70 Formula 535

[Alponcho]

About a year ago I picked up a 70 Firebird Formula 400, 4-speed, gauges, non-A/C, carousel red, sandalwood interior. Cool car, fairly rust free, but NOM and rear end, and in rough condition, so I decided to use it as a platform for a build centered on an aftermarket aluminum Pontiac block that will displace 535ci, and a T56.

The car spent some time at a frame shop to make sure everything is straight and it has just come back from stripping and is in primer.

So far I've committed to the engine--most of the parts are in--it will be fuel injected. I also have suspension; DSE subframe set-up with single adjustable shocks, 4-link rear suspension, 9" rear end, tubs, etc.

Big ticket items I still need include transmission, brakes, and fuel tank.

My original idea was to maintain as much of the car's original vibe as possible. For example, I plan on going back to the original color scheme (or something close). The heads have been modified to look like "614" units that would have come on a RAIV car in 1970, and I have a custom intake that has been designed to fit under the stock Formula hood. I'm planning on painting the engine and heads the appropriate Pontiac Blue.

The trouble I'm running into now is deciding where to draw the line with originality--need to make decisions regarding many things: dash, gauges, wiring, interior, seats, trim, emblems, rear deck spoiler. Do I stick with original (most of which I already have) or go with newer/updated?

101026101027101028

[instro84]

i think it depends on what you plan to do with the car. with my 69 firebird i went with original color and engine but updated engine to fuel injection, i changed out the complete harness didnt want a bunch of electrical gremlins so yanked it all and went went painless, i kept the factory clusted but added gage to monitor vitals oil water and trans if i had to do over again i would have changed them all to newer as far as interior i changed front seats to some from a fiero which were moe comforatble and had them done to match facotry rears. i updated entire braking system to 4 wheel disc for safety and ran repop brake and fuel lines from front to rear. car was very reliable with the updates a made used it as a dialy driver till i sold it. hope this helps a little

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

What I like seeing, and it seems to be the norm anymore, is keeping much of the car's original personality as far as trim, spoiler, and major components like the door panels and dash, but update some things to make the car a little more up to date functionality-wise, like a new wiring harness with blade type fuses is much easier to deal with, better seats with bolsters and recline, and better gauges like the Dakota Digital VHX series that they do make for these Birds. Of course you can still go crazier and it would still be cool, but I think you can keep things simple and buy from a Classic Industries and have a way cool car. Personally I don't think the 70-73 Firebirds don't need much, as they were a beautiful car from new. I actually wanted to build one of those more than the 71 Camaro I ended up with, but the Birds seem so much harder to find anymore.

[4mul8ion]

As others have said, a lot depends on what you want to do with your car. I started with the engine and have been closing the capability gap of the rest of the car to the engine ever since. I could have saved so much time and money, if I had planned out the suspension and brakes first, then go get the engine. It sounds like the brake system is your next step. Ron Sutton gave some excellent advice on brakes for a 1970 T/A that I wish I could have had earlier. See https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101075-Front-Brake-Selection-Help!-1970-Trans-AM.

It sounds like you want to keep the original Pontiac look as much as possible and have modern performance. I went through this exact same thing when I was figuring out my car too because I wanted to keep the original flavor of the car but just update it to something that I think Pontiac might have done today. It was a bit easier for me, though, since I didn't have many of the original exterior or interior pieces and what I did have was in such poor shape it wasn't worth rescuing. I didn't like the fit or finish on some of the repop parts either so I went custom. Since you said you have all of the trim pieces and they're in good shape why not use them? Save the money and your time for your other big ticket items.

I always liked the interiors of the Birds, so I didn't want to stray too far from the factory. I wanted a more comfortable seat that would recline that I knew would fit right so I looked all over for an 81 T/A Recaro interior to put in but couldn't find anything reasonably priced or in repairable condition. Plus I wanted a bit more lateral support for Autocross. There's an enormous amount of information from a guy in Tacoma who specialized in Recaros. He posted it on this site. See https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/83440-Recaro-Resource-Guide. I wanted to keep the factory gauges as well, but they couldn't do what I wanted them to do plus I wanted to add additional read outs. I have a thing about mis-matching fonts or non-matching gauge pointers so I went aftermarket. I selected Speedhut because I liked one of their fonts / pointer combo. They also said they could make gauges with a similar factory font.

Nice car and sounds like a great project. Looking forward to updates. Hope this helps a little.

Kevin

[Nicks67GTO]

Aluminum Pontiac 535!!!..... WOW!! That is badass! Can you post up some pics?

I'm doing something similar to you. I want to keep as much 1967 in my GTO as I can without hurting function. I feel they are one of the most beautiful cars ever put on the road so I want to keep all the trim, badges, interior, body panels, dash, vinyl top etc feeling 1967. However i'm upgrading wheels, tires, brakes, transmission, rear end, engine, gauges etc. I was going to try to keep the stock seats but the pregnant wife was sore after a 350 mile cruise we did the other weekend so Im in the process of trying to score some 05' GTO seats. Once I make sure I like them ill probably have them recovered to look like a 67' GTO seat. I want a modernized function, daily driver capable GTO, with a retro feel. Keep the main pillars of the car and the feel will remain if that's your goal.

[Alponcho]

I plan to drive the car a lot, and once it's built, I don't want to feel the need to revisit anything. I have other cars to keep me occupied--I want the Forumla to be available to drive whenever and where ever I want.

Nick, I agree with you about 67 GTOs. I own one too, an HO 4-speed convertible stroked 462, HR roller, worked 670 heads, cliff built carb, but looks absolutely bone stock. It's reliable and a blast to drive, but with factory suspension, brakes, m20, 3.55 gears, etc., it's definitely not a touring car or something you want to carve corners with. I want to take the Formula much further in the performance realm.

Kevin, thanks for the links. I'm new to these Forums and pro-touring.

I have a factory stock 70 TA that I took for a long drive early this morning. I never realized how much I slide around in the seat…I'm thinking aftermarket seats are in my future.

[Nicks67GTO]

I plan to drive the car a lot, and once it's built, I don't want to feel the need to revisit anything. I have other cars to keep me occupied--I want the Forumla to be available to drive whenever and where ever I want.

Nick, I agree with you about 67 GTOs. I own one too, an HO 4-speed convertible stroked 462, HR roller, worked 670 heads, cliff built carb, but looks absolutely bone stock. It's reliable and a blast to drive, but with factory suspension, brakes, m20, 3.55 gears, etc., it's definitely not a touring car or something you want to carve corners with. I want to take the Formula much further in the performance realm.

Kevin, thanks for the links. I'm new to these Forums and pro-touring.

I have a factory stock 70 TA that I took for a long drive early this morning. I never realized how much I slide around in the seat…I'm thinking aftermarket seats are in my future.

Post up some shots of that 67! I will say this since you mentioned the handling of your 67'...I went from bone stock to an SC&C stage II suspension in my car with Ridetech HQ shocks and even with the current 15" wheels and 11" TRSD 4 wheel discs it handles and stops like a new car in comparison to the stock stuff. You could probably do that stuff and still look stock

[Later-A-body]

I have owned three of the '70-'73 Formula's, all 4 speed's. I love those cars. My vote is to stay with the factory styling and maybe add a factory rear spoiler. The factory gauge package these car came with are some of the best ever put in a factory dash. I am not a fan of Autometer or other gauges in place of the originals. My vote would be to send them to Redline Gaugeworks and have them rebuilt with new modern electronic guts. You can modify the speedometer with digital odometer readout if wanted. The gauges will appear original, but will be very reliable. I have had all my gauges in my Grand Am done by Redline, and I was very impressed with what they did. As for seats, that is a personal preference. I felt the same way as far as needing more lateral support and went to a more modern seat from an Acura. What are you thinking on wheels. You could go with the Year One 17" honeycombs. That would at least get you the factory look with modern rubber. I'm curious as to which EFI set up you are looking at. I had my 455 fuel injected prior to the LS7 swap. I will be very interested in following your build. Thanks.

[Alponcho]

Here you go Nick.

[Alponcho]

I have owned three of the '70-'73 Formula's, all 4 speed's. I love those cars. My vote is to stay with the factory styling and maybe add a factory rear spoiler. The factory gauge package these car came with are some of the best ever put in a factory dash. I am not a fan of Autometer or other gauges in place of the originals. My vote would be to send them to Redline Gaugeworks and have them rebuilt with new modern electronic guts. You can modify the speedometer with digital odometer readout if wanted. The gauges will appear original, but will be very reliable. I have had all my gauges in my Grand Am done by Redline, and I was very impressed with what they did. As for seats, that is a personal preference. I felt the same way as far as needing more lateral support and went to a more modern seat from an Acura. What are you thinking on wheels. You could go with the Year One 17" honeycombs. That would at least get you the factory look with modern rubber. I'm curious as to which EFI set up you are looking at. I had my 455 fuel injected prior to the LS7 swap. I will be very interested in following your build. Thanks.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I like the factory gauges a lot. I had the ones for my 70TA restored by Auto Instruments and they look and function perfectly. The ones for the Formula need complete restoration, but I hadn't though about upgrading with modern internals. What would be the advantage of this relative to restoring the factory internals?

For wheels I'm thinking Formula 43 Rad 14, probably gray center.

[Later-A-body]

As you probably already know, the original GM sensors are not available and the aftermarket oart store stuff doesn't always read correctly. At least with modern upgrades you get all matching components that are accurate.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Nick, I agree with you about 67 GTOs. I own one too, an HO 4-speed convertible stroked 462, HR roller, worked 670 heads, cliff built carb, but looks absolutely bone stock. It's reliable and a blast to drive, but with factory suspension, brakes, m20, 3.55 gears, etc., it's definitely not a touring car or something you want to carve corners with. I want to take the Formula much further in the performance realm.


Funny to hear others with the same sentiments on GTO's. I have a 66 GTO I'll be getting to sometime in the next 5 years, and I'm going to do a total resto on it. I have enough other cars to turn in, where I'm just going to do a frame off and just a set of Cragars and leave it as it was built in 66. I do think these cars stylewise are perfect and shouldn't be tampered with. It might get suspension mods someday, but I'd like to have a car where you get in, and it's the 60's all over again.

[Alponcho]

Two months have gone by and no visible progress….will be starting metal work soon though.

To be honest, I'm having a difficult time making decisions about different aspects of the build. Most recently, as an example, 've begun to second guess my choice of transmissions. Since the car was born with a stick, I thought I'd go with a T56. But I've been driving my 4-speed 70 TA a lot lately, and I'm starting to think it would be nice to have an automatic. What are my options at around 750 hp, and cost relative to a T56 set-up?

[andrewb70]

Two months have gone by and no visible progress….will be starting metal work soon though.

To be honest, I'm having a difficult time making decisions about different aspects of the build. Most recently, as an example, 've begun to second guess my choice of transmissions. Since the car was born with a stick, I thought I'd go with a T56. But I've been driving my 4-speed 70 TA a lot lately, and I'm starting to think it would be nice to have an automatic. What are my options at around 750 hp, and cost relative to a T56 set-up?

For me it is not just a matter of money. I enjoy the driving experience of a manual transmission. I like the feel and control. You just have to decide if your a manual type of guy or an auto guy.

There are various options for your power level. By all accounts a Tr6060 (t56 magnum) will handle that power. G-Force also offers their own T56 with 9310 internals that can handle over 1000HP.

Andrew

[Alponcho]

Decided to stick with my original plan to go with a T56. I tend to vacillate on these decisions the closer I get to actually having to make them.

In response to a question I received earlier, I'm inclined to go with Baer brakes, since they're here in town. I walked through their facility a while back and was impressed. However, after reading through the Ron Sutton thread above, I realize I have a lot to learn.

I also decided to go with aftermarket seats. No clue as to which ones work best or what type of seat belt/harness set up to go with.

and I thought this was going to be easier than a factory stock type of restoration…

attached photos of the DSE stuff I'll be using...

[Alponcho]

I planned to use DSE subframe connectors, but I'm not sure I want to cut up the floor to install them, and I'm also concerned that by welding them to the floor, repairing collision to the front clip be much more difficult and expensive. I'd be willing to live with a little less rigidity and ground clearance that I'd get with something like Hotchkis subframe connectors, but I'm not sure if they would mate up with the DSE subframe that I'll be using. Thoughts?

