View Full Version : Buttonwillow open track, Nov 26/27

David Pozzi
10-03-2005, 10:00 PM
Green Flag Driving event, see here: http://www.greenflagdriving.com/

My wife Mary will run her 73 Camaro.

Mary's car crusing Laguna Seca http://www.pozziracing.com/Media/73_at_laguna_05.jpg

10-04-2005, 06:45 AM
That's a great picture!

David Pozzi
10-04-2005, 02:41 PM
Yes, they had a guy on the outside of turn 6 snapping away! This is the first pic of her car with it's new rear spoiler! :)
We just need to put more miles on the car, it's got around 500mi now.

Damn True
10-04-2005, 02:59 PM
Great looking car!

10-04-2005, 03:16 PM
that car looks cool. your wife is a keeper!

Mean 69
10-04-2005, 04:39 PM
We will pencil that one in, post-SEMA, and the new motor will be in and ready by then. Katz is down here now, both of us are craving getting back out to the track, to say the least.

I'll join in the comments about the car, that is a terrific picture, I hope you have some of them up on the wall!!!


10-04-2005, 06:36 PM
Hmmm, you got me thinking Dave...there is a NASA event on the 12th?! And I can't make both????

David Pozzi
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
Why not??? :naughty:

10-04-2005, 09:40 PM
I think im in....its the weekend after Thanksgiving so I might be ok. Thats if im not out of town...David, can I just race Sunday?? I think they should allow it?
Nice car I know its in a turn but it sits perfect...I can almost see a smile on her face.

David Pozzi
10-05-2005, 10:48 AM
O yeah, she was smiling for a couple of days! :)
I was riding "shotgun" and it felt great to have it running after all the work we did to it.

I kinda wish it looked that low sitting still but it's allready scraped the headers over speed bumps.
I thought the tires would rub in front but the 1 deg neg camber helps them clear.

You can run just one day, either one day or both.

David Pozzi
10-05-2005, 07:30 PM
No open test days before the weekend. I'll ask about the week following the event.

10-05-2005, 08:51 PM
Does that mean your "other" car may not be there?

Is passing allowed at this event or do they have the restrictive passing rules, i.e. Hotchkis Track Day?

10-06-2005, 09:34 AM
I always want to hang out with you guys, but I just signed up for the SV streets of Willow on Nov 18 a few weeks ago. hope you guys have a good time. take some pictures.


10-09-2005, 12:19 PM
OK, my bro and I are in, this will be the last time on the track for the chevelle, so I want to run with you guys

David Pozzi
10-09-2005, 01:22 PM
The way they run at Laguna events is, passing only on designated straight-aways. They may be more liberal in the faster groups.

10-10-2005, 06:53 PM
Great pix Dave, but it dosen't do your car justice. You can't see the ghost flames! Who painted it. It looks like a racer for sure!

David Pozzi
10-10-2005, 08:17 PM
Someone local to Salinas or Watsonville did them, they only show up in the sun and from certain angles.
You need to come down for the open track! :drive1:

10-14-2005, 09:44 PM
Dave, you need to check out petelyons.com/LolaT70Photos. I think those are pictures of your Lola in all it's glory! Hope they are! I'd love to go to Buttonwillow but I'm not quite ready yet. Got some new parts (rear disc kit etc) I'm looking to put on this winter. Look out 2006! See you soon, Larry

10-14-2005, 10:05 PM
If i can get my car finished I will make it. However at the rate my cars going who knows!!

David Pozzi
10-15-2005, 05:58 PM
We should be doing a bunch of open tracks next year. It would be great if you could make it, but make sure your car is completely ready before you go to one.

I bought a fiew pics of my car from Pete Lyons. There is a new book coming out that will have some additional pics, and I just found a couple in the Dave Friedman book "Pro Sports Car Racing 1958-1974.

I'm building a history page for my car now that I have a fiew pics. http://www.pozziracing.com/buck_fulp_lola_t-70.htm

Here's one from Buck Fulp himself, its "my" lola in the background, his "new" Mk2 lola in the foreground. He ran the Mk2 in 1966, my Mk1 in 65 at Bridgehampton, Watkins Glen, and in two races at Nassau.

10-16-2005, 08:22 AM
What are some of the guidelines for an open track day. I wouldn't mind finding out what my car can do but its in the mid stages of a tear down. No interior, no glass and no weatherstripping. But it is drivable.

