When a car isnt a pro tour car

[Onebad78ta]

I know this subject probly gets beat to death but I keep seeing these cars advertised as pro tour and I have to laugh,,,Or maybe get a little irritated,,,when you spend the money to put all the good stuff on a car,,then see an advertised pro tour car and its got stock front brakes and drums on the back I want to reply to them saying that is false advertising,,,better spend more money:banghead:

[csouth]

I think they use the buzz word to get people to look at the ad hoping to attract more possible buyers. You see that work tossed around all over Craigslist and eBay...

[Rod]

agree with csouth, protouring is the new buzz word, the name restomod doesn't bring the interest it did 10 years ago, but you put on some 17" inch wheels and call it protouring, run it thru a Barret Jackson were all the the gen X'ers want to spend there internet money to buy a hot rod because they cant operate a lawn mower let alone turn a wrench....BAM!!! everything is Protouring now

[shmoov69]

:hammer: Well suck.... I guess I gotta find a new place to to hang out since I still got drums on the back of my car!

[Schwartz Performance]

Yep irritating lol.

Agree with Chris and Rod!

-Dale

[ragz]

http://www.carsonline-ads.com/colsite/col?use=UC3_ViewPosting&cmd=showPosting&postingID=71451

I agree, it sort of takes away from all the effort we go through to earn the protour tag...

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

This is my new irritation, following in the footsteps of the guy with 8" Welds in the back of his car and calling it "pro-street".

[vintageracer]

For Sale

2001 PRO-TOURING TOYOTA ECHO

Fresh & Radical 1.5 litre Naturally Aspirated High RPM & High Torque Most Motorsports Multi-Port Sequential Fuel Injected Engine, Tree Mack TKO FWD 5 Speed Transmission, Massive 10 inch Bear Multi-Piston Pro-Touring Brakes, Ryde-Tek Coil Over Front Suspension, Burning River Rack & Pinion Steering, Detroit Slow Rear Coils/Suspension, Hodge Kiss Massive Sway Bars Front & Rear, Great Sounding MasterFlow 1 1/2 Inch Exhaust, Huge 14 Inch BFG Rival Anything You Got Tires mounted on Lightweight Wide Multi-Peace Forge Curve PT Style Wheels with Stealth Wheel Covers Hiding Those Big Brakes, Fantastic Factory Installed Kicked You AM Sound System, Recamaro Factory Racing Buckets Seats, Rear Fold Down Interior Air Foil Instead of Removed Rear Seat, Factory Bart Simpson Driver & Passenger Racing Harness's, Intregal Uni-Body Full Roll Cage and More!

A True & Very Serious Autocross or Open Track Car Pro-Touring Car!

$36,500 FIRM

[Onebad78ta]

Oh yea ,,,that's one bad ass Toyota,,,pffffft

[wendell]

How many must have bolt ons do I have to buy before I can Pro-Tour?

[Schwartz Performance]

For Sale

2001 PRO-TOURING TOYOTA ECHO

Fresh & Radical 1.5 litre Naturally Aspirated High RPM & High Torque Most Motorsports Multi-Port Sequential Fuel Injected Engine, Tree Mack TKO FWD 5 Speed Transmission, Massive 10 inch Bear Multi-Piston Pro-Touring Brakes, Ryde-Tek Coil Over Front Suspension, Burning River Rack & Pinion Steering, Detroit Slow Rear Coils/Suspension, Hodge Kiss Massive Sway Bars Front & Rear, Great Sounding MasterFlow 1 1/2 Inch Exhaust, Huge 14 Inch BFG Rival Anything You Got Tires mounted on Lightweight Wide Multi-Peace Forge Curve PT Style Wheels with Stealth Wheel Covers Hiding Those Big Brakes, Fantastic Factory Installed Kicked You AM Sound System, Recamaro Factory Racing Buckets Seats, Rear Fold Down Interior Air Foil Instead of Removed Rear Seat, Factory Bart Simpson Driver & Passenger Racing Harness's, Intregal Uni-Body Full Roll Cage and More!

A True & Very Serious Autocross or Open Track Car Pro-Touring Car!

$36,500 FIRM

How long did it take you to come up with that? Pretty clever! lol!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I got drums on the back of Stormy.. hell might as well be a band back there featuring Dave Lombardo..



loool...

[Onebad78ta]

Slayer rocks

[vintageracer]

How long did it take you to come up with that? Pretty clever! lol!

DAMN!!!!

