Help me design a stereo system for MotiV8r

[Larry Callahan]

Are you an audiophile? Then help me put together a sound system for MotiV8r my '68 Camaro based around a Pioneer 8100 NEX head unit.

I would like it to have some kick but I don't want some over the top crazy million watt system. It needs to be hidden and if needed I can dedicate the space under the rear package tray in the trunk for amps and sub woofers. I am eliminating the back seat in favor of storage boxes so that might free up the wall between the trunk and interior for ports or covered speakers if needed. I also need to keep the costs down so there are more funds for go fast parts. So, knowing the allowable space and the type of car what would you recommend?

[BMR Sales]

There is no hiding the Power of the Bass!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/TractionControl/media/hqdefault_zpsxrdvg3ev.jpg.html)

[cactuss4]

And then one should consider weight as a factor, putting a giant MDF box in there is totally self defeating. Thus you are looking for fiberglass and if you are honestly just looking to fill out the sounds, a couple of 8's would be more than enough, give you the crisp hits and they will provide some of the low throw bass. I had 2 12's and 4 8's in my Rx7, 132db at 100 watts, but with my punch 650, over 1000watts at 2ohms, you could not sit in the car even with ear protection as it would feel like it was trying to stop your heart. (hello hearing loss !).

So a couple of eights in a nice fiberglass enclosure obviously tweeters, mids in the doors, perhaps a center channel, but just like pro-touring the sky is the limit. Find someone local that has the experience and they can put something together nicely. Just be honest with whomever it is on what you want. (if secretly you want to shake the car in front of you with bass vs exhaust, tell them )..

Tory

[scott_fx]

Well. Audiophile and not spending a lot do not go hand and hand :)

First let's look at subs. Since you're eliminating rear seats, the obvious choice is an infinite baffle sub. It's light weight and takes up very little space. You just have to make sure to seal off the trunk completely. An air bleeding through will have an adverse effect on the bass. I recommend looking into the 15" dayton audio ib sub. I ran a pair in my home theater and they perform very well

Next, speakers. Your biggest issue is going to be hiding a tweeter. I went with horns but that is far from a budget option. In your case I would look into hybrid audio technologies "imagine" line. They allow you to mount the tweeter on the mid this will simplify the install and if you use kick pods, it'll sound good.

Forget the rear speakers, they don't help you. In short they introduce something called "comb filtering". It makes things harder to tune and just doesn't add anything.

Now for amps... Your door speakers NEED power and lots of it. I would not consider anything under 100 watts rms per channel. I would suggest 150. Power doesn't necessarily mean volume, instead it means clarity. I usually compare it to towing a jet ski. Would you be better off with an f250 or a Honda Accord. Both "could" get the job done. One would do it a let easier.

[scott_fx]

And then one should consider weight as a factor, putting a giant MDF box in there is totally self defeating. Thus you are looking for fiberglass and if you are honestly just looking to fill out the sounds, a couple of 8's would be more than enough, give you the crisp hits and they will provide some of the low throw bass. I had 2 12's and 4 8's in my Rx7, 132db at 100 watts, but with my punch 650, over 1000watts at 2ohms, you could not sit in the car even with ear protection as it would feel like it was trying to stop your heart. (hello hearing loss !).



A single 12 in a 1 cu/ft box would probably be lighter than a pair of 8's and it would perform better... All else being equal

Also, I have not been able to ever find any evidence that bass contributes to hearing loss I had an argument years back and boy I tried to prove that point with some scientific study... Nothing of substance was found



perhaps a center channel,
You would need some serious processing power to make this work. It better to k.i.s.s. Front speakers and a sub is all you need :)

[cactuss4]

A single 12 in a 1 cu/ft box would probably be lighter than a pair of 8's and it would perform better... All else being equal

Also, I have not been able to ever find any evidence that bass contributes to hearing loss I had an argument years back and boy I tried to prove that point with some scientific study... Nothing of substance was found


You would need some serious processing power to make this work. It better to k.i.s.s. Front speakers and a sub is all you need :)

Anything over 100db is bad and this was not all bass.

for example "A clap of thunder from a nearby storm (120 dB) or a gunshot (140-190 dB, depending on weapon), can both cause immediate damage." My system with only 100 watts produced 132 db's, forget when I had the 650 running at 2ohms.

I don't think you will get the crip hit from a 12 that you do with an 8..

Tory

[scott_fx]

Anything over 100db is bad and this was not all bass.

for example "A clap of thunder from a nearby storm (120 dB) or a gunshot (140-190 dB, depending on weapon), can both cause immediate damage." My system with only 100 watts produced 132 db's, forget when I had the 650 running at 2ohms.

I don't think you will get the crip hit from a 12 that you do with an 8..

Tory

I'm just telling you what i had researched. sure... frequencies above 80 hz would be damaging to hearing. i just can't find anything about sub frequencies that would support hearing damage... and man... i tried. i hate being wrong.


the idea that an 8" sub is 'tighter' than a 12" is a myth. If the 12 is a quality sub, built correctly (not for spl), has proper power and in a sealed box.... it'll be just as accurate as an 8"... but it will be able to play lower and have i higher spl. These aren't my assumptions, they are proven many times over.

