baer brakes, no need for booster???

[texasdvldog]

I just purchased the 13" Baer tracks for my 67 Camaro and I just called The Right Stuff Detailing to order all new plumbing for the car. (By the way their customer service is excellent!) Anyway I asked about what Power Booster they recommended with that kit and they told me that Bear usually doesn't put a booster behind their systems.

those of you running Baers out there..what do you think?? And if you are running a booster, what you got?!?

[ProStreet R/T]

Hydroboost Note, secure any loose stuff inside the cab before testing.

[texasdvldog]

Hydroboost Note, secure any loose stuff inside the cab before testing.

Sorry all I see is a big red X.

[USAZR1]

I just purchased the 13" Baer tracks for my 67 Camaro and I just called The Right Stuff Detailing to order all new plumbing for the car. (By the way their customer service is excellent!) Anyway I asked about what Power Booster they recommended with that kit and they told me that Bear usually doesn't put a booster behind their systems.

those of you running Baers out there..what do you think?? And if you are running a booster, what you got?!?

I think they misunderstood. Baer doesn't include a booster in their kits but that doesn't mean they don't recommend them.
I'm running a 12" booster with my Baer 13" Track and 12" Touring set-up. My brake set-up is satifactory to me.

[harshman]

Hydroboost Note, secure any loose stuff inside the cab before testing.

what he said. and for the record after i installed mine - dayyyymn!!!

[rocketrod]

Hydroboost Note, secure any loose stuff inside the cab before testing.

Harnesses are highly recommeded!

what he said. and for the record after i installed mine - dayyyymn!!!

Thrid recommedation for a Hydraboost. Stopping power is UNBELIEVALBE!

[texasdvldog]

I think they misunderstood. Baer doesn't include a booster in their kits but that doesn't mean they don't recommend them.
I'm running a 12" booster with my Baer 13" Track and 12" Touring set-up. My brake set-up is satifactory to me.

see, that's what I thought so I pretty much spelled it out for the guy. I asked him.."you mean Baer doesn't recommend that you use a booster"?? and he said that most all Baer systems are designed to work manually.

Anyone have any other opinions or tell me what you are running? I'm going to look into the hydroboost idea.

[Happyfunballs]

I went through the same thing. They told me that a booster wasn't necessary, but if I did want to put one on, they recommended that I put on the biggest booster applicable. I have a 12" unit on mine as well. If you don't have 16-17" of vacuum from your engine.....don't bother with the booster.

[texasdvldog]

I went through the same thing. They told me that a booster wasn't necessary, but if I did want to put one on, they recommended that I put on the biggest booster applicable. I have a 12" unit on mine as well. If you don't have 16-17" of vacuum from your engine.....don't bother with the booster.

wow now I'm really confused :rolleyes5 It's not nessesary that you have one BUT if you want to have one, make sure it's the biggest one availaible??

Anyone know how much vaccum a brand new 350/330 hp deluxe crate motor will put out. I can't even test mine yet because it's still in the crate!

[Happyfunballs]

Applicable, not available. In other words, the biggest one that you can fit in your engine compartment(The 12 and the 13" boosters sometimes hit a set of tall valve covers). I think there are 7", 9" 12", 13" boosters available. The engineer at Baer told me not to bother with anything 9" or below. As far as the vacuum is concerned, I believe it has to do with cam size..but don't quote me, engines aren't my strong point.

[6'9"Witha69]

An untouched Deluxe crate motor will have more the vacuum you need to run a power booster. Just remember to keep the future in mind. If you ever plan to go bigger especially in the cam dept, think hydroboost or manual. I run manual and stop very well. I enjoy the pedal feel from manual brakes. Just my .02.

[LTorres]

IMO when this topic comes up with new kit purchases, I always recommend leaving the vehicle as is. In other words if the car came with power brakes, then leave them (Why go throught the trouble of having to put the power brakes back on if you are not satisfied with the pedal effort and feel of a manual system)? On the other hand if your car came with manual brakes why go through the trouble of adding the power brakes not knowing if the manual brakes would suffice for your needs.

