CURVE BALL FOR YOU .. lost and scratching head

[rickierockit92]

ran into a problem.. my 66 el camino, i bought restored. just checking engine bay yesterday and noticed some of the frame was visible more on one side. (the side with power steering pump and booster) i happened to just measure the sidewall of tire to edge of the fender on both left front and right front. my tire is sticking out about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch more on right front. (heater box, battery side). now i would have some rubbing when making tight turn from that side so that as well pointed me to checking this out. I am not sure if i recognized any of this before. the car drives straight as an arrow, looks straight, stops straight, never pulls etc. just the rubbing and the extra 1/2-3/4 inch on right front towards edge of fender from tire. it looks as almost the body is "off" or not "Aligned" on the frame correctly. checked my fathers 66 chevelle and his is equal on both sides and everything looks good, so now i know something is off. any ideas? any advice? where should i even start? thanks in advance!

P.S. !!!! i did notice though that BOTH body to frame mount bushings/bolts were completely loose and one was missing the nut. these are the ones on each side of the radiator.. could they have just come loose and let the front end of the body shift over? could i just maybe push or pry body back to correct stance upfront and tighten. very frustrating. thanks again.

[Arrowhead]

By moving the core support over, you are turning the hood opening into a trapezoid instead of of a rectangle and your hood won't play nice. How does the hood fit now? Just be prepared to spend some time realigning the hood if you make the adjustment to the core support. It could be a sign that the other panels are gaped / lined up improperly and someone "cheated" by having the core support radically offset to compensate. Differing panel gaps from one side to the other can cause the fenders to not be square to each other. My guess is the corners of the hood don't line up with the corners of the fenders either. If all the panels are aligned perfectly from the start, you might want to check the frame for straightness.

[dhutton]

I would check the camber on both sides before jumping to any conclusions.

Don

[rickierockit92]

By moving the core support over, you are turning the hood opening into a trapezoid instead of of a rectangle and your hood won't play nice. How does the hood fit now? Just be prepared to spend some time realigning the hood if you make the adjustment to the core support. It could be a sign that the other panels are gaped / lined up improperly and someone "cheated" by having the core support radically offset to compensate. Differing panel gaps from one side to the other can cause the fenders to not be square to each other. My guess is the corners of the hood don't line up with the corners of the fenders either. If all the panels are aligned perfectly from the start, you might want to check the frame for straightness.


the corners of the hood DO NOT LINE up even with the coners of the fender, but it closes.. the front quarter panel on the left front of vehicle (the side with power steering assembly, brake booster etc) is also "bowed" out so to speak at the bottom where it meets the door. if i was to push it back in it will not fit correclty and the door would hit it. i am guessing who ever put everything back together never did it properly or they did "cheat". does this sound like a bent frame? or just mis-aligned? would i have to take off quarter panels and re-install it all to fix the problem? thanks again in advance.

[Arrowhead]

I agree, you should check on you camber first to make sure you are chasing the right problem. You also might want to measure your frame diagonally to make sure it's square

How are the door gaps to the rear? All these panel gaps "stack up" so if they are way off it throws the front end off too. It sounds like if you move the drivers fender forward and get a proper gap to the door so it closes, it will allow you to center the core support and realign the hood (depending on how it's sitting now). Can you post up some pictures? (hood and fender corners, door gaps, etc.)

BTW, let's just use "drivers side" or "passengers side" so we don't get confused :)

[Death trap]

It is a full frame car and the body might not be square on the frame especially if there are body bushings loose. I would start by traming out the frame to check for square, like stated by arrowhead. Then maybe try to measure symmetrical points on the rocks to symmetrical points on the frame and compare to make sure the body is square on the frame. Checking caster is also not a bad idea.

[rickierockit92]

I will check the caster for sure. I diagonally measured the frame today (best I could while on the ground). It looked good and matched up. When I measured the frame to body on both sides ... One side was about 3/4 of an inch farther out (passenger side which is weird Bc That's the same side that the front tire is close to fender) maybe the whole body is shifter .. As stated above. The hood is not perfect.. The doors are not perfect. I have a feeling whomever did the body work (since I purchased it like this) cut some corners. I'll have to correct them. As long as the frame is good I am sleeping better at night. Thanks guys for the help! I will keep this updated when I get things straighter!

[Arrowhead]

That's good your frame is square. You want to check camber, not caster. Camber is when the tire is tilted when looking at it from the front and it is adjustable. It should be straight up and down with maybe a very little tilt in at the top depending on your cars specs. A quick and dirty way to check is to put a level vertically on the side of the tire (avoiding the bulge at the bottom of the tire where it meets the ground). You can at least see if both tires are cambered equally.

I'd have a hard time believing the body is set crooked on the frame. There's not much give in the body mounts, only the core support has any adjustment as far as I know. Take a look to see if the frame rails are parallel with the rockers and the rockers have the same gap to the frame rails on both sides of the car. If they are, the problem should be in the front somewhere. Might want to check the squareness of the frame from the cowl forward (not sure where you already checked). Might have been hit in the corner at some time and just tweaked the front rails. Check your suspension too. Bad ball joints, suspension bushings, etc. can all "stack up" to throw off the front end too.

[rickierockit92]

The frame rail on the passenger rear is about 3/4 of an inch farther from the rocker then the driver side ..... But it's also the passenger front tire that is closer to the fender. When you say "cowl forward" could you specify for me? Thanks. I'll be making more measurement soon. Hopefully just a suspension issue as it is updated. QA1's in the front. Before noticing this I hit a nasty pot hole with the passenger front. Would that throw something out of whack? And as stated before the two front bushings (located on both side of radiator were completely loose) as well

[rickierockit92]

Did the "quick" check of camber. (Use leveler on the side wall of tire best I could and it obviously looks like the passenger front has more positive camber then that driver side.. I hit a nasty pot hole with that wheel. Could that throw it out of adjustment?

[Arrowhead]

Sure could, might have bent a suspension part (although I thought your tire had been rubbing all along). Sounds like it would be worth bringing it to a shop just to check the alignment. They will be able to check all four wheels at the same time and at least let you know if the problem is isolated to one wheel.

Sounds like you have a lot going on and it's probably a combination of things. I'd get the suspension / alignment straightened out and go from there.

[rickierockit92]

The car is lowered which I'm sure doesn't help the running lol. But I am going to put it on the alignment racks today and see what's going on. Keep this thread posted. Thanks again

[rickierockit92]

Rubbing*

[indyjps]

These cars are old and well used before we ever started restoring them. Had a 69 camaro that was dead straight on panel gaps, but the rear tires never sat right, turns out it had been lightly hit in the passenger rear and new quarters put on. The car tracked straight and I wasn't cutting the quarter off and repainting it. Ended up cutting the spring mounting pads and recentering the rear. It launched hard and straight so that's how it stayed.

See if a local body shop will throw it on a frame rack to see where you are, it could have bent rails. Decide from there if you want to replace body bushings and square body to frame, then rehang and regap your front sheetmetal. Tape your panel edges up well and buy a lot of shims in different thicknesses. It can be a long process and takes 2 people that communicate well to avoid banging up the paint.