PWM radiator fan controller [Archive]

terrydmorgan

01-04-2015, 01:40 PM

I'm wiring my car now and got to the point where I was going to hook up the wiring harness for coolant fans using relays to effect a single speed fan controller. However, I ran across a posting on Lateral-G that goes into great detail on how to use the ECU and a PWM controller (from a C6 Corvette) to produce a variable speed fan. The fan speed is controlled by inputs from coolant temp and AC pressure. Aside from mounting the PWM controller, you only need to add an AC pressure sensor with 3 signal lines to the ECU, and the ECU programming will have to be changed. For a Vintage Air system, you'll still want to use their binary switch to turn the AC compressor off when AC pressure is too high or too low, as no one has figured out how to control the compressor using the ECU. Should be a very reliable setup since it relies on GM production parts. And it's not terribly expensive. The PWM controller is about $100.

I'm going to get started on mine soon.

If you're interested, here's a link to the Lateral-G posting: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215

terrydmorgan

01-05-2015, 03:09 PM

Regarding the ECU programming, I'm considering doing it myself. I haven't ventured inside the ECU yet, but would like to give it a try. Any recommendations on the equipment that would work best would be greatly appreciated. I have both Windows and Mac laptops, so programmers that interface with either type laptop would work for me. To program the ECU for PWM, I'll need to be able to change settings in the ECU, such as turning off "discrete" fan control and turning on PWM control. I'll also need to be able to alter the tables that control fan speed based on cooling temp and AC pressure. I'd appreciate any advice on which equipment would be best for this situation.

andrewb70

01-06-2015, 07:57 AM

terrydmorgan

01-06-2015, 08:38 AM

Thanks Andrew. Looks like there are quite a few different options with either of these systems. I'm wondering what the minimum system is that will meet my needs for this particular job? Perhaps, since you're not familiar with them, someone else will have some advice, or can at least point me to an article that's a good starting point for understanding what's involved.

In order to do this, you need to get either HP Tuners or EFI Live. I don't have experience with either, so I can't recommend one over the other.

Andrew

terrydmorgan

01-07-2015, 10:37 AM

There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the PWM implementation so far, but I'll post what I've learned in case interest blooms in the future.

My implementation involves an E67 ECM, so this info is peculiar to the E67, but may have application to other ECMs as well.

E67 Pinouts that need to be added are all on the J3 (grey) connector.
AC Pressure Sensor
J3-21 (ground) wire color black
J3-37 (5V) wire color grey
J3-57 (AC pressure signal) wire color red/black
PWM output
J3-49 wire color green

PWM Fan Control Module - AC Delco 15-80803
Pinouts
1) Fan (-)
2) Battery (-)
3) Battery (+) fused
4) Fan (+)
6) PWM output from ECM (J3-49)

AC Pressure Sensor from C6 Corvette
Pinouts
1) ground (connect to J3-21 on ECM - wire color black)
2) 5V (connect to J3-37 on ECM - wire color grey)
3) Pressure signal (connect to J3-57 on ECM - wire color red/black)

The following programming changes need to be made to the E67 ECM
1) Set PWM fan control on, instead of discrete fan control;
2) Repopulate the following tables with your desired fan speed vs. temp/pressure values:
a) Coolant temp/fan speed
For example, 204 Deg. F (at 10% duty cycle) and increasing with temp up to a max of 90% duty cycle at 235 Deg. F and higher.
b) AC pressure/fan speed
For example, fan speed 10% at 160 psi up to 90% at 260 psi for Vintage Air implementation

If you haven't purchased a radiator fan yet, you may want to consider the fan assembly from a C6 Corvette as it is made to work with the PWM controller and even includes the correct electrical connector. I've seen it advertised for around $120. Try searching for Dorman 621-102 Radiator Fan Assembly.

terrydmorgan

01-07-2015, 10:40 AM

Andrew,
I just realized that you're prominently featured in the Lateral-G posts on this topic. I take it from your posts that you must have used someone to implement the changes on your ECM. Can you advise who you used. Seems like that might be a more economical approach than purchasing my own hardware/software from HP Tuners or EFI.

In order to do this, you need to get either HP Tuners or EFI Live. I don't have experience with either, so I can't recommend one over the other.

Andrew

andrewb70

01-08-2015, 06:41 AM

Andrew,
I just realized that you're prominently featured in the Lateral-G posts on this topic. I take it from your posts that you must have used someone to implement the changes on your ECM. Can you advise who you used. Seems like that might be a more economical approach than purchasing my own hardware/software from HP Tuners or EFI.

I haven't implemented this yet. I plan on doing it on my Cougar, but it will be using a Holley Dominator ECU.

Contact Mike Norris. See if how much he would charge to do this.

Andrew

terrydmorgan

01-08-2015, 07:21 AM

Thanks!

I haven't implemented this yet. I plan on doing it on my Cougar, but it will be using a Holley Dominator ECU.

Contact Mike Norris. See if how much he would charge to do this.

Andrew

terrydmorgan

01-08-2015, 09:03 PM

Ordered an AC pressure sensor for a C6 Corvette ($22.95)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/708968564dfdb14aa0694adfde15c61e-1.jpg

Ordered a connector for the pressure sensor ($6.99)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/73c471a413e8159f1d1ba90646026c8f-1.jpg

Found a C6 Vette fan assembly with a damaged shroud and bought the PWM Controller and wiring harness ($80)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/cec84621c777244574bf64e194c2a1b3-1.jpg

Ordered a set of 10 pins for the E67 connector ($2.95)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/0b9a7a18f940d04612b0dc98895470dd-1.jpg

Ready to install - waiting for shipping

130fe

01-08-2015, 10:24 PM

Good info Terry, where did you order the PCM pins from?

terrydmorgan

01-08-2015, 11:16 PM

Several sources are referenced in the postings on Lateral-G, but I used this one:
http://www.obd2allinone.com/products/m5j3.asp

Good info Terry, where did you order the PCM pins from?

130fe

01-09-2015, 05:36 AM

Yeah, I have been following that thread- tons of good info in it.

terrydmorgan

01-12-2015, 07:37 PM

Here are some pics to help identify your ECM

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/A9D2707009734EABB92EFEB791640A22-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/A9D27070-0973-4EAB-B92E-FEB791640A22.jpg.html)

This drawing shows the connector on the e67 ECM, which corresponds to the wire side of the connector.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/4E52636E7ACB401B953722A11CADF853-1.png (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/4E52636E-7ACB-401B-9537-22A11CADF853.png.html)

Pins for the e67 ECM showed up today. Here's what they look like when properly crimped

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/A38B2697FC44467EB3341869807D212B-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/A38B2697-FC44-467E-B334-1869807D212B.jpg.html)

terrydmorgan

01-12-2015, 10:56 PM

The pins that need to be inserted are marked with red dots. Color labels reflect the color of wires used in my implementation.

