Working on some custom controls for my vintage air

[scott_fx]

Hey guys,

thought you may be interested in the project i'm working on. i wasn't very happy with the aftermarket solutions for ac controls for the vintage air system i just ordered. I decided to make my own. basically; when the car is off it'll be just two black knobs on a black panel. When the car is on, the black panel will light up with the following design:

https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106825&stc=1

and where the rectangle is in the center will be a dot matrix display:
http://youtu.be/t9YEmmx9q-k


i took a lot of time trying to make this as ergonomic as possible. the 'mode' button is actually an invisible button. you just have to touch the panel in that area to switch the modes. this shouldn't be a safety issue since there is only one button like that on the panel. so you can touch in the proximity of the area. if that proves to be too finicky then i'll just add a black anti vandal button:
http://www.oznium.com/anti-vandal-led-switch

i've also ordered up some thermistors to add to the system. it'll compare the temp coming out of the vents and adjust the ac accordingly to maintain the desired temp

the text should match my speedhut gauges nicely :)

[GRNOVA]

I like it!

[Drewstang]

Subscribing. I want to see how this turns out, I was planning on the Dakota Digital panel.

[scott_fx]

Ordered all of the supplies for the backlighting I have until the 31st to finalize the desig. Then I'll order the print. (Needs to be printed on special backlight film) but the great part about this... It's a $15 print. If I change my mind down the road, I just swap out the graphic.

Critiques are welcome.

[TCRugger]

Subscribed. Great idea.

[scott_fx]

The smoked acrylic just came in. Here is just a proof of concept test as to the visibility through it. I can't do an actual test until the el panel and backlit film print come in. But it is promising. Also when I put the acrylic over a photo, it's nearly completely dark.

http://youtu.be/MENZ9iYQ6Gg

[Drewstang]

Threads like this make me wish I would have stayed in Speed School of Engineering.

[dmastrota]

are you willing to make anothe one? if so I am interetedQUOTE=Drewstang;1108144]Threads like this make me wish I would have stayed in Speed School of Engineering.[/QUOTE]

[renegade6]

Subscribed! If you decide to make some more, put me on the list.

[scott_fx]

are you willing to make anothe one? if so I am interetedQUOTE=Drewstang;1108144]Threads like this make me wish I would have stayed in Speed School of Engineering.[/QUOTE]


Subscribed! If you decide to make some more, put me on the list.


Let it me work out the logistics and ensure I can get it working to my liking. If so I'd be glad to make a few of them. The hardware is a bit steep though. The dot matrix display is about $45 and the backlight el panel is about $25. I think the final tally is going to be above $100 in parts. Also something I'll have to look into is the various sizes of the oem ac controllers. And I have a 4 month old... So time is tight right now. If there was enough interest I could potentially make a kit with custom printed pcb's

[Drewstang]

I'd be okay with 100-150 versus the 400 for the DD unit.

[dmastrota]

I have a RestoModAir air haymaker unit. Do you think it will work with that unit? I want to put it in the stock controller location in a 69 GTO.
david




Let it me work out the logistics and ensure I can get it working to my liking. If so I'd be glad to make a few of them. The hardware is a bit steep though. The dot matrix display is about $45 and the backlight el panel is about $25. I think the final tally is going to be above $100 in parts. Also something I'll have to look into is the various sizes of the oem ac controllers. And I have a 4 month old... So time is tight right now. If there was enough interest I could potentially make a kit with custom printed pcb's[/QUOTE]

[scott_fx]

It could, it all depends on how the system is controlled. If you could call them up and ask them how their unit is controlled, it should be doable. The VA system just uses analog values from 0-5 volts. I'd assume they probably are all pretty similar.

Edit--
based on this:
http://www.restomodair.com/drive-kits/
It looks as though it's along the same lines. They are just using some potentiometers. Now to just get the values. My system is using a digital pot, so the hook up would be similar. 3 wires per function (temp, fan speed & mode). What are you currently using as a controller?

