No Limit Sniper IFS test car. The Roach

[RobNoLimit]

Here we go. To show the abilities of our new IFS we needed to put out a car that we could not only show the build, but drive it, and let others drive it. While searching for prospects (I wanted a Firebird) we came across what we 'thought' was a pretty solid car and a good buy. A trip out to Maryland showed the car to be a little less than represented. But, some haggling and discussion and we loaded the car up and headed home. Once we got it in the shop, and on the rack, it shows that we may not have haggled enough. That's life. So, we've got this '68 and we're moving forward. It took about 20 minutes in the shop and the guys started calling it "the Roach" so there it is.

The name is probably fitting, as we don't plan on building a 'pretty' car to start with. The car needs to show the performance and ability of the suspension on it's own. No big motors, no fancy trans, no slick paint. We're going to use a standard small block 355 and a TH350. The front suspension will be our new Sniper IFS, but with no big upgrades. We will be using a single adjustable RideTech coil-over, the standard .250 wall sway bar, and 13", 4 piston brakes. For the driver there will be a pair of Pro-Car seats, an IDIDIT column, and the stock pedals, complete with a 1" 'vette iron master cyl. Out back, we will be fitting the car with a 3-link, coil-overs and a 9" ford rear. Subframe connectors, a 4-point bar (mostly for harness mounts) and some mini tubbs will finish the package.

Starting with a running/driving car was supposed to make the build easier, but we'll see about that. We have already installed the DSE mini-tubbs, and doing so discovered some cleverly hidden rust that needed mending. We've started on the rear suspension and decided that we will have to rewire the car, so most of the OE wiring is out. The subframe is built, and ready to go in, and we test fitted some headers for clearance. No problems, although, all of the long tube headers that we tried hung down way below the subframe rails, so we're going to use a 3/4 length header. We hope to have this car back on the road in a few short moths, so the build will be quick. Simplicity is the key for this one.

[andrewb70]

Looking forward to more.

Andrew

[Peter Mc Mahon]

This is going to be good! The car will be at events for people to drive? That's awesome Get back to work

[DJW32]

I'll be watching this thread.

[wfo guy]

"Sure it's a good solid car and I drive it all the time." Why would you ask? Seller to buyer, again. :) Looking forward to this, Rob. Will the new front end be able to take 7" back space wheels?

[no go nova]

Can't wait to see what your car stuff can do. Hint next time do a 66-67 NOVA.

[DJW32]

What kind of radiator do you guys plan on running?

[RobNoLimit]

"Sure it's a good solid car and I drive it all the time." Why would you ask? Seller to buyer, again. :) Looking forward to this, Rob. Will the new front end be able to take 7" back space wheels?

The spec wheel would be a 18 x 11 with 8 1/4" back, an 18 x 10 1/2 with 7 3/4" back, or an 18 x 10 with a 7 1/4" back. These will keep the front face in the same location. An 18 x 10 or an 18 x 9 1/2 with 7" of backspace would fit as well.

[RobNoLimit]

What kind of radiator do you guys plan on running?

We usually build a radiator with a Howe core for most of our projects, but for this one, due to the timeline we may look toward an "off the shelf" part. Any input would be welcome.

[Larry Callahan]

Nice!

[omiotek]

Have you used the bell cores? How makes great stuff no doubt but I'm partial to the bell products and use them with all my intercoolers and what not. I haven't built any one off custom stuff or older car stuff but I use them on the sport compact world

[DJW32]

Howe does offer a drop in unit for Camaros.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

We usually build a radiator with a Howe core for most of our projects, but for this one, due to the timeline we may look toward an "off the shelf" part. Any input would be welcome.

I've got one that will fit!

[RobNoLimit]

Just got off the phone with Justin @ Entropy and we have a new Radiator on the way. With fans and shroud. That's one of the check list.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Thanks again, Rob!

Can't wait to see it on there!

[RobNoLimit]

Made some progress on the underside. As we are working on the rear suspension, we are also working to tie the car together. And, the Roach needs it. Some floor pans have been replaced or repaired, and the rear sub rails have been weakened by nature. Working on some other F-bodies, I have noticed that it is common that the forces from loading the tire hard (with 4-bar and leaf cars) will 'push' the front spring pocket forward and start to bend the rear sub rails. Subframe connectors are the common answer. When it comes to these mods, you can go for the minimum (bolt-on sub connector) or the maximum (full tube chassis car). We wanted to get all of the added strength that we could, without a full chassis. As we put in the connectors, we are planning for the rear suspension mounts to tie into them, as well as the cage.

