So we installed the Shockwave/AirBar system on our g-28 Project 2nd gen

[Steve1968LS2]

Well, Like the title says.. normally I have to be all hush hush about these things till the article comes out but I can give you a couple of brief tidbits.

1. System was pretty easy to install. Only welding was to affix gussets to the axle tube for the upper links of the 4-link. Only cutting required was to take out part of the front frame to clear the bags. All the rest was a bolt in deal. We installed the complete shockwave front and rear system with thier Strong-Arm front upper and lower control arms and double adjustable shocks. Oh, and a hollow front sway bar that they sell with the system(not sure if the one that came off was hollow or not). Only thing we have to still have to work on is reworking the e-brake cable on the passengers side.


2. Car weighed 3510 before and about 3420 after so we knocked about 80lbs off the cars weight. About half of this was off the front. Weight was without driver.

3. Car rides much better now on the highway as measured by the ass-o-meter.

4. Car performed equal to if not slightly better than it did with the old system. The old system was tested with the Nitto NT01 R-compound tires and that is what was run on this system as well so we have an apples to apples comparo of the before and after. I don't have the exact final #'s since I have to calculate them but the 200ft skippad yielded about .94g's and the cone speed was about 46mph.

5. It is nice being able to dial in the ride height to get the right stance. Also nice to raise the car up for crappy roads and driveways.

6. I am now a believer.. We lost weight off the car, gained drivability and the ability to adjust ride heigth. We kept the same performance at the expense of some trunk space (for the tank and equipment). I think with some screwing around with shock settings we might be able to squeeze a bit more out of system, keep in mind we finished the install Wednesday morning and hit the track 2 hours later. We also might try installing the rear sway bar and testing "just to see" but the car felt good in the tests.

7. The guys from Air Ride (Bret and Rod) are great guys and were a pleasure to work with. As a bonus they are "car guys" that know thier stuff.

Epilog: Is this the perfect system for a pure track whore or race car? Probley not but for the 99% of the guys out there that want a good handling street car that can have fun on the track it is a hell of a system with a lot of flexability.

Story should be out in a couple months with the exact performance data and a full review of the install and testing.. I just wanted to give you guys something since this has been a hot topic in here recently.

[MuscleRodz]

Thanks for the update. I guess I need to go back and consider them again. It is only more money I don't have to spend. :crying:

Mike

[DarkBuddha]

Sweet! We asked for it and you guys are doing it. Thanks for that. I've been an admirer of AirRide for a few years now; ever since they started offering bolt-in "performance" systems and not just "pimp" ride systems. I gotta admit that if I ever redo the suspension, they'll likely get my coin.

[yody]

what did it do on the skid pad before?

[Travis B]

very cool steve glad we finally have some real world test data to go off of!

[Steve1968LS2]

what did it do on the skid pad before?

To be honest I don't remember.. let me look..

<-- digging through old issues..

Here it is.. (September issue with new NT01 tires)

420ft Slalom: 46.2mph
200ft Skid Pad: (averaged) .94g

So just about the same. As I said before, with some fine tuning and tinkering I think we can best those by a little bit. After all there are four shocks with two settings on each shock. Plus you can get different results by setting different ride heights. We only adjusted the back shocks once or twice.

[yody]

pretty good, what was teh suspension setup before?

[Travis B]

To be honest I don't remember.. let me look..

<-- digging through old issues..

Here it is.. (September issue with new NT01 tires)

420ft Slalom: 46.2mph
200ft Skid Pad: (averaged) .94g

So just about the same. As I said before, with some fine tuning and tinkering I think we can best those by a little bit. After all there are four shocks with two settings on each shock. Plus you can get different results by setting different ride heights. We only adjusted the back shocks once or twice.

So are you guys going to leave the sytem on the car and continue to modify it or did they already take the system off? How low did the car sit with bags hammered?

[Steve1968LS2]

pretty good, what was teh suspension setup before?

Nothing too exotic.. GW A-arms, KYB shocks, Helwig swaybar and KYB shocks.. oh, and Hotchkis springs. The combo worked well though.

[TonyL]

1st. can you leak a pic of g-28 slammed to the ground?

-please?

