Always needing a slight adjustment towards toe in?

[pitts64]

Hello,

I have a 64 Pontiac with rear steer and new Firestone LE-2 235/70r15 tires...

In order to keep that nice tight nimble feeling, it seems to always need the slightest tweak towards toe in.. I adjust one tie rod at a time the slightest amount possible...

The linkage is in excellent shape, new Lee 12 to 1 box, KRC Nylon lower control arm bushings with like new stock 1962 solid uppers...

Thoughts?



Thank you,
Jeff

[Rucumn]

Have you made sure your tie rod adjustment sleeves are locked down tight? Use a grease pen to make a reference mark so the next time you know that they didn't move.

[David Pozzi]

Are you actually measuring toe with wheels on a turntable?

[pitts64]

No turntables but I'm buying a pair..

I think I just learned another lesson, toe has an effect on drift/pull... Back in 1964, toe could be measured with a trammel with the skinny 1964 factory tires but not with todays sticky 7"+ wide tires..

I decided to start going to toe out this weekend, first measuring with a trammel then by feel, tweeking the sleeves the least amount as possible.. I had too much toe in.. Now I can feel the car coast faster and I'm getting faster wheel return and more steady straightaway, one finger on the wheel at 100. The difference around turns is amazing.. I'm thinking my car will like close to zero toe being I have nyloner lowers and solid factory uppers, no rubber.. I've read where some like a little toe out but I'm thinking that's with front steer, I have rear steer..

I have a lot to learn but enjoying the lesson in my old age...

Thanks..

[David Pozzi]

I have Longacre turntables with circle track aluminum toe plates. You might get by with stacked sheets of wax paper with lube between them, or a thick square of steel and lay pieces of 1/2" rod or pipe between it and the floor. I did the wax paper thing long ago but don't recall how well it worked. Freeing up the tires to move in and out is critical to making any measurements. I've tried not using turntables and the results were all over the place. Harbor Freight has some turntables, not sure how good they are. If you get into setting caster, you will need/want turntables with angle graduations.

The first thing I'd measure once you have the equipment is bounce the front end a couple of times by hand, then take a toe reading, then open the hood, put some padding down and stack some weight on the radiator core support/fender area. Sacks of dog food, old flywheels or cyl heads, large friends, etc. Put enough weight on to drop the front and inch or two then measure toe again. Camaros will toe-out a bunch, so I set a good amount of toe-in static, 1/8" to 3/16" total, even more with new springs which will settle. See what yours does and it will help you know what to do.

[pitts64]

My front suspension is very similar to the first gen... Thanks!

[Ron Sutton]

I agree with David on the Turn Tables. But if you need to do this without buying a set, the excellent low-buck way is what we call "Grease Plates." Simply cut up four 12" x 12" sheets of aluminum or steel sheet metal. Because we often had .040" aluminum in the shop, that is what we used.

Keep them clean & put an even layer/film of grease on one side & put 2 plates together. You now have a "Grease Plate." They feel a little stiff to move in your hands but the weight of the car will move them EASILY. This is a simple way to insure when you make a toe change ... it actually shows. Without turn tables or grease plates, the rubber tires are "bound up" on the floor & you will get inaccurate toe readings & chase your tail.

If you're ever in a pinch & don't have either ... you need to roll the car back several feet then & forward after every adjustment ... and then measure the toe.

Best wishes.

[pitts64]

Just wanted to update...

The Rare Suspension center link was shot! The joint next to the Pittman arm had over 1/2" of play! The bottom cap was moving with the joint.. I didn't see this until I had someone move the steering wheel checking the rag joint.. Rare Suspension joints have some kind of plastic in them.. The joint would tighten up in hot weather and loosen up when cool...

I'm waiting for the Moog replacement now... I hope this works, I really like this car but the poor handling ruins it for me.....

[CTSV]

Guys im about to do some experiments with my toe in and toe out using turn tables and other good gear.

Now i got my front wheels spot on in line with my rears and my steering wheel is offset to the passenger side. My Sparco wheel has a center stripe which helps things alot.

With toe plates what should i do and what order to first fix my crooked steering wheel and then get the car to zero toe as a baseline. I then want to try toe out maybe 1/16 and then toe i. 1/16.

now using toe plates do you toe each wheel or divide the two and get total toe?

Not sure how to approach the toe adjustments and which order to do this so any tips would be great