Getting car back from a non responsive shop

[70Uglybird]

Hi all...this is really embarrassing. I used to update my build thread and be excited about my 73 firebird but the guy that worked on it has sucked all joy from my thousands of $$'s spent.

Really long story short, the guy works out of his shop out his house (Now) and has had the car for almost a year for basically installing and auto wire kit. He told me was a two week job. I agreed to pay the rest of the agreed upon job done or not so money is not an issue. I haven't heard from him in over a month now. Sent multiple texts asking for my property back.

His shop/house is over two hour trip and over a month ago when I was able to get ahold of him to pick up the car. He has a big truck behind it and impossible to get out even.

I'm not sure what I can do here, I've talked to a police officer friend and there is ground to have it looked at but its kind of a weird situation. I am busy working and really can't get over there daily to see if I can catch him. But that is screwed up too and not really fair to his family. Any one else been here and have advice?

I probably have 25 to 30k into the car so its not something I can just walk away from or be "more patient" on.

Thanks.

[TheJDMan]

Texting and email is worthless, you need to talk to this guy face to face as soon as possible. Maybe take your LEO friend along with you and a trailer to haul the car on, but you need to make something happen.

[70Uglybird]

Yeah but other than stalking him outside his house I cant do much to make that confrontation happen. Its pretty messed up all the way around. Not to mention I'm trying to be unemotional about it.

[Build-It-Break-It]

I agree, contact your local police department and tell them your trying to retrieve your property from his house. Let them know he's non responsive to all your contact methods and you want to report it stolen and you want to pick it up. Bring all your registration etc.

In cases like this you can't worry about his family. At this point you've given him many opportunities to return your car but he hasn't.

Regardless of his personal situation you need your car back. You can call his local police department and report it stolen and give his address. Down side is when they get it they're going to take it to a tow yard until you pick it up. Fees will have to be paid.

[70Uglybird]

Good advice. The tow and fees will be fine to get car back. I'll call the police on Monday and see where it goes and report back. Hopefully he miraculously contacts me before that. No reason for any of this.

[Build-It-Break-It]

I wouldn't let him know of your plans. He might move your car to a different location to avoid jail time. Police departments are 24/7 I'd do it ASAP.

[dirty rick]

Does he have a signed (by you) work order? If he does there may be complications...

[minendrews68]

I agree with Steve, a face to face confirmation is the only way to do this. Doesn't mean you've got to be a butt, although you probably want to. but nice isn't working. Take your trailer and go get your car.

[70Uglybird]

No signed work order. Some emails etc. I've worked with him before got a bit flaky. I don't that he is doing anything melicious in his mind.

Two problems with just showing up. He isn't there and the month and half ago there was like 25 foot flatbed tow truck in op behind the bay. But yeah I guess I'll talk to police. I'm not in town at the moment. Then if they can't help just start showing up at his house until I catch him.

[andrewb70]

Go get your car!

Andrew

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

oh man I hate threads like this...


cavernous echo of what everyone said on here..

[minendrews68]

oh man I hate threads like this...


cavernous echo of what everyone said on here..

I agree, unfortunately way too often now days..

[all4sho]

that sucks, i hate hearing about this stuff

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

seriously.. that why I learned to do most of this stuff by myself man...

I know some folks on here just dont have the means or the youth but oooh weee.. these threads pop up more often than I would like to admit.

[bwarren]

Im curious where everyone feels this went off the tracks?? I was in a similar situation ~10 years ago, couldn't get my 68 camaro back for 2-3 months (virtually all summer). No one goes into a situation like this expecting it to blow up, but it happens (a lot).

[j-c-c]

My life lesson, and the way I deal with cars that are projects, i tell.agree with the shop, they are only allowed to an agreed amount of dollar work on the car until I inspect or OK additional progress, like $1-3K a pop, and I can remove car without notice during normal hours and all parts upon paying any balance up to the agreed upin portion. Worse case, I lose $1-3K. No headaches, All needs to be writing. If shop resists, go elsewhere. A plausible reason, is if needed, it shouldn't be, what ifthe guy has a sudden ugly divorce, you get run over by a train, and relatives want retrieve the car, etc

To the OP, if you are $30K in, get a lawyer, now, this could get complicated, your left yourself wide open, the law is not as fair and logcal as we would like. The LEO will kilely consider this a civil matter and will not touch. Again, ask me how i know.

