Coil Overs for a G-Bodys, I have 1986 El Camino Looking feedback on brands

[Rwolf15241]

I'm looking to buy a set of Coil Overs for my G-Bodys, I have 1986 El Camino Looking feedback on brands. I have done all of the other suspension upgrades. Looking for real world input. Not all the sales BS.

Also Want to use the car for auto cross!!

Thanks RW

[Schwartz Performance]

Ridetech. No sales BS, they just work very well. We use them in 90% of our builds and on all the chassis we sell. The HQ single adjustable version, that is. :)

-Dale

[Bad94]

I did a complete RideTech stage 2 kit on a El Camino last year, and car rides better then his wifes buick.

[SSLance]

Love the Ridetech TQs on my Monte. Took home a 3rd place trophy at the SCCA Solo Nationals with them a couple of weeks ago yet drove them to work today with a smooth comfortable ride on the road as well. Their front lower strong arms let you put a 3.6" travel shock up front which is more than enough travel even with a lowered stance. I've run mine real hard for over a year now with zero issues.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

I've got Viking double adjustable true coilovers on my G Body. They're a great product that's made in the USA. I had single adjustable traditional shocks before I added the Speedtech Chicane kit to the car and I like the double adjustability better. The control dials are large, easy to reach from the outside of the car and easy to turn. I recently took the car autocross racing after finishing the swap the night before and with only playing with the compression dials I knocked 3 seconds off my time over 10 runs. Viking makes a great shock at a great value.

The Speedtech Performance "Chicane Coilover Conversion" allows for a true coilover to be mounted in place of a traditional shock and coil spring. Speedtech has had this available for the F and A body cars for quite a while, we now have the G body Chicane kit in pre-production and it will be available in about a month so. Stay tuned for more on the product release.


Here's my set up with the Chicane brackets and Viking coilovers-

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic101_zpsfe6e790d-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic102_zpsd9ef3852-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic103_zpse2403b4d-1.jpg

some pics of the car during the runs...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn102_zpsacac4d26-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn103_zpsaa94ab78-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn101_zps0ca09d5a-1.jpg

[Rwolf15241]

I guess That is the new upper front Mount??

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Yep. My brackets were fabricated here at the shop. Blake's 86 GN currently has the hybrid double adjustable coilover that has the conical spring which has a coilover bottom spring mount, and the top of the spring fits in the factory coil spring setup. He'll get the first set of Chicane brackets that come from the laser cutter based on my design along with full coilovers. Once they're installed and we see everything looks and works correctly they hit the catalog. Should be available in about just a few weeks.

[MCB Matt]

PM sent, we can get you setup with the good stuff!

Thanks
Matt

[Rwolf15241]

It's like information over load !!! I even have vendos tell me not to go with coil-overs !! To late removed rear spring mount on rear to fit watts Link. so many thing to look at !!

[MCB Matt]

Not to go with coil overs? What is their reasoning behind that? Its always nice to be able to dial in your ride height, correct for any minor lean, and what would be the ADVANTAGE of a separate coil and shock? Coils are much cheaper for Coil Overs if you decide to change rates, they are easier to install and with factory rear coil spring cars we now have a nice, simple, bolt-in option to go Coil Over and have simple ride height adjustment...??

[1966longroof]

Don't have a G-Body. However, I have Vikings on all 4 corners. Daily driver and weekend toy. As far as your application goes..........any Name Brand set up should make you happy.

[Rwolf15241]

cool, I'm looking everything over!!

[SSLance]

The trick with making coilovers work correctly on a G-body is extending the front shock mounts one way or the other to make sure you have enough room for a shock with plenty of travel without bottoming out. Those that are telling you to not use coil overs must have had experience with an application that did not do this.

[MCB Matt]

The trick with making coilovers work correctly on a G-body is extending the front shock mounts one way or the other to make sure you have enough room for a shock with plenty of travel without bottoming out. Those that are telling you to not use coil overs must have had experience with an application that did not do this.

