68 Firebird/LS2/TKO 600/ engine mounts on stock subframe

[Fourmz]

I know this question comes up often "Which mounts for my project?" but, after hours of searching and multiple PMs sent to a few members I am at a dead end. I am installing an LS2 w/ holley 302-1 pan on a brand new stock subframe and the pan bottoms out before my motor mount holes line up. I have the 69 Z28 frame mounts and transdapt plates. I am also using the stock power steering box and steering gear. Is there a set of mounts that will work with out me having to notch my subframe?

[nats68]

PM Toddoky
He works for Hooker/Holley. He might be able to help.

[Z06vet]

Ive done several with that setup. I have used grade 8 thick washers to shim the frame stands. You may have to dimple the subframe slightly toward the pass rear of the crossmember for extra clearance. About 1/8" has been sufficient. Scott

[Fourmz]

Will shimming the frame stands interfere with my pinion angle?

[Z06vet]

The washers are only approx 1/8" thick. On one build I had to use 2 stacked together for add'l pan to crossmember clearance. After that I switched to the mast pan so I wouldnt have to worry about it. I think you'll find you'll end up shimming the trans tailshaft as high as possible to improve the pinion angle, esp if the car will sit low. You can always mod the area on the crossmember if you'd rather do it that way. Its only a small area.

[Toddoky]

I might be able to help you out with some of the confusion surrounding this issue. The Holley 302-1 pan will usually not fit in a 1st-gen F-body without notching the subframe or adding shims underneath the frame stands to raise the engine, which I do not recommend as it raises your vehicle's center of gravity and negatively affects your ability to obtain desirable U-joint working angles without having to cut your floor tunnel open. The design of the Hooker 1st-gen engine mounting brackets, transmission crossmembers, headers and exhaust systems and Holley 302-2 oil pan were designed concurrently to eliminate any such issues. The engine brackets delete the frame stands from the car entirely and set the engine lower in the subframe than is possible with the use of any swap plates, which required the development of the 302-2 pan to accommodate this lower engine position and clear the subframe. The only drawback to the 302-2 pan is that it is not compatible with any crank stroke past the common stock 3.62", which isn't a concern for you with your LS2 engine. The Hooker headers designed as part of this swap system will clear the steering box by a mile and provide the best ground clearance you will find available. There are plenty of users on this forum and others that have used these components in their swaps who can attest to the effectiveness of their design. The way you are currently proceeding with your swap is the way they were commonly done 10 years ago and if you switch to using the Hooker/Holley system of components you will prevent yourself from suffering with the shortcomings and obstacles that those still using the old swap plate method are still subjecting themselves to.

Let me know if there's any other information I can provide.

Todd

[Fourmz]

Thanks everyone, Holley/Hooker mounts, headers, 302-2 oil pan, gen 4 windage tray and clamshell frame mounts are all ordered and enroute to me by Monday next week. Hopefully this gets me where I need to be.

[Z06vet]

I've been wanting to try this setup. My current build is using an aftermarket sub. Like to see pics along the way & your feedback. I was hoping to use it on my buddy's build, but he is using the tru turn, so it wont work.

[Fourmz]

I will write up a review once I have finished the install hopefully by the end of the month.
I've been wanting to try this setup. My current build is using an aftermarket sub. Like to see pics along the way & your feedback. I was hoping to use it on my buddy's build, but he is using the tru turn, so it wont work.

[Toddoky]

Z06vet, you can use the Hooker/Holley set-up with the Tru-Turn system by either using the mid-length Hooker headers for the application, or by modifying one primary tube on the passenger side of the Hooker long-tube headers. I've performed the modification for a few guys that have contacted me through various forums I'm on but am no longer doing it due to not having the time in my schedule. I can provide clear photo documentation of how to execute the modification for anyone wanting to do it.

[Z06vet]

I'd rather not modify a $1000 stainless header, especially at my skill level with welding. The mast pan with your old style LS1 swap headers fits well with the dirty dingo DD 3 position adj mounts. I prefer long tubes, but I can ask the owner if he would consider the mid- length. I'd really like to try your new setup as package. Thanks for your input. Scott

[Toddoky]

I'd rather not modify a $1000 stainless header, especially at my skill level with welding. The mast pan with your old style LS1 swap headers fits well with the dirty dingo DD 3 position adj mounts. I prefer long tubes, but I can ask the owner if he would consider the mid- length. I'd really like to try your new setup as package. Thanks for your input. Scott
I understand. if you get a chance to try the new Hooker parts for the 1st gen F-bodies on that car, I think it will convince you to never touch swap plates again, since you can achieve far better U-joint working angles and a lower center of gravity using the proprietary geometry of the Hooker engine brackets and transmission crossmembers. The better figment also comes without having to cut the tunnel open, which has a negative effect on vehicle resale value.