I can't believe I forgot to mention the See Warts Full Custom Pro-Touring Chassis installed under the car!

That's gotta ad at least $10.00 in value!

[Onebad78ta]

Dang ,,,all that in a Toyota ,,AWSOME

[shmoov69]

How many must have bolt ons do I have to buy before I can Pro-Tour?
LoL!!


I got drums on the back of Stormy.. hell might as well be a band back there featuring Dave Lombardo..
loool...

Oh man, you're out poser!! LMAO!

[rickierockit92]

sooo even with power disc upfront having rear drums knocks you out of pro touring status? .. what if other things on your ride that make up for it

[vintageracer]

sooo even with power disc upfront having rear drums knocks you out of pro touring status?

YES!

Poser!'


Like any of us really care if you have drums on the rear. You are here having fun enjoying the discussion and your car.

That's what's important!

[Corey R.]

I would consider a car with huge money in brakes, suspension, an expensive paint job, and no track time a poser before a guy with drum brakes.

[TheJDMan]

I would consider a car with huge money in brakes, suspension, an expensive paint job, and no track time a poser before a guy with drum brakes.

Anyone who thinks they can dictate how someone else uses their vehicles can go reproduce themselves! Think about it.

[shmoov69]

In all honesty, my car (ford truck drum brakes out back and all!) did pretty stinking good at Putnam Park on the road course and fair on the auto-X. Needless to say, the brakes were not the weak point for the weekends racing..... It was the part between the seat and the steering wheel!!
Which My point is the same as most of the people on this site, not all by no means but most of us run out of talent before we run out of car! LoL!

[Corey R.]

Anyone who thinks they can dictate how someone else uses their vehicles can go reproduce themselves! Think about it.

Exactly my point. I was offering an opposing viewpoint from the thread topic. "Think about it" :)

Who is to say what they can call their car? Is it due to a lack of requirements & standards of what the term pro-touring is defined as? Who is to say what one could call it even if their were such definitions?

P.S. Lots of folk race with drum brakes.

[ragz]

It's funny how this subject always takes a left turn, I don't think any one is saying that pro touring is an elitist club of who is and who isn't included. Any one who reads this and other forums know what it takes to be in the protour vicinity (high end or entry level) , but to make a 60's era vehicle and make it handle like a 2015 sport vehicle it does take some effort. So I don't like it when that effort is included in the same sentence as a rim and tire change. I also believe the pro tour term refers to the car so weather or not it's driver does or doesn't track the car in no way diminishes the car. But at the end of the day we just end up preaching to the choir..... My Opinion only and I know what that's worth.. Lol

[Onebad78ta]

bingo well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wendell]

Ditto. Well said. Part of my sentiments come from the nature of this site. With multiple vendors hustling on every sub forum "pro-touring" has become very consumption oriented. Talking about rear drums sort of hit a nerve because it reinforces the "must buy all the mods" mentality. In the real world there are a TON of blisteringly fast, luxuriously comfortable cars that were build with out any of the "must have" bits hawked here.

[Onebad78ta]

My point was hit on a few times with the statement you can't put a set of wheels on a car and call it pro tour,,,just my opinion of course but my idea of hitting the level of a pro tour car Is,,,having all the high performance goodies so it's up to par with today's technology or better.Putting some wheels and a couple nice parts on my wife's KIA doesn't make it anything more than a Kia with better wheels.

[Corey R.]

I also believe the pro tour term refers to the car so weather or not it's driver does or doesn't track the car in no way diminishes the car.

I was not correlating the two. That would be false equivalence. I have seen people on this site specifically look down their nose otherwise beautiful cars due to their brake set up. When in fact, most people get no where close to pushing the limits of the stock brakes.

I spoke with a well known brake sponsor on this site. He actually steered me away from his product, and told me my current set up was more than sufficient for my requirements.

[ragz]

I also believe the pro tour term refers to the car so weather or not it's driver does or doesn't track the car in no way diminishes the car.

I was not correlating the two. That would be false equivalence. I have seen people on this site specifically look down their nose otherwise beautiful cars due to their brake set up. When in fact, most people get no where close to pushing the limits of the stock brakes.

I spoke with a well known brake sponsor on this site. He actually steered me away from his product, and told me my current set up was more than sufficient for my requirements.


There is nothing wrong with having sufficient brakes for your needs... And there is even less wrong with having 10 times more brakes than you need.

[JEFFTATE]

It's all about how you improve yourself and your car.
Not about what equipment it had, or has, or will have in the future , but what you do with it .

