal sound got me, i don't like Chevies and drag racing that much).
And it all snowballed when i learned about Boveys targa truck (still pure awesomeness), PCHRODS C10 (although too extreme for my humble capabilities) and other awesome machines.

Why not combine several things i love? Complex projects, fabwork, wrenching, trucks and a fast and good handling vehicle.
All the D150 builds i had seen up to then were pretty classic street machines: Lowered stock suspension, stock brakes, stock chassis. Not my cup of tea.

I did not want to buy a Chevy. Ridiculous pricing and i don't like the design that much. I wanted to build a unique D150. And there you got it.



And me english no good is :rolleyes: Thanks guys.

[kingcrunch]

Today was a good day. No effing around with the dash, just purely productive work.

First i picked up my passenger side SRT-10 spindle.
It came with the wheel bearing and i was able to confirm the measurements i took from a picture using a picture editing program.
Now all i have to do is align the spring properly... another "problem".


I continued with the wiring because i was "in the flow".

I hed the (to me) great idea to outline the cab on the shop floor with duct tape. So much easier to get a grasp of where everything goes.
Look for yourself, i got it pretty much layed out and ready for making all the ground connections and shortening/lengthening of wires.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160907_183940-1.jpg

The inside fuse box goes to the back of the cab.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160907_183948-1.jpg

Outside fusebox on the passenger fender, next to the ECU (not shown in pic).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160907_183958-1.jpg

The BCM will be mounted on a bracket riveted to the heater box. I started to like riveting stuff. So much less trouble in fastening stuff to other stuff, lol.
As you can see, i layed out pretty much everything i had, including the pedals (clutch and throttle) and the antenna-box (the "controller" for the key-fob-antennas).
This one will be installed (double sided tape?) on the heater box.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160907_184005-1.jpg

The next step is to throw the original wiring harness on top of that and graft them together...
I would really need the wiring diagrams for that though and Techauthority did not ship my order yet.

I really wanted to separate the high current power cables from the signal cables, just in case one fries...

[linkstar69]

Getting there

[kingcrunch]

Ha, best idea ever to do the above. Because look what was super easy to do yesterday:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_171314-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_171334-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_171343-1.jpg

I made a bracket for the BCM and riveted that bracket directly to the heater box. Mean but it works for now:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_154227-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_160451-1.jpg



Then came the "pita but not hard"-part.
The engine room harness has to pass through a 2" hole in the cab.
It's 2" because i am re-using one of the OEM bushings and it was a pain because i had to make a metal sleeve so i could pass all the wiring through that bushing, which is essentially a bit too small for what i was asking it to do...

Remember to split the sleeve so you can remove it later:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_181001-1.jpg

Then use a bit of silicone spray...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_181018-1.jpg

... and needle nose pliers to do this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_181218-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_181441-1.jpg

Aaaand after doing it twice, because i had the bushing on the harness the wrong way and realized it after finishing the last connection, ta daaaa:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160908_202152-1.jpg

Now i can shoot that 2" hole in the cab and continue...

[kingcrunch]

So i bought the goddam Service Manual CD for 140 Dollarbucks AND IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE WIRING DIAGRAMS. AAAAAAAAAAAARGH! F-WORD!

So i will have to make it a three or seven day thrash with an online subscription.
Gonna re-sell that service CD...

[kingcrunch]

So what i did is buy a 7-day subscription to Techauthorities online portal, which has the wiring diagrams.

And i got about 1/3rd of the wiring done by that in todays 6-hour shift ;D

I identified and re-established (read: plugged the wires back into the connectors) all lighting circuits.
All i have to do with these is run the wires to the bulkhead and connect them to the trucks wiring harness.
Well not really quite as easy, because i am who i am and i do what i do.

The Challenger has a circuit for every lamp, that means there is separate wires for each stop lamp, each headlamp, each park lamp, backups, etc.
The D150 does not, which means that the backups and park share one wire each. The brakes and the turn signals share the same wire, even the same filament in the bulb. Yay.
Aaaaand i am going to build a new frame wiring harness that will reflect all these circuits, actually it's not much more than a extension.
The backup lights will be rededicated to turn signals. Put an orange bulb in them and be done, some LED light "bar" will be the new backup light (i want BRIGHT backup lights).

