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1969fbird
08-24-2015, 12:21 PM
Hi all, I am new to this world and new to this board. It appears to be a nice place from what I can see. I was never really a car guy as I was too busy with the rat race, raising kids etc and never really had a hobby of any kind to speak of. I have never been able to work on cars or repair/build things around the house other than very, very simple things. It just wasn't me. Wasn't my deal. The complete opposite of my father and my brother and many of my relatives. I always say I only own a hammer because someone gave it to me....partly joking but not that far from the truth.

Edit: This got longer than I was anticipating.........I intended to tell my story of how I came across this 69 Firebird...I got a bit carried away. If this is in the wrong place or not the kind of thing wanted here, just feel free to move it or just delete.....

My father passed away 3 or 4 years ago and I inherited his 1930 Model A. It was kind of his baby for years. It was in pretty nice shape overall. He had restored it himself (basically original) about 25 years ago and the last 10 years of his life it really didn't get out much due to his health and it probably hasn't run in 6 or 8 years minimum but his friends assured me that it would run with a small amount of work.

Kind of sad to say I never really had that much interest in that car other than knowing my dad loved that car so I was going to take care of it....and also to go look at it from time to time and it was a nice conversation piece with friends and family.

I had a few shortly lived thoughts of getting it running and putting it in a couple small town parades. Particularly, the town my dad lived in as many of the people who knew him would get a kick out of it. But It has never left the storage garage I have it sitting in and I just didn't have the desire to work on that car or learn how.

After my father passed, my brother was pretty upset when he found out that he didn't get dads old model A. He is a car guy. Always has been. I understand why he was upset. He's a car guy, I wasn't. That fact is very well known. However, as I explained to him and a few butthurt family members (on some other items) it wasn't my decision. It was dads. that was ugly for a while. Such is life.

The reason I received the car is that my fathers wife made it known to me over 20 years ago that he wanted me to have the old car some day. Mostly due to the fact that I was responsible and my life was very stable and my brother wasn't responsible or stable for most of his adult life, up until recently. (after dad died) I also made a habit of coming around to see them from the time I was in college until he died. Particularly the last few years when he was sick. He was an alcoholic his whole life and his wife had a hard time taking care of him over the years for many reasons related to that in addition to his declining health the last 5 years or so. I assisted her quite a bit at times. The others didn't really take the time to come around that much over the years and really didn't know what his wife had to go through with him and the things I helped her with a few times.

So I kind of understand why there were some hurt feelings and I tried explaining that it wasn't my decision, but that didn't always go well. Everything is fine today. At least as far as I am concerned.

To make matters worse, the times my brother did see my dad, he always told him he wanted that car someday. He was tactful about it. He offered to buy it. Dad never really responded. I never said a word either and dad's wife always said "there is going to be some hurt feelings some day". I was also the one to break the car news to my brother a few months after dads death. Fun stuff.

From day 1, my brother pestered me to buy it from me. I declined for the first 3 years or so. About a year ago, I finally agreed he could buy it from me. He started making payments to me when he could.

As I mentioned, my brother loves old cars. He owns(ed) 2 1969 Firebirds he had bought over time from some old guy. Both were in need of quite a bit of work to restore but not that far off from at least running.

One is a convertible. The coup, he got running the past year or so and had started driving it around a bit. As I saw him driving it a few times, that car really intrigued me. It still needs quite a bit of work to restore it but it "looks good" from a distance and runs reasonably well....

One day a few months ago it hit me.....So I said to him...."Tell you what....let's trade. Even up". He said no way. He wanted them both. I bugged him a couple times over the next week or so and he wouldn't give in. In fact, he gave me another $500 to get his total up to $2,500 that he had paid me for the Model A.

My wife is a genius.....she said "You know he's going to need the money someday and he'll come around to trading" Sure enough, last week, he calls me and said he was ready to go ahead and trade....but I'd have to give him his $2500 back. I said DEAL!! Pretty sure I made out much better on this than him...... :)

So here I am.....I now own a Firebird and have quite a bit of interest in getting this thing restored. I've got a body shop guy that is working on a quote to tell me how much it will cost to restore the body and I've got a mechanic that is going to help me determine what the engine and other mechanical needs are.