AC Pressure Sensor
J3-21 (ground) wire color black
J3-37 (5V) wire color grey
J3-57 (AC pressure signal) wire color red
PWM output
J3-49 wire color green

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/4C62976EF85849A3989975A71BEEEB42-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/4C62976E-F858-49A3-9899-75A71BEEEB42.jpg.html)

andrewb70

01-13-2015, 07:01 AM

Terry,

Great info. Which pin numbers are for what function?

Andrew

terrydmorgan

01-13-2015, 07:41 AM

Post number 5 identifies pins by number, color and function.
And I've now added them to post number 14 too.

Terry,

Great info. Which pin numbers are for what function?

Andrew

Justin@EntropyRad

01-13-2015, 08:43 AM

Wicked pinouts and ecu identifiers in the thread!

If anyone wants to cheat: http://www.entropyrad.com/wiring-harnesses.html

I have friends running EFI live on a few projects, as well as LS1 Edit on a 5.3 silverado with an older STS rear-mount turbo..both programs work well if you know how to run the fuel values!

andrewb70

01-13-2015, 08:48 AM

Post number 5 identifies pins by number, color and function.
And I've now added them to post number 14 too.

I should read more carefully...LOL

Andrew

terrydmorgan

01-13-2015, 09:12 AM

Hey Justin!
I'm a big fan of Entropy radiators. I've installed them in both of my builds. Zero problems, and they are very pretty. But, mine needs dusting.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/923E2578FE2146BF9BF46F62B4A51EC0-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/923E2578-FE21-46BF-9BF4-6F62B4A51EC0.jpg.html)

Wicked pinouts and ecu identifiers in the thread!

If anyone wants to cheat: http://www.entropyrad.com/wiring-harnesses.html

I have friends running EFI live on a few projects, as well as LS1 Edit on a 5.3 silverado with an older STS rear-mount turbo..both programs work well if you know how to run the fuel values!

Samckitt

01-13-2015, 02:49 PM

If you already have the fan(s) and don't want to buy the C6 vette unit, I have found a supplier for the PWM module connector & terminals that should be in my hands within a couple weeks.

terrydmorgan

01-13-2015, 03:08 PM

That's good news! I appreciate the heads-up. I ordered a used PWM controller with the connector and wiring harness, but it hasn't arrived yet. So, I believe I won't need it, but we'll see what shows up via shipping.

If you already have the fan(s) and don't want to buy the C6 vette unit, I have found a supplier for the PWM module connector & terminals that should be in my hands within a couple weeks.

terrydmorgan

01-13-2015, 07:30 PM

To insert the new pins/wires, first remove the grey faceplate from the connector. Gently pry up on the two short ends of the grey faceplate and it comes off easily.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/7917ead432cf30dcbbb427827e2c871f-1.jpg

Using a small Phillips screwdriver, the small blue plugs can be easily pushed out and removed. Now insert the already crimped connector/wire into the now open hole until you feel it click in place

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/754a52328e20f84cbaed7ae94ec47f64-1.jpg

terrydmorgan

01-15-2015, 04:29 PM

Controller and wiring harness showed up today. Almost ready for complete installation.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/6c5314496edf4cfa60053b356b081448-1.jpg

The harness came with a radiator fan motor for a C6 Corvette that I don't need. Free to a good home (plus shipping). Contact me if you want it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/5685166472fba1ca2635d86c88f6d0b1-1.jpg

Samckitt

01-16-2015, 06:05 AM

After much searching I have finally located a supplier for the PWM module connector bodies & terminals. I should have these soon. I don't need them all, so i'll have some for sale.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

andrewb70

01-16-2015, 06:11 AM

I'll take one please.

Andrew

Samckitt

01-16-2015, 06:45 AM

I'll post when they get herre.

terrydmorgan

01-17-2015, 09:01 PM

14 gauge wires were too large for the connector, but 18 gauge worked well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/e82bb01ae336d613154102bf38562d50-1.jpg

entropyradiator

01-19-2015, 01:42 PM

14 gauge wires were too large for the connector, but 18 gauge worked well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/e82bb01ae336d613154102bf38562d50-1.jpg

When you're wiring this all up, I'd go the extra mile and solder all of the 10 gauge power connections from the fan, to the PWM module and to the fuse/battery/alternator. Make sure all of your grounds are bullet proof too. I wouldn't skimp on the wire here and make sure it's good GXL 10 gauge.

Heat is the achilles heal of those PWM units. If you can mount it to the frame in an area where it will get good air flow, all the better.

terrydmorgan

01-19-2015, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the tips!

When you're wiring this all up, I'd go the extra mile and solder all of the 10 gauge power connections from the fan, to the PWM module and to the fuse/battery/alternator. Make sure all of your grounds are bullet proof too. I wouldn't skimp on the wire here and make sure it's good GXL 10 gauge.

Heat is the achilles heal of those PWM units. If you can mount it to the frame in an area where it will get good air flow, all the better.

terrydmorgan

01-27-2015, 06:03 AM

Electronics are all wired and mounted. Now, just need to get the ECM reprogrammed for PWM operation. I'd like to find someone local here in the Houston/Cypress, TX area. Anybody know a shop that can do this type of work?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/D9C5A00AD9D34882BBAC3DFE38BC35D2-1.jpg

Samckitt

01-27-2015, 06:50 AM

Connector parts showed up the other day, the wire seals will show up tomorrow.

Power terminals:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/IMG_20150122_144735-1.jpg

PWM signal terminals:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/IMG_20150122_144725-1.jpg

Connector body:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/IMG_20150122_144715-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/IMG_20150122_144656-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/01/IMG_20150123_093818-1.jpg

I have 5 complete sets. When the seals get here I will also have ECM terminals. If you have the GMPP controller kit & want to add the Maxi fuse/breaker in the fuse box to power the fan, I can get the terminal for that fusebox as well.

I spent a ton of time trying to find this connector. If you have searched it you know they aren't available from GM.

When the seals get here I will have everything needed (except the wire) to add this fan module. $50 shipped to anywhere in the US.

terrydmorgan

02-03-2015, 01:21 PM

I noticed quite a few complaints about failures of this connector on the Corvette websites. It's the supply line from the battery to the PWM controller.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/E97F2B17752D49E091F0FAB0C793BAFD-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/E97F2B17-752D-49E0-91F0-FAB0C793BAFD.jpg.html)

In the pics I saw, it looked like the connections weren't solid and had allowed some arcing of the contacts. I checked with Entropy and they told me to expect about 40 amps max for their dual fan arrangement. So, I found a heavy-duty looking connector that's designed for 50 amps (eBay for about $12.00). Not sure if there would have been a problem or not, but decided I was better off making the switch.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/02/F98FEE4B91104F1187A9B97AFAE1DE77-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/F98FEE4B-9110-4F11-87A9-B97AFAE1DE77.jpg.html)

andrewb70

02-03-2015, 02:15 PM

terrydmorgan

02-03-2015, 04:44 PM

Sorry Andrew, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I'm replacing the factory connector with this high amp aftermarket connector.

