Hey builders - interested or am I crazy?

[69Pony]

Hi guys,

Let me know if I am way off base - I can take it. I have about $45K set aside for a pro-tour upgrade on my Mach 1. The Mach is in great shape as you can see in my profile below. I'd like to upgrade the suspension to Air Ride Level III, big brakes, TCP frame connectors, TCP shock tower braces, TCP spindles, 17/18" wheels, Roush 427 engine, RandleRack, re-wire with painless or AAW, Dakota Digital VHX cluster, some bling in the engine bay (aluminum radiator, fan(s), March pulleys, dynamat, etc...

I plan on doing a lot of the interior and prep work (clean up the engine bay, pull the old engine, re-wire) but I'm not sure I have the expertise or space to complete the suspension, brakes, engine shakeout and wiring. Actually I could muddle through as I have done similar work in the past but it would be a 5 year project for me with what little time I have.

So my question is would a builder take on this project labor wise if I were to buy the hardware from them and allow them to show the car for a period of time? I'm not sure if my mods are worthy of a SEMA show though. I'd think most of the labor would be straight forward but the build would offer some challenges (ride height, incorporating the shaker hood, etc...). So what's in it for the builder? A clean car and all the parts required (no hardware costs) and the ability to show it (not flog it) through fall of 2015. What's in it for me - a professional builder completing my car.

Yeah - I know I'm asking for a lot of labor for free but I'm sure with the right builder and situation I could come up with some additional $$$ (maybe 5-10K). I also have a fair amount of parts I (we) could re-sell and either put towards more hardware or help with shop costs. I figure the 351C engine parts, FPA headers, some original Mustang parts, rear leafs, Cal-tracs, Magnum 500 wheels and a couple of other parts would be worth 3-5K on the re-sell / discount market.

I can also try to get some publicity with some Mustang mags, as well as, work with sponsors to see if they would give the builder a shout out. Also because it's a "real" Mach 1 we could generate a little discussion on the Mustang forums about taking a true Mach and converting it. No worries - it was low end Mach originally with a 351V2, FMX automatic and an open 3.00 rear end but it would create some buzz and views.

I'm not totally stuck on the parts listed above so I could work with someone who's a dealer of similar products or someone who has sponsor help.

So am I crazy for asking or is this something that might interest an established builder? One thing I can tell you up front is I'm honest, reliable and responsible and would be looking for the same traits in a builder. I'd be happy to work up a contract outlining the work and allowing the car to be shown. I'm interested if you have similar or other ideas for the Mach. Thanks for reading and Happy New Year!

John

[srh3trinity]

Just on first glance, you have more than 45k in parts listed there. Even bolt ons with a shop build add up pretty fast. Do you have to do paint? Bodywork? I can't comment for a shop, but I would think these days you would have to do something pretty unique for a shop to get noticed on a build. I don't know about the ins and outs of a sponsor built car, but if I had to guess, most aren't getting completely free shop labor out of a showpiece bill. Maybe reduced rates, but not free.

[Steve@CJPP]

Well I can help you with a good chunk of the parts you'll probably need.

http://www.cjponyparts.com

We have a ton of install videos and if I don't have an answer I can get one for you.

[68EFIvert]

Kind of reminds me of this.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/lords-of-the-car-hoards/

If you find a shop willing to do this let me know and I will ship my car off to them. My gut feeling is that most builders will charge the normal shop rates and customers are more than willing to let their cars be used for advertising just for bragging rights. Perhaps there is a small discount but I wouldn't think it would be much.

[Schwartz Performance]

We've been asked this same question many times.. so here's my take on it.

First you have to look from it from our point of view:

I need to define "shop car" : A car in which the shop pays for the labor and the parts, unless sponsored.
When we build a shop car, it goes through quite a process as any build does. The scope/vision, rendering, getting build partners on board, and finally actually building the car & documenting it.
As with any marketing activity, there's the question "is it worth it?"

Our shop rate is $85/hr. By having a shop car or giving away the labor, we take the same employee away from an $85/hr job, so therefore we're losing $85/hr. If it takes 300 hours (probably a low ball), that's a $25,500 loss.

For $25k we can advertise in a big name magazine for a whole year.

If we were to take it to shows and use it for promotional use, the other risk is liability. If we crash it while its in our possession, what happens?