What else?
Figure out:
- wiper motor connections (almost done)
- washer pump (easy)
- exhaust valve (the electronic exhaust tubing valves, maybe)
- dash? Lol.
- Test it.
Honestly i want to do that tomorrow. Even if it's jerry rigged, i want to see if the BCM runs all the stuff.

[kingcrunch]

As hard as i want to, i am so tired today that nothings gonna happen, except resting.

[kingcrunch]

But still, i can't stop fiddling:

I figured out how to drive the headlights over the BCM with the stock headlight switch, all i need is a rewire of the headlight connector and three resistors.
The Challengers headlight switch is basically a switched resistor array, providing fixed resistances on each switch position. I am duplicating that. Easy as pie.
Well not exactly easy as cake but easy as "calculating the proper values for each resistor and figuring out where they have to go".

So that's down. If you had the option of installing a light/rain sensor, to have automatic wipers and headlights, would you do that?

It's not overly complicated, provided i find a flat spot on the windshield to mount the sensor to. Route three wires to that spot, connect and be done.

[kingcrunch]

One down, several more to go:

https://youtu.be/y35Bg7FT2lM

https://youtu.be/1cTmGNY_wAs


I had to rebuild the wiper linkage... all bushings gone, replaced with washers and cotter pins...




The resistors for the headlight switch showed up.
I also ordered a pair of tail light lamps (LED modules, in fact) to destroy them.
I need to find out how they actually work to be able to make a module that can drive incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs.

And i ordered a used wiper motor to figure out how to drive the stock wiper motor... only to find that i had the sense wire in the wrong position of the connector on the BCM.
Yay...


And these are pretty much self explaining:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/scatpackemblems-1.jpg

[kingcrunch]

Taking baby steps.

From now on i got's da control over da light and ole electrical darkness.

A couple of resistors, a few hours of fiddling and the ole light switch has been fitted with multiplex switching capabilities.

https://youtu.be/Ota7e4cpqfI

[kingcrunch]

I just ordered 690ft. of wire to continue building the body wiring harness, different colors and gauges of course.

[kingcrunch]

Small change in game plan:

I am going to close off the large square and awkward hole in the firewall that used to hold the original bulkhead connector.
It's not exactly easy to seal (no seal between connector housing and firewall) and awkward and i would have to source the exact spade connectors for it to rewire it.
Not gonna happen.

I have a few left over grommets from the Challengers wiring harness.
I am thinking about riveting (with liberal use of body sealer) a plate into the square hole, punch a round hole in there and make way for a regular rubber grommet.
Since none of the original wiring will be left in the truck, there is no need to re-use the original 31 year old bulkhead connector...

Aaaaand this leaves me with good spares for my all-original (except for the 4-spd auto transmission and engine side A/C bits, SD709 swap with all new home-crimped hoses) '85 W250.

[kingcrunch]

Small change in game plan:

I am going to close off the large square and awkward hole in the firewall that used to hold the original bulkhead connector.
It's not exactly easy to seal (no seal between connector housing and firewall) and awkward and i would have to source the exact spade connectors for it to rewire it.
Not gonna happen.

I have a few left over grommets from the Challengers wiring harness.
I am thinking about riveting (with liberal use of body sealer) a plate into the square hole, punch a round hole in there and make way for a regular rubber grommet.
Since none of the original wiring will be left in the truck, there is no need to re-use the original 31 year old bulkhead connector...

Aaaaand this leaves me with good spares for my all-original (except for the 4-spd auto transmission and engine side A/C bits, SD709 swap with all new home-crimped hoses) '85 W250.

[kingcrunch]

Cut six feet of superflous length from the cab wiring harness today, re-established the connections, finished some loose ends and i am looking forward to build the frame harness this weekend.

I am also doing some research about using late model Ram door latches as a replacement for the manual door latches on my truck.
The wiring diagrams indicate they have similar wiring compared to the Challengers door latches and they have the 3-bolt bolt pattern.
Unfortunately this pattern has been turned around so the single bolt is below the striker, compared to the '85 trucks doors...

It's all just sheet metal here, so i am not too scared about making it fit. I am not going through all the hassle without having power door locks in the end.

[JayinMI]

The newer Chrysler door latches have the door "pin switches" built in to them as well, so the truck will know what door is open. At least you aren't doing a Ford because (as usual) they do it backwards to everyone else. lol (Most vehicles throw a negative or positive when open...Newer Fords have a closed circuit that goes to open when the door is open.