If the culprit is the connection from the battery to the fan controller, how will you incorporate those new connectors?

Andrew

andrewb70

02-03-2015, 08:05 PM

Sorry Andrew, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I'm replacing the factory connector with this high amp aftermarket connector.

So not the connector that plugs into the fan controller, but the other connector. I think it's a metripack 800 that has the leads from the battery and the PWM signal wire.

Andrew

terrydmorgan

02-03-2015, 08:11 PM

Yes, exactly.

So not the connector that plugs into the fan controller, but the other connector. I think it's a metripack 800 that has the leads from the battery and the PWM signal wire.

Andrew

andrewb70

02-03-2015, 08:13 PM

Maybe I'll change that connector as well to a heavy duty Deutch connector. I really dig those.

Andrew

H2Ogbodies

02-10-2015, 09:01 AM

Those look like the Power and Signal power pole connectors I use-they are as robust as you can find-you won't have any issues with those!

terrydmorgan

02-10-2015, 06:45 PM

Those look like the Power and Signal power pole connectors I use-they are as robust as you can find-you won't have any issues with those!

Good to hear!

andrewb70

05-05-2015, 11:36 AM

I realize that this thread is focused on how to make various OEM ECUs operate the coolant fans via PWM, but this functionality is also available in the Holley Dominator and HP ECUs. I am in the process of doing a LS swap into my 1967 Cougar and I am using the Dominator ECU.

Last night I was able to configure the Dominator to control the fan via PWM using the C6 Corvette fan and fan controller.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C-Y0VsD6pY

This will allow me to program the exact fan speed, based on duty cycle, based on coolant temperature and vehicle speed.

Andrew

terrydmorgan

06-28-2015, 11:03 PM

On its Facebook page, BP Automotive says that it is introducing an AC drier that includes 2 ports - a port for the binary switch, and a metric port for the AC pressure sensor. Looks like the ideal configuration for a setup like I've been attempting. No word yet on pricing, but I have a couple of inquiries pending.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/06/C37D44D9D17B4B7EB3D3E55FFB8ABE40_1-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/C37D44D9-D17B-4B7E-B3D3-E55FFB8ABE40_1.jpg.html)

parsonsj

06-29-2015, 05:07 AM

Yes, this is a great solution. I wish I had had this on my current build!

terrydmorgan

07-01-2015, 08:39 AM

The drier is now for sale on BP Automotive's web site. $60 for just the drier with 2 ports; $100 for the drier and pressure sensor; $115 for the drier, pressure sensor and binary switch. Talked to Bill on the phone and he's a super nice and helpful guy. I ordered mine today and will let you know how the installation goes.
Here a link: http://shop.bp-automotive.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=drier

On its Facebook page, BP Automotive says that it is introducing an AC drier that includes 2 ports - a port for the binary switch, and a metric port for the AC pressure sensor. Looks like the ideal configuration for a setup like I've been attempting. No word yet on pricing, but I have a couple of inquiries pending.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/06/C37D44D9D17B4B7EB3D3E55FFB8ABE40_1-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/C37D44D9-D17B-4B7E-B3D3-E55FFB8ABE40_1.jpg.html)

terrydmorgan

07-06-2015, 06:12 PM

Drier arrived today. I installed it and noted a few minor issues. The drier is longer than the one supplied by Vintage Air, and thus the hard line would not fit as originally intended. However, I reversed the position of the hard line and it seems to work. Finally, the fitting for the binary switch is male, but the binary switch supplied by Vintage Air is also a male fitting, so I'll need to get a new binary switch with a female fitting, or a male-to-male adapter.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/07/3278CE9B2FA640608D131F74AF8B9CCD-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/3278CE9B-2FA6-4060-8D13-1F74AF8B9CCD.jpg.html)

Samckitt

07-14-2015, 04:47 AM

I have ordered more connectors. I will let those who want them know when they arrive.
Thanks

terrydmorgan

07-20-2015, 07:34 PM

Added some 1" offsets to move the drier away from the condensor to give me a little room to accommodate the pressure sensor and its electrical connector.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/07/06831C3BA29A44AE9544170484A3AA18-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Terrys%201969%20Camaro/20%20PWM%20fan%20controller/06831C3B-A29A-44AE-9544-170484A3AA18.jpg.html)

parsonsj

07-25-2015, 02:26 PM

Terry,

Is your set up working? I've got no working fans, and it's making me crazy. I've gone through this thread and the one on Lat-g several times today trying to figure out what I've done wrong, but I sure can't figure out any thing.

Wiring
PWM wire from #6 on the controller to J3-49. Check.
Fused power to pin #3 on the controller. Check.
Ground from pin #2 on the controller. Check.
Fan ground to pin #1 on the controller. Check.
Fan power to pin #4 on the controller. Check.

Programming
Modify Fan to PWM Electric, running at 128 Hz.
Add values to Fan Desired % vs ECT table.
Add values to Fan Desired % vs AC pressure table.

What am I missing?

parsonsj

07-25-2015, 08:33 PM

For fun, I did a quickie re-wire with a relay, changed the ECM back to discrete, and the fan came on as it should.

That says the problem is either in the programming or in the fan controller. And since having both new fan controllers not work seems unlikely, I'm left with programming. But that's dead simple, see above.

Maybe both controllers are bad? Maybe that's why I got such a good deal on them?

terrydmorgan

07-26-2015, 07:35 PM

Sorry John, but I don't have mine programmed yet. I'd put a scope on the output J3-49. In PWM mode, you should see a signal that varies with temperature/pressure. If not, then could be an ECU issue. If the signal does vary, then problem is likely with the fan controller.

For fun, I did a quickie re-wire with a relay, changed the ECM back to discrete, and the fan came on as it should.

That says the problem is either in the programming or in the fan controller. And since having both new fan controllers not work seems unlikely, I'm left with programming. But that's dead simple, see above.

Maybe both controllers are bad? Maybe that's why I got such a good deal on them?

parsonsj

07-26-2015, 08:24 PM

Thanks Terry. I've got a Fluke 87 multi-meter on the way. It can read PWM signals.