In short, I don't think your dream is possible, because shops need cash flow.
However- a discounted labor rate, that may be a little more feasible, but the pitch has to be good, and you should have an already-established relationship with the shop beforehand.

Both sides can get burned.. Either you don't live up to the terms.. or say they skimp on the build and you get a POS after a year. Lots of fine details that may not end up being.... "worth it".

Just my opinion from the shop side! Don't take any offense please, strictly informational. :)

-Dale

[Poorhousenext]

Hi guys,

Let me know if I am way off base - I can take it. I have about $45K set aside for a pro-tour upgrade on my Mach 1. The Mach is in great shape as you can see in my profile below. I'd like to upgrade the suspension to Air Ride Level III, big brakes, TCP frame connectors, TCP shock tower braces, TCP spindles, 17/18" wheels, Roush 427 engine, RandleRack, re-wire with painless or AAW, Dakota Digital VHX cluster, some bling in the engine bay (aluminum radiator, fan(s), March pulleys, dynamat, etc...

I plan on doing a lot of the interior and prep work (clean up the engine bay, pull the old engine, re-wire) but I'm not sure I have the expertise or space to complete the suspension, brakes, engine shakeout and wiring. Actually I could muddle through as I have done similar work in the past but it would be a 5 year project for me with what little time I have.

So my question is would a builder take on this project labor wise if I were to buy the hardware from them and allow them to show the car for a period of time? I'm not sure if my mods are worthy of a SEMA show though. I'd think most of the labor would be straight forward but the build would offer some challenges (ride height, incorporating the shaker hood, etc...). So what's in it for the builder? A clean car and all the parts required (no hardware costs) and the ability to show it (not flog it) through fall of 2015. What's in it for me - a professional builder completing my car.

Yeah - I know I'm asking for a lot of labor for free but I'm sure with the right builder and situation I could come up with some additional $$$ (maybe 5-10K). I also have a fair amount of parts I (we) could re-sell and either put towards more hardware or help with shop costs. I figure the 351C engine parts, FPA headers, some original Mustang parts, rear leafs, Cal-tracs, Magnum 500 wheels and a couple of other parts would be worth 3-5K on the re-sell / discount market.

I can also try to get some publicity with some Mustang mags, as well as, work with sponsors to see if they would give the builder a shout out. Also because it's a "real" Mach 1 we could generate a little discussion on the Mustang forums about taking a true Mach and converting it. No worries - it was low end Mach originally with a 351V2, FMX automatic and an open 3.00 rear end but it would create some buzz and views.

I'm not totally stuck on the parts listed above so I could work with someone who's a dealer of similar products or someone who has sponsor help.

So am I crazy for asking or is this something that might interest an established builder? One thing I can tell you up front is I'm honest, reliable and responsible and would be looking for the same traits in a builder. I'd be happy to work up a contract outlining the work and allowing the car to be shown. I'm interested if you have similar or other ideas for the Mach. Thanks for reading and Happy New Year!

John

John,

I'm not a shop owner, but in a way I am a partner in a shop who is building a car for me. All parts purchased through shop, I pay shop cost. I pay for all material needed again at shop's cost. Labor cost is 1/2 of normal labor rate hour and has a fixed total amount, any hours needed above fixed amount come out of Shop's pocket. This arrangement saves me money and shop does not go in the hole on labor or it's fixed overhead cost unless shop made a mistake in hours they thought it would take to do build, and this includes all body work to make car a little different from run of mill builds. There is a set deadline for build to be completed in which has a cushion build incase we incounter an unforseen problem. Interior work is not included as that goes through another shop.

Will this car be at SEMA? Most likely not as it most likely want have the body modifcations and interior needed to make it stand out from other cars, and maybe not look at first glance the body has even been modified, although 95% of the cars body panels will have been modified from stock, but in a ways that are so subtle you will think body is mostly stock, unlike it's sister car below which was invited by Hot Rod Industry Aliance (HRIA) in 2011 as a reception car for them. Below is link to some pictures taken of car a Detroit Autorama. By the way if you click on the 1st picture in group of them to enlarge it, in couple of pictures you will see some guys with Green badge lanyards on. Each one of those guys is a builder of a car in the judging for Riddler award. We were at the back of building yet they came to see and talk about build. We were nobody's. Cars have to be able to make people come over an look at them to get people to notice product(s) on car offered by Companies that pay big bucks to be at SEMA. Will car you want to build make people want to check it out, or will it be more of just another 69 Mustang?