David Pozzi
10-16-2005, 10:39 AM
Try sending an email to them using the link in my first post. They had some all-out racecars at their Laguna Seca event, so I don't think they care if you have an interior.

11-16-2005, 08:41 PM
Hey guys, I just wanna get an updated head count on who is going to make this event, 'cause the thread hasn't been hit in awhile. I'm wanting to see a big turn out!

David Pozzi
11-16-2005, 08:55 PM
Mary's signed up for yellow group, both days, I hear there is a BBQ on sat night.
I've been thrashing on my Motorhome, it's never towed before so lots to do to get it ready.

11-16-2005, 10:02 PM
I'll be there on sunday, signed up for the yellow group. This will be my first run with Green Flag, second time at Buttonwillow. Hope to make a few more locations next year. A friend from town will have his corvette there. He has not signed up on the Pro-Touring site yet.

Mean 69
11-17-2005, 11:23 AM
I doubt we will be able to make the event with a car. The motor was supposed to be done last week, so we would have had time to install and break-in before the event, but with the extra week delay, I doubt we'll be able to make it. And I am bummed like you can't believe. The motor woes should be a thing of the past when we finally get it in the car, third time is a charm.


11-17-2005, 05:41 PM
I doubt we will be able to make the event with a car. The motor was supposed to be done last week, so we would have had time to install and break-in before the event, but with the extra week delay, I doubt we'll be able to make it. And I am bummed like you can't believe. The motor woes should be a thing of the past when we finally get it in the car, third time is a charm.


What are the new motor's specs?

Larry Callahan
11-17-2005, 07:37 PM
Oh man! I'd love to go but, with a 4 day weekend we already had plans. Maybe I can sneak up for one of the days. Will most people be there on Saturday or Sunday? Will they allow spectators?

11-17-2005, 08:36 PM
My brother and I are going Saturday, we signed up for "Green" I guess we can alway come down if we get our doors blown off. (lol)

David Pozzi
11-17-2005, 10:29 PM
There should be no problem going for a ride or spectating, I've done it at their Laguna Seca events. Sat after they run, they are supposed to have a BBQ.

Damn True
11-18-2005, 02:00 AM
Cool, if I'm able to make it I will definitely bring a helmet.

11-18-2005, 10:23 PM
can't make it this time around. Damn, but true...

11-27-2005, 05:58 PM
That was a great weekend of race'in!!! Thank for the heads up on that club Dave P. and going for a ride with me. I've never seen so many vintage cars run so hard at an event like that! I finally got my first spin off the track out of the way. I would highly recommend to everyone going to one of these events, either entering or just to watch...it was great!!! True, it was nice to meet ya, and get that camaro running!

11-27-2005, 06:09 PM
Do you have any pictures?

David Pozzi
11-27-2005, 07:41 PM
I only took a fiew shots of Mary's car. Most of the time I was riding with her or getting ready to! The day went fast, and there wasn't much time. They ran 25 minute groups all day long, there were three groups, so only 50 minutes between runs. I also drove her car Sunday, I ran in another run group. After riding shotgun with several people, it's so nice to finally get to drive and see what the challenges are from the driver's seat! I learned a lot this weekend, both about the car and the racing line around the track.

There were a lot of fast cars there!
Here's one of mary crossing the finish line, I got up in the flag stand to take it.

We had a great time running with you guys! :)

11-27-2005, 08:52 PM
Wish I could have been there....

How did Mary like it?

Ralph LoGrasso
11-27-2005, 09:37 PM

That's the first time I've seen Mary's car, and it is awesome! Can you list some specs? Specifically suspension mods. :)

Just out of curiosity, it looks like Mary is not wearing a helmet in that pic? Are helmets not required on open track days (I thought they were)?

Damn True
11-27-2005, 10:01 PM
It took me over 5 hours to get back to San Jose on Saturday vs 2:40 to get there. Hope your trip home wasn't as bad.

BTW, Grandma is feeling much better. Thank you for your concern.

11-27-2005, 11:07 PM
i'd wear a helmet with that scalper mirror either way....Mary's car looks awesome.

David Pozzi
11-28-2005, 06:26 PM
She's hooked, and I also had a great time driving her car, but I don't think Mary quite liked me flogging it around the race track that hard.

She was out in a familliarisaton sesson when I took the photo, no helmets allowed, speed limit for that one session was 60 mph max.