[JustJohn]

A six channel amp, 3 way components for the front, an electronic cross-over, and a mono sub amp would be clean and easy to set up from a good head unit. That gives you a dedicated channel for each speaker and is the old school formula for competition stereos (not sound-off stereos). Should play any kind of music you like and sound good to people who listen to music through their stereo rather than listening to their stereo through the music.

Subs are kind of a "how low do you want to reproduce" question. JL Audio's compact enclosure subs do extremely well. I currently have an 8" in my Wrangler, which is great with the top on. With it off I have a 10" in a sealed box for supplement.

[XTRMEASURES]

First thing to ask is what is the budget on this system? Also will the car have sound deaded and how much of it? How easy of an install do you want it to be? If ease is what your after then look at a 5-ch amp with a set of comp speakers and a 12" sub in a fiberglass ported enclosure. You could bridge the 1/2 and 3/4 ch to make it a 3-ch amp for more power to the front speakers. ( old school trick )

[Larry Callahan]

I plan to seriously insulate the car and to put some decent mufflers on it. I think I can keep the interior heat down and make it a comfortable ride. I'd more worried about that than the weight of it all.

I don't really have a budget or number in my head yet. I'm just trying to do it as reasonable cheap as I can. I'm thinking probably a 4 channel amp for the front and rear speakers and maybe a couple of 10's under the package tray in a box.

[rustomatic]

Light and cheap sound system: a 100-pound hitchhiker with a harmonica. They're plentiful in Hollywood, and they are easily removed for a track event...

[68EFIvert]

I just purchased the same head unit that Larry did. I plan on putting it in the Volvo project I am doing right now that has a thread in the projection section. I have a question about the speakers that would work well in the car. I was planning some sort of component speakers like Focal or JL Audio but would like some recommendations. I likely will have a single/double 10" sub or maybe 8". The interior of the car will be built from scratch by Tracy at The Recovery Room so I don't need specific speakers for the car. I will let him build around what I want or need. Do you guys have some specific speaker recommendations. I am willing to pay up to $800 for the component speakers. I will then need to get an amp (5 channel), rear speakers and some subs. Thanks for the help and sorry to hijack the thread but your initial question was very close to mine and you have the exact same head unit.

[scott_fx]

With that budget I would honestly skip jl. They make awesome subs and amps but I've never been impressed with their components. Since; it seems, that you're going "big" with this build I would highly recommend going active and get ting some 7"-8" mids up front and a large format tweeter. Also, it would be a crime if you didn't go active.

With that in mind I would suggest getting the jbl ms-8 processor. This processor has an auto tune function that will get you results in 10 mins that would take a professional a few months of continual tweaking. Well at least 90-95% of the way there. It'll run you about $450 (street prices) but we can make up the difference with choosing a less expensive amp and raw drivers.

For the drivers. The seas w18nx is unbelievable and you will be hard pressed to beat i. (This is what I'm currently running). It's a 7" mid and will reach down nicely into the midbass frequencies. For the tweeters you have a few options. You can run a ribbon tweeter or a large format tweeter. Vifa has an amazing line of tweeters that run under $50 each (x25) series. The ribbon tweeters are supposed to be amazing but installation will be a bitch. They are large and need to be aimed correctly.

For subs... This is the least important decision you'll need to made. People focus WAY too much energy here. Personally I run Tc sounds subs but they are in the midst of some restructuring and they are hard to find. I would look into image dynamics or dayton audio for subs.

For your amps. Power is key. If you can afford zapco is run those (that's what I have) but honestly you can get pioneer (gm) series for a fraction of the cost and will be hard pressed to tell the difference once you get that ms-8 set up. Just make sure you get plenty of power for those mids and tweets

[Larry Callahan]

All good info guys. Thanks.

Now I need to find out what "active" means. LOL!

[Larry Callahan]

Something I did do was order up the Pioneer CD-MC20 Auto-EQ Microphone to help with auto tuning the head unit.

114536

[scott_fx]

Oh. Sorry. Going active means that you would need a channel on your amp for each driver. The benefit of this is that you get to use a processor to dial in the exact frequencies that the driver will play. It will let you interactively alter that based on your particular vehicle and driver choice. That is only the tip of the iceberg though. When you get a processor you can individually eq each driver, you can adjust the timing that the signal will play as well. The timing feature (time alignment) will let you have your tweeters up higher (raising your perceived soundstage) and also not giving you any weird anomalies that would occur because your tweeters are closer to your head. This is done by delay the signal so they arrive at your head at the same time.

Your equipment selection is responsible for about 30-40% of the sound quality of your system. Installation and tune will make or break a system.

[scott_fx]

Wait. What head unit do you have?

[68EFIvert]

I think we are both running a Pioneer 8100 NEX head unit. Would you run a pair of 8", pair of 10" or just one of one of those size subs?