We are starting with 3" x 4" x .120" wall tubing. We cut the profile on a waterjet to fit the OE floor pan. A 4" wide pocket needs to be cut into the floor. We have a template to help with this. Once the pocket is cut the connectors are fitted into place. Some light grinding is required to get a perfect fit. The body is set level and square, side to side, and front to back. Once the connectors fit into place they are squared up and set level, then welded in. Next we will cap the ends, and later connect to the new subframe and the rear sub rails.

[RobNoLimit]

Some more progress. The inner fenders are cleaned up. We widened them 1 1/4" to the inside and raised them at the outer lip. The subframe connectors are welded in fully on the top and bottom.

[PhillipM]

Any pictures of the widening taking place?

[carbuff]

^ I'm curious about that too. It's not obvious to me where it's done, since I don't know the first gens nearly as well as the seconds.

[RobNoLimit]

Well, the guys widened the inners fenders so fast that they didn't get any picts. I'm going to do another set, starting with some better (less rust ) inners and make some molds. I'll post up the mod picts as I go on that one.

Next up. I'm still focusing on the "tie the car together" plan. We have the subframe connectors welded in, and have set in the subframe (and an OE sub to compare) a few times. For some general knowledge, we tried a set of urethane mounts, some stock height solid mounts, and a 1/2" drop solid mount set. They all fit fine and line up nice. In the end I would like to use solid mounts under the body, and rubber or urethane on the core support. I like the idea of the 1/2" drop mounts, just to clean up the sight line under the car. But, with the 1/2" mounts in place, the subframe contacted the floor in a few places, only slightly, but enough to cause noise/vibration. We tried the 1/2" drop mounts with the OE sub, same thing. So, we put 1/8" spacer (fabbed 3" washer) under the four body mounts, and everything fits great. So really, we have a 3/8" drop mount set. I can use the urethane core support mounts and cut them down to fit.

Our Sniper subframe has four welded thread inserts for connecting to subframe connectors, and we plan on using them, be we wanted more strength in the middle of the car. Plus, our pinch welds under the rockers don't look so good. The welded subframe connector and the new Sniper subframe fit nice, and fitting the connector tabs will be easy. To add more strength, clean up the belly, and add some side-impact safety, we fabbed up some bolt-in side rails. The idea is to tie the rocker, "A" pillar, and "B" pillar to the subframe connector and front and rear suspension.

The outer strip is basically a big long washer. Next time we're going to add some length to the back for a better look, taking it all the way to the back of the pinch weld. Using the strip as a guide, we drilled our the holes in the rocker pinch weld. These are 9/32" holes, for 1/4" hardware. With the holes drilled out, we cleaned up both sides of the pinch weld. - Hey, we don't call it the Roach for nuthin. Yep, found some more hidden rust. The next piece is formed to fit from the inside of the pinch weld inward to the subframe and connector. There is appx 3/8" gap from the edge of the side rail to the subframe. Threaded lugs are pre-welded to the back side of the rail so that it can be bolted to the rocker pinch weld. We used 1/4" x 1" bolts for now, we will switch to SST button heads later.

The next step will be to connect the side rail to the subframe and connectors. We have six tabs that bolt to the side rail and will be welded to the subframe and connectors, three tabs on each, two bolts per tab. Once finished this should add considerable strength and stability to the center of the car. I'll get some finished picts up in a few days.

[RobNoLimit]

It's like Christmas in May! Got these in today for the Roach. Seams a bit too nice for the car, but you gotta have some bling. They are sweet! Thanks Forgeline for doing a great job, as usual. Had a used set of 315's to mount up for fitment. This is a look at Ride Height. Rear suspension is almost done, trans is done, gear set is here, brakes are here. Need to run some plumbing before we start to re-assemble.

[DJW32]

Rob,

Are these the deep concave rims?

[RobNoLimit]

The rears are, the fronts are the standard concave. Wheel in picts is a rear

[srh3trinity]

Nice choice! The new IFS looks cool.

[BayouSS]

All looks good Rob, cannot wait to see the finished product. Love those Forgelines.