Ben, you said Speedtech should have the upper mounts out in the next few weeks right?! This will be a great setup done that way IMO.....

Matt

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Next time I get the car on the lift I'll be able to check how much compression travel I'm getting. I'll be doing this in the next couple of weeks, I'll be experimenting with a heavier front spring up front for Fonatana.

When the car is on the lift, the control arm bumper touches the frame before the shocks bottom out. That's about 2" measured at that spot, so maybe 3" + at the wheel for droop? You can see the spacing between the frame and the poly bumper in the 3rd photo of the brackets.

Matt- yep they'll be available fairly soon.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Rwolf- Nice to chat with you earlier! My shocks have these numbers- Compressed height 10.48", Extended height 13.86, Stroke 3.82. remember the stroke at the shock is increased drastically at the wheel. I went with this shock based on the length between the lower control arm mounting surface and the center of the shock mount bolt on the upper bracket at ride height. My ride height is 3" lower than the car was with stock suspension. I'm running a 9" 550 lb spring and I am planning on trying out a heavier rate spring, the 550s seem a bit soft and not a good relationship with the new rear sway bar and 200 lb rear springs I have.

[SSLance]

Ben, we went with a 10" long 600# spring on my fronts (3.6" stroke shock) which required me to preload the spring a bit to get the shock installed, but still left lots of room for spring compression before coil bind or the bump stop hit at my ride height. I've got my front fender height at about 27.25" now. With your shorter softer spring you had in there, I'd be surprised if it wasn't bottoming out under hard braking and turn in.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Ben, we went with a 10" long 600# spring on my fronts (3.6" stroke shock) which required me to preload the spring a bit to get the shock installed, but still left lots of room for spring compression before coil bind or the bump stop hit at my ride height. I've got my front fender height at about 27.25" now. With your shorter softer spring you had in there, I'd be surprised if it wasn't bottoming out under hard braking and turn in.

Lance-

My front fender wheel opening is at 24" at the peak but I suspect fender design likely plays into that. Can you measure your frame to ground clearance at ride height? I'm right about 6" up front, measured behind the wheel, about an inch back from where the frame curves into the wheel well towards the motor basically below the body bushing.

How far below the frame at ride height do you have the lower bump stop?

Sorry to hijack a little RW, all this info will help get the right shock parameters for you.

[Rwolf15241]

Keep the info coming, I need all the help I can Get!!
Thanks again Ben for the info. Hey Lance I need to talk to You!!

[alphaenvirmgt]

I have RideTech TruTurn front control arms and sway bar, RIdeTechs 3-way coilovers on all four corners, and DSE rear arms and sway bar on my 1984 Buick Grand National. Love it!
Conrad

[Rwolf15241]

Thinking about Ridetech Lower Strong arms with the new Speed Tech upper mounts longer spring !! Feed back

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Thinking about Ridetech Lower Strong arms with the new Speed Tech upper mounts longer spring !! Feed back

I did some changes over the weekend based on how the car has been running so far. First off I checked the shock travel on the lift where I could see what it was doing. I have fairly short snubbers on it and it was coming pretty close to bottoming out the shock. Taller progressive rate snubbers on the lower control arms would probably take care of that and I will probably plan on getting some. I then flipped the lower shock mount to bolt under the control arm like the factory shocks do and fully compressed on the snubber I had roughly 5/8" of compression travel available before bottoming out the shock. Over all I have about 2 1/2" of travel at the shock in between bumpstops so that's rougly 5" at the wheel. (I forgot to measure actual travel range at the wheel.) Putting the shocks under the control arms may limit total overall droop travel slightly but unless I'm launching the car off the ground like Jay did with our Nova I doubt that will be a concern at all. I would imaging being on a lift is the only place I'll see near full droop and even then the upper control arm bumpers hit the frame before the shock bottoms out. I don't see any indication at all that I'm getting coil bind. I will eventually set up the GoPro under the hood so I can see exactly what's happening.