I'm sending my controllers to Andrew Borodin -- he's got a known working setup on his 67 Cougar, so he can test the controllers. In the meantime, I've rewired my setup just a bit so I can swap between discrete (relay) controls and PWM controllers by swapping out the sub-harness. It lets me continue on the rest of the car...

parsonsj

07-29-2015, 12:22 PM

Andrew reports that my controllers work perfectly.

And so after a considerable amount of debugging, testing components, and general frustration and angst... I called GM Powertrain today and talked with tech support. They tell me that the fan PWM circuit is disabled in the GMPP crate motor ECMs in an effort to simplify tech support and reduce warranty claims.

So: you guys with GMPP crate motor E67s... how did you get your PWM fans to work?

terrydmorgan

07-29-2015, 02:32 PM

Mine's not a crate motor, so I may be OK. Did you ask if you could get new software with PWM enabled? Seems like a fair request since they probably don't advertise the reduced functionality.

Andrew reports that my controllers work perfectly.

And so after a considerable amount of debugging, testing components, and general frustration and angst... I called GM Powertrain today and talked with tech support. They tell me that the fan PWM circuit is disabled in the GMPP crate motor ECMs in an effort to simplify tech support and reduce warranty claims.

So: you guys with GMPP crate motor E67s... how did you get your PWM fans to work?

parsonsj

07-29-2015, 02:49 PM

Yes, you'll be ok, I think.

No, GM has no solution, other than to note that many have re-wired and programmed the E67 to run dual fan relays at different temperatures. Which I already have working. And if that supports the AC pressure %, it may be acceptable.

Or get another ECU. Or get a standalone fan controller like this one from Derale: http://derale.com/products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail

jp

terrydmorgan

07-29-2015, 02:53 PM

But, It's just a software issue, right? Someone should be able to load a different program that has PWM already enabled. However, it might be just as expensive as buying a new ECU.

Yes, you'll be ok, I think.

No, GM has no solution, other than to note that many have re-wired and programmed the E67 to run dual fans at different temperatures. Which I already have working. And if that supports the AC pressure %, it may be acceptable.

I think my way out is to get another ECU.

jp

parsonsj

07-29-2015, 03:11 PM

In a follow-up call, I asked if the crate E67 honors the AC pressure input. Answer: no. No support for A/C pressure.

I asked about reverse lockout. he didn't know, but will check with Engineering. I'll get an email response.

Maybe a new ECU is the way to go.

parsonsj

07-29-2015, 03:13 PM

But, It's just a software issue, right? I don't think so. I can set the PWM option in my HP Tuner options. It loads to the ECU, etc. It just doesn't work.

130fe

07-29-2015, 05:51 PM

JP, my reverse lockout is working on my crate E67 pcm. I just added the wire to the PCM plug (ground side) and the other is IGN source.

parsonsj

07-29-2015, 05:54 PM

Chris, thanks! That's good news.

parsonsj

07-30-2015, 05:46 AM

So, here's what I've learned last night/today. My E67 (GM PN 12636660) started life intended for an 07-08 Hummer. I think it's true that 07-08 E67s are incompatible with OS's written for 09+ E67s.

Given that, it seems I'm stuck. Getting a later E67 and a newer OS (like from a ZR1) is beyond my current abilities, I think.

I have read that HPTuners has an OS patch to support PWM fans, but I can't seem to find any such animal.

Anyway, that's the situation as I see it. Am I wrong? Would it be doable to get GM's ZR1 tune working with my crate motor LS9 if I got a newer E67?

terrydmorgan

07-30-2015, 02:38 PM

$175 on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Engine-Computer-12635453-E67-ECU-ECM-PCM-programmed-ready-/261969161655?hash=item3cfe942db7&vxp=mtr

parsonsj

07-30-2015, 03:24 PM

For fun, I downloaded a ZR1 tune for MY 2011 with some mods, including the same injectors I'm running.

It has a bunch of segments my GMPP tune doesn't have. What I don't know, and what I wish I could get some guidance on, is how different the ZR1 tune is from the LS9 GMPP. I know that the GMPP tune doesn't have after-cat O2 sensors. Is there anything else? :dunno:

I guess my concern is that by getting support for the PWM fans in a later OEM passenger car tune, will I end up with a bunch of other stuff that will cause me more trouble down the road?

Another question: how do I deal with the VIN number?

RPOWU8

08-01-2015, 10:21 PM

Hi,

Have you tried changing the fan State vs Desired % and the control output vs State? Below is my 09 corvette settings. I am currently running a 2014 Corvette PWM spal fan on the 09 with no issues. Just needed to change Hz to 100. No controller needed with the newest spal fans, PWM signal goes straight from ECM to fan pwm input. Controller is built into fan

I am looking at adding PWM to my 11 CTS-V which uses discrete fan control and three relays. Going to use my 09 fan controller to drive the stock CTS-V fans. Waiting on fan pigtails to come in. I should be able to hook this up without altering any factory wires or connectors, just pull the fan 1 relay and use a pin to connect the pwm signal from the ecm to the pwm pin on the fan controller.

The fan state settings are quite different from the Corvette pwm to the CTSV discrete settings. Maybe the problem is there?

09 Corvette Base fan settings:
115686

DJ

parsonsj

08-02-2015, 06:25 AM

Hey DJ,

I've tried similar settings (based on my 07 Z06), but that PWM frequency is very interesting. I've always used 128 Hz (as recommended by HP Tuners), but have never tried 100 Hz. I'll post up my tables.

RPOWU8

08-02-2015, 06:45 AM

The only reason I changed the Hz was for the new 2014 Corvette Spal brushless fan calls for a 100Hz signal. If you are still using the stock fan controller stick with the 128Hz. 128 Hz drives the new brushless fan fine as well but you would need to adjust the desired fan %. With the brushless spal and 128Hz, the fan is at max rpm at 70%. With a 100Hz signal, it takes 90% to max the fan out.

The spal brushless fans have the controller built right in the back of the fan.

Hope that makes sense?

DJ

parsonsj

08-02-2015, 06:47 AM

Here's my config, just pulled from the tune file. My understanding is the State Transition and Output Control tables only mean something in Discrete mode, where the two fans can be set up to come on at various temps.

115691

parsonsj

08-02-2015, 07:21 AM

Yes, I get the difference in frequency for the different fans. I tried 100 Hz just now for fun. No joy.

This isn't a tuning issue, I don't think. GM disabled PWM fan control on purpose on the crate motor offerings. It's not clear to me if that was done in the ECU, or in the OS.

Hedging my bets, I have a 2011 E67 (originally off a V6 Malibu) on its way to a fellow in Austin who is upgrading the VIN and OS to a 2011 ZR1. From there, I can transfer my LS9 tune to that setup, and then I'll have my fan control. It's been an expensive and frustrating lesson... I was told this would work, but it doesn't. Not with the crate motors.