But , yes , it is ironic of the buzzword " pro-touring" when people sell a car or brag about their car.

[79-TA]

I like the idea of this thread. What is a pro-touring car has been discussed a ton. Now we have the other side of the regulative principle of what isn't.

When you go to a pro-touring event with a decidedly non-pro-touring car, you definitely know it. My Miata is not pro-touring. It accomplishes a lot of goals of pro-touring (striking a great balance between street and track), but in a completely opposite way . . . no power, 4 cylinders, fairly modern, Japanese, skinny tires, no major modifications, no big masculine presence etc etc.

I don't really consider my own Trans Am a pro-touring car, even though it has performed pretty well in past events. At the end off the day, it's just a lowered Trans Am with big wheels and tires that makes decent power.

[Space Dynamics]

"Pro Touring" Metropolitan Nash (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/cto/4879684120.html)

I mean, I guess it could be... I do actually think it's really cool though haha.

[LemonTwisted]

^^ I don't think the seller knows what it is based on the keywords in the ad...

"key words muscle car, hotrod, street rod. dodge ford chevy car craft back to the fifties pro street pro touring cuda road runner nova camaro corvette race toys trade. street machine nation back to the fifties carcraft goodguys Danny"

...but it certainly isn't a Roadrunner, I could fit that in my trunk.

[High Plains Mopars]

But , yes , it is ironic of the buzzword " pro-touring" when people sell a car or brag about their car.

Kind of like when I hear guys call themselves "welders". I know about a half dozen welders. Everyone else I know seems to be able to melt metal together. A subtle, but important, distinction.

So when a tire change expert calls their car a pro-tourer, just smile, nod, and move on. Simple as that.

[70chevellemalibu]

My car is not pro touring but im getting closer (i think) Theres a 70 El Camino in my area that is lowered on 16" Eagle alloys no other mods, his license plate is "Pro Tour" every time i see it i shake my head.

[mmosley]

Kind of like when I hear guys call themselves "welders". I know about a half dozen welders. Everyone else I know seems to be able to melt metal together. A subtle, but important, distinction.


Actually, I am a grinder... if you saw my welds you would understand what I mean! That is why someone else, Sam, did the welding on my car.

Sam isn't really a welder - he is more of an artist! After he was done with the fabrication, a few repairs, setting gaps, and his "rough" body work, it went over to the body guy for primer and finish work. The painter put on the primer, guide coat, and started sanding. It was amazing how close Sam's "rough" body work was, probably better than when it left the factory.

[mmosley]

My car is not pro touring but im getting closer (i think) Theres a 70 El Camino in my area that is lowered on 16" Eagle alloys no other mods, his license plate is "Pro Tour" every time i see it i shake my head.

I'm hesitant to call mine "pro touring". I consider it more of a resto-mod.

[70chevellemalibu]

I'm hesitant to call mine "pro touring". I consider it more of a resto-mod.

ya that might be a better choice for my car as well.

[High Plains Mopars]

Actually, I am a grinder... if you saw my welds you would understand what I mean! That is why someone else, Sam, did the welding on my car.

Sam isn't really a welder - he is more of an artist! After he was done with the fabrication, a few repairs, setting gaps, and his "rough" body work, it went over to the body guy for primer and finish work. The painter put on the primer, guide coat, and started sanding. It was amazing how close Sam's "rough" body work was, probably better than when it left the factory.

I understand entirely. I can melt metal together and some people are impressed with the results, but I've seen blue light artistry and I am no artist.

[cornfedbill]

:hammer: Well suck.... I guess I gotta find a new place to to hang out since I still got drums on the back of my car!

Me too! I think there is more criteria than big disc brakes...

[ragz]

Protour.... Is it... Isn't it...., this has to be the automotive equivalent to area 51. It's there, but no one can say for sure what it is.... The truth is out there..

[HPIcustoms]

The debate is out there for all car types, Auto-X, Drift, Rally, Road Racer etc and of course Pro-Touring. But what really makes a car the category it belongs in?
I know guys that call themselves "drifters" just because they own a RWD import and slide around in the snow... I own a fully built Nissan SR20DET swapped 240sx I designed for entry/ intermediate level drifting and even I don't consider it a "drift car" as I'm friends with a Pro-Am/ DMCC drifter here in Manitoba and HIS car is a true pro-drift car. Same goes for guys who claim fully built engines and you can obviously hear and see they are not, import world is full of that.