Jay

[kingcrunch]

It's complicated enough the way i am doing it, lol.

For example:
I just learned that i need to make a bridge between the two wires for the "hood ajar" function of the BCM... or integrate a "hood ajar" switch somewhere into the core support.
I could find custom solutions for everything on this vehicle but i guess keeping it simple will let me complete it much earlier.

[JayinMI]

You don't have to do anything crazy for that.

You can buy BMW-style pin switches with rubber boots on them and just connect it to the "hood ajar" wire.

https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Plated-Switch-Polycarb-Plunger/dp/B001TQPM6Q

Should be Purple/lt blue at the BCM in the black 24 pin plug, pin 11...unless you have an older Challenger computer. I looked at a '15.
It just needs to see a ground when the hood is open.

Jay

[kingcrunch]

Been off the project for 1 1/2 days this week, the job had priority.
Yesterday evening i began installing the chassis harness (basically just routing long wires and figuring out where to cut off the excess wires), the front end wiring (same thing).
I use AMP super seal (similar to Weatherpak) connectors. A while ago i bought a kit of them in different configurations.

I also began wrapping parts of the harness.
I am using black PVC tape to wrap up the parts that are behind the dash nice and tight and then put a thick padded tape on there with the wraps spread apart like 1-2" so i don't use as much tape.

[kingcrunch]

I had one of those "it might fit"-moments again. But i did not f it up this time - i think i really got a solution to get the turn signal / high beam stalk mounted.

See for yourself and judge :D

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160924_194630-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160924_194639-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160924_202300-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160924_202310-1.jpg

I know it's rough. That's why i'll do another one. I had to let one die to get the measurements and positioning right.
Here's the "real deal":

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160924_204927-1.jpg

It sits a bit closer to the steering wheel and is clocked a bit closer to the 10pm position.
And i did not start on it because it was like 9pm and i got tired... been working on the truck for like eight hours today.

[kingcrunch]

And yes, that's the housing of a AT column. Why? Because i was thinking i could put a nice three-stage shift light where the gear indicator used to sit.

[kingcrunch]

More pics of more steering column hacking:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160927_180256-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160927_180432-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160927_180506-1.jpg

This is proto three, red in color. The color does not mean anything, i had it, it was painted by the PO, it got hacked up.
Now i have a solid solution to mount the stalk in the housing, feels good.

"All" that's left to do is build a turn signal return cam with an integrated horn contact ring. Yay.

For stuff like this, i could really use a milling machine...

[kingcrunch]

Them videos:

Turn signal stalk testing
https://youtu.be/hqcWOxzdAiQ

And now with them return of turn signals. Really proud of that ;)

https://youtu.be/jP-5PKRu8uc

[kingcrunch]

I will have to look into building the chassis soon, i took delivery of the 6" drop coils from Early Classic (Chevy stuff) and the trailing arm bushings.
I intentionally went with rubber bushings for compliance. This thing will be hard enough once it's done... and i don't consider poly bushings a good replacement.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160928_175826-1.jpg

[kingcrunch]

I think that's so awesome:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160929_172958-1.jpg


And at the end of lots of making of waste parts, i think i am close to beeing done. All i need is a 50cm flat flex cable and additional wiring to the hazard switch and horn.
Oh and i need to figure out, how the BCM wants its horns honked.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160930_181909-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160930_181948-1.jpg

And i also made a different approach for the turn signal return cam. This is easier to build and it does not slip off the wheel stub.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160930_182106-1.jpg

[kingcrunch]

I built this contrapment:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161001_161633-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161001_161641-1.jpg

It locates everything in its stock Ram 1500 specs, adjusted to the aproximate ride height of my truck so i can just push it under the engine crossmember and start building frame attachments.

Well, no.

In stock form the inner axis of the LCA of the Ram 1500 is on a 2° incline with the rear of the control arm beeing lower.
It is also angled inward 7° in relation to center line, with the rear bushing sitting further inboard than the front bushing.

None of that works with my D150s frame.
Also i can not set the LCA level (which is something you want to have) and have my preferred ride height.

Gotta think about it, make some adjustments and see where that takes me.
All of this is scrap metal that we have in the shop, so no biggie if i have to cut it up and make another one.