Oh, and one more thing: I've had two tuners tell me that the C6 controllers are problematic, and that the smart guys upgrade their controllers to high quality solid state relays. So I put all this work and money into getting to the C6 controllers, and that might not be the best destination!

RPOWU8

08-02-2015, 08:38 AM

Its a shame if GM left this out of their crate engine stuff. Hopefully the new ecm and OS will shed some light on this for you.

When I get the CTSV working I will post the settings up. I have not found anyone to confirm that they have been able to make it work at this point, but really want to have the fans working with PWM.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their findings.

DJ

andrewb70

08-02-2015, 10:32 AM

Regarding the C6 fan controllers, what I heard is that problems occur if an unknowing tuner demands 100% duty cycle. I guess time will tell how mine holds up. As it is, my fan rarely goes over 70%.

Andrew

parsonsj

08-02-2015, 10:37 AM

90% max, eh? Good tip!

My approach is to get all this working with the C6 controllers, and go to a solid state relay if those controllers fail.

RPOWU8

08-02-2015, 08:46 PM

I drag race my Corvette several times a month and use the caspers manual fan controller all the time. I probably run the fan for at least two hours cooling the car off at the track. I have never had a controller go bad but I have burned up the connector at the shroud twice before I bypassed that connector. Have not had a problem since I rewired it. Never been programmed over 90%. I ran the Dual spal fans for about three years. I pulled the connector at the controller several times and no problems with that connection.

I ordered a Crydom D1D20 SSR to test out on my small tranny cooler fan.

DJ

parsonsj

08-02-2015, 08:56 PM

New information tonight is that the ECU doesn't read the AC pressure sensor even when it's connected. So my backup plan of using the fans in dual discrete mode (which I have working) won't support the AC input.

My new backup plan is a stand-alone controller. Derale has one that might be ok.

parsonsj

08-03-2015, 07:25 AM

On the idea of a standalone controller, does anybody have a line on the voltage vs pressure map of the GM AC refrigerant sensor? (AC Delco pn 15-51258)

I've done some googling without much luck...

andrewb70

08-03-2015, 08:20 AM

On the idea of a standalone controller, does anybody have a line on the voltage vs pressure map of the GM AC refrigerant sensor? (AC Delco pn 15-51258)

I've done some googling without much luck...

John,

If you know the max pressure reading of the sensor, then you can plot the output curve. From what I have seen (at least with the 5v oil pressure sensors) the output will be linear from .5 to 4.5 volts (.5 volts =0, 4.5 volts = max). You can verify this with your air compressor to a certain point.

Andrew

parsonsj

08-03-2015, 08:24 AM

Andrew, that's good info. I can actually gather that from the car, using a DMM and gauge set.

parsonsj

08-03-2015, 09:39 AM

So I did just that:

115714

andrewb70

08-03-2015, 09:56 AM

Looks linear to me, except for the 4.2v datum.

Andrew

parsonsj

08-03-2015, 10:04 AM

My guess: that's a gauge problem. My compressor cycles off a little above that, 375 or so on the gauge. Vintage Air says their binary switch cycles the compressor off at 406.

TBART70

08-04-2015, 03:07 AM

Deralle
has no switched ignition. It relies on the temp going down to turn off. It also wants you to put the probe in the cold side lower radiator. I had it there and with the adjustment I could not get the fans on. I put it in the hot side and adjusted it. Car runs 180 now. I am adding a time delay relay to shut off the sensor at 3 minutes ignition off.

parsonsj

08-04-2015, 04:34 AM

I was going to connect the Derale via relays driven by switched ignition, but that's still a backup plan.

TBART70

08-10-2015, 06:08 AM

parsonsj

08-10-2015, 04:57 PM

Finally.

I bought a salvage yard E67 off a V6 Malibu, sent it to a fellow in Austin TX who flashed a 2013 ZR1 OS on it, picked up a special copy of HP Tuners (2.25.xxx, still in beta), and copied my tune from the crate motor tune, and wrote the calibration out.

Voila, PWM fans.

Finally.

Geez, what a bunch of walls to knock down!

Net: The GMPP crate motor E67 OS does not and can not support PWM fans or AC pressure sensors. You have to use a late model passenger car E67 or E38 and OS, and deal with all the extra equipment implied in that. I've got a bunch of work left to delete all the DTCs that don't apply, plus puzzle out all the differences in the tuning tables.

parsonsj

08-12-2015, 06:58 AM

A postscript:

Yesterday, I transferred the tune from the old GMPP file to the new ZR1 OS tune file. I moved every single table, one by one, and did a complete audit of all the DTC codes and their behaviors. The end result was unexpected, in a good way.

I finally fired up the car, monitoring all the usual parameters, including fan desired/fan %/AC pressure.

With an identical tune (as near as I can tell) the car runs better. The idle is smoother, throttle response is better, TPS % at idle is better (27% to 19%), fuel trims are markedly improved, and O2 voltages are smoother.

There's no doubt the car runs better with the ZR1 OS than with the GMPP OS, with an identical tune. Oh, and the fans function perfectly. AC and ECT desired both work exactly as documented.

Anyway, after 4 weeks' delay, the project is back on track. I'll never use a GMPP crate controller or OS again. From now on, I'll make my own harness, and get my own controller.

TBART70

08-16-2015, 04:37 PM

Found out that the time delay relay needs to have 12 volts going through the accessory side to work. I will have to put a high amp relay in and use the time delay to control it. I wanted it to control the sensor but it has 5 volt reference which is not enough to power the capacitor.

Got it all together and it works good. 90 second delay off on the fans when car is off. PWM works well no full blast on the fans unless I hit the bypass switch.

Red67Mustang

08-19-2015, 03:12 PM

PWM works well no full blast on the fans unless I hit the bypass switch.

So the fans won't run at 100% via PWM at all?

I've been following this thread to make this mod on my 67 Mustang with HP EFI, but was curious to know if the max of 90% duty cycle would result in full on for the fans. Ie; is the control module programmed such that output voltage is equal to input voltage at 90% duty cycle?

Has anyone ever tried to measure / test this?

Thanks!

andrewb70

08-19-2015, 04:58 PM

So the fans won't run at 100% via PWM at all?

I've been following this thread to make this mod on my 67 Mustang with HP EFI, but was curious to know if the max of 90% duty cycle would result in full on for the fans. Ie; is the control module programmed such that output voltage is equal to input voltage at 90% duty cycle?

Has anyone ever tried to measure / test this?

Thanks!