[RobNoLimit]

While the front is going back together, and we're waiting for the trans to get back (mild freshening up of the TH350), we've been laying out plans for the rear suspension. As I said before, I'm a newbee to the F-body particulars and some things are really starting to settle in. We really want to do an offset 3-link. But, if we're going to do this, we have our own rules to follow.

1. It has to work. Really well.
2. We have to be able to duplicate it, at some reasonable level.
3. It has to be available in a kit form that others can install and duplicate the performance.
4. it has to be user friendly, so that others will choose and install, and be able to duplicate the success.

Now, add to that, Easy to set up, easy to tune, and give the user some choices to fit their goals. So, our plans include 3-link, low mount panhard bar, coil-over assembly, sway bar, mounting and bracing, and a new housing/axles if desired. The design work of the 3-link is easy. You start with the wheelbase, axle height, weight and weight balance..... put it in a program and we can work out the mounting points for the bars to get the desired instant center, anti squat, roll steer and roll center..... Now, fitting that in the car is the tricky part, doing this within our rules makes it even tougher. For our project car we are using a Moser 9" ford with 31 spline floating axles and a WMS width of 56". (If I had it to do over I would go with 58") The Moser 9" has straight 3" tubes for easy mounting, so the axle side mounts are not to tough. We will be using a pivit-ball end on the links to allow full articulation and a quiet ride. now on to the chassis side of things.

Starting with the lower bars, we set the length in a range that would let us mount them in the OE spring pocket area. Here's where the learning curve hit. We had the OE pocket/cup for the leaf, and the hardware. Really? Three nut-clips in some sheet metal hold in the spring? So that's what transfers 600+ HP to the ground on these cars, OK. But not going to work for us. Besides, our car is on the rough side, and there's a little rust in that area.

[RobNoLimit]

Now I know that she's no peach, but I'll bet this is pretty normal. And if not rusted all the way through, most rails here are weaker than on day 1. Our front lower bar mount will be a weld-in part. The Pivit mounting has a through bolt and sleeve, so a notch must be cut to install. These will come assembled as shown and pre-fitted to the rails bends. As well as being welded in place, there is a bolt pad that sits on the top side of the floor to help pull the mount up tight.

[RobNoLimit]

I know this looks pretty rough, but this is the truth of what we're working with. The cut notch allows the mount sleeve to fit up into the rail section. We did not repair the rust because soon it wont matter. We did use a liberal amount of rust sealer once the area was cleaned and before the mount were pushed up. The mounts nest tight up to the floor section as a front stop to locate them, they also line up with the OE mount holes. Once in place, three holes are drill in each side through the floor and the top plates are bolted in. This helps to pull the new mounts the rest of the way up. once in place, they are welded in. The large holes (not welded yet) are there to plug weld through to the OE rail. Slow and steady, don't over heat the metal. Now we have some lower mounts that can handle to torque. There is one more brace to add, from the new mount out to the rocker pinch weld seam. The aluminum spacer is there to hold the width during welding.

Ok, I am looking for feedback, positive or negative. Let me have it.

[brawls43]

I like how it looks. As an amateur welder/fab guy, I think this is something I could handle to cut and weld in. Having done a set of subframe connectors, where you had to do a lot of trimming to get a good fit, I like how this looks. I like the idea of having the 3 bolts pull the mount up tight and hold it for welding. As opposed to having to hold it or brace it and have it shift a little during install.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I know this looks pretty rough, but this is the truth of what we're working with. The cut notch allows the mount sleeve to fit up into the rail section. We did not repair the rust because soon it wont matter. We did use a liberal amount of rust sealer once the area was cleaned and before the mount were pushed up. The mounts nest tight up to the floor section as a front stop to locate them, they also line up with the OE mount holes. Once in place, three holes are drill in each side through the floor and the top plates are bolted in. This helps to pull the new mounts the rest of the way up. once in place, they are welded in. The large holes (not welded yet) are there to plug weld through to the OE rail. Slow and steady, don't over heat the metal. Now we have some lower mounts that can handle to torque. There is one more brace to add, from the new mount out to the rocker pinch weld seam. The aluminum spacer is there to hold the width during welding.

Ok, I am looking for feedback, positive or negative. Let me have it.

Rob, I am an amateur at all this so take it as such, but in the first picture if the top edge of the rounded portion was not as rounded, it would be easier to weld to the stock OE? [Where the floor boards curve up]

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Like the way it looks..how's the rest of the car coming along?