Ralph LoGrasso
11-28-2005, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the clarification, David. Hey, are those Kumho Ecsta MX? I've got them on my SS and they take everything I can throw at them on the street (and then some), but I've never been able to push them to their limits on the track. I'm curious what experienced drivers on the track (you and Mary) think of them?

David Pozzi
11-28-2005, 07:55 PM
You are correct, Kuhmo Ecsta MX tires. When I first drove the car on the street the tires seemed good but maybe not as good as the autocross tires I'd used before like the Yokohama A008R's we used to autocross with. When I say "good" I mean outright cornering G force.

On the track, the tires are very controllable and easy to drive, didn't seem to give up after a fiew hard laps and fairly precise for having such deep tread. For a full-tread tire that has no vices like growling tire noise or rough ride, - for street use and an occasional open track, it's a really great tire. We will probably get another set of rims and get some Kuhmo V710's which are DOT legal but slick tires with just two grooves in them.

I did have some issues with the Baer brakes.
The first time Mary or I hit the brakes hard on the track, the rear brakes were ready to stop but the fronts needed one good hard stop before they were ready to work. Since we didn't realize that, the first stop resulted in the rears nearly locking up, and we almost spun. I got all out of shape and I KNEW they were going to give me trouble on the first stop since that happened with Mary on her first lap session. My theory is, the 13" rotors need a little heat in them or they don't want to stop and the brakes wind up out of balance ft to rear. The 15/16" bore master cyl was a little too large, had a stiff pedal effort, also the brakes were grabby at the point of lockup. I will probably try some other pads, also we had brake fade when Mary drove her last session and was REALLY pushing the braking points. We need a better brake fluid, we had the Valvoline synthetic in there just because it was handy.

The car has a little bit too much rear antiroll bar, I need to lower that, will probably make it adjustable.

FYI, the power steering never got over 100 degrees. The small trans cooler really works!

11-28-2005, 08:31 PM
Here's one of my brother and I.

11-28-2005, 09:11 PM
If anyone is considering a track day, Green Flag Driving provided a great day. Although it was cold, the track was great. By the way, Mary did not stay in the rear view mirror very long. First chance, she flew past me and others. Great car.
By the end of the day, I blew out one of the seals to my power steering pump. It started to leak on the way back though Bakersfield. Over heated so I will be adding a power steering cooler. I will post some images later, when I figure it out.
Get a helmet, gloves and take that car out on the track and enjoy what you have built.

David Pozzi
11-28-2005, 10:01 PM
You and your brother were great to run with, thanks for the ride too! :drive1: That's a great pic of the two of you.
BTW, my left sholder is sore today, sound familliar???

Thanks for stopping by and saying hi. Your car looked great out there. I was amazed how cool the PS system was in our car. I could hold my hand on the tank after each run.

11-29-2005, 05:02 AM
man sounds like an awesome time, and thanks for the pics!!
do you happen to have any pics of your power steering system and cooler?? sounds like it worked real good.

David Pozzi
11-29-2005, 03:28 PM
Here is our page on the 73 buildup: http://www.pozziracing.com/second_gen_camaros.htm
there is a link at the top to a separate PS page with pics.
The cooler was just a Summit 3/4" thick trans cooler the tube makes 4 passes through it. I think we could have gone with half the cooler size and done OK. But if you don't have a remote reservoir, you probably need one this size.

PAI Racing
11-30-2005, 02:56 PM

I saw the Maeco hauler in the back ground of one of your photos. Did they bring anything interesting?

David Pozzi
12-01-2005, 07:00 PM
They brought several mustangs, (big suprise). I didn't see any TA cars with him, however there were some vintage TA cars running, including a Camaro.
The Maeco guy was nice enough to lend me his pop rivet gun so I could repair my car ramps, a mis-positoned wood block popped the rivets out. I wasted a lot of prep time beefing up my ramp extensions to support the Camaro, and getting the Motorhome set up to tow my trailer. The rig wallowed down the road going down to the track, but some adjustments on the equalizer hitch settled it down a LOT.

Our new SS gas tank arrived from Rick's today! :)

12-02-2005, 09:16 AM
Dave, my wife has told me that she see's a shoulder harness up grade prior to going to the next event. I tossed her around a lot, not much to hang on to in the Monte. How are they hooked up in your wife's car. I don't recall now although I looked. I notice that photo's from CarlC has his hooked up between the upper and lower rear seat. After checking on the internet, this will be one of my options. I'm also looking at procar seats, get rid of the bench. I'm only going to have the car on the track a few times a year so I don't know about adding a roll bar or rear brace yet.
I should be getting my new AGR power steering pump and a cooler today from Summit. Shouldn't have any more problems in that area.

