67 Camaro Suspension

[LDB]

I just picked up a nice clean 67 Camaro. My plans for the car are to drive as much as possible, no track time just a nice DD. It currently has stock suspension, with mono leafs in the rear. Could someone help me prioritize the suspension/handling upgrades? With limited funds I'll have to do this over time so if I have an idea of what to buy first that will certainly help. Thank you,

https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113084&stc=1

[Marcus SC&C]

First off, please feel free to give us a call and take advantage of our famous Free Suspension Counseling Service. Make sure you have some time to talk and something to take notes on. :)
1st Gens are great cars but they do have some issues. Lack of adequate chassis structure is a big one. Firmer or solid body mounts are a big help and sub frame are strongly advised. Next up is the totally backward, funky front end geometry. Backward camber curves, super low (under ground!) and wildly unstable roll center (RC) and way too much bump steer are all part of the problem. There are huge gains to be had if you correct those issues and even more if you compliment them with a good modern front end alignment.
Once the big issues are taken care of then you can tune the chassis with springs, shocks and sway bars. For springs DSE or Hotchkis would be top choices. They`ll lower the car for a better stance and firm it up without making it race car stiff. The shocks are the brains of the suspension so you can really make or break the car with them. Bilstein or Koni steel body shocks are classic choices and both are better than stock shocks but honestly both are also old designs that have been badly outclassed by newer shock designs. A great new option is the Varishock SS factory set aluminum shock. For about the price of the old Konis you get a modern digressive valved, rebuild able aluminum shock tuned to work specifically with touring spring rates. Handling and ride are both really exceptional. At this point you`ll have a car that both drives and rides very much like a new one. You can bump up the handling even more with a well chosen set of tubular sway bars. I`m partial to Hellwig`s latest designs but there are other good ones too. We like to run a rear sway bar with more modest rate touring springs like the ones I recommended because we can achieve a nice balanced, light feel to the car without running springs so stiff that the car rides like a lumber wagon. ;) Mark SC&C

[MuscleRodz]

First off, please feel free to give us a call and take advantage of our famous Free Suspension Counseling Service. Make sure you have some time to talk and something to take notes on. :)
1st Gens are great cars but they do have some issues. Lack of adequate chassis structure is a big one. Firmer or solid body mounts are a big help and sub frame are strongly advised. Next up is the totally backward, funky front end geometry. Backward camber curves, super low (under ground!) and wildly unstable roll center (RC) and way too much bump steer are all part of the problem. There are huge gains to be had if you correct those issues and even more if you compliment them with a good modern front end alignment.
Once the big issues are taken care of then you can tune the chassis with springs, shocks and sway bars. For springs DSE or Hotchkis would be top choices. They`ll lower the car for a better stance and firm it up without making it race car stiff. The shocks are the brains of the suspension so you can really make or break the car with them. Bilstein or Koni steel body shocks are classic choices and both are better than stock shocks but honestly both are also old designs that have been badly outclassed by newer shock designs. A great new option is the Varishock SS factory set aluminum shock. For about the price of the old Konis you get a modern digressive valved, rebuild able aluminum shock tuned to work specifically with touring spring rates. Handling and ride are both really exceptional. At this point you`ll have a car that both drives and rides very much like a new one. You can bump up the handling even more with a well chosen set of tubular sway bars. I`m partial to Hellwig`s latest designs but there are other good ones too. We like to run a rear sway bar with more modest rate touring springs like the ones I recommended because we can achieve a nice balanced, light feel to the car without running springs so stiff that the car rides like a lumber wagon. ;) Mark SC&C

Marcus! What rock have you been hiding under? Long time no hear from. LBD, pay attention to Marcus, he is well versed and knowledgable.

[TheJDMan]

One of the first decisions you will need to make is if you will keep your stock subframe or go with one of the many quality aftermarket subframes.

[LDB]

Thank you for the input. At this point there's no way I'll be getting a new subframe, that's just not in the budget. So far here's what I'm planning, sway bars front/rear, new shocks, lowering springs/leafs, and new seats. For now that's about all I can do.

[Marcus SC&C]

Marcus! What rock have you been hiding under? Long time no hear from. LBD, pay attention to Marcus, he is well versed and knowledgable.

Hey Mike! I`ve been around but busy as a one armed paper hanger. It doesn`t leave much time to socialize. Give a call sometime. :)

LDB, that`s a very sensible plan. Not every car needs to be "the ultimate pro touring car". You can build a very nice driving 1st gen with the stock sub frame as long as you select the right bolt ons.

