Pro touring suspension street manners

[Nilater]

Thinking of upgrading the suspension on my 69 CAMARO FROM Hotchkis drop springs and Ridetech adjustable shocks to coil overs and a Quadralink system. What kind of ride can I expect on the street vs. my current setup ? Interested in your experiences......

[badazz81z28]

Interested here too. I rode in a 70s Camaro with all ride tech and didn't even know it. Felt stock to me.

[drktrrs]

I think for your coilovers it has a lot to do with spring rate and shock setup. On my normal setup (autocross) I run a #1200 front spring and its pretty stiff and rough on the street but when I switch to an #850 for Goodguys I noticed a considerably more comfortable difference on the street. You may just have to try out numerous spring rates in order to come up with what you feel is comfortable and also accommodates whatever it is that you do with your car.

[yellow1098Greg]

Interesting topic....Iv been planning on the level 2 ridetech setup as well...while I plan on autoxing in the future sometimes as well, the car will be on the street 90% of the time....so it is an expensive upgrade to not be used to its potential most of the time and only good for a fraction of the cars usage....so I was hoping that it would give the car more of a modern sports car response feel with the right adjustment.....not to mention that if you plan to add big power to the car(which I do) the 4link and the tubular arms with some sub frame connectiors would do much better than the stock stuff at handling it...
Of course to even if a lot of us won't admit it, some of the appeal is it gives it a killer stance....

Hope this thread gets a lot of feedback!

[hotrodneb]

X3 I am running Hotchkis drop springs and do mostly in town and some highway driving. My car will not see any track. Same setup as OP and it does not fit my taste. I have been noticing modern cars with lowered stances, minimal wheel travels, and much better ride. I grant that they are all running strut suspension, but something comparable is what I am also working for.

I know the front Hotchkis springs are 600# front and the rears are a progressive 150-180. I removed the "overloads" on my rear springs to in-effect make a 150# constant rate spring, and noticed modest improvement. I would think a progressive rate in the rear from stock-150# and progressive in the front 300-600 would be ideal for my application, but I would bet that is impossible.

[gscherer78ta]

If you're in a car with a subframe foundation and are not running subframe connectors- that should be the first thing you add. The modern cars all have a very rigid foundation so that the frame isn't moving, only the suspension. I was amazed at the difference in my 78 TA's ride when I added subframe connectors. My only thought was "why didn't I do this earlier". After the foundation is rigid, you can tune your ride properties with shocks and spring rates to get the road feel you want. An adjustable shock will make this process much easier, a little more cost up front but, you won't have to buy another set of shocks to get stiffer valving or softer valving if you want to go either of those routes.

[71RS/SS396]

Unless your spring rates are crazy stiff, the shocks will have the biggest impact on ride quality.

[hotrodneb]

That is my next step....a short drive with NO shocks. I will share my findings.
Hotchkis rear springs are a variable 150-180#
Hotchkis front springs are 600#
Stock F-body are 115# rear and 360# front

Is that "crazy" stiff?? I don't know, but will find out soon if it is the issue I am fighting. MOST certainly a lowered car will require an increase in spring rate. I have said in other posts, I am one who is trying to find a modern production car ride more than a modern PERFORMANCE car ride.

[hotrodalex]

If you're in a car with a subframe foundation and are not running subframe connectors- that should be the first thing you add. The modern cars all have a very rigid foundation so that the frame isn't moving, only the suspension. I was amazed at the difference in my 78 TA's ride when I added subframe connectors. My only thought was "why didn't I do this earlier". After the foundation is rigid, you can tune your ride properties with shocks and spring rates to get the road feel you want. An adjustable shock will make this process much easier, a little more cost up front but, you won't have to buy another set of shocks to get stiffer valving or softer valving if you want to go either of those routes.

Agreed - The biggest improvements in ride quality that I've seen are from stiffening up the chassis. Doesn't matter what shocks and springs you have if everything else is a wet noodle.

edit: Also, the biggest hit in ride quality came from my large front swaybar.

[parsonsj]

I've put in a few Quadralinks, with single adjustable Ridetech shocks and the base DSE shock (and sub-frame connectors, of course). The ride feels modern -- comfortable, stiff around a turn, with no hint of spring hop.

[hotrodneb]

OK.....now THIS is interesting.