I also went from a 9" 550 lb spring to an 8" 700 lb spring on the front. I was running 600 lb springs before the change and I think the 550s were just a little too soft. I also noticed in photos and videos that the rear of the car was squatting quite a bit more than I'd like to see on acceleration. Since my Speedtech rear coilover conversion brackets have 3 position settings for the axle side of the lower trailing arms and my car is so low, I moved the lower arms from the stock position to down one setting. I also moved my rebound setting 2 notches higher on the rear shocks. The end result on the way home from the shop was that the car turns very differently- it is way more responsive, there's less tire slide, and it feels like it takes less turning of the steering wheel to navigate the turns. This is all done on the same fairly tight turns that I experience on a daily basis getting to and from work. I haven't crunched numbers in the computer yet, but I'm thinking I have a little more positive roll steer out back and the new front springs are helping plant the front tires better. Although I haven't tried it on a course yet, it was definitely a big improvement on the street.

I read Ron Sutton say that although it's not a lot 4-5" of wheel travel in an autocross car is an acceptable range. My thoughts are that although having a longer shock is extra insurance, on a car set up like mine it doesn't seem necessary. I believe Lance's car has a taller ride height and is using the philosophy of using a little softer spring gives more body roll and transfers the weight to the tires, similar to the Nascar philosophy of today. That way he car really take advantage of that taller spring design. I think in comparison my car is more of the old school thinking that a tighter suspension gets the job done. Hopefully this is some good food for thought RW. Feel free to jump in and comment Lance...

[Rwolf15241]

Ben:

What would be the specs on the front coil over shocks on the following 3 applications with ATS/ATX tall spindles, shock length, and spring height?? I' looking at a 650-700lbs spring

1. Stock upper and lower control arm mounts
2. Stock Lower control arm mounts, with Chicane brackets.
3. RideTech lower control arms (strong arms), with Chicane brackets

Thanks RW

[Rod]

Ben:

What would be the specs on the front coil over shocks on the following 3 applications with ATS/ATX tall spindles, shock length, and spring height?? I' looking at a 650-700lbs spring

1. Stock upper and lower control arm mounts
2. Stock Lower control arm mounts, with Chicane brackets.
3. RideTech lower control arms (strong arms), with Chicane brackets

Thanks RW

wow lot of stuff on your plate!....we did most of the work for you on our G-body car and the G-body Level 2 system (http://www.ridetech.com/store/1978-1988-chevy-g-body-coilover-system-level-2.html) is a great build.. and you can use ours or any bodys sway-bars front and rear... a single adjust shock has plenty of adjustments to dial the car into any track, and they have a LIFETIME warranty (we call it a million mile warranty) package also has our bump-steer elimination system...because I tell you what, once that car is lowered and fat sticky tires are bolted on it has worse bump that stock and tracks grooves on the road, so we built arms and bump steer to fix that.....remember we build our stuff and race it for years sometimes to build our systems........

good luck on your hunt

[SSLance]

I read Ron Sutton say that although it's not a lot 4-5" of wheel travel in an autocross car is an acceptable range. My thoughts are that although having a longer shock is extra insurance, on a car set up like mine it doesn't seem necessary. I believe Lance's car has a taller ride height and is using the philosophy of using a little softer spring gives more body roll and transfers the weight to the tires, similar to the Nascar philosophy of today. That way he car really take advantage of that taller spring design. I think in comparison my car is more of the old school thinking that a tighter suspension gets the job done. Hopefully this is some good food for thought RW. Feel free to jump in and comment Lance...


I never have had a stiff spring setup on my car, so I can't comment on it vs what I run. I will say that now that I have a much stiffer front sway bar on the car I have lowered the ride height some yet still fully travel the car with the same springs and shocks I've run up front since going to coil overs.