[cdoggy81]

If you are installing those DSE mini tubs in the above pic then why worry about cutting the floor for the sub frame connectors?

[Alponcho]

If you are installing those DSE mini tubs in the above pic then why worry about cutting the floor for the sub frame connectors?

Cutting the floor by itself isn't the issue. My concern is that once everything is welded in place, removing the subframe would require some major surgery. I mentioned the difficulty of repairing collision damage earlier. But I'm also a little nervous about not being able to change body mounts if I needed to. At the very least, it makes my choice of body mounts very important….any suggestions about what I should go with?

Related update. Tubs are in.

[Nicks67GTO]

Nice selection of parts!

My take on the body mounts....

Don't be scared of a good set of aluminum. I used the ABC aluminum body mounts with SC&C rubber isolaters and I don't have any real NVH issues at all in comparison to the 15 year old rubber bushings that were in there before. For the record they were not rotten when I pulled them either. I also don't have any sound proofing in, so if there was an issue it would probably be pretty clear cut. I think given what you're doing I would go with aluminum and see if you can get the little rubber idolaters from SC&C.

[tazzz25906112]

The DSE stuff will add a lot to the mix,,, however you can chose other frame connectors that will kinda work (again not as a good,, but will work)... This all said with a 535ci motor I think you're going to really want the DSE offering as that car will twist like crazy with that motor built effectively.. The Aluminum body bushing are pretty much a need to have issue here too... I use Sparco 505's in my cars and I find them very good and easy to install BTW... You may want to consider a blind 6 point cage in the car as That motor is going to put down some insane torque...

[Alponcho]

The DSE stuff will add a lot to the mix,,, however you can chose other frame connectors that will kinda work (again not as a good,, but will work)... This all said with a 535ci motor I think you're going to really want the DSE offering as that car will twist like crazy with that motor built effectively.. The Aluminum body bushing are pretty much a need to have issue here too... I use Sparco 505's in my cars and I find them very good and easy to install BTW... You may want to consider a blind 6 point cage in the car as That motor is going to put down some insane torque...

Thank you very much for the advice…I'll stick with the DSE SFCs and use solid mounts. This is my first PT build, so I'm working through the various decision points step by step.

Would a 4 point roll bar (something like what DSE offers with a removable cross brace) help enough with the twisting? It's obviously a compromise solution, but the car will be 95% street driven and I want to keep the back seats.

[icemanrd19]

you can install the subframe connectors and have them bolt to the subframe. You do not have to weld the connectors to the subframe. Im not.


http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=32552

[Alponcho]

you can install the subframe connectors and have them bolt to the subframe. You do not have to weld the connectors to the subframe. Im not.


http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=32552

Seems like a great solution, thanks!

[Doug1]

Not trying to hi-jack your thread so I'll just post this one quick post. I'm just in the last stages of my 535 build with the same DSE setup in the rear and a T56. Mine is in a late 70s 2nd gen Trans Am but I used a 74 full floor pan so the install will pretty much match what you are doing. Feel free to ask any questions.

The Quadra-Link is being installed at this moment. One side is done and the other is under way. I put in DSE tubs and subframe connectors early on in the build. Used DSE's Ford 9" rear as well.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/109515-Trans-Am-Pro-Touring-build-almost-done!?p=1087945#post1087945

[Alponcho]

Not trying to hi-jack your thread so I'll just post this one quick post. I'm just in the last stages of my 535 build with the same DSE setup in the rear and a T56. Mine is in a late 70s 2nd gen Trans Am but I used a 74 full floor pan so the install will pretty much match what you are doing. Feel free to ask any questions.

The Quadra-Link is being installed at this moment. One side is one and the other is under way. I put in DSE tubs and subframe connectors early on in the build. Used DSE's Ford 9" rear as well.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/109515-Trans-Am-Pro-Touring-build-almost-done!?p=1087945#post1087945

I just read through your thread…looking forward to seeing how your car progresses. It's good to see someone heading down more or less the same path ahead of me. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for you. I've been asking questions here, but given the number of responses, I guess the norm on this forum is to post questions in the appropriate tech section…either way, expect to hear from me. Thanks in advance for your help.

The work on the Quadra-Link is started. It's a little more involved than I had anticipated. Hopefully, the outcome will be worth it.

Once the Quadra-Link fabrication is done, the plan is to put the car on a cart and send it back to the blaster. It's sitting on a frame rack at the moment. The shop where I had it previously shot it with self-etch and then lacquer primer and then let it sit in the rain during monsoon season. The guy doing the body and fab work now wouldn't touch the car unless I agreed to have it redone. He's been in the restoration business a long time--very good reputation, but he hasn't done a pro-touring car, so we're working through issues together. It's been fun so far.

[Doug1]

Don't let me get started on painter issues... You would not believe some of the stuff I have dealt with in the last 3-4 years including one painter stealing one of my cars and having it crushed for drug money. It turned out he had several cars crushed at the same time so he got arrested, got out on bail a few weeks later and OD'd the very same day he made bail. That's the worst story I have but I have plenty of other's close behind. So I'm glad you have a reputable shop on yours. I finally found a good painter but it took a while, since most body shops aren't set up to do these sorts of cars from a business perspective. They take too much time and there is not enough profit unless they charge a small fortune for the work. Most are set up for insurance work and can't take in a long term project. Once you find a go to body guy, don't use anybody else! They are worth their weight in gold and are almost as rare as a Unicorn! Unlike the Unicorn, they actually do exist but in infinitesimally small numbers.

I had self etch on the last couple of cars I had blasted and had to end up having them re-blasted and going back with straight 2K epoxy primer. The self etch kept bleeding through the primer, even though both were made by the same company as part of a system. We even tried 2K primer as a last result and it still bled through. Unfortunately, I had several cars all blasted and primed at the same time so I also had to have them all blasted a second time and recoated. I threw away at least $1K just in primer on those cars. I'll doubt I will ever use self etch again. The blaster said he had used SEM self-etch on cars for many years with no issues but ended up having to redo several after mine. He doesn't use it anymore. Even the factory rep that came out was stumped. So by now, I have seen just about every way to get sideways in a project, mostly because I have personally experienced them. lol.

I too found that the Quadra-Link was more involved than I initially thought, and I had looked up every 2nd gen build thread I could with one and gone through the directions. Didn't look beyond my skillset so I was going to upgrade my welder and go to it. The good news for me was that after planning on doing it myself, the fabricator had a short break in his schedule and said he would fit it in since he could tell I wasn't that comfortable welding such critical parts. So I offered to go ahead and make all the cuts via the templates and tack the parts in and let him burn them in. He politely declined and said he would only do it if he made the cuts which turned out to be a good call. He is an excellent fabricator and so I figured he have it knocked in a day or so, since the car already had tubs and sub-frame connectors done. It turns out that the templates are close but not exact so on the second frame rail, he is making the cuts smaller than the templates and grinding to fit the close-outs. He had to add a little metal back on one edge and wasn't real happy about the template not being exact. This guy fabricated fire trucks for a living for many years and has always done race car chassis builds on the side so he is pretty exacting and knows his stuff. With fire trucks they have to be able to fabricate every part so he can work magic with metal. In hindsight it would not have been good if I had gotten under there and just hacked everything off according to the templates and then attempted to place the close-outs. He was smart enough to do one spot at a time all the way from start to finish. So I finally avoided at least ONE minor catastrophe in a build for a change. :-)

PM me when you run into a problem or have any questions and I'll be glad to help.

[Alponcho]

Tubs are in and work on the Quadra Link is under way. Should be done next week, and then off to the blaster again. As you can see in the photos, we decided to go with fresh sheet metal rather than trying to straighten out the collision damage to the quarters and tail panel. To my amazement, there was absolutely no hidden rust in the inner quarter structures, outer wheel houses, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Alponcho]

Should be finished with the Quadra Link stuff this week. Here are some photos of progress as of Friday. Not sure how far to go prettying things up. The original plan was not to go too far beyond what the car would have looked like had the factory installed these parts.

[Nicks67GTO]

Nice!

[Alponcho]

I need to decide what to do about a roll bar as soon as possible. The car will be street driven primarily, but with 750-800 ft lbs of torque and sticky 335s I've been told I'll need some sort of roll bar or cage to stiffen things up. I'm thinking about getting a DSE 4-point bar (since it's readily available and fits well) and welding in some really low door bars to make it an unobtrusive 6 point. Is this feasible? Are there better options? Will this limit my options for seats?

[tazzz25906112]

You can do a custom cage like we did on the WarPath and Cochise builds... I've attached a image for your review and as you can see we tucked the cage into (50/50) inner structure...
This allows for a blind cage when the interior is place in the car and address the seat issues you spoke about... Hope it helps...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/cage_zps96306acf-1.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/projectwarpath/media/Project%20WarPath/cage_zps96306acf.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

You can do a custom cage like we did on the WarPath and Cochise builds... I've attached a image for your review and as you can see we tucked the cage into (50/50) inner structure...
This allows for a blind cage when the interior is place in the car and address the seat issues you spoke about... Hope it helps...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/cage_zps96306acf-1.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/projectwarpath/media/Project%20WarPath/cage_zps96306acf.jpg.html)

That's pretty slick…I'd love to chat with you about this.

[tazzz25906112]

That's pretty slick…I'd love to chat with you about this.

np just drop me a note over at [email protected] or at 41 6-566-9660....

[Alponcho]

Moved on to the front of the car for a while…preliminary metal work and fitting doors, fenders, hood, bumper & valence. We're going to leave the gaps a hair wider than a normal restoration to accommodate some flex. I'm really happy with how things are looking…I'm especially happy the hood fit so well…being made out of fiberglass many have warped and cracked over the years…I was lucky to find a really nice one close to home.

Will weld in the main hoop and back bars of the cage before it leaves for the blaster…probably after the new year now.

I decided to keep the stainless decor moulding around the windows and the "Firebird" and "Formula 400" fender emblems, but will not be installing the rocker trim or wheel well moldings.

[Alponcho]

Progress on this project has been slow and steady. After Randy was satisfied with the fit of the hood, bumper, valence, fenders, and doors, he took it apart and sent it to the blaster. As you can see from the photos, the body is really clean.

110383110384110385110386

Body in epoxy.

110387

Front clip back together. More fitting and straightening.

110388

Quarter and tail fitting…she's starting to look like a car again.

110391

110392

[Motown 454]

Very Nice! it is definitely a nice clean car. You have plenty of room for some big meats back there now. What you have done already looks great they're doing a nice job.

[no go nova]

That body is better then when it came from the factory great work that shop is doing.

[Alponcho]

Thanks guys. Going for high end fit and finish, but trying to maintain factory vibe and identifiability as a Formula 400. This is why I'll be using the fender emblems and no spoiler. The latter has actually sparked a bit of controversy among my friends here locally. I think it will look good this way sitting low with the big tires…but I haven't seen a Firebird set up this way so I'm not absolutely sure.

[cdoggy81]

here is what comes to mind when I think firebird with big tires, sitting low & no spoiler:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Firebird-/251898598899?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3aa65395f3&item=251898598899

Your metal work is fantastic looking BTW!

[Alponcho]

The guy doing the body is meticulous. Here's a photo of his '69 GTO convertible, an honest to goodness RAIV 4-speed car. He just finished it.

111248

[tazzz25906112]

Beautiful work on that bird....

[Alponcho]

I can't believe it's been a year since I posted an update on my Firebird project. I slowed things down because we're knee deep in building a new home, and my time, attention, and resources have been pouring into that.

The car has been blocked and looks great. We'll install the subframe and weld in the SFC next week. Then I'll take the car to my friend's shop where well begin to mock everything up. The close ratio T56 Magnum arrived yesterday. I'll order the center section, axles and brakes later this week. Once it's a roller we'll take it to the chassis shop for some mods to the roll bar to stiffen things up a bit more.

I can't decide whether to stick to the original carousel red (hugger orange) or go with a more modern orange red color. The original color looks pretty good on the bumper.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/7020F20Block_zpshnh1jevf-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/70%20F%20Block_zpshnh1jevf.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/7020F20Block1_zpsqlpqoj3e-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/70%20F%20Block1_zpsqlpqoj3e.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/IMG_6420_zpsf9c2cqib-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_6420_zpsf9c2cqib.jpg.html)

[Mach1_Ron]

I like that Orange... Of course I'm slightly biased...

