Kinda hope Hot Rod mag is wrong

[Damn True]

Anyone see this months issue yet? The cover story, "The Next Big Thing" details the growing trend toward the street-rodification of muscle cars.

I sincerely hope they are wrong about that. These things are meant to be driven. Not sit on a convention center floor with mirrors underneath, bathed in be-bop music with a crying toddler doll leaning on the fender.

.....and if Boyd, Foose, and Trepanier's customers start seeking out musclecars in large numbers what will it do for the value of the cars? I fear it will drive the prices out of reach of many enthusiasts.

On the bright side, the more money that goes into it, the bigger the aftermarket will become.

[Johnny Blaze]

I think Hot Rod has lost touch with its readers a lot in the last couple years. I rarely look at it anymore.

[Travis B]

I see no problem with it ......only dollar signs! and muscle cars being built to a higher level than before which is good! SAR the shop that built that GTO has built some awesome rods in the past and the GTO is definitaly a nice car!

I think it is good for the hobby and will bring the value of everyones cars up! Unfortunatly the value of street rods is going to fall!

[TonyL]

not to sure I'd trust Hot Rod to tell me what the next big thing is. They missed the whole pro-touring movement because they were so entrenched in pro-street.

the next big thing? Nascar'd muscle cars.

[Steve Chryssos]

No. Hot Rod's right. And it's been coming for a long time. The traditional street rodder is getting up in his years. The new-age street rodder can relate to muscle cars. So there will be an inevitable blending of the two. Which is fine. They're all hot rods. It was obvious at Goodguy's Columbus. For the first time in the history of the organization, the 2006 Goodguys give-away car will be--a muscle car. Specifically: A Unique Foose Camaro. So goes the mainstream. :grouphug:

BUT

Just as rat rods serve as a reaction to street rods, there will be a reaction to these "modern street rod" muscle cars. I, for one, am doing everything possible to make sure that happens. Because mainstream sucks.

[Damn True]

Travis,
Well, since you are a guy that makes a living building street rods, I can understand your POV.

...and the rising value of the cars is only a benefit if you ALREADY own one. Which thankfully I do, but in terms of growth in the hobby (ie new blood) I think it will be restrictive.

I think the musclecar side of things has always had a fantastic degree of creativity and personal expression (not all of it good mind you) such as the growth of PT. I hope we don't start seeing everything clad in billet and covered in tweed.

...and as for the street rod value dropping....I have always wanted a flat black, chopped, fenderless '32 5-window with a tri-power 327 and hard as rock Cokers (better burnouts). Maybe I can scoop up someones trailer queen on the cheap?

[Travis B]

Travis,
Well, since you are a guy that makes a living building street rods, I can understand your POV.

...and the rising value of the cars is only a benefit if you ALREADY own one. Which thankfully I do, but in terms of growth in the hobby (ie new blood) I think it will be restrictive.

I think the musclecar side of things has always had a fantastic degree of creativity and personal expression (not all of it good mind you) such as the growth of PT. I hope we don't start seeing everything clad in billet and covered in tweed.

...and as for the street rod value dropping....I have always wanted a flat black, chopped, fenderless '32 5-window with a tri-power 327 and hard as rock Cokers (better burnouts). Maybe I can scoop up someones trailer queen on the cheap?

I agree it will be harder to pick up a good solid project but they will still be out there...granted you might have to give a little more but in the end you will get a little more it is a tradeoff that has been going on in street rodding for awhile!

I also do want to see chrome everything and polished this and that.....Hopefully what we will see is very nice cars with sublte body mods and new innovative ideas to the industry.....along with very drivable cars (hopefully)

fenderless 5 windows are cool!

[Damn True]

Just as rat rods serve as a reaction to street rods, there will be a reaction to these "modern street rod" muscle cars. I, for one, am doing everything possible to make sure that happens. Because mainstream sucks.

Can I get a "hell-yeah"?!

A big-fat, punk-rock http://www.spex.de/web/pic/gallery/403b87ce261b4.jpg to "pretty" musclecars.