[JayinMI]

I think that's so awesome:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/img_20160929_172958-1.jpg


And at the end of lots of making of waste parts, i think i am close to beeing done. All i need is a 50cm flat flex cable and additional wiring to the hazard switch and horn.
Oh and i need to figure out, how the BCM wants its horns honked.

There's a relay in the underhood fusebox (in the Challenger, it's on the right fenderwell) It outputs a +12v signal to the horns. The horn relay is controlled by the BCM, so I assume it sends a ground pulse to the relay to trigger it, but I have never used that to trigger them. The wiring color website I use for alarm/remote start wiring tells me to use the positive wire (output from the relay) and isolate away from the relay when interfacing with it. I assume you have a wiring diagram of the BCM that will tell you what color wire does what regarding the horn.

Jay

[kingcrunch]

From the top of my head, i don't think the '15 Challenger works that way (apply ground to something to trigger the relay).
The steering wheel communicates with the SCCM over four wires. And i guess two of these are for the air bag charge.

I will let you know how it works, once i figured it out.


In the meantime, spot the difference:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161002_183534-1.jpg

I had the LCA angled to the wrong side in relation to the centerline of the frame... bozo move.
No everything wanted to go where i first saw it going when i mocked up the LCA on a bucket and just shoved that under the frame...

Hearthrobbingly i began cutting the bump stop off the frame and drilling out the rivets of the original LCA mount.
These had to be drilled out to .35" and on the next metric drill size 10mm/.4" the rivet heads just sheared off.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161002_191701-1.jpg

Yay!
These have been: A - larger and B - gnarlier on my '76 W200.
And they fought harder than they did on this purdy frame. Ignore the chisel marks on the LCA mount, i thought i would have to hammer and chisel the rivet heads off until i tried the .4" drill bit.

My arms still hurt though, the position i had to hold the drill at was not really comfortable or endurable for very long...

My small 270W B&D drill, made in the 50s in England, went through the rivets really well.
My gramps had the exact same drill in his small basement shop. Good memories.

[JayinMI]

From the top of my head, i don't think the '15 Challenger works that way (apply ground to something to trigger the relay).
The steering wheel communicates with the SCCM over four wires. And i guess two of these are for the air bag charge.

I will let you know how it works, once i figured it out.

Kinda what I was trying to explain. It's not like a normal car where there's a negative horn wire in the column. There's some sort of data bus that talks to the BCM, but from the BCM to the underhood fuse/relay box I think it's still just a wire triggering a relay between the two.

Jay

[kingcrunch]

Yes, the power side of the horn circuit is a single wire switching 12V to the horns over a relay... In the end i could just build my own horn circuit but we'll see, can't be too hard to use the Challengers setup.

[kingcrunch]

Shoot...
I thought i had bought tail lamp "led lamp" inserts... it turns out it was just a pair of license lamps i bought.
Not reading the Ebay offer properly, i guess.
Anyhow, i needed one of those.

I was able to snag a complete tail light (only need one side to disect the circuit board) and a wrecked headlight for cheap, which means each one is around 200$ incl. shipping to Germany.
400$ in parts that i will have to destroy to understand them. Great.

[2ndroundko]

your R&D on this truck is going to be more expensive than the actual truck when its all said and done.

Suspension jig looks good BTW glad to see your coming up with some solutions.

[kingcrunch]

I am only three or four grand deep in the "trash" department right now... i hope to be able to sell the Viper parts (still have knuckles and discs up for sale).

[kingcrunch]

More info on the "horn" topic, from the FSM:
"The horn system components operate on battery current received through non-switched fused B(+) circuits so that the system will remain operational, regardless of the status of the ignition switch (Keyless Ignition Node/KIN). The Body Control Module (BCM) controls the output of battery current to the horns through a horn relay located within the front Power Distribution Center (PDC). The BCM controls the relay based upon internal programming as well as electronic message inputs received from the Steering Column Control Module (SCCM) or the Radio Frequency Hub Module (RFHM) over the Controller Area Network (CAN) data bus.

The vehicle operator can control typical horn system signaling through the horn switch contacts within the hub cavity of the steering wheel. When the Driver AirBag (DAB) trim cover in the center of the steering wheel is depressed, it provides a hard wired analog input to the SCCM. The SCCM then sends an electronic horn switch status message to the BCM over the CAN data bus."