[Alponcho]

I've never seen carousel red side by side with calypso coral...wonder how they compare?

[1965gp]

I would go with the factory color. Seems like you have put in a lot of effort to look like the car could have come from the factory like this- high end metallic paint is going to give it a custom look.

[Alponcho]

I held off with the center section purchase because I can't decide on gear ratio…I think 3.50 is a nice compromise. The 535 will produce a ton of tq early and the curve will be very flat….

The pics I posted the other day were before the car was blocked. Here's some photos of the car after a about 60 hours of sanding.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/at20600_zpsypjsnb7h-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/at%20600_zpsypjsnb7h.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/block208020fr_zps5ofx0zhp-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/block%2080%20fr_zps5ofx0zhp.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/05/block20sl2080_zpsp8slnxm3-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/block%20sl%2080_zpsp8slnxm3.jpg.html)

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Looking good! It's getting to the fun part now!

What transmission are you running? The 71 Chevelle I built with a 454, I left the stock gearing in for awhile, and it was a great highway gear. I didn't realize till I checked later on, but it was a sub-3.00:1 gear ratio, 2.7:1 maybe! Yet it was still a blast, and a nice highway car. Torque goes a LONG way in making highway gears doable. I'd say a 535 would make 3.50's fun still.

[Alponcho]

Thanks Josh. Going with close ratio T56 Magnum. Considered long ratio, but I thought first gear would be unusable.

Question, we're assembling the new subframe and I'm wondering if I can go ahead and weld the subframe connectors (DSE) to the subframe now or should I wait until until the engine and transmission are in the car? It's on the rack and all squared up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_0587_zpsx1aukvk9-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_0587_zpsx1aukvk9.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

The front suspension went together quickly. I bought the kit before the Torrington bearings were standard, but DSE was kind enough to send me some. The only thing that surprised me is that the upper ball joint is secured by a Nylock nut rather than a castle nut and cotter pin...there are no cotter pin holes in the ball joint studs so I'm assuming this is correct.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_1980_zpsqe3wktif-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_1980_zpsqe3wktif.jpg.html)

[cdoggy81]

You can use a top lock if concerned about the nylock. Just make sure it is grade c or better.


https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/1137264?term=3%2F8+top+lock+nut+grade+c

[manicmechanic]

Yes Nylock nuts are pretty much the standard now, and not reusable once removed. Takes away the possible failure of the hole thru the studs.

[Goosesdad]

[QUOTE=Alponcho;1191888]The front suspension went together quickly. I bought the kit before the Torrington bearings were standard, but DSE was kind enough to send me some. The only thing that surprised me is that the upper ball joint is secured by a Nylock nut rather than a castle nut and cotter pin...there are no cotter pin holes in the ball joint studs so I'm assuming this is correct.

Entire build ooks awesome!!! Regarding your comment on the Torrington bearing.... how do I determine if mine recent purchase (earlier this year) included these? Thanks!!

[Alponcho]

[QUOTE=Alponcho;1191888]The front suspension went together quickly. I bought the kit before the Torrington bearings were standard, but DSE was kind enough to send me some. The only thing that surprised me is that the upper ball joint is secured by a Nylock nut rather than a castle nut and cotter pin...there are no cotter pin holes in the ball joint studs so I'm assuming this is correct.

Entire build ooks awesome!!! Regarding your comment on the Torrington bearing.... how do I determine if mine recent purchase (earlier this year) included these? Thanks!!

Thanks! I bought mine unassembled so I noticed when I inventoried the small bags of parts. If you bought yours assembled, just look under the coil spring.

[Alponcho]

My friend and I hauled the car to his garage where we'll mock everything up. We'll assemble the engine here as well. It didn't occur to me that the factory Pontiac rally wheels and lug nuts wouldn't fit on the car...D'oh! We found a couple space saver wheels that we reversed then had to go the local ACE hardware store for 12mm 1.5 pitch nuts. Guess I'll be ordering wheels and tires sooner than I thought. Thinking about GA3s with brushed lip and titanium (or maybe a shade or two lighter) center.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/06/IMG_2020_zpshl3sp3xn-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2020_zpshl3sp3xn.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

Mated the T56 to a block my friend had lying around and installed it in the car. Needed some room in the tunnel and had to "adjust" the floor a little so that the Bowler crossmember would fit. Turned out well I think. I was worried that the block would end to being too close to the firewall, but it looks like there will be plenty of room.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_2402_zpsuaxg4neu-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2402_zpsuaxg4neu.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_2413_zpsa7chet5u-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2413_zpsa7chet5u.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_2415_zps2vn4s9la-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2415_zps2vn4s9la.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_2426_zpsqla5733m-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2426_zpsqla5733m.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/07/IMG_2427_zpsrnznejjd-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_2427_zpsrnznejjd.jpg.html)

[Turbo.trex]

Man this car has come along really nice keep up the good work ..

[Alponcho]

Things have slowed down a bit over the last couple months.

I bought a center section from Strange, but was sent axles that were too short. I remeasured, and they sent me new ones, which I thought were closer to the correct lengths, so I had the bearings pressed on, but now the offsets are different by almost .25", and with the bearing in the axle housings the brake offsets are less than the 2.5" I asked for. Any thoughts on what happened?

I'm about ready to give up trying to figure this out myself. I may just bring the whole assembly to the differential shop and let them set it up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/IMG_349320copy_zpsx8jn5u2e-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_3493%20copy_zpsx8jn5u2e.jpg.html)

One of the front shocks started leaking fluid. So now I have to take it apart and send it back to DSE to have it checked out and rebuilt. Anyone have this problem with one of their JRi shocks?

I bought the Pypes exhaust for the DSE equipped 2nd gen cars. Even if it needs tweaking, I think it's better than starting from scratch. We'll see.

I bought an Ididit column. Had them powder coat it. It took forever to get here, I think I was told the ignition switch was on back order...but it's a really nice looking unit.

I need to order my fuel tank from Rick's. He was a huge help back in the fall when I was looking into it. -- I'm going with the ZL1 pump assembly and Vaporworx set-up to work with the Fast EZ EFI I'll be using.

What's really been slowing me down is my other project. Should be done in about 3 months. The family is getting excited about moving in. I'm hoping to be able to finish the Formula in the detached garage shop.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/IMG_3583_zpsgjabfk9x-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_3583_zpsgjabfk9x.jpg.html)

[Doug1]

I used the Pypes system for DSE cars on mine and am running a 535. It fit fairly well but might yet need a little tweaking on one or two spots. Still well worth the money just to get it to the point that it is already. I'm hoping to get the car done by spring but am always waiting on someone to send me parts. It's close now...

[anguilla1980]

Looking great! I wish I could afford one of those blocks!

[Ripper]

beautiful project! Love it!

No water channels in that block?

[Alponcho]

Thanks for the compliments. IA II blocks come dry decked. This is so you can drill the deck to match the water passages in whatever head you'll be using. This is an iron block that had some problems with the casting, we're just using it for mock up. I have aluminum block from a recent run for this car...the casting looks much much nicer than the iron block. The original plan was to paint it Pontiac metallic engine blue, but it's so pretty I was thinking of shooting it in clear.

[Alponcho]

I used the Pypes system for DSE cars on mine and am running a 535. It fit fairly well but might yet need a little tweaking on one or two spots. Still well worth the money just to get it to the point that it is already. I'm hoping to get the car done by spring but am always waiting on someone to send me parts. It's close now...

Have you updated your thread lately? I'm curious to see how yours is turning out. Would love to see pics of engine bay, exhaust, rear end, fuel tank, etc., installed...also wondering what you've done to mitigate issues with the torque of that 535...yours is a t-top car IIRC?

[Hemi8]

Finally, a cool car without the cookie-cutter LS1, love those Pontiac engines. If I see one more LS engine swap I'm going to hurl.

Mike

[Zee]

finally, a cool car without the cookie-cutter ls1, love those pontiac engines. If i see one more ls engine swap i'm going to hurl.

Mike

x 2

[Alponcho]

Finally, a cool car without the cookie-cutter LS1, love those Pontiac engines. If I see one more LS engine swap I'm going to hurl.

Mike

Thanks Mike (and Zee)...although I understand why folks do the LS swap, it's always a disappointment to see one between the fenders of a classic Pontiac. One of the goals of the project is to show that an aluminum Pontiac engine can work every bit as well with respect to performance and reliability as a modern LS in a pro-touring type of application. Once things are sorted out it can serve as a template for others who might be considering an LS swap. The Pontiac route is be a bit more expensive for sure, but the difference isn't prohibitive.

[67SSDan]

This thing is bad ass! I also certainly understand the "holy crap it's been a year since I've posted" thing. Not everyone finishes their car in six months. LOL

[Doug1]

Have you updated your thread lately? I'm curious to see how yours is turning out. Would love to see pics of engine bay, exhaust, rear end, fuel tank, etc., installed...also wondering what you've done to mitigate issues with the torque of that 535...yours is a t-top car IIRC?

You are correct. I'll see if I can get some updates posted. I installed DSE subframe connectors as part of a full new floor pan install. I also added a weld in hoop in the rear and G-Braces under the hood. I think the frame is pretty stiff at this point. i may switch to the AME front subframe if I detect any significant deflection but tests thus far show it is stout.

As soon as I get the custom pulley system from Luhn Performance, it will move quickly from there. I have the exhaust in, but am doing the electrical and plumbing now. That pulley system was critical because I went with a polished motor and used the polished RARE timing cover that takes the SBC water pump. I think it will be here in the next week or so. Fingers crossed :-)

[Doug1]

Just updated it. Here's the link..

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/109515-Trans-Am-Pro-Touring-build-almost-done!

[TerryD]

Thanks Mike (and Zee)...although I understand why folks do the LS swap, it's always a disappointment to see one between the fenders of a classic Pontiac. One of the goals of the project is to show that an aluminum Pontiac engine can work every bit as well with respect to performance and reliability as a modern LS in a pro-touring type of application. Once things are sorted out it can serve as a template for others who might be considering an LS swap. The Pontiac route is be a bit more expensive for sure, but the difference isn't prohibitive.

Currently building a '73 TA along a similar build plan to yours. I have an aluminum 505 Poncho going in with a full Pro-touring suspension from DSE, Baer, etc. really digging your build, part of the inspiration that got me going on my build!

[Alponcho]

Just updated it. Here's the link..

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/109515-Trans-Am-Pro-Touring-build-almost-done!

Thanks....it looks fantastic!

[Alponcho]

Finally lost my patience and dropped off the 9" at the differential shop...man that thing is heavy with the center section installed.

Also dropped off a Pontiac 8.2 rear end from a 65 GTO convertible...wouldn't have lived much longer with freshly rebuilt and stroked 400, ported heads, etc., and the 2.56 gears were a clutch and fun killer.

[JohnJ@RideTech]

Nice build. Cant wait for some updated photos. It looks like its coming along great.

[Alponcho]

Finally got the axle situation straightened out. Turned out to be a combination of things. Strange built the axles wth different sized spacers for some reason, and one axle was an 1/8" too long. It was bottoming out on the lip at the end of the center section splines.

[Alponcho]

...and another year rolls by! I underestimated the amount of time and money i would need to finish the new house, move, etc. We moved in last June and am finally at the point where I can pick up where I left off last year. Just reinstalled the replacement shock that DSE sent, and installed the quadralink and 9” so at least we can roll the car around now.

The only change in the project is that I’m considering a 4.65” stroke crank instead of 4.5”. Not much difference in price for 553ci rather than 535. Should make ridiculous torque...

[slimjim]

Welcome back, let me update you on 2017..Photobucket decided they wanted to be huge a**holes and most threads lost their pictures, it seems the first half of yours are ok.
I still look forward to seeing more of yours in the future, it's the best year.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

...and another year rolls by! I underestimated the amount of time and money i would need to finish the new house, move, etc. We moved in last June and am finally at the point where I can pick up where I left off last year.

I hear you on that. Just beginning that phase personally... the last few months have been prepping for buying a new house, now I've put money down on a new house as of last Sunday, so the next 9+ months will be devoted to finishing a 68 Camaro I'm building for an uncle, then getting my house ready to sell and moving! 2018 will not be a good year for my Firebird!

[72blackbird]

Al,
THANK YOU for keeping your 70 Formula PONTIAC POWERED and not drinking the LS Kool-Aid.