[RobNoLimit]

Rob, I am an amateur at all this so take it as such, but in the first picture if the top edge of the rounded portion was not as rounded, it would be easier to weld to the stock OE? [Where the floor boards curve up]

We did that to reduce the shear load on the OE panel. But yes, it would be easier to weld, there's a give/take there.

[RobNoLimit]

coming along nicely. We'll be showing off your parts soon.

[Rod]

dang I like them!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/05/photo108_zpsixe4az3k-1.jpg

[wfo guy]

Rob, the only downside I thought of was the factory tolerances on the attaching area. If the initial description states that you need skills and this isn't for someone who hasn't ever fit and welded before, I would think you would have satisfied customers. I observe that there is about 3 levels of work that happens in today's market place: absolute bolt on, it better be dummy proof! Some cutting and welding, skills and some exp. required. Advance skills needed because of equipment and knowledge needed to install the purchased parts and the ability to adjust after the install. Almost nothing is in the first category which causes unhappy people. Due to production and oem tolerances, most items require fitting. people aren't expecting that. I would think that the customer for this would be the second or 3rd skill level so they would be satisfied after they were done.

[DJW32]

It looks good. I hope D.Pozzi pops in here and gives us his two cents.

[RobNoLimit]

Working away on the project has brought in some debate in the shop. Panhard vs. Watts, and now, 3 Link vs. Torque arm.

The first one is easy for me. Although I run a Watts link (sideways under the diff) on the HellBoy, I am a believer in the tuning aspects of a panhard rod - When PROPERLY done. Most commonly available panhard rod set ups are too short, and mounted too high - IMHO. Most of this has to do with "packaging" and making a product that is "sell-able" and can have successful installation results. - Looks too different = doesn't sell. Too hard to install = doesn't sell. That's just the market. The "Too short" part usually has to do with those dang coil-overs in the way, and the "Too high" part has a lot to do with what there is to mount to. We decided that the roll center location is more important than those other pesky things, like coil-overs and available mount locations. We know the front roll center of the Sniper IFS, and we want the rear roll center to be about 1 1/2" higher than that, and have some tuning range. What we came up with will be included in the Sniper rear suspension package. Not for the faint of heart.

The picture is of the basic big pieces, there are a few small brace pieces not shown. The "Axle side mount of the Panhard rod is part of the lower link mount.

[RobNoLimit]

Ok, so you Will be able to see this from outside the car. Mostly from behind the wheel on the passenger side. Maybe it looks a little crazy, but we're OK with that. The chassis side mount is designed for use with a mini-tub and trimmed down rail section. I doubt we will bother to make this to fit a stock tub and rail. The cross brace is fitted to a small mount tab on the drivers side, and also attaches to a portion of the trunk pan.

[RobNoLimit]

- Forgot to mention this. The brace rab is bent in that goofy step to allow for exhaust clearance.

The Panhard bar itself is now 38 1/4" center to center. On the chassis side we are using on of our poly lined pivot ball adjusters (left hand thread), this helps reduce NVH. On the axle side it's a high-misalignment rod end. (right hand thread). In 6" of travel there is .107" of side shift. So, from ride height to full compression (based on a level bar) will yield less than .060". now, if you've been following following along on some of the advanced discussion you may have alreadt thought - Hmm, if you mount the axle side slightly lower than the chassis side, then the axle shift will be about half, or .030". Yeah I know some caught that.

[RobNoLimit]

Oh yeah, about that 3-link vs. Torque arm discussion. We decided we can't decide. So, we're going to build the car to run both. - No, not at the same time. Look, the lower links, panhard rod, coil-overs and sway bar would be in the same place either way. So, if we put in both sets of mounts, we can swap from a 3-link to the torque arm in a hour or so. And then we'll settle it the old fashion way - with a Shoot-Out.

[GrabberGT]

Oh yeah, about that 3-link vs. Torque arm discussion. We decided we can't decide. So, we're going to build the car to run both. - No, not at the same time. Look, the lower links, panhard rod, coil-overs and sway bar would be in the same place either way. So, if we put in both sets of mounts, we can swap from a 3-link to the torque arm in a hour or so. And then we'll settle it the old fashion way - with a Shoot-Out.

Cant wait to read the results of this comparison. We've seen the 3-link vs tri 4-bar before but not vs torque arm. I've been considering swapping out my torque arm for a 3-link for some time. Benefits would be added tunability, less weight, and it wont be in the way of things like exhaust and drive shaft which is a pain when its time to work on the car.