But according to the wiring diagram, it's even better than that:
The horn circuit is hardwired to the BCM, meaning the SCCM does not do anything with that signal, it just passes it through over a separate trace on the SCCM circuit board.
The BCM has a direct connection for the horns, switch that to ground and the horns should honk.

[kingcrunch]

Been working on attaching the LCA to the engine crossmember this weekend. It almost broke my brain. I have very few ideas on how to do this.
It all boils down to frenching the LCA into the bottom plate of the crossmember so i can have a more level LCA and a lower front ground clearance.

How important is a level LCA at ride height?

It would be a little easier for me if the frame side sits a little lower (in relation to ground) than the knuckle side.
I know how to angle the UCA to cope with camber and track width changes.

[kingcrunch]

Just learned from Forgeline that i can not get the CF1 wheel in the bolt pattern configuration i want. Yay. Never trust what any distributor will tell you.

[Domer]

Its not so much a level lower control arm, as it is the imaginary line drawn from the LCA mount center to the pivot point in the lower balljoint. The more that is off, the more drastic the changes to your Instant centers, and your Roll center.

[kingcrunch]

Witness me cutting up 200 dollars worth of tail light:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161013_171152-1.jpg

Forget the heat gun. Use real tools instead.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161013_172503-1.jpg

And that's when stuff really went snowballin' on me. One circuit board after the other came out of this thing like there is no end!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161013_174149_edit-1.jpg

And i could not help myself and played with it a bit. Man these LEDs are bright... and yes, i totally needed the circuit board to understand what's going on.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161013_175955-1.jpg

[2ndroundko]

So how do you plan to retro fit the lights into the stock housing?

[kingcrunch]

I don't actually plan to do that :D Sounds weird but here's why:
I want this vehicle to be a totally dailly driver capable race truck. To me that means i have to reduce custom built stuff that can't be re-created in an instant.

The custom crossmembers i won't break, if so, wait a few days for a new replacement.
If i put the truck into a wall and kill a tail or headlight? That's downtime, because i will have to re-create a parts- and labour-intensive custom-one-off-lamp.
The carbon fiber fenders, hood, bumper? The company i hired to do that keeps the moulds and can re-create up to 80 parts from that.


Talking about carbon fiber parts, the guy that runs said company (Alsatek from Germany, they make a lot of custom, one-off, racing, development (for Audi for example), etc. parts in really beautiful quality) had a great idea that i would like to toss in and discuss:


He told me that current BMWs have carbon fiber roofs.

Now what if we replaced the outer skin of the roof with a carbon fiber skin and glue that on?

[andrewb70]

If you're doing a lot of carbon parts, why not the roof? Although, on a truck, the roof is fairly small.

Andrew

[kingcrunch]

But very high up in the air, which was my contractors whole point, lowering the center of gravity by taking weight off the top of the cab.
My concerns are more along the lines of stability. I know the Dodge cabs are not the stiffest and cutting out the whole outer skin of the roof... i don't want the whole cab to collapse.

Modern body panel glue is damn strong but i wanted to know what others think about it.

[kingcrunch]

Understand electronics i never will.
I need a microscope... or at least a magnifying glass. I hate SMD components when it comes to indentifying them. And i hate black solder mask, that stuff really sucks big time!

[kingcrunch]

Forgeline doesn't answer my questions any more... just great.
Looking into making the 22" OEM wheels fit, because i am SO FED UP with all of these aftermarket people not willing to communicate. Really sad.

EDIT:
I have been damn angry when i wrote this, should have calmed down before writing.
I am now in contact with Forgeline. The delay was probably caused by them attending the SEMA.

And BTW. the 22" wheels with 305/35 R22 are around 800mm or 31.6" in diameter which is a larger tire than i have on my W250 offroad truck!
Doesn't fit that way.

[vwmopar]

Forgeline doesn't answer my questions any more... just great.
Looking into making the 22" OEM wheels fit, because i am SO FED UP with all of these aftermarket people not willing to communicate. Really sad.

I here that. Companies sure like our business but don't want to do the leg work to get it anymore.

[kingcrunch]

A set of four custom made, three piece, road legal wheels is like 16.5k USD by a German manufacturer. The major cost of that is the testing procedure for making them road legal.
A set of custom made, probably road legal, Forgelines is 7500 USD, which i would pay immediately.
And a set of OEM 10x22" SRT-10 wheels is round about 5000 USD (over here), maybe cheaper than that. But 22s look absolutely silly on this truck, tires are really expensive (800 a piece) and it would raise the truck by another inch compared to the 20s.