Good Luck.

[csouth]

Go get your car!

Andrew

X2!!!! DO NOT announce that you are coming. Get the title to your car, local law enforcement and a trailer. It's quite obvious this guy will be full of excuses and is definitely trying to pull something.

You need to make arrangements with local law enforcement for them to come out with you to get your property. Isn't your 20-30k investment worth burning a couple vacation days to get your car back?

There's nothing like a knock from the police at 6am to ruin someones day.... Just my opinion.....

[Build-It-Break-It]

Im curious where everyone feels this went off the tracks?? I was in a similar situation

I think having no contract signed. Customer changing build plans. Builder taking on more work then they can do. Not turning away customers to avoid loosing potential money turing away said customers.

There needs to be things in writing once "x" is complete the builder gets "x" amount of money.

I took my mom's 2010 TSX to get front end damage repaired and they asked for zero money up front and when I found a flaw they kept the car and repaired it. I didn't pay a dime until it was complete. Some shops can't do this because miss trust from previous bad customers non payment or they have poor money management and can't afford the parts/material costs up front.

[j-c-c]

X2!!!! DO NOT announce that you are coming. Get the title to your car, local law enforcement and a trailer. It's quite obvious this guy will be full of excuses and is definitely trying to pull something.

You need to make arrangements with local law enforcement for them to come out with you to get your property. Isn't your 20-30k investment worth burning a couple vacation days to get your car back?

There's nothing like a knock from the police at 6am to ruin someones day.... Just my opinion.....

Ever tried that at say a legitimate dealership? Unless you cough up what "they" say they are owed, or you pre post a bond of double? the amount, the LEO you bring will escort you off the property for trespassing, with your title in hand. Of course if the guy is clueless, you might get lucky or he will get mad and pad the bill, you decide.

[dirty rick]

A legitimate dealership or shop will have a signed invoice which is a contract and has legal implications.

[csouth]

Ever tried that at say a legitimate dealership? Unless you cough up what "they" say they are owed, or you pre post a bond of double? the amount, the LEO you bring will escort you off the property for trespassing, with your title in hand. Of course if the guy is clueless, you might get lucky or he will get mad and pad the bill, you decide.

What you're saying makes no sense. Dealerships don't try to keep your car when you are offering to pay so you get it back. As the OP stated he is will to pay the agreed balance whether the work has been done or not. Escorting him off the property for trespassing would only occur if the "shop" owner is home, comes to the door and complains. This would be a good thing for the OP, even if this becomes a Civil matter the police would make a report stating why he the OP was at house and what all took place.


A legitimate dealership or shop will have a signed invoice which is a contract and has legal implications.

X2

[Bonehead]

Unless you're ready to just walk away and lose whatever it was you gave them to work on, I don't care how long it took or how many days off from work I'd have to take or how long I'd have to spend on the phone with a lawyer and local law enforcement, there's no way in hell I'd relax until I got my vehicle back. End of story.

[Nine Ball]

2 hours away sounds more like an excuse, not a legit reason to keep you from showing up. Like suggested, bring your title, and a trailer. Plan to camp out in his front yard until he gets home. I would not notify him on exactly when you are coming, just that you plan to do so. If you know where he works, call there and ask for him.

[j-c-c]

What you're saying makes no sense. Dealerships don't try to keep your car when you are offering to pay so you get it back. As the OP stated he is will to pay the agreed balance whether the work has been done or not. Escorting him off the property for trespassing would only occur if the "shop" owner is home, comes to the door and complains. This would be a good thing for the OP, even if this becomes a Civil matter the police would make a report stating why he the OP was at house and what all took place.