[Bill Howell]

One point here guys. Street rodders have always been about driving their cars. Yes, the do get together and do the beebop thing, but most rank and file members drove there, not trailered. In the seventys they were putting mustang II stuff under street rods and at the time that was upgrading at its finest. I do not see this as a bad thing, there will always be different interpretations on trends. Look at us here, we agree to disagree on what we are. Anything that puts the spotlight on upgrading old cars will help us. Go to a streetrod event and see what venders are there, yes it is the same folks we buy from. The medium age of the regular streetrodder is getting up there, and venders know that they must change with the times if they intend to keep the doors open. While there will be different degrees of improving, it has to be a good thing as I see it. I know that at big streetrod shows five years age the big thing was to put in an LT1, now everyone that is anyone is doing LS conversions. This only helps us. Yes, it will drive up prices, but guess what, that is supply and demand, the good ole American way. My suggestion is rather than complain, just out there and get a deal before they go up more. Look what 69 camaros have done in the last two years. Who would have thought we would be paying 10K for rollers five years ago, but find a decent car now for less, thay are not out there. It will only get better (or worse) depending on your point of view, but I bet if you pay retail for something today, it will be worth more this time next year.

[6'9"Witha69]

To each his own. I have always wanted my car to handle well and have all the modern comforts. Here it has a name. Many of us didn't have a name for it a decade ago. Now we are seeing a new trend. I don't plan on changing so I don't mind. As long as it means more eye candy and a beefier aftermarket I am all for it.

[JL8Jeff]

I don't think it will be as much street rodification to musclecars as much as street rodification to old cars. A 6 cyl or 327 Camaro is not a musclecar so street rodifying it into something special is a great idea. Taking an original SS396 Camaro and street rodifying it doesn't make much sense unless the car is already missing most of its original drivetrain. But in the end, it's your car and you can do whatever you want to it. The prices will continue to climb no matter what the next trend is. Now if I could only get my JL8 restoration done so I can get some sort or pro-touring 2nd gen Camaro before the prices are insane!

[MuscleRodz]

I also think Hot Rod is right to a point. Look at the Camaros that won SMOTY and Columbus, as well as a lot of the other very nice muscle cars we keep calling "posers". They are essentially the street rodification of muscle cars and they are here to stay. If that is what they are calling main stream now, I would have to say we hard core types here should be relating to "pro-racification". :hmm: :dunno:

Mike

[Restomod]

If this trend is true it will do to prices of the rest of the cars we love what "Gone in 60 Sec." did to the price of FB Mustangs.......you wont be able to pick up JUNK for less than $5K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for picking up a finished steel 32 5w cheap...HA!! never happen. But I have almost enough body parts to build 3 34 Fords right now ,a 3w,5w and a Tudor!

[trapin]

I guess I don't know what 'street-rodification of muscle cars' is exactly?

Are we talking about 'Foose quality' show cars that don't get driven or something else?

[Travis B]

I guess I don't know what 'street-rodification of muscle cars' is exactly?

Are we talking about 'Foose quality' show cars that don't get driven or something else?


They are talking about guys that usually build street rods getting into the muscle cars because that is where the market is going! Which means more pro-built muscle cars showing up than there have been!

[trapin]

Ahh...I see.

I don't know how I feel about that. That's a tough one.

[Steve Chryssos]

I guess I don't know what 'street-rodification of muscle cars' is exactly?

Good question. Let's build one (on paper) It really doesn't matter which muscle car you start with. It could be a 62 Bubble Top or a 77 Trans Am. Just apply all the "must have" parts and labor from a killer street rod.

CHASSIS
-MII front suspension with Air Ride
-Air Ride "Air Bar" Rear suspension
-18"FR/22"RR billet wheels
-4 whl disc brakes (killer street rods do have good brakes)
-Big rake
DRIVETRAIN
-Crate small block
-TH350 Trans (with a big tire and a highway gear, the TH350 is still king of the street rod. Overdrive is very optional)
-9" rear (Any rear will do, but 9" is most popular)
BODY
-Shaved door handles
-Shaved window molding
-Billet grille
-Painted everything including floorboards
-Detailed bodywork is set off by extensive chromed and polished parts.
INTERIOR
-Tea's Design seats (comfort is of greater importance than support)
-Custom console
-Everything covered in leather or tweed
-Dakota Digital Dash
-Billet steering wheel

Now before anyone bitches "Wait! I have a crate engine and a digital dash. Are you callin my car a street rod?" NO. I'm saying that it's the SUM TOTAL of those key parts and cues that make a modern street rod or "Mod Rod". Style and comfort are of greater importance than performance. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's just a different set of priorities. No different than comparing a street rod to a hot rod. Street rods are clean, colorful and user friendly. So it should be no surprise that "Mod Rods" will gain in popularity. But "the next big thing" does not mean they will take over. It's too much work. It's still way easier to buy a kit 32 Ford.