Geno

[Alponcho]

I was pretty disappointed to learn about the photobucket deal. Kind of discouraged me from continuing with the thread, but I guess I'll press on with thumbnails. Here's a test using a photo of our new home from my brother in law's drone.

148723

[Alponcho]

I decided to get this project moving again. I think the last thing I did was reinstall the rear end after getting the axles sorted out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/05/IMG_5498_zpswzvxud5t-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_5498_zpswzvxud5t.jpg.html)

I sat down yesterday and added up all expenses since I bought the car in April 2013. I was shocked to see how much I spent over the past 5 years. I tried to convince myself it wasn't so bad. After all, the metal and bodywork are done, the DSE pieces, rear end, and transmission are all in place. And I have the new block, heads, FI system, distributor, ignition, exhaust, intake, steering column and misc pieces all on a pallet. I felt good about it until this morning. I made a list of what I still needed and realized I'm only about 60% there! Paint, seats and interior, wheels & tires, brakes, fuel system, vintage air, wiring, gauges, glass, engine accessories, and so on, make up the remaining 40%.

I'm going to order fuel tank next week. After I have that in place, I'll install the exhaust, steering, hydraulic clutch, and starter so that I can have the headers made. After that, it goes to the chassis shop for some roll bar mods, and then back to Randy's for paint.

I'll do the assembly in my detached shop, which is just about as finished as it's going to be.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/05/IMG_6016_zps7xcse50o-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_6016_zps7xcse50o.jpg.html)

[Jeff70]

UMMM... sir you have a soccer field on your backyard! I suspect your in AZ?


House looks amazing.

[Alponcho]

Thank you. Yes, AZ. We installed the field (about 1/4 acre) because there really isn't anywhere in our neighborhood for the kids to run around.

[Alponcho]

I know I'm looking way ahead, but thinking about what to do about gauges.

Option 1: Factory woodgrain dash bezel with factory gauges. I really like the look of the factory gauges (160mph, 8k), but they need to be restored. I used AutoInstruments.com last time I did this. They turned out great, but I believe it cost right around 1k. Although the dash bezel would be correct for the car, I'm not sure a woodgrain dash would look quite right in a build like this.

Option 2: Use a factory Trans Am dash bezel (machine turned) and factory gauges. I suspect the dash bezel would look more at home in the build, but I'd still have to pony up to get the factory gauges restored.

Option 3: Factory woodgrain dash bezel with aftermarket gauges. Perhaps there are some advantages to having modern gauges, and the cost would be a wash in the end. The concept of a GPS speedo appeals to me. But I have no idea of where to start with something like this. I don't even know if aftermarket gauges go in the factory pods and mount like the originals, or if they attach to the back of the bezel somehow. And then there's the signal indicators, wiring, etc.

Option 4: Trans Am dash bezel with aftermarket gauges. This would give me the most updated look.

What to do?

[carbuff]

Option 4, although I am admittedly biased. I used Speedhut's 4.5" speedo and tach and their small other gauges from the Revolution line. I've been happy with them.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/05/Jidf4sn-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/05/TDEnaTd-1.jpg

[Alponcho]

Option 4, although I am admittedly biased. I used Speedhut's 4.5" speedo and tach and their small other gauges from the Revolution line. I've been happy with them.



I like what you did with your dash. Very nice interior. So many different directions one can take.

[Alponcho]

Finally called Rick's and ordered the fuel tank. It will be set up with ZL-1 pump, corner pickups, Vaporworx, etc. It will also be wired to work with the Fast EZ EFI 2.0 I have, which uses a negative trigger.

Received the T56 tunnel cover from Speedtech yesterday. Thought about starting from scratch on this, but I think the cover provides a good starting point, and should save a few hours of labor. The main piece looks exactly like the 67-69 part--hope I received the right one. There is an end cap for the back end, maybe that's the difference?

I also ordered a fuel pump trunk access panel from DSE. I believe it's cost effective given the time it would take to make something similar.

Am now doing research on header material. Not sure whether I should go with stainless or mild steel with some sort of ceramic coating.

[PonchoJohn]

Something else to consider....
https://www.holley.com/products/ls_power/ls_swap_systems/1970-81_gm_f-body_ls_swap_components/parts/71223008HKR

[PonchoJohn]

It's for an LS/T56 swap, but I bet the T56 ends up pretty close to where it would when attached to a Poncho V8-- besides, it look like there's a fair amount of room in the porch/cover.

[Alponcho]

Here's the speed tech cover.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/IMG_601720copy_zpsyvxrvbsn-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_6017%20copy_zpsyvxrvbsn.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

Need to order my brakes. The plan all along has been Baer 6P 14" front & 14" rear with park brake & hydroboost (Hydrotech), but after reading through threads in the brake forum, I feel like my decision making on this was way too simple...don't want to make a mistake.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Need to order my brakes. The plan all along has been Baer 6P 14" front & 14" rear with park brake & hydroboost (Hydrotech), but after reading through threads in the brake forum, I feel like my decision making on this was way too simple...don't want to make a mistake.

Curious what you end up with. I'll be getting brakes later this year after my car spending freeze ends and I'm in my new house... and I have some spare $$$$ to buy some brakes.

[Alponcho]

Curious what you end up with. I'll be getting brakes later this year after my car spending freeze ends and I'm in my new house... and I have some spare $$$$ to buy some brakes.

My car spending freeze lasted about a year longer than I anticipated. There were so many things towards the end of the project we didn't plan and budget sufficiently for...A/V stuff, automated blinds, glass shower doors & hardware, mirrors, pavers driveway & walkways, pool extras and decking, BBQ area, perimeter fencing, landscaping, irrigation, outdoor lighting, curbing for the field, sod, compressor lines in the detached garage...it all added up.

[wick]

As far as gauges and dash is concerned, have you looked at what Year One has to offer? The built a few Bandit cars with a nice looking gauge set up. A little bit of factory feel but updated. The door panels look good as well.

[NOT A TA]

The dash panel in the bandit cars Year one made I saw didn't include a finished edge on the panel that makes them look home made and unfinished. They look like carbuffs mock up pic above instead of the nice finished look like his installed pic with the aluminum trim. Whoever designed the 2nd gen Firebird dash put a lot of thought into it and did a really nice job. It's very difficult to improve on the layout. I'll post a couple pics below and here's a link to a build thread on one of the dash panels I've done. Might give you ideas even though these were done 8-12 years ago now. http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=31560.0

I've tried working with the various light (early) and darker (later 2nd gen) wood grain dash panels but the wood grain gives them a "dated" look from the 70's that just looks kinda funny to me in a car with modern components in the interior. So I haven't used them in anything but (non TA) restorations. I actually had a wood Grant wheel to go with the wood dash panel in my own car for 10-15 years up till maybe '05.

I have the Baer 14" with 6P front and rear installed (untested). The rear 14's are kinda overkill for a street car as you won't need the heat dissipation advantage unless you're on track. Mine is a manual set up with twin master cylinders so no experience with Hydroboosting them. You'll need at least 18" wheels and be very careful about valve stem placement.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/FirebirdTAdashbuild243-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/SEMA%20thrash%20at%20Fletchers/FirebirdTAdashbuild243.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/The14Cardash004-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/The14Cardash004.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/08/NOTATAsteadyatspeed-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Firebird/NOTATAsteadyatspeed.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

The dash panel in the bandit cars Year one made I saw didn't include a finished edge on the panel that makes them look home made and unfinished. They look like carbuffs mock up pic above instead of the nice finished look like his installed pic with the aluminum trim. Whoever designed the 2nd gen Firebird dash put a lot of thought into it and did a really nice job. It's very difficult to improve on the layout. I'll post a couple pics below and here's a link to a build thread on one of the dash panels I've done. Might give you ideas even though these were done 8-12 years ago now. http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=31560.0

I've tried working with the various light (early) and darker (later 2nd gen) wood grain dash panels but the wood grain gives them a "dated" look from the 70's that just looks kinda funny to me in a car with modern components in the interior. So I haven't used them in anything but (non TA) restorations. I actually had a wood Grant wheel to go with the wood dash panel in my own car for 10-15 years up till maybe '05.

I have the Baer 14" with 6P front and rear installed (untested). The rear 14's are kinda overkill for a street car as you won't need the heat dissipation advantage unless you're on track. Mine is a manual set up with twin master cylinders so no experience with Hydroboosting them. You'll need at least 18" wheels and be very careful about valve stem placement.

The dash panel you made looks terrific. Really like the carbon fiber look. However, I decided to use a really nice engine turned dash bezel I picked up recently. It's in great shape and it looks right in a Pontiac. The only negative is that it's from a later TA and has the radial tuned suspension emblem. I've only done restorations and so I'm used to being a stickler for correctness, but as I make more progress, I'm sure I'll get over it. I think I'll used Speedhut gauges. They should fit well and are customizable so I can try to mimic factory colors. I'll go with GPS speedo with fuel level, tach, battery, oil pressure and engine temp. I think I'll set up the dash panel like an A/C car, with the two holes on the right reserved for vents (I'm going to use Vintage Air). I plan on skipping the vents under the steering wheel and glove box.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/42311086111_ba4f903cc9_z_zps8narqjzk-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/42311086111_ba4f903cc9_z_zps8narqjzk.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/27442203907_3b4ed7705e_z_zpsttkmiaic-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/27442203907_3b4ed7705e_z_zpsttkmiaic.jpg.html)

With respect to brakes, I'd definitely consider manual...would be simpler and less expensive. Just don't know if I would regret it given that the majority of time will be street/highway. What drove your choice?

My wheel of choice right now is 18" Forgeline GA3.

One more thing, why do I need to be very careful about valve stem placement?

[Alponcho]

Did some traveling with the family in July, so not much progress. Tank showed up on Friday so maybe next week we'll install it, along with the exhaust and everything else we'll need to get the headers made.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/08/IMG_6936201_zpsu1by4rwp-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_6936%201_zpsu1by4rwp.jpg.html)

Also very close to ordering brakes, wheels & tires. Am thinking Baer 6p 14", Forgeline GA3 (titanium or satin gunmetal centers, brushed outer), Rival S. Open to suggestions for alternatives that are less expensive. Otherwise, I'm hoping vendors have better pricing than what I see online if I buy direct!

[Rebob]

Nice place out there, u off of Pima ? Looks like pinnacle peak behind ya. Did a lot of dirt bikin out that way.

[Alponcho]

Nice place out there, u off of Pima ? Looks like pinnacle peak behind ya. Did a lot of dirt bikin out that way.

Thank you. Good eye...just to the west of pinnacle peak. It's an area of 5 acre lots between Jomax and Dynamite, all on dirt roads...for now. City wants to pave on the two main roads they control to mitigate dust. I believe 2 or 3 property owners (of the 30 or so in here) are holding it up.

[southernfriedcj]

I love this project! I was hoping to see the car completed after I read the first page. I jumped to the last page to see the finished car. :ripped:

I can't wait to see it done.

[Alponcho]

I love this project! I was hoping to see the car completed after I read the first page. I jumped to the last page to see the finished car. :ripped:

I can't wait to see it done.

Sorry to disappoint, but I had no intention of stringing this project along for 4 years now. I really do hope to finish it in the upcoming year.

[Alponcho]

Worked on the car a bit today.

First thing I noticed was fluid dripping from the same front shock I had fixed a few months ago. Can't tell where it's leaking. Back to DSE on Monday. Hopefully they'll send me a new ball joint boot, new nylock nuts for the shocks and sway bar coupler, and the castle nut for the ball joint (which I lost).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7057_zps7npt1v7w-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7057_zps7npt1v7w.jpg.html)

Tried to install the steering column to get ready for the header guy, but I ran into a problem. There is no way to get inside the subframe and DSE engine mount to tighten the set screw on the u-joint connected to the steering rack. I'm wondering if this is unique to the Pontiac engine mount. Also wondering how I'm going to deal with this issue. Has anyone run into this?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7054_zpsnx9wqrnb-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7054_zpsnx9wqrnb.jpg.html)

Because the front end of the car is at the body shop, we decided to mock it up with iron block and iron heads (Pontiac folks might wan to take a close look) and whatever else we can find that will be heavy.