The PT cars you will see at SEMA are competition winners or cars that stand out in a crowd to drum up sales. They have to get a payback, and to believe your build would do that for them.

Subtle Outrageousness: 1964 Corvette Named “Lydia”

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2012/03/02/pics-subtle-outrageousness-1964-corvette-named-lydia/

Car while not being a custom car but a car built to drive was a Magnificent 7 car at Darrell Starbird Custom Car show in Kansas City. We were invited to show at SEMA. They put us in Magnifcent judging even though car is not a custom car uderneith or in engine compartment, it's a driver built to be maintained. Because of the distance we had to drive to get there and comps that came with be an entrant they did it as a payback for bringing car. We were not even in the HALL with the other 31 cars in judging. The shock for us was judges totally ignoring the cars short comings and making car one of the Finalist just because of the bodywork we had done to fit the wheels and tires with tire coverage and the interior work. We were shocked by this as there were 24 more entrants in judging that were true Custom car builds that were snubed and by far all were more deserving of award instead.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/P12201721-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/P1220172-1.jpg.html)

To make any Shop money, car has to be an attention getter. It has to draw attention to the quality of work Shop does to bring work in. You need to ask yourself will what you want to build to save you money provide a payback for shop that will be doing the work by bring in new jobs for them to build? The below picture was taken at a European Car and Coffee show. We got there a little early then waited on crowd. People came and looked at car, but when we cranked car it was over for the high dollar European sports cars...LOL There's nothing like a modern Small Block engine that rumbles like it's and old Chevy Big Block to ruin others day...LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/IMG4966XL1-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/IMG4966-XL-1.jpg.html)

SEMA 2011

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/PB0200471-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/PB020047-1.jpg.html)

Car weighs 3559 lbs with me in and 4 gallons of fuel, only has 360 RWHP but it's not to shabby a performer even with 1.97 to 2.1 60's foot times that are not because the 300 TW tires on the car are spinning, Engine can not even spin them on a prepped track...LOL Converter does not have enough stall built in to improve 60' times.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdrags11999startline_zps06ffab0-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdrags11999startline_zps06ffab02.jpg.html )

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdrags11999finishtline_zpsc8dfe-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdrags11999finishtline_zpsc8dfe682.jpg.ht ml)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/DSC0065XL1-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/DSC0065-XL-1.jpg.html)

PS: I covered all the travel cost to shows we did in 2012, builder did hauled car in his car hauler. I don't have a truck or trailer. Car is a driver not a trailer queen and driven to events it goes to since 2013.

[69Pony]

Thanks for the replies - kind of what I thought and that's OK. I know my mods are not cutting edge and while I do have additional plans for the body (shaved doors, drip rails, tuck in bumpers, paint, etc...) even those are not enough to turn heads these days. I do appreciate the advise and info provided.

I plan to complete as much of the work as I can in my garage and sub out the suspension install and maybe some other work to a local mechanic who has done work for me in the past.

FYI - the current list prices for all the items I listed is 41K. I've sent aside another 5k for all the "little" things like connectors, hoses, lines, etc... And will have another 10k to play with later in the summer to continue the upgrades.

I am looking for parts sellers though - so if you deal in Air Ride, TCP, Dynamat, Dakota Digital, painless or AAW and Wilwood I can provide you with my shopping list and maybe I can send you a big order (big to me at least).

thanks all and Happy New Year

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the replies - kind of what I thought and that's OK. I know my mods are not cutting edge and while I do have additional plans for the body (shaved doors, drip rails, tuck in bumpers, paint, etc...) even those are not enough to turn heads these days. I do appreciate the advise and info provided.

I plan to complete as much of the work as I can in my garage and sub out the suspension install and maybe some other work to a local mechanic who has done work for me in the past.

FYI - the current list prices for all the items I listed is 41K. I've sent aside another 5k for all the "little" things like connectors, hoses, lines, etc... And will have another 10k to play with later in the summer to continue the upgrades.

I am looking for parts sellers though - so if you deal in Air Ride, TCP, Dynamat, Dakota Digital, painless or AAW and Wilwood I can provide you with my shopping list and maybe I can send you a big order (big to me at least).

thanks all and Happy New Year

If you think it will cost around $40K, you should at a minimum count on $60k to finish the car. That's just how it goes. At that price, a new Mustang GT350 sounds pretty appealing.

Andrew