I took the time to measure (I call it blueprinted) every pivot point on my front suspension to the center line of the chassis, to the front and behind the spindle pins and the ground. Ron Sutton then used that information to design a setup that took full advantage of what I had to work with. All I had to do was find a way to rearrange the sway bar to keep the tie rod ends from hitting it under bump.

The main thing I learned from this procedure is...every car and every situation is different. There is no "this set up is the trick and everyone should run it" when designing a front suspension. Even G-body to G-body will have differences based on chassis limitations and individual taste and preferences.

The basic idea for the setup Ron designed for my car was to get it to travel as much as possible to transfer the weight while still retaining proper or even advantageous geometry while it is traveling to the extremes. Because of the camber and caster gain my car achieves under full compression, I can run a static 1* of negative camber and still receive a full contact patch on both front tires under hard cornering. That may not be what everyone else wants though...so my setup might not be what they need.

My point is, to really get a front suspension to work, you have to know what you have to start with first, then develop a plan to achieve as much as you can while making sure that everything works together under ALL scenarios to maximise the suspensions ability to help your car stick to the road.

Stiff springs, soft springs, coil overs, shocks, sway bars, spindle height, camber gain, bump steer...they are ALL part of the equation. The Ridetech Tru-Turn setup is the most economical bolt in setup to maximise most of this on G-Bodies that I have seen. I don't have the whole Tru-Turn setup on my car because I already had some compatible parts before, but my setup mimics what you would get with the Tru-Turn kit.

The are other ways to skin that cat for sure, but you'd be starting from scratch and designing it all on your own. Why would you do that? I and others have proven that this economical system just flat out works.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Some good points are brought up her RW. The obvious one is there are several ways to skin a cat. You're headed in the right direction though, you're asking questions. Hopefully in the end you're not more confused instead of ordering parts.

I'll admit, I'd love to see you put our parts on your car, as would any of us that supports what they have. That's the beauty of hot rodding, choices. At this point I'd love to put the Pumkinator head to head against a Ridetech, DSE, UMI, Hotchkis, Ron Sutton prepped, etc equipped car, just to see how our stuff stacks up in a real world setting, not based on what numbers are in a computer and what words are used in catalog and website marketing. Unfortunately we're out west and most of those other guys are back east so it's tough at best to get together and run on the same track. Even so, if we did that, the cars would have to have a lot of factors in common, for example Lance is partial to sticky Falkens I think, and my wallet is partial to 300 tread wear less expensive (which = less sticky) NT555s that I daily drive on. To compare apples to apples the cars would have to weigh the same, be weight biased the same, wheels tires and air pressure the same, same drivers, same track temp, ambient air temp and wind speed, same exact engine, trans, rear axle, same same same blah blah blah. The sales BS you mentioned comes down to that, as Lance said there's no way to really compare one suspension to another because all cars and all drivers and all situations are different. More on that at the end...

Ridetech makes decent stuff, we use them as a shock option. I saw some numbers on their website so I compared with what we have in the computer. We haven't punched my car's figures in yet, but Blakes 86 Grand National with our suspension is in there. Blake mentioned that based on Ron Sutton's suggestion that chassis dive isn't usually more than 1.5" in an autocross car, in dive Blake's car's toe in goes -.020 degrees at 1" and -.060 at 1.5". In chassis extension the toe change is at -.040 at 1.5". not sure on Blake's but my car has 1 1/4" before the lower arm snubber hits the frame and about 2" before the upper arm snubber hits. As I said earlier the upper snubber will likely not hit unless my car is off the ground. So what does that translate to? According to a computer the toe setting will change around -.060-.065" (Ridetech) in the quick half a second you travel through a turn. As an interesting comparison I've watched videos of my car's front tires stretch maybe up to a full inch + to one side as it navigates a corner. It kinda makes you sick to actually see that happening when you're used to seeing the tires standing still...