I'll make another post now (pics later too) to talk about restoration options.

1969fbird
08-24-2015, 12:27 PM
In my mind, I think I have to decide how far I want to go on this. It kind of scares me as I'm a bit OCD at times and get a bit carried away on things from time to time. I did that with my house when we built it and.....let's just say....there are a few things we went over board on!

the other things I believe I need to answer are:

Do I want to restore it to original as much as I can?

Do I want to restore it completely to my taste?

Or do I want to restore some of it original and some of it to my taste? I am kind of leaning a mixture of both.

I researched the body tag and the interior apparently was parchment. It is now black.

The body was Ivory (white).

The engine isn't original, it is a 350 camaro engine I believe. No idea how old it is. It needs a bit of work but appears to run well.

I really don't know where to start on this other than to wait to do the paint until last

I will try to post a few pics next to show you what it looks like.

1969fbird
08-24-2015, 12:45 PM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif[/URL][/IMG]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/20150818_122421_zpsdzsgmdpe-1.jpg (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/myphotobucket67/media/69%20Firebird/20150818_122421_zpsdzsgmdpe.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/20150818_122620_zpsaa1xz0bz-1.jpg (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/myphotobucket67/media/69%20Firebird/20150818_122620_zpsaa1xz0bz.jpg.html)

JLMounce
08-24-2015, 01:19 PM
Good to see another First gen bird in the hospital!

The first thing I would do is get the Pontiac Historical Society documents on the car.

http://www.phs-online.com/

This will tell you everything you need to know about the car and how it left the factory. Based on that information you'll be able to tell if the car would be a "high value" automobile. Based on the pictures you've provided your car was likely a 350 coupe. This is the most prevalent of the Firebird models. If that's the case it would have left the factory with a Pontiac 350 (different than a chevy 350) under the hood. These cars in pristine original condition can fetch above 30,000 to the right owner, but a driver quality car is probably closer to $12,000-$15,000.

If finances are at all a concern and you may want to get some money out of it in the future, you may want to budget any restorations as to not overspend on a car that may not be worth more than what you've put in to it.

With that said, not having one of the sought after Firebird's gives you some freedom on what you may want to do with it. If you had a high option ram air car, or even a Trans Am, you'd likely want to do a factory correct resporation and repair. The car would be worth the most in this case. With a 350 coupe, you basically have a blank canvas and nobody is going to be hounding you about putting it back to original if you don't want to.

If you plan on driving the car regularly, I would modernize a few things about it. Putting a set of better brakes on it as well as updating some suspension components can make the car far more enjoyable to tool around in. I'd also recommend modernizing the fuel system a bit, which helps the car cope with modern fuels that like to boil and lower temperatures.

You've got some rot in typical Firebird areas, specifically the fenders and probably the rocker panels as well. Although you can source replacement fenders from most parts houses, for the Firebird's they tend to no fit correctly. If you can have your factory fenders repaired, I'd go that route. After that either clean up the paint on it, or repaint to suit. You don't need to go crazy here, but if you can get it looking good at 5 feet, you'll have a really nice car on your hands.

Even just taking a cloth to the interior and a good vacuum will help the car tremendously.

Here's some food for thought. This is my car when I first purchased it in April 1999.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/05970ffc-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/TorchRed10th/media/05970ffc.jpg.html)

16 years later and it looks like this.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/20150422_111551_zps0ej0efs6-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/TorchRed10th/media/20150422_111551_zps0ej0efs6.jpg.html)

Whatever you choose to do, have fun with it! These things deserve to be out on the road, not locked up in a storage facility somewhere!

Good luck!

1969fbird
08-24-2015, 01:29 PM
thanks for the advice. That was exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Any and all advice is appreciated. I will certainly order the PHS.

I will try to update this as I go. I have more pics and someday will get to those. My first step is to get a bit of engine work done to stop a few oil leaks and get it mechanically sound.