I knew this system would be perfect for me. Thanks for the affermation.

one vital tidbit of info is missing from your synopsis. price.

total cost of hotchkis (?) setup?
total cost of Airride's setup?

[Steve1968LS2]

S oare you guys going to leave the sytem on the car and continue to modify it or did they already take the system off? How low did the car sit with bags hammered?

Since Johnny liked how the car performed and LOVES how it rides he is gonna keep the system on the car.

We only "layed header" for a little bit but it sure did look good down there. I doubt Johnny will change the height much, will most likely find the best setting and keep it there.

We will most likely tinker with it some more and maybe try putting the rear swaybar back on it just to see if it helps or hurts..

I think I was most surprised that we lost so much weight.. I guess, like most people, I just assumed these systems were heavy..

[Travis B]

So I guess now that we know air bags are a decent performance suspension alternative does that mean it is taken off the officail poser list........all thats left is

big wheels
Americans ttII's
disc brake simulators

lol j/k

[F70t/a]

:firefire: Can't wait to read about it!!!

[Steve1968LS2]

1st. can you leak a pic of g-28 slammed to the ground?

-please?

I knew this system would be perfect for me. Thanks for the affermation.

one vital tidbit of info is missing from your synopsis. price.

total cost of hotchkis (?) setup?
total cost of Airride's setup?

I doubt I can.. I will ask though.. The Air Ride guys took pics also so maybe they will post a pic of the Camaro slammed (hint hint)

The old suspension stuff was around $2k.. The Air Ride system would be more money at about $4k for the whole deal.. BUT, it does a LOT more since you can adjust ride height and the shocks are adjustable for compression and rebound. I suppose you would need to compare it to a coil-over system with upper and lower a-arms and such.

The airbar out back is pretty sweet packaging wise since it ditches the leaf springs. This should give you more room for fuel tanks and a bit more tire clearance. The story will have lots of pictures.

[darren@ridetech]

Thaks for the post Steve. Did you keep Rod and Bret out of trouble? I think they were flying in this afternoon. I will see if they have any pics.

[Steve1968LS2]

Thaks for the post Steve. Did you keep Rod and Bret out of trouble? I think they were flying in this afternoon. I will see if they have any pics.

I don't think anyone could keep them out of trouble.. lol..

And don't thank me.. after all if it wouldn't have gone well I would have told that too. In a nice PC way of course.. After the Air Ride driving event though most here were optimistic that the system would perform well. Rod worked his behind off getting the parts installed and gettting everything ready to test in only 2 days.

You been brushing up on your math for the other thread?

Oh, and feel free to post a pic of the car slammed.. but don't post too many or these guys will skip buying the mag.. :hand:

[Steve Chryssos]

So did the AirRide guys swap parts at all, or did they arrive at the proper combination on the first try?

[USAZR1]

Oh, and feel free to post a pic of the car slammed.. but don't post too many or these guys will skip buying the mag.. :hand:

No danger in that for me,Steve. I just renewed my subscription for another two years.
Was that 900ci Jon Kaase Ford motor in the latest PHR issue insane or what??? :seizure:

[Steve1968LS2]

So did the AirRide guys swap parts at all, or did they arrive at the proper combination on the first try?

Well they only shipped one set of parts. The brackets are the brackets so the only part to "swap" would have been the shocks. The did install this system on an earlier 2nd gen so I imagine that helped them know what worked.

The car worked well but to be honest I have no idea if these are the best shocks.. maybe another of their combos would have done better.. maybe not. I guess some trust is put into the maker of the parts to guide one in the right direction.

We did mess with some of the compression and rebound settings but that was about it.. I am trying to remember the settings but they are in my notes.. 7:3 and 4:1 come to mind but it is a bit fuzzy.

[Steve1968LS2]

No danger in that for me,Steve. I just renewed my subscription for another two years.
Was that 900ci Jon Kaase Ford motor in the latest PHR issue insane or what??? :seizure:

Yea.. 900ci is like "WTF!".. Makes you wonder if there will be some theoretical limit or will we have 1400ci crate motors in 10 years and guys will be running 1 second quarter miles.. lol

I read about the Kaase motor and measured the '68 Stang.. I don't think it would fit..