Rear control arm mount sway bars according to the numbers Marc at SC&C has crunched come out to be about 30% as effective as a frame mounted bar. To maximize the rear bar we only sell arms that require a frame mount sway bar and therefore sell our arms and sway bar together. We also think farting around with inconstant coil springs out back is a joke so we include a coilover conversion with our rear arms too. Our kit's brackets allow 3 different positions for the rear control arm mounting points to tune things like roll center and anti squat. Our Articulink upper and lower bars are adjustable for setting the right pinion angle and twist to prevent the bind that is associated with solid arms. Since we include sway bars I added sway bars to Ridetech's system suggested above and we're both at $4100, including our Chicane conversion brackets for the front. The Chicane brackets have been around for a long time and have been proven again and again on the other platforms. Now we've simply taken what works and applied it to a G body. There's my couple minutes of sales BS

In the end, you have a good plan in place. Comparing one suspension to another on paper isn't worth a whole lot, even comparing different folks' opinions (unless they've had a bunch of different systems on the same car) is difficult. If you want the extra insurance of having a longer shock body buy the Ridetech lowers with the dropped shocked mount. Our arms have extra caster built into them in both the uppers and lowers, not sure if theirs do or not that may be an advantage to ours(?). Without looking at computers, based on what I'm seeing on my car you don't need the longer shock unless maybe you want to go with the new school of thinking on body roll and ride height. Whether you want single or double adjustable shocks is up to you. I had singles and I like the doubles better because I can dial in exactly what my specific car wants in compression and rebound individually. I'm one of those that likes to see how changes affect the car and I want to milk all I can out of what I have so it works for me. Our stuff works well and is designed to work together as a package. I'll be beating the crap out of it on the 25th in front of a whole bunch of onlookers so with this new suspension system we'll see if I can back up my big mouth with the numbers in a real world seat of the pants situation. I've only raced it once with this new set up so far so like any car with a new suspension I'll be spending more time tuning rather than hoping to win the competition, but I hope to still be fairly competitive.

Most importantly to remember is that whoever's parts you pick, choose high quality parts that are engineered, tested, and manufactured in the USA. DON'T buy cheap crap just because the price is cheap. If you buy Chinese control arms off ebay for $200 I'm going to come slap you. ;)

[SSLance]

^
Ben gets it.

The only point of his I would correct is that the longer stroke shock we went with on the front of my car is not for body roll, it is for compression under braking. In fact, we are doing everything we can within reason to keep body roll to a minimum on my car without compromising compression under braking.

Hopefully next year we can get a few more of these G-bodies together at an event and see how they do against one another. I know I had a blast racing against Dan Howe in his Schwartz chassis G-Body last July.

[Rwolf15241]

I want a Double Adjustable Coil Over, also want to replace the lower control arms. I don't need different uppers because I'm running ATS/ATX spindles

[SRD art]

Thanks Lance, and sorry to get the shock thing mixed up. Makes sense what you're doing. Keep me posted Lance, maybe if the stars all align I can make it too. I used to live in GA so that would've perhaps made it easier but who knows, maybe next year I'll be on the road with the Speedtech display truck and we'll hit an event you guys are at. I claim junk tires though! Lol!

As mentioned above I think you have a good plan in place RW.

[SRD art]

Ben:

What would be the specs on the front coil over shocks on the following 3 applications with ATS/ATX tall spindles, shock length, and spring height?? I' looking at a 650-700lbs spring

1. Stock upper and lower control arm mounts
2. Stock Lower control arm mounts, with Chicane brackets.
3. RideTech lower control arms (strong arms), with Chicane brackets

Thanks RW

1. The hybrid shock conversion utilizing the stock mounting points is the easiest route to go, it's a slip it in and go deal. Unfortunately It's limited on springs. The most you can get is 650 lb. The shock length and stroke are about 5/8" shorter than what I mentioned earlier on my shocks's dimensions. Viking put a lot of R&D into this design so I doubt you'll have any bottoming out issues.

