Adam07
09-18-2014, 10:21 AM
I am in the process of getting my 72 LeMans back on the road after sitting in storage for 12 years. I am starting this thread to share my experience with these headers and with the company.
Starting at the beginning, last year while rebuilding the Pontiac 400 in my 72 LeMans, I purchased a set of Flowtech headers to replace the rusted and crushed Hedman headers that had been on the car since I bought it. In order to clear the brake distribution block, I had to put a sizable dent in one of the tubes. I also had to remove the bracket holding the distribution block to the frame. All of this gave me marginal clearance, and I was not comfortable having an exhaust header so close to the brake distribution block. I was concerned that it could potentially boil the brake fluid and prevent me from stopping.
So after doing some online research and talking to others, this May I purchased a set of Dougs D-590 uncoated headers. I installed the passenger side first, and they fit perfectly. I thought it would be smooth sailing to install them on the drivers side. Then I ran into clearance problems. The two center tubes hit the crossmember where they turned back coming out of the head. I contacted Dougs, and was told that it must be my motor mounts (even though I had replaced them last fall). I contacted Butler Performance and Tin Indian performance to see if they had ever seen this issue. Both shops said they have used this same part number many times without issue. Jim Butler recommended trying to raise the engine on that side and lower it back down to see if it would reposition at all. This was unsuccessful. I purchased a set of polyurethane motor mounts from Butler Performance, as they added 1/8" to the height of the engine. This did not solve the problem either, though I stuck with the poly mounts for reasons I'll get to later. I again contacted Dougs to see if they could exchange the drivers side header. They said they could, but I had to pay to ship the old one back, which would up being $120. The new drivers side header arrived a couple weeks later, and fit exactly the same way.
Though I could have returned the headers and tried a different brand, I did like several aspects of the Dougs headers and decided to press forward with installing them. They have a thick flange, which should help with gasket seal, and they are made of thick wall tubing. They also do not hang low below the car, and the tube routing satisfactorily clears the brake distribution block. So I reluctantly got out the torch and hammer to dent the tubes. After denting the center tubes, the test fit revealed interference with the lower control arm mount, lower control arm, and a brake line. At this point I was furious, but resigned to installing these headers. I put 7 dents on a $559 set of headers (after $150 for poly motor mounts and $120 return shipping). These headers are a close fit, but not an exact fit. Most of the dents are less than 1/4" deep, and since I don't plan to race the car I am not worried about max performance. But I am not happy at all with the product or the service I got from the company. I am glad I bought the uncoated version and didn't have to dent coated headers.
I thought about taking the poly mounts off and getting my money back for them, but when I started the car and saw how little the engine rocked with the poly mounts as compared to the rubber mounts, I decided to keep them. I don't think I will have to worry about any of the dents not providing satisfactory clearance while the engine rocks under torque loading while driving.
Though i I have talked to people who successfully used this specific part number from Dougs, I cannot recommend it to anyone based on my experience. For the trouble, I think you're better off modifying a cheaper set of headers to fit your application.
If anyone else has a similar experience, please share it here.
Starting at the beginning, last year while rebuilding the Pontiac 400 in my 72 LeMans, I purchased a set of Flowtech headers to replace the rusted and crushed Hedman headers that had been on the car since I bought it. In order to clear the brake distribution block, I had to put a sizable dent in one of the tubes. I also had to remove the bracket holding the distribution block to the frame. All of this gave me marginal clearance, and I was not comfortable having an exhaust header so close to the brake distribution block. I was concerned that it could potentially boil the brake fluid and prevent me from stopping.
So after doing some online research and talking to others, this May I purchased a set of Dougs D-590 uncoated headers. I installed the passenger side first, and they fit perfectly. I thought it would be smooth sailing to install them on the drivers side. Then I ran into clearance problems. The two center tubes hit the crossmember where they turned back coming out of the head. I contacted Dougs, and was told that it must be my motor mounts (even though I had replaced them last fall). I contacted Butler Performance and Tin Indian performance to see if they had ever seen this issue. Both shops said they have used this same part number many times without issue. Jim Butler recommended trying to raise the engine on that side and lower it back down to see if it would reposition at all. This was unsuccessful. I purchased a set of polyurethane motor mounts from Butler Performance, as they added 1/8" to the height of the engine. This did not solve the problem either, though I stuck with the poly mounts for reasons I'll get to later. I again contacted Dougs to see if they could exchange the drivers side header. They said they could, but I had to pay to ship the old one back, which would up being $120. The new drivers side header arrived a couple weeks later, and fit exactly the same way.
Though I could have returned the headers and tried a different brand, I did like several aspects of the Dougs headers and decided to press forward with installing them. They have a thick flange, which should help with gasket seal, and they are made of thick wall tubing. They also do not hang low below the car, and the tube routing satisfactorily clears the brake distribution block. So I reluctantly got out the torch and hammer to dent the tubes. After denting the center tubes, the test fit revealed interference with the lower control arm mount, lower control arm, and a brake line. At this point I was furious, but resigned to installing these headers. I put 7 dents on a $559 set of headers (after $150 for poly motor mounts and $120 return shipping). These headers are a close fit, but not an exact fit. Most of the dents are less than 1/4" deep, and since I don't plan to race the car I am not worried about max performance. But I am not happy at all with the product or the service I got from the company. I am glad I bought the uncoated version and didn't have to dent coated headers.
I thought about taking the poly mounts off and getting my money back for them, but when I started the car and saw how little the engine rocked with the poly mounts as compared to the rubber mounts, I decided to keep them. I don't think I will have to worry about any of the dents not providing satisfactory clearance while the engine rocks under torque loading while driving.
Though i I have talked to people who successfully used this specific part number from Dougs, I cannot recommend it to anyone based on my experience. For the trouble, I think you're better off modifying a cheaper set of headers to fit your application.
If anyone else has a similar experience, please share it here.