Installed the original seats to get an idea where I should have the cross bar welded. I know I should be doing this up with the seats I'll be using, but with brakes, wheels and tires on the horizon, I need to wait. The bar can't be any higher than the door opening, and I know the Recaros won't sit lower than these seats, so it looks like I'll be good to install it a couple inches below where it bends.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7036_zps29kqw6co-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7036_zps29kqw6co.jpg.html)

I thought we cut too much out of the tunnel, so I was relieved to see that the Speedtech cover will fit in place perfectly. This will save my body guy a few hours.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7039_zpswi7trff2-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7039_zpswi7trff2.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

Installed the Pypes exhaust. It was tight in a few areas, and will need a little tweaking at final assembly, but it's close enough to where it needs to be to get headers made. I will say that install would have been a lot easier had the corners of the tank had been cut 2 or three inches deeper.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7186_zpsfsrjwgfl-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7186_zpsfsrjwgfl.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7184_zpswiulcts8-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7184_zpswiulcts8.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7183_zpsjbyhbytw-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7183_zpsjbyhbytw.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7189_zpslhs9yjux-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7189_zpslhs9yjux.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7188_zpsslzees0y-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7188_zpsslzees0y.jpg.html)

[jack67rs]

Nice work, look forward to see this around Scottsdale. Nice house too!

[Alponcho]

Thank you! Hopefully the car will be done this spring.

[Alponcho]

Installed new steering u-joints (two stainless singles, one of which is anti-vibration) and a big GM starter. The other side of the engine is pretty open...I just ran some lines in case I decide to use an external filter. So with this stuff done, and the exhaust in place, I'm about ready for a visit from the header guy. Am I forgetting anything?

It's also time to decide what material to use: stainless or mild steel with ceramic coating (jet hot or something similar)?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7181_zpssjji7fmo-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7181_zpssjji7fmo.jpg.html)

[ULTM8Z]

you're going to love that steering shaft. so much better than the old rag joint....

[badazz81z28]

Pic 5 with the tube on the panhard bar has me incredibly confused. Mine was like that too, but it’s lowered and wouldn’t even fit. Can Pypes really possibly done that purposely? I wonder why those pipes are not higher over the axle...I hit up Pypes and still waiting on a response.

[Alponcho]

That photo is kind of deceiving. Here's another that shows the amount of space between the pipes and the panhard bar. The closest I come to making contact with anything is with the strap for the tank on the passenger side--I have about .125 there, and between the bracket on which the panhard bar is attached on the passenger side and the tank in that same area--but even there I have about .25". I think with some relatively minor tweaks it's going to work on my car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7191_zpsv2ng33r0-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7191_zpsv2ng33r0.jpg.html)

Having said this, there are improvements that Pypes could make. A lot of the issues could be resolved by going with 2.5" behind the mufflers...wouldn't lose one bit of power anywhere.

[Alponcho]

Needed to buy a car for my daughter this week, so did not have any time to work on the Formula. Wanted to put full weight on the suspension and roll the car around, but the shock isn't back from DSE, so couldn't have done much anyways.

Don't think I posted this before, but here are the two intakes I'm considering. The Northwind is over an inch shorter than a Victor and was designed to fit under a stock hood, but not sure it's going to work with the Formula hood--it's really tight. So I may need to use the inexpensive Shootout/Hurricane piece instead. Both were tested on a combo like I have planned and surprisingly the Shootout/Hurricane did not give up much to the Northwind. With a little more work, I'm told it can get even closer. My friend has an aluminum 505 in his 66 GTO topped with this intake and the EZ 2.0 and I was very impressed with how the engine performed...super snappy and pulled forever.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7116201_zpsgukyvvsq-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7116%201_zpsgukyvvsq.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/09/IMG_7117201_zpsjbq0rifj-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7117%201_zpsjbq0rifj.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

Will be pulling the trigger on wheels soon and need to finalize my choice.

I can't believe how many choices Forgeline has...the decision is killing me. I'm down to either GA3s or DE3Cs with either brushed or satin black hoops with satin gunmetal centers.

Black hoops would make it look like I have more tire, which I like on older cars, but don't know if the step on the GA3s would give me too much. Also, I live on a dirt road so the black might not be smart.

[Alponcho]

We thought it would be a good idea to install an oil pan to make sure there would be no clearance issues with the headers. To our surprise, it hit the rack.

Not sure I mentioned this before, but to line things up originally, we needed a .25" spacer between the passenger side DSE engine mount bracket and the engine mount. I thought it might be a problem with the cheap mounts I was using, so I switched them out for the poly ones that Butler sells. This changed nothing. But now that the oil pan is installed, it appears that we need .25" spacers on both sides for things to work. Wondering if anyone else has had to deal with something similar with these DSE engine mount brackets? It's easy enough to make .25" spacer plates to go between the brackets and the mounts, but I'm concerned that the additional height will cascade into other issues I'll have to deal with later.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/10/IMG_7292_zpsztmugkcr-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7292_zpsztmugkcr.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/10/IMG_7288_zps289bqk6o-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7288_zps289bqk6o.jpg.html)

[egoman]

Modify the oil pan? Not sure how Pontiacs work but it looks like an easy solution.

[Alponcho]

Wish it was that simple. The crank swings directly over the spot on the pan where I need to adjust it to clear the rack.

[egoman]

OK, it looked like it was in front of the block surface. Simple solutions are the hardest to come by.

[Alponcho]

Will be pulling the trigger on wheels soon and need to finalize my choice.

I can't believe how many choices Forgeline has...the decision is killing me. I'm down to either GA3s or DE3Cs with either brushed or satin black hoops with satin gunmetal centers.

Black hoops would make it look like I have more tire, which I like on older cars, but don't know if the step on the GA3s would give me too much. Also, I live on a dirt road so the black might not be smart.

I feel like I've looked at a million pics and still can't decide

I'm now thinking I may need to go with polished outers to tie in the chrome and polished stainless trim that I'm leaving on the car. Still thinking satin gunmetal centers, but the transparent smoke finish looks cool too. Also thinking I may go with GA3C which I like because the width of the polished lip will be minimized. My 14 year old son and all his buddies insist I should go with all black...I just think that would be too much contrast and wouldn't tie in well with the bright trim on the car...what do I know...

[67SSDan]

My 14 year old son and all his buddies insist I should go with all black...I just think that would be too much contrast and wouldn't tie in well with the bright trim on the car...what do I know...

Haha, never take style advice from a 14 year old kid. ;)

Seriously though, all these ideas sound good to me except the all black. I still for the life of me can't figure out why people like black wheels so much. That's a lot of money to just have it all disappear into what looks like a black hole in your wheel well. Let those dudes pop!

Dan

[carbuff]

Perhaps I'm biased, but I prefer the polished lip. That said, I debated hard about a 1-piece wheel from Forgeline rather than the 3-piece GA3 which I ended up with. If I ever change up the look of the car, I would change to a 1-piece from them...

Mine are a satin gunmetal finish. I'm not sure what color your car will be (didn't fully reread the thread), and that might influence the choice. But even with a 1-piece, I wouldn't do an all-black wheel. It just gets lost inside of the tire, especially in pictures.

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[Smitty454]

Perhaps I'm biased, but I prefer the polished lip. That said, I debated hard about a 1-piece wheel from Forgeline rather than the 3-piece GA3 which I ended up with. If I ever change up the look of the car, I would change to a 1-piece from them...

Mine are a satin gunmetal finish. I'm not sure what color your car will be (didn't fully reread the thread), and that might influence the choice. But even with a 1-piece, I wouldn't do an all-black wheel. It just gets lost inside of the tire, especially in pictures.

157366

Damn thats sexy...

[Alponcho]

Your car looks amazing, Bryan. I'd be thrilled if mine turned out as nice. My plan is to paint the car the original color, Carousel Red.

I'm curious, what is it about the 1 piece wheel that you prefer, and what changes to your car would you make to go along with the 1 piece?

[carbuff]

It's just an appearance thing. The 3-piece with the polished lip has a somewhat classic look to it, and you really can't go wrong with it. But something about the 1-piece feels a bit more modern to me, and it just appeals to me in that way.

A similar car which comes to mind is Brian Finch's 2nd gen Camaro. If you aren't familiar with it, Google it and you'll see pictures of his latest setup which is a 1-piece Forgeline design. I also like the GS1R and the GA1R and it's variants (including the centerlock design). But geesh the 1-piece designs get pricey fast!

[Alponcho]

It's just an appearance thing. The 3-piece with the polished lip has a somewhat classic look to it, and you really can't go wrong with it. But something about the 1-piece feels a bit more modern to me, and it just appeals to me in that way.

A similar car which comes to mind is Brian Finch's 2nd gen Camaro. If you aren't familiar with it, Google it and you'll see pictures of his latest setup which is a 1-piece Forgeline design. I also like the GS1R and the GA1R and it's variants (including the centerlock design). But geesh the 1-piece designs get pricey fast!

I hadn't considered 1-piece wheels before--I thought they're more for modern cars. But there's a black '69 Mustang with GA1Rs (in transparent smoke) that looks awesome. Now I'm really liking that wheel and also the variant with the open lug cap.

I would love to see some photos of a 2nd gen car with 1-piece wheels like the GA1R...I could only find photos of Brian Finch's car with GT3Cs.

[Alponcho]

I understand that DSE recommends 5.5" back space for the rear wheels, but I decided to double check with the Wheel Works tool I borrowed from MCB. It looks to me like 5.75 might work a little better with respect to the quarter lip. But wondering if I'm too close to rubbing anywhere on the inside? Worst case is that I'll need .25" spacers. Thoughts?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7443_zpsxrpijbuk-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7443_zpsxrpijbuk.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7441_zpsn2eyqeqn-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7441_zpsn2eyqeqn.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7433_zpstgiicpnl-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7433_zpstgiicpnl.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7432_zps9jkyrvse-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7432_zps9jkyrvse.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7430_zpslqdyi5n3-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7430_zpslqdyi5n3.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7416_zpsz2jqjvna-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7416_zpsz2jqjvna.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7418_zpscrinsmhu-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7418_zpscrinsmhu.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/IMG_7414_zpsojaud2gb-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/IMG_7414_zpsojaud2gb.jpg.html)

[CSG]

Looks like it will rub going in driveways, etc. I'd still go with that and spacers though.

[Alponcho]

I'm hoping more of you will chime in about the back space issue before I pull the trigger.

It's now a toss up between Forgeline's GA3C or GA1R. I really like the look of the GA1R, but not sure how a one piece wheel would look on an older car or if it's even available with this much negative offset.

[vette427-sbc]

Take the springs out and cycle the suspension and see if it hits... I run less clearance than that on our shop car with a drag radial and you can see where the tire kisses the leaf spring on hard corners (this car is not really a corner carver) A floater rear and stiff sidewall tires will lessen your "un-measureable" wheel/tire movement. Id run it with the 5.75" if it meant no or lesser chance of it running into the fender lip.
Cars lookin' good! :smoke:

[NOT A TA]

The dash panel you made looks terrific. Really like the carbon fiber look. However, I decided to use a really nice engine turned dash bezel I picked up recently. It's in great shape and it looks right in a Pontiac. The only negative is that it's from a later TA and has the radial tuned suspension emblem. I've only done restorations and so I'm used to being a stickler for correctness, but as I make more progress, I'm sure I'll get over it. I think I'll used Speedhut gauges. They should fit well and are customizable so I can try to mimic factory colors. I'll go with GPS speedo with fuel level, tach, battery, oil pressure and engine temp. I think I'll set up the dash panel like an A/C car, with the two holes on the right reserved for vents (I'm going to use Vintage Air). I plan on skipping the vents under the steering wheel and glove box.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/42311086111_ba4f903cc9_z_zps8narqjzk-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/42311086111_ba4f903cc9_z_zps8narqjzk.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/06/27442203907_3b4ed7705e_z_zpsttkmiaic-1.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/jefflepine/media/27442203907_3b4ed7705e_z_zpsttkmiaic.jpg.html)

With respect to brakes, I'd definitely consider manual...would be simpler and less expensive. Just don't know if I would regret it given that the majority of time will be street/highway. What drove your choice?

My wheel of choice right now is 18" Forgeline GA3.

One more thing, why do I need to be very careful about valve stem placement?

Sorry I didn't see this^ a while back.

I went manual brakes because I lost power brakes on track once on the front straight at PBIR and was both feet in full force as soon as I realized "NO BRAKES!". Luckily I got the car slowed enough to only go 2 wheels off but it was a scary moment. Also I can save a few lbs. For a street car not such a big deal as you're not going from full throttle to threshold braking with a corner quickly approaching.