X2


How does this makes sense:

1. When retrieving a vehicle that has amount owed, the title means little.
2. The Repair ( legit of backyard) shop has the legal right to retain said vehicle until paid in full
3. Its a civil matter, period.
4. Since there is little paperwork in this case, the OP is very $ venerable, and the amount owed could escalate based on attitude/tricks/bullying, etc
5. My legit dealership example was mainly for a discrepancy in amount owed, and hence having a title in hand achieves little, only payment in full or posted bond will get car off the lot.
6. With a LEO present, any owner/rep can inform a person they are trespassing and escort them away, or arrest them if they refuse, no matter what the purpose/legitimacy of the visit.
7. If the OP retrieves his car surreptitiously, and money is still owed, he might be charged with a felony.

[dirty rick]

Not without a signed work order......

[RobNoLimit]

I have seen this way too many times. Here is some info, and you may need to pass this along to the local law when asking for their help. The car's Title gives you legal ownership. Titles are issued by the state, and the VIN is a Federal document. The U.S. is still under the basic laws of property ownership. The legal owner has the right, at any time, to retrieve possession of a legally owned object. This may come under some argument, but it is federal law. If the shop owner does not relinquish the car, report it stolen. If there is an outstanding bill owed, the shop owner has the right to sue you in civil court, but he does not have the right to keep your property. Tow yards (contracted to local or state governments) are one of the only entities that have the true legal right to hold a vehicle. Even the very best signed work order does not trump property ownership laws. - And your installer has none of this.

Contact the local PD and inform them of the situation. Get the name of the departments Vehicle Theft Investigator, and his direct phone number. Go to get your car during normal business hours. If he is not there, or does not comply, call the investigator (officer), and advise him of the situation. If this does not resolve it, report the car as stolen, and press the issue to the Officer.
Next, STOP this from happening to the next guy. Post his name and address on every forum you can. Let him know you did this so that he may answer the claims. Sue him in small claims to get your money back, and add in any damage to the car. Report him to the B.A.R., and BBB. If he is not charging you sales tax (Oregon has none, but in other states) Report him to the local Franchise Tax Board. If this was all a 'cash deal', he is not reporting Fed Inc. Tax, Report him to the IRS. If he does not have a local business license, report him on that. He caused you great pain, and this kind of thing is ruining our industry. Give the pain back to him, so that this doesn't happen to the next guy.

[j-c-c]

Florida must be different, and there are two elements that mess with the OP's predicament in this case, no written estimate I believe, and the shop is not registered, that being said, this is pertinent to Florida members:
From State of Florida, Re Regulation of car repairs


Amount Over Written Estimate
If your bill exceeds the final estimate that you authorized by more than $10 or 10 percent, whichever is greater, and the shop refuses to give you your vehicle unless you pay, here is what you can do:
Obtain a copy of the bill from the shop and file a bond for the amount of the final repair bill plus storage charges, if any, with the Clerk of the Circuit Court in the county where the shop is located.
The Clerk will issue a certificate directing the shop to release your vehicle. A law enforcement officer will help deliver the certificate to the shop, if necessary.
The repair shop has 60 days to file a lawsuit to recover the bond as payment for the repair. If the shop does not sue within 60 days, the Clerk will return the bond money to you. The shop, however, can still file suit after release of the bond money.
If the shop refuses to release your car after it gets the certificate, you may:
Consult an attorney and bring legal action against the shop. The winning party may receive attorney's fees and court costs.
Ask the State Attorney's Office in your area to file criminal charges against the shop as it is a misdemeanor for the shop to refuse to release your car when it gets a certificate.
Although you do not have to file a lawsuit against the shop, if you choose to do so, the Clerk will give you a form to file.

[70Uglybird]

Just an update, Sorry I went quiet in thread as I was talking with the individual's wife and he is a member of this forum. Didn't want to jeopardize anything there. I was able to get ahold of her through Linked In. She was great and got him to be there yesterday and get the car on a flatbed. Car is in awful shape but its in my driveway. I consider myself really lucky. I can do 80 percent of the work myself and it will be a long time before I trust anyone else with the car. I'm going to try to learn the rest of it I guess.