2. At this point we'll likely recommend the "generic" shock to go with the Chicane kit will be the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. Springs will be custom tailored to your car as there are a couple options. Viking recommends a 9" spring for that shock. I went with an 8" because that's the only way I can get a 700# spring from them. If you have something different than a 2-3" drop in ride height then we can custom tailor a different shock body to your car. Price isn't affected by shock and spring choice.

3. I don't know. You'll have to buy the arms, mock up the car at ride height and take a measurement for us. Then we can see what shock body and spring will work best. I think the Ridetech's lower shock mount is dropped 1" but I'm not positive on that.

[Rwolf15241]

I was thinking with the longer travel, I can go with a 10 inch spring, better then a 7 inch!!

[SSLance]

If you are buying parts anyway, I can not see any reason to not try to get as long of shock travel as you can get. It'll just open up your spring and setup options. You can still go stiff spring low travel if you decide to, or you can go high travel with a softer spring.

The Ridetech LCAs will reposition the lower ball joint forward. What is the difference in price between the Chicane kit and Speedtech LCAs (to also reposition the LCA) and just the Ridetech LCAs?

[MCB Matt]

Just to add a little here....

Viking has just release their " Crusader" series coil overs... Which is their Autocross setup... Its now a 21 click adjustment.

The first 4-5 clicks gives you a streetable type ride and clicks 6-21 change the REBOUND from about a 300LB rating up to a 1000LB rating!!

There have been quite a few guys out there testing these and the feedback has been great so far.

They have also now gone to bearing mounts vs poly on ALL of their Coil over applications at no extra cost.

The Crusader series is $75 per Shock or Coil Over more at Retail and available for just about every application they already make Coil Overs and Shocks for.

Matt

[Rwolf15241]

Lance:

The Ridetech Lower Front Control Arms ( Strong Arms) drop the mounting position 2 inches. The springs are 8 inches high and the spring rate is 650lbs. shock height is 14 inches, and closed 11 inches. I just need to find out if the Speed tech brackets will add any spring height, and what are the specs for this application!!. I'm using the ATX tall spindles.

Thanks RW

[MCB Matt]

I've got Viking double adjustable true coilovers on my G Body. They're a great product that's made in the USA. I had single adjustable traditional shocks before I added the Speedtech Chicane kit to the car and I like the double adjustability better. The control dials are large, easy to reach from the outside of the car and easy to turn. I recently took the car autocross racing after finishing the swap the night before and with only playing with the compression dials I knocked 3 seconds off my time over 10 runs. Viking makes a great shock at a great value.

The Speedtech Performance "Chicane Coilover Conversion" allows for a true coilover to be mounted in place of a traditional shock and coil spring. Speedtech has had this available for the F and A body cars for quite a while, we now have the G body Chicane kit in pre-production and it will be available in about a month so. Stay tuned for more on the product release.


Here's my set up with the Chicane brackets and Viking coilovers-

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic101_zpsfe6e790d-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic102_zpsd9ef3852-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/GChic103_zpse2403b4d-1.jpg

some pics of the car during the runs...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn102_zpsacac4d26-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn103_zpsaa94ab78-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/Turn101_zps0ca09d5a-1.jpg


Lance:

The Ridetech Lower Front Control Arms ( Strong Arms) drop the mounting position 2 inches. The springs are 8 inches high and the spring rate is 650lbs. shock height is 14 inches, and closed 11 inches. I just need to find out if the Speed tech brackets will add any spring height, and what are the specs for this application!!. I'm using the ATX tall spindles.

Thanks RW

I would say based on the post on the first page with the Chicane bracket pics you will pickup some spring length? I'm sure Speedtech will let us know how much but it looks like 1-1.5"?