Apparently the hood scoops were taken out at some point.

Nice job with your rebuild. I just went through your thread. sharp car!
Thanks

JLMounce
08-24-2015, 01:38 PM
thanks for the advice. That was exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Any and all advice is appreciated. I will certainly order the PHS.

I will try to update this as I go. I have more pics and someday will get to those. My first step is to get a bit of engine work done to stop a few oil leaks and get it mechanically sound.

Apparently the hood scoops were taken out at some point.

Nice job with your rebuild. I just went through your thread. sharp car!
Thanks

Given this information, does the car have the Pontiac arrowhead emblem attached to the chrome beak (bumper)? If it has that Pontiac arrow head, or looks like something may have been there in the past, it's possible that the car was a 400 Ram Air car. Though I'm not sure why somebody would ditch a 400 hood for a base hood. You can't actually remove the scoops from the hood, they are integral to the hood itself. Sprint and 350 cars got the hood you have on the car now. 400 Ram Air car's got a hood with scoops on the side and the Trans Am got the snorkel hood.

400 hood:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/7513118-1.jpg

Trans Am hood:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/14986JPG-1.jpg

The PHS docs will tell you the whole story though. Pontiac had some of the best record keeping in the business. You'd be surprised with what will come in that document package.

1969fbird
08-24-2015, 02:34 PM
I think you are right with your original evaluation. I will still order the PHS doc though.

The owner before my brother cobbled together a few things and we believe he put a different hood on it and covered up the scoops.

I kind of like the 400 and TA hoods better than the regular hood. Would it be tacky to use one of those? I'm going to have to have to replace it anyway I think.

JLMounce
08-24-2015, 03:01 PM
It's your car and you can do whatever you'd like! Both hoods are seen as "superior" in looks to the factory hood. However I do like the low and long hood line created by the base hood.

You can get decent reproductions of any of them, so pick what you like the best!

Josue
08-24-2015, 06:46 PM
Welcome to the forums! Always nice to see another 1st gen Firebird!

JL's pretty much got things covered, and it sounds like you already know what your options are. So, you just need to make a decision, and go for it!

Tim john---
08-25-2015, 01:53 AM
Congratulations on owning a great classic Pontiac. Here is a link to the best Pontiac information. If you need anything Pontiac related these guys will help you out. A great bunch over here. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/

Tim john---

Justin@EntropyRad
08-25-2015, 06:51 AM
killer story!

korb
08-25-2015, 08:33 AM
My twin lol.show set up,& go set up. Good luck

rohrt
08-25-2015, 08:56 AM
Nice starting point and interesting story getting the car. My parents wen

Do I want to restore it to original as much as I can? As mentioned already get the PHS and find out if it was an original 400 car first it may sway you. An original 400 car will have more value overall then a non 400 car.

Do I want to restore it completely to my taste? In my opinion restoring a car is more difficult then just making a nice driver with aftermarket parts. There are a lot of improvement that can be made in almost all areas.

Or do I want to restore some of it original and some of it to my taste? I am kind of leaning a mixture of both. This is what I have done on my car. It looks very stock appearing but I have a bunch of changes all over that would be tuff to spot unless your looking for them.

The big question is what is fun for you when it comes to cars? Fast, cruise, show, auto-cross, drag racing, etc.... Once you know how you want to use the car then you can look into how to build it.

A word of caution, If you build it too nice or too fast you may not want to drive it much.


If you plane to keep it a pontiac drive train you will want to check out http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/

rohrt
08-26-2015, 08:45 AM
Isn't it funny how some people believe inheritance is a right while others see it as a gift. I seen this drama play out when my grandparents passed concerning farmland. I have the same concern with my cars and what to do. I just hope I die first and then my wife has to deal with it;)

1969fbird
08-26-2015, 02:34 PM
My twin lol.show set up,& go set up. Good luck

Wait, is that 2 different vehicles?

(very nice btw)

1969fbird
08-26-2015, 02:35 PM
It's your car and you can do whatever you'd like! Both hoods are seen as "superior" in looks to the factory hood. However I do like the low and long hood line created by the base hood.