Thanks for all the support and comments on the thread. I was getting ready to go the route of a lawyer and go from there, just got lucky...well lucky I got the car back not that I got into the situation. Expensive learning experience.

Thanks!!!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

ooooh thats great!

[andrewb70]

Just an update, Sorry I went quiet in thread as I was talking with the individual's wife and he is a member of this forum. Didn't want to jeopardize anything there. I was able to get ahold of her through Linked In. She was great and got him to be there yesterday and get the car on a flatbed. Car is in awful shape but its in my driveway. I consider myself really lucky. I can do 80 percent of the work myself and it will be a long time before I trust anyone else with the car. I'm going to try to learn the rest of it I guess.

Thanks for all the support and comments on the thread. I was getting ready to go the route of a lawyer and go from there, just got lucky...well lucky I got the car back not that I got into the situation. Expensive learning experience.

Thanks!!!

So...what sort of shape is the car in? Do you have pictures?

Andrew

[BMR Sales]

So...what sort of shape is the car in? Do you have pictures?

Andrew

^Damaged?^

[j-c-c]

That was an interesting angle. I had problem with $40K of stuff awhile back, spent $10K on lawyers fees, got 99% of my stuff back after 18? moths. What finally got things moving is my lawyer added the wife to to the lawsuit, as we figured out since she was (co)owner of the house where some the stuff was located, it had merit, the wife, said enough of the pissing match, and the case was quickly resolved, unfortunately $10k later. The wife, done properly, is a good angle.

[70Uglybird]

Yes, I was just looking for any way to avoid lawyers (and that expense.) To be fair I asked him what he thought he deserved for payment and he came up with a lower number. Still higher than I wanted to pay especially with the condition of the car but just wanted to get it out of there.

Cosmetically, it has some substantial chips out of the hood, the front nose is pretty scuffed up, scratches on fenders etc and the paint is thin to begin with. Its leaking something. Dashboard is barely hanging on, Parking brake is trashed. More importantly there are wires hanging everywhere. Looks like a bigger rats nest than the stock harness I dropped off. The engine compartment looks ok Wiring wise. So I maybe seeing if I can order a new interior and gauge harness from AAW.

Interior is pretty much gutted so I'm sure I'm going to be buying some new stuff as well as a fastener kit. I'm not here to bash the guy as I think he is out of business. I'm thankful to have my car back with all major pieces.

I'll get some pics up, but when I dropped it off it was a complete running and driving car and everything worked.

[Protour_Pinto]

You probably did him a favor, He got paid to trash your car and now he has a spot in his shop to get a new car in there and do it all over again to another unsuspecting person.

[TheJDMan]

Did you say the guy is a member here on PT? I sure hope he is proud of himself!

[analyte]

I feel for the next guy that gives this him some work since you won't even mention his name. Just because the business is done doesn't mean he won't make offers to do jobs on the side.

This type of stuff is what hurts the hobby.

Kerry

[andrewb70]

We have a Feedback forum just for this sort of thing.

Andrew

[70Uglybird]

Guys it's not hard to figure out who it was, L&H Kustoms is listed in my build thread. This thread was started because I needed help getting a car back and there is some great info in here to help people in the future. THANK YOU! I've made it a point not to bash but just state the facts.

[analyte]

Guys it's not hard to figure out who it was, L&H Kustoms is listed in my build thread. This thread was started because I needed help getting a car back and there is some great info in here to help people in the future. THANK YOU! I've made it a point not to bash but just state the facts.

On the mobile app I don't see links to build threads. Nonetheless, I'm glad you got your car back.

Kerry

[icemanrd19]

you are all too darn nice. If you take my money and don't give me what we agreed on then that is theft. If you committed theft in my eyes you're a thief. To not ruin someone who ruined my dream bc you are trying to be the better person is beyond me.

Think of it this way. Expose the person for what they are. You owe it to the next person so it doesn't happen to them.