[RobNoLimit]

The challenge for a torque arm build is really in the mounting of the torque arm at each end. No doubt there are many ways to skin this cat, and a lot of them can be found here. We are taking a an approach that may be a bit simpler, and more complicated. Our approach is more permanent, with some weld in parts. This may be easier for us to make the parts, and easier for some to install, but it is more permanent. But, it does make the car more rigid, and most can be removed. All except the front crossmember and some tabs on the housing. As we had previously welded in the subframe connectors, it seamed reasonable to weld in the bridge crossmember. If we decide that we don't like the torque arm, the bridge will stay in. On the plus side, it helps add some more rigidity to the car, so we like that. There isn't much room under the car, as you all know, so any space is at a premium. We plotted and measured the underside of the car and built a bridge from .135 sheet and fitted with crush tubes to allow us to really tighten up the hardware. Also some passage ways for wiring and plumbing.

Anyway, we made patterns and cut parts to fit the floor, we planned for exhaust and plumbing, and the dropped portion of the Trailing Arm mounts will also act as a driveshaft safety loop.

[RobNoLimit]

While we have been making progress it's been slower than planned due to the Sniper IFS sales. So it's not all that bad. We are just about ready to put the IFS under the car now. We had a few changes to make. The 8" balancer for the 383 just barely rubbed the sway bar, so we put a 6" balancer on it. We decided to fab up some of the exhaust while the sub was out of the car, it's a lot easier. Test fitting the eng/trans into the sub is something that I highly recommend. It just makes things easier down the line. For the picts I bolted on the side rail stiffeners to show how they mount. These attatch to the rocker pinch weld and can also be connected to the subframe connectors. Yes, we are finally going to put the Sniper sub in the car.

[rchaskin]

Awesome!!

Go ahead and pencil me in a slot to drive this thing at Charlotte GoodGuys!!!

[RobNoLimit]

Awesome!!

Go ahead and pencil me in a slot to drive this thing at Charlotte GoodGuys!!!

I hope we make it there with the car, and if we do, your in.

[RobNoLimit]

We're finally going to put the Sniper subframe in. We're using solid 'short' mounts. We learned in trail fitment that a 3/16 spacer was requires under the center mounts on each side. Everything went right into place. The guys put the bolts in snug, and then moved the sub around to get it centered up, then tightened the main bolts. Then the subframe connector tabs. and last, the new side rail kit.

[RobNoLimit]

The side rail kit goes in with ease now. The connector tabs have already been welded in place from the test fit, and all the holes were drilled in the pinch weld. So, it's just bolts and wrenches. The plan here is to gain a few things at once. 1) Strengthen the factory connection from rocker to the 'A' and 'B' pillars. 2) Provide a stronger connection from the subframe to the subframe connector, and in so doing so, a stronger and more rigid placement of the subframe. and 3) Clean up the line on the bottom of the car. We used regular hex bolts for now, I think we're going to swap for some brushed stainless button heads down the the road.

[brawls43]

What brakes did you end up using?

[rchaskin]

I hope we make it there with the car, and if we do, your in.

Thats what I'm talking about.....I'll be ready.:naughty::naughty:

[RobNoLimit]

What brakes did you end up using?

We are running TBM (Brake Man) 13" x .812" wave cut rotors on all four corners. With TBM 4 piston calipers all around. The rears have smaller pistons than the fronts.

[RobNoLimit]

Had to have a look with the wheel/tire on. How's that for steering angle. 32 degrees baby!. The side shot is at full droop, the suspension will compress 3" to RH. Can't wait.

[RobNoLimit]

Here's some of the "Want" list. .... balance bar brake set up, hydrolic clutch master, (for future swap) OE pedals and firewall bracing, adjustable pedal ratio, no firewall carving....... Not possible you say? No Limit I say.

[brawls43]

We are running TBM (Brake Man) 13" x .812" wave cut rotors on all four corners. With TBM 4 piston calipers all around. The rears have smaller pistons than the fronts.

Nice! Thought it looked like the TBM stuff.

[Rod]

Here's some of the "Want" list. .... balance bar brake set up, hydrolic clutch master, (for future swap) OE pedals and firewall bracing, adjustable pedal ratio, no firewall carving....... Not possible you say? No Limit I say.

dang!