[F70t/a]

Steve,

Did that system make that cool sound when you slammed it? :drool: If you didn't know the car had an air ride , Do you think you would of noticed? I got a ride in a WRX a year ago and I didnt even know it had an air ride until he parked.

[David Pozzi]

Steve,
Thanks for doing the test! I think you guys are doing a great service for your readers.
I'm quite impressed that the system did that well!
Did you notice any extra suspension travel or leaning with the Air system?

[darren@ridetech]

They used the double adjustable shocks, 16 clicks per knob. I think that will cover any shock on the market. Those #'s sound about right. 7 on the rebound up front and 3 on the compression. 4 on the rebound in the rear and 1 on the compression.

[Damn True]

Are those shocks position sensative or speed sensative damping?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Thanks for doing the test! I think you guys are doing a great service for your readers.
I'm quite impressed that the system did that well!
Did you notice any extra suspension travel or leaning with the Air system?

I didn't drive it as much as Johnny did but when I drove it the suspension felt very predictable and to be honest I couldn't tell I was driving on "bags".

Funny thing is that to get the previous numbers on the Camaro we flogged it for about an hour through the cones. After a couple of runs with this system we were equaling our previous best times. I think that says something. We will do more tweaking in the future since we only made a few adjustments. There are 4 shocks with 16 settings on each shock plus ride height settings so you do the math on how many combos there are. lol

Oh, the best times through the cones were with two different drivers. One being Johnny and the other being the President of Air Ride who had never sat in the car before. Bret did manage to mangle a few cones though ;)

[Piet]

Steve,

Let Johnny know... I have been buying PHR at the newsstand since the g/28 article came out.... looks like I will need to subscribe. I am not much of a magazine guy, but this article got me hooked. (Oh yeah... getting Kris' artwork in there helped too!)

Kids are buying the subscription for my b-day.

Nice article... keep 'em coming

[OneslowZ28]

Since you have seen this on the car 1st hand what are the possibilities of this system working properly with a narrowed rear (4-6" from stock) and a set of WIDE meats 345's to be exact. in your opinion would i better benefit to stay with a coilover in the rear or leafspring? It would be great to see an article in the magazine on stuffing the biggest meats in a 2nd gen. Hopefully my wish will come true before i start cutting into mine lol.

[woody80z28]

I've been praying the AirBar setup would be made for a 2nd-gen!!!!

[darren@ridetech]

Are those shocks position sensative or speed sensative damping?

Our shocks are not position sensitive...the valving is linear according to piston position.
All shocks are speed sensitive...they will react appropriately according piston velocity.

[darren@ridetech]

Here ya go guys.....


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Damn True]

Our shocks are not position sensitive...the valving is linear according to piston position.
All shocks are speed sensitive...they will react appropriately according piston velocity.

All shocks are speed sensitive huh?

Interesting that you would say that. Particularly in light of the fact that it isn't true.

I know all I need to know about your company now.

[Steve1968LS2]

All shocks are speed sensitive huh?

Interesting that you would say that. Particularly in light of the fact that it isn't true.

I know all I need to know about your company now.


lol.. sorta harsh huh? Maybe you should ask him to elaborate, maybe he mistyped or you misunderstood..

Civility has left the building..

[yody]

so people think that looks good that low?

[Steve1968LS2]

so people think that looks good that low?

Maybe.. someone asked for a pic with it all the way down.. I doubt it will ever be that low again. In fact I doubt it will move much off the settings we found to be best.

[sinned]

All shocks are speed sensitive huh?



Interesting that you would say that. Particularly in light of the fact that it isn't true.



I think you are referring to vehicle speed and Darrin is referring to shock piston speed, which to an extent is true. The faster the shock piston travels the harder it is to displace whatever type of media it uses (hydraulic or gas).

[Steve1968LS2]

I think you are referring to vehicle speed and Darrin is referring to shock piston speed, which to an extent is true. The faster the shock piston travels the harder it is to displace whatever type of media it uses (hydraulic or gas).

Thanks Dennis.. rather than fly off the handle it is sometimes better to ask for clarity..

Tough crowd sometimes.. lol

[Damn True]

I think you are referring to vehicle speed and Darrin is referring to shock piston speed, which to an extent is true. The faster the shock piston travels the harder it is to displace whatever type of media it uses (hydraulic or gas).