In the end, I'm glad that Hot Rod is finally identifying these mod rods for what they are instead of just lumping them in with Pro-Touring cars based on sidewall height alone.
/Steevo

[parsonsj]

In the end, I'm glad that Hot Rod is finally identifying these mod rods for what they are instead of just lumping them in with Pro-Touring cars based on sidewall height alone.

Excellent point. For years we dealt with Freiberger calling us posers, and took great offense. Now that HRM can differentiate between the posers and the pro-tourers it will be to our benefit.

jp

[Travis B]

a kit 32 Ford.


/Steevo


The same bolts are used to bolt that kit car together that bolt your camaro together! Fiberglass or steel does't matter :naughty:

[Steve Chryssos]

Sorry JP, but the poser term really blows. It's a direct and unfortunate reaction to the lumping of different cars together. You can still thoroughly enjoy a mod rod. It just has a different set of goals. Once you differentiate the two build styles, the mod rod stands on it's own merits.

After drooling over Pigford's Nova and Alloway's Challenger, I would absolutely love to mod rod my 65 Rivi, then proudly park it in the garage next to my pro-touring Camaro. It would be stupid to put hard suspension and bolstered seats in the Riv. It's just the wrong platform.

And if someone walks up to my mod rod Rivi and says "Hey, nice pro-touring car", I'll explain the difference.

[Steve Chryssos]

The same bolts are used to bolt that kit car together that bolt your camaro together! Fiberglass or steel does't matter :naughty:

Nah,
You can mail order a turn key 32 Ford rolling chassis from two dozen possible sources and never break a sweat. No rust, no engineering. But you're right: The bolts are the same. :rotfl:

[MarkM66]

Speaking of Hot Rod, did anyone else get two issues this month? I did, a normal one, and one wraped with a AOL CD inside.

[parsonsj]

Sorry JP, but the poser term really blows.
You're right. Poser has a negative quality, and that's not how I feel about such cars. Mod rod works: different build style, different goals. But still worthy of attention, magazine coverage, and emulation.

jp

[toddshotrods]

I agree that it's a good thing. The only down side is higher prices for old sheetmetal, but that's going to happen over the course of time anyway - basic supply and demand. The more these cars are "rodified", the more parts and options will become available - at cheaper prices. The thing I like most though is street roddering is modern art. I look forward to seeing what is done with them over the next decade as they become more commonplace in street rodding.

In my part of the country, street rods are commonplace at the cruises and shows. The only thing I see come in on trailers are nasty drag cars with lights and plates, and everyone understands why they had to be escorted in. These street rod guys plop down on their comfortable seats, reach behind their billet steering wheels, turn the key on their crate motors, fire up the air and entertainment systems, and put a LOT of miles on their cars!!! How can you fault a guy for that, just because he has no interest in straightening out corners?

[Steve Chryssos]

I won't name names (JP), but when a certain car (II Much) launches, it will be obvious that radical style, stellar performance, and solid functionality need not be mutually exclusive.

A channelled body goes a long way towards fulfilling that ideal.

[69rs]

You're right. Poser has a negative quality, and that's not how I feel about such cars. Mod rod works: different build style, different goals. But still worthy of attention, magazine coverage, and emulation.

jp


You mean Bill?:dunno:

[6'9"Witha69]

Steve,
Great points. I was able to read the article last night and it stated that these cars were for driving. At least that was a quote in one of the captions. Neeless to say, these things are still going to be eye candy. And who knows, they may start doing things that will flood over into the PT world. Overall it will be a good thing.

[trapin]

Thanks for the clarification, Steve.

....and you're right, you wouldn't want to touch that interior in your Riv. In my humble opinion, that's the '65 Riv's claim to fame. You could put that interior into a new CTS and it would transition perfectly. It was WAY ahead of its time, and probably why I love that particular car so much.

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks. Bill's car is a perfect example of a Pro-Touring car with some street rod influence.

I've seen the detail pix. The car will speak for itself. Supercharged engine, good suspension, killer brakes, modern production based interior, etc--meets street rod inspired two tone paint, custom leather and a billet steering wheel. That the car or owner may never attack an apex in anger is irrelevant. The car will still take turns and E.T. way better than a stock 65 Goat or a typical street rod.