You can get decent reproductions of any of them, so pick what you like the best!

Thanks again for all your help.
My mechanic is going to be working on the engine in a week....then the fun begins....hopefully!

1969fbird
08-26-2015, 02:40 PM
A word of caution, If you build it too nice or too fast you may not want to drive it much.


m/[/url]

Haha. That is my dilemna right now! I am guessing I settle for somewhat fast and pretty nice.....and then drive it sparingly. Maybe every other weekend and to an occasional small, local car show. Which is fine. I don't want it as a "driver". More of a "wow....look at that sweet old car" when it makes an occasional appearance...

1969fbird
08-26-2015, 02:43 PM
Isn't it funny how some people believe inheritance is a right while others see it as a gift. I seen this drama play out when my grandparents passed concerning farmland. I have the same concern with my cars and what to do. I just hope I die first and then my wife has to deal with it;)

The thing is, people need to make their wishes known. If they don't feel comfortable telling everyone, it needs to be in a will. WRITTEN DOWN and signed. Unfortunately, most people don't think they are ever going to die....and/or put off handling things like that.

I don't see that ever being an issue for me. I plan on make it well known what I want to happen. We have 2 great kids that are very level headed so I don't see that being a problem... (I hope)

rohrt
08-27-2015, 06:33 AM
What are the plans for the motor?


I have two old cars. My FB has a built 455 and I did a frame off resto on and my 64 Tempest is a slow 326 2speed 2:56 rear car. Guess what car I prefer to drive?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/20140719_170100_zpsc89a0c40-1.jpg

1969fbird
08-27-2015, 10:17 AM
What are the plans for the motor?


I have two old cars. My FB has a built 455 and I did a frame off resto on and my 64 Tempest is a slow 326 2speed 2:56 rear car. Guess what car I prefer to drive?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/20140719_170100_zpsc89a0c40-1.jpg

Going to first see what mechanic says and go from there. Hope to get it to him sometime next week.

By all accounts so far, it appears to be a sound engine. We believe it is a chevy 350. And the way I understand it, those are really easy to work on so hopefully it doesn't take too much to get it in great shape.

It has leaky valve covers but not sure what else. It sounds pretty good.....as far as my uneducated ears know.....but others have commented it sounds good....


I was working on a list of all that's been done to it by my brother so far and then get a list of "to do" items to post. I will get more pics as well. Hopefully sometime in the next week or so I can get to that.

1969fbird
08-27-2015, 10:28 AM
Maybe this is a separate thread request...

I love the little firebird emblems on the car. They are cool IMO.
116612


I am considering painting this vehicle yellow/gold with black accents. The same pinstriping as is on it right now and maybe a black spoiler. The rear (I will get pics later) is black as well. haven't seen many like that.

I am wondering if it is ill-advised (for whatever reason) to paint these little firebirds black and gold?....The red and black would clash a bit IMO

What are your thoughts?

Anyone ever seen or done anything like that?

Since it likely isn't going to be restored to original, I thought this might be cool.116611

1969fbird
08-27-2015, 01:08 PM
Also, any rocker panel recommendations? I don't know that much about cars but it seems some are chrome? Some are just painted? Does that mean they don't have anything "added" there?

JLMounce
08-28-2015, 06:31 AM
High trim level cars had a chrome applique on the rocker panels. Depending on what you want you could go either way with that. I preferred to just have a color keyed set of rockers for my build. I believe you have get the rocker applique from most any Pontiac parts supplier.

ModernMuseum
08-30-2015, 08:06 AM
Nice to see another 69 bird owner. Here's my build thread from a while back. Probably best not to open it unless you want to spend a ton of cash ;)

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/68672-Touring-69-Pontiac-Firebird

1969fbird
09-01-2015, 04:28 PM
Nice to see another 69 bird owner. Here's my build thread from a while back. Probably best not to open it unless you want to spend a ton of cash ;)

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/68672-Touring-69-Pontiac-Firebird

Nice car!