David Pozzi
12-02-2005, 09:58 AM
Lap belts are connected to the factory anchor points, the sholder harness wraps around the cross bar on the roll bar. We have an Autopower bolt-in bar with horozontal cross-bar and the bar is the optional bolt-in type. The only thing I'm not thrilled with on the roll bar is, the feet sit near the middle of the rear foot well and it takes up more room that way. I wish they went down by the door jamb and attached to the rocker panel, but you can't bolt in a bar that way, no access to the bolts. I thought about grafting on straight sections to the bottom before it kicks inward to the footwell, but it was going to take a lot of extra time to do it that way.

There's no way we will ever have back seat passengers with that bar in there. But if you got a weld in bar with straight legs and bolt in cross bar it would be possible. You can also get a bolt in diagonal bar that would really open up the rear area when removed.
Good seats are VERY helpful. We have the Corbeau, what used to be called the Carrera, it's now the CR1 - if I remember correctly.
Scat sells a pretty inexpensive seat, just get them wide enough, ours were kinda narrow but I found out later you can get them 1" wider if you order them that way.


12-02-2005, 10:41 AM
Dave, thanks for the information I'll check out Autopower. The Scat Factory is just a few hours away so I can go there and sit in several of the seats. Plus having the car there, will also make measurements easy. They offer brackets for going from bench to buckets for my car. Wesco is also a few hours away, so I might go over there with the car and speak to their people to see what they have and their views. A day of driving.
I want to remain safe even at slow speeds and do not want a harness popping free when it's needed most. In 29 years of being a cop, I've seen lots of mayham at slow speeds.

12-02-2005, 05:45 PM
I've got Procar seats with the Corbeau 3 point harness that bolts to the back seat belt. It allows for passenger access to the rear seats, and the belts work great.

David Pozzi
12-02-2005, 07:09 PM
I remember way back in the early 70's I was a kid crusing main St, a couple of guys rear ended a larger car with their corvair, BOTH guys hit the windshield! They couldn't have been going over 30 mph and it was before seatbelts were manditory. That made a big impression on me, you can be hurt at very slow speeds.

12-03-2005, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the information on the shoulder harness hook up with Corbeau. It seems that they offer what I need. Wesco site shows only standard hookups. A call might be in order. I'm also thinking about keeping the orginal seatbelts for everyday driving, if both can be mounted to the same lap point. Any thoughts? Stress factor at the anchor point/bolt? Of course I can always install the Corbeau prior to track day. Right now I'm not sure if I can retain the orginal mounting points on the change to buckets. Measurements will tell.

David Pozzi
12-04-2005, 08:27 PM
Mary's car has the 5 point belts, they are great on the track, but kind of a pain to get assembled for a short drive. Plus comp belts are NOT DOT approved, so illegal on the street!!!

I failed in talking Mary into leaving the 3 point belts in the car. There's been a fiew times I've gotten all belted in, then couldn't reach the seat adjuster or emergency brake release. I like the lever type comp belts over the knob type. I can't seem to get the belts plugged in to the knob assy very easily.

Mary's got all the 2006 open track dates for Laguna Seca on a notepad. She's really hooked now! :)

12-04-2005, 08:45 PM
There's been a fiew times I've gotten all belted in, then couldn't reach the seat adjuster or emergency brake release.

I've gotten pretty good at using the top of my left foot.

What dates are on the top of Mary's list? :)

David Pozzi
12-04-2005, 09:03 PM
I'll have her post them here.
We pulled the old gas tank today, have a new SS tank from Rick's to install.

12-04-2005, 09:49 PM

Your wish is my command . . . and here are your dates for the Crack . . . er, Track Days (soooo addictive, that go-fast stuff).

Green Flag Driving (www.greenflagdriving.com) has three dates listed for their 2006 calendar and probably more will come once sites are determined. March 25-26 at Laguna Seca with a 90 dB noise limit, September 9-10 at Thunderhill, and November 25-26 at Buttonwillow.

