Front wheels/tires on my son's 1969 Camaro

[terrydmorgan]

Almost done with my son's 1969 Camaro, but we're getting some rubbing on the outside of the front wheel with the fender. Our setup is an OEM suspension with 2" drop spindles and Wilwood rotors and brakes. The wheels are Foose Legend 8" with a 4.5" backspacing. Tires are 235/40 ZR 18. The tires are a very close fit when wheels are straight, but there's serious rubbing when the wheels are turned. We haven't aligned the front end yet, and thus, we've got some significant positive camber. Should these rims and tires fit our application, such that aligning the front end to have negative camber will fix our rubbing issue? I'd appreciate your thoughts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/10/IMG_5784-1.jpg (http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/TERRYDMORGAN/media/Chris%201969%20Camaro/Final%20Exterior%20Work/IMG_5784.jpg.html)

[Schwartz Performance]

Get it aligned first.
That BS should work.. but where is it rubbing when you turn?

-Dale

[terrydmorgan]

They rub on the outside of the tire at the top against the inside of the wheelwell.

[Schwartz Performance]

Yeah I think your alignment has a lot to do with that honestly.

[terrydmorgan]

Great, thanks! We'll get an alignment and see what happens.

[lzdick]

Move your Z/28 emblem in the grille over one section to the driver's side and center from top to bottom (to be correct).

[terrydmorgan]

Thanks for the tip rich.

Uh oh. Ran into a problem. Adding spacers to create negative camber pulled the stock upper A-arm into my power steering pump pulley. I have an LS1 from a 2003 corvette with OEM accessories. One solution would be to install a smaller power steering pump pulley. What's an easy way to locate a smaller pulley?

[TheJDMan]

One thing I ran into with front wheel clearance was the fender liner bolts. I removed the stock bolts and replaced them with button head allen heads.

[terrydmorgan]

One thing I ran into with front wheel clearance was the fender liner bolts. I removed the stock bolts and replaced them with button head allen heads.

Thanks Steve. Good idea.

[19,69camaro]

What about your caster? When you adjust for that it should pull the UCA mount away from the pulley.

[terrydmorgan]

Aldin,
Maybe I'm thinking about this backwards, but won't the caster adjustment pull the upper A-arm even closer to the pulley? Here's a pic that shows the relative locations with zero shims installed. Eventually, we were planning on putting a Ridetech front suspension on the car. Ridetech's ad talks about being able to get negative camber without a large stack of shims, so I'm thinking that the Ricetech upper A-arm would give us more room near the pulley than the stock setup. What's the minimum we'd have to swap out now? Could we just do the upper A-arms or will they not work with the stock lower A-arms?

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What about your caster? When you adjust for that it should pull the UCA mount away from the pulley.

[speED]

It may still hit after alignment. Your stock suspension is going to give you + camber when your control arms move up/ hitting a bump. Had the same problem on a 67 Camaro, the amount of negative camber needed to compensate with stock suspension was too much.

[19,69camaro]

SpeED a taller upper ball joint will help with negative camber gain.

To add caster you want to move the upper ball joint to the rear of the car when viewed from the side. To accomplish this you add shim stack to the rear UCA mount and take them away from the front UCA mount. This is how it will move away from the pulley. Check out David's site for base alignment specs http://www.pozziracing.com/first_gen_suspension.htm#Alignment%20specs

[19,69camaro]

Ohh and while you are at it I would swap out those stock springs they are not even in the ballpark as far as spring rates go. Once again check out David's site there is tons of great information there. IMHO tubular control arms are some of the last things I would worry about changing. You can get 90% of the way there without them.