[dmastrota]

I dont have one yet. It is a new install putting car back together. I would like to do it in the stock location space. It is similar to Chevelle. The ones resto has are not lit except for the Reactor. Hovever it is a little to blingy and pricey. I will follow up. I do know this model is variable speed fan. I love your look and think it would look great.
David

[email protected]



It could, it all depends on how the system is controlled. If you could call them up and ask them how their unit is controlled, it should be doable. The VA system just uses analog values from 0-5 volts. I'd assume they probably are all pretty similar.

Edit--
based on this:
http://www.restomodair.com/drive-kits/
It looks as though it's along the same lines. They are just using some potentiometers. Now to just get the values. My system is using a digital pot, so the hook up would be similar. 3 wires per function (temp, fan speed & mode). What are you currently using as a controller?

[scott_fx]

Small update On how the controls will work:
http://youtu.be/yMkznIsGriI

[manOwar]

Small update On how the controls will work:
http://youtu.be/yMkznIsGriI
GEN IV or will it work with GEN II as well?

[scott_fx]

I don't believe gen III works the same way. Do you know if the controls are mechanical?

[kirt70camaro]

Funny that the makers of these systems can't make something a little more modern. Keep up the good work!

[scott_fx]

GEN IV or will it work with GEN II as well?
If it is a cable driven system. I think my controller could easily be retrofitted to control servos. How the cable hooks up to the servo will take some research. I'm sure there is a product out there to address this though.

Funny that the makers of these systems can't make something a little more modern. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. It is actually an easy solution for anyone to diy if you just keep it analog and don't include the dot matrix display or have the auto temp feature. The backlight and all is just a simple 12v hook up


Here is a test using the el panel behind smoked plexi. I'm not sure I'm happy with the results. It may be a quality issue or if the inverter isn't powerful enough, but I'm not 100% happy with the results. My options are to try led backlighting, which adds complexity to the build, or use clear acrylic and drop the stealth aspect of this. Before I go further down that route though, I'll wait for the prints to arrive.
http://youtu.be/vI0mmQ4j6JQ

[manOwar]

If it is a cable driven system. I think my controller could easily be retrofitted to control servos. How the cable hooks up to the servo will take some research. I'm sure there is a product out there to address this though.


This is the control that came with my GEN II system.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=475/prd475.htm

[scott_fx]

Another slight set back. Got the print today and I'm very disappointed with the print quality and light transmission. So I have two options: 1) take a chance and have another company print the image then try to solve the backlight issue.
2) do a more traditional laser etching on clear acrylic with the back painted black.

1 could lead me down a path of waiting and frustrating trial and error 2 will lose the gradients on the artwork and the stealth feature when off. But will probably be a more direct approach as it's been done in the past.

I mocked up some solid color designs. I'll post them soon

[scott_fx]

I also had some time to rework the display. added a bar graph instead of fan speed percentage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoABSKZuVBs&feature=youtu.be

i really wish that the display showed up on cam as well as it does in person. it's very clean looking




I mocked up some solid color designs. I'll post them soon

i'll be using a black anti-vandal button to switch between the different 'modes'
107127

side note: I welcome anyone with any constructive criticisms or critiques of my work. please have at it. i believe that is the best way to get a better final product.


Since a grad isn't in my future (skillset?) i opted for some solid colors. i can achieve this by adding a lighting gel between the el panel and the acrylic.
All text:
107123

All Icons:
107124

Text & Icons
107125

This is a bit of a rethink.. i could get some aluminum rings cut out
107126
inspired by the noble m600:
107128


thoughts, comments, suggestions?









This is the control that came with my GEN II system.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=475/prd475.htm

hmm, i'll need to dig into that deeper after i get mine up and running. when i originally talked to the guys at vintage air they said to not get gen II if i was going to design my own controller though.

[dmastrota]

i think it looks awesome! All look good , just a matter of preference and look desired. I would love to have one if it works out


I also had some time to rework the display. added a bar graph instead of fan speed percentage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoABSKZuVBs&feature=youtu.be

i really wish that the display showed up on cam as well as it does in person. it's very clean looking




i'll be using a black anti-vandal button to switch between the different 'modes'
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107127&stc=1

side note: I welcome anyone with any constructive criticisms or critiques of my work. please have at it. i believe that is the best way to get a better final product.