The Nor-Cal Shelby Club (www.norcal-saac.org) will also have several of their events in conjunction with Green Flag (see above) but also have a few of their own. These are on April 22-23 and October 28-29, both at Thunderhill Raceway. There's some great information on their site about Open Track days, safety, rules, etc., and a good article on how to quiet your car down to meet Laguna Seca's strict noise requirements. Two of their dates also include a driver's school.

Speed Ventures (www.speedventures.net) has their 2006 schedule posted and there's a lot of dates listed for Southern CA at California Speedway and Willow Springs. They're also hosting one at Buttonwillow Raceway on September 29-30, and October 1st.

For anyone else . . . the Green Flag group is great to run with and you'll get tons of track time. The groups are out running for about 20-25 minutes per session and everyone is pretty much laid back and fun. The last event had lots of Shelby's, a couple of Cobras and Z06's, some Camaros (mostly first gen), more American Muscle, a Suburban, and various flavors of Rice. Had a nice dinner with the group Saturday night. The drivers ranged from several that actively compete in Vintage and TransAm to us first-timers. It was also lots of fun meeting some of the PT folks and seeing their cars (True, you're not in the garage working on your Camaro if you're reading this).

I've been to the Shelby Club's Open Track events and they appear to be the same at Green Flag's events. Very well run and fun.

I haven't been to the Speed Ventures events and wondered what they're like?? If any of you have run with this group please share your thoughts.

m pozzi

12-05-2005, 07:59 AM

Your wish is my command . . .

Oh I could have fun with this....

Speed Ventures is a pretty good deal. Three classes based on ability, 20 minute run times, lunch, instructors, transponders, and well run. Usually less expensive than all the others. Mostly imports. Streets of Willow is fun. Very twisty.

12-05-2005, 08:02 AM
Thanks for the seat belt info. Some companies state "not for street use" and others do not mention it. I found one that claims for street use. Thanks too for posting the track events. We will be at Laguna Seca, just because we have see several races there over the years and always thought how cool it would be to take a car out on the track. You and Mary planning to be there? We will be towing the car due to the distance home. Long ways to limp if something breaks, sould not this time due to everything being replaced. Buttonwillow was close to home.
I can't say enough to fellow members about taking their cars on the track. Very safe everyone with Green Flag was very good. Not sure what to do, hitch a ride or ask someone from the red group to ride with you. I'm sure one of the guys from Green Flag can recommend someone to you. You don't have to drive fast to have fun on the track. Speed comes from experience. Speed Ventures requires some class time with them prior to going on the track for the first time, not a bad idea if you have not been on a track before. Check out their web site.

Mean 69
12-05-2005, 08:05 AM
Carl, are you still thinking about Streets on Friday? The motor is in the car and it runs(!!!!), just need a few more break in miles and I think it is ready. I have a busy week lined up, not sure I can get through everything, but I am going to try. Won't be able to make the call until probably Wed.

I have to agree with the harnesses, I feel safe in them, but they are a total pain on the street for a quick ride. In addition, I have Cobra racing seats, they have really high side bolsters and make getting in and out a lot harder than you'd imagine. I guess safety isn't free.


12-05-2005, 02:15 PM
Likely not. If I don't get the home renovation project done, I'm in the doghouse even deeper. They will likely have another date soon, and by then I can have some other mods done.

Damn True
12-05-2005, 02:49 PM
(True, you're not in the garage working on your Camaro if you're reading this).

m pozzi

LOL! It's like you were looking over my shoulder......wierd.

As I said in another thread, right now I have higher priorities.

a) Purchase engagement ring, though we have been engaged for 6mos. so I gotta get that done.
b) Plan and attend wedding (my own) in Florence, Italy (May 23)
c) Interview / select architecht and contractors for the home renovation and get them started.

All of that has to be done before I will feel right turning the first wrench on the car.

David Pozzi
12-05-2005, 03:12 PM
MonteC... Mary will run the Laguna Seca spring event. I would like to run the Lola one day and do some tuning, but the sound limit at Laguna Seca will be 90 DB, I think, - and I don't have mufflers that quiet for my car, I can just make 103db with spiral core mufflers. There is a vintage event in Feb at Laguna I may run the Lola at but I need to find out the sound limit.

I may take it down to Button Willow next year and try some carb tuning.

Laguna Seca is more like a series of drag races from corner to corner. There aren't really any linked turns to worry about like at BW, but there are concrete barriers, so you have to be more conservative in your driving, and Green Flag is more watchful of how you drive there.