No, no I'm not.


Maybe you should ask him to elaborate, maybe he mistyped or you misunderstood..


Perhaps he mistyped, but I'm certain I didn't misunderstand.

Darren said, "All shocks are speed sensitive...they will react appropriately according piston velocity." which is absolutely not true.

Im talking about shock piston position sensitive shocks. Which do exist, have for quite some time, and work quite well.

The point of the question was to determine if the damping in the shock was tuned to compensate for the progressive nature of a compressing air volume. Reason being, if your damping rate is the same throughout the shocks travel it will be exponentially progressive toward the end of the shocks travel as resistance to compression builds due to the decreasing volume unless your overall volume is very high and your compression ratio is very low.

However, a position sensitive shock is able to vary the level of damping depending upon where the piston is in it's travel. This allows the shock to respond appropriately to both low frequency and high frequency suspension deflection AND allows it to damp small (the seam between normal roadway and a bridge deck) and large (hitting a pothole or running over a large object) deflections.

I tried on three other occasions to get him to expound on the compressed vs static volume delta and on the rate of progression in the chamber volume (I even provided the appropriate formulas from the applicable gas laws which he refered to as theories...huh?) and either he couldnt, or wouldnt answer me. That followed by his response to, what is in my mind, a fairly simple question tells me all I need to know about the company.

Either they don't entirely understand the environment they are working within or they regard potential customers with a bit of contempt.

If the guy dosen't know the difference between speed and position sensitive shocks, thats fine, say so and I'll explain it to him. But don't try to B.S. me.

[Damn True]

Not trying to usurp your lofty position Dennis. I asked the guy multiple questions and got nothing of substance and then complete B.S. in return. Kinda cheeses me. I apologize if I offended anyone, but I found it utterly disrespectful.

Steve, these are the kinda questions I was refering to in that thread over on Lat-g when I spoke of testing, consumer advocacy and in depth tech.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

All posts that contained absolutely no technical information or lacked any form of contribution to the thread, other than stirring the pot have been removed.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve, these are the kinda questions I was refering to in that thread over on Lat-g when I spoke of testing, consumer advocacy and in depth tech.

I understand.. and my write up will be as accurate as possible.. I am NOT an engineer so don't look for that sort of review.. lol..

If you are gonna be at SEMA we can chat offline where the printed word doesn't last forever..

[Damn True]

I understand.. and my write up will be as accurate as possible.. I am NOT an engineer so don't look for that sort of review.. lol..

If you are gonna be at SEMA we can chat offline where the printed word doesn't last forever..



I wish I was going to be there. Perhaps we can find some other way of discussing it offline. Shoot me a PM with your email addy. We can start there.

[F70t/a]

In that picture is Johnny's car slammed or just lowered?

[Steve1968LS2]

In that picture is Johnny's car slammed or just lowered?

That is with all the air out and sitting on the tires.. all the way up looks like a 4X4..

[darren@ridetech]

I don't have an answer about the volume delta question. I was not ignoring you just trying to find an answer. I am trying to get some info from Firestone yet.

On the shock....this is the way I understand it. Maybe I am wrong but this makes sense to me:

Speed sensative and postion sensative are two completely different characteristics that are not really related. A shock does not have to be one or the other. It is possible to obtain a shock that is speed sensative and position sensative. Take the Monroe Sensa-trac shocks for example. It has a smaller bore diameter at different heights in the tube, making it stiffer on bigger bumps and with increased piston speed it will take more force to compress it.

That being said, the billet shocks that we use in all the Shockwaves are not position sensative but they are speed sensative.

[F70t/a]

That is with all the air out and sitting on the tires.. all the way up looks like a 4X4..


Steve,

Do you remember how low the rockers were from the ground? :spank2:

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,

Do you remember how low the rockers were from the ground? :spank2:

No.. but as you can see in the pic they were pretty freakin low.. It looked both cool and silly at that heigth.. lol

The 4x4 mode was great for getting it on the rack though..