Either way, this type of change from manual to power or vice versa, it will require looking at pedal ratios (In fact usually changing or making adjustments to the pedal are necessary). I would have to say that manual or hydroboost seem to be the most popular when we sell kits here. In other cases, our customers that just insist they get a new booster with their kit usually stick with the same dimension booster that came with their car OE (usually because they know this is how we mocked up and tested the vehicle here before placing it into production) I am not however opposed to advising some customers to go with a larger booster.....It's just kind of a bash from us, considering had we provided the right upgrade at the wheels in the first place....why would you have to go with a larger booster? I guess with some retrofits that changing to a larger booster probably has it's place.

[dustinls1]

calipers require 800-1200psi to operate effectively. you can obtain that in two ways. 6:1 or better pedal ratio with a 1" or smaller bore master cylinder; or a vacuum booster with 1.12" or larger bore and a 4:1 pedal ratio.

The manual system works well but has a bit more pedal travel, the upside being that it is not tied to engine vacuum. the power assisted system will provide a higher more firm pedal, but the downside is you are tied to vacuum boost.

my experience with hydroboost is that it produces too much PSI(1500) and makes the brakes very touchy.

[LTorres]

my experience with hydroboost is that it produces too much PSI(1500) and makes the brakes very touchy.

Dustin,
This was in another thread posted by Paul Clark of Hydratech. After he cleared up some misconception's of the Hydroboost system it seemed to help all that were discussing this same topic on "touchy" brakes with the Hydroboost. According to Paul with the correct bore M.C. you can get rid of the "touchy" brakes you speak of. See below

Thank you Carl and Laramie for chiming in here. There is no question that brake system feel is most definitely related to how well matched the overall brake system components are. It really brakes my heart when I see occasional misinformed forum posts speaking of vague pedal feel and overly aggressive operations being associated with hydraulic brake assist systems, as this just simply isn't true. One of the largest pitfalls a typical customer makes during the installation of one of our systems is to install a master cylinder with an inadequate bore sizing. For instance - just about daily we have to advise a customer against the use of the Baer supplied master cylinder (they received with their brake kit) when installing one of our systems. Why? The smallish 15/16" bore mc supplied is targetted more so towards a manual brake environment, and also does function well in a typical vac assisted setup. The hydraulic brake assist units are so much more powerful than any vacuum booster could ever hope to be, which means that the mc bore sizing needs to be bumped up a few notches to prevent overly aggressive brake actuations. Conventional wisdoms dictate that a 1 1/8" or larger bore sizing would produce a rock hard pedal in a typical muscle car application, though we have determined that it just so happens to be right on the money for use with a hydraulic brake assist unit. The large mc bore keeps pedal travel to a minimum, resulting in a clean / crisp pedal response, yet the assist units have plenty enough power to muscle through the combo = excellent pedal feel which can rival some of the best manual brake setups out there. This results in what everybody seems to be looking for in a modern high performance braking system these days: Excellent modulation, higher and firmer linear pedal response, ultimately manifesting as much more of a pedal pressure sensitive environment as opposed to a pedal travel sensitive response. Since these types of assist units are as potent as they are, you can actually tune the pedal response as desired through the use of alternate mc bore sizes without suffering the typical "stepping on a rock" feeling that large bore mc's typically induce.

Summary? Typically, and generally, if you are running one of our systems: If you do want a very aggressive and potent pedal, go with a smallish mc bore. If you want a high firm pedal response with much less aggressiveness and much improved modulation, up the bore size! You can literally transform the pedal feel and response of the entire system with a quick, fast, cheap, and easy mc swap. Tastes are a very subjective discussion, with no hope for any possible fitz all solution, though we generally tell people to go with the largest available mc bore sizes that would work with their particular combo, finding the customers calling back reporting resolute perfection in 99.9% of the call backs received.

__________________
Paul M. Clark
Hydratech Braking Systems
www.hydroboost.com
[email protected]
586-427-6970
586-531-2115

[Travis B]

great info Laramie