You need to watch valve stem stuff because it's popular to have hidden valve stems now and with big brakes there often isn't enough space between caliper and rim for standard valve stem. I now have 18" Rushforths and Baer 14" rotors. I had to get special super short valve stems.

I didn't look back through this thread to see what rear you're running or if mini tubbed. I had 5.75 backspacing on my old 17 X 11" rear wheels with 315's. Only time I got a very light rub (on the inner fender by the shock) was on track if I hit the corner curbing too hard at high speed on one corner at Sebring and one corner at Road Atlanta. No problems driving on street. I didn't have rolled fender lips and no problem with tire rub on lip (at that ride height) but if I'd gone with 5.5" backspacing I think the 315 35 17's would have rubbed. Pic below with the 315 17's on 17 X11" with 5.75" backspacing and a 10 bolt 2nd gen rear.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2018/11/The14Carinterior481-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior481.jpg.html)

[CastleWorks]

Love the build, I am a huge Pontiac fan. I think you will be fine on the clearance, but as it has been pointed out already, I would cycle the rearend through it's travel and look for any interference.

Looks great!

You also asked early on about what direction to go. I say do what you personally like. I went pretty extreme on my 67 Firebird with flares and other body mods, some like it, some say I destroyed a classic. Build the car you will enjoy.

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[Alponcho]

I saw photos of your '67 in the other thread...very cool ride! I like that it's still Pontiac powered. Is it carousel red?

It's funny you mention that some say you destroyed a classic. Half of my Pontiac friends react the same way about my project--they're into factory correct cars and #'s and so forth. The other half are into drag racing, and although they're not bothered by the modifications, they seem just as confused about what I'm trying to do.

[Alponcho]

Just got word that Forgeline cannot do the one-piece monoblock with the back space I need for the rears. I thought maybe they could do a deep concave to deal with the negative offset, but I guess not.

I will not be ordering a new rear end, so three-piece it is. The bright side is that with fewer choices now, my decision making will be a lot easier.

[Alponcho]

Also, for an 18X12 one piece wheel, they said the min is 7.28". So if my calculations are correct, it looks one would need a rear end and axles at least 60" WMS to WMS.

[CarlC]

As mentioned above, cycling the suspension should help show if fully compressed on one side, fully extended on the other will cause inner rubbing. From a practical standpoint, mine has about 1" inner clearance and will lightly rub when entering a steep driveway sideways, like entering a gas station and going up/over the sidewalk. The uphill wheel compresses, the downhill wheel is in the gutter.

[Alponcho]

Forgeline has a new wheel that, if the right finishes were selected, would look like a Pontiac Rally 2. https://forgeline.com/wheel/jo3c/. It's not one of their most expensive wheels, but I suspect the custom finishing required would add up (probably something like brushed outer hoop, satin gunmetal center with hyper silver center in the raised areas, and custom center cap of course).

My Pontiac buddies here are encouraging me to go in this direction, and part of me thinks this would be cool. But I've always thought retro wheels are tough to pull off without looking a little hokey and would limit the appeal of the car whenever I decide to let it go.

Wondering what this community thinks.

[Alponcho]

I cycled the suspension and adjusted the ride height to get it closer to where I think I'll be. Once I did this I could see where I might get some rubbing on the inside and concluded that 5.5" backspace is the best compromise. Will need to roll the lip on each quarter, but would need to do this even if I went with 5.75".

I also made my wheel decision and placed the order....GA3 with hyper silver hoops and satin graphite centers. I like the matte graphite finish better but I live on a gravel road and matte is tough to clean. I'm so glad to get this decision behind me. Though, I still have to approve the sales order from Forgeline, so technically I have some more time to think about it.

Car looks so much better at this ride height...though now I have to go back and make some adjustments to the tail pipes. Pretty much ready for a visit from the header guy!

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158465

[Alponcho]

I spent some time tweaking the tail pipes so that they fit without making contact with the fuel tank and panhard bar. I will still need to take it to an exhaust shop at the end of the project because it's still too tight in places, but at least I could fit the mufflers and the rest of the exhaust to get an idea of where the headers need to end up.

I noticed that the exhaust will hang about 1.5" below the bottom of the subframe. Do I need to get it up higher? The header guy is really busy right now and not available until the 3rd week of January, so I still have time to make adjustments. I decided to go with mild steel and ceramic coating. From my research, should stay a bit cooler than stainless and a lot less expensive.

We also finished the .25" spacers to get the engine aligned and oil pan off the steering rack.

159040159041159042

[OLDFLM]

You can flatten the spot under the rear seats to get the mufflers up a little higher...

[Alponcho]

No updates this week. Though, I did receive two large boxes from Forgeline yesterday. I'm going to wait to open them until Christmas.

What are folks running for lug nuts? I'm thinking open ended spline, but don't know if that's a good idea.

[Schwartz Performance]

No updates this week. Though, I did receive two large boxes from Forgeline yesterday. I'm going to wait to open them until Christmas.

What are folks running for lug nuts? I'm thinking open ended spline, but don't know if that's a good idea.

Usually we use the Gorilla closed end spline drive with shank. Forgeline sells lug nuts too.

-Dale

[carbuff]

I have used these for a few years with my Forgelines and really like them:

Muteki Lug Nuts (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QHOOE6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I believe it was Steilow who originally suggested them once upon a time...

[Alponcho]

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't specify the type of lug nut seat in my order, is the cone/taper shape Forgeline's default or do they use ball/spherical?

[Alponcho]

I'm pretty happy with how the wheels turned out. The satin graphite centers look a little darker in photos than they do in person. I had Forgeline paint the embossed logo on the center cap to add a subtle contrasting element. I wanted to do something custom, but couldn't decide and concluded my $$ was better spent elsewhere. Was going to have the tires mounted...I can't wait to see what they look like on the car...but I guess I should wait for brakes so I can check to make sure everything clears. I don't expect any problems, but I would hate to pay to have the tires mounted and then dismounted if I have to send the wheels back to get rebuilt.

159796

Header guy is coming to build my headers on Jan 10. Apparently he does custom exhaust too, so I'm hopeful he'll be able to do something with the tailpipes.

Between now and then, my '67 GTO will be getting some love. I need to get the windows aligned better, replace the 4x10" dash speaker, deal with hard brake issue, install new mufflers to quite a drone, and possibly replace the noisy HR lifters.

[Alponcho]

Header guy did a great job today. Plenty of clearance all the way around. Easy access to the header bolts. He also was able to tuck them up pretty high...higher than the bottom of the bell. He told me he could definitely address the issues with the exhaust, so I'll bring it to him after everything else is wrapped up...hopefully late summer early fall.

We're going to haul the car to the chassis shop in the next week or so, and after that it goes back to Randy to finish body and paint.


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[Alponcho]

Got the car ready to haul to the chassis shop next week. I'll have him tack in the tunnel hump so that I can remove the engine and transmission before the car goes to the body/paint shop. What size hole should I have him cut for the shifter?

I'll also have the cross bar and a couple triangulating pieces installed. One area I'm fairly certain about will be short pieces that connect the vertical section of the roll bar to the subframe connector behind the front seat. I'm less certain about whether to have some low door bars installed. They'll help keep things stiff and I'd have them done low enough so that they won't interfere with me getting into or out of the car, but not great aesthetically and I'm sure will create headaches when it comes time to do the interior. Thoughts?

Also wondering if we missed something when we installed the Quadralink spring pocket brackets, since the nut for the lower link is not accessible through hole the frame rail. Easy enough to make the hole bigger, but it seems odd it's so far off, which made me wonder if we goofed somehow. Has anyone else run into this?

160797160798

[Alponcho]

It’s been raining here on and off so we haven’t made it to the chassis shop yet. Had lunch with my body and paint buddy. We mapped out a plan to move forward so he could be finished by the summer. I think the timeline is very ambitious. I’ll be ordering brakes tomorrow, 14” Baer 6p fronts, 13” SS4+ rears. This way I can install them along with the wheels and tires so that any issues can be taken care of before the car is in paint. It’s going to be an expensive 6 months.

[Alponcho]

It's been a busy couple weeks at work and with family, so not much progress on the car. Our son is really into soccer and he's had tournaments the last several weekends, two of which require out of town stays. This weekend's tournament is in town, but we are hosting three players from a team visiting from Japan. The things we do for out kids! Anyways, next week life should get back to normal. I received the brakes so I'll install them to make sure they'll work with the wheels. Hopefully we make it to the chassis shop too. Randy told me he'll be ready to take the car back on May 1 to finish the body and paint.

[CSG]

It's been a busy couple weeks at work and with family, so not much progress on the car. Our son is really into soccer and he's had tournaments the last several weekends, two of which require out of town stays. This weekend's tournament is in town, but we are hosting three players from a team visiting from Japan. The things we do for out kids! Anyways, next week life should get back to normal. I received the brakes so I'll install them to make sure they'll work with the wheels. Hopefully we make it to the chassis shop too. Randy told me he'll be ready to take the car back on May 1 to finish the body and paint.

Man do I understand, it's baseball and UTV racing for mine. If i'm not at a tournament or a race then I'm probably fixing what he broke at the last race, then work on my car.

[Alponcho]

Just got the car back from the chassis shop. We decided against the door bars I had in mind. The chassis guy felt that the benefit of the bars we designed (down from the main hoop then angled sharply low to the floor, below the entire seat bolster) wouldn't be worth it. He felt the triangulating pieces from the hoop to the subframe connectors behind the seats would add enough stiffness given how I plan to use the car. I'm kind of relieved...was worried about them being in the way and the interior will look a lot cleaner now. I kept the harness bar removable.
163184

I threw on the brakes quickly to check for clearance with the wheels. No issues. Next step is to mount tires on the wheels and install on the car. Body and paint guy said he'll be ready for her in May. At that point, we'll hang the front clip and deal with any tire clearance issues before she's painted.

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163186

[Alponcho]

Had the tires mounted today. Mobile installer 2Utire, did a great job. Car is back at home. Just waiting for a spot to open up at Randy's for paint.

I feel like I should be doing something to move things forward, but not sure what to make progress on next...

163359

[Alponcho]

Still waiting for a spot to open up in shop for paint. In the meantime I messed around with a few things.

First, I removed the rear springs to see where the suspension would bottom out and found that I still have about .5" between the tire and lips. I think this should give me enough clearance even if I flatten the bump stop, so I should not have to trim or roll the lips any. Relative to a Camaro, the wheel opening is more rounded and so there's a bit more space available. I have plenty of clearance on the inside as well.

164340

164341

Second, I figured out that the motor mounts work without spacers after all. The problem was that the transmission was hung up on small section of the floor in an area that was difficult to see. I'm happy about this, but now I see that the transmission is not quite centered in the tunnel. Don't know if this is a normal or will create a problem?

164342

[72blackbird]

Mind blowing build- make me want to pour a few gallons on gas on my 72 and set it on fire (j.k. I love my Bird, as humble and simple as it is).

Geno

[Alponcho]

I started thinking more about how much space there would need to be, given the current set-up, between the tires and lips at ride height to give me sufficient downward travel in the suspension. I would end up with slightly more of a gap at the tops of the wheel openings as compared to the sides. I played around a bit, and found that the car looks much better with less of a gap at the tops of the wheel openings as compared to the sides. So I ended up ordering the shorter shocks that now come with the Firebird specific Quadralink kit. I bought my kit from DSE years ago when there was just a generic 2nd gen kit developed with the Camaro in mind, so there was no accounting for the higher/rounded wheel opening of the Firebird. The shocks are pretty expensive and the lips will need work now, but a slightly lower ride height should look better.

[Alponcho]

Received the Firebird shocks. The body is .5" shorter than the Camaro ones. I installed them without the springs, and with the suspension fully bottomed out, I still have a sliver of space between the tires and lips. That was an expensive half-inch! If anyone needs coilovers for a Camaro, I know where you can get a good deal :)

164587

164588

[syborg tt]

Car looks fantastic and I am happy to see that you are still working on it.

Now that you lowered you may want to consider doing the outer wheel house mod when you roll the quarters. If you ever decide to run a taller tire this is the next spot that rubs.