[F70t/a]

The 4x4 mode would come in handy in cali with the crapy roads and driveways :drive1:

[Kenova]

The 4x4 mode would come in handy in cali with the crapy roads and driveways :drive1:
.........and oil changes :lol: . I have to ask Steve, do you have any pics with it pumped up? :lmao:
Ken

[F70t/a]

.........and oil changes :lol: . I have to ask Steve, do you have any pics with it pumped up? :lmao:
Ken



I was wondering that also. It would be cool to see it 4x4 :postpics:

[Steve1968LS2]

.........and oil changes :lol: . I have to ask Steve, do you have any pics with it pumped up? :lmao:
Ken

I think there are a few around.. I didn't take any pics.. I was too busy taking notes.

Maybe the air ride guys have one.. looked pretty goofy.

[darren@ridetech]

This is ride height. It will inflate 2-3" above this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[TonyL]

real small pic?

[Steve1968LS2]

You sure? I think that looks like "all the way up"..

[formula]

yeah im gonna go ahead and hope that's not at ride height...cause that looks way too much like factory ride height, if not higher.

[darren@ridetech]

Yea, you guys are right. Driving height will be approx. 2-3 above fully deflated, (about 2" lower than factory.)

[Derek69SS]

I have to ask Steve, do you have any pics with it pumped up?
Here it is fully pumped up. :lmao:

[OneslowZ28]

Oh Damn!!! Now thats funny:worship:

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Here it is fully pumped up. :lmao:


:lmao:

[Steve1968LS2]

Dammit.. the Hotchkis snow-plow parts install was supposed to be a secret!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Damn True]

Pssst, I'll let you guys in on a little secret. ATS is working on a new body kit for the 2nd gen Camaro. Tyler happend upon something of an epiphiany in regard to areodynamics. "Screw it!", he said "Bernoulli was a douchebag!", rambling on he continued, "Eureka! I've got it! High velocity low pressure, low velocity high pressure blah blah blah. Well this'll show 'em. I'll get the car waaaaaaaaaaay up in the air and equalize it!"

Oh, and what do you think of the prototype front spoiler?

[F70t/a]

Do we get to see pics? :Alchy:

[formula]

on a slightly more serious note...whereabouts did you have to cut in the front, and do you think it would still be necessary to cut if you switched from the factory front sub?

[darren@ridetech]

Just to the outside of the coil spring, to clearance the Shockwave. It is an arc about 2" tall.

The Shockwaves will work with most aftermarket front ends as well.

[CarlC]

Steve,

Was the testing done on a 420' slalom course at Fontana? Also, how does the 46 mph stack up against other performance cars (4th gen, etc.)?

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,

Was the testing done on a 400' slalom course at Fontana? Also, how does the 46 mph stack up against other performance cars (4th gen, etc.)?

It's a 420ft slalom course (i think)..

Well.. a brand new '02 Z28 Camaro did the following in our testing:

40.90 mph
.80g's on the skidpad..

g-28 did 46.5 mph on the skidpad but keep in mind it did have better tires (which really helped better in the skidpad moreso than the slalom). Also that was very little tweaking and tuning.

For more reference Rober Wilsons truck-arm/Martz car did this: (on Nitto 555's)

Wilson's '69 Camaro
60-foot 2.15
0-60 mph 4.62
1/4 mile 12.59 at 114.05
60-0 mph 142.80 feet
420-foot slalom 44.1 mph
200-foot skidpad .81 g's

So we went from a previous best of 46.2 to a new best of 46.5 -- while 3-tenths may not sound like a lot every tenth gets harder to get the faster you go. We feel that with some corner scales and tuning we could wring out some better times.

I have turned in the story and wrote it as fairly as I could. Now it will be edited then printed. We will see how the final story reads.. lol

I told Bret, the owner of air ride, that for next years track day there are a few select people he needs to invite to drive the cars on the track. We also talked over some idea's like swapping on coil over shock onto the Air Bar system and taking the car out to test and finding a good car with a hot coil-over suspension and just swapping on a set of air springs.

Anyways, the story will have about 10 install pics and we will have about 40 install pics online when the issue comes out. Take for it what you will.

[Steve1968LS2]

Oh, and for more reference Art Morrisons GT55 did the cones at 48.37 mph.. an absolutly blistering speed.. (and .94 on the skidpad). One of our fastest times ever. I was looking though the records and not many cars are at or above 46 mph. very few in fact. Lots of 42's and 44's..