I really appreciate your help and I am sure Larry does as well!

[Larry Callahan]

The Pioneer Darreld and I are running have a built in auto tube that will do that with the microphone I purchased. It may not work as well as a real pro might but I'm sure it will probably work well enough for me.

That is like you say we run the correct amp. Right now I'm leaning towards the Kicker product line.

[scott_fx]

Hmm. If your headunit can run in network mode then you can run active. If not then speaker placement will be a lot more important. Your time alignment would not be able to delay the tweeters separately from the mid. If it can. Then you're golden.

If it can, your best option is to lower the soundstage and mount the tweeters near the mids in the kick panels. This will also mean you would need to go with a passive component system. The hot gear right now are morels or HAT (hybrid audio technologies). Probably leaning toward the hats a bit more.

As for subs. I suggest a single 12 unless you don't have the space. The 12 will play just as clean as the 10 and 8 but will play a bit lower and have more output. On top of that, a single 12 will be cheaper than a dual 10 or 8.

Kicker will work. Any name brand will do a good job. Just make sure they are powerful enough.

[andrewb70]

Here is what I found in my trials and tribulations with muscle car audio. I have a decent 3 channel system and it sounds pretty damn good when the car is parked. Once the engine is running and the car is moving, all the bass gets washed out big time. Take that for what you will, but unless you spend a ridiculous amount of time, money, and a lot of added weight, the odds of having a lot of bass when the car is moving are minimal.

Andrew

[68EFIvert]

Do you need rear speakers or are good front enough? My Volvo is a pretty small car but will have a small back seat that my kids will ride in. Would it be worth it to replicate the front setup in the back or some simple coaxial speakers?

[scott_fx]

I haven't run Rear speakers in at least 10 years. Rear speakers actually make it harder to tune and degrade the audio signal. A solid 2 way front and a sub is great for most situations.

[CKreations]

Go simple AND lightweight. A single 8" sub or 10" sub with a Jl Audio 900/5 and a nice set of speakers all he way around will be plenty for even an audiophile in the awful acoustics of a muscle car. Oh, and make sure to throw some sound deadening at it....

[mc84_zz4]

Many good relies already, I'll throw in my $.02:
- dynamat the interior and doors, roof, rear quarter, and rear bulkhead, 36 sq ft box = interior floor, 1 box for roof, a 3rd box for trunk and scraps here & there to reduce interior buzz.
- pick the better quality speakers you like, components in the front are best, higher end speakers may have external crossovers, like the components do. If you go with 2-way or 3-way speakers in front, angled kickpods help with the speaker placement, and open up the soundstage.
- match the amp to the power the speakers need, rule is to provide in the upper 30% of RMS, some quality speakers (woofers) can exceed 100% or RMS, tweeters usually do not like, crossovers can tolerate a little over, you can tune the amp gain to avoid excess..
- I prefer a single 12" sub in a sealed (1 sq ft) box, I insulate the interior of my subs w dynamat Xtreme, huge difference!
- if you want a sub that booms, most woofers use a larger ported box, sealed boxes give you more impact.
- sub specs will help you weed out thirsty subs, the higher sensitivity, the louder they play with less power, 87,90,93 sensitivity are 2x power stepping up to the next: 87 db sensitivity will need 2x the power to play as loud as the 90 db, The 87 will need 4x the power to sound as loud as a sub with 93 sensitivity.

My car has 3 boxes of dynamat Xtreme, a decent head unit for the time, an old-school EQ/amp balancer for ease of use, 6 1/2 3-way speakers in front kick pods, 6x9 3-way speakers under rear deck, 3.5" speakers in dash aimed at windshield, single 12" sub in trunk, and a 6 ch amp.
All speakers are 95/96 sensitivity Infinity Kappa, sub is 4 ohm, speakers are 2 ohm, drawing more power from the amp.
The Infinity take a month or so to break in, they are extremely clean, the single 12" with the sub crossover and gain are the most tweaked setting, as you can hear the difference in CD engineering.
Focal, Alpine, JL, Boston all have similar offerings.
You can get free component matching advice from Crutchfield.com, or a trusted local shop.

[junbug79]

2-way or 3 way components set up front. 10" or 12" sub for your rear fill in sealed enclosure. One 5ch or 6ch amp to power the entire system. Arc Audio XDI v2 1000.5 or 1200.6. Use good sound deadener, not made in china stuff the cheap stuff online. I always use STP and ground zero. Russian made butyl has the highest quality. Other deadeners mixes tar with very little butyl like dynamt brands are made in china. Some CCF also if you can swing it cost wise. All wiring should be 100% copper (power and speaker) not CCA wire. The most important part to having a audiophile system is sound deadening. reducing outside noise, rattles is to lower the noise floor. which in turn you dont need a high power 2500 + watt system to hear your music. you can do it easily with under 1000 watts rms system. attention to detail on installation and having quality equipment. It better to get great used equipment rather then new fair new equipment that promise these world claims in performance.