Right now i'd rather spend the 16.5k to get something real. Is there a Forgeline representative on this board who i could talk to?

[kingcrunch]

**** this.
I am not sending another "Maybe you did not receive my last email about my last email you didn't answer.".

It'll look dumb with 22s but to be it. Trying to find a set of OEM Ram SRT10 22x10s.

EDIT:
Was really angry when i wrote this, should have calmed down before writing.
Managed to get into contact with Forgeline again, we are working on it.
The 22s are not an option because they are so large, it'll have as much belly clearance as my W250 offroad truck.



Lets continue with something productive here.

I tore apart the headlight and the tail lamp i bought and after round one of massive headaches around midweek, here comes round two of monstrous headaches. It's circuit board is much more complicated and more compact which makes it harder to see the traces.
It turns out that all green solder mask (headlight circuit board) is about as bad to trace out as black solder mask (tail lamp circuit board).

Bits and pieces of the headlight:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161020_184357-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161020_184409-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/10/img_20161020_184419-1.jpg

I now understand how the fault signal is created in the tail lamp, what message it transports and i will proceed to understand how the headlight does its thing.
What i already know is, that i can not use the wiring configuration i already figured out.
Instead i will put a set of relays in the fuse boxes locations where the HID (which my donor Challenger did not have) relays would go.
Then i will have the BCM drive the relays and figure out the wiring to the headlights from there on.

The fault signal will be done in a single little stub box, no real fault control here.
I'll try to design and spin my own circuit boards for this task, maybe i can just put the headlight and tail lamp fault signal generator in a little box inside the truck.
Should be much safer from collision damage than in the engine compartment...

[kingcrunch]

Did something completely different in the last few days. I stayed in bed to get rid of the flu so i could head back into the shop this week.


Yesterday was the first day in the shop for about two weeks and i am glad i went, because i learned that i might not have to cut the C10 trailing arms to get 3.7" u-bolts in there.
I just hope the repop arms from Dynacorn have the same amount of wiggle-room between the bolt holes.

[kingcrunch]

On wednesday i met with my shop buddy - fitter by trade - and talked about all of the modifications i want to make to the front suspension and rear trailing arm suspension.
Basically, with a few modifications (like re-designing the trailing arm crossmember) he gave me a thumbs up from the perspective of a person that has built serious stuff, has experience and the papers to prove it.
He is basically fit to work as a welder in a nuclear power plant. So much for his credibility.

We talked about the cage as well and there was no thumbs up for my ideas. Will have to think about that stuff again and talk to a manufacturer.

Tomorrow i will try to accomplish building a welding jig for the LCA pockets in the crossmember.

[kingcrunch]

305/35 R22 are way too large. Back to the drawing board. Thinking about going 9" wide rims, because available... not liking the idea.

[kingcrunch]

Thinking about making a cutout in the firewall and moving the engine back further... Any thoughts on that?

[kingcrunch]

Got into contact with Forgeline over Twitter.
Hoping to get somewhere, they are at SEMA right now, might have to do with the no-reply-situation.
Wish me luck.

[andrewb70]

Got into contact with Forgeline over Twitter.
Hoping to get somewhere, they are at SEMA right now, might have to do with the no-reply-situation.
Wish me luck.

This time of year is extremely busy for most aftermarket companies. SEMA is this week and PRI is in the first part of December. It's not an excuse for not getting back to you, but it certainly explains some of the delay.

Andrew

[kingcrunch]

I am now in contact with Forgeline and sent an email to Mark Schetter, who is also a representative of Forgeline on this board.
Will keep you up to date!

[kingcrunch]

Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the mess you made and ask yourself: "Does that really take me anywhere and is it worth the effort?".

I was in that part of the thought process for quite a while now regarding the electronics of the truck and today i have been pushed in the right direction.
Mother Mopar loves me:

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/crate.html

They released a complete engine management kit using the stock PCM. Emissions legal stuff, can use it over here! YAY!
For a complete, standalone engine management kit the price is hot!
I have paid 1400 bucks for systems consisting of a hacked GM ecm, a small wiring harness and a modded LA distributor...
And i once paid 1600 USD for that ultra crappy EZ-EFI V1 system...