Since a grad isn't in my future (skillset?) i opted for some solid colors. i can achieve this by adding a lighting gel between the el panel and the acrylic.
All text:
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107123&stc=1

All Icons:
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107124&stc=1

Text & Icons
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107125&stc=1

This is a bit of a rethink.. i could get some aluminum rings cut out
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107126&stc=1
inspired by the noble m600:
https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107128&stc=1


thoughts, comments, suggestions?










hmm, i'll need to dig into that deeper after i get mine up and running. when i originally talked to the guys at vintage air they said to not get gen II if i was going to design my own controller though.

[manOwar]

This is a bit of a rethink.. i could get some aluminum rings cut out
107126

thoughts, comments, suggestions?

hmm, i'll need to dig into that deeper after i get mine up and running. when i originally talked to the guys at vintage air they said to not get gen II if i was going to design my own controller though.

I like the one with the ring detail, Looks great!!

If you have an opportunity to look into the GEN II, that would be great.... with limited space I have on the firewall, that was my only option. If I can't find a control astatically pleasing, I'll use the Dakota but I'll hide it in the console or something.

[renegade6]

I like the one with the rings. How do you turn the power on and off for the entire system?

[scott_fx]

I like the one with the ring detail, Looks great!!

If you have an opportunity to look into the GEN II, that would be great.... with limited space I have on the firewall, that was my only option. If I can't find a control astatically pleasing, I'll use the Dakota but I'll hide it in the console or something.
looking at some of the other controllers it looks like they are still using potentiometers to control the features. the thing that is different is that there is both a hot and a cold knob. After i get the gen iv one going i'll take some time to research more on how it works. it would require a new code or some tweaking to the existing code. If the auto temp feature isn't a concern, i think it would be a bit easier. still some mods to the code but i wouldn't have to figure out how to regulate the temp to maintain the desired temp. It's not impossible but i have to gauge how much more work it is


I like the one with the rings. How do you turn the power on and off for the entire system?

the power for gen iv is controlled by the fan speed. when the fan speed is 0 rpm, the system turns off.


hmm.. i think i like the rings too. i'll have to find someone that can machine them now :\

[dmastrota]

The Rings version.



looking at some of the other controllers it looks like they are still using potentiometers to control the features. the thing that is different is that there is both a hot and a cold knob. After i get the gen iv one going i'll take some time to research more on how it works. it would require a new code or some tweaking to the existing code. If the auto temp feature isn't a concern, i think it would be a bit easier. still some mods to the code but i wouldn't have to figure out how to regulate the temp to maintain the desired temp. It's not impossible but i have to gauge how much more work it is



the power for gen iv is controlled by the fan speed. when the fan speed is 0 rpm, the system turns off.


hmm.. i think i like the rings too. i'll have to find someone that can machine them now :\

[Drewstang]

Rings for sure.

[hessdawg]

I love the all icons

[70ish camaro]

I'm super excited for an decent looking aftermarket controller to come out for the gen 4 vintage air units. I have a 1970 Camaro so I don't know if this will fit the controller hole but the vintage air unit has a lot to be desired. I love the look of your first design.



I like this one too. not sure of the rings for me as it wouldn't go with my cars interior theme. A clean glossy black glass with black anodized "temp and speed" knobs would look sweet..... similar to those on the noble m600 picture. I like the 3 button set up and the red dot display. would also be cool in blue. maybe make the rings an option for us that don't want them, but maybe Im the minority.

107126

The only other thing I would say I liked is the icons below the 3 buttons instead of the words "dfrost dash and floor". To me it seems like too many words on the controller. But I love what your doing, so creative! As they are compressed do they have that red halo when on? come in blue?

what ever your final product is if you decide to sell, should sell off quick. Im watching this closely and I know it will be amazing.

Respectfully
Mike

[scott_fx]

thank you for the kind words.