Calling it whatever gets attention to their build, advertisement and postings, if it works it works I guess.
Basically comes down to "to each their own, and the knowledgeable people will be the wiser". Build what you want, love it, drive the hell out of it and call it whatever you want.

[cornfedbill]

I honestly do not like strict definitions of what a certain style of car is. When we place strict definitions, we limit creativity.

I am not so concerned with what equipment the car has, as I am with what the car does. I do think a true PT car is licensed and insured, and used on public roads to be what I consider PT, even if it is only on sunny days to and from the track.

The proof is in the pudding so to speak beyond that. It needs to turn, brake and perform like a performance corner carver, whether autocross, track or just burning up the canyon.

That's my 2 cents.

[SPLATT71MC]

I'd have to say my car definitely leans towards the Pro Touring category but not in it. My car is being built to have more modern handling and stopping than the 43 year old car that it is. My goal for the car is an everyday driver capable, long distance cruiser that I can have fun with when I want to flog it a bit.

[indyjps]

How about the other end of the spectrum. When does a car pass from pro-touring to a street rodded muscle car? Many of the high end builds I've seen recently are just street rod/show cars with a 60's body instead of a 30's body. Pretty but pretty useless.

[Bird of Prey]

I read the thread . It is Pro Touring when the car is faster then most race cars on the track and street . If you get a lot of money and just put all the race car parts on it cause you can afford it , then it's a high end trailer "QUEEN" that runs . There are $10,000.00 wheels out there and single piston calipers that cost $500.00 a piece , just saying . Performance is the only way to rate a Pro-Street or a Pro-Touring car . Any thing else is just being a pompous prissy snob .

[mikewoods]

I just call my car, "fun".

[Stilettoman]

I feel better after reading this thread - I have been concerned that I don't really understand what a "pro touring" car is supposed to be. Now I realize that people who have been building them for years don't know either. I have tinkered with foreign cars since the early 1960s to improve their handling and braking, but not much to increase power. I won a lot of trophies autocrossing my Ford Cortina back in the day, but all of my mods were in the suspension. My current Studebaker project, shown elsewhere on this forum, is probably about the ultimate "restomod" - the only Studebaker mechanical parts left are the door latches and the window mechanisms. It has more than 2 1/2 times the original horsepower, but there are many here who would laugh at the idea of using an engine with 212 horsepower. My objective is a classic car with a good balance of performance, ride, handling, braking and economy - isn't that what a good touring car should be?

I have numerous friends who are part of the "tuner " crowd, and they have no clue about pro street or pro touring, but they do discuss hot rods versus restomods, and they say an old Mustang, Camaro or other older car that still has a solid rear axle and leaf springs can be a hot rod, but should not be called a restomod because it has not been brought up to modern standards. I tend to agree with that point of view. Even Ford has finally brought the Mustang up to the standards of 1990s European and Japanese cars.

I build my cars to drive, and I think the suggestion that they are "posers" because I never take them to the track is ridiculous. I would go the other way and say if you never take it on a road trip any further than to the nearest track, why is the word "touring" used in your description?

[cluxford]

I hate these definitions, stupid. It's either stock or modified. Stock factory cars all come out with different options, you can get the same car with extra stuff on it. Modified cars are the same, some have more / different mods than the others. Still the same car though.

But if you must, in my view

Drag Week = Pro-street

Power Tour = Pro-touring

Both terms imply** the cars are street cars or touring cars (road trips) AND Pro means that can be raced as well. Quarter mile of road course / auto-x.

If your car can't do both well, that is road trip / street driven thousands and thousands of miles and fast / decent track times (don't have to be spectacular, but reasonable) then by definition it can't do both, so it's just a normal modified car.

Bottom line is call it what you like.

A lot of factory cars coming off the line these days could argue they are pro-touring. The obvious ones Z06 Vette, Hellcat, Z/28 Camaro. But damn even the new Mustang in poverty pack form is pretty quick, can do 100,000 miles of road time and could reasonably hold it's own against many of our cars on the track. What about a CTS-V, an M3 Bimmer, RS Audi, AMG Benz.


** I know a number of the drag week cars esp those under 7 secs push the genuine definition of street car, but 95% of the participants are genuine street cars

[shmoov69]

I would go the other way and say if you never take it on a road trip any further than to the nearest track, why is the word "touring" used in your description?
Awesome!! LoL! I think you nailed the "other" argument!!

[Zachalanche]

Oh, the car has to drive around to different tracks? well then, my car certainly isn't pro-touring. It's more like pro-jackstand.