Super cars

[Onebad78ta]

I would like to see a sight where extreme/super cars are highlighted,,by super car I'm talking lots of hp,brakes ,suspension,interior,paint,,most likely 6 figure plus cars at least..Complete builds with the best of the best,,,there are a few cars in here that fit the bill BUT,These cars would be in the same ball park in performance of the exotics and big red...mine will be done in a couple weeks,,,

[Schwartz Performance]

Luxury4play.com .

-Dale

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Oh.

[Removed user as requested]

I would like to see muscle cars compete with exotics to. Especially a B-Body Dodge Charger. Some how I do not believe, it can be done due to physical design and limitations.

I mean lets think about it, buy the most expensive suspension etc... you still have downforce issues, aerodynamic issues, rigidity issues (these cars do not run a monocoque chassis), etc.

Now unless that can all be designed to a muscle car body (which I doubt because the shape of the car was not designed with that in mind)... it just becomes a sphere of unknowns.

I doubt anyone here even with a 300k muscle car has a car that will actually handle like exotics. Maybe the driver might drive better than the exotic car driver, but, put the same driver in both cars... I just don't see our cars doing it. Would be happy to be wrong about that!

[MonzaRacer]

Well the 33 Ridetech built ran with exotic supercars and was as good or better. And the fact is it COULD be replicated in certain forms to operate in similar ways.
While its great seeing the exotics, watching people throw huge money at projects. BUT you know what I want to see, cars going as fast and still drivable on the smallest budget possible.
Just about anything can be done with money, my challenge to people throwing cubic dollars at a project. Prove just how good they are, do it with nearly no money or budget.
I have built cars all my life, done it on a budget. And had a blast doing it and it makes me a better tech and hot rodder and racer.
Peoples failure to see and do unless fueled by large amounts of cash just astound me.
Oh and the Factory Five 33 can be purchased at a fairly reasonable price. The suspension was Ridetech, the driveline easily replicated and it would not take a quarter million dollars to build or buy.
There is a guy in the town I work in Bloomington In, going to IU, he drives a Ferrari, while new it would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. He bought it for what amounts to $7000, non running from royalty in middle east who thought it was blown up, the guy even paid shipping to the Asian town he lived in. Partly saved, partly graduation gifts from a grandparent. He worked on it as he could, bartered and traded for parts and such.
Turns out he got it fixed for less than $2000. His uncle , for his graduation present, shipped it to east coast and he drove it to Indiana.
So the guy has a very expensive car, loves it to death and yet he loves old "muscle cars" and has developed a respect for these cars.
He even pointed out that while his car is, literally a work of art, has only one purpose.
He points out that while his car is great it could never be a utilitarian mode of transportation yet our cars CAN BE. And also be made to do many things,,all from simple cars. The cars we build, modify and enjoy.
You can call super expensive exotics better, but they only have one purpose and doubt you would see one used to ferry 6 kids to daycare. And they also require exotic car to a point.

[MuscleRodz]

Where's the popcorn, I see this going south real quick.......

[Nicks67GTO]

Well the 33 Ridetech built ran with exotic supercars and was as good or better. And the fact is it COULD be replicated in certain forms to operate in similar ways.
While its great seeing the exotics, watching people throw huge money at projects. BUT you know what I want to see, cars going as fast and still drivable on the smallest budget possible.
Just about anything can be done with money, my challenge to people throwing cubic dollars at a project. Prove just how good they are, do it with nearly no money or budget.
I have built cars all my life, done it on a budget. And had a blast doing it and it makes me a better tech and hot rodder and racer.
Peoples failure to see and do unless fueled by large amounts of cash just astound me.
Oh and the Factory Five 33 can be purchased at a fairly reasonable price. The suspension was Ridetech, the driveline easily replicated and it would not take a quarter million dollars to build or buy.
There is a guy in the town I work in Bloomington In, going to IU, he drives a Ferrari, while new it would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. He bought it for what amounts to $7000, non running from royalty in middle east who thought it was blown up, the guy even paid shipping to the Asian town he lived in. Partly saved, partly graduation gifts from a grandparent. He worked on it as he could, bartered and traded for parts and such.
Turns out he got it fixed for less than $2000. His uncle , for his graduation present, shipped it to east coast and he drove it to Indiana.
So the guy has a very expensive car, loves it to death and yet he loves old "muscle cars" and has developed a respect for these cars.
He even pointed out that while his car is, literally a work of art, has only one purpose.
He points out that while his car is great it could never be a utilitarian mode of transportation yet our cars CAN BE. And also be made to do many things,,all from simple cars. The cars we build, modify and enjoy.
You can call super expensive exotics better, but they only have one purpose and doubt you would see one used to ferry 6 kids to daycare. And they also require exotic car to a point.

I think Bret said it would take 300k to build his 33 the way he did it. I'm not sure if that means having Ride tech replicate it or doing it yourself but I remember being floored at the mumber.

[Removed user as requested]

I think Bret said it would take 300k to build his 33 the way he did it. I'm not sure if that means having Ride tech replicate it or doing it yourself but I remember being floored at the mumber.

I think that is also what I remember.

I said I did not mind being wrong whether or not a muscle car can be made like that, I just don't see how. I mean, money is money, sure. In general, with enough $ anything can be done... I think that is still 'to a point' due to design limitations.