As an experiment I removed the shocks from my car and ......had the MOST COMFORTABLE drive to date!
Understand please I am seeking a modern safe production ride, and not a modern performance ride quality.

With the exception of being a little light over bumps, I would say it was nearly as comfortable as my Eldorado I drove 450m today.

---When I say "light", I mean light. It didn't do crazy like you think it would have. I suspect the high spring rates I have caused the spring to settle down quickly, while a lower spring rate would have bounced like we are accustomed to seeing.

Onward to the destination.

[hotrodneb]

UPDATE---

OK seriously...if you are having ride trouble, call RideTech. 20m on the phone with Josh and my solution will be here in a week.

Well done RT.

[cpd004]

Just my experience with Ridetech Level 2 on my 71. I told them my goal was to have the car ride as close as possible to my G8. I talked to them at Power Tour 2 years ago and they assured me it would be better than the G8 despite the archaic platform of the 2nd gen. I broke down and bought a kit recommended by them and while it rides ok, it definitely isn't to my liking. The car will probably never see an autocross, but the suggested rates on the springs IMO are just too soft. I have 600 in front and 185 in the rear. Both are nearly fully compressed, with maybe an inch to go before running out of thread. I have a slight slope to get into my driveway and the car will not go up into it. The rear inside tire will hit the inner tub and stop the car immediately. It's very embarrassing to have to get the jack out. I've been back and forth and have been told that the rates are correct. That may be, but they aren't working for me. I've been waiting on a response once again on going up. Several people have mentioned that they tend to suggest rates on the soft side. The way it is now is not confidence inspiring at all. I'm hoping we can get passed this as I've been back and forth the entire summer.

[gscherer78ta]

Just my experience with Ridetech Level 2 on my 71. I told them my goal was to have the car ride as close as possible to my G8. I talked to them at Power Tour 2 years ago and they assured me it would be better than the G8 despite the archaic platform of the 2nd gen. I broke down and bought a kit recommended by them and while it rides ok, it definitely isn't to my liking. The car will probably never see an autocross, but the suggested rates on the springs IMO are just too soft. I have 600 in front and 185 in the rear. Both are nearly fully compressed, with maybe an inch to go before running out of thread. I have a slight slope to get into my driveway and the car will not go up into it. The rear inside tire will hit the inner tub and stop the car immediately. It's very embarrassing to have to get the jack out. I've been back and forth and have been told that the rates are correct. That may be, but they aren't working for me. I've been waiting on a response once again on going up. Several people have mentioned that they tend to suggest rates on the soft side. The way it is now is not confidence inspiring at all. I'm hoping we can get passed this as I've been back and forth the entire summer.


Sorry to hear of your troubles. It has me wondering if there isn't something else at play though. I have a 78 TA, all factory geometry and parts except springs and shocks. I have 750# front springs with Viking double adjustable shocks and 120# rear leafs with Bilstien HD shocks and I spend 80% of my time autocrossing. On the street the ride is very firm, even on the shocks lightest setting. I made choices for the benefit of autocross and get what I get on the street. While the ride is firm, it's a very long way from the jarring 70's 1 ton pickup truck ride.

I would be happy to trade you my 750# springs for your 600# springs.

[bret]

Just my experience with Ridetech Level 2 on my 71. I told them my goal was to have the car ride as close as possible to my G8. I talked to them at Power Tour 2 years ago and they assured me it would be better than the G8 despite the archaic platform of the 2nd gen. I broke down and bought a kit recommended by them and while it rides ok, it definitely isn't to my liking. The car will probably never see an autocross, but the suggested rates on the springs IMO are just too soft. I have 600 in front and 185 in the rear. Both are nearly fully compressed, with maybe an inch to go before running out of thread. I have a slight slope to get into my driveway and the car will not go up into it. The rear inside tire will hit the inner tub and stop the car immediately. It's very embarrassing to have to get the jack out. I've been back and forth and have been told that the rates are correct. That may be, but they aren't working for me. I've been waiting on a response once again on going up. Several people have mentioned that they tend to suggest rates on the soft side. The way it is now is not confidence inspiring at all. I'm hoping we can get passed this as I've been back and forth the entire summer.