[RobNoLimit]

More on the master conversion. We are now in version 3.0. Slight slotting of the lower mounting holes allow the same unit to fit a variety of vehicles, including Nova, Chevelle (A-body), and C10 trucks. I'm sure there are others due to the GM design concept of product duplication. The pivot shaft has been raised to help stabilize the input rods and reduce input angle change. We now have two link mounting holes for the link that connects to the stock pedal. You can choose 6.25 - 1, or 5.5 - 1 effective pedal ratios. One hole needs to be drilled in the OE clutch pedal, 2" down from the pedal pivot. Also, for the clutch, a 1" pass through hole needs to be drilled in the firewall for the clutch link rod.
We have chosen to use Wilwood masters with plastic reservoirs. I like these, they have a bleed port at the end of the cylinder, and the plastic reservoir makes it easy to see the fluid levels. I'll get some install picts in a few days.

[Hugger67RSSS]

I need one of those master setups badly, interested to see the final version and price. Awesome work Rob

[RobNoLimit]

I need one of those master setups badly, interested to see the final version and price. Awesome work Rob

We are now in the first production run of the master mounts. Should have them avail in early Nov.

[RobNoLimit]

Getting some more done finally. The original plan was to keep the car as OE intact as we could. To make this a "bolt-together" project. When it comes to the mini-tub upgrade, that's sort of outside the plan of 'bolt-on'. Following that work and skill set, we had decided that the weld-in sub connector was in line with the mini tub work. The cage is also a weld-in, but for the safety we thought this was OK. Now to the rear suspension. We really want to be able to swap from a Torque Arm to a 3-link at any time (with an hour of work) to test out and see which is really the better choice. I have done this lately with the HellBoy and there are gains/losses (more on that later) The lower bars, panhard bar, coil-over and sway bar will be the same on each set-up, and all are tunable. Only the top link and torque arm will swap in and out.

I can totally understand why Hotchkis has had difficulty bringing a 3-link kit to market. Fitting the top link and more importantly, the front (chassis) mount for the top link, in a "bolt-on" manor, with any real strength, is almost impossible. We fabbed a 16 ga. rear tunnel section with a mount set incorporated that was to replace the OE rear tunnel along with some added bracing. It worked, yet required a lot of fab and fitting. - If you thing the mini-tub job is a pain, then this was too much. There just isn't much structure there to work with. Add in that our fine specimen, the El Roacho, had a lot of rust in the rear seat pan, and we finally gave in and accepted the idea that there will be no back seat, and no stock-ish rear seat pan. Once we crossed that line, things got a lot easier. We chopped out a large section of the rotted floor, from rail to rail and from the seat pan ledge back to the trunk rib double panel. All of the OE seams were welded, and a second, lower cross tube was added to the roll bar. Next we made a nice, strong top link rib that fits from the new crossbar back to the trunk rib. This will be the top mount for the 3-link and is plenty strong enough to take the beating. We have started to panel off the new raised tunnel area, and the interior will have a nice, flat shelf for groceries, golf clubs, pit gear, or Tina's dogs. Just no back seat. The raised shelf will also give us more room under the car, so we will raise the mufflers up so that they are flush with the side rails, not hanging down. BTW, with this added bracing, the car 'sounds' much more solid.

[justanova]

Rob,

how much if any of the rear setup will crossover to the 68-72 nova's? or are you planning on developing a rear setup for the nova? I love the looks of the front setup and am leaning toward that on my 72 when I get back on that project.

[RobNoLimit]

Most of the parts would cross over with very litle or no mods. I am still wondering about the viability of this rear suspension in kit form, there is a lot of fab work. - but it does work awesome.

[RobNoLimit]

Here is a look from under the car. There is plenty of room now, and the three link is easy to get to. The upper bar needs a 20* bend to clear the floor at full compression, so unfortunately the link must be disconnected on one end for 'top bar' pinion angle adjustments. Once this is dialed in all other tuning would usually be done with the bottom bars. The rear axle is a Mosier Floater 9" with TBM brakes. While there is room under the car for the coil-over and sway bar, the coil-overs would have to be 4" stroke, and the sway bar would limit a little bit of axle movement in compression. So, we put pockets in the frame rail and used a pushrod and rocker set up to put the coil-overs and sway bar in the trunk. This was planned in with the cage construction early on. Also we put in an access hole for the EFI pump.