Hell, J Biddles Ex Trans Am racer Mustang only hit 44.2 through the cones.. but he did KILL the skid pad with an amazing 1.01g on bias ply race rubber..

http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0508phr_ta/

[Mean 69]

I'd be game for testing a set of airbags on our setup, believe it or not. I am really impressed with the numbers, there is a whole bunch more to the story than them in and of themselves, but it is still a really great result. The coil-over swap is a great idea to get a fair comparison, the leaf-to-bag swap also incuded a big time suspension change, so it'd be great to see a more apples to apples comparison.

Please count us in for a track day, we are completely game.

So, what do you think the guy that designed the GT55 (which, is amazing, especially given that it is on street tires) could pull off if he had a bit more liberty on the design side?

Mark

[Steve1968LS2]

I'd be game for testing a set of airbags on our setup, believe it or not. I am really impressed with the numbers, there is a whole bunch more to the story than them in and of themselves, but it is still a really great result. The coil-over swap is a great idea to get a fair comparison, the leaf-to-bag swap also incuded a big time suspension change, so it'd be great to see a more apples to apples comparison.

Please count us in for a track day, we are completely game.

So, what do you think the guy that designed the GT55 (which, is amazing, especially given that it is on street tires) could pull off if he had a bit more liberty on the design side?

Mark

Cool deal.. I will talk to Bret at Air Ride and see what he thinks.. and I can't wait to lateral-1 (or 2) through the cones..

LOL.. yea.. what ever happened to the guy that worked on GT55??? lol.. I heard that guy is trouble and a terror in a go cart.. :)

[CarlC]

Hum, must be some difference in the measurement or setup. I've done the slalom gig with Hotchkis/Kevin Lee at the Speedway, but turned low 62-64 mph.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hum, must be some difference in the measurement or setup. I've done the slalom gig with Hotchkis/Kevin Lee at the Speedway, but turned low 62-64 mph.

It's all about the cone spacing baby :)

I did think that Super Chevy used the same spacing though.. at least nowadays..

[Mean 69]

I think it is all about the driver. Carl rips! You madman, you need to be the hot shoe in one of the ALMS cars.

Steve, you made a very interesting point in your comments about Art's car, and Jay's. It is the difference between a steady state, and a transitional state. On the skid pad, all Jay's car had to do was find a "set," and stay with it. Bias ply tires roll over a good amount, they are completely different than today's radials that are far superior. They have very soft rubber though, so the friction coefficients are high. In transition (slalom), the nasty's of the sidewall flex show up, in relative terms. I would guess that the car would pull a really good slalom with contemporary tires.

Art's car slipped a bit more in the steady state (skidpad) due to a harder rubber compound, but the sidewalls and overall construction made the car work extremely well in the transitions (slalom). 'course, the tuning and suspension on the car didn't hurt either.

Anyway, this is an excellent example of why a skidpad number only tells so much, and further, how important tires are. Great observation.

Mark

[Steve1968LS2]

I think it is all about the driver. Carl rips! You madman, you need to be the hot shoe in one of the ALMS cars.

Steve, you made a very interesting point in your comments about Art's car, and Jay's. It is the difference between a steady state, and a transitional state. On the skid pad, all Jay's car had to do was find a "set," and stay with it. Bias ply tires roll over a good amount, they are completely different than today's radials that are far superior. They have very soft rubber though, so the friction coefficients are high. In transition (slalom), the nasty's of the sidewall flex show up, in relative terms. I would guess that the car would pull a really good slalom with contemporary tires.

Art's car slipped a bit more in the steady state (skidpad) due to a harder rubber compound, but the sidewalls and overall construction made the car work extremely well in the transitions (slalom). 'course, the tuning and suspension on the car didn't hurt either.

Anyway, this is an excellent example of why a skidpad number only tells so much, and further, how important tires are. Great observation.

Mark

Well I'm like that broken clock.. I'm right at least twice a day.. lol

And tires make a WORLD of difference.. one only has to look at g-28 with the 18's and hard tires compared to the 17's and NT01s.. night and day difference. I am really hoping that Nitto will step up and make a 335 R-compound NTO1 so I can run it on Penny.. 315 is what they make now.