[Freedom_road]

I started out with a stock frame then cleaned it up and made small upgrades as I went along. I added BMB tubular control arms with polyurethane bushings and a poor man’s coil over with QA1’s with a stiffer than stock spring as I could not afford to have a welded and fabricated coil over setup like DSE or others sell. Probably would have stuck with one supplier for all suspension parts if the Hothkis weren’t so expensive at the time.

I also swapped out the mono-springs with Hotchkis multi-leaf springs and front sway bar as they also sell front and rear sway bar kits. I used a 1-1/8” front sway bar with polyurethane bushings. As you add power at a reasonable level a good set of multi-leafs will do fine without crazy traction control devices until to get to the major levels of horsepower. You may need to use shims to mount multi-leaf springs vs. stock mono-leafs unless you weld on different perches. Also, upgrade to over the axle U-bolts for extra safety.

Don’t forget to do an overall safety evaluation of your car and make sure your seat belts and brakes are functioning properly. You can upgrade to disc brakes later as your budget allows.

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[Rod]

Thank you for the input. At this point there's no way I'll be getting a new subframe, that's just not in the budget. So far here's what I'm planning, sway bars front/rear, new shocks, lowering springs/leafs, and new seats. For now that's about all I can do.

I had a super...SUPER tight budget when I started....I would do something like this

springs front and rear......DSE, Hotchkis, global west, CPP
sway bar, front only........the rear is more a track tuning aid.....DSE Hotchkis, Helwig stick with those
Shocks!!....................... yes
subframe bushings..........the money you didnt spend on the rear sway bar goes here!!.... Proforge, global west
tall upper ball joint..........helps camber curve......proforge, Howe

[Rod]

don't be afraid to do one thing at a time while your driving it instead of accumulating it all for a blitz..........I did my car one part a month and I learned and felt how the car reacted to each change

[Freedom_road]

don't be afraid to do one thing at a time while your driving it instead of accumulating it all for a blitz..........I did my car one part a month and I learned and felt how the car reacted to each change

Rodney is right on!
I don't have a rear sway bar either and only drive on the street. Some of my regrets since I don't race is that I used solid aluminum body mounts and solid motor mounts. If I had it to do over I would use polyurethane for a nicer driving experience. They are much better than the stock rubber without beating you up and saves on possibly breaking parts from being over-stiff.

Also, please, please, please if you do any custom work in the future make sure to research the shop or person you will have do the work. Get references and go and see the work in person if possible.
This was by far my biggest issue with work done to my car.

Since I have found a gem of a guy that will do all my future work and he happens to be close to where I live, Billy at B&B Classics. He has a facebook page with plenty of sample pictures and he also is a talented young racer to boot!

[TheJDMan]

Rodney had a plan and worked it over time, the result is an outstandingly well sorted out car. I would just add don't try to mix and match parts from different manufacturers and stay away from ebay parts. Go with a company that can supply all the parts you will need. You can buy in stages but stick with one company.

[LDB]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I do plan on driving and upgrading as I have the funds.

[Marcus SC&C]

Rodney had a plan and worked it over time, the result is an outstandingly well sorted out car. I would just add don't try to mix and match parts from different manufacturers and stay away from ebay parts. Go with a company that can supply all the parts you will need. You can buy in stages but stick with one company.

Buying from one distributor can make the process much easier but buying from one manufacturer only assures that the stickers will match NOT the parts. Don`t assume that every manufacturer makes the best choice in every component, they usually don`t. For example most manufacturers sell packages for these cars that do nothing to address the major suspension and steering geometry issues! That`s a massive oversight and a real shame for the car. Choose parts based on need and merit. Ask yourself how bad does the car need this part? What problems will it solve (if any)? Is it my top priority or is it something that I should be doing later on after I`ve taken care of bigger issues? Am I trying to just make the car look great or do I want it to *drive* great? If you don`t feel confident answering these types of questions then step away from the credit card and get some answers. Buy a book, make some phone calls, don`t be taken in by gimmicks and ad hype, be an informed consumer. It will save a lot of time and money and the car will be better for it.

[trevor572]

Hi, my car is a 68 but they are damn near twins.☺ you have got great advice from knowledgeable people, but don't forget little things like tie rods, bushes etc. and that 48 year old steering box. When I got my car I spent many weekends repairing dodgy wiring and getting everything working as it should, probably the only cost involved was my time. On an older car there are always little things you can do that don't involve a great deal of money and over time and as the money becomes available it all comes together. Cheers.