[justanova]

Most of the parts would cross over with very litle or no mods. I am still wondering about the viability of this rear suspension in kit form, there is a lot of fab work. - but it does work awesome.

That's understandable as its a fine line to walk having to rely on the customer to complete the fab work competently. so would the car have to come to you for install or I wonder if at that point if it would be just as easy to offer a complete "rear clip" or something similar to like a back half drag car type deal?

[RobNoLimit]

We could do an install for you, this would include the mini tubb (unless already done), and the cage work. The whole reason for this car is to introduce people to other ideas. The Roach should be in Nashville for the GoodGuys and many others next year, come on out and take a ride, and maybe drive it around town a bit. This way you will know what to expect.

[justanova]

We could do an install for you, this would include the mini tubb (unless already done), and the cage work. The whole reason for this car is to introduce people to other ideas. The Roach should be in Nashville for the GoodGuys and many others next year, come on out and take a ride, and maybe drive it around town a bit. This way you will know what to expect.

If you make it to the Des Moines goodguys Ill definitely have to come check it out. I have been following this since you intro'd the sniper suspension as I like the outside the box approach.

[Subsea69]

Should be plenty of room for over axle exhaust system?

Dwayne

[RobNoLimit]

Wow, it's been a while. We've been picking at the car for some time, and doing some shake downs. First impressions are that the car is really solid, and very smooth. I'm not really used to the auto trans, but I can definitely see the value on the launch and the 1-2 shift. The 383 SBC still needs a little bit of tuning with the FI-Tech and MSD dist, but it is pretty strong. I'd est around 380hp at the tire. Not huge, but the torque is good.

Initial shake down drives showed a few things. We had a vibration in the driveline. Turns out we were 1 1/2 degrees off on the pinion angle. Fortunately, all the rear links have LH / RH ends, so adjusting the pinion angle was easy. Clearing off my four post lift to put the car on - not so much. Pinion angle needs to be set with the suspension loaded (full weight). When we first took the car out, it was just on a base assembly, no real alignment, and it still felt pretty good. After a full alignment and RH set on scales to balance the car, it feels really good. Not as heavy as I thought. 3380 total, wet, no driver. But, a little nose heavy. 54%, or 1825 lbs. The good new is how well balanced the car is. LF = 910, RF = 914, LR = 776, RR = 780. Wheel base is set at 108.25", and the alignment is Camber -1*, Caster +8.5*, Toe out 3/16". These front clips turn a massive 39* of steering angle, But, with an 11" wide front wheel, there was a slight rub at full lock from the wheel lip on the control arm. The steering stops were adjusted to stop at 37*, and no more rub. The car will still U-turn on a narrow Tn street. The steering feels good, the "pump assist" does not. I wanted to try a stock '70s GM pump. No good. There almost no assist at idle to 1600 RPM. So, a call has been made to Turn One for a solution. New pump is in route.

We did a little sound check and at full throttle, up hill in front of our shop, the highest recorded was 89 db at 50 feet. I am so tired of having the nice folks at an SCCA event coming to chat with us over sound issues. Having a sound level way in the clear is kinda nice. Smooth tone and no drone. Maybe I'm getting a little older, but noise and power/speed are not the same thing. If all goes well I'll be taking the car out to the Auto-Cross Guys event June 22/23 at Smokies Stadium here in east Tn. I'll post up some better picts and event info after that.

[RobNoLimit]

More seat time. So, we adjusted the pinion angle to match the crank. No more driveline vibrations. The FI Tech unit is starting to get close, it starts, idles good and runs smooth. Power seams good. I have to admit that I may not be used to a 'non-overdrive' transmission. The TH-350 shifts great, with the vale body and converter. 1rst is a little short. In hind sight, a 3.50 gear would have been a better choice than the 3.73. 1rst and 2nd have engine breaking, and it is fun to drive it around feeling half like a stick and half like an auto. The rad and cooling system work great. We have the fans coming on at intervals, 190 and 200, the second fan hardly runs. The current tires are Falken 615's, from around 2014. They were take offs from the HellBoy, and have flat spots from a speed-stop event. Several burn outs may be required to smooth them out. The car rides so smooth and quiet that you can hear the flat spot more than feel them. As of yet, the P/S pump is still a P.O.S. pump. Soon. We swapped to a calmer Wilwood "E" pad all around, and there is no brake squeal or chatter. Very smooth and great stopping power. SO, what are mu overall thoughts? well, we do have the car up for sale, but, it is fun to drive, and it has a cool personality. If it's around here through the winter it may get a different trans, 200R or 700R or the likes. This car with an OD would be a great road car. I wasn't going to put a stereo in it, but, that looks like it's going to change as well. Again, too much fun to drive. So, a few more updates and fixes, but doing well. 1500 miles on the clock.