I have no measured voltage to the fans at 90%, but it would be fairly easy to do. FWIW, my fan speed never even gets close to 90%. The highest I've seen it go is maybe 75% and that was after making a drag strip pass, shutting it off, having it heat soaking for 5 minutes, then starting it. Engine temp was around 210, give or take.

If I am idling for extended period of time, the engine temp is maintained to within 3 degrees (between 192 and 195 degrees), with the fan cycling to about 40%. I also have mine configured to not engage the fan at all at speeds above 30MPH, unless temp goes above 198 degrees (which it never does). My radiator was from Speedway and it cost 130 bucks. Aluminum, generic fitment, made in China no doubt.

I really see no issue with not being able to go to 100%.

TBART70

08-19-2015, 05:02 PM

The Derale PWM works off of temp sensor supplied with it not off anything in my Holley HP. If I knew about the C6 Corvette fan controller I probably would have gone that way with the HP. That might change in the future. The point of PWM is that the fans come on slowly and are constantly adjusting to conditions. The temp way is they come on at a set temp and off at a lower set temp at full speed, although my other controller that kept popping the breakers would turn on one fan then ramp up the other as needed.

parsonsj

11-21-2015, 10:39 AM

A new / different question:

Anybody know the relative difference in torque consumption by the Sanden compressor vs a C6 factory variable displacement compressor? There's a table referencing AC compressor torque consumption vs AC pressure. I'm wondering if I need to adjust the table to compensate for the Sanden taking more engine torque to run.

Anybody got a clue?

old66tiger

12-07-2015, 02:04 PM

John...Interesting...has anyone responded or have you done any experimenting?

A new / different question:

Anybody know the relative difference in torque consumption by the Sanden compressor vs a C6 factory variable displacement compressor? There's a table referencing AC compressor torque consumption vs AC pressure. I'm wondering if I need to adjust the table to compensate for the Sanden taking more engine torque to run.

Anybody got a clue?

parsonsj

12-08-2015, 06:08 AM

No.. no real response other than that the big V8 won't be bothered much by the little A/C compressor.

I added 20% to the table and called it good. I chased down a stall with this change plus some additional idle air.

old66tiger

12-08-2015, 09:29 AM

My engine cares when the AC is on. It has the ASA cam so it may not like additional load at idle. When I get back to tuning in the spring, I may give you a call to discuss some of the things you were able to work out.

No.. no real response other than that the big V8 won't be bothered much by the little A/C compressor.

I added 20% to the table and called it good. I chased down a stall with this change plus some additional idle air.

parsonsj

12-08-2015, 02:12 PM

When I get back to tuning in the spring, I may give you a call to discuss some of the things you were able to work out. I look forward to it!

David Pozzi

12-31-2015, 09:42 AM

90% max, eh? Good tip!

My approach is to get all this working with the C6 controllers, and go to a solid state relay if those controllers fail.

I've been researching PWM for use on my Camaro with Holley Dominator EFI. I'm trying to decide if I should use the Corvette unit or a Solid State Relay (SSR) Here are some info links:

Using Solid State Relays - SSR's: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110512/article.html?popularArticle
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Using-Solid-State-Relays&A=112737
Haltech wiring. With link to Haltech .pdf schematic http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?t=8090
More info on SSR's: http://www.phidgets.com/docs/Solid_State_Relay_Primer#DC_SSRs

I think a capacitor or capacitors on the load side of the SSR are needed to smooth out the square wave PWM pulses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ08OztPkb8
The SSR needed is DC on both sides, the load it can carry depends a lot on if it's used with a heat sink. A 40 amp SSR can go to a 100 amp rating if used with a heat sink. It appears you want to size the SSR to be twice the capacity of the actual load, especially if you buy a cheap China version. There is no harm in using a 100A SSR for a car fan.

A diode across the load terminals shunts the fan motor spin-down load. It's mentioned in the Autospeed page.

The Haltech diagram shows a resistor around 50 ohms across the control terminals. Mentions "pull up" I read somewhere the SSR may not shut off due to a tiny amount of current flowing to ground through the ECM circuit. The resistors may help that, but I'm not sure why. I read that for Haltech use, the resistor isn't needed if the positive input is key switched off with the engine. That will stop the fan so the resistor must help with fan shut off.

1989GTA

07-07-2016, 02:47 PM

Signing on to the thread. I am interested in doing this to my car. The problem with the Derale unit is that the fans continue to run for a while when the car is shut off.

TBART70

07-07-2016, 04:47 PM

1989GTA

07-07-2016, 05:04 PM

I have the Derale hooked up to a high amp relay, tripped by a timer relay for off. The Derale doesn't use a switched igntion, the relay does that for me (switched ignition). It is set for 90 seconds , it kills the power to it so they don't flutter on and off due to circulation.

I was thinking of doing that. A year or so ago I sent Derale and email regarding that subject and the response I got back was that I was crazy and did not know what I was doing. I thought that was an interesting response. Where did you install the probe in the radiator?

TBART70

07-07-2016, 06:09 PM

Funny thing about Derale, I broke off the a/c bypass post last year, I needed to finally get the a/c working. I purchased a new unit to replace the one I broke. I hooked it up last week and could not get it to work, a/c bypass or the actual pwm fans. I called and was told it was a voltage problem. I put in the old controller and they worked. Put back the new One and nothing. If I did not have a sensor bypass switch wired in, it would overheat. I adjusted the potentiometer as far as the voltage would go and it would not turn on. I called Derale and got someone else on the phone. He had me bypass the system and test with an ohmmeter the sensor from the old and new controller. He said according to the serial number the sensor I have in the car and the sensor in the box were wrong for the new controller. He is sending v me a new sensor and a noise filter. Goes to show you some people know what they are doing and don't assume you have no clue what is going on.

To answer your question. I had the sensor where they said to put it, the fans did not come on no matter what I did adjustment wise. I even tried heating the sensor, it did turn on then. I moved it to the hot side and it worked perfectly fine. It kept the temps reasonably good even in 90 + weather.

1989GTA

07-07-2016, 09:07 PM

Thank you for the response. Actually putting it on the hot side does make some sense. I do have a dual pass radiator. One more question. What amperage relay did you use? Maybe a part number would be better. Thanks, Allen

TBART70

07-08-2016, 04:10 AM

70 amp. I will look and see what the # is.

andrewb70

07-08-2016, 04:19 AM

I've been researching PWM for use on my Camaro with Holley Dominator EFI. I'm trying to decide if I should use the Corvette unit or a Solid State Relay (SSR) Here are some info links:

Using Solid State Relays - SSR's: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110512/article.html?popularArticle
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Using-Solid-State-Relays&A=112737
Haltech wiring. With link to Haltech .pdf schematic http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?t=8090
More info on SSR's: http://www.phidgets.com/docs/Solid_State_Relay_Primer#DC_SSRs

I think a capacitor or capacitors on the load side of the SSR are needed to smooth out the square wave PWM pulses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ08OztPkb8
The SSR needed is DC on both sides, the load it can carry depends a lot on if it's used with a heat sink. A 40 amp SSR can go to a 100 amp rating if used with a heat sink. It appears you want to size the SSR to be twice the capacity of the actual load, especially if you buy a cheap China version. There is no harm in using a 100A SSR for a car fan.