[terrydmorgan]

Thanks Aldin! We installed Heidt tall spindles, so I'm hoping that will help the negative camber. Looks like I misunderstood caster. Thanks for the help

[Rod]

please take it to an alignment shop....you will need to ad shims to move the rim back to a 0 camber, yes LS swaps often are very close to the arm mounting bolt, either use a smaller P.S. pulley or if its just the bolt cut it shorter, also a guldstrand mod will move the bolt down and back giving more pulley clearance you could look into that....

basic alignment specs
Camber - 0.5 to 1 deg negative
Caster - 3-5 degrees
toe - 1/16" - 1/8" toe in

[terrydmorgan]

Thanks Rod, the car is at an alignment shop now. A-arm itself is touching the pulley/belt. I'll look into the guldstrand mod. In the meantime, I've ordered a bracket from Speedway Motors that moves the power steering pump up. It's called an F-Body LS1 High Mount P/S and Alternator Relocation Bracket. That should give me enough spacing.



please take it to an alignment shop....you will need to ad shims to move the rim back to a 0 camber, yes LS swaps often are very close to the arm mounting bolt, either use a smaller P.S. pulley or if its just the bolt cut it shorter, also a guldstrand mod will move the bolt down and back giving more pulley clearance you could look into that....

basic alignment specs
Camber - 0.5 to 1 deg negative
Caster - 3-5 degrees
toe - 1/16" - 1/8" toe in

[terrydmorgan]

Here's a pic of an LS1 motor with the relocation bracket. Note the location of the PS pulley is much higher.

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[terrydmorgan]

Aldin,
I appreciate the advice. Which coil springs do you recommend? We're running an aluminum block LS1 from an 03 Vette with AC and a 4L60e transmission.


Ohh and while you are at it I would swap out those stock springs they are not even in the ballpark as far as spring rates go. Once again check out David's site there is tons of great information there. IMHO tubular control arms are some of the last things I would worry about changing. You can get 90% of the way there without them.

[19,69camaro]

Hotchkis makes a nice drop spring in the 600-650lb range its also not as long as the stocker so it slips right in pretty easily. DSE and a couple other brands make a similar project for around the same price.

[Rod]

Thanks Rod, the car is at an alignment shop now. A-arm itself is touching the pulley/belt. I'll look into the guldstrand mod. In the meantime, I've ordered a bracket from Speedway Motors that moves the power steering pump up. It's called an F-Body LS1 High Mount P/S and Alternator Relocation Bracket. That should give me enough spacing.

do a test fit first before bolting every thing down....depending on the motor mount, I have seen the alt on that high mount setup hit the inner fenderwell because its so pushed out to the side...

[terrydmorgan]

Aldin
My Heidt spindles have a 2" drop. Can I use a drop spring too?



Hotchkis makes a nice drop spring in the 600-650lb range its also not as long as the stocker so it slips right in pretty easily. DSE and a couple other brands make a similar project for around the same price.

[terrydmorgan]

Hope i'm not just trading one problem for another.



do a test fit first before bolting every thing down....depending on the motor mount, I have seen the alt on that high mount setup hit the inner fenderwell because its so pushed out to the side...

[terrydmorgan]

Mounted the bracket on my 2003 Corvette. OEM PS pump and alternator do not fit. Picked up a PS pump and alternator for a 2002 Camaro, but the throttle body from the Corvette interferes with the PS pump. In order to use the bracket, I'll have to swap accessories and the throttle body. Looks like it's not a feasible fix. Back to square 1.

Cheapest solution would be to get a smaller diameter pulley for the pump. Anyone know where to find one?

[terrydmorgan]

Decided to replace the plastic PS pump pulley with a later model metal pulley (2005 Corvette). It's slightly smaller and seems more durable than the original plastic pulley. The process was pretty easy. I rented a pulley puller from Autozone. The old one came right off. Heated up the metal one and used the puller to push it right on. I pushed it on a little too far and it rubbed on the pump, but then used the puller to move it back just slightly, and now it spins freely. Seems like an inexpensive and worthwhile upgrade.


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[terrydmorgan]

Aligned and brakes are working properly. We're finally on the road.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/th_234E5F8180684BDF92B1AB93C0D1B9A0-1.jpg (http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/TERRYDMORGAN/Chris%201969%20Camaro/234E5F81-8068-4BDF-92B1-AB93C0D1B9A0.mp4)