[justanova]

Car looks great. Any more info on that huge box that the tailpipes come out of?

[RobNoLimit]

The huge box is a muffler. So, here's the story. If you do the standard Magnaflow, Flowmaster, Spintech, or Black Widow (which we helped Bill develop) with any compression and/or HP you will blow the sound meter at any SCCA event. The HellBoy does (or did), Tina's Mustang does, Keith's 'Velocity' Camaro does, and, we're tired of it. so, got to quiet it down some. So, I built a muffler with a large dead cell crossover. It's a multi-tasker. It's a muffler, cross-over, drive shaft safety loop, and bottom side Aero device. It weighs about 36 lbs, so about the same as two FLowmasters. It has a great low tone, no drone or rattle, and blew a 91 db at WOT at a local SCCA event. And, it doesn't hang down under the car. So, it's different, but it does everything I wanted it to do. Win - win.

[justanova]

The huge box is a muffler. So, here's the story. If you do the standard Magnaflow, Flowmaster, Spintech, or Black Widow (which we helped Bill develop) with any compression and/or HP you will blow the sound meter at any SCCA event. The HellBoy does (or did), Tina's Mustang does, Keith's 'Velocity' Camaro does, and, we're tired of it. so, got to quiet it down some. So, I built a muffler with a large dead cell crossover. It's a multi-tasker. It's a muffler, cross-over, drive shaft safety loop, and bottom side Aero device. It weighs about 36 lbs, so about the same as two FLowmasters. It has a great low tone, no drone or rattle, and blew a 91 db at WOT at a local SCCA event. And, it doesn't hang down under the car. So, it's different, but it does everything I wanted it to do. Win - win.


Very cool, once again I like your outside the box approach. would love to hear some sound clips.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Looks great Rob!

[jonesbs9]

Initial shake down drives showed a few things. We had a vibration in the driveline. Turns out we were 1 1/2 degrees off on the pinion angle. Fortunately, all the rear links have LH / RH ends, so adjusting the pinion angle was easy. Clearing off my four post lift to put the car on - not so much. Pinion angle needs to be set with the suspension loaded (full weight). When we first took the car out, it was just on a base assembly, no real alignment, and it still felt pretty good. After a full alignment and RH set on scales to balance the car, it feels really good. Not as heavy as I thought. 3380 total, wet, no driver. But, a little nose heavy. 54%, or 1825 lbs. The good new is how well balanced the car is. LF = 910, RF = 914, LR = 776, RR = 780. Wheel base is set at 108.25", and the alignment is Camber -1*, Caster +8.5*, Toe out 3/16". These front clips turn a massive 39* of steering angle, But, with an 11" wide front wheel, there was a slight rub at full lock from the wheel lip on the control arm. The steering stops were adjusted to stop at 37*, and no more rub. The car will still U-turn on a narrow Tn street. The steering feels good, the "pump assist" does not. I wanted to try a stock '70s GM pump. No good. There almost no assist at idle to 1600 RPM. So, a call has been made to Turn One for a solution. New pump is in route.


Im sure your new pump will do the trick. I finally got my car driving, with your front sub. I used an ls9 and reused the factory ps pump. so far its doing good. turns like a full size go cart.

[chiva]

Just curious if you guys sold the car or are you still tinkering with it, etc. Great build!

[Kyle Simpson]

Bumping a very old thread, but this was a great read.

I just purchased this car and am taking delivery tomorrow in Spartanburg, SC. It now has brand new Black paint, brand new glass and trim, rubber, felts, etc. My plans are to get the car in, nut and bolt it, and give it a major clean up. I'll drive it and enjoy while I accumulate parts, and soon LS Swap it with a 6 Speed, and upgrade the interior.

Rob, I actually called you about the car a few weeks ago during working hours. I greatly appreciate your time that day, as it is the reasson I felt good making the Purchase. More to come!

[cwylie]

Did you ever produce the brake setup?