12-05-2005, 03:51 PM
Hey True,

I understand completely about priorities and we'll still be here when you return to Camaro World. Italy . . . wow and quite neat for you and your fiancee - congratulations again. Lots of planning I suspect but well worth it.

We're just keeping that Camaro cattle prod sort of primed in case those other projects get too involved. If you've got a free weekend for one of the 2006 Open Track days, come on out again.


12-05-2005, 05:07 PM
YES!!! Good job DaveP, we got Mary hooked again:woot:

12-05-2005, 09:22 PM
Will the spring event at Laguna be with Green Flag? Hope to have the new seats in by then. Dave, thanks for the information on Laguna. I may be able to keep those little turbo cars at bay. It would be good if Orngcrush69, CarlC and and or anyone else with pro-touring can make it. It's always good to put a face to the online writing.

Hey Larry, when are you going to get some small stickers and medium size shirts????? I'm not opposed to putting a sticker on the car while I'm at the event. While I'm at it, if enough members show up at one of the tracks, PHR/Steve, might show up and do a shameless plug? Photo's? Get a ride??? I like my car showing up in the magazines. To some, it's nothing to rave about, but its mine and I have lots of fun with it.

12-06-2005, 12:12 PM
HI MonteC,

Yes, Green Flag is hosting the Laguna Seca event the last weekend in March. We'd love to see you there and it would also be good to have other P/T guys and gals come up and run. We live close to the track and depending on what Green Flag plans for Saturday night (I know the margarita snowmobile will be revving it up), us P/Ters and guests all might want to get some food either at our place or one of the restaurants either in Monterey or Salinas (within 15 minutes of the track).

Laguna Seca's pretty uncomplicated and like Dave says, it's mostly straights and turns with very few transitional sections. Unlike Buttonwillow, there's more to hit if things go awry. The track also has spaces for camping and overnight stay, and Monterey is pretty close by. Since it's the off-season for tourists, lodging shouldn't be too pricey.

If anyone's interested in lodging, PM me privately with your mailing address and I'll send you an AAA Tour Book with local maps.

You also asked about shoulder harnesses and I think there's some that are a "Y" style that attach at the floor behind the front seats. A single strap comes up and splits into the "Y" before going over the top of the back of the seats and over the occupant's shoulders. Check on Summit or with a local speed shop to see if this style harness is available. That would allow you and your passenger to stay pretty secure yet not require a roll bar. Your Monte Carlo is quite nice and if you don't have to modify the interior, so much the better. And when are we going to get your wife out there . . . ??


David Pozzi
12-06-2005, 12:46 PM
Check with CarlC, he doesn't have a roll bar and I think he ran the sholder harness to the rear seat belt anchor points. Ideally the sholder harness should run horozontal or an iinch lower than your sholders and the anchor point should be within a foot of your sholders. Longer belts can stretch and cause too much movement, A Y type harness should have the Y within a foot of the sholders to prevent the harness from slipping off the sholders, a seat with holes for the sholder harness is best, plus the seat should have some sholder support in the corners.
Some people install a sholder harness bar that attaches to the body on each side of the car.

12-06-2005, 02:21 PM
Yep, mine is not ideal, but it works for now.

The single strap for the "Y" belt attaches to the rear panel near the rear seat belt mounting points. Deist recommends a max of 40* on the belt angle, and I'm right at that point. I had to drill a hole for the belt and used large plates to spread the load.

I would not use this setup if it were not for the seats. The holes in the seats will absorb the downward load, but it is by no means the best way to do it. I did not know that I would want a roll bar when I built the car back in '98, so I can blame ignorance. A roll bar is in the car's future.

David Pozzi
12-06-2005, 06:07 PM
I'm probably going to buy a DSE main hoop for my 67 Camaro, and make my own rear braces that run to the rear inner wheelwells. I'm not going to keep my rear seat since it's not safe for anyone to ride back there wth a full roll bar.

I imagine you could make the rear seat work if you made the sholder harness bar and diagonal bar removeable and the main hoop legs were straight down to the rockers, which means not a bolt-in type main hoop.