1: Monocoque vs full frame
2: Carbon Fiber light weight supercars vs heavy muscle
3: Mid-Rear layout vs front engine RWD
4: AWD/4WD vs 2WD
5: Aero dynamics (which help even in corners) vs a brick

Dollars can compensate for a lot, suspension, shocks etc, but how do you give a muscle car aerodynamics of a super car, a rigid body (20,000-30,000 ftlbs of torsional rigidity) like supercars with monocoque chassis, how do you put the engine in the rear and all that other stuff that supercars just automatically come with?

Perhaps the engine part could be done if you wanted to really change the look of your muscle car and flip things around, but aeros and the torsional rigidity? How do we add a monocoque to it and still call it a muscle car? How would it even work with the original style body? This is where I think money just 'cant' produce a physical impossibility.

Now there may be other ways of doing stuff to achieve the same goals even with a brick... i don't know.

I just think saying money can do anything is not entirely true. I mean, turn an exotic car into an F1 car... you cant. Money will never make any exotic handle like an F1 car, the design is completely different and it just wont be an F1 car. So I dunno. I love the idea of a muscle car being able to handle like a super car, I just don't see the 'how' it can.

[andrewb70]

Super Cars are so 20 years ago. It's Hyper Cars now...

Andrew

[BMR Sales]

Luxury4play.com .

-Dale

Check out the Garage Thread! You'll be looking at it for days!

[Onebad78ta]

I wrote this topic after e few cold ones,,,, my meaning was muscle cars with all the best,,,,that can stomp most exotics,,,or keep up..My Trans am will definatly be able to do this.

[JustJohn]

Based strictly on the "Fast and Furious" series, any 90's era import can keep up with a Ferrari...
:poke:

[Onebad78ta]

really LOL

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Hot Rod magazine built that wicked 33 ford off of the Factory Five kit...it ran like stink, and held its own

[Josh@Ridetech]

Hot Rod magazine built that wicked 33 ford off of the Factory Five kit...it ran like stink, and held its own

This 33? It was built by Ridetech, not Hot Rod :cheers:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/jglad91/media/car-on-track-still_zps7lk3owov.jpg.html)

[MonzaRacer]

I do knowthe rear end was kind of exotic, but I would think possibly a 9in might do as well.
The 427 small block wouldn't be that hard to duplicate.
Don't get me wrong, I loved what Bret and the crew built, and really think it would be fairly easy to replicate.
And don't get me wrong , it won't be a $5000 build but I would definitely like to see what a Factory Five car plus $5k might create.

[TheJDMan]

my meaning was muscle cars with all the best,,,,that can stomp most exotics,,,or keep up..My Trans am will definatly be able to do this.

Don't be "that guy"!

[NJSPEEDER]

After many years of solo racing and track days I feel like the entire "can X keep up with Y on a track" conversation ends up having a lot more to do with the driver on any given day than the car. My first track day was at Road America in a 91 Camaro RS with the mighty 305 TBI under the hood and I passed a Viper. It had nothing to do with my upgraded suspension or tires, the guy jsut couldn't frigging drive!!!

Even if you talk about ultimate performance there is a lot of debate since so many brands send out test cars with different tires or they tune them for where ever the testing is taking place. The acedemics can all be manipulated, weight distribution, tire size, power to weight ratio........are all just matters of the build so even saying one over the other is the ultimate whatever really contributes more to having the debate than answering it.

[Removed user as requested]

After many years of solo racing and track days I feel like the entire "can X keep up with Y on a track" conversation ends up having a lot more to do with the driver on any given day than the car. My first track day was at Road America in a 91 Camaro RS with the mighty 305 TBI under the hood and I passed a Viper. It had nothing to do with my upgraded suspension or tires, the guy jsut couldn't frigging drive!!!

Even if you talk about ultimate performance there is a lot of debate since so many brands send out test cars with different tires or they tune them for where ever the testing is taking place. The acedemics can all be manipulated, weight distribution, tire size, power to weight ratio........are all just matters of the build so even saying one over the other is the ultimate whatever really contributes more to having the debate than answering it.

From what I gather on the conversation, guy keeping up with his trans-am and what you have said is again factoring the Driver.

So if driver A in super car sucks then driver B in muscle car keeps up.

My point is, if Driver A drove both cars, how is the 'car vs car' going to do and not driver vs driver, ie: the potential of the vehicle itself. Lets put it this way - Top Gear, test track, and the F1 driver that drives the vehicles. Will a pro-touring car given to the Stig be able to do 1.16 around the track like the Mclaren Mp4-12C? Will it do 1.17 like the Aventador? Hell will it even do 1.19 like the Enzo?

This is the point I am getting at. You may keep up to exotic race car drivers with your muscle car, but I bet if you drove an exotic car, you wouldn't be keeping up with them but leaving them behind because the car itself can do 'more'.

When I go off what is 'better' I eliminate the human factor, and just go "car vs car". So identical situations, identical days, which car will handle better and perform better. Can a muscle car be built so that car to car, the car itself is capable of what the Supercars are? Will it do 1.16 around the track like the Mclaren given to the same race car driver?

I mean aerodynamics have to have some part in this, if they did not, then why dont they just build brick shaped supercars to handle with engines in the front, why make those low profile cars like the Veyron, Mclarens, Aventadors etc? Why waste the money shaping and crafting cars to cut through the air with engines in the back, no trunk space or rear seats etc when Mr X down the road can do the same thing with his 1960's car? I don't see it happening.

[Onebad78ta]

unfortunatly just add a few drinks and Im that guy,,,I am looking forward to this monday when I get a chance to drive my car after being in construction for a year,,,,who knows maybe I will be able to put a whooping on some poor unsuspecting car,,,