I wonder how Biddles car would do on modern tires.. better in the slalom and worse on the skidpad or better on both?? hmm.. his old school tires are uber sticky but like you said, they do roll over a bit.

[Mean 69]

I am really hoping that Nitto will step up and make a 335 R-compound NTO1 so I can run it on Penny

It is a pain finding really wide performance tires for 18's, isn't it? I agree, this is what I'd like to run on our car(s) too. Maybe someone from PHR could nudge them a little bit? They won't listen to low-life's like me.... Of course, I doubt I could get away with the Hoosier slicks on the streets for too long.
M

[CraigMorrison]

From the sounds of it BFG's R1 will have a fairly wide range of tires by mid/end 06...335X18....don't know, but definitely keep your eyes open!

[USAZR1]

It is a pain finding really wide performance tires for 18's, isn't it? I agree, this is what I'd like to run on our car(s) too. Maybe someone from PHR could nudge them a little bit? They won't listen to low-life's like me.... Of course, I doubt I could get away with the Hoosier slicks on the streets for too long.
M

Mark,do you mean 335/30/18 Racing or UltraHP street tires?

[Mean 69]

More of the R rated typ race tires, but same holds for the bigger street tires too. I'd really like to use Kumho's, Toyo's, or the like, but it is tough to find a 335 rear, with a 315 front in the same brand. Michelin, yes, but bring your checkbook.

Sorry for the sidetrack. We did find track tires though.
M

[Steve1968LS2]

It is a pain finding really wide performance tires for 18's, isn't it? I agree, this is what I'd like to run on our car(s) too. Maybe someone from PHR could nudge them a little bit? They won't listen to low-life's like me.... Of course, I doubt I could get away with the Hoosier slicks on the streets for too long.
M

I've been nudging Nitto.. lol.. hell, they would sell good. Didn't vipers come with 335's at one point?

So you think they would listen to the low-lifes here more?

[Steve1968LS2]

From the sounds of it BFG's R1 will have a fairly wide range of tires by mid/end 06...335X18....don't know, but definitely keep your eyes open!

Hmm.. insider information?

And yea Mark.. I was checking out them Hoosiers as well.. Nitto making some would make my life easier though. To figure out why just flip over an issue of PHR.. lol

[Ralph LoGrasso]

More of the R rated typ race tires, but same holds for the bigger street tires too. I'd really like to use Kumho's, Toyo's, or the like, but it is tough to find a 335 rear, with a 315 front in the same brand. Michelin, yes, but bring your checkbook.

Sorry for the sidetrack. We did find track tires though.
M


I would love it if Kumho or Nitto (Toyo) would make a 335/30/18 R-compound tire. I've got Kumho Ecsta MX on my SS (275/295) and although they're not R compounds (they're still Kumhos best street tired though), they handle excellent, and the price is right, too.

[CarlC]

It's a 420ft slalom course (i think)

Fat finger. 420'

Looking at old notes, it was a 600' course that Hotchkis set up.

[parsonsj]

Pirelli too. Checkbook comment applies.

jp

[Damn True]

I don't have an answer about the volume delta question. I was not ignoring you just trying to find an answer. I am trying to get some info from Firestone yet.

On the shock....this is the way I understand it. Maybe I am wrong but this makes sense to me:

Speed sensative and postion sensative are two completely different characteristics that are not really related. A shock does not have to be one or the other. It is possible to obtain a shock that is speed sensative and position sensative. Take the Monroe Sensa-trac shocks for example. It has a smaller bore diameter at different heights in the tube, making it stiffer on bigger bumps and with increased piston speed it will take more force to compress it.

That being said, the billet shocks that we use in all the Shockwaves are not position sensative but they are speed sensative.



How then do you address the following?

In a system which uses a gas under pressure as a spring (air or nitrogen) if your damping rate is the same throughout the shocks travel it will become exponentially progressive toward the end of the shocks travel as resistance to compression builds due to the decreasing volume.

[darren@ridetech]

Yes the spring rate of the air spring will progressively increase, but the question was referring to the shock itself.