165290

165291

[Alponcho]

I'm starting to think about interior. I'm torn between going with factory Sandalwood color (as in the photo) or black. The plan is to buy Recaro Specialist seats in cloth and have them recovered in leather in a factory appearing pattern. I think this would look good with the factory door panels, dash, etc. I know I mentioned this previously, but the exterior will be Carousel Red (Hugger Orange), the car’s original color. Thoughts about an interior color like this in a pro-touring car?

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/07/21/IMG_8875.jpg

[T/A Addict]

I say hell yea!! That color would be awesome!

[Alponcho]

Here's a photo of a Carousel Red over Sandalwood Formula I found on the web.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/07/22/1970-pontiac-firebird-formula-400.jpg

Part of me also thinks it would be cool to forego the TA engine turned dash bezel I had planned in favor of the original woodgrain one.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/07/22/1970-pontiac-firebird-formula-400-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

I like it.


Here's a photo of a Carousel Red over Sandalwood Formula I found on the web.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/07/22/1970-pontiac-firebird-formula-400.jpg

Part of me also thinks it would be cool to forego the TA engine turned dash bezel I had planned in favor of the original woodgrain one.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/07/22/1970-pontiac-firebird-formula-400-1.jpg

[c4racer2]

meh. I would go black personally - as much as black is sometimes overdone. I think it's a better contrast to hugger orange.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I would say I like the tan interior and the wood grain.

[NOT A TA]

There's several different colors in a Sandalwood interior. If you go with wood grain dash I think the early light color wood grain looks best with Sandalwood.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/car%20stuff%20to%20sell/20161028_154623_zps513e9tp7.jpg.html)

[Alponcho]

Randy, my paint and body guy, can't take the Formula until he finishes the car he's doing for MCACN, which is at the end of November. To move things along a little quicker, next week the car will be moving to another shop for a bunch of things needed before paint...transmission tunnel, fuel tank access hatch, firewall filler, Brake/Clutch MC bracket, AC mock up, fuel and brake lines. This way Randy can hit the ground running when he gets the car in early Dec.

Quick question: I'm wondering if anyone has a good photo of an early 2nd gen firewall that's finished? I know there are a lot of variables, but it would be helpful to identify which holes to fill/what to smooth out, and let me see if I'm forgetting anything.

[Alponcho]

Hauled the car to the shop for remaining fab work. Looking for input on a couple things.

First, although the original plan was to keep the rear seat for aesthetics, I'm thinking about doing away with it so I can lift the floor in that area so that the mufflers can be tucked in a bit higher. Any reason I may regret doing this?

Second, wondering if anyone has used the mini-tup trunk close outs that DSE sells, and if so, did they create significantly more clearance for the exhaust?

[Alponcho]

Decided not to make the changes I was contemplating in my previous post. I have to keep on reminding myself not to get carried away with this project with respect to costs and changes that are unnecessary given what I set out to do. Not looking to build an all out race car or something that imitates a custom from a specialized high-end shop.

The vibe I'm going for is sort of a day-2 '70 Formula but with contemporary modifications...rather slapping on Cragars, traction bars and a Sun Super tach on a new car in '70, I'm going with Forgelines and Quadralink and Speedhut on that same new car, but 50 years later. I'll be updating a lot for sure, but at the same time, I'll try to stick with finishes and make choices that maintain this sensibility.

[4mul8ion]

...

Quick question: I'm wondering if anyone has a good photo of an early 2nd gen firewall that's finished? I know there are a lot of variables, but it would be helpful to identify which holes to fill/what to smooth out, and let me see if I'm forgetting anything.

Hope these pics help. These were from when the body shop stripped and etched my 1970 Formula.
169037169038

[Alponcho]

The sheetmetal guy did a nice job on the transmission tunnel, which he made from scratch. He needs to enlarge/clean-up the shifter access hatch and fab up the cover, but it should turn out nice.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/11/28/IMG_9345D.jpg

Also installing the fuel module access hatch in the trunk. I'd like to move it forward a bit so that there's easier access to the lines and module, but that will require a bit more work since it's pushed right up against the rise. It's positioned in the photo where I think it should go. How have others installed this piece?

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/11/28/IMG_9347D.jpg

[andrewb70]

Good idea with the fuel module access.

Andrew

[1965gp]

This is a great build. Going to be an amazing car when it’s done.

Carousel Red / Sandalwood is the original color combo I was going to go with on my 72. I love that color combination. I ended up going Buccaneer Red/ Sandalwood because I went with a 73 Trans Am look.

[Alponcho]

Colin finished up the fab work I asked him to do, but Randy wasn't able to complete the Cyclone in time, and so at this point it looks like he won't be ready to take my car until mid January. Disappointing, but it will be worth the wait. Colin had another project on his schedule and needed the space in his shop, so I hauled the bird back back to her nest and will make some headway on some other areas.

Ben at Street Rod Designs did a rendering of the car. He's a great guy, super easy to work with, and I'm very happy with the art. I honestly thought I would see the rendering and want to tweak a few things, but it's exactly what I envisioned.

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2019/12/15/Jeff-70-Firebird-Web-Forum-Large.jpg

[Alponcho]

Still waiting for my spot to open up in the paint shop. Rather than being disappointed that the car is taking a lot longer than I planned, I bought something to hold me over...an '18 ZL1 (10 speed auto, PDR, etc). What a fantastic car. Part of me is now wondering why I'm building the Formula. The other part of me is even more excited about finishing the Formula so I can see how it compares. I suspect the poncho will be a real handful in comparison--more torque, about 500 lbs lighter, no traction control, etc. Here's a photo of my son removing the front license plate mount. He's a much bigger fan of the Z than any of my older cars, in fact, he's already given me a list of mods I "need" to do...

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2020/02/25/IMG_9844-1.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/HtHPR)

[gscherer78ta]

Fantastic car! And I love the ZL1 too!

[dcozzi]

Just got the car back from the chassis shop. We decided against the door bars I had in mind. The chassis guy felt that the benefit of the bars we designed (down from the main hoop then angled sharply low to the floor, below the entire seat bolster) wouldn't be worth it.

Good call. I did an 8 point on my '70 Camaro and the door bars have issues clearing the seat bolsters unless the seats are slid all the way back. If you have sub-frame connectors, you will probably be fine.

[Alponcho]

I just got word that Randy is ready to paint the Formula. I am so happy. I plan to haul it over to his shop early next week. Once the car's there, we'll start on the engine. The basic plan remains the same, albeit I now have a lightened forged crank (still 4.5"), and will go with a slightly smaller bore so I can get an additional refresh out of it someday. Also, rather than Speedhut gauges, thinking about Dakota Digital RTX.

[7T400Formula]

Really enjoying this thread. I still have a lot of indecision around my own 70 Formula project, including whether to ditch the TH400 for a TMX manual, so it's good to see the thinking going into this one

[Alponcho]

Most folks seem to use a bed liner product underneath the car, fender wells, and even the trunk sometimes. Is the purpose simply durability, or are there other benefits (road noise, heat, less expensive, less preparation, etc.)?

[Alponcho]

More progress on the body. Now I need to start making decisions on little things.

The goal is to maintain the factory vibe throughout, just a little cleaner. So I'm considering welding up all the extra holes on the core support and inner fenders to clean things up. Anything I should consider or do now to make it easier to run everything under the fender (rather than attached to the top of the inner fender)? I'll be running the battery in the trunk.

187464

[OLDFLM]

FWIW I shaved the side marker lights and filled the emblem holes in the fender on my car...

[Alponcho]

What are you all doing about splash aprons? Is there anything available other than the factory type material?

Still deciding which holes to weld up on the core support and inner fenders.

187631

[Alponcho]

Ordered Recaro seats today (expert M). I bought them in cloth and will have them recovered in Sandalwood vinyl from Legendary so that they evoke the original ‘70 deluxe interior with comfortweave inserts. The upholstery shop will do the back seats and door panels as well so everything matches.

[1965gp]

Excited to see this come together!

[Alponcho]

Been working out a lot of small details to maintain factory vibe. I think I mentioned I'm going with born-with colors (Carousel Red-Sandalwood)...

Rob at Fesler has been super helpful with the interior...'70 Sandalwood is a real challenge. He lined up an upholsterer to build door panels, and make seat covers for the Recaro fronts and modified rears (to accommodate the mini tubs)...I'm going to stick with the factory pattern, colors and materials for the most part. My plan was to have Legendary do the door panels, but not willing to wait 40 weeks! I changed my seat order to Specialist M...I just think they'll look more at home in a 2nd gen than the Experts. Other than the Recaros up front and the roll bar (which will be painted light Sandalwood), here's what the interior will look like.

188828

The car is now about half painted. Still a long way to go with the sanding, buffing and polishing, but it's nice to see some color!
188826
188827

[7T400Formula]

Great colour (excuse the spelling I'm English LOL). Really enjoying the build, it's keeping me inspired for my own 70 Formula build, which I'll get to as soon as I get my C15 truck running right!

[TANKMASTERJ]

OMG
Love the car love the color

[Alponcho]

She's mostly painted now. Hopefully backordered/delayed parts make it here over the next few weeks, this way we're ready to roll by the time sanding's done.

Need to order wiring today...I haven't given this much thought...would the AAW Classic Update kit be my best bet?


189371

[OLDFLM]

Call Don Bock at AAW... he has an exact replacement harness for our cars!

[Alponcho]

Given the long lead times on things, need to think about seat belts....not a fan of the factory set-up. Weighing something like Morris Classic 3-point versus Schroth Profi II ASW FE. What should I consider in my decision making on this?

[cpd004]

I went with Morris. Needed a different floor bracket due to contacting the Recaro seat but overall good stuff. The 'lock' is very sensitive when just trying to put the belt on. One thing I don't care for is that the receptacle is one size fits all. It is rather long.

[OLDFLM]

I also have the Morris 3-point and got their matching rear 2-point belts for the back seats and love them! They bolt into all existing factory holes and are black powder coated stainless so they'll never rust.

I've often thought of mounting the reels behind the rear seat side panels and have the belt come out through where the rear seat ash trays are or would be... would be a nice way to hide the reels but have just never gotten around to it.

Others have welded in boxes to their rear package tray for the reels to mount into in order to run their 3-point belts in the back seats as well... just a thought.

[Alponcho]

Finished with the paint and polishing. Starting reassembly. Just fit the modified rear armrest panels and seat frames. Ready for upholstery. Engine should be done by Christmas. 194358194359

[manicmechanic]

Looks good, where did you source the seat frames and side panels?

[Alponcho]

Looks good, where did you source the seat frames and side panels?

I modified the original factory seat frames and rear armrest panels in my garage shop. Neither are available aftermarket, unfortunately. There's not a ton of direction on-line either, but easy to figure out. Just time consuming (especially the armrest panels). My 17 y/o son helped out with the seat frames. He taught himself to weld during the covid lockdown, so he was able to piece the frame back together after the necessary mods. I took pics of the process for both if anyone is interested.

[syborg tt]

I am really looking forward to more pictures. As This car is going to be beautiful when it’s done.

[Hemi8]

Ofcoarse you just have to use RA5 heads and a solid roller cam:
https://www.dcimotorsports.com/products/dci-ram-air-five-parts/ram-air-five-heads/

Mike

[Alponcho]

Ofcoarse you just have to use RA5 heads and a solid roller cam:
https://www.dcimotorsports.com/products/dci-ram-air-five-parts/ram-air-five-heads/

Mike

Yeah, that would be nice! Thought about those heads, but came to the conclusion it would be impossible/impractical to fit the intake I would need under the Formula hood.

[Alponcho]

More progress. Seats turned out nice...going to have the upholsterer look at the rear armrest panel. They turned out OK with the texturing I used, but I'm not sure they're nice enough for this car.

Need to replace the trunk weatherstrip. It's NOS but won't compress nearly enough. I guess I'll try the Metro offering, unless someone has a better recommendation?

194896
194897

[Alponcho]

Haven't posted updates in a while, but things are moving along. Aluminum 535 in place with factory style accessories. I'm hoping this set-up works well enough. Next up is wiring and fuel, brake, and other misc. lines. Haven't given much thought to AN lines I'll need to make, but the time is here. Never done this before, and not sure what the best options are with regard to brand of lines/fittings, etc.

198287
198288

[Toccoa]

What type of paint did you use? Is it single stage? It looks amazing!