[killer69]

I didn't read EVERYTHING Ben had to say.
We just did the install on MY GN last week to confirm the bracket fitment. Small tweaks for the laser cutter then they will be available. to the shock length. You can not increase the shock/spring length on the top side of this configuration due to the cross shaft placement. the spring cap need to fit under the cross shaft. that being said you are all wanting more travel. We can get 6.5" of travel at the wheel from bump stop to bump stop. Lance was wanting more travel for brake dive. on Bens car the bump stop needed to be lengthened so the tire rods would not contact the frame under full compression. We figured that would be enough travel! not sure how much more you want than THAT.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

My Viking coilovers have a 5/8" longer stroke compared to Viking's recommended stock mount shock. I don't think you can get more than that with my control arm configuration, but I agree with Blake, I think there's a point that having a longer shock won't make a difference because the bump stops will hit the frame long before the shock bottoms out. i.e you could bolt 36" stroke shocks on the car with control arms in the stock location and crazy dropped spring/ shock mount cups. Even with all that stroke the shock will compress and drop no more than the same amount that the shocks I have right now will, the limiting factor is the bumpstops hitting the frame rails, not the shock's stroke length.

My current set up won't bottom out the shock, so that's why I suggest the longer shock isn't necessary, at least if someone's suspension set up is similar to mine.

[Rwolf15241]

With That being said, I guess I should just go with the Ridetech lower control arms, and forget about the Speedtech upper mounts????

[oldtinsmith]

These may be dumb questions but, what is the ground clearance (at the shock mount) of the front Ridetech LCA and the front Speedtech LCA? I ask because looks can sometime be deceiving. Also, Nothing about rear coilovers? ... Okay, one more question. How do coilovers and their adjustment knobs hold up to winter driving conditions (could happen on occasion...LOL).

Doug

[Ben@SpeedTech]

RW- Not sure why you would not want them? Please explain, maybe we're misunderstanding each other...

What I am trying to say is there's nothing wrong with running the Ridetech lowers and a longer shock body/spring. Although depending on how you set the car up you may never take advantage of the extra length the drop mount arms provide. My car is a little more on the extreme end of the spectrum and what I was illustrating above is that with my set up, because the car is so low, with a stock mount and stock length shock it would possibly bottom out before the snubber hit. The Chicane bracket allows for a slightly longer stroke shock as it raises the upper mount upwards over the stock mount height. This raises the limit of shock travel allowing the snubber to hit before the shock maxes out in full compression of the suspension. Hopefully that clarifies things a bit?

You mentioned earlier that the Ridetechs use an 8" spring with their lower control arms. With our Chicane brackets Viking suggests a 9" spring. I use a an 8" spring because they don't have a 700 lb spring available in a 9" length. The nature of the coilover allows me to thread up the spring nuts to compensate for the shorter spring. As I go racing I will be looking for coil bind. I don't think I'll have a problem, but if I did I can drop to the taller 9" 650 lb spring. Note the shock body, stroke, and ride height don't change at all between the 8 and 9" springs.

Speaking to our Ridetech rep recently, he told me they use a dropped shock mount in their lower arms because the way their shocks do what they do by nature of their internal design their shocks are longer than the Vikings or other shocks on the market. Therefore they don't jive well with any brand lower control arm that has the lower shock mount in the factory positioning. To compensate for this they didn't raise the upper mount but rather they dropped the lower mount. They did not design them with a dropped lower mount to allow for more shock travel. If I misunderstood what he told me I invite a Ridetech expert to make sure I'm on the right path.


Doug- I measured Blake's GN, both of our cars have right about the same ride height and tire height. The Viking shock uses a T-bar lower mount and that drops the eye of the shock mount slightly below the arm, about 1/4". With a 275-35-18 (about 25.5") tire, there is about 4.75" of clearance between the shock and the ground. So with the Speedtech lower arms you will get the advantage of more ground clearance. I don't have a car with Ridetech lowers here to measure, but if the Ridetech shock mounts are 2" lower than stock as has been suggested that would put the bottom of the shock at around 2.75"?