After a set back with the prints, one of the forum members has graciously offered to help me out with that aspect of the project. I have given him 5 designs for him to print out and he has suggested an alternative method that should give us better results. The 'stealth' aspect of the build may be off the table after I test it out. I'll do a comparison between clean acrylic and the smoked.

here are the designs that we ended up with:
http://1drv.ms/15gc0DZ

The rings can be added or it can just be clean and smooth. The buttons are momentary, so they don't actually lock down into the position. they will light up though, that 'gray' ring will be the lit area.

blue is possible but the issue is the dot matrix display. i was able to locate one company that had 1 blue unit in stock with no plans on future stock (i think it was like $70 too). The other options would be orange and green which seem to be more readily available. The company that makes the units sells them in lots of 100 (or maybe it was 1,000) so blue isn't a real option right now.


dont think i updated this thread (dont want to post too much to annoy everyone) but here is the latest controller video:
http://youtu.be/UoABSKZuVBs

i changed the 'percentage' on the fan speed to a more palatable bar graph

As far as the size thing, i'll have to figure out the printing procedure but i dont think it'll be much of an issue (at least on my part) to move the elements to a different location to meet the needs of other cars. I dont think i'd really be up for a total redesign... but for the option's i already have, they are built in a way to make it easy to adjust. The buttons and knobs can be mounted in any configuration though. they will be broken out from the pcboard and attached via wires. I'll have to figure out a way to mount the display though. There may be a need to have a little work that people will have to do to get it to meet their particular application.


I've been asking around on various forum about implementing the auto feature. it seems like oem's use a very sophisticated approach to it


The modern AC system you see in many cars now has a temperature control calibrated in degrees C or F. However, this is just a fiction presented to the occupants so that they think they understand what it is doing. The actual system is controlling a large number of variables which add up to a perceived temperature. If you were to put an actual thermometer in such a vehicle, you would find surprisingly large variations.

All of these new cars have a black dome on the dash, usually in the center, pushed forward near the windscreen. This is an insolation sensor (sun strength.) It is measuring the amount of heat coming from the sun and modifying the AC cooling to compensate. Without this, you will feel hot on a sunny day and cold on a cloudy day even though the air temperature is the same.

The computer also does other smart things like not blasting you with hot air when you start a hot car: it waits for the AC to begin to work on cooling the air in the vents before it goes to full blast on the fan.

Every car manufacturer spends millions of dollars calibrating these systems for each different model they make. There isn't a plug-and-play solution that just works.

i'll do some testing but what may end up happening is that i'll just monitor the temp coming from the vintage air unit and have my controller maintain what temp (at the vent) that you dial in on the controller. it'll be up to you to adjust it to the comfortable temp. so it'll be sort of a semi-automatic system. it'll maintain the set temperature regardless of external ambient temp. if that makes sense

[scott_fx]

duplicate

[jlcustomz]

You'll definitely have me beat Scott. I started making a wood surround console eliminating the all too common billet faceplate, but retaining factory controls. Knobs not fully mounted in pic, will protrude approx. 3/4".
Maybe in the future I could add little surrounding lights like the Noble?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/DSC_0083_zpsf35202ce-1.jpg (http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/jlcustomz1/media/DSC_0083_zpsf35202ce.jpg.html)

[hessdawg]

Hey Scott
Do the make a white dot matrix??

[scott_fx]

Unfortunately they don't. Green blue and Amber are what I can get my hands on. The product. That would be ideal. Then we could change the color with lighting gels.

[scott_fx]

In waiting on the prints still, but I had a chance to solder the board for the display. It'll attach to the micro controller via a ribbon cable. Also it'll be socketed for easy updates.

We are in the final weeks of production on furious7. After that hopefully I'll be able to work on it a bit more.

[cjohnson6772]

Did you ever get this finished? I absolutely love the simplicity of this design. Can you possibly provide a list of components if you aren't thinking about marketing? What kind of micro controller are you using? Something like a Arduino with C# code? Do the knobs directly control the pots and VA system and then the micro controller just displays? Is VA's unit set up for toggle through signals for the vent selection or is that something you're implementing programmatically? Like each time the button is pressed you select a different voltage? I would love to replicate if possible! Thank you! Definitely a product that is very needed in the aftermarket!

[Charles]

Same here, any updates.

[minendrews68]

Dang! Those are nice. I'm like the other guys where are you at on these? I know I'd be interested. I'm sorry the first design didn't work out, but I really like all of them. Keep us updated please!

