C6 vs. Wilwood Spindles

[65 drop top]

I'm interested in the differences of a C6 spindle compared to the Wilwood Pro Spindle. I know that the C6 spindle uses different bearings and brakes. Specifically looking for info about geometry and performance potential. Thanks.

[raustinss]

Good gravy that's over my head but, ill be watching this one

[130fe]

Are you using a stock or after market subframe?

[65 drop top]

Are you using a stock or after market subframe?
Aftermarket full frame. I'm building a '55 Chevy.

[Ron Sutton]

Was the aftermarket full frame designed with the front suspension? If so, what spindle did they design it for?

Comparing a modern Corvette spindle to a 40 year old Pinto spindle is about as diverse as it gets. I'm curious why you're considering those two?

[Nothingface5384]

Could be AMEs sport IFS (wilwood pro) vs their c6 weld in frames?

[65 drop top]

Could be AMEs sport IFS (wilwood pro) vs their c6 weld in frames?

Basically that sums it up. I'm looking at the AME sport ifs with the Wilwood pro, the Roadster Shop Revo which uses the Wilwood pro also, or the RS Fasttrack which uses C6 spindles.

[65 drop top]

Was the aftermarket full frame designed with the front suspension? If so, what spindle did they design it for?

Comparing a modern Corvette spindle to a 40 year old Pinto spindle is about as diverse as it gets. I'm curious why you're considering those two?
Ron, I'm looking into a new chassis for my '55 Chevy. The AME chassis uses the Wilwood spindle, and seems to perform well. It has been considered the standard for the tri-five guys. Roadster Shop offers a chassis with the Wilwood or C6 spindle. So I guess I'm just curious as to why these shops are still offering chassis with the Wilwood spindle if it is out dated. Or is it just a good solid foundation to build from?

[Schwartz Performance]

We also have a chassis for the tri-5, which uses our own spindle and front suspension; we've proven them to be great handlers. Let me know if you have any questions about them!

-Dale

[RobNoLimit]

The Wilwood Pro spindle is a hybrid design that uses Mustang II geometry and allows for a bolt-on steering arm, and is more user friendly when it comes to bolting on a set of big Wilwood brakes. With the standard steering arm, the Pro spindle is built to be a direct replacement of the OE MII. Spindle Height (Ball joint pivot center to ball joint pivot center) is the same, Pin height is the same (stock or 2" dropped) SAI is the same, and outer TRE placement (bumpsteer and ackremen) in the same. These also use the same A-12 and A-13 bearings as the MII. IMHO, the MII geometry is not "bad", the spindle is strong, light (compared to most) and the steering geometry is good. To compare the two spindles outside of their respective suspension won't show you much. As for the C6 spindle, they work great in corvettes. They are light weight and big brakes are easy. The OE rack position is a bit high (No clearance issues as the engine is completely behind the rack) but aftermarket steering arms can fix that easy. Again, it's only fair to compare them in a whole package. They can each be winners, and losers.

[65 drop top]

The Wilwood Pro spindle is a hybrid design that uses Mustang II geometry and allows for a bolt-on steering arm, and is more user friendly when it comes to bolting on a set of big Wilwood brakes. With the standard steering arm, the Pro spindle is built to be a direct replacement of the OE MII. Spindle Height (Ball joint pivot center to ball joint pivot center) is the same, Pin height is the same (stock or 2" dropped) SAI is the same, and outer TRE placement (bumpsteer and ackremen) in the same. These also use the same A-12 and A-13 bearings as the MII. IMHO, the MII geometry is not "bad", the spindle is strong, light (compared to most) and the steering geometry is good. To compare the two spindles outside of their respective suspension won't show you much. As for the C6 spindle, they work great in corvettes. They are light weight and big brakes are easy. The OE rack position is a bit high (No clearance issues as the engine is completely behind the rack) but aftermarket steering arms can fix that easy. Again, it's only fair to compare them in a whole package. They can each be winners, and losers.

Thanks for the info. So let's just say that you had two identical cars, same driver, same everything, except the front suspensions. One was built around C6 spindles, the other built around Wilwood Pro spindles. Would there be any noticeable difference in performance?

[Jerems]

I'm curious about this too, looking to get a frame for a 66 Chevelle. The Roadster Shop announced their SPEC series frame which seems to be a lot more reasonable price wise but has the Wilwood spindles instead of the C6 style.

[RSX302]

Resurrecting,
This also has been a question of mine for sometime now.

I have had the wilwood pro spindles on my Camaro for a while and as with everything, I can't leave well enough alone.

As I continue to learn about front suspension, I've made changes which seems to be going in the right direction.

Although not perfect, I'm happy with what I have which takes me to the question at hand, will updating to the C6 system provide any advantage to what I have?

I typically finish within a second or two against the heavy hitters which isn't bad considering my Camaro weighs close to 4000lbs with me in it and I drive once or twice a year at autocross events. (twin turbo and full sound system).

I've data logged a consistant 1.1g in the corners and the only thing I see holding it back is the weight and my driving.

Inside scope: I'm removing my turbo's for N/A setup. I pre-weighed and removed 300lbs less exhaust. Now I just need to work on my driving.lol

[Ron Sutton]

I look at the spindle's role building the suspension geometry ... in a similar way an engine builder looks at cylinder heads in building an engine combination. When you're building or modifying an engine ... and want it to be optimum ... you would pick your cam, intake, carb or EFI, headers, etc ... based on the cylinder head flow & characteristics. If the cylinder heads won't achieve the goals ... you modifying them with porting or change to better heads ... and build your combination of cam, intake, carb or EFI, headers, etc ... based on the new cylinder head flow & characteristics.

When I'm creating or modifying a suspension geometry ... and want it to be optimum ... I work out my roll center, suspension travel, roll angle, camber gain, etc ... based on the current spindle & ball joints. If the spindles won't achieve the goals ... I modify the spindle's height with different height ball joints ... or change to a better spindle ... and build my combination of roll center, suspension travel, roll angle, camber gain, etc ... based on the new spindle.

If your engine makes 400hp ... and you want to make 450hp ... the engine builder probably doesn't need to change the heads. But if you want 700+ hp ... without power adders ... it's safe to say we'll need new heads, along with other stuff.

If your car runs 3-4 seconds off the leaders on a routine basis ... and you want to pick up .2-.5 of a second on your lap times ... you probably don't need to buy new spindles and build a new suspension geometry to achieve that. But if you want to run go 3-4 seconds quicker & run with the leaders ... it's safe to say we need to make some significant changes to the suspension & geometry. Better geometry spindles are "probably" going to be involved.

I have clients call me to make their car handle better & ask if spindles should be one of their first purchases. If they have modest goals and/or modest budgets I steer them away from buying new spindles ... as long as I think their spindle will work "OK" & achieve their goal. But for clients with higher level goals & higher level budgets ... we almost always plan to utilize superior geometry spindles ... and probably stronger/safer too.

That's my 2¢. Make sense?

[RSX302]

Hey Ron, I think your input is worth much more than 2 pennies! :twothumbs

I originally installed this system 16yrs ago (before all the cool stuff thats out there now) and over the years I've upgraded to the pro spindles, taller upper ball joints, upper arm re-location, pulled in scrub radius, corrected ackerman, yada, yada.

When I first started building this car, I never imagined it would be what it is today. I guess you helped me come to my answer and I would suspect others as well.

For me and my current mods, I will keep what I have since its no slouch. I would imagine that 250lbs off the nose should help a bit as well.:bananna2:

Thanks again