12-06-2005, 07:58 PM
Mary, I asked my wife if she wanted a turn, I did try to talk her into it, but she was afraid of breaking something. I told her that short of slamming into something, if it's going to break, it did not matter who was driving it. (Example, power steering pump). I think she will take a turn at laguna.
Right now I'm looking at the same harness system that CarlC is using to get me by. They would work with the bench seat, but my wife told me she felt the bench moving around and wants a more solid mount. ( She's the Safety something at work, even tries to get me to turn off the breaker when changing a light switch).
Anyway, I'm going to the local yard to check out a few cars to see how a removable cross bar would work. With careful planning, I think it will work W/O much disturbance to the interior for that stock look while not on the track. We bought the car new and kept it clean over the years, I'm not going to hack it now. Some friends are trying to get me to do a full cage. They don't understand.
This is a new area for me so I'll be asking several questions of Dave and who ever else can help. Any and all information will be helpful. Dave already has me on track.

David Pozzi
12-06-2005, 09:14 PM

IO port is where Mary got her roll bar.
They have a lot of options, plus you can allways modify things.
Mary's bar was ordered with a bolt in shoulder harness but for faster removal, you could use aircraft push/pull pins.

Sometimes the pull wire for the bench seat get's stuck and the passenger side will not lock in place. Also on the aftermarket seat adjusters/sliders, the Corbeau sliders only lock on one side per seat, there are sliders sold by Summit that lock both sides per seat. We are just using the single sliders for now, GM only uses single side adjusters on their early Camaro seats, but the double lock type are maybe a little safer.

12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Dave, anyone you know has a harness bar bolted between the upper seat belt mounts? After doing an internet search, I found several companies that offers a harness bar that bolts in and runs between the upper seat belt brackets. Some have an additional bar at the end to the floorboard or in the middle to the floor. None of them show a listing for the Monte, just vetts and several imports. One company on this site has braces for the frame, so I call them, they may be interested. Autopower to as they are only a few hours away. If I take the car down, they should be able to customize something. Sparco is not far so I will call them. If this works, the bar is high and out of the way for daily driving. Some still have the orginal 3 point belt in place. Most of the bars include video camera mounts so this would be nice. It appears that I might just get away with plug and play. Oh yea, that side of the bench does move a little. I just need to tighten it up.

David Pozzi
12-07-2005, 03:10 PM
Last year I did some searching to find the roll bar for Mary's Camaro, I came across some harness bars mainly for later model cars, but I don't recall much about how they were done. If your shoulder harness is way up high by the coat hooks like the early Camaros, I think that is too high, it needs to be shoulder height or just below to be safe. One might be fabricated to fit your car, but you would probably need some mounts at shoulder height on each side of the car. I have't seen one used in a car, most of the guys have roll bars or do like Carl did.

12-07-2005, 05:36 PM
I checked with IO Port Racing. They have bolt in harness bars for different vehicles and one that would fit mine. It would looks like a coat rack. It's too high and would be close to the helmets. I could get a custom one made, but for now I thinking of new buckets and the strap system that Carl has. It's just for a few events a year in the yellow class.
This has sparked an intrest into building a car for track events and some time trials/autocross. The C-4 vett is about in the right price range, got most of the goodies and the wife likes them.

David Pozzi
12-07-2005, 06:50 PM
6 months ago I saw a couple of C4's in the local auto shopper that had either a bad trans or bad engine, they were asking $1500 to $2000. It was all I could do not to buy one! :) I'd get a late 80's one with tuned port engine and manual trans. The 4+1 trans is an overdrive four speed and it goes bad with a lot of miles. could be replaced with a Richmond 5 speed or tremec, and you're good to go. The manual trans vettes use a dana 44 diff where the auto's use a dana 36. The brakes are not too good on the early C4's but can be upgraded pretty easily. Suspension geometry isn't great but that can also be improved.

If you guys need anything from IO Port, they have a 20% off sale for today, the 7th on internet only orders. Mary ordered a video camera mount tonight.

12-07-2005, 07:27 PM
[QUOTE=David Pozzi]:)
6 months ago I saw a couple of C4's in the local auto shopper that had either a bad trans or bad engine, they were asking $1500 to $2000. It was all I could do not to buy one! :)

Cool, now I know what to get you for Christmas . . .

12-08-2005, 08:06 PM
I just looked at the schedule for SpeedVentures at Buttonwillow next year. I'm really bummed out because they went from 7 or 8 dates this year to 3 for next year. I hope another org. comes in to fill the slack!

David Pozzi
12-08-2005, 10:34 PM
It's pretty early yet, perhaps they will add more dates, unless that's all that are available...

12-09-2005, 07:47 AM
Don't forget to check the Performance Driving Clinic dates.