Ride quality is certainly a subjective thing. What I might consider "acceptable" or "great" ride quality may not appeal to you at all. Handling performance can be quantified via testing on a given course, but even then you will need to make decisions on what performance criteria is most important to you when tuning shocks, springs, and swaybars.

On your particular application [71 Camaro, right?] those spring rates are a good starting point for a car that is intended for a lot of street use. We can certainly supply firmer springs...we have springs from 125# to 1100# on the shelf. A couple items to look at before changing springs:

1. where are your shock settings? [assuming you have adjustable shocks]
2. tire pressures?
3. alignment settings?
4. swaybar size?

If your coilovers are adjusted that high you are likely correct in thinking that you need a firmer spring rate. Rodney Mason at our shop [[email protected]] can help with determining how much more spring rate is needed. OR...if you have corner weights and are willing to do some basic measuring, our online spring rate calculator can get you extremely close to an ideal spring rate. http://www.ridetech.com/tech/spring-rate-calculator/

[cpd004]

I 100% agree Bret about the ride being subjective. I expressed what I was looking for and was told what will get me there. I have the Level 2 with musclebar. The alignment is not dialed in anymore as the car has been raised and lowered so many times looking to get the height and ride right. I understand that alignment has bearing on ride, but was told that we need to get issues resolved as I didn't want to keep spending more money on another alignment.

One issue that I didn't mention is that for some reason, my front shocks only have 9 clicks of adjustment. I sent them back and they should be with you guys. I'm not sure what is going to happen with them. I've been back and forth with Rodney and have included a note asking for a higher rate despite being assured that what I have now is right. I'm just waiting to see what the next step is.

Here is a pic of the rear stopping the car:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/10/9EEEFA8C3B1C4FDE87E9E7C6F55B6460-1.jpg

OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.

[Vegas 69]

Do not forget that tire selection can make a big difference. Next shocks and sway bars

[bret]

Beautiful firebird! Firebirds are heavier...you will likely need a higher spring rate, at least in the front. If Rodney doesn't know you are working with a Firebird, make sure to tell him. Actually, I'll discuss it with him this PM. We'll get it right.
I'll check on the shocks as well.

[cpd004]

Beautiful firebird! Firebirds are heavier...you will likely need a higher spring rate, at least in the front. If Rodney doesn't know you are working with a Firebird, make sure to tell him. Actually, I'll discuss it with him this PM. We'll get it right.
I'll check on the shocks as well.


Bret...I will say this...your customer service is outstanding! I'm just a dad on a budget trying to build a car I can enjoy and have been treated like I've been buying your components forever. Rodney has multiple pics. Thank you for checking on this for me!!!

Thank you for the compliment.

[yellow1098Greg]

Whatever stance you were going for it looks like you've got it nailed....well looks like I need to learn all all about those spring rates before I finally get the courage to spend the 3,500 on that level 2 kit. Iv been wanting to do it for a looonnnngggg time. Does any kind of brake spindles bolt to it so you can have the more modern performance brakes as well?

[RLJ676]

Whatever stance you were going for it looks like you've got it nailed....well looks like I need to learn all all about those spring rates before I finally get the courage to spend the 3,500 on that level 2 kit. Iv been wanting to do it for a looonnnngggg time. Does any kind of brake spindles bolt to it so you can have the more modern performance brakes as well?

CPP makes some (depending on your application) and Kore 3 sells some great adapters to run C5/6 vette brakes. Both would be the same as stock attachments and work w/ Ridetech. I have the CPP spindles and Ridetech UCA/LCA/Coilovers on my 72 and Z51 brakes.

[yellow1098Greg]

Sounds perfect...sorry for my ignorance but what are the Z51 brakes?

[TheJDMan]

Z51 brakes are from a C5 or C6 Corvette equipped with the Z51 option.

[MonzaRacer]

If I remember correctly several people say Kore 3 brackets allow C5/6 brake adaptation ,but I believe Baer is Ridetech leanings, or I may be mistaken.
Since your supposed to be able to use stock brakes on their spindles i would believe the Kore 3 stuff to work. But heck what do I know, I work on H body cars!

[gray86hach]

The kore3 stuff is great. 1700 miles on mine not one issue. DSE suspension is great also. Rides better than stock or dads chevelle with stock springs with bistein's

Tim