[Alponcho]

Thanks. Its base-clear. I was shocked by how much a gallon of the base cost (over 1k, and I needed 2) but very happy with how pure the color appears. Of course, many hours of sanding and buffing as well.

[andrewb70]

Red is the most expensive color. Mine cost $500 per gallon, twenty years ago!

Andrew

[Alponcho]

I've had the car home for a couple weeks. Been concentrating on wiring and plumbing and all the little details. The original plan was to hide things like the ignition box, ECU, Vaporworx controller, etc., in the interior under the dash, but I'm prioritizing easy access to diagnose issues, make repairs, move things around, so a lot of that stuff is ending up on the firewall. I'm keeping the battery up front...may try a light lithium-ion deal.

199767

199768

[manicmechanic]

Looks Great Al!

[Alponcho]

Time for an update, and looking for some input on issues I'm having.

I was hoping to have the car ready for Goodguys here next week, but not gonna happen because of issues with EZ EFI 2.0. The car starts up and seems to run fine, but I can't make it through the system set-up without getting a lost com message, after which the ECU resets. I was also getting random errors every now and then, but nothing consistent. After moving the ECU around, rewiring, etc., FAST asked me to send the ECU back so they could check it out...I sent back the harness and throttle body as well just in case, but I was told they're short handed and may take them a few weeks to get to it.

I've lost a little faith in FAST so considering other TB type FI options that will work with my current intake (single plane HSD copy, 4150), fuel system (returnless with ZL1 module and Vaporworx controller) and power level (around 650hp). I looked at Holley's offerings (sniper and terminator) but not sure how they play with the Vaporworx controller--the Holley instructions say a return is mandatory and I don't see a wire specifically dedicated to trigger the fuel pump through the Vaporworx controller. I'm especially concerned about this integration because the FAST folks I talked to wanted to blame the Vaporworx stuff for the problems I was having.

Suggestions?

[anguilla1980]

I have a Vaporworx PWM and I'm running the Holley Terminator Stealth (I stay FAR away from "Sniper" anything as it's sub-par and there are many issues having the ECU on the TB like that). I have my fuel system wired separately from the Holley so I can do updates/tuning on the Holley without the FP priming/running. I actually have a multi-button PDM and have it programmed so if I push a certain button then others cascade turn on so it's like a normal car, but having each function to a separate button helps to give me full control of individual things when I want, which is often, but that's another story. The point is my Vaporworx setup is independent thru that and not controlled by the Holley although one of my 2 fuel pressure sensors feeds into the Holley. You could do it through the Holley if you want tho, with the Holley you can program an output to do literally anything. Hell, the Holley ECUs (HP and Dominator) even can do PWM fuel pump control but I'd rather have Carl's setup personally.

With Carl's PWM controller, it doesn't matter what Holley says about a fuel return, so you can ignore that. The system will work the way Carl designed it and the Holley won't know the difference. I do suggest that in addition to the FP sensor Carl has you put near the tank for his PWM, put another up by the fuel rail so you know the REAL fuel pressure where it matters. That's the 2nd one I have going into my Holley for data.

That's the short of it haha, I'm not even done with my fu*kin coffee yet so hopefully that made sense.

Here is a link to a video I did a while back showing all of my Holley EFI stuff, my channel is private: https://youtu.be/RTInAJLJPmI

At about 14mins in I mention the Varporworx PWM but don't go into much detail. I have since upgraded to another fuel setup and had Carl do a custom PWM controller for me, I went from the ZL1 setup to a proper 6x9 dual fuel pump module with a surge tank so everything is fully integrated. The new setup DOES have a return by design because of how the surge tank works and that's why it had to be a custom design by Carl, but that's also another story.

[Olds.PhD]

I am of no help for your particular issue, but just wanted to say that's a gorgeous car. Love sticking with the Pontiac motor. The stance and wheels look great. Well done all around.

[gto406]

Agree with “Dr. Olds” - the car will be that much sweeter with BOP power and sound.

Car is coming together nicely! [emoji4][emoji106]

[slazisme]

Time for an update, and looking for some input on issues I'm having.

I was hoping to have the car ready for Goodguys here next week, but not gonna happen because of issues with EZ EFI 2.0. The car starts up and seems to run fine, but I can't make it through the system set-up without getting a lost com message, after which the ECU resets. I was also getting random errors every now and then, but nothing consistent. After moving the ECU around, rewiring, etc., FAST asked me to send the ECU back so they could check it out...I sent back the harness and throttle body as well just in case, but I was told they're short handed and may take them a few weeks to get to it.

I've lost a little faith in FAST so considering other TB type FI options that will work with my current intake (single plane HSD copy, 4150), fuel system (returnless with ZL1 module and Vaporworx controller) and power level (around 650hp). I looked at Holley's offerings (sniper and terminator) but not sure how they play with the Vaporworx controller--the Holley instructions say a return is mandatory and I don't see a wire specifically dedicated to trigger the fuel pump through the Vaporworx controller. I'm especially concerned about this integration because the FAST folks I talked to wanted to blame the Vaporworx stuff for the problems I was having.

Suggestions?

Hopefully your issues can get ironed out but if they don't and you need some help with the tune or getting things figured out, my tuner buddy who is familiar with Fast and Terminator can possibly help out. I ended up using Fitech that I picked up back in 2017 for my LS conversion and he got my car running great! I talked to him and mentioned your situation and he said it was okay to pass along his contact info. So if you need some help I can set you up with him. Send me a PM if you're interested, here's a excerpt from his Facebook page, he's got a crazy powered Grand National. Simon.
Intro
25 years of fast classic fast, xfi and general GN tuning experience! field technician by trade.

[Alponcho]

The EFI system should be back to me tomorrow. FAST said the ECU, throttle body, and wiring harness checked out fine. I'm really tempted to go with another system, but I guess I'll reinstall and try to eliminate as many possible problems as possible. Though not sure how much further I can go without throwing money at parts (e.g., ignition box, distributor, coil, alt, plug wires, etc.).

[4mul8ion]

I'm running the FAST Sportsman EFI in a multiport injector setup on my 505. I'm using the FAST E6 CDI box through their coil and Dual Sync distributor. Runs great. Can their Sportsman EFI run your TB without having to replace everything?

I thought that for the Vaporworx on FAST efi setups the PWM is switching the ground vs the +12V for Holley EFI systems.

[eversaul86]

Nice car! Love the progress. This thing is sweet!
Martin

[Alponcho]

Well, I spent yesterday rerouting wires, removing non-essential electrical parts, and hooking the system back up. Unfortunately, the instant I powered up the fuel pump to check for leaks, fuel poured/sprayed out the LH side of the throttle body. What a mess. Folks at FAST must have forgotten to do something inside the unit when they were testing it.

[ttrimgto]

if you want to discuss Holley efi for your pontiac can you send me an email or private message thru the forum? Are you in the Cave Creek area?

Thanks and I apologize for disrupting your thread.

[andrewb70]

if you want to discuss Holley efi for your pontiac can you send me an email or private message thru the forum? Are you in the Cave Creek area?

Thanks and I apologize for disrupting your thread.

I tune Holley EFI systems for a living. I'd be happy to chat. Send me a PM

Andrew

[CarlC]

I'm running the FAST Sportsman EFI in a multiport injector setup on my 505. I'm using the FAST E6 CDI box through their coil and Dual Sync distributor. Runs great. Can their Sportsman EFI run your TB without having to replace everything?

I thought that for the Vaporworx on FAST efi setups the PWM is switching the ground vs the +12V for Holley EFI systems.

Most all EFI systems use a 12v+ signal to turn on an external control (relay, FSCM, etc.) Hence, the standard trigger for VaporWorx controllers is 12v+.

FAST is the oddball with a pull-to-ground. VaporWorx can supply this option at no charge, I just need to know that either with a phone call or put into the Notes section when ordering online.

The other option is to use the 12v+ output from the FAST fuel pump relay output. This harness add-on is kinda spendy, and adds no useful function vs. having the controller set for pull-to-ground.

It is strongly recommended to always use the ECM trigger for fuel pump enable. It has priming and safety features built in that will turn off the fuel pump enable circuit if engine rotation is not sensed. If an IGN signal is use fuel will pump uncontrolled in an accident which could lead to a variety of very bad things.

[Alponcho]

Well, after 10 years, the car is pretty much complete now. I've driven it about 100 miles or so without issue. Everything works, it stays cool, A/C blows cold, no leaks or electrical gremlins, etc. It's quick and handles great. I was expecting a jarring ride, but it's actually no worse than some modern performance cars. It is a little raw--engine idles with some attitude and is loud, some gear whine above 70mph or so--but nothing obnoxious. The only things left to do is bring her in for an alignment, check fasteners, etc.

I ended up spending about twice as much money on it than I originally planned. I went overboard on a few things, and I underestimated how much I would need to spend to maintain the factory Pontiac vibe. There are a few things I would have changed if I had to do it all again, but as they say, hindsight is 20-20. Overall, I'm happy with the outcome.

207844207845207846207843

[stevehoj]

Thumbs up!

[OLDFLM]

LOVE the car! Love the seats and the whole execution!

Would love to hear the list of what you'd do differently too...

[thumper877]

Beautiful car. Love the look without the rear spoiler. The painted roll bar looks great too

[NCSU68]

Congratulations! An amazing car!

[Josh@Ridetech]

I love it. Very nice build! Enjoy it now :cheers:.

[Alponcho]

Thanks for the compliments!




Would love to hear the list of what you'd do differently too...

Here are a few things that come to mind:
1) The car would have turned out the same if I started with a less expensive base/automatic Firebird shell rather than a running and relatively complete 4-speed Formula 400.
2) I should have taken more time to consider ripple effects and associated expenses and complications when planning what would go into the build. As one example, the DSE subframe is beautiful and the car handles great, but with the Pontiac engine set back 1.5", I had to have custom headers built, modify the oil pan, and few other things...nothing major, but it adds up. If I would have better anticipated these types of things, I might have made changes to keep costs down.
3) Should not have purchased parts so far in advance. Parts costs have certainly increased over the last 10 years, But any savings were more than offset by having to purchase updated parts, parts I misplaced, or replacements for parts that ended up not working out for one reason or another.
4) Should have spent more time mocking things up prior to painting and finishing parts. If I would have done this, I could have tucked the exhaust up a little more, hid more under the dash, etc.
5) I plan to drive the car a lot...and I'm not a car show type of guy, so I probably overdid it on the body and paint and NOS parts.
6) Should have sold/disposed of parts I wasn't going to use during the build rather than holding on to them. I now have a boxes and boxes of stuff from this build (and a couple restorations and another ongoing project) to get rid of and it's a little overwhelming.

[Alponcho]

Just finishing up my son's '79 Trans Am Y84. The build was a little different than my '70--LS (stroked LQ4), TKX, Ridetech, Wilwood--but it turned out great. After the engine bay photo was taken, we replaced the long tubes from Hooker with a set from Ultimate Headers and gained about .75" of ground clearance. Only things left are polish and buff, install SE decals, & another remote tuning session with Andrew.

So now that I have more time, I'll be making a couple changes on the Formula. First, I need more ground clearance...especially on the driver's side where the V band is ground down quite a bit. I'm having local guy a build some mid-length Tri-Y headers that will follow closer to the floor and not extend much below the subframe. We'll be redoing the exhaust to get it up higher as well. Second, I'll be replacing the center section with a FN988 from DSE (8.8" gears in a 9" case). The 9" in the car now howls some at highway speed which I find fatiguing on long drives. My son's 9" is a lot quieter, but not as quiet as I heard these DSE deals are. I may go with 3.73 this time.

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[Alponcho]

The tri-y's turned out good. Lots more ground clearances. They install easily from the bottom of the car and plenty of room for the steering shaft, oil filter & starter. I'm going to get them Cerakoted. Making progress on the exhaust. Have to redo the fuel line to the throttle body, clutch MC line, and park brake cables. But the added ground clearance should be worth it. 218665218666218667218668

[Pontula]

Beautiful car! I’m close to getting started on a 72 formula. Sundance orange with black interior and I have the same idea of keeping a very original look (especially interior with exception of 4 point roll cage). I’m looking at doing a Kauffman 535 ci crate motor.

Did you end up going with the Tomahawk intake? If so have you gotten it on the dyno yet?

[ryeguy2006a]

Love this car! Gaining ground clearance is always a huge win.