[minendrews68]

C'mon, you can't leave us hangin'... lol

[scott_fx]

I apologize guys! i never got any reply updates on this thread. i thought everyone forgot about it!


So an update.
here are a few of the hurdles i'm facing:

1) I had a fellow member graciously lend his printing services to help with getting the backplate/artwork nailed down. unfortunately i was never very happy with the results that i was able to achieve. I'm now exploring getting a panel cut out of acrylic or aluminum and will take it from there.

2) i STILL don't have my car back from the shop. it's been well over a year and i'm at whit's end over the entire process. The new 'estimated' finish time is right around the 4th of july. We'll see how that pans out. Unfortunately i can't do any more testing of the controls until i get the car back.... and then there is another pending set back. On august 27th we are uprooting our lives and moving to Massachusetts. So i don't honestly know if i can give this any of my time until the fall or winter, unfortunately. On the upside... i wont be in this time suck of an industry anymore and may actually have more time to dedicate to the project.

3) as far as selling kits. I will promise one thing... I will give an honest effort into getting some boards made (you may need to make a faceplate as they are different for each car) If at any point i do not feel like i can keep up with the demand, offer great quality control or provide tech support of selling them as kits, i will make a detailed 'how-to' so you guys can copy my work. I will also make the code 'open source', so anyone here that knows how to code with the arduino ide can make alterations or improvements to the design. The latter is what i really would like to do. I believe in the community being more powerful than the individual.


Did you ever get this finished? I absolutely love the simplicity of this design. Can you possibly provide a list of components if you aren't thinking about marketing? What kind of micro controller are you using? Something like a Arduino with C# code? Do the knobs directly control the pots and VA system and then the micro controller just displays? Is VA's unit set up for toggle through signals for the vent selection or is that something you're implementing programmatically? Like each time the button is pressed you select a different voltage? I would love to replicate if possible! Thank you! Definitely a product that is very needed in the aftermarket!

it's written for an arduino. i'm testing it on a mega, uno and nano.

v01 will have the pots directly controlling the va system and the unit just being a 'dumb display'. this will get the unit in the car and field testing its ergonomics. vent selection will be a simple diode and resistor and two digital pins. one for 2.5v, one for 5v and then both off for 0v.

v02 will have the pots controlling dac's or digital pots. (so i can put in a feedback loop to maintain temperature). vent selection may be same as above or with a digital pot

va's setup doesn't processing the toggle through signal. what it does recognize is voltage. so for instance. if you want to have just the floor vents on, you give it 0 volts, if you want the upper vents, you give it 2.5 volts, if you want the defrosters on, you give it 5 volts.
so yeah, each time the button is pressed, it will output a different voltage

the list of components are pretty simple:

arduino of choice
dot-matrix led (can probably easily switch it for an alpha numeric display... but it wont be as cool)
3 dacs or a 3 chan digital pot ic
momentary push button
thermistor (for temp feedback)
2 10k pots
various wires, terminals and pcboards

If you are handy with eagle or fritzing and you would like to collaborate on this project, i'd be very interested in talking more about it with you (or anyone).

[cjohnson6772]

Sorry for the delayed reply but thank you for your thorough response! I am mechanical engineer and have a good bit of experience with cad softwares and the like. I must admit I have never done any PCB design but the fritz in software looks like something I would be interested in throwing some time into learning. I also have some arduino experience albeit a couple years back. I am very proficient in C# and programming in general though. Not sure if I can help but I would love to talk sometime and see if I can contribute. I'll PM you my number and you can give me a call at your convenience. Thank you from the whole restomod community.

[scott_fx]

Awesome. I just replied. Your help and expertise is more than welcome! I really would love to get this project into the community...

[scott_fx]

Been a while, but I am almost to the point where I'll be installing my interior. Here is the latest on that project.


https://youtu.be/O7kUlYn3HjM

[reason]

looks very pro- impressive build

[scott_fx]

Thank you. It came out better than expected.


Here it is all assembled and powering up.

https://youtu.be/BbWFiTpDX58

[Whooppass]

Awesome job man

[nvmyss]

Thant is sweet if you decide to make a kit or sell complete units put me on the list.