[Fourmz]

Well, I finally got the engine and trans mocked up with the holley mounts, holly 302-2 oil pan and hooker LS swap longtube headers on to a stock gen 1 F body frame and I can confirm that everything fits like a glove. From the stock steering gear to the engine position to the header clearance all fit very nicely. i will try to post some pics soon but after 2 full days of wrenching, I am beat.

[4fbodies]

Fourmz, what trans mount and clutch actuator are you going to use?

[Fourmz]

Im using the crossmember and mounts that came with my TKO 600 five speed and a hydraulic clutch setup I picked up from Amp Performance.

[4fbodies]

Thanks Fourmz, What bellhousing are you going to use? I am putting a LS7 in my 69 Camaro and also have a TKO 600 setup. Plan is to go with the Holley/Hooker system. I know the 4'' stroke will be an issue with the 302-2 pan. I've been debating on using the TKO 600 because I figured the crossmember that came with it would position the tail of the trans too high throwing the driveline/U-joint angles off. Holley doesn't state that the TKO 600 is compatible with any of their crossmembers. There's also concern about the longevity of he TKO with my planned HP level of about 550 RWP. I've been looking at the T56 Magnum too. I don't want to cut the the tunnel/floor pan. I have a TKO shifter that fits in the original 4 speed opening with the stock motor location.

[Fourmz]

114490The kit I bought from AMP performance included a cast aluminum bell-housing. Some shimming of the trans mount may be necessary once I am done and back on the road but all of the bolt holes lined up perfectly. From what I read the ls7 wont work with the holley pan due to the dry sump oiling system.

[4fbodies]

I'm not planning on running the ls7 dry sump system. It's not worth the expense and fabrication needed for my planned use of the car. Converting it to wet sump. SD sells the parts. I'm guessing you'll have to shim the tail of the transmission down since the Holley engine mounts set the engine lower.

[Fourmz]

According to the Holley rep, the mounts are supposed to set the engine and trans at the correct angle.

[68sixspeed]

I'm not planning on running the ls7 dry sump system. It's not worth the expense and fabrication needed for my planned use of the car. Converting it to wet sump. SD sells the parts. I'm guessing you'll have to shim the tail of the transmission down since the Holley engine mounts set the engine lower.

I made the dry sump ls7 work with the stock oilpan, subframe, and crossmember/rear steering. One special fitting/adapter block to keep one of the hoses from hitting the steering and a $300 canton 10 quart dry sump tank has been working well. I can post some pics if you are interested. It wasn't as bad as I expected.

[parsonsj]

You don't want to shim the tail housing down. The Holley mounts do a great job of putting the engine in the correct location. Shimming the tranny down will create too much engine angle for ordinary u-joints, leading to vibration and premature part failure.

[4fbodies]

Fourmz, My bad . I somehow thought you were using a TKO 600 trans crossmember meant for a SBC. So the AMP Performance trans mount works with the Holley LS swap system? Are you using the Holley/Hooker crossmember? Just trying to figure out my options. Thanks.

[4fbodies]

68sixspeed, I would like to know how you made the LS7 dry sump pan work with the stock subframe. What engine mounts and crossmember did you use. Thanks.

[68sixspeed]

Sure, I will dig out the pics/info. Hopefully later tonight if time allows..

[68sixspeed]

Here are the plates I used, with max engine setback. I needed to check but I think I added a 3/16" spacer between the motor mount and plate to raise the motor just a hair.

114758

For the dry sump adapter, I made my own, I made a few while I had the cnc setup if you go this way. I'm having a hard time attaching pictures, I'll try again to edit or it might take another post per pic, not sure why...

edit- still can't get it, pm me your email and I'll send you some pics direct.

[Fourmz]

Fourmz, My bad . I somehow thought you were using a TKO 600 trans crossmember meant for a SBC. So the AMP Performance trans mount works with the Holley LS swap system? Are you using the Holley/Hooker crossmember? Just trying to figure out my options. Thanks.

Sorry for the delay, I recently started a new job and have been out of town. i am using the crossmember that came with the TKO600 when it was mated up to my old Pontiac 400. The crosmember fits the stock subframe bolt holes and the trans mount bolts to the crossmember as well. The Holley motor mounts do move the trans forward 1" and consequently I will need a slightly longer driveshaft but I anticipated that part. As far as the engine and trans position everything bolts right up with the Holley enginge mount kit, 302-2 oil pan and longtube headers with the TKO crossmember all bolted to a stock gen 1 f body frame.

I hope this helps.

[4fbodies]

Thanks Fourmz, let us know how it (engine angle) turns out.