Even though it was fun to wrestle through the wiring harness of the Challenger and understanding how everything works, finding solutions for the massive wall of problems, etc. it makes the vehicle way too complex.
Please understand that i am ceasing any work on the conversion of the Challenger wiring right now and start saving up for this standalone kit.

I will refurbish and improve the factory wiring harness of the truck and call it done... Good thing i still have parts to revert the hacked up steering column back to OEM.

[kingcrunch]

Been in contact with Mark Schetter from Forgeline and so far it looks like they can make the CF1 monobloc wheel fit my truck!
Now all i need to measure is if the LCA will allow enough clearance to the wheel: The 20x10 wheel is about 11" wide overall... which also makes the whole chassis a bit wide for the front and rear wheel arches.

[Tincup]

Pretty sure that the new ECU from Ma Mopar only works on 2014 and up engines. Not sure what year your engine is.....

[kingcrunch]

Mine is a 2015, so yes, that will work. I have to ask them a few things about the emissions stuff ... but then again, there is not much other than a solenoid for the engine to pull the fuel vapor from the fuel tank.

[kingcrunch]

News from the clusterf... of a Dodge truck from Germany.


I have been dating the calculator (fancy scientific thingy, not the four banger kind) heavily lately and here is what it whispered into my ears:

I can have my 20x10s with the stock 19.05mm ET (dunno how to calculate backspacing, i just don't understand it yet).
I would also like to retain the stock Ram 1500s 68" track width for reasons of beeing able to use the stock steering rack, not having to shorten the rear axle and such amenities.

The hitch is, that i will definitely have to widen the rear fenders by at least 30mm (1.18") per side.
I will also have to get rid of the inner wheel arch lip to clear the 305s on full stuff. Or widen it more than 30mm.

Since it's a truck bed with lots of metal around, it should work without too much cutting.


The sheet metal around the front is actually wider than the rear by 60mm (2.36") overall, with the LCAs sitting level it will fit after i get rid of the lip of the wheel arch.
This will eventually happen when the fender skins are replaced with carbon fiber equivalents.


Kind of "Yay" and kind of "Meh"... can't decide yet. Maybe i should just try and drill out the spot welds on a rear bed sidewall and try pulling on it gently?

[brawls43]

I really like this calculator, for showing both backspacing and offset.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

[kingcrunch]

Thank you!
That just helped me figuring out i need even more room. Bwahahahaha.

11mm (0.43") per side on the front and 41mm in total on the rear per side plus some clearance.

[kingcrunch]

I am close to giving up for a while:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/img_20161115_194804-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/11/img_20161115_194815-1.jpg

[kingcrunch]

After a lot of debating with myself, i think large coilover shocks with custom built shock towers are the way to go.

"Just" need to find out if these can be made road legal.

[kingcrunch]

Will have to look into 78-79 Ford truck coil towers. They might just do the trick.

[kingcrunch]

One step closer:

This is the steel bumper, ready to make the tool.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/modell_stoc39ffc3a4ngerdodge4-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/modell_stoc39ffc3a4ngerdodge5-1.jpg

The tool beeing made:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/formenbau2-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/formenbau3-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/formenbau4-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/formenbau1-1.jpg

The finished tool to make laminated, light weight bumpers for Dodge trucks!
We can make about 80 bumpers from that single tool, who wants one?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/werkzeug_stoc39ffc3a4nger_dodge1-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/werkzeug_stoc39ffc3a4nger_dodge2-1.jpg

[bovey]

So. Jealous. AMAZING.

[vwmopar]

I want one. How much?

[kingcrunch]

They run about 550EUR (which is 575$) plus shipping. I don't make any money with these and i do not intend to do so.

[moregrip]

very nice! keep the updates coming!!

[kingcrunch]

Bumper No 1 is done:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/dodge_stoc39ffc3a4nger_vorne1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/dodge_stoc39ffc3a4nger_vorne3-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/dodge_stoc39ffc3a4nger_vorne4-1.jpg

It shaves 13.6kg (29.98" lbs) off the front end of the truck.

[linkstar69]

Looks great

[kingcrunch]

Picked it up this weekend. Holy cow. The tool and the carbon fiber bumper together are lighter than the stock steel bumper...
And this is the heavier foam reinforced version of the carbon bumper.

Alright.
With this down, i can get to the next carbon parts which will be the fenders...

I still do not have a solution for the front suspension thingamajig...