What is it? Mod Rod or P-T car? It's obvious to me: Pro-Touring. Bill's Goat CANNOT be a poser simply because it meets his needs to a capital "T".

But we tend to overreact because some outsider lumped the theoretical car described in my earlier post with Pro-Touring. So: The hardcore set defensively overcompensates: "If it don't see a track day, it ain't P-T." The moderate set just doesn't care--which is fine (we're not talkin about world hunger here), and the soft set, i.e. Goodguys, latches onto the blurred misconception and tries to run with it.

The solution is always the same: Education and tolerance. Hot Rod's article is a good start. Identify and clarify the distiction, then tolerance will be a natural progression.

[Steve Chryssos]

p.s. Sorry for pontificating, but with a new business at hand, I really do try to think this crap through. It means everything to me and I hope I'm being objective about it. I'll hop off the old box du soap.

[Damn True]

Steve said it far better than I did. Thanks dude.

Don't get me wrong here guys. I know some people aren't into the idea of beating on their cars at a track day or auto-x and that's cool. If I had a car with a $10k paint job I wouldn't either. For the record, cars like Bills and Prodigy are freakin awesome (even though they have poser 20"s....I kid, I kid) and they are IMO, "PT" with emphasis on the touring part.

What I was getting at is that I hope this genre dosen't become too populated with the kind of rodder who buys McHotrod (as Steve described) and dosen't understand that there is a fundamental difference between a car that is built in a style to emulate a high performance vehicle and a car that actually IS a high performance vehicle.

[Steve Chryssos]

Ha!!

Looks like www.modrod.com is taken by one of those guys with a bazillion parked domains. I'm sure he'll sell it for the right price. www.modrodder.com is free so some smart individual (Travis) should snap that domain up and start his own message board for enthusiasts of modern street rods: Muscle with street rod influence. I got no time.

Feel free to send me a royalty check if you make it big. But remember the Opti-Grab! (http://www.film.u-net.com/Movies/Reviews/The_Jerk.html)

[Bill Howell]

Thank goodness, my car is protouing since I have it stitched in the headrests and Tennessee issued "PROTOUR" as my tag!
LOL,seriously though, I know it has a lot of streetrodder styling. Why, cause it is mine and that is what I wanted.
I found this site one year ago (10-10-04) when I was searching for info for a recent purchase (80 malibu) that I intended to build for the Powertour, and cruise everywhere in. I already owned a matching number bb 69 camaro with TTII's so when I stumbed in here, I felt I had found home. From the onset, I have always been pro active in Protouring, but focused on "Touring". After getting my feet wet with the malibu, I found the 65 here in the for sale section and having owned a real one 20 years ago, knew this would be my next project. I knew from the getgo that some would question it since, truely, who is going to race a ragtop with no rollbar. However, that being said, I researched and found I could indeed buy GW stuff for the susension, Wilwood had the brake setup and Tony's (nineball) camaro with the blower really blew me away.I found Frank to do the body and the rest is history. Well, almost, it should start this weekend.
Am I a poser because of the wheels I choice or the fact it will never be on the tract much? Is it a streetrod because it has a carbon fiber dash? Will it not see the tract because I am scared of chipped paint? Is it not a street fighter because it has electric windows and A/C?
The bottom line is, who cares. I built the car , as I said at the beginning here, to DRIVE.
Steve is SO right about tolerance. The Hotrod article and similar ones will influence this hobby. We can argue until we are blue in the face,but why? I started a thread months back and we lost a great suspension guy over it. I hate he and his knowledge was lost. That taught me though that these threads never settle anything.
So, call me Poser,call me Protourer,call me streetrodder. Just please,call me when it is suppertime!

[69rs]

Thanks. Bill's car is a perfect example of a Pro-Touring car with some street rod influence.

I've seen the detail pix. The car will speak for itself. Supercharged engine, good suspension, killer brakes, modern production based interior, etc--meets street rod inspired two tone paint, custom leather and a billet steering wheel. That the car or owner may never attack an apex in anger is irrelevant. The car will still take turns and E.T. way better than a stock 65 Goat or a typical street rod.

What is it? Mod Rod or P-T car? It's obvious to me: Pro-Touring. Bill's Goat CANNOT be a poser simply because it meets his needs to a capital "T".