A diode across the load terminals shunts the fan motor spin-down load. It's mentioned in the Autospeed page.

The Haltech diagram shows a resistor around 50 ohms across the control terminals. Mentions "pull up" I read somewhere the SSR may not shut off due to a tiny amount of current flowing to ground through the ECM circuit. The resistors may help that, but I'm not sure why. I read that for Haltech use, the resistor isn't needed if the positive input is key switched off with the engine. That will stop the fan so the resistor must help with fan shut off.

David,

Hopefully you installed a C6 fan controller and called it a day. It works perfectly with the Dominator ECU.

If anyone cares, the Dormant version of the C6 fan is currently 69 bucks on amazon prime.

Andrew

TBART70

07-08-2016, 04:51 AM

1989GTA

07-08-2016, 08:17 AM

I would recommend going with the C6 setup if you haven't bought anything yet,as long as you have a computer capable of controlling it.

I like the Derale, but I am not happy how much lack of room there is to wire it, and to get to the adjustment, it is impossible to adjust when the car is running.

I do have the E38 ECM and it is PWM capable I have the 2011 Corvette program already loaded into it. I will look hard at the C6 PWM setup. I have HP tuners so the tuning aspect is not a problem. I was already thinking of a 70 amp relay if I went with the Derale setup. You just confirmed that would work. So let me look into what parts I will need for the C6 route. The only tricky part would be the "trinary" switch. I have an "Old Air" setup on the car now so I would have to come up with a solution to that little problem.

Samckitt

07-08-2016, 10:50 AM

What PCM is with the GMPP LS2 controller kit? It has provisions in it for the PWM fan controller. That's what I have. Maybe it is an E38.

Finally.

I bought a salvage yard E67 off a V6 Malibu, sent it to a fellow in Austin TX who flashed a 2013 ZR1 OS on it, picked up a special copy of HP Tuners (2.25.xxx, still in beta), and copied my tune from the crate motor tune, and wrote the calibration out.

Voila, PWM fans.

Finally.

Geez, what a bunch of walls to knock down!

Net: The GMPP crate motor E67 OS does not and can not support PWM fans or AC pressure sensors. You have to use a late model passenger car E67 or E38 and OS, and deal with all the extra equipment implied in that. I've got a bunch of work left to delete all the DTCs that don't apply, plus puzzle out all the differences in the tuning tables.

Samckitt

07-08-2016, 11:00 AM

I do have the E38 ECM and it is PWM capable I have the 2011 Corvette program already loaded into it. I will look hard at the C6 PWM setup. I have HP tuners so the tuning aspect is not a problem. I was already thinking of a 70 amp relay if I went with the Derale setup. You just confirmed that would work. So let me look into what parts I will need for the C6 route. The only tricky part would be the "trinary" switch. I have an "Old Air" setup on the car now so I would have to come up with a solution to that little problem.

I went to the junk yard & found a couple switches, I cut the hard line a few inches on either side to have installed in my system. AC guy near me can take the screw in base & solder them onto an elbow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_20141009_204653_edit-1.jpg

I had previously purchased the connector & pigtail from EFI Connection & it plugs into this switch.

Here is the pigtail:
https://www.eficonnection.com/home/product/ac-pressure-sensor-connector-pigtail

andrewb70

07-08-2016, 12:13 PM

What PCM is with the GMPP LS2 controller kit? It has provisions in it for the PWM fan controller. That's what I have. Maybe it is an E38.

As far as I know all GMPP kits use the e67 ECU for the Gen IV engines. I have a feeling that GM made some changes and the earlier kits support PWM, while the later ones don't. I need to dig into my GTO and see if I can make this happen. I got my GMPP harness back in 2008, which is shortly after they released it. I got the LS7 kit and later had it tuned for my L92/LS7 cammed engine.

When did you get your kit Scot?
Andrew

Samckitt

07-10-2016, 02:28 PM

As far as I know all GMPP kits use the e67 ECU for the Gen IV engines. I have a feeling that GM made some changes and the earlier kits support PWM, while the later ones don't. I need to dig into my GTO and see if I can make this happen. I got my GMPP harness back in 2008, which is shortly after they released it. I got the LS7 kit and later had it tuned for my L92/LS7 cammed engine.

When did you get your kit Scot?
Andrew

I got it between 2011-2013 from someone on either here or Lat-G. It was new, never installed, but "used".

blown69nova

07-11-2016, 10:41 AM

andrewb70

07-11-2016, 12:11 PM

Does anyone have 2 spare 478-23124472620060 "large terminals" for the connector? My brother is installing the corvette fan module and this conn. is on backorder from mouser (18 weeks). I have 2 extras from my build.
Thanks, Steve
[email protected]

Steve,

Damn, I just sold a complete kit to someone that had a similar issue with the Mouser backorder. It would be nice to find another vendor for these parts...

Andrew

blown69nova

07-11-2016, 12:29 PM

A kit would have been nice, thanks anyway.
Steve

Samckitt

07-12-2016, 05:13 AM

I have a few kits left that has the connector body, all terminals, & seals. I was selling them for $50 each before Mouser had them available. I had to get them from over seas, & had to buy a bunch to make shipping reasonable. Willing to lower price, but want to sell them as a kit, make me an offer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_20150820_153531-1.jpg

Fuelie Nova

07-12-2016, 06:51 AM

I will look when I get home tonight. I think I do, if so they are yours for the shipping cost.
Tom

blown69nova

07-12-2016, 06:55 AM

Thanks, let me know.
If you don't have the terminals fuelie, I'll take a whole kit, samckitt. $35.00 + shipping?
Steve

TBART70

07-12-2016, 07:09 AM

I would like one just in case I throw the Derale in the street and run it over with my truck. Will pm tonight.

Samckitt

07-12-2016, 07:35 AM

Thanks, let me know.
If you don't have the terminals fuelie, I'll take a whole kit, samckitt. $35.00 + shipping?
Steve

That'll work. Paypal?

blown69nova

07-12-2016, 08:28 AM

Samckitt, before their gone, I'll take one kit.
Steve

blown69nova

07-12-2016, 08:30 AM

Paypal is good for me.
Steve

Samckitt

07-12-2016, 08:56 AM

I'll look again tonight & see how many sets I have.

blown69nova

07-12-2016, 12:14 PM

Thanks

blown69nova

07-13-2016, 04:45 AM

Anybody find anything?