We have a rear coilover conversion kit that is a really cool piece. Not only does it give you all the advantages of the coilover shock, the brackets have 3 options for your lower control arm positioning. This helps tune the suspension for it's optimum abilities for the situation, whether it be straight line racing or corner burning. Our unique lower shock mount also has two positions for mounting so you can adjust the static ride height 1 1/2 inches before adjusting the shock height itself. Here's a link to the kit- G Body rear coilover conversion (http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=305/category_id=96/mode=prod/prd305.htm)

[Rwolf15241]

With That being said, I will gain even more travel using the Ridetech & Viking combination!!! I was told your not really gaining much travel with the Speed Tech Chicane Brackets. You guys should be able to calculate what viking Shock I need with a 650-700lb spring, using a the strong arm lower control arms with or with out the Chicane Brackets. I'm running a 275/30/19 tire and a 19x9 wheel. I really can't get anymore extreme on my suspension unless I have a custom unit built (not going there)

Thanks RW

[SSLance]

The only way to be sure you get the correct length shock is to put the rest of your setup together without a spring or shock in place and measure between the shock mounts with the suspension fully compressed and fully extended. This way you are sure that you won't be bottoming out the shock or topping out the shock on extension. I actually took these measurements when I first started this upgrade and then chose all of my parts to make sure I got the shock travel I wanted to match the shocks.

It is a pretty crucial measurement because using a shock that doesn't fit in either direction can ruin parts along with not work as intended.

[marolf101x]

"I really can't get anymore extreme on my suspension unless I have a custom unit built (not going there)"
I disagree
. . .you could use a higher performance shock. The Viking is a twin tube, and good for a mostly street, occasional autocross vehicle. The Ridetech shock is a monotube design, with the piston being MUCH larger (the piston and valve are what do the work). We also have a 1,000,001 mile warranty, so they are the last shocks you'll ever purchase.
. . .you could also map the suspension, determine a direction for a set up that will work with your intended driving event, shocks, tires, brakes, driving style ect. Lance has done this and his car has become quite good. I would venture a guess the reason is more so that Lance now understands what each change will do to the car, and can make the correct educated decision when needed.

If you choose not to do all this work there are many companies who have done the engineering for you. Just pick up the phone, order a kit, bolt it on, and drive like you are Scott Pruett.

I suggest you do a little more research into both shock technology and suspension design.
Just because a shock has an extra knob does not necessarily mean it's a better performing unit.
Just because you put a longer shock in the car does not necessarily mean you gain more travel.

I'm not trying to cut you down, discourage you, or try to sell you our kit. Actually the opposite. I encourage you to make your own setup. But to do so you need to know as much as you can to make an educated decision. There are many here who are ready and willing to help (Marcus, Ron Sutton, David Pozzi, Lance, myself among a hundred others.)

[Rwolf15241]

The shock specs should be pretty much standardized. The only variable is a drop control arm or a raised up shock. Adding 2 inches for a 2 inch drop control arm, or adding 5/8 of an inch for the raised upper mount. You can only lower the car 2-3 inches max from what I have seen.!!The adjustable coil over spring is the adjustment in the system for the overall height!!

[SSLance]

The snubber on the bottom of the upper arm is a factor in suspension extension, each arm from different manufacturers can have differences here. The bumpstop on the lower arm (or the lack thereof) is a factor in suspension compression. Again each manufacturer can have differences here as well as different bumpstops on each arm.

My lower control arms don't have bump stops and I rearranged my sway bar to allow for more room for the steering arm\tie rod ends under full compression. The goal was to get as much travel as I could get in the front and to get a shock body that matched that travel.

So no, my setup is not standardized. But because of the work I did beforehand, I'm certain that no matter where I set my ride height...my suspension will travel to each extreme without any binding or limits due to shock body length. Without doing the measuring yourself (or buying a pre engineered kit) you are taking a chance of the parts not playing nice with one another and causing damage or ill handling.

[Rwolf15241]

I guess Monday I will order my Ridetech Lower Control Strong Arms !!, and then mock them up!!

[SSLance]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Rwolf15241]

Lance :

I will be sending you numerous emails full of QUESTIONS!!!

Thanks RW

LOL