But we tend to overreact because some outsider lumped the theoretical car described in my earlier post with Pro-Touring. So: The hardcore set defensively overcompensates: "If it don't see a track day, it ain't P-T." The moderate set just doesn't care--which is fine (we're not talkin about world hunger here), and the soft set, i.e. Goodguys, latches onto the blurred misconception and tries to run with it.

The solution is always the same: Education and tolerance. Hot Rod's article is a good start. Identify and clarify the distiction, then tolerance will be a natural progression.


While his car is an awesome example of a Pro-Touring car with beautiful street rod influence, Bill, the man, is still a POSER!:poke:

[Bill Howell]

While his car is an awesome example of a Pro-Touring car with beautiful street rod influence, Bill, the man, is still a POSER!:poke:

Yeah, a poser with a sore back and way too much computer time on my hands today-lol

[Damn True]

Thank goodness, my car is protouing since I have it stitched in the headrests and Tennessee issued "PROTOUR" as my tag!

So, call me Poser,call me Protourer,call me streetrodder. Just please,call me when it is suppertime!

Oh no you didn't? Vanity plates?

Where is that pet peeve thread? :poke: :cheers:

[parsonsj]

Bill,
I'm sorry I won't get to see your GTO's debut at SEMA. I will definitely see it within the next 10 months or so.

Mod Rod. I like that term.

jp

[Steve1968LS2]

I sold my '69 because it came out too "street rod".. too pretty..

I wanted something a bit more vicious.. the '68 will keep its bad attitude :)

[MuscleRodz]

I sold my '69 because it came out too "street rod".. too pretty..

I wanted something a bit more vicious.. the '68 will keep its bad attitude :)
Steve, your '69 is far from what I consider street rodded. I think the guy that built the red and black '69's that was talked about recently are exactly what should be considered "street rodded". Also Cook's recently finished yellow '69 falls into this catagory imo. Cars built more for show but are perfectly driveable.

Mike

[Nine Ball]

In the same issue of Hotrod, I saw a few misrepresented statements about "pro-touring" cars again. In that GTO article, they were praising how it had useful 17" wheels instead of the "normal 20 inch wheels on pro-touring cars". Then they showed a pic of that black Challenger on HUGE wheels, stating it was a pro-touring car.

I'm also glad to see Hotrod 'define' these street rodded musclecars instead of calling them pro-touring, but that doesn't help if they still don't clearly define what pro-touring is all about in the same article write-up.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

The solution is always the same: Education and tolerance.


This is so true, and holds true for anything within the car hobby. I was hanging out with some guys who are big into imports last night, and we got to talking about cars. I asked one of the guys "What do you think my '01 SS runs bone stock" Just to see what the typical import answer would be. His answer, "hmm, umm, probably like low 14s". When I told him, it was more like high 12s, low 13s, he was pretty amazed. "Wow, that is a fast car".

He then began to tell me that my car can't handle very well, and most muslce car guys think in terms of drag racing (mostly true on the drag racing, I suppose). I told him about my '68 that was being built for handling/roadracing/stopping and, (not just) acceleration. Once again, they were dumbfounded.

Moral of the story: Rather than get upset when people do not classify things correctly, or are misinformed-- educate them.

I will admit this is easier said than done, as I've been guilty of getting upset at the misuse of the term pro-touring, and more so street fighter.

[Bill Howell]

I will admit this is easier said than done, as I've been guilty of getting upset at the misuse of the term pro-touring, and more so street fighter.

No you didn't, not you Ralph! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[BRIAN]

Guys wake up and read most of the posts on this very board. The majority are about cosmetic issues and the most are about how big of a tire can I fit in a Camaro. The majority are what you guys would call "Posers".


If Poser or Street Rodded means a well built detailed car than that is fine with me.


Where is that definition? Put a picture of Steve's? Gold Camaro next to it as from what I have seen it is one of the only cars that is driven hard and meats all the citeria. Plus he is from Long Island so that has to count for something.


Go to a Street Rod show and see how many cars are driven there. You can usually see at any Goodguys show a 2-300k car being driven regardless of the weather.

[rocketman]

this is not a new tend.the tuckers camaro back in 2000 really kinda started the movement.look around there are tons of them phr has them every month.foose.alloway,johnson,etc are building them maybe more of them than a so called street rod.