[TheJDMan]

Buying from one distributor can make the process much easier but buying from one manufacturer only assures that the stickers will match NOT the parts. Don`t assume that every manufacturer makes the best choice in every component, they usually don`t.

So are you saying that if I buy all my suspension parts from say Ridetech for example, the parts will not match? I think I would have to disagree.

[Rod]

For example most manufacturers sell packages for these cars that do nothing to address the major suspension and steering geometry issues! That`s a massive oversight and a real shame for the car.

from what i have done, built and raced, nobody fixes the issues, they just get the geometry closer to optimum

[Marcus SC&C]

It`s not so much about "matching" Steve, that may have been a poorly chosen word. It`s about which components are best for the application. No one company has the very best answer for every component. They do some parts very well (we hope), some are fine BUT someone else does those part even better, and some are going to be kind of lack luster. Think of the suspension like building an engine. You might buy Air Flow Research heads but not AFR pistons, or fuel injection or crankshaft. AFR is really good at cylinder heads but other companies are best at those other items so you cherry pick the best parts and put them together in a cohesive combination. Suspension is no different. Different companies are best at making different components.
What`s more in most cases they`re not actually making all of the components themselves anyway. They`re buying them from someone else in the industry and selling them private label. A "matched" kit from a manufacturer could have as many as 5 companies in different parts of the country making the parts. In fact I can`t think of a single bumper to bumper kit made with part from only one manufacturer. The question is, are those parts chosen because they`re the very best parts for the application or because those other companies give them the best price, most convenient warehousing and shipping, the owners are friends etc.? The parts from a given company are only guaranteed to "match" in that the powder coating will all be the same color and they will have the same stickers on them.

[Marcus SC&C]

from what i have done, built and raced, nobody fixes the issues, they just get the geometry closer to optimum

Rodney, that`s the goal, to get as close to optimum as we can. If one kit gets us much closer and one doesn`t then the choice is easy. :)

[Pete68]

"Nice daily drive"? Keep it simple, keep it OEM. In order of importance:

1. C5 brake swap (with C5 master cylinder)
2. Wheels and tires. 17" at least so you can get performance decent tires (TA radials are junk)
3. Hotchkis rear 3" drop
4. 2" front springs drop (or drop spindle, thats what I used)
5. Thicker front sway bar, hollow is nice, keeps it light. Add a rear bar, it will really liven up the steering response
6. IROC steering box swap
7. LImited slip diff, depending on how you drive you may not need it
6. Replace body mounts

[another69]

Lots of good input here, but listen to SC&C - he knows his stuff. Changing the geometry via tall balljoints & UCAs through SC&C was a really cost effective upgrade to my car. Marcus suggested steel bushings and I thought he was nuts, but they really do not feel harsh to me at all. Plus being close to headers means I do not need to worry about melting delrin (another great option). Whatever you do, don't replace all of your stock bushings with poly. Poly is good for engine mounts and thats about it IMO

[David Pozzi]

What are your expectations & uses for the car?
Will you autocross it or run it on a track?
Lots of street driving?
How important is ride quality?
How much money are you willing to spend?
Would you be doing most of the work yourself?

There are a lot of nice packages on the market for improved ride and handling, Hotchkis falls in this catagory, great tuning for improved handling without geometry changes. They do have A arms for increased caster with Delrin bushings. I think the Ride Tech suspension comes closest to addressing the important factors to have a more competitive car, still retaining the factory subframe: Camber, Caster, Bump-Steer, clearing wider tires at the tie rod ends, spring rate, shocks, even chassis stiffness (Tiger Cage). To run with the fastest cars, it takes a new subframe with 3 or 4 link rear or IRS. In the area of ride quality, a new front sub using Corvette spindles and A arms yields lighter unsprung weight which is better. At the rear, getting away from the leaf spring suspension improves ride, - four link, three link, IRS with IRS being the best for ride.

[LDB]

Thank you Pete. That's exactly what I was after.

[LDB]

David, thank you for taking the time to reply I do appreciate it. My plans for the car are a nice daily driver, no track time. I'm after a nice, reliable, comfortable and safe car. I'll be doing all the work myself as the budget is basically non existent, I'll be buying parts through the summer and installing in the winter.