Samckitt

07-13-2016, 04:51 AM

I checked this morning, I have enough for 5 kits.

Fuelie Nova

07-13-2016, 07:26 AM

I have a total of three big pins left but if you are going to buy a kit I will just keep my pins for spares
Tom

blown69nova

07-13-2016, 08:41 AM

Thanks Fuelie, I appreciate the effort!

1989GTA

07-13-2016, 11:13 AM

TBART70

07-13-2016, 04:22 PM

My 11" fans are rated at 18 amps each for a total of 36 amps. That is to much for the C6 controller unless I ran 2 of them. I think I will give the Derale PWM 16795 kit a chance with a power relay to the unit controlled by the ignition voltage.

I think my fans pull a lot of amps also, I have to check. The reason I want to go with the C6 setup is I need to set up a 1D table to raise my idle at high fan load. I can't do that with the Derale because no input in the HP for PWM. Using the C6 would already have the PWM info in the HP for the table. I am just worried one C6 is not enough. Plus I need the A/C trigger for the fans (trinary switch you guys are talking about I guess?)

On another note, is the A/C idle kick in the HP just a temporary couple second kick or is it constant? If it is constant then I might stay with the Derale, or figure out how to run one fan on the derale and one on the C6.

TBART70

07-16-2016, 04:07 PM

I set up a 1D table to raise the RPM when the A/C kick is enabled, based on IAC offset % and coolant temp. Also based on low RPM drop.

I will fire it up tomorrow and check my settings.

1989GTA

07-16-2016, 05:33 PM

I have a LS3 based 427 motor and when the A/C kicks in you cannot tell rpm wise. So that is not an issue for me. Now with the cam and all, my motor idles at 800rpm so that might make a difference.

TBART70

07-17-2016, 09:27 AM

I setup 1 advanced table for A/C kick and 1 for below 700 rpm to open up IAC based on coolant temps to keep it from stalling. We shall see when I drive it, hopefully it won't bobble and stall with the fans on high. Also installed new Derale with correct sensor, noise filter, and it works perfect, also A/C kick for fans works perfect( especially when you have a non broken stud to put the wire on in the controller ).

1989GTA

07-17-2016, 11:34 AM

Also installed new Derale with correct sensor.

Details? Mine is on order and should be here this week.

TBART70

07-17-2016, 01:35 PM

let me know what info you need. I will post up pics or you can PM your cell# and I will text them.

TBART70

07-17-2016, 01:38 PM

1989GTA

07-17-2016, 07:29 PM

OK, thanks.

Rkleypas

06-11-2017, 05:10 AM

Now that summer is back, I need to get this upgrade installed on my ride. I'm running the Holley Dominator with an LS7 in a 70 Chevelle. Other than the harness for the ECM and plug for the GM module, is there anything else? I have dual Spal fans. Anyone have the connector for the module?

andrewb70

06-11-2017, 06:01 AM

Body (Qty 1)
478-9440101
$8.58

Large Terminal (Qty 4)
478-23124472620060
$3.45

Large Terminal Seal (Qty 4)
478-10800472742091
$0.77

Small Terminal Seal (Qty 1)
478-10800444522091
$0.10

Small terminal plug (Qty 1)
478-10800472631091
$0.12

Small Terminal (Qty 1)
571-2-964286-1

cpd004

01-02-2021, 10:45 AM

Robstevens

12-12-2021, 07:54 PM

Parsonsj, I have an ls3 376/480 running on an e67 gmpp. Can I just get a production car e67 ecu, reflash it to a stock 6,2 c6 tune and go from there? I noticed all the n/a ls3 seem to use the e38 ecu, but the gmpp shares the e67 with the ls9. Does any of that matter?

AEH

03-19-2026, 02:19 PM

Rather that start a new thread I'll resurrect this one. I guess it's my turn in the barrel: I cant get my fans to run in PWM.

69 Camaro, LSA Crate Engine, 4L80 with both Connect & cruise harnesses (trans & Engine).
Production E67 ECM from a 2009 CTSV.

I can set control to Descrete and command Fan 1 to ON and pin J3-49 goes to ground so I know my wiring is right.
I can jump the PWN input (J3-49) to ground (rapidly) and my fans comes on and runs so I know the controller is working and the fans are good.

Ive tried 128hz,110hz, 100hz and 20hz with no luck, Changed the Desired vs state table to all ones, changed everything I can think of to try and still no fans. I have read thru all 6o+ pages of a similar thread (lou's change) on lateral G and just about every thread on the topic I can find. I ordered a cheap oscilloscope from amazon that will arrive this weekend so I can test it and see if Im getting a pwm signal out.

I know from reading it's kinda split between people that have done it successfully right out of the box and those who got to the point of pulling their hair out. I'm squarely in that second group, and I would appreciate any insight that anyone can offer.

Set Fan control = PWM Electric
Fans = 1

E67 Pinouts
AC Pressure Sensor
J3-21 (ground)
J3-37 (5V)
J3-57 (AC pressure signal)
J3-49 PWM output

PWM Fan Control Module -
1) Fan (-)
2) Battery (-)
3) Battery (+) fused
4) Fan (+)
6) PWM output from ECM (J3-49)

dhutton

03-19-2026, 03:21 PM

Maybe this will help
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?120398-E67-PWM-fan-segment-needed&p=866780

AEH

03-19-2026, 03:44 PM

Thanks, I followed the link but it says I don’t have permission to open the link in the second post. When I signed up they never sent me a confirmation email. So I may not be fully activated.

dhutton

03-19-2026, 03:56 PM

Thanks, I followed the link but it says I don’t have permission to open the link in the second post. When I signed up they never sent me a confirmation email. So I may not be fully activated.
Did you try adding a pull-up resistor to the PWM line?

AEH

03-19-2026, 04:18 PM

No. 10K? I need to get my login fixed

dhutton

03-19-2026, 04:57 PM

I would try 10k. If that doesn’t work then two 10k in parallel is 5k.

AEH

03-19-2026, 05:10 PM

a 10K between Ign power and the PWM signal, correct? just to be sure

dhutton

03-19-2026, 06:03 PM

a 10K between Ign power and the PWM signal, correct? just to be sure
That is what I would try.

AEH

03-20-2026, 12:29 PM

No luck with the pull-up resistor. My cheap oscilloscope came in. If I’m doing it right there is no pwm signal coming from the ecm. It’s also a signal generator and I was able to hook it up and control the fans. Ramp them up and down. I’m thinking my ecm may now be the right vintage and may not be capable. It’s supposed to be